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View Full Version : The truth about Ben must be told



NYPDSTEEL
12-11-2009, 12:54 PM
First off i am in no way laying this at the feet of Ben. The coaching was subpar from Tomin on down. We all know BA should go and the one bright spot is that more then likely that will happen. But from the Qb standpoint, i believe that because Ben has had so much success so early in his career it is difficult to coach him. He needs a strong coach to tell him that he needs to get better. Is that Tomin i don't know yet. If Bill Parcells was the coach he could get Ben to improve even after winning two superbowls. Someone has got to challange him to be a student of the game like Manning and Brady. Those two are students of the game, and don't just rely on their gifts. Ben and Tone who could very well be together for another 6-8 years should have developed an uncanny chemistry. Manning had it with Harrison and now with Wayne. Brady with Moss and Welker. I know what you are going to say those Wr's are unbelieveable talents. True but film study and hours and hours of reps can make a world of difference. There has got to be a trust and cohesiveness between Qb and Wr so that they see the same things on the field. They each rely on there natural gifts instead of the hard work that it takes (film study and reps) ala Manning and Wayne. It is well documented the time those two put in together. I heard an interview recently with Reggie Wayne and he said that he and Manning see the same things on the field and make the RIGHT adjustments 99% of the time. He said they are rarely not on the same page.

This schoolyard football Ben plays, the improvising and escapeability it's great but it is hit or miss. Last year we hit all the way to the superbowl. This year we miss to a miserable season. To me it starts with Ben challenging himself to be a "COMPLETE" quarterback. If he puts in the hard work and develops the mental part of the game to go along with his natural talents then he could be mentioned among the greats. If he continues the staus quo he will remain a notch below.

NW Steeler
12-11-2009, 12:59 PM
:Agree

Oh no, wait :Hater

NorthCoast
12-11-2009, 01:36 PM
I agree to a point. Ben is either stubborn, reluctant, unwilling, or unable to adjust his game based on what is going on with the opponents defense. There were a whole lot of checkdown options he just ignored last night. The few times he took them they were decent gains. He just has that mentality that he needs the big play on every play...defenses have figured this out about him and now he is struggling to defeat it.

I saw no counters to the man coverage. Why not run the secondary off downfield with the receivers and throw underneath all night?
Ben played a poor game.

NWNewell
12-11-2009, 04:55 PM
I agree that Ben does not need a friend, he needs a coach. BA is not a good coach.... I don't think he's a good OC either.

His early success probably has hindered his learning curve. Getting a little lucky and receiving positive re-enforcement if poor performance can trick you into thinking you are doing better than actually are. Not saying his performance as a hole is poor. I think quite the contrary. But it can re-enforce some bad habits and that could be preventing him from becoming an elite QB.

I love Ben's effort and attempts to make something out of nothing. I don't disagree that it should be "a great back-up plan" instead the only plan.

But at the same time, I'm tired of hearing people say "he should be more like Brady or Manning". Ben is Ben (that doesn't me he shouldn't improve on his reads, checkdowns, and getting the ball out), but he shouldn't play the game or practice like Brady and Manning. What he needs is a good coach that gets him practicing and studying the way the best suits him.

Having said that, I totally agree that I don't think it is BA.

steelblood
12-11-2009, 05:03 PM
The chemistry between some receivers and their QB allows them to complete passes even when well covered. Our QB and receivers really don't have that chemistry yet.

grotonsteel
12-11-2009, 05:23 PM
First off i am in no way laying this at the feet of Ben. The coaching was subpar from Tomin on down. We all know BA should go and the one bright spot is that more then likely that will happen. But from the Qb standpoint, i believe that because Ben has had so much success so early in his career it is difficult to coach him. He needs a strong coach to tell him that he needs to get better. Is that Tomin i don't know yet. If Bill Parcells was the coach he could get Ben to improve even after winning two superbowls. Someone has got to challange him to be a student of the game like Manning and Brady. Those two are students of the game, and don't just rely on their gifts. Ben and Tone who could very well be together for another 6-8 years should have developed an uncanny chemistry. Manning had it with Harrison and now with Wayne. Brady with Moss and Welker. I know what you are going to say those Wr's are unbelieveable talents. True but film study and hours and hours of reps can make a world of difference. There has got to be a trust and cohesiveness between Qb and Wr so that they see the same things on the field. They each rely on there natural gifts instead of the hard work that it takes (film study and reps) ala Manning and Wayne. It is well documented the time those two put in together. I heard an interview recently with Reggie Wayne and he said that he and Manning see the same things on the field and make the RIGHT adjustments 99% of the time. He said they are rarely not on the same page.

This schoolyard football Ben plays, the improvising and escapeability it's great but it is hit or miss. Last year we hit all the way to the superbowl. This year we miss to a miserable season. To me it starts with Ben challenging himself to be a "COMPLETE" quarterback. If he puts in the hard work and develops the mental part of the game to go along with his natural talents then he could be mentioned among the greats. If he continues the staus quo he will remain a notch below.

I agree that Ben needs a coach and i think BA is not the guy.

But i think people need to stop saying Big Ben should be like Brady or Manning. Big Ben is Big Ben. Can big Ben improve on his reads or check downs ??? Hell yes.But he is just 27 yrs old and i see him improve year after year. He is playing far better this season compared to last year. Please stop saying he needs to spend more time in film room and stuff... Does anyone here really know how much time he spends in a film room??? How about getting a OC who can incorporate plays which will put players in a position to succeed.

BTW Santonio Holmes is leading the league in receiving yards. Big Ben and Holmes must be doing something right.

NWNewell
12-11-2009, 05:25 PM
First off i am in no way laying this at the feet of Ben. The coaching was subpar from Tomin on down. We all know BA should go and the one bright spot is that more then likely that will happen. But from the Qb standpoint, i believe that because Ben has had so much success so early in his career it is difficult to coach him. He needs a strong coach to tell him that he needs to get better. Is that Tomin i don't know yet. If Bill Parcells was the coach he could get Ben to improve even after winning two superbowls. Someone has got to challange him to be a student of the game like Manning and Brady. Those two are students of the game, and don't just rely on their gifts. Ben and Tone who could very well be together for another 6-8 years should have developed an uncanny chemistry. Manning had it with Harrison and now with Wayne. Brady with Moss and Welker. I know what you are going to say those Wr's are unbelieveable talents. True but film study and hours and hours of reps can make a world of difference. There has got to be a trust and cohesiveness between Qb and Wr so that they see the same things on the field. They each rely on there natural gifts instead of the hard work that it takes (film study and reps) ala Manning and Wayne. It is well documented the time those two put in together. I heard an interview recently with Reggie Wayne and he said that he and Manning see the same things on the field and make the RIGHT adjustments 99% of the time. He said they are rarely not on the same page.

This schoolyard football Ben plays, the improvising and escapeability it's great but it is hit or miss. Last year we hit all the way to the superbowl. This year we miss to a miserable season. To me it starts with Ben challenging himself to be a "COMPLETE" quarterback. If he puts in the hard work and develops the mental part of the game to go along with his natural talents then he could be mentioned among the greats. If he continues the staus quo he will remain a notch below.

I agree that Ben needs a coach and i think BA is not the guy.

But i think people need to stop saying Big Ben should be like Brady or Manning. Big Ben is Big Ben. Can big Ben improve on his reads or check downs ??? Hell yes.But he is just 27 yrs old and i see him improve year after year. He is playing far better this season compared to last year. Please stop saying he needs to spend more time in film room and stuff... Does anyone here really know how much time he spends in a film room??? How about getting a OC who can incorporate plays which will put players in a position to succeed.

BTW Santonio Holmes is leading the league in receiving yards. Big Ben and Holmes must be doing something right.

lol... read my post, two lines up from yours. :Cheers

flippy
12-11-2009, 06:16 PM
There were a number of drops. And no one was open.

NYPDSTEEL
12-11-2009, 06:36 PM
I like Ben as a player, what he has accomplished at his age is amazing. However, i am going to call it as i see it. I want Ben to be more like those two because they are the best in the sport. Would you rather me say i wish he was more like Brady Quinn? My main point is that Ben has flourished greatly on improvision. It's not all on Ben, the line play has been poor at times, the Wr's are not getting seperation at times. Also let's not forget the BA factor.

The fact that he has won as much testifies to his amazing talent. But he must improve as well. Even last night, he needs to improve on his reads and take what the defense is given him. Alot of this coaching, "Ben if you see this, lets say man to man with safeties high we will do this". Ben could have checked down all night, getting 3 or 4 yards at a minimium instead trying for big chunks and taking sacks. On the last drive he has to recognize the offensive have struggled all night to get 10 yards in 3 downs now it's 4 downs for 10 yards and that the LAST thing that can happen is a 1st down sack. Throw the ball away and it's 2nd and 10 instead of 2nd and 19. That's on Ben a coach should not have to tell him that. On the final play of the game he needs to understand the situation. He pump fakes 300 times a game, how about pump faking in that situation and running the six yards for the first down to extend the game. The qb position is both mental and physical, and in my opinion he lacks in one area.

ghettoscott
12-11-2009, 07:56 PM
:Agree

Oh no, wait :Hater

^ that ****t is funny to me... :Clap

DukieBoy
12-11-2009, 07:58 PM
Seems to me that other teams have learned how to play defense against Ben's game, they've countered his strengths, and he (and Arians) have not adjusted. Seems the empty backfield is an invitation to man-up on the receivers and rush 6 overloading the blitz to one side, corralling Ben and getting an easy sack.

When you lose to the 4th best football team in Ohio without scoring a TD, some adjustments are in order, have been in order over recent weeks actually.

Let's go Pens !!!

BURGH86STEEL
12-11-2009, 08:24 PM
Seems to me that other teams have learned how to play defense against Ben's game, they've countered his strengths, and he (and Arians) have not adjusted. Seems the empty backfield is an invitation to man-up on the receivers and rush 6 overloading the blitz to one side, corralling Ben and getting an easy sack.

When you lose to the 4th best football team in Ohio without scoring a TD, some adjustments are in order, have been in order over recent weeks actually.

Let's go Pens !!!

Can Ben adjust his game without the improvisation he has come accustomed too? Can he become a more consistent pocket passer?

I am not a fan of the empty back field. I can only assume that Ben likes that play for some reason. I don't think the coaches would run it if he was not comfortable. I believe the game is tailored around what Ben likes and dislikes in the passing game.

I am not an advocate of changing coaches because I think guys should be fired based on what we feel are bad formations or play calls. No one ever agrees 100% of the time with the play calling. I have also seen many good play calls under this OC.

It may be necessary to bring in new OC that will take some control away from Ben. With that, there are risks involved. It will be up to Tomlin and Colbert to assess the situation and make decisions.

If Tomlin and Colbert feel as I do, they may think it is just not the Steelers year. That means that many changes will not need to be made.

steelnavy
12-11-2009, 09:22 PM
I am not an advocate of changing coaches because I think guys should be fired based on what we feel are bad formations or play calls. No one ever agrees 100% of the time with the play calling. I have also seen many good play calls under this OC.

BA, is that you? :lol:

stlrz d
12-11-2009, 11:10 PM
The truth about Ben is that he is not Brady or Manning.

They are classic drop back passers.

That is their game, that is their style and that is all they can do.

I'll gladly take what we have in Ben.