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View Full Version : So who would be a good Offensive Cordinator? any names?



feelthesteel
11-18-2009, 03:47 PM
just curious?

ikestops85
11-18-2009, 03:55 PM
I loved Chan Gailey when he was here. He and Mularky were my favorites.

SteelCrazy
11-18-2009, 04:30 PM
any one not named Bruce...........They call me Bruce
http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f321/straightface72/bruce.jpg

Oviedo
11-18-2009, 04:56 PM
Amazing how we will see a list of names of potential OCs fired from their last positions because they weren't getting the job done to replace an OC who has a Top 10 offense :? :? :?

phillyesq
11-18-2009, 05:05 PM
I loved Chan Gailey when he was here. He and Mularky were my favorites.

I liked both those guys. Mularkey had a lot of creativity, and I'd have to think that with the talent the Steelers have on offense, mixing in something aside from traditional type plays might be quite effective. Run a few wildcat type plays with Hines at QB, or run an inside shuffle pass. Or perhaps give the ball to Logan on a bubble screen. I'm not advocating a total gadget offense, just mixing in a few different plays to keep the D off balance.

I like some of what Arians does. I think he passes out of the trips formation pretty well. His run/pass mix last week was atrocious, and at times, I think he really suffers from lack of imagination. I get quite frustrated with him at times, but watching the Browns game on Monday night, I realize that it could get a lot worse.

Chadman
11-18-2009, 05:46 PM
Sorry Philly, but Chadman doesn't understand anyone's fixation with a wildcat offence/option.

Do Indy run a wildcat?

Do New England run a wildcat?

Do New Orleans run a wildcat?

No?

You know why?

Because they have good QB's and don't need to hope & pray that trick plays work.

The Steelers have Ben- no need for a wildcat here.

_SteeL_CurtaiN_
11-18-2009, 05:47 PM
How about some guy named BEN, I have always hated the idea of an OC. The great QB's thru history have called their own plays, everytime Ben is calling the plays the offense seems more in synch, I believe that football players have a better feel for the game than OC's, granted some of them can be very effective, but wouldn't it stand to reason that a player would have a better feel for the flow of the game and what an appropriate play call is in any particular moment? I mean BA has got to be one disconnected MF'er to call games like he does there is no rythm to his calls for the most part.

phillyesq
11-18-2009, 06:03 PM
Sorry Philly, but Chadman doesn't understand anyone's fixation with a wildcat offence/option.

Do Indy run a wildcat?

Do New England run a wildcat?

Do New Orleans run a wildcat?

No?

You know why?

Because they have good QB's and don't need to hope & pray that trick plays work.

The Steelers have Ben- no need for a wildcat here.

Chadman, I'm actually not a huge fan of the wildcat. However, when the offense is just totally stagnant, like it was against the Bengals, a trick play, be it wildcat or otherwise, can help to shake things up. It also gives the defense something else to prepare for.

In 2005, the Steelers used trick plays very effectively. They had a big one against the bengals in the playoffs, and another in the SB. I don't think that the team should run an entire gimmick offense, but I'd like to see more creativity when things get stagnant.

BURGH86STEEL
11-18-2009, 06:55 PM
I don't think anyone has a real answer to that question. The only guy mentioned was Cam Cameron and his offense was worse then the Steelers against the Bengals. They had issues scoring against the Browns.

I am not one to put most of the blame on the coaches. So I will say that most of blame falls onto the players on the Ravens offense. Flacco started out well. Now that he is not playing well, the Ravens offense is struggling.

Mister Pittsburgh
11-18-2009, 07:30 PM
Amazing how we will see a list of names of potential OCs fired from their last positions because they weren't getting the job done to replace an OC who has a Top 10 offense :? :? :?

What is more amazing to me is that we statistically have a top 10 offense. We must really tear it up between the 20's.

By yards per game we are 9th, but by points scored we are 15th. Middle of the road...and points are all that matters. I think there are better OC out there that could do a better job with the talent we have on this offense. Available OC is a different question. If you look at the weapons we have on offense I think we easily match up against any team in the league with personel, but are somehow just middle of the road when it comes to putting up points.

All I can say is thank heavens we have a top 3 D or we might not have even made the playoffs last year (Cowboys win due to Deshea), and we might be sitting at .500 this year if it weren't for our D playing out their butts against Minny.

But yeah, Bruce Arians is the man. :roll:

isonator07
11-18-2009, 07:42 PM
Mike Martz :stirpot

steelz09
11-18-2009, 08:15 PM
Cam Cameron.

We had the opportunity to replace Arians with Cameron 2 years ago and Tomlin & Co blew it. I think that is definitely one blemish on Tomlins' successful (thus far) coaching career.

Then, the Ravens snagged him. I would love to see what Cam Cameron would do with the play calling with the Steelers.

As I stated in a previous post, I can't think of another offense in the league that has overall better offensive "skill" players than the Steelers. Sometimes, our offensive looks soo anemic that it looks like we have little too none quality skill position players which is the most frustrating thing.

jj28west
11-18-2009, 09:21 PM
My 1st choice are Shanahan who was deadly with Elway and made almost any RB a 1,000 yd rusher.

Second choice is Weiss from ND. I know ND seems to be under achieving but its their defense that is weak. Maybe he did cheat with the Pats but he was very agressive in his play calling and never seemed to play turtle ball.

Martz and Spurrier had a pass happy approach but the quarterback on many plays would not be protected and the plays take so long to develop that you would need an Oline like Dallas's back in the 90's.

Before I get blasted I know that responsibility lies on the players to the head coach but look back on the games we lost where we were inside the 25yard line. What was our TD to FG %?

IMO, an opportunity when we get inside the 10 and only come up with field goals is like missing four extra points. I feel it is that crucial.

I am not too proud. I say we copy some of the things that the Colts do. Suprisingly the Pats are poor this year probably because very little respect for the running game.

As a disclaimer I am not in the weekly team meetings for gameplan prep nor the huddle and in Ben's mind so I purely comment from a fan's perspective and am not claiming to be an expert situational play calling.

Mister Pittsburgh
11-18-2009, 10:11 PM
Weis? He only benefitted from illegal video provided to a man with a photographic memory in Ernie Adams. No former Bellicheat assistant has done squat.

sd steel
11-18-2009, 11:45 PM
I guarantee if we switch OC's, less than a year later there will be numerous threads on this site saying "The OC sucks", "our talent is too good not to have a top 3 offense", "I wish the OC would run more", "I wish the OC would pass more". "Why do we run the same plays over and over?" Why do we run up the middle when our receivers are always open?" "We need a new OC!" "So who would be a good OC?" Etc Etc Etc.

Yes I know, every single one of you football geniuses can call a better game than BA, thats why you all played so much football, and have been in the NFL for the last 20 years. Wait, most of you have never played, or coached in any capacity, yet you are way smarter than the guy who has made a living doing it and who is in the film room, and with the players everyday for 9 months out of the years.

It kind of reminds me of watching football with my Mom. It doesn't matter whether she was watching my games in Pop Warner, High School, or college, or if we are watching the games on Turkey day together, she will still always say, "These coaches are idiots, why do they always give the ball to the guy behind the big pile of guys, and why don't you, or which ever running back who is getting the ball just run around the pile?"

Obviously my Mom is a football genius like most of yinz. Why do they throw it deep when the short guy is open? Why do they run it left when the right side has no players there? I love fans, because they are so smart, and they can always tell you what you should have done, after the play.

I really don't care for Arians, but we have had success with him, and our offense is better this year than last, but if they fired him tomorrow it wouldn't matter, because we are going to eventuall y lose games, and our offense will be shut down on occassion no matter what plays are being called. Every play is designed to work, and every defense is doing everything it can to keep a play from working, it all comes down to the execution of the play. BA is a non factor on whether we are successful or not, and any OC put in that position would be about the same.

BURGH86STEEL
11-19-2009, 12:02 AM
I guarantee if we switch OC's, less than a year later there will be numerous threads on this site saying "The OC sucks", "our talent is too good not to have a top 3 offense", "I wish the OC would run more", "I wish the OC would pass more". "Why do we run the same plays over and over?" Why do we run up the middle when our receivers are always open?" "We need a new OC!" "So who would be a good OC?" Etc Etc Etc.

Yes I know, every single one of you football geniuses can call a better game than BA, thats why you all played so much football, and have been in the NFL for the last 20 years. Wait, most of you have never played, or coached in any capacity, yet you are way smarter than the guy who has made a living doing it and who is in the film room, and with the players everyday for 9 months out of the years.

It kind of reminds me of watching football with my Mom. It doesn't matter whether she was watching my games in Pop Warner, High School, or college, or if we are watching the games on Turkey day together, she will still always say, "These coaches are idiots, why do they always give the ball to the guy behind the big pile of guys, and why don't you, or which ever running back who is getting the ball just run around the pile?"

Obviously my Mom is a football genius like most of yinz. Why do they throw it deep when the short guy is open? Why do they run it left when the right side has no players there? I love fans, because they are so smart, and they can always tell you what you should have done, after the play.

I really don't care for Arians, but we have had success with him, and our offense is better this year than last, but if they fired him tomorrow it wouldn't matter, because we are going to eventuall y lose games, and our offense will be shut down on occassion no matter what plays are being called. Every play is designed to work, and every defense is doing everything it can to keep a play from working, it all comes down to the execution of the play. BA is a non factor on whether we are successful or not, and any OC put in that position would be about the same.

I agree that fans will complain about every OC. They always have and always will. Under Cowher, it was usually the OC or Cowher that people complained about. No one every agrees 100% of the time with the play calling. There are times I wonder why they called a particular play. No one knows what they saw or were thinking. It could be from a previous game or any number of factors. I am beyond getting upset over play calling.

I believe as you do that execution is the most important aspect of the game. When the players execute, coaches look smart. When the players stink it up, coaches look bad.

I don't know Arians to care for him or any OC around the league. I think he has done a good job with the offense. I will not say that BA is a non factor. I don't believe he is as big a factor as a lot of fans believe. Ben and this offense had some of the same issues under Whiz.

stlrz d
11-19-2009, 12:08 AM
I'm smart enough to see when a good play is called and fails because of poor player execution.

I'm also smart enough to see when a bad play is called.

So are a lot of people here.

:roll:

BURGH86STEEL
11-19-2009, 12:18 AM
I'm smart enough to see when a good play is called and fails because of poor player execution.

I'm also smart enough to see when a bad play is called.

So are a lot of people here.

:roll:

But are you smart enough to know why the play was called? Do you know if the original play call was changed? Can you always determine who was open and who was not? Do you know the protection calls on the Oline? Do you know when the WR's run option routes?

Dude, there are so many factors that go into a give play call. No no will agree 100% of the time with the play calling. Did you agree with every play that Whiz called?

sd steel
11-19-2009, 12:22 AM
I'm smart enough to see when a good play is called and fails because of poor player execution.

I'm also smart enough to see when a bad play is called.

So are a lot of people here.

:roll:

And you were one of the many geniuses I was talking about. :Cheers

Is it a bad play if it is successful? Do you know any of the options, check downs or audibles on the plays? Do you know the blocking assignments? If you practice a play over and over, and execute it perfectly, then run it against a defense that guesses or gets lucky and stops the play, is it still a good play?

There are too many unknowns regarding players, schemes, assignments etc for you to have a clue. You don't watch film, you aren't in the gameplanning sessions, you don't know who is performing in practice you don't know the adjustments the other team made or didn't make, yet you always know a good play call from a bad one? Why because we score and get first downs with the good ones, and we get sacked or lose yards with bad ones??

steelerkeylargo
11-19-2009, 12:24 AM
Mark Whipple-Our QB coach in 2005 and current Miami Hurricanes OC!!!!!!!

steelblood
11-19-2009, 08:30 AM
Amazing how we will see a list of names of potential OCs fired from their last positions because they weren't getting the job done to replace an OC who has a Top 10 offense :? :? :?

To be fair, there aren't any experienced coordinators currently available who haven't been fired.

steelblood
11-19-2009, 08:33 AM
Brian Kelley the Cincinnati coach really knows how to deal with QBs. He'd make an excellent NFL coordinator. But, the job may be too small for him as he'll likely get some offers to be the head coach of a big college program.

MeetJoeGreene
11-19-2009, 09:26 AM
Ain't gonna happen guys.

But if we want a list, here are some folks I like:


Gaily and Mularky (always liked them).

Norv Turner (after he is fired for losing in the first round again). He is a great OC, lousy HC.

Weiss. I think he is good at a offensive gameplan/playcalling (despite having video help in NE). I just worry that he would balloon up even more in the 'Burgh after he is introduced to Primanti Bros.

Oviedo
11-19-2009, 09:48 AM
Don't forget to factor in Ben's relationship with Arians. Ben and Arians seem to truly have an excellent working relationship and Ben has grown significantly under Arians' "way of doing business." Be careful about what you ask for because this is really Ben's show now. If you bring in a guy who has a different philosophy or has a personality clash with Ben then you could see a real trainwreck.

Mister Pittsburgh
11-19-2009, 02:22 PM
Ben loves Arians because Arians is the first OC to let him do what he wants. Whiz kept the bridle in Bens mouth and saddle on his back while Arians lets him wing it some of the time. Our offense has grown some under Arians from what it was under Whiz...but of course it did. Ben was a rookie through third year QB under Whiz where he is more experienced under Arians. Plus, how could our offense not grow once Cowher left. Cowhers whole career was run, run, pass other than the year the bus was hurt and we were left with famous amos and maddox.

Bottom line is you can blame the execution. You can say anti-Arians folks don't know the plays, don't know this or that......but all I say is do you think that our gameplans incorporate all the weapons we have at our disposal on Sundays? Are those weapons used the way they should be? Do we attack a teams weakness? And to all of those I say no. So if it is Ben changing plays to the wrong plays, it is the OC job to tell him to leave the plays as they are.....if Ben isn't changing the plays, then they are what Arians is calling and they are wrong.

Arians formations suck, his gameplans to attack a defense suck, just his whole approach blows. Sorry if you think he is great, but a lot of folks don't. YOu can say he was the OC of a Superbowl winning team, but if it was up to his offense, we don't even make the playoffs last year and would be .500 this year.

sd steel
11-19-2009, 02:32 PM
Ben loves Arians because Arians is the first OC to let him do what he wants. Whiz kept the bridle in Bens mouth and saddle on his back while Arians lets him wing it some of the time. Our offense has grown some under Arians from what it was under Whiz...but of course it did. Ben was a rookie through third year QB under Whiz where he is more experienced under Arians. Plus, how could our offense not grow once Cowher left. Cowhers whole career was run, run, pass other than the year the bus was hurt and we were left with famous amos and maddox.

Bottom line is you can blame the execution. You can say anti-Arians folks don't know the plays, don't know this or that......but all I say is do you think that our gameplans incorporate all the weapons we have at our disposal on Sundays? Are those weapons used the way they should be? Do we attack a teams weakness? And to all of those I say no. So if it is Ben changing plays to the wrong plays, it is the OC job to tell him to leave the plays as they are.....if Ben isn't changing the plays, then they are what Arians is calling and they are wrong.

Arians formations suck, his gameplans to attack a defense suck, just his whole approach blows. Sorry if you think he is great, but a lot of folks don't. YOu can say he was the OC of a Superbowl winning team, but if it was up to his offense, we don't even make the playoffs last year and would be .500 this year.


I am not an "Arians lover", in fact i don't care who the OC is as long as we win, that being said, I think it is short sited to blame Arians for every play call, formation, and offensive scheme. He is not the genius, the final say etc etc, Ben and Tomlin and I am sure a hand full of other coaches work on and sign off week in and week out. It is a group effort, and being that ben not only has to execute it, he is also signing off on it, when it doesn't work to the fans liking they should be pointing the finger at Ben.

papillon
11-19-2009, 02:32 PM
Bruce Arians, the Steelers are winning and are going to continue to win whether you believe he has anything to do with that success or not, the Steelers will not be replacing him.

Pappy

phillyesq
11-19-2009, 02:52 PM
I guarantee if we switch OC's, less than a year later there will be numerous threads on this site saying "The OC sucks", "our talent is too good not to have a top 3 offense", "I wish the OC would run more", "I wish the OC would pass more". "Why do we run the same plays over and over?" Why do we run up the middle when our receivers are always open?" "We need a new OC!" "So who would be a good OC?" Etc Etc Etc.

Yes I know, every single one of you football geniuses can call a better game than BA, thats why you all played so much football, and have been in the NFL for the last 20 years. Wait, most of you have never played, or coached in any capacity, yet you are way smarter than the guy who has made a living doing it and who is in the film room, and with the players everyday for 9 months out of the years.

It kind of reminds me of watching football with my Mom. It doesn't matter whether she was watching my games in Pop Warner, High School, or college, or if we are watching the games on Turkey day together, she will still always say, "These coaches are idiots, why do they always give the ball to the guy behind the big pile of guys, and why don't you, or which ever running back who is getting the ball just run around the pile?"

Obviously my Mom is a football genius like most of yinz. Why do they throw it deep when the short guy is open? Why do they run it left when the right side has no players there? I love fans, because they are so smart, and they can always tell you what you should have done, after the play.

I really don't care for Arians, but we have had success with him, and our offense is better this year than last, but if they fired him tomorrow it wouldn't matter, because we are going to eventuall y lose games, and our offense will be shut down on occassion no matter what plays are being called. Every play is designed to work, and every defense is doing everything it can to keep a play from working, it all comes down to the execution of the play. BA is a non factor on whether we are successful or not, and any OC put in that position would be about the same.

Um, I'm not sure I get where you are going here. Isn't a message board kind of a place for monday morning qbs to get together and talk about the team?

sd steel
11-19-2009, 03:24 PM
I guarantee if we switch OC's, less than a year later there will be numerous threads on this site saying "The OC sucks", "our talent is too good not to have a top 3 offense", "I wish the OC would run more", "I wish the OC would pass more". "Why do we run the same plays over and over?" Why do we run up the middle when our receivers are always open?" "We need a new OC!" "So who would be a good OC?" Etc Etc Etc.

Yes I know, every single one of you football geniuses can call a better game than BA, thats why you all played so much football, and have been in the NFL for the last 20 years. Wait, most of you have never played, or coached in any capacity, yet you are way smarter than the guy who has made a living doing it and who is in the film room, and with the players everyday for 9 months out of the years.

It kind of reminds me of watching football with my Mom. It doesn't matter whether she was watching my games in Pop Warner, High School, or college, or if we are watching the games on Turkey day together, she will still always say, "These coaches are idiots, why do they always give the ball to the guy behind the big pile of guys, and why don't you, or which ever running back who is getting the ball just run around the pile?"

Obviously my Mom is a football genius like most of yinz. Why do they throw it deep when the short guy is open? Why do they run it left when the right side has no players there? I love fans, because they are so smart, and they can always tell you what you should have done, after the play.

I really don't care for Arians, but we have had success with him, and our offense is better this year than last, but if they fired him tomorrow it wouldn't matter, because we are going to eventuall y lose games, and our offense will be shut down on occassion no matter what plays are being called. Every play is designed to work, and every defense is doing everything it can to keep a play from working, it all comes down to the execution of the play. BA is a non factor on whether we are successful or not, and any OC put in that position would be about the same.

Um, I'm not sure I get where you are going here. Isn't a message board kind of a place for monday morning qbs to get together and talk about the team?

Yes it is, but I am just trying to open some eyes regarding who to blame. I think Arians is an easy scapegoat when things are going bad, and even good, but he is not the only guy with his hand in the offense. If you are blaming BA you have to blame Ben as well.

Oviedo
11-19-2009, 03:52 PM
[quote="sd steel":1v6z9ft4]I guarantee if we switch OC's, less than a year later there will be numerous threads on this site saying "The OC sucks", "our talent is too good not to have a top 3 offense", "I wish the OC would run more", "I wish the OC would pass more". "Why do we run the same plays over and over?" Why do we run up the middle when our receivers are always open?" "We need a new OC!" "So who would be a good OC?" Etc Etc Etc.

Yes I know, every single one of you football geniuses can call a better game than BA, thats why you all played so much football, and have been in the NFL for the last 20 years. Wait, most of you have never played, or coached in any capacity, yet you are way smarter than the guy who has made a living doing it and who is in the film room, and with the players everyday for 9 months out of the years.

It kind of reminds me of watching football with my Mom. It doesn't matter whether she was watching my games in Pop Warner, High School, or college, or if we are watching the games on Turkey day together, she will still always say, "These coaches are idiots, why do they always give the ball to the guy behind the big pile of guys, and why don't you, or which ever running back who is getting the ball just run around the pile?"

Obviously my Mom is a football genius like most of yinz. Why do they throw it deep when the short guy is open? Why do they run it left when the right side has no players there? I love fans, because they are so smart, and they can always tell you what you should have done, after the play.

I really don't care for Arians, but we have had success with him, and our offense is better this year than last, but if they fired him tomorrow it wouldn't matter, because we are going to eventuall y lose games, and our offense will be shut down on occassion no matter what plays are being called. Every play is designed to work, and every defense is doing everything it can to keep a play from working, it all comes down to the execution of the play. BA is a non factor on whether we are successful or not, and any OC put in that position would be about the same.

Um, I'm not sure I get where you are going here. Isn't a message board kind of a place for monday morning qbs to get together and talk about the team?

Yes it is, but I am just trying to open some eyes regarding who to blame. I think Arians is an easy scapegoat when things are going bad, and even good, but he is not the only guy with his hand in the offense. If you are blaming BA you have to blame Ben as well.[/quote:1v6z9ft4]

Coaches don't have jerseys like players that fans buy so of course it is easy to blame the coach versus the player whose jersey you just dropped $100+ to buy. You look kinda stupid criticizing someone whose jersey you are wearing.

Again, I think it is great to have so many knowledeable football experts who just decided they didn't want a job in the NFL and decided that their <$75K a year job is better than being a coach in the NFL or could it be the critics really lack qualififcations...nah can't be.

JTP53609
11-19-2009, 04:14 PM
bruce arians isn't bad....i know that when our players dont execute it is all his fault, but when they do than we dont mention him...i agree the 40-16 pass to run ratio last game was bad, but he has not been that bad this year overall

Mister Pittsburgh
11-19-2009, 05:10 PM
Too funny. If you don't have a job in the NFL then you have no business criticizing. So unless you work in the NFL you should only come on this board to talk about block numbers on jerseys and the like. What a bunch of fluffers.

Say what you will. Criticize my opinion all you like. Although I am not an NFL coach, I do know that Bruce Arians is not a good OC. The fact that he had ZERO interviews as the Superbowl winning OC should clue you in. When is the last time any of you saw the winning OC have ZERO interviews post Superbowl?

BURGH86STEEL
11-19-2009, 05:36 PM
Too funny. If you don't have a job in the NFL then you have no business criticizing. So unless you work in the NFL you should only come on this board to talk about block numbers on jerseys and the like. What a bunch of fluffers.

Say what you will. Criticize my opinion all you like. Although I am not an NFL coach, I do know that Bruce Arians is not a good OC. The fact that he had ZERO interviews as the Superbowl winning OC should clue you in. When is the last time any of you saw the winning OC have ZERO interviews post Superbowl?

Arians may not be the best OC but he is doing a good job. How many interviews did Lebeau have? Just because Arians did not get any interviews did not mean anything. Since when did getting interviewed for HC job after a SB win become a measuring stick for an OC? I've never heard of such an idea. If the Steelers went by that logic, they would had never hired Cowher or Tomlin.

Some coaches are not meant to be head coaches. Arians and Lebeau are two of those coaches and there are others. That is really what it boils down to.

flippy
11-19-2009, 05:40 PM
I do think it's fair criticism that we didn't stick with trying to run against the Bengals. Then again we didn't convert on 3rd downs which hurts continuity.

Chadman
11-19-2009, 05:58 PM
Without claiming to know all the answers, Chadman would like to point out that the success of any offense is heavily reliant on the success of the hogs up front. If you have an O-Line that doesn't give up sacks, penalties & also opens running lanes for your RB, then you more than likely have a successful offense. If you add a QB that is halfway decent to that, then you generally get a high-powered offense.

Now, despite an improvement this season, the Steelers O-Line during the "Arians Era" can hardly be called good. Even competant can be argued.

In Chadman's opinion, it's not that the O-Line players are bad so much, but that they have not been selected to fit the Zone Blocking system incorporated by Larry Z.

And therein lies the problem. The O-Line has not adapted to Zone Blocking as well as hoped, handcuffing the offenses efforts for slow developing plays, and also taking away a consistant running game (until Mendenhall clicked). When you can't run consistantly, and your QB runs for his life more than he does for a sneaky 1st down, it's hard to produce an offense that people consider 'good'. Some will argue that Arians needs to adapt his play calling to suit the time given by the O-Line- and that is true. But it is difficult to pinpoint where it's poor play calling & where it's poor QB decision making without knowing what each individual play was called & designed to accomplish.

Is Arians great? Probably not. But until the O-Line goes from passable play to good play, Chadman doubts we'll ever see the truth of it.

RuthlessBurgher
11-19-2009, 08:05 PM
Too funny. If you don't have a job in the NFL then you have no business criticizing. So unless you work in the NFL you should only come on this board to talk about block numbers on jerseys and the like. What a bunch of fluffers.

Say what you will. Criticize my opinion all you like. Although I am not an NFL coach, I do know that Bruce Arians is not a good OC. The fact that he had ZERO interviews as the Superbowl winning OC should clue you in. When is the last time any of you saw the winning OC have ZERO interviews post Superbowl?

Arians may not be the best OC but he is doing a good job. How many interviews did Lebeau have? Just because Arians did not get any interviews did not mean anything. Since when did getting interviewed for HC job after a SB win become a measuring stick for an OC? I've never heard of such an idea. If the Steelers went by that logic, they would had never hired Cowher or Tomlin.

Some coaches are not meant to be head coaches. Arians and Lebeau are two of those coaches and there are others. That is really what it boils down to.

Let's look at the head coaches who have been hired over the past few years and their current ages.

Raheem Morris 33
Josh McDaniels 33
Mike Tomlin 37
Eric Mangini 38
Todd Haley 42
Jim Schwartz 43
Tom Cable 44
Rex Ryan 46
Perry Fewell 47
John Harbaugh 47
Ken Whisenhunt 47
Jim Mora Jr. 48
Tony Sparano 48
Stave Spagnuolo 49
Mike Smith 50
Mike Singletary 51
Jim Caldwell 54
Jim Zorn 56

Now let's look at Arians and LeBeau. They are 57 and 72 years old, respectively.

It is apparant that most owners are looking for the next young hotshot instead of greybeards that are receiving AARP mailings. In fact, Sports Guy Bill Simmons came up with a Speed Limit Coaching Corollary (If the coach of your favorite team is older than 55, or if your team is about to hire someone who's older than 55, there's a good chance you should start preparing for a frustrating stretch of football), and this was written before all of the guys I listed above were hired by their current team.

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story?page=simmons/070112

And if they wanted to skew a bit older to get a guy with experience, they would likely prefer one of these Super Bowl winning coaches who may be available for the right price, over old guys with minimal head coaching experience like Arians or LeBeau.

Jon Gruden 46
Bill Cowher 52
Tony Dungy 54
Brian Billick 55
Mike Shanahan 57
Mike Holmgren 61

Mister Pittsburgh
11-19-2009, 08:52 PM
Too funny. If you don't have a job in the NFL then you have no business criticizing. So unless you work in the NFL you should only come on this board to talk about block numbers on jerseys and the like. What a bunch of fluffers.

Say what you will. Criticize my opinion all you like. Although I am not an NFL coach, I do know that Bruce Arians is not a good OC. The fact that he had ZERO interviews as the Superbowl winning OC should clue you in. When is the last time any of you saw the winning OC have ZERO interviews post Superbowl?

Arians may not be the best OC but he is doing a good job. How many interviews did Lebeau have? Just because Arians did not get any interviews did not mean anything. Since when did getting interviewed for HC job after a SB win become a measuring stick for an OC? I've never heard of such an idea. If the Steelers went by that logic, they would had never hired Cowher or Tomlin.

Some coaches are not meant to be head coaches. Arians and Lebeau are two of those coaches and there are others. That is really what it boils down to.

Look man...I know your M.O.
I have yet to see one negative post from you on this forum unless it is negative toward another poster who is being negative. That is fine and that is your thing. I just look at the talent we have on this offense and then look at how the offense performs. Last year we wouldn't have made the playoffs if it weren't for out defense being totally dominant. This year we would be .500 at best if it weren't for our defense. Doesn't make sense for us to be near the middle of the pack in scoring with the weapons we have.

You can blame execution if you wish. That is fine. But I don't see it that way. There are a lot of people that don't see it that way. If you are facing a top 5 run defense that has 4 rookies in the secondary and run it 75% of the time and struggle, is it the execution of your running plays that you blame or the fact that you were a tool and ran 75% of the time?

If you have a WR that caught almost 80 passes for 1000 yards but you don't dress him, a 6'7" 270lb pass catching TE, a top pass catching RB in Moore, and they don't even come into the equation on sundays......is that good coaching? I mean you want to talk about red zone problems and don't even throw the ball once all season on a designed play to your 6'7" TE once? What play was it that scored the first TD for the Cardinals in the Superbowl against our top defense in the redzone? Oh yeah, a jump pass to their TE matched up against a smaller defender! You go 4 wide but the 7 year vet that caught 80 passes for almost 1000 yards isn't even on the field but your 2nd round pick that can't catch is! Your 3rd down back who is known for, and excels at catching passes out of the backfield and has 2 catches in his past 4 games.

These are weapons that Arians has at his disposal and could include in the gameplan each weak. Instead we continue to struggle with the same stuff we did last year. You can claim that Bruce is good because we won with him. I say he isn't, and we have won in spite of him. If we relied on his strategic gameplans last year we don't even make the playoffs and this year we may not even be .500.

BURGH86STEEL
11-19-2009, 09:02 PM
I do think it's fair criticism that we didn't stick with trying to run against the Bengals. Then again we didn't convert on 3rd downs which hurts continuity.


You are right. Having a 20% success rate hurt their opportunities to run the ball more. Even with that deficiency, they made it into the red zone 4 times. If they had run the ball more and continued to get 2.7 yards per rush from Mendenhall, some people would have issues with running the football.

The easy solution to the problem is for the players to play better.

sd steel
11-19-2009, 09:02 PM
[quote="Mister Pittsburgh":2ez0tmre]Too funny. If you don't have a job in the NFL then you have no business criticizing. So unless you work in the NFL you should only come on this board to talk about block numbers on jerseys and the like. What a bunch of fluffers.

Say what you will. Criticize my opinion all you like. Although I am not an NFL coach, I do know that Bruce Arians is not a good OC. The fact that he had ZERO interviews as the Superbowl winning OC should clue you in. When is the last time any of you saw the winning OC have ZERO interviews post Superbowl?

Arians may not be the best OC but he is doing a good job. How many interviews did Lebeau have? Just because Arians did not get any interviews did not mean anything. Since when did getting interviewed for HC job after a SB win become a measuring stick for an OC? I've never heard of such an idea. If the Steelers went by that logic, they would had never hired Cowher or Tomlin.

Some coaches are not meant to be head coaches. Arians and Lebeau are two of those coaches and there are others. That is really what it boils down to.

Look man...I know your M.O.
I have yet to see one negative post from you on this forum unless it is negative toward another poster who is being negative. That is fine and that is your thing. I just look at the talent we have on this offense and then look at how the offense performs. Last year we wouldn't have made the playoffs if it weren't for out defense being totally dominant. This year we would be .500 at best if it weren't for our defense. Doesn't make sense for us to be near the middle of the pack in scoring with the weapons we have.

You can blame execution if you wish. That is fine. But I don't see it that way. There are a lot of people that don't see it that way. If you are facing a top 5 run defense that has 4 rookies in the secondary and run it 75% of the time and struggle, is it the execution of your running plays that you blame or the fact that you were a tool and ran 75% of the time?

If you have a WR that caught almost 80 passes for 1000 yards but you don't dress him, a 6'7" 270lb pass catching TE, a top pass catching RB in Moore, and they don't even come into the equation on sundays......is that good coaching? I mean you want to talk about red zone problems and don't even throw the ball once all season on a designed play to your 6'7" TE once? What play was it that scored the first TD for the Cardinals in the Superbowl against our top defense in the redzone? Oh yeah, a jump pass to their TE matched up against a smaller defender! You go 4 wide but the 7 year vet that caught 80 passes for almost 1000 yards isn't even on the field but your 2nd round pick that can't catch is! Your 3rd down back who is known for, and excels at catching passes out of the backfield and has 2 catches in his past 4 games.

These are weapons that Arians has at his disposal and could include in the gameplan each weak. Instead we continue to struggle with the same stuff we did last year. You can claim that Bruce is good because we won with him. I say he isn't, and we have won in spite of him. If we relied on his strategic gameplans last year we don't even make the playoffs and this year we may not even be .500.[/quote:2ez0tmre]

So in your opinion Arians decides all offensive personnel decisions, all play calls, and does all the game planning alone? He decides all the formations that we run and when we run them, and he is the one who decides who is on the field at all times?

If this is all correct, then you can blame BA for the offense, and him alone. I just don't think he has that much control.

RuthlessBurgher
11-19-2009, 09:32 PM
I have yet to see one negative post from you on this forum unless it is negative toward another poster who is being negative.

Whoa...that's like a triple negative. I'm all confewzled now. :lol:

Mister Pittsburgh
11-19-2009, 09:43 PM
[quote=BURGH86STEEL][quote="Mister Pittsburgh":20jey5bq]Too funny. If you don't have a job in the NFL then you have no business criticizing. So unless you work in the NFL you should only come on this board to talk about block numbers on jerseys and the like. What a bunch of fluffers.

Say what you will. Criticize my opinion all you like. Although I am not an NFL coach, I do know that Bruce Arians is not a good OC. The fact that he had ZERO interviews as the Superbowl winning OC should clue you in. When is the last time any of you saw the winning OC have ZERO interviews post Superbowl?

Arians may not be the best OC but he is doing a good job. How many interviews did Lebeau have? Just because Arians did not get any interviews did not mean anything. Since when did getting interviewed for HC job after a SB win become a measuring stick for an OC? I've never heard of such an idea. If the Steelers went by that logic, they would had never hired Cowher or Tomlin.

Some coaches are not meant to be head coaches. Arians and Lebeau are two of those coaches and there are others. That is really what it boils down to.

Look man...I know your M.O.
I have yet to see one negative post from you on this forum unless it is negative toward another poster who is being negative. That is fine and that is your thing. I just look at the talent we have on this offense and then look at how the offense performs. Last year we wouldn't have made the playoffs if it weren't for out defense being totally dominant. This year we would be .500 at best if it weren't for our defense. Doesn't make sense for us to be near the middle of the pack in scoring with the weapons we have.

You can blame execution if you wish. That is fine. But I don't see it that way. There are a lot of people that don't see it that way. If you are facing a top 5 run defense that has 4 rookies in the secondary and run it 75% of the time and struggle, is it the execution of your running plays that you blame or the fact that you were a tool and ran 75% of the time?

If you have a WR that caught almost 80 passes for 1000 yards but you don't dress him, a 6'7" 270lb pass catching TE, a top pass catching RB in Moore, and they don't even come into the equation on sundays......is that good coaching? I mean you want to talk about red zone problems and don't even throw the ball once all season on a designed play to your 6'7" TE once? What play was it that scored the first TD for the Cardinals in the Superbowl against our top defense in the redzone? Oh yeah, a jump pass to their TE matched up against a smaller defender! You go 4 wide but the 7 year vet that caught 80 passes for almost 1000 yards isn't even on the field but your 2nd round pick that can't catch is! Your 3rd down back who is known for, and excels at catching passes out of the backfield and has 2 catches in his past 4 games.

These are weapons that Arians has at his disposal and could include in the gameplan each weak. Instead we continue to struggle with the same stuff we did last year. You can claim that Bruce is good because we won with him. I say he isn't, and we have won in spite of him. If we relied on his strategic gameplans last year we don't even make the playoffs and this year we may not even be .500.[/quote:20jey5bq]

So in your opinion Arians decides all offensive personnel decisions, all play calls, and does all the game planning alone? He decides all the formations that we run and when we run them, and he is the one who decides who is on the field at all times?

If this is all correct, then you can blame BA for the offense, and him alone. I just don't think he has that much control.[/quote:20jey5bq]

I think he does. Tomlin honestly seems pretty hands off and lets the coordinators do their thing. The cases I stated for unused or limited use players, well those guys are on the field already so he could use them. As for McDonald vs. Sweed, I am sure he could pull the trigger on that switch.

It goes deeper for me than just looking at gamefilm from Arians gameplans too. Go read the guys interviews. They are just flat out confusing. He doesn't like the no huddle cause it takes away from play action? Really? I mean it is almost to the point it seems that any play that works he throws in the trash. Sprint draws worked, haven't seen them. Quick timing pattern type slants to Holmes work all the time....haven't seen one in a long time even though defenses have been taking way the deep pass on the outside and have been bringing their LB. The only time I have seen Sweed successful in black and gold was in teh preseason when he was running patterns 5 to 15 yards deep over the middle in the preseason. Dude was catching everything and taking punishment and holding onto the ball. Looked like a real NFL receiver. Haven't seen that this entire year. All passes to Sweed are passes out in the flats or 30 yards downfield. The guy just doesn't make sense.

I have used this analogy before and think it is true......if Bruce Arians was a pitching coach in MLB and was calling the pitches from the dugout, he would just be flipping a coin for his pitch selection instead of seeing a hitters weakness and attacking him or setting hitters up at all. He wouldn't throw the slider outside to come back with the heat on the inside....he would throw the slider outside to set up the slider outside.

BURGH86STEEL
11-19-2009, 09:47 PM
[quote="Mister Pittsburgh":44ml9jih]Too funny. If you don't have a job in the NFL then you have no business criticizing. So unless you work in the NFL you should only come on this board to talk about block numbers on jerseys and the like. What a bunch of fluffers.

Say what you will. Criticize my opinion all you like. Although I am not an NFL coach, I do know that Bruce Arians is not a good OC. The fact that he had ZERO interviews as the Superbowl winning OC should clue you in. When is the last time any of you saw the winning OC have ZERO interviews post Superbowl?

Arians may not be the best OC but he is doing a good job. How many interviews did Lebeau have? Just because Arians did not get any interviews did not mean anything. Since when did getting interviewed for HC job after a SB win become a measuring stick for an OC? I've never heard of such an idea. If the Steelers went by that logic, they would had never hired Cowher or Tomlin.

Some coaches are not meant to be head coaches. Arians and Lebeau are two of those coaches and there are others. That is really what it boils down to.

Look man...I know your M.O.
I have yet to see one negative post from you on this forum unless it is negative toward another poster who is being negative. That is fine and that is your thing. I just look at the talent we have on this offense and then look at how the offense performs. Last year we wouldn't have made the playoffs if it weren't for out defense being totally dominant. This year we would be .500 at best if it weren't for our defense. Doesn't make sense for us to be near the middle of the pack in scoring with the weapons we have.

You can blame execution if you wish. That is fine. But I don't see it that way. There are a lot of people that don't see it that way. If you are facing a top 5 run defense that has 4 rookies in the secondary and run it 75% of the time and struggle, is it the execution of your running plays that you blame or the fact that you were a tool and ran 75% of the time?

If you have a WR that caught almost 80 passes for 1000 yards but you don't dress him, a 6'7" 270lb pass catching TE, a top pass catching RB in Moore, and they don't even come into the equation on sundays......is that good coaching? I mean you want to talk about red zone problems and don't even throw the ball once all season on a designed play to your 6'7" TE once? What play was it that scored the first TD for the Cardinals in the Superbowl against our top defense in the redzone? Oh yeah, a jump pass to their TE matched up against a smaller defender! You go 4 wide but the 7 year vet that caught 80 passes for almost 1000 yards isn't even on the field but your 2nd round pick that can't catch is! Your 3rd down back who is known for, and excels at catching passes out of the backfield and has 2 catches in his past 4 games.

These are weapons that Arians has at his disposal and could include in the gameplan each weak. Instead we continue to struggle with the same stuff we did last year. You can claim that Bruce is good because we won with him. I say he isn't, and we have won in spite of him. If we relied on his strategic gameplans last year we don't even make the playoffs and this year we may not even be .500.[/quote:44ml9jih]

I guess it is not so much that people are negative. Usually, fans direct their anger at the wrong person. In a team game like football, there is usually more then one culprit. The fact that people lean HEAVILY on the OC when it was clear that Ben stunk (is that negative?) is wrong. No OC could over come Ben's performance on Sunday. The run game could not over come his performance. They had performances like this under Whiz. Those performances were usually because the players did not execute. People are so set on destroying Arians' credibility that it clouds their judgement.

That's why the Steelers know that having a good defense is paramount. A good defense will always keep the team in most games. The offense and special teams contributed to the wins and losses. It's a team game. This team could easily be undefeated if the players made a few more plays. I am sure that can be said for every team around the league.

There were a lot of times that the QB and weapons we have came up short. They made a lot of mistakes the kept points off the board. There were several missed opportunities. We can sit here and nit pick about where we think the offense should be and so on. It is where it is right now. The are showing improvement and playing better then last season.

This is a problem fans have, "6'7" 270lb pass catching TE, a top pass catching RB in Moore, and they don't even come into the equation on sundays......is that good coaching? I mean you want to talk about red zone problems and don't even throw the ball once all season on a designed play to your 6'7" How do you know where the plays were designed to go? What if Ben does not make the throws? The bottom line is we don't know where the plays were designed to go. Can you tell me on any given play were the ball was supposed to go?

Dude, a lot of the problems with this offense go back to how the Oline and QB performs. Offenses are mostly about how QB's perform. This is not a popular statement but it's the truth. Is it a fair statement to say that Ben does not always read defenses well? There are other short comings in Ben's game that keep him from being a better QB. Those short comings show up at times. It seems the fans really see that their is a direct correlation between the number of sacks Ben takes and how long he holds onto the football.

Ben is in on the game planning. So, that means they design plays that Ben likes to run. There are other factors to consider. I just don't know how to over come the single mindedness of fans. They have it hell bent that our OC is the main problem with the offense. I don't see it that way. I know that if they change the OC tomorrow and the offense continues to have some of the same issues, who will fans blame then? The new OC, Tomlin? Or will fans look at where the blame really lays, the players?

stlrz d
11-19-2009, 10:07 PM
So in your opinion Arians decides all offensive personnel decisions, all play calls, and does all the game planning alone? He decides all the formations that we run and when we run them, and he is the one who decides who is on the field at all times?

If this is all correct, then you can blame BA for the offense, and him alone. I just don't think he has that much control.

He may not do it alone, but that's what an OC does.

Djfan
11-19-2009, 11:12 PM
Wow. This thread. I just know.

I guess from it that we can't be critics because we don't work in the NFL coaching staff. We can't criticize BA because we aren't in the meetings or on the the sidelines. We can't criticize players because we have their jerseys.

The logic here is amazing.

Anyone ever criticize a movie? A restaurant? A politician? Just wondering.

It doesn't take a genius to understand that when something isn't working you change it to something else. It doesn't take a genius to understand that when the first three legit weapons are not getting it done, you try the next few. It doesn't take a genius to understand that when you go to the no back set, the opposing D can take guys from the run D and commit them to the pass or blitz D.

Seems simple to me.

BURGH86STEEL
11-19-2009, 11:41 PM
Wow. This thread. I just know.

I guess from it that we can't be critics because we don't work in the NFL coaching staff. We can't criticize BA because we aren't in the meetings or on the the sidelines. We can't criticize players because we have their jerseys.

The logic here is amazing.

Anyone ever criticize a movie? A restaurant? A politician? Just wondering.

It doesn't take a genius to understand that when something isn't working you change it to something else. It doesn't take a genius to understand that when the first three legit weapons are not getting it done, you try the next few. It doesn't take a genius to understand that when you go to the no back set, the opposing D can take guys from the run D and commit them to the pass or blitz D.

Seems simple to me.

You are right, the logic from fans is amazing. I think if one is going to be a critic, they should criticize the right people/person. It is one thing to criticize, it is another thing to call for a guys job. People want Arians gone because he does not call perfect games. Show me an OC that calls perfect games? We can go around the league and see flaws in play calling from every team.

It is difficult to criticize the play calling when we don't know all the details. ie when Ben changes the calls. Difficult to know who the primary WR is on a given play. Yet, we have people question why the ball does not go to Heath, the RB's, or any other player. Ultimately, the buck stops with Ben in the decision making area.

It does not take a genius to figure out that when the QB is having a bad game there is not much the coaching staff can do about it. Yet, some fans find a reason to blame Arians for Ben's struggles. I assume the coaches hope was that Ben would play himself out of a bad game. It happened that way in Denver. It did not happen that way against the Bengals.

I assume they run the RB out of the back field for a reason. Maybe they hope to catch the defense slipping? Create a mis match? Set something up for later? We simply do not know why they do it. Even if it is not clear to the fans, I am sure there is a reason behind it.

Djfan
11-20-2009, 12:10 AM
It is difficult to criticize the play calling when we don't know all the details.

I just can't agree with this. My guess is that you criticize things the Steelers do all the time. But if not, you have a brain, and can make assesments. If not, why not? The rest of the human race criticizes things all the time, often poorly, often well. If you think that any play at all could be called and it's all on the players to execute, then I have no idea where to meet you idea wise. Strategy falls squarely on the shoulders of the OC. Ignoring players, technics, play adjustments, etc., that have worked for us in the recent past is bad strategy if the current strategy is not working.

ie when Ben changes the calls. Difficult to know who the primary WR is on a given play. Yet, we have people question why the ball does not go to Heath, the RB's, or any other player. Ultimately, the buck stops with Ben in the decision making area.

Nope. BA is Ben's boss. If not then Tomlin needs to get real, or we are in store for a huge structural melt down soon.


It does not take a genius to figure out that when the QB is having a bad game there is not much the coaching staff can do about it.

Yeah there is. How about quicker developing pass plays that are short and are built for the YAC? Or return to the run game that works for us? Move the pocket? The real difficulty is justifying who and OC doesn't bust a QB's chops if his audibles are not working consistantly. That's what a boss does. Just a thought.


I assume they run the RB out of the back field for a reason. Maybe they hope to catch the defense slipping? Create a mis match? Set something up for later? We simply do not know why they do it. Even if it is not clear to the fans, I am sure there is a reason behind it.

My .02

sd steel
11-20-2009, 12:12 AM
[quote="sd steel":lrmu5fmh]
So in your opinion Arians decides all offensive personnel decisions, all play calls, and does all the game planning alone? He decides all the formations that we run and when we run them, and he is the one who decides who is on the field at all times?

If this is all correct, then you can blame BA for the offense, and him alone. I just don't think he has that much control.

He may not do it alone, but that's what an OC does.[/quote:lrmu5fmh]

Although there are a few OC's with total power, but BA ain't one of them. And I know Ben wields more power than BA, as does Tomlin. BA holds the script finds the down and distance and chooses a predecided play with a predecided formation depending on down distance and situation.

Like I said before, even if you fire BA it's not gonna change this offense, because Ben controls it. The reason why BA is there is because he doesn't question Ben's decisions. If he did he would be fired. Only one person / coach has more power than Ben, and that is Tomlin. Both were basically handpicked by the Rooney's. BA is a puppet who reads the plastic sheet.

Djfan
11-20-2009, 12:21 AM
Although there are a few OC's with total power, but BA ain't one of them. And I know Ben wields more power than BA, as does Tomlin. BA holds the script finds the down and distance and chooses a predecided play with a predecided formation depending on down distance and situation.

Like I said before, even if you fire BA it's not gonna change this offense, because Ben controls it. The reason why BA is there is because he doesn't question Ben's decisions. If he did he would be fired. Only one person / coach has more power than Ben, and that is Tomlin. Both were basically handpicked by the Rooney's. BA is a puppet who reads the plastic sheet.


SD - we have communicated well in the past IMO, so I ask this of you honestly. How do you know that BA just looks at the script depending on stuff? How do you know Ben holds his jock? How do you know that the only reason BA is there is because Ben gave his continued blessings?

My point is that when observers of BA say that they don't like him, the defense around here is that no one can really know the assumptions made by the anti-BA crowd. So, I make the same question to you, do you REALLY know this? If so, how? You consult Rooney? Tomlin?

I just want you to see that the logic works both ways - you make assumptions bases on your observations of this situation, filtered by your football experience. So do the anti-BA folks. To date, I havent' seen too much lame logic with that crowd.

pfelix73
11-20-2009, 12:38 AM
I would hire Steve Logan, current RB's coach of the TB Bucs. He is/was a super coach in college and knows offense and the passing game. Ben would love him as a coach. His nickname at ECU was the riverboat gambler. Boy, can he call a game- he's gonna get his shot in the NFL as an OC.......

QB's he has had under him:

Jeff Blake
David Garrard
Matt Ryan


http://smartfootball.blogspot.com/2009/ ... icals.html (http://smartfootball.blogspot.com/2009/04/steve-logan-on-four-verticals.html)
:tt1

SteelCrazy
11-20-2009, 12:46 AM
[quote="stlrz d":1n6bheyy][quote="sd steel":1n6bheyy]
So in your opinion Arians decides all offensive personnel decisions, all play calls, and does all the game planning alone? He decides all the formations that we run and when we run them, and he is the one who decides who is on the field at all times?

If this is all correct, then you can blame BA for the offense, and him alone. I just don't think he has that much control.

He may not do it alone, but that's what an OC does.[/quote:1n6bheyy]

Although there are a few OC's with total power, but BA ain't one of them. And I know Ben wields more power than BA, as does Tomlin. BA holds the script finds the down and distance and chooses a predecided play with a predecided formation depending on down distance and situation.

Like I said before, even if you fire BA it's not gonna change this offense, because Ben controls it. The reason why BA is there is because he doesn't question Ben's decisions. If he did he would be fired. Only one person / coach has more power than Ben, and that is Tomlin. Both were basically handpicked by the Rooney's. BA is a puppet who reads the plastic sheet.[/quote:1n6bheyy]

If changing OC's doesn't change a thing, why do they get fired? Because they are bad at math and can't determine down and distance.....Try again Bruce Jr.

sd steel
11-20-2009, 01:25 AM
Although there are a few OC's with total power, but BA ain't one of them. And I know Ben wields more power than BA, as does Tomlin. BA holds the script finds the down and distance and chooses a predecided play with a predecided formation depending on down distance and situation.

Like I said before, even if you fire BA it's not gonna change this offense, because Ben controls it. The reason why BA is there is because he doesn't question Ben's decisions. If he did he would be fired. Only one person / coach has more power than Ben, and that is Tomlin. Both were basically handpicked by the Rooney's. BA is a puppet who reads the plastic sheet.


SD - we have communicated well in the past IMO, so I ask this of you honestly. How do you know that BA just looks at the script depending on stuff? How do you know Ben holds his jock? How do you know that the only reason BA is there is because Ben gave his continued blessings?

My point is that when observers of BA say that they don't like him, the defense around here is that no one can really know the assumptions made by the anti-BA crowd. So, I make the same question to you, do you REALLY know this? If so, how? You consult Rooney? Tomlin?

I just want you to see that the logic works both ways - you make assumptions bases on your observations of this situation, filtered by your football experience. So do the anti-BA folks. To date, I havent' seen too much lame logic with that crowd.

DJ, there are a couple of reasons why I feel this way. Do I know for certain, no but I'm about 99% sure. Ben's biggest gripe under Cowher and Whiz was that they would not let him do what he wanted to do. Even after Whiz went to AZ, Ben made comments about how they kept the reigns on him. Tomlin gets hired, and instead of bringing in his own OC, he promotes the WR coach BA. BA knows the offense, and has been an OC before, but it is easy to see that he is not a leader, his track record proves it. (Another reason why he doesn't get looked at for HC positions). He is basically installed to mentor the teams biggest asset, redevelop the current offense to Ben's liking with Ben, and turn him into Peyton Manning, who he was the QB coach for when manning started.

The Rooney's want to keep their Wonder boy happy, and at the same time let him become our Peyton Manning under the tutelage of Mannings first mentor. If they brought in another OC chances are that he would have changed the offense, because Tomlin didn't have his own, and it would have been a set back for the offense and the organization, especially because ben is getting comfortable with the Offense after a couple of years, and some have said he is not the hardest worker or the smartest guy in the classroom.

BA befriends Ben during the off season, and they work on the play book together to add what Ben likes, and get rid of what he doesn't. He basically dictates what plays and what formations he wants.

Ben goes to the Media and says he wants a big receiver, do we really need a receiver with Holmes, Hines, and Nate? No, but the organization picks Sweed in the second round, when they probably could have used an o or d lineman. Then the Rooney's invest $100 million in Ben. I bet BA doesn't make half a million. Yet you all want to think that they let BA have the keys to the Ferrari? Ben has the keys, and they want him to be Peyton, and he is still learning how to drive.

It was great winning the Super Bowl last year, and talentwise we should be close for the next 3 or 4 years, but it solidified the fact that Ben will stay in control of the offense, and Bruce will be reading the sheet on the sideline. It's already been stated that ben calls 40% of his own plays, the first 10 to 20 plays are scripted before the game, and the rest of the play calls are written on a sheet, developed in the gameplanning sessions, with Ben and Tomlin, and there are probably 2-5 plays written down on the sheet for every down and distance and situation. BA reads the sheet to Ben.

This is really a good thing for Ben though, because it allows him to make mistakes without catching the scrutiny of the fans and the media. BA gets to be the whipping boy. And it is the first time that I can remember that when the offense fails in Pittsburgh, it is not blamed on the QB. It's blamed solely on the OC. Hell Bradshaw, was burned in effigy in 3 Rivers. Ben and the Rooney's have found a way to get Ben a pass, plus 2 Super Bowls doesn't hurt. When Kordell threw the pick in Denver, it was a bad play call, we should have run, but Kordell took the heat. When OD, lost to the Chargers, and then lost to the Cowboys in the Super Bowl, it was all put on him not the OC. This is the first time in Steelers history that I can remember anyone other than the QB being blamed for losses, and now it's BA.

If you don't agree with me that's cool, and like i said i have no love for Arians, I just would like the blame to fall where it should when we fail. And i hope we never fail. :Cheers

sd steel
11-20-2009, 01:57 AM
[quote="stlrz d":3pmsi6qq][quote="sd steel":3pmsi6qq]
So in your opinion Arians decides all offensive personnel decisions, all play calls, and does all the game planning alone? He decides all the formations that we run and when we run them, and he is the one who decides who is on the field at all times?

If this is all correct, then you can blame BA for the offense, and him alone. I just don't think he has that much control.

He may not do it alone, but that's what an OC does.

Although there are a few OC's with total power, but BA ain't one of them. And I know Ben wields more power than BA, as does Tomlin. BA holds the script finds the down and distance and chooses a predecided play with a predecided formation depending on down distance and situation.

Like I said before, even if you fire BA it's not gonna change this offense, because Ben controls it. The reason why BA is there is because he doesn't question Ben's decisions. If he did he would be fired. Only one person / coach has more power than Ben, and that is Tomlin. Both were basically handpicked by the Rooney's. BA is a puppet who reads the plastic sheet.[/quote:3pmsi6qq]

If changing OC's doesn't change a thing, why do they get fired? Because they are bad at math and can't determine down and distance.....Try again Bruce Jr.[/quote:3pmsi6qq]

Let me rephrase it, changing the OC in Pittsburgh with Big ben as the QB won't change a thing. Different teams have different situations than ours. Most OC's are either established, with great records, or they are young guns with something to prove and eventually looking to be Head Coaches. Arians is neither.

RuthlessBurgher
11-20-2009, 02:17 AM
[quote="sd steel":3mn7vx96]
Although there are a few OC's with total power, but BA ain't one of them. And I know Ben wields more power than BA, as does Tomlin. BA holds the script finds the down and distance and chooses a predecided play with a predecided formation depending on down distance and situation.

Like I said before, even if you fire BA it's not gonna change this offense, because Ben controls it. The reason why BA is there is because he doesn't question Ben's decisions. If he did he would be fired. Only one person / coach has more power than Ben, and that is Tomlin. Both were basically handpicked by the Rooney's. BA is a puppet who reads the plastic sheet.


SD - we have communicated well in the past IMO, so I ask this of you honestly. How do you know that BA just looks at the script depending on stuff? How do you know Ben holds his jock? How do you know that the only reason BA is there is because Ben gave his continued blessings?

My point is that when observers of BA say that they don't like him, the defense around here is that no one can really know the assumptions made by the anti-BA crowd. So, I make the same question to you, do you REALLY know this? If so, how? You consult Rooney? Tomlin?

I just want you to see that the logic works both ways - you make assumptions bases on your observations of this situation, filtered by your football experience. So do the anti-BA folks. To date, I havent' seen too much lame logic with that crowd.

DJ, there are a couple of reasons why I feel this way. Do I know for certain, no but I'm about 99% sure. Ben's biggest gripe under Cowher and Whiz was that they would not let him do what he wanted to do. Even after Whiz went to AZ, Ben made comments about how they kept the reigns on him. Tomlin gets hired, and instead of bringing in his own OC, he promotes the WR coach BA. BA knows the offense, and has been an OC before, but it is easy to see that he is not a leader, his track record proves it. (Another reason why he doesn't get looked at for HC positions). He is basically installed to mentor the teams biggest asset, redevelop the current offense to Ben's liking with Ben, and turn him into Peyton Manning, who he was the QB coach for when manning started.

The Rooney's want to keep their Wonder boy happy, and at the same time let him become our Peyton Manning under the tutelage of Mannings first mentor. If they brought in another OC chances are that he would have changed the offense, because Tomlin didn't have his own, and it would have been a set back for the offense and the organization, especially because ben is getting comfortable with the Offense after a couple of years, and some have said he is not the hardest worker or the smartest guy in the classroom.

BA befriends Ben during the off season, and they work on the play book together to add what Ben likes, and get rid of what he doesn't. He basically dictates what plays and what formations he wants.

Ben goes to the Media and says he wants a big receiver, do we really need a receiver with Holmes, Hines, and Nate? No, but the organization picks Sweed in the second round, when they probably could have used an o or d lineman. Then the Rooney's invest $100 million in Ben. I bet BA doesn't make half a million. Yet you all want to think that they let BA have the keys to the Ferrari? Ben has the keys, and they want him to be Peyton, and he is still learning how to drive.

It was great winning the Super Bowl last year, and talentwise we should be close for the next 3 or 4 years, but it solidified the fact that Ben will stay in control of the offense, and Bruce will be reading the sheet on the sideline. It's already been stated that ben calls 40% of his own plays, the first 10 to 20 plays are scripted before the game, and the rest of the play calls are written on a sheet, developed in the gameplanning sessions, with Ben and Tomlin, and there are probably 2-5 plays written down on the sheet for every down and distance and situation. BA reads the sheet to Ben.

This is really a good thing for Ben though, because it allows him to make mistakes without catching the scrutiny of the fans and the media. BA gets to be the whipping boy. And it is the first time that I can remember that when the offense fails in Pittsburgh, it is not blamed on the QB. It's blamed solely on the OC. Hell Bradshaw, was burned in effigy in 3 Rivers. Ben and the Rooney's have found a way to get Ben a pass, plus 2 Super Bowls doesn't hurt. When Kordell threw the pick in Denver, it was a bad play call, we should have run, but Kordell took the heat. When OD, lost to the Chargers, and then lost to the Cowboys in the Super Bowl, it was all put on him not the OC. This is the first time in Steelers history that I can remember anyone other than the QB being blamed for losses, and now it's BA.

If you don't agree with me that's cool, and like i said i have no love for Arians, I just would like the blame to fall where it should when we fail. And i hope we never fail. :Cheers[/quote:3mn7vx96]

I don't understand how you consider Arians using a sheet of plays as a negative thing. Every offensive coordinator uses one. Offenses are complex! They only have a few second to choose a play and radio it in to the quarterback in time for them to to tell it to the other players in the huddle, line up, and snap the ball.

Look! Cam Cameron uses one!

http://blogs.sun-sentinel.com/click/images/2008/10/22/flspdolphinsbaltjr20h_copy_2.jpg

Tom Moore has one too!

http://i2.cdn.turner.com/si/2009/writers/peter_king/05/17/nfl/peyton-manning-tom-moore.jpg

What is that in your hand, Jason Garrett?

http://nbcsportsmedia3.msnbc.com/j/apmegasports/200901061239455718207-pf.widec.jpg

What about you, Kevin Gilbride?

http://cdn.bleacherreport.com/images_root/image_pictures/0392/1828/8068_feature.jpg

I could go on with this, but why should I bother. They are all just a bunch of puppets who only pick plays off a card.

sd steel
11-20-2009, 02:41 AM
[quote="sd steel":3iupvdsy]
Although there are a few OC's with total power, but BA ain't one of them. And I know Ben wields more power than BA, as does Tomlin. BA holds the script finds the down and distance and chooses a predecided play with a predecided formation depending on down distance and situation.

Like I said before, even if you fire BA it's not gonna change this offense, because Ben controls it. The reason why BA is there is because he doesn't question Ben's decisions. If he did he would be fired. Only one person / coach has more power than Ben, and that is Tomlin. Both were basically handpicked by the Rooney's. BA is a puppet who reads the plastic sheet.


SD - we have communicated well in the past IMO, so I ask this of you honestly. How do you know that BA just looks at the script depending on stuff? How do you know Ben holds his jock? How do you know that the only reason BA is there is because Ben gave his continued blessings?

My point is that when observers of BA say that they don't like him, the defense around here is that no one can really know the assumptions made by the anti-BA crowd. So, I make the same question to you, do you REALLY know this? If so, how? You consult Rooney? Tomlin?

I just want you to see that the logic works both ways - you make assumptions bases on your observations of this situation, filtered by your football experience. So do the anti-BA folks. To date, I havent' seen too much lame logic with that crowd.

DJ, there are a couple of reasons why I feel this way. Do I know for certain, no but I'm about 99% sure. Ben's biggest gripe under Cowher and Whiz was that they would not let him do what he wanted to do. Even after Whiz went to AZ, Ben made comments about how they kept the reigns on him. Tomlin gets hired, and instead of bringing in his own OC, he promotes the WR coach BA. BA knows the offense, and has been an OC before, but it is easy to see that he is not a leader, his track record proves it. (Another reason why he doesn't get looked at for HC positions). He is basically installed to mentor the teams biggest asset, redevelop the current offense to Ben's liking with Ben, and turn him into Peyton Manning, who he was the QB coach for when manning started.

The Rooney's want to keep their Wonder boy happy, and at the same time let him become our Peyton Manning under the tutelage of Mannings first mentor. If they brought in another OC chances are that he would have changed the offense, because Tomlin didn't have his own, and it would have been a set back for the offense and the organization, especially because ben is getting comfortable with the Offense after a couple of years, and some have said he is not the hardest worker or the smartest guy in the classroom.

BA befriends Ben during the off season, and they work on the play book together to add what Ben likes, and get rid of what he doesn't. He basically dictates what plays and what formations he wants.

Ben goes to the Media and says he wants a big receiver, do we really need a receiver with Holmes, Hines, and Nate? No, but the organization picks Sweed in the second round, when they probably could have used an o or d lineman. Then the Rooney's invest $100 million in Ben. I bet BA doesn't make half a million. Yet you all want to think that they let BA have the keys to the Ferrari? Ben has the keys, and they want him to be Peyton, and he is still learning how to drive.

It was great winning the Super Bowl last year, and talentwise we should be close for the next 3 or 4 years, but it solidified the fact that Ben will stay in control of the offense, and Bruce will be reading the sheet on the sideline. It's already been stated that ben calls 40% of his own plays, the first 10 to 20 plays are scripted before the game, and the rest of the play calls are written on a sheet, developed in the gameplanning sessions, with Ben and Tomlin, and there are probably 2-5 plays written down on the sheet for every down and distance and situation. BA reads the sheet to Ben.

This is really a good thing for Ben though, because it allows him to make mistakes without catching the scrutiny of the fans and the media. BA gets to be the whipping boy. And it is the first time that I can remember that when the offense fails in Pittsburgh, it is not blamed on the QB. It's blamed solely on the OC. Hell Bradshaw, was burned in effigy in 3 Rivers. Ben and the Rooney's have found a way to get Ben a pass, plus 2 Super Bowls doesn't hurt. When Kordell threw the pick in Denver, it was a bad play call, we should have run, but Kordell took the heat. When OD, lost to the Chargers, and then lost to the Cowboys in the Super Bowl, it was all put on him not the OC. This is the first time in Steelers history that I can remember anyone other than the QB being blamed for losses, and now it's BA.

If you don't agree with me that's cool, and like i said i have no love for Arians, I just would like the blame to fall where it should when we fail. And i hope we never fail. :Cheers

I don't understand how you consider Arians using a sheet of plays as a negative thing. Every offensive coordinator uses one. Offenses are complex! They only have a few second to choose a play and radio it in to the quarterback in time for them to to tell it to the other players in the huddle, line up, and snap the ball.

Look! Cam Cameron uses one!

http://blogs.sun-sentinel.com/click/images/2008/10/22/flspdolphinsbaltjr20h_copy_2.jpg

Tom Moore has one too!

http://i2.cdn.turner.com/si/2009/writers/peter_king/05/17/nfl/peyton-manning-tom-moore.jpg

What is that in your hand, Jason Garrett?

http://nbcsportsmedia3.msnbc.com/j/apmegasports/200901061239455718207-pf.widec.jpg

What about you, Kevin Gilbride?

http://cdn.bleacherreport.com/images_root/image_pictures/0392/1828/8068_feature.jpg

I could go on with this, but why should I bother. They are all just a bunch of puppets who only pick plays off a card.[/quote:3iupvdsy]


Yes and no. First off if indy loses, who takes the blame? Tom Moore? When the Giants suck, is it Gilbright taking the hit? No, it's the Manning Bros. Who is the head Coach of Indy? Whats his name, or Peyton Manning? Gilbright runs his own sh*t, and it didn't work in the Burgh, but I would say he might be the main guy when it comes to plays in NY. Cam, has been pretty successful anywhere he goes, so he is probably calling his own offense. They have a no name QB (Flacco) who has been awesome, and they are used to having slugs and depending on the defense. All different scenarios than what we have.

Ben runs the show in da Burgh. So yes I referenced the laminated sheets, and everyone uses them, and they are game plans that were developed by OC's and QB's and HC's, but our OC does not control an offense that he didn't create. He reads the sheet from what he and Ben and whoever agreed upon during the week.

Djfan
11-20-2009, 03:01 AM
Respectfully, SD, you didn't answer my question. How do you know those things you said were true?

If my ability to know who made calls is called to question, so must all statements made on this topic. You made a conclusion based on a few statements about the relationship of BA to Ben. Fair enough. If you're right, what you said has merit. So how do I know that what you said is true?

That's the biggest argument against my stance, so the other side has to hold up to that standard, too.

How do you know?

stlrz d
11-20-2009, 09:45 AM
Respectfully, SD, you didn't answer my question. How do you know those things you said were true?

If my ability to know who made calls is called to question, so must all statements made on this topic. You made a conclusion based on a few statements about the relationship of BA to Ben. Fair enough. If you're right, what you said has merit. So how do I know that what you said is true?

That's the biggest argument against my stance, so the other side has to hold up to that standard, too.

How do you know?

He doesn't know for sure.

But he coaches pee wee football...so what he says is true.

Just accept it.

:lol:

sd steel
11-20-2009, 11:20 AM
Respectfully, SD, you didn't answer my question. How do you know those things you said were true?

If my ability to know who made calls is called to question, so must all statements made on this topic. You made a conclusion based on a few statements about the relationship of BA to Ben. Fair enough. If you're right, what you said has merit. So how do I know that what you said is true?

That's the biggest argument against my stance, so the other side has to hold up to that standard, too.

How do you know?

He doesn't know for sure.

But he coaches pee wee football...so what he says is true.

Just accept it.

:lol:

D, is right, I don't know for sure. I am not in the organization. I am telling you what I think from my experience. As far as me coaching Pop Warner football, I do, but I also played 12 years of organized football and played Div I in college. I have many past NFL players who are friends and acquaintances, and I think I have some insight to bring.

Hey D, instead of trying to insult me and my Mom, why don't you tell about your football experience. What experience do you have to tell people your opinion on a message board? And Easy Rider has to be one of the worst movies ever made!

feltdizz
11-20-2009, 11:52 AM
40 passes and we still blame Arians...

If Ben and the O convert 2 redzones into TD's we are saying how great Ben is. Arians calls some of the plays and a portion is Ben or checking out of a play....

What really sucked was Ben taking that coverage sack instead of throwing it out of the endzone...
The 3rd and 17 after 1st and goal from the 5 hurts

pfelix73
11-20-2009, 12:03 PM
40 passes and only 16 runs. Why?

Mister Pittsburgh
11-20-2009, 12:47 PM
What has Bruce Arians accomplished in his NFL or college coaching career? He readily admitted he ruined a college QB's career. Cleveland never won anything under his control. He had the benefit of the #1 D in the league to carry them to a Superbowl win last year. Without that D we don't make the playoffs even though the personel we have on our offense matches up with any top team in the league. This year we would be .500 or worse if it weren't for our defense. They won us the Minnesota game.

As I said before, I think it is the OC job to get the most out of his talent and put them in a position to succeed. I think he gets just enough out of them to score a few more points than what our D lets up. We lost the first Cincy game and the Chicago game due to our offense taking their foot off the pedal. Heck, in the AFCCG last year our offense lit it up the first half and then turtled up the entire second half leaving Baltimore withing striking distance the entire game until our D finally picked it off and took it to the house to win it.

Mister Pittsburgh
11-20-2009, 01:15 PM
Here is one interesting name to toss into the OC ring. And he was at Tampa when Tomlin was.

Kyle Shanahan enters his fourth season with the Houston Texans, sixth in the NFL and second as the Texans' offensive coordinator. Shanahan coached the quarterbacks in 2007 and the wide receivers in 2006 before being named offensive coordinator on Jan. 11, 2008. At age 29, Shanahan is the youngest coordinator in the NFL.

Shanahan’s first year as coordinator was an overwhelming success, as the offense ranked third in the NFL, gaining a franchise-record 6,113 yards and passing for a franchise-record 4,267 yards. The offense was equally adept on the ground, running for 1,846 yards at a team-record 4.3-yard clip. Shanahan helped a pair of players earn Pro Bowl nods, with wide receiver Andre Johnson making his third career trip and tight end Owen Daniels making his first.

Johnson garnered first-team AP All-Pro honors after he led the NFL in receptions (115) and receiving yards (1,575). Running back Steve Slaton won the rookie rushing title with a franchise-record 1,282 yards. Quarterback Matt Schaub turned in his first 3,000-yard season, passing for 3,043 yards and 15 touchdowns against 10 interceptions, giving him a passer rating of 92.7. The offensive line featured the same starting lineup for all 16 games and gave up just 32 sacks in 555 pass attempts.

As the quarterbacks coach in 2007, Shanahan saw his group combine to have an outstanding season. The Texans' signal callers were sacked just 22 times all year. Quarterback Matt Schaub threw for 2,241 yards and nine touchdowns with nine interceptions in his first year as a starter. Backup Sage Rosenfels threw for 1,684 yards and 15 touchdowns with 12 interceptions. Their 24 combined touchdown passes were a team record.

With Shanahan as his position coach in 2006, WR Andre Johnson turned in the best season of his young career and earned a starting nod in the 2007 Pro Bowl. Johnson led the NFL with 103 receptions and had his second 1,000-yard season with 1,147 yards. Johnson’s 103 catches accounted for 31.3 percent of the Texans’ total completions, more than any receiver in the league. Opposite Johnson, veteran Eric Moulds contributed 57 catches for 557 yards and a score. Kevin Walter, signed as a restricted free agent in the offseason, proved to be a solid addition with 17 catches for 160 yards on the year.

Shanahan joined the Texans from the Tampa Bay Buccaneers, where he served as offensive quality control coach during the 2004 and 2005 seasons. In his first season with the Bucs, he helped rookie Michael Clayton establish franchise rookie records for receptions and receiving touchdowns. He also helped receiver Joey Galloway finish seventh in the NFL in receiving yardage in 2005.

He spent the 2003 season as a graduate assistant at UCLA, which participated in the Silicon Valley Bowl at the end of the season.

During his senior year playing at the University of Texas as a wide receiver, Shanahan played in 12 games and averaged 8.9 yards per reception.

He attended Duke University in 1999 and played wide receiver for the Blue Devils before transferring to the University of Texas in 2000. He spent two seasons at wide receiver for the Longhorns.

Shanahan was born in Minneapolis and attended Cherry Creek (Colo.) High School. Shanahan and his wife, Mandy, reside in Houston and celebrated the birth of their first daughter, Stella, in 2007.

SHANAHAN’S COACHING LEDGER
2008-09: Offensive Coordinator/Quarterbacks, Houston Texans
2007: Quarterbacks, Houston Texans
2006: Wide receivers, Houston Texans
2004-05: Offensive Quality Control Coach, Tampa Bay Buccaneers
2003: Graduate Assistant, UCLA

pfelix73
11-20-2009, 01:32 PM
Still partial to Steve Logan, IMO.

:tt1

RuthlessBurgher
11-20-2009, 01:33 PM
Here is one interesting name to toss into the OC ring. And he was at Tampa when Tomlin was.

Kyle Shanahan enters his fourth season with the Houston Texans, sixth in the NFL and second as the Texans' offensive coordinator. Shanahan coached the quarterbacks in 2007 and the wide receivers in 2006 before being named offensive coordinator on Jan. 11, 2008. At age 29, Shanahan is the youngest coordinator in the NFL.

Shanahan’s first year as coordinator was an overwhelming success, as the offense ranked third in the NFL, gaining a franchise-record 6,113 yards and passing for a franchise-record 4,267 yards. The offense was equally adept on the ground, running for 1,846 yards at a team-record 4.3-yard clip. Shanahan helped a pair of players earn Pro Bowl nods, with wide receiver Andre Johnson making his third career trip and tight end Owen Daniels making his first.

Johnson garnered first-team AP All-Pro honors after he led the NFL in receptions (115) and receiving yards (1,575). Running back Steve Slaton won the rookie rushing title with a franchise-record 1,282 yards. Quarterback Matt Schaub turned in his first 3,000-yard season, passing for 3,043 yards and 15 touchdowns against 10 interceptions, giving him a passer rating of 92.7. The offensive line featured the same starting lineup for all 16 games and gave up just 32 sacks in 555 pass attempts.

As the quarterbacks coach in 2007, Shanahan saw his group combine to have an outstanding season. The Texans' signal callers were sacked just 22 times all year. Quarterback Matt Schaub threw for 2,241 yards and nine touchdowns with nine interceptions in his first year as a starter. Backup Sage Rosenfels threw for 1,684 yards and 15 touchdowns with 12 interceptions. Their 24 combined touchdown passes were a team record.

With Shanahan as his position coach in 2006, WR Andre Johnson turned in the best season of his young career and earned a starting nod in the 2007 Pro Bowl. Johnson led the NFL with 103 receptions and had his second 1,000-yard season with 1,147 yards. Johnson’s 103 catches accounted for 31.3 percent of the Texans’ total completions, more than any receiver in the league. Opposite Johnson, veteran Eric Moulds contributed 57 catches for 557 yards and a score. Kevin Walter, signed as a restricted free agent in the offseason, proved to be a solid addition with 17 catches for 160 yards on the year.

Shanahan joined the Texans from the Tampa Bay Buccaneers, where he served as offensive quality control coach during the 2004 and 2005 seasons. In his first season with the Bucs, he helped rookie Michael Clayton establish franchise rookie records for receptions and receiving touchdowns. He also helped receiver Joey Galloway finish seventh in the NFL in receiving yardage in 2005.

He spent the 2003 season as a graduate assistant at UCLA, which participated in the Silicon Valley Bowl at the end of the season.

During his senior year playing at the University of Texas as a wide receiver, Shanahan played in 12 games and averaged 8.9 yards per reception.

He attended Duke University in 1999 and played wide receiver for the Blue Devils before transferring to the University of Texas in 2000. He spent two seasons at wide receiver for the Longhorns.

Shanahan was born in Minneapolis and attended Cherry Creek (Colo.) High School. Shanahan and his wife, Mandy, reside in Houston and celebrated the birth of their first daughter, Stella, in 2007.

SHANAHAN’S COACHING LEDGER
2008-09: Offensive Coordinator/Quarterbacks, Houston Texans
2007: Quarterbacks, Houston Texans
2006: Wide receivers, Houston Texans
2004-05: Offensive Quality Control Coach, Tampa Bay Buccaneers
2003: Graduate Assistant, UCLA

You can't poach another team's O.C. to be your O.C. since it is a lateral move. You can only poach a guy if you are giving him a promotion (for example, hiring another team's QB coach to be your O.C., or hiring another team's D.C. to be your H.C.).

Mister Pittsburgh
11-20-2009, 01:36 PM
He didn't argue with offensive co-ordinator Bruce Arians' decision to take over the play-calling during a hurry-up situation late in the game, when Ben Roethlisberger often is most effective while calling his own plays.
http://www.google.com/hostednews/canadi ... -KstH3MNCg (http://www.google.com/hostednews/canadianpress/article/ALeqM5hp85Vcjazn87ueOAvD-KstH3MNCg)

Good job Bruce. Way to go :Clap