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View Full Version : Ben's a talent...no arguement there, But enough already!



brothervad
12-06-2009, 03:35 PM
It's time to be a little less relying on your talent and starting to use your head.

You are in the red zone....you have all day in the pocket. If nothing is there throw it away.

come away with at least 3 points and a TD lead to end a half (in which the Raiders get the ball first).

Sorry, it's time for Ben to start using his head a little more.

brothervad

feltdizz
12-06-2009, 03:39 PM
but this is who he is... and we have to take the good with the bad right? I'm joking.. I see no reason why Ben can't "be Ben" and take what the D gives him..

it's not 4th down in OT with no time left...

rewatch that play and look at the RB wide open with 20 yards to run.. Ben hates throwing short unless he is about to get sacked.

LordVile
12-06-2009, 11:00 PM
a bleeding shame... using his head means diving head first for 1st downs.

NJ-STEELER
12-07-2009, 01:12 AM
but this is who he is... and we have to take the good with the bad right? I'm joking.. I see no reason why Ben can't "be Ben" and take what the D gives him..

it's not 4th down in OT with no time left...

rewatch that play and look at the RB wide open with 20 yards to run.. Ben hates throwing short unless he is about to get sacked.


what play? the INT?

MeMo and miller stood in to block, wallace was coming around on the fake end around

holmes and were out in patterns

Scarletfire1970
12-07-2009, 06:39 AM
Anyone complaining about Ben after that game needs their head examined.

He played a great game. He did everything he could to win that game and we should have won it.

It is the defense that should be apologizing to Ben and from what I understand they did just that after the game.

NWNewell
12-07-2009, 03:56 PM
Anyone complaining about Ben after that game needs their head examined.

He played a great game. He did everything he could to win that game and we should have won it.

It is the defense that should be apologizing to Ben and from what I understand they did just that after the game.

As much as I hate that INT and coming away with nothing in the redzone, I'd have to pretty much agree.

Ben is one of the last people to blame for this lose. When the defense couldn't hang onto a 4 point lead in the 4th quarter, Ben and the offense gave them another chance.... and ANOTHER chance. I wish they could have been more efficient all day. But that rarely happens. Ben and the offense gave them opportunities to win this game... just like they have most games.

Scarletfire1970
12-08-2009, 07:54 AM
Anyone complaining about Ben after that game needs their head examined.

He played a great game. He did everything he could to win that game and we should have won it.

It is the defense that should be apologizing to Ben and from what I understand they did just that after the game.

As much as I hate that INT and coming away with nothing in the redzone, I'd have to pretty much agree.

Ben is one of the last people to blame for this lose. When the defense couldn't hang onto a 4 point lead in the 4th quarter, Ben and the offense gave them another chance.... and ANOTHER chance. I wish they could have been more efficient all day. But that rarely happens. Ben and the offense gave them opportunities to win this game... just like they have most games.24 points really ought to be enough to beat the Oakland Raiders.

frankthetank1
12-08-2009, 08:42 AM
ben is one of the few players that are exempt in the blame game imo. ben has been great this season. he has had a much better season this year than last. one bad throw out of how many on sunday? ben doesnt play defense either.

JTP53609
12-08-2009, 09:31 AM
he makes plays out of nothing and everyone is on his nuts, than when he does try to make something out of nothing he is being stupid for not throwing it away....

I agree that there is at least one throw he makes a game where your like "come on Ben, what are you doing" but the other 98% of the throws are absolute money balls. The way he played last week was enough to win, yea he did make a pretty boneheaded throw inside the redzone, but he was flawless through out and he was not playing in the secondary, blame someone else

brothervad
12-08-2009, 01:35 PM
comment made in-game before the collapse, but I stand by the statement.

I will not deny that Ben is the least of our concerns, but he needs to start using his head more.

hey if you disagree with this, then you also disagree with Tomlin. In his PC, he stated pointed to points left out there.

first with the pick in the redzone and then with the sack while in FG range.

In a game that was decided by 3 points...those plays were big.

The D is struggling...everyone knows it...that means the O needs to grab points where it can.

Forcing a ball or taking a sack can be the difference in a "W" or an "L".

Again, I think Ben is a great talent, but a lot of folks want to put him in the Manning/Brady level. All I am saying is to get there the man needs to start using his football IQ a bit more.

brothervad

JTP53609
12-08-2009, 01:39 PM
going for it on 4th and inches with your qb who was just out the week before with a concussion is also left points on the board, what is really funny is how the raiders pick up fourth and inches and we do not...

NWNewell
12-08-2009, 04:57 PM
comment made in-game before the collapse, but I stand by the statement.

I will not deny that Ben is the least of our concerns, but he needs to start using his head more.

hey if you disagree with this, then you also disagree with Tomlin. In his PC, he stated pointed to points left out there.

first with the pick in the redzone and then with the sack while in FG range.

In a game that was decided by 3 points...those plays were big.

The D is struggling...everyone knows it...that means the O needs to grab points where it can.

Forcing a ball or taking a sack can be the difference in a "W" or an "L".

Again, I think Ben is a great talent, but a lot of folks want to put him in the Manning/Brady level. All I am saying is to get there the man needs to start using his football IQ a bit more.

brothervad


Of course those things hurt Ben's game wasn't pefect. But:
- the O-line didn't protect well at all on that sack.
- Defense can't be giving up 21 points in the last 8 minutes on 3 consecutive drives (none were on turnovers or Steelers mistakes).
- You shouldn't be going for in on 4 & 1 in the redzone. Take the damn points!
- Trying to kick a 56 yard field goal was absurd. Punt and make them drive.

feltdizz
12-08-2009, 05:33 PM
We have threads to bash Tomlin and the OC and DC. Why is it off limits to question red zone INT's or sacks that take pointe off the board? We jump on all the players nuts when they do well but when they make mistakes everyone is judged but Ben? That's bull..

This is the second time Ben has thrown a redzone INT when we had a chance to put some distance between us and a subpar team in must win situations... Our D blows this year and we need our $100 million dollar QB to bail the D out this year...

We complain about points and how other teams blow KC out but maybe this is why.... Every loss we have had to a scrub team the last 4 years has an obvious trend.. Red zone INT's

feltdizz
12-08-2009, 05:35 PM
but this is who he is... and we have to take the good with the bad right? I'm joking.. I see no reason why Ben can't "be Ben" and take what the D gives him..

it's not 4th down in OT with no time left...

rewatch that play and look at the RB wide open with 20 yards to run.. Ben hates throwing short unless he is about to get sacked.


what play? the INT?

MeMo and miller stood in to block, wallace was coming around on the fake end around

holmes and were out in patterns

whoever did the end around was open. At least they looked open on the fuzzy Justin tv link

grotonsteel
12-08-2009, 07:01 PM
comment made in-game before the collapse, but I stand by the statement.

I will not deny that Ben is the least of our concerns, but he needs to start using his head more.

hey if you disagree with this, then you also disagree with Tomlin. In his PC, he stated pointed to points left out there.

first with the pick in the redzone and then with the sack while in FG range.

In a game that was decided by 3 points...those plays were big.

The D is struggling...everyone knows it...that means the O needs to grab points where it can.

Forcing a ball or taking a sack can be the difference in a "W" or an "L".

Again, I think Ben is a great talent, but a lot of folks want to put him in the Manning/Brady level. All I am saying is to get there the man needs to start using his football IQ a bit more.

brothervad


I did not see any difference between Tom Brady and Big Ben this season. Big Ben has caught up with Marsha.

grotonsteel
12-08-2009, 07:04 PM
We have threads to bash Tomlin and the OC and DC. Why is it off limits to question red zone INT's or sacks that take pointe off the board? We jump on all the players nuts when they do well but when they make mistakes everyone is judged but Ben? That's bull..

This is the second time Ben has thrown a redzone INT when we had a chance to put some distance between us and a subpar team in must win situations... Our D blows this year and we need our $100 million dollar QB to bail the D out this year...

We complain about points and how other teams blow KC out but maybe this is why.... Every loss we have had to a scrub team the last 4 years has an obvious trend.. Red zone INT's

I think Big Ben has thrown 2 red zone INTs in 2 season. Again i can't confirm this stat but if true i don't see this as an issue. $hit happens.

RuthlessBurgher
12-08-2009, 07:23 PM
comment made in-game before the collapse, but I stand by the statement.

I will not deny that Ben is the least of our concerns, but he needs to start using his head more.

hey if you disagree with this, then you also disagree with Tomlin. In his PC, he stated pointed to points left out there.

first with the pick in the redzone and then with the sack while in FG range.

In a game that was decided by 3 points...those plays were big.

The D is struggling...everyone knows it...that means the O needs to grab points where it can.

Forcing a ball or taking a sack can be the difference in a "W" or an "L".

Again, I think Ben is a great talent, but a lot of folks want to put him in the Manning/Brady level. All I am saying is to get there the man needs to start using his football IQ a bit more.

brothervad


I did not see any difference between Tom Brady and Big Ben this season. Big Ben has caught up with Marsha.

Tom Brady 301-458 65.7% 3,638 yds 7.9 YPA 22 TD 10 INT 96.9 Rating 7-5 Record

Ben Roethlisberger 255-368 69.3% 3,145 yds 8.5 YPA 19 TD 11 INT 100.2 Rating 6-6 Record

grotonsteel
12-08-2009, 08:05 PM
comment made in-game before the collapse, but I stand by the statement.

I will not deny that Ben is the least of our concerns, but he needs to start using his head more.

hey if you disagree with this, then you also disagree with Tomlin. In his PC, he stated pointed to points left out there.

first with the pick in the redzone and then with the sack while in FG range.

In a game that was decided by 3 points...those plays were big.

The D is struggling...everyone knows it...that means the O needs to grab points where it can.

Forcing a ball or taking a sack can be the difference in a "W" or an "L".

Again, I think Ben is a great talent, but a lot of folks want to put him in the Manning/Brady level. All I am saying is to get there the man needs to start using his football IQ a bit more.

brothervad


I did not see any difference between Tom Brady and Big Ben this season. Big Ben has caught up with Marsha.

Tom Brady 301-458 65.7% 3,638 yds 7.9 YPA 22 TD 10 INT 96.9 Rating 7-5 Record

Ben Roethlisberger 255-368 69.3% 3,145 yds 8.5 YPA 19 TD 11 INT 100.2 Rating 6-6 Record

Stats are almost similar...I will take Big Ben over Brady....and Big Ben is still 27...

NJ-STEELER
12-09-2009, 02:35 AM
but this is who he is... and we have to take the good with the bad right? I'm joking.. I see no reason why Ben can't "be Ben" and take what the D gives him..

it's not 4th down in OT with no time left...

rewatch that play and look at the RB wide open with 20 yards to run.. Ben hates throwing short unless he is about to get sacked.


what play? the INT?

MeMo and miller stood in to block, wallace was coming around on the fake end around

holmes and were out in patterns

whoever did the end around was open. At least they looked open on the fuzzy Justin tv link

damn, you watch it on there.


no wonder you had no idea what happened on that play.

at the time of the throw, wallace was still a yard or two behind the yard line Ben was standing on.


if he waits until he gets out ahead or waits for memo or miller to break from trying to pick up a blitz and gets sacked....we'll see more bitching about why he holds the ball too long

proudpittsburgher
12-09-2009, 10:53 AM
[quote=feltdizz]but this is who he is... and we have to take the good with the bad right? I'm joking.. I see no reason why Ben can't "be Ben" and take what the D gives him..

it's not 4th down in OT with no time left...

rewatch that play and look at the RB wide open with 20 yards to run.. Ben hates throwing short unless he is about to get sacked.


what play? the INT?

MeMo and miller stood in to block, wallace was coming around on the fake end around

holmes and were out in patterns

whoever did the end around was open. At least they looked open on the fuzzy Justin tv link

damn, you watch it on there.


no wonder you had no idea what happened on that play.

at the time of the throw, wallace was still a yard or two behind the yard line Ben was standing on.


if he waits until he gets out ahead or waits for memo or miller to break from trying to pick up a blitz and gets sacked....we'll see more bitching about why he holds the ball too long[/quote:1b2gk840]

It's par for the course with some. I'm not putting brothervad in that category, because I don't know him well enough, but I have to share a story from Sunday . . .

I went to the local bar to watch the game for only the secodn time this season (all other games were on locally in Indiana . . . I have been blessed) . I heard a commotion from the other room in the bar . . . Pats* fans in there, and this really loudmouth guy was just clammering on and on about Brady. Really loud (it's a big bar, and I felt like eh was yelling in my ear). Anyway, I rolled my eyes. Fast forward about an hour, and Brady throws a pick to end the game, which I later saw he was hit while making this throw) the same guy was yelling out loud that Brady sucks. "What the hell is he doing. he sucks . . . man, I'm outta here". Again, I rolled my eyes. Some people will never be happy unless they have a quarterback who completes every one of his throws, and never throws a pick,. and his team always wins the super bowl. That Qb is elite when they win, and he sucks when they lose. We have a few of those belivers on this board, I won't name names, but they are real "true fans". Drives me nutz.

frankthetank1
12-09-2009, 11:00 AM
We have threads to bash Tomlin and the OC and DC. Why is it off limits to question red zone INT's or sacks that take pointe off the board? We jump on all the players nuts when they do well but when they make mistakes everyone is judged but Ben? That's bull..

This is the second time Ben has thrown a redzone INT when we had a chance to put some distance between us and a subpar team in must win situations... Our D blows this year and we need our $100 million dollar QB to bail the D out this year...

We complain about points and how other teams blow KC out but maybe this is why.... Every loss we have had to a scrub team the last 4 years has an obvious trend.. Red zone INT's

its not off limits to criticize ben but at least wait untill he has a bad game to criticize. imo troy and ben are the most important and most talented players on the team. last season ben wasnt all that great, i even criticized him a good deal but this season he has been almost perfect

feltdizz
12-09-2009, 12:05 PM
Lol... Ben has had some good games but he has also had some bad ones... It's not th stas it's the INT's in the end zone and the KC pick that really hurt us this year. Sure the D stinks this year but there is nothing wrong with wanting your QB to make those plays and criticizing him for not making them. I don't expect zero INT's in a season but 0 INT's against KC and Oakland would have been nice. I give Ben tons of credit when he does well... so I don't give a damn if I sound overly critical of our QB. I think he plays down to the competition as well as the rest of the team and it's a problem.

Regarding Wallace on the wrap around it isn't against the rules to throw to Wallace because he wasn't downfield. I think he had more then enough room to make something happen. My biggest complaint with Ben is the 3 yard dump off when Ben isn't under immense pressure. Teams leave the flats open and put an extra guy deep because they know Ben's tendencies to gamble. When it works in our favor it's great but so many other times dives stall when the RB is wide open in the flat yet for some reason Ben trust his arm more then Mends feet.

Please spare me the history of Bens greatness... I know about it. I just think he can "be great" and make some better decisions. I disagree on Ben being perfect or near perfec this season.. great stats without the win is failure... Our D is in the top 5 and stinks IMO.

I think Ben was "perfect" when we were 15-1 or during his first SB run. That was perfection. Throwing red zone int's against 2 sub par teams in the midst of a 4 game skid is a concern. The KC int may have been outside the 20 but the pass was intercepted on the 10 and returned 90 yards...

ikestops85
12-09-2009, 01:18 PM
I think Ben is a great QB but he does have faults. Recognizing the back or TE open in the flat is one of them. He generally only makes that throw when he is being tackled. Holding on to the ball too long (not throwing it away) is a 2 edged sword since he has made many great plays by doing that. He has also taken a lot of sacks that way.

Ben likes the big play and he is successful at it. I cuss Ben out many times during the game ... and I cheer for him many others. A good example of that is his big pass to Holmes that went to the 3 yard line. When I watched the play unfold I was like "OH NO" to "OH YES". That pass could have easily been picked off but the Oakland DB imitated a Steeler DB and didn't pick up the flight of the ball.

No QB is perfect and that includes Ben. You can always criticize the QB but that's just the nature of the position. Ben is a gambler much like Favre but he is the most exciting QB that the Burgh has ever, yes EVER, seen and I wouldn't trade him for any other QB in the league.

RuthlessBurgher
12-09-2009, 02:14 PM
Lol... Ben has had some good games but he has also had some bad ones... It's not th stas it's the INT's in the end zone and the KC pick that really hurt us this year. Sure the D stinks this year but there is nothing wrong with wanting your QB to make those plays and criticizing him for not making them. I don't expect zero INT's in a season but 0 INT's against KC and Oakland would have been nice. I give Ben tons of credit when he does well... so I don't give a damn if I sound overly critical of our QB. I think he plays down to the competition as well as the rest of the team and it's a problem.

Regarding Wallace on the wrap around it isn't against the rules to throw to Wallace because he wasn't downfield. I think he had more then enough room to make something happen. My biggest complaint with Ben is the 3 yard dump off when Ben isn't under immense pressure. Teams leave the flats open and put an extra guy deep because they know Ben's tendencies to gamble. When it works in our favor it's great but so many other times dives stall when the RB is wide open in the flat yet for some reason Ben trust his arm more then Mends feet.

Please spare me the history of Bens greatness... I know about it. I just think he can "be great" and make some better decisions. I disagree on Ben being perfect or near perfec this season.. great stats without the win is failure... Our D is in the top 5 and stinks IMO.

I think Ben was "perfect" when we were 15-1 or during his first SB run. That was perfection. Throwing red zone int's against 2 sub par teams in the midst of a 4 game skid is a concern. The KC int may have been outside the 20 but the pass was intercepted on the 10 and returned 90 yards...

Well, Ben has 11 interceptions this season (in 368 passes).

He had 11 interceptions during his rookie season (in 295 passes).

I do fault him for the INT against Oakland. Awful pass. There were 4 Raiders in the vicinity and only 1 Steeler, and he underthrew it right to one of them.

But the red zone INT against KC wasn't his fault. He was hit as a threw, and the ball was fluttering to the goal line like a wounded duck.

feltdizz
12-09-2009, 03:00 PM
I'm not talking stats though... I'm talking about in game performance. Brees and Manning have killer stats but if I have one game to win I want Ben. Manning is a stat freak but when the pressure is on he is ehh...

I think with Ben it's the opposite. He tends to have a WTF moment in these games against lesser opponents and it hurts us. Amy other year our D would cover his mistakes but this year they are ass in the secondary. When we lose these types of games it's easy to go back and magnify the INT.

If Hines or holmes fumbled at the one we would tall about them too... In a loss I think it's fair to criticize everyone.

NWNewell
12-09-2009, 03:13 PM
Lol... Ben has had some good games but he has also had some bad ones... It's not th stas it's the INT's in the end zone and the KC pick that really hurt us this year. Sure the D stinks this year but there is nothing wrong with wanting your QB to make those plays and criticizing him for not making them. I don't expect zero INT's in a season but 0 INT's against KC and Oakland would have been nice. I give Ben tons of credit when he does well... so I don't give a damn if I sound overly critical of our QB. I think he plays down to the competition as well as the rest of the team and it's a problem.

Regarding Wallace on the wrap around it isn't against the rules to throw to Wallace because he wasn't downfield. I think he had more then enough room to make something happen. My biggest complaint with Ben is the 3 yard dump off when Ben isn't under immense pressure. Teams leave the flats open and put an extra guy deep because they know Ben's tendencies to gamble. When it works in our favor it's great but so many other times dives stall when the RB is wide open in the flat yet for some reason Ben trust his arm more then Mends feet.

Please spare me the history of Bens greatness... I know about it. I just think he can "be great" and make some better decisions. I disagree on Ben being perfect or near perfec this season.. great stats without the win is failure... Our D is in the top 5 and stinks IMO.

I think Ben was "perfect" when we were 15-1 or during his first SB run. That was perfection. Throwing red zone int's against 2 sub par teams in the midst of a 4 game skid is a concern. The KC int may have been outside the 20 but the pass was intercepted on the 10 and returned 90 yards...

Well, Ben has 11 interceptions this season (in 368 passes).

He had 11 interceptions during his rookie season (in 295 passes).


I love when people make moronic claims based on emotional, irrational feelings instead of accurate information. But your thought still holds true:

Both this year and 2004 were incomplete seasons, so these numbers are projected for a 16 Starts season.

2004 (363 att): 66.4% Completion, 8.9 yds/att, 13.5 INT, 21 TD, 100.2 Rating, 43 sacks
Total Offense: 23.2 pts/g, 324 yds/g, 5.1 yds/ply

2009 (535 att): 69.3% Completion, 8.5 yds/att, 16 INT, 27.5 TD, 98.1 Rating, 37 sacks
Total Offense: 22.7 pts/g, 374.8 yds/g, 6 yds/ply

Ben's efficiency this year is every bit as good as the "pefect season" you are refering too. And that's kind of impressive when you look at how much more Ben is asked to do now... throwing, much, much more as oppose to just managing it and letting Bettis and Parker grind out the games. You might have more INT's, but he also has more TD's for actually a better TD to INT ratio than in 2004. And his attempts per TD and INT are much better this year than in 2004. Our points/game is about the same, yet our yards per game and yds/ply is much better than in 2004 with him playing a larger roll in the offense. And we've given up a whopping 40 seconds per game from Ben throwing more (34:00 vs 33:20).

So, Ben is actually performing "beyond perfection" this year, according to your definition of perfection.



PS. This is not an argument for a pass happy Steelers team or that Ben is gods gift. Ben is not perfect, nor is he performing perfectly and I'm Still all for good balance with maybe a slight lean towards your strengths (55/45), and with the way Mendy is running I don't see a need for much of a lean. And I agree that some of his many imperfections this year have been the two redzone INT's. But to say that Ben played great during the 2004 season and is playing worse this year is absurd and ignorant.

NJ-STEELER
12-09-2009, 05:20 PM
Lol... Ben has had some good games but he has also had some bad ones... It's not th stas it's the INT's in the end zone and the KC pick that really hurt us this year. Sure the D stinks this year but there is nothing wrong with wanting your QB to make those plays and criticizing him for not making them. I don't expect zero INT's in a season but 0 INT's against KC and Oakland would have been nice. I give Ben tons of credit when he does well... so I don't give a damn if I sound overly critical of our QB. I think he plays down to the competition as well as the rest of the team and it's a problem.

Regarding Wallace on the wrap around it isn't against the rules to throw to Wallace because he wasn't downfield. I think he had more then enough room to make something happen. My biggest complaint with Ben is the 3 yard dump off when Ben isn't under immense pressure. Teams leave the flats open and put an extra guy deep because they know Ben's tendencies to gamble. When it works in our favor it's great but so many other times dives stall when the RB is wide open in the flat yet for some reason Ben trust his arm more then Mends feet.

Please spare me the history of Bens greatness... I know about it. I just think he can "be great" and make some better decisions. I disagree on Ben being perfect or near perfec this season.. great stats without the win is failure... Our D is in the top 5 and stinks IMO.

I think Ben was "perfect" when we were 15-1 or during his first SB run. That was perfection. Throwing red zone int's against 2 sub par teams in the midst of a 4 game skid is a concern. The KC int may have been outside the 20 but the pass was intercepted on the 10 and returned 90 yards...


but, thats what i'm trying to tell you.


at the time he threw it, wallace wasn't even in front of him yet....so, he didn't see him open. he wasn't into his route

and MeMo and Heath weren't open yet either, cause their backs were facing ben trying to pick up blitzers.

yeah, it was a bad INT. probably should have hung unto it a bit longer (despite all the **** some write on here or constantly say that he holds the ball too long) and then miller and/or Memo could have sprung out to the flat or wallace had gotten into his route.

he chose to try and squeeze the ball to Hines (who also thought he was open by raising his arm in the end zonre).

**** happenes... that happens to QBs all the time from manning, bardy, and bress. if he (or another QB) get that ball into the recever its a hilite throw/catch touchdown

feltdizz
12-09-2009, 06:39 PM
So, Ben is actually performing "beyond perfection" this year, according to your definition of perfection.

Stop glorifying the stats and look at the wins... I don't see how a person can put up Ben's stats this season with a 6-6 record and say he is playing near perfect football.

6-6 is not perfection..

NWNewell
12-10-2009, 10:53 AM
So, Ben is actually performing "beyond perfection" this year, according to your definition of perfection.

Stop glorifying the stats and look at the wins... I don't see how a person can put up Ben's stats this season with a 6-6 record and say he is playing near perfect football.

6-6 is not perfection..

There was a huge layer of sarcasim in that "beyond perfection" comment.

He is not performing perfectly at all, nor did he in 2004. I'm not glorifying anything. He's playing just as efficently now as he was then... even when asked to do more. He's producing just as well this year, if not better, than he did in 2004.

The reason we are 6-6 this year and 15-1 in 2004 has nothing to do with Ben playing worse this year than in 2004. He's not. But a lot of other phases of the game are a lot worse.

Ben is playing fine. Great? No, but just fine. He's made a mistakes that have hurt us and probably could have cost us a game or two, but he's not the reason we are 6-6. That's my point.

And for the record. I'm not on Ben's jock. In fact I'm probably one of the few that feel he's not eliete. Very good, but not elite. I don't act like he needs run out of town when you does bad, but I don't think he's as good as Manning, Brady, Brees either. Not yet. All players have highs and lows and I don't ride the motional rollercoaster that some fans do.

feltdizz
12-10-2009, 01:41 PM
I've never been a "elite" QB nut. I don't care about Brees and Mannings "numbers" nor do I care about Bens numbers, besides his sack numbers. I don't care if he throws 3 TD's or has 0 TD's as long as we win.

I guess my main frustration is this year we need our O to carry the D and I think our 100 million dollar man needs play better.

Screw Brady, Manning and Brees.. The ain't sh!t in my book. If they were on
my team I would criticize them too... One is a cheat and 7-5 this year and the other 2 put up mega yards until the real games start. Once in the playoffs we will see who is so-called "elite"

NJ-STEELER
12-12-2009, 05:18 PM
Lol... Ben has had some good games but he has also had some bad ones... It's not th stas it's the INT's in the end zone and the KC pick that really hurt us this year. Sure the D stinks this year but there is nothing wrong with wanting your QB to make those plays and criticizing him for not making them. I don't expect zero INT's in a season but 0 INT's against KC and Oakland would have been nice. I give Ben tons of credit when he does well... so I don't give a damn if I sound overly critical of our QB. I think he plays down to the competition as well as the rest of the team and it's a problem.

Regarding Wallace on the wrap around it isn't against the rules to throw to Wallace because he wasn't downfield. I think he had more then enough room to make something happen. My biggest complaint with Ben is the 3 yard dump off when Ben isn't under immense pressure. Teams leave the flats open and put an extra guy deep because they know Ben's tendencies to gamble. When it works in our favor it's great but so many other times dives stall when the RB is wide open in the flat yet for some reason Ben trust his arm more then Mends feet.

Please spare me the history of Bens greatness... I know about it. I just think he can "be great" and make some better decisions. I disagree on Ben being perfect or near perfec this season.. great stats without the win is failure... Our D is in the top 5 and stinks IMO.

I think Ben was "perfect" when we were 15-1 or during his first SB run. That was perfection. Throwing red zone int's against 2 sub par teams in the midst of a 4 game skid is a concern. The KC int may have been outside the 20 but the pass was intercepted on the 10 and returned 90 yards...

Well, Ben has 11 interceptions this season (in 368 passes).

He had 11 interceptions during his rookie season (in 295 passes).

I do fault him for the INT against Oakland. Awful pass. There were 4 Raiders in the vicinity and only 1 Steeler, and he underthrew it right to one of them.

But the red zone INT against KC wasn't his fault. He was hit as a threw, and the ball was fluttering to the goal line like a wounded duck.

thats why i made the remark about the feed from justin TV. i actually wonder if he was able to see that the way it cuts in and out .

so, if he doesn't get hit right as he's throwing and if miller doesn't perfectly deflect a ball in his hands form another INT...he has what dizz wants...no INTS vs. KC.

sometimes i wonder if some post on here not watchign the game and just read the stat sheets.

the raider INT, yes, it was a bad decesion to throw it. throwing it to wallace was at the least the 3rd option. and miller and Memo still had their backs to ben picking up blitzers.

he saw option 1 or 2 and decided to go for it. bad choice..that happens to all QBs