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View Full Version : do we know more than the coaches



JTP53609
11-30-2009, 10:11 AM
but seriously...I am a 24 year old P.E teacher, I think I know alot about the game, but obviously the coaches know more, however, how does a 24 yr old P.E coach understand the dave casper rule, which is where the offensive team cannot advance a fumble inside of 2 minutes, at the end of the game the ball should of been marked at the 45, instead it was marked at the 37. I was screaming at the tv yelling this. When asked after the game about this rule, Tomlin said he was unaware of it....unaware?, he and his staff need to know the rules, because that could of cost us the game, instead our defense and not taking advantage of overtime hurt us......

papillon
11-30-2009, 10:14 AM
but seriously...I am a 24 year old P.E teacher, I think I know alot about the game, but obviously the coaches know more, however, how does a 24 yr old P.E coach understand the dave casper rule, which is where the offensive team cannot advance a fumble inside of 2 minutes, at the end of the game the ball should of been marked at the 45, instead it was marked at the 37. I was screaming at the tv yelling this. When asked after the game about this rule, Tomlin said he was unaware of it....unaware?, he and his staff need to know the rules, because that could of cost us the game, instead our defense and not taking advantage of overtime hurt us......

He couldn't have thrown the challenge flag regardless of whether he is aware of the rule or not. Only booth reviews in the last two minutes, which means the officials have to know the rules and not the coaches. Clearly this refereeing crew didn't know the rules and Al Michaels was very vocal about thyat fact stating, "that there would be hell to pay if the Steelers would have lost the game because of the bad spot."

Pappy

JTP53609
11-30-2009, 10:18 AM
i understand you cannot challenge inside of 2 minutes...but when you see the feild goal team will be able to get the kick off and there is 3 seconds on the clock still, call a timeout and run in their ear for the length of the timeout. the officiating was pretty bad last night (both sides) but coaches need to know the rules too, and that bugs me that they did not and alot of us probably knew that and were yelling like me as it happened...

RuthlessBurgher
11-30-2009, 10:52 AM
They had to rush their FG team out there in order to just get a FG attempt off. If Tomlin had called a timeout, it only would have helped them.

And at only 24, you are too young to know who Dave Casper is. :wink:

BradshawsHairdresser
11-30-2009, 12:36 PM
Unbelievable...Tomlin didn't know this rule? I've wanted to believe that he is a competent,
engaged head coach....maybe he is just a clueless figurehead, and maybe that explains why this team is falling apart and wasting the season...

LouSteel
11-30-2009, 12:41 PM
There are quite a few odd NFL rules, but I can't believe Tomlin didn't know that one. I was screaming at my TV that the spot was wrong...

Of course, I think it is clear that we all know more than Arians :lol:

LasVegasGuy
11-30-2009, 01:11 PM
Unbelievable...Tomlin didn't know this rule? I've wanted to believe that he is a competent,
engaged head coach....maybe he is just a clueless figurehead, and maybe that explains why this team is falling apart and wasting the season...


I'm sure he will take full responsibility, as always, as we chalk another loss in the L-Column.

Steeler Mafia
11-30-2009, 01:27 PM
There are quite a few odd NFL rules, but I can't believe Tomlin didn't know that one. I was screaming at my TV that the spot was wrong...

Of course, I think it is clear that we all know more than Arians :lol:

My dog knows more than Arians! :HeadBanger

SteelAbility
11-30-2009, 01:31 PM
6-5 with this roster???? I think you could make a strong case for some of us knowing better than the coaches.

RussBII
11-30-2009, 01:46 PM
6-5 with this roster???? I think you could make a strong case for some of us knowing better than the coaches.

Bahhh. There's no way we know more than an NFL coach. They just have access that we don't. End of story. Knowing more, and making correct decisions based on that knowledge are two different things...

Now do we get to sit comfortably and see a play from every angle? Thus making us more informed about in game decisions? Most definitely.

SteelAbility
11-30-2009, 01:59 PM
6-5 with this roster???? I think you could make a strong case for some of us knowing better than the coaches.

Bahhh. There's no way we know more than an NFL coach. They just have access that we don't. End of story. Knowing more, and making correct decisions based on that knowledge are two different things...

Now do we get to sit comfortably and see a play from every angle? Thus making us more informed about in game decisions? Most definitely.

Obviously we don't know more about football technique etc.. However, in the area of basic strategy (which is common to many things) I think we probably do. Take, for example, our play-calling on our final drive in regulation.

Dixon was 2 of 9 (or 2 of 10 or something close to that) in the 2nd half. So we go drop-back passing with that percentage on the table against us???? What was the result? 3 Plays. 12 seconds. Nice strategy! Damn near lost in regulation.

Now, if you run the ball then at least you chew up clock and limit your opponents' opportunity in the event that you go 3 and out. Doesn't take years of football coaching and access to "knowledge" to figure that out.

Take also as an example the complete non-attempt to do anything at the end of the 1st half with about 40 seconds to go and the ball just past our own 40. How about a deep sideline pass?? 3 PRIMARY outcomes that eat up 90%+ of possible outcomes ...

1. Incomplete. Ok, big deal. It's better than Carey Davis up the middle with a chance at a fumble on our own 40.

2. Complete. You can figure out the implications of that.

3. Intercepted. OK. Remember the idea is a SIDELINE pass, generally thrown high and to the outside. So, the defender most likely goes out of bounds or the receiver is able to make a tackle on the play at the spot of the catch. Isn't that like a deep punt inside the others guy's 15, leaving them to go 50 yards with no timeouts before they can do any point damage???? Given that the pass protection had been great to that point, I would put the likelihood of a sack very low on that play.

Yeah, sorry, Carey Davis up the middle with a chance at a fumble just 7 to 8 yards away from FG range is SO MUCH BETTER. :wft

BURGH86STEEL
11-30-2009, 02:30 PM
Unbelievable...Tomlin didn't know this rule? I've wanted to believe that he is a competent,
engaged head coach....maybe he is just a clueless figurehead, and maybe that explains why this team is falling apart and wasting the season...

I think there are very few coaches that know every rule in the rule book. There seems to be times that the officials are unsure of rules. I don't think Tomlin should be hammered to hard over not knowing that rule.

The team is not falling apart. They are still in the thick of the playoff race. It seems to me that the fans are falling apart and overreacting as usual.

RuthlessBurgher
11-30-2009, 03:05 PM
6-5 with this roster???? I think you could make a strong case for some of us knowing better than the coaches.

Bahhh. There's no way we know more than an NFL coach. They just have access that we don't. End of story. Knowing more, and making correct decisions based on that knowledge are two different things...

Now do we get to sit comfortably and see a play from every angle? Thus making us more informed about in game decisions? Most definitely.

Obviously we don't know more about football technique etc.. However, in the area of basic strategy (which is common to many things) I think we probably do. Take, for example, our play-calling on our final drive in regulation.

Dixon was 2 of 9 (or 2 of 10 or something close to that) in the 2nd half. So we go drop-back passing with that percentage on the table against us???? What was the result? 3 Plays. 12 seconds. Nice strategy! Damn near lost in regulation.

Now, if you run the ball then at least you chew up clock and limit your opponents' opportunity in the event that you go 3 and out. Doesn't take years of football coaching and access to "knowledge" to figure that out.

Take also as an example the complete non-attempt to do anything at the end of the 1st half with about 40 seconds to go and the ball just past our own 40. How about a deep sideline pass?? 3 PRIMARY outcomes that eat up 90%+ of possible outcomes ...

1. Incomplete. Ok, big deal. It's better than Carey Davis up the middle with a chance at a fumble on our own 40.

2. Complete. You can figure out the implications of that.

3. Intercepted. OK. Remember the idea is a SIDELINE pass, generally thrown high and to the outside. So, the defender most likely goes out of bounds or the receiver is able to make a tackle on the play at the spot of the catch. Isn't that like a deep punt inside the others guy's 15, leaving them to go 50 yards with no timeouts before they can do any point damage???? Given that the pass protection had been great to that point, I would put the likelihood of a sack very low on that play.

Yeah, sorry, Carey Davis up the middle with a chance at a fumble just 7 to 8 yards away from FG range is SO MUCH BETTER. :wft

Although I am not necessarily disagreeing with you (I did not like the decision to run out the clock at the end of the first half with one timeout in your pocket whatsoever), everything we complain about on here on Monday morning is with the benefit of 20-20 hindsight.

For example:

You are saying at the end of the 1st half, we should have passed deep! Why were they running???

And then at the end of the 2nd half, we should have been running! Why were they passing deep???

It is easy to say after something does not work that we should have run something else instead. (I don't mean to be calling you out on this specifically here...just something I see from fans in general, and this seemed to be as good a place as any to voice that general complaint).

SteelAbility
11-30-2009, 03:20 PM
6-5 with this roster???? I think you could make a strong case for some of us knowing better than the coaches.

Bahhh. There's no way we know more than an NFL coach. They just have access that we don't. End of story. Knowing more, and making correct decisions based on that knowledge are two different things...

Now do we get to sit comfortably and see a play from every angle? Thus making us more informed about in game decisions? Most definitely.

Obviously we don't know more about football technique etc.. However, in the area of basic strategy (which is common to many things) I think we probably do. Take, for example, our play-calling on our final drive in regulation.

Dixon was 2 of 9 (or 2 of 10 or something close to that) in the 2nd half. So we go drop-back passing with that percentage on the table against us???? What was the result? 3 Plays. 12 seconds. Nice strategy! Damn near lost in regulation.

Now, if you run the ball then at least you chew up clock and limit your opponents' opportunity in the event that you go 3 and out. Doesn't take years of football coaching and access to "knowledge" to figure that out.

Take also as an example the complete non-attempt to do anything at the end of the 1st half with about 40 seconds to go and the ball just past our own 40. How about a deep sideline pass?? 3 PRIMARY outcomes that eat up 90%+ of possible outcomes ...

1. Incomplete. Ok, big deal. It's better than Carey Davis up the middle with a chance at a fumble on our own 40.

2. Complete. You can figure out the implications of that.

3. Intercepted. OK. Remember the idea is a SIDELINE pass, generally thrown high and to the outside. So, the defender most likely goes out of bounds or the receiver is able to make a tackle on the play at the spot of the catch. Isn't that like a deep punt inside the others guy's 15, leaving them to go 50 yards with no timeouts before they can do any point damage???? Given that the pass protection had been great to that point, I would put the likelihood of a sack very low on that play.

Yeah, sorry, Carey Davis up the middle with a chance at a fumble just 7 to 8 yards away from FG range is SO MUCH BETTER. :wft

Although I am not necessarily disagreeing with you (I did not like the decision to run out the clock at the end of the first half with one timeout in your pocket whatsoever), everything we complain about on here on Monday morning is with the benefit of 20-20 hindsight.

For example:

You are saying at the end of the 1st half, we should have passed deep! Why were they running???

And then at the end of the 2nd half, we should have been running! Why were they passing deep???

It is easy to say after something does not work that we should have run something else instead. (I don't mean to be calling you out on this specifically here...just something I see from fans in general, and this seemed to be as good a place as any to voice that general complaint).

All I can tell you is that I saw both of these before the fact. When it was happening I would have screamed at the TV except my wife was asleep. But I was pretty steamed about the play-calling being the complete opposite of what it should have been, not once but freakin' TWICE. I used to play Spades very heavily and I have a strong mindset towards strategy, which is simply making choices with two or more things in mind and "working it" so that the worst case is a break-even. It's not like either of the points I made about the two scenarios required a PHD to see.

JTP53609
12-01-2009, 08:41 AM
i agree ruthless, i have no problem with the end of the game, they tried winning in regulation, i wish they would of been that aggressive at the end of the first half too, the end of the game may of been their only chance to win the game (based on if we lost the coin flip in OT), its ashame dixon looked like he was aiming the ball at the end of the game and he was thinking too much, he missed a few open recievers, but you will get that for a first career start,
the play calling was what got me on the last few possesions, and usually I will not complain over that issue, but you need to go with the strenghts of dixon and not worry about the strenghts of balitmore, use some running backs out of the backfield set up some simple dumps, the slants to double coverage hurt...

SteelAbility
12-01-2009, 09:19 AM
i agree ruthless, i have no problem with the end of the game, they tried winning in regulation, i wish they would of been that aggressive at the end of the first half too, the end of the game may of been their only chance to win the game (based on if we lost the coin flip in OT), its ashame dixon looked like he was aiming the ball at the end of the game and he was thinking too much, he missed a few open recievers, but you will get that for a first career start,
the play calling was what got me on the last few possesions, and usually I will not complain over that issue, but you need to go with the strenghts of dixon and not worry about the strenghts of balitmore, use some running backs out of the backfield set up some simple dumps, the slants to double coverage hurt...

You mean like his running ability? The question was whether or not we know more than the coaches. Well, here is another area where apparently we do know better. TWO runs :roll: all night for Dixon. Both were electric and effective (save for the holding on the first run). Ya think maybe having Dixon run more might have helped set up his passing game? Just maybe?

eniparadoxgma
12-01-2009, 06:27 PM
Unbelievable...Tomlin didn't know this rule? I've wanted to believe that he is a competent,
engaged head coach....maybe he is just a clueless figurehead, and maybe that explains why this team is falling apart and wasting the season...


I'm sure he will take full responsibility, as always, as we chalk another loss in the L-Column.

Thought you'd packed it in for the year? :)