Hines Ward and Our WRs

[flippy]

Hines had a hard time getting open yesterday from what I could see on tv. And it looked as though our other WRs did as well.

This has been a bit of a lingering problem for the Steelers for years since Plaxico left for NY.

And Ben has done a great job of buying these guys time to get open. He pump fakes more than any other QB. He takes sacks. He holds on to the ball forever to try and support these guys getting open down field.

Heck Bruce even does a great job of putting 3 WRs in a bunch making it harder to cover them and easier to work their way open.

And going no huddle helps us spread the defense out, wears them down and gets us some more opportunities in the passing game.

But at the end of the day, if we play a team in the playoffs with great DBs, we're going to be back to the issue of having WRs that don't get open quickly. And when they do, they don't get significant separation.

By no means am I saying our WRs are bad. They're good. But they aren't great either.

Hines is tough. Santonio's quick. Wallace has some speed. These guys block and run after the catch as well as anybody. But a Randy Moss, Reggie Wayne, Andre Johnson, Vincent Jackson, or Roddy White type of WR would really help this group and this offense out.

If we had a guy that could command more coverage. Could get open quickly off the LOS. Could get better separation from DBs. Maybe Ben wouldn't have to hold the ball so long. And he wouldn't have to take as many sacks. And he wouldn't have to be so heroic to carry the offense.

I know Limas Sweed has a problem with catching, but maybe it's time to start getting him some more playing time and see what we can get out of him down the stretch.

With his size, speed, and athleticism, he can bring a dimension to this offense that it just doesn't have. And we seen flashes of it.

The only problem is can he just catch the ball?

With our upcoming soft schedule, it might be time to give it a try.

Maybe we could turn him into a weapon for the playoffs in 8 more weeks.

[frankthetank1]

its a very good possibility that wallace will turn out as good or better than those other wr's you mentioned. maybe not as good as moss but he could be a big threat for years to come

[JTP53609]

if wallace turns out to be 3 qtrs as good as moss than i will take it....santonio gets on my nerves but i will not get on him for getting open, he is really good at making something out of nothing, even when the play looks dead he finds a way

[Jom112]

I think you guys are stacked at the receiver position. Hines can find a hole in zone coverage with the best of them, Holmes and Wallace both are really quick and do get separation. Holmes just at times doesn't seem to be focusing. And you have Miller as well.

The reason yesterday they seemed covered is because Leon Hall, Johnathan Joseph and the underlooked but impressive rookie Morgan Trent just had really good coverage. They have been playing lights out the last couple of weeks.

One of the biggest improvement I've seen on defense this season is the play of our #3 CB Morgan Trent. Last season David Jones and Simeon Castille were horrible and they got picked on left and right. This season Trent has been playing phenomenal in the nickel...

[flippy]

I think you guys are stacked at the receiver position. Hines can find a hole in zone coverage with the best of them, Holmes and Wallace both are really quick and do get separation. Holmes just at times doesn't seem to be focusing. And you have Miller as well.

The reason yesterday they seemed covered is because Leon Hall, Johnathan Joseph and the underlooked but impressive rookie Morgan Trent just had really good coverage. They have been playing lights out the last couple of weeks.

One of the biggest improvement I've seen on defense this season is the play of our #3 CB Morgan Trent. Last season David Jones and Simeon Castille were horrible and they got picked on left and right. This season Trent has been playing phenomenal in the nickel...

It looked like a bunch of Ty Law's out there in his prime.

[JUST-PLAIN-NASTY]

I wouldn't put anything on the WRs as individuals. Give the Bengals coaching staff credit for doing their homework. Besides the entire team suffering form the "monday night blues", Ben missed alot of open WRs in the redzone. Holmes had 2 easy TDs right in the middle of the field when the Steelers were in the redzone.

This was more about coaches versus coaches. Arians got "mounted" on national TV because he wouldn't take what the Bengals were giving them. Continuing to run vertical routes when the deep 3rds were flooded with DBs was rediculous. He forgot about balance on offense and looked like he was trying to prove a point that nobody can shut the Steelers offensive stretch game down. Moore & Miller should of racked up 6-8 catches a piece. That is what was there. It was evident by the Steelers running "bubble screens" to bring up DBs.. He should have utilize the delays underneath by Miller & Moore coming out of the backfield. If the Bengals wanted to help on Holmes & Wallace over the top with safeties...So be it. There were mismatches to be had underneath all day. Intermediate crossing routes would have made for a big day for the O.

The secrets out on the Steelers Wallace. There are 2 ways to use this kid and Arians seems to be just trying to send him straight down the field. My God, you could have made a donut with a bus between the hashes 10-15 yards off the LOS. You have the defense backpedalling to help with Wallace or Holmes...Send someone underneath after they clear it out. Release Moore or Miller right down the hash in a trail/delay if they don't have to pick anyone up. Give them an option route and make the dime LBs earn their paycheck. The defenses are gameplanning for Wallace taking the top off of coverage. You can give support on vertical speed. It is harder to cover speed coming across the field than going vertical. With Holmes & Wallace stretching the top...Give Ward a lawn chair and have him put it right in the middle of the field. If you are going to run Wallace down the field...Get the Dam safeties off the hashes. I can't remember the last time I saw a deep post or corner route. Hot difficult is it to cover a WR when you have him run a go route down the hash and the safety help is in a back pedal 15 yards down the field on the hash. "Hello...McFly!" Watching Arians playcalling yesterday was like watching "Tin Cup" trying to hit it over the water instead of the lay up. And you were doing so well Bruce...

[papillon]

I wouldn't put anything on the WRs as individuals. Give the Bengals coaching staff credit for doing their homework. Besides the entire team suffering form the "monday night blues", Ben missed alot of open WRs in the redzone. Holmes had 2 easy TDs right in the middle of the field when the Steelers were in the redzone.

This was more about coaches versus coaches. Arians got "mounted" on national TV because he wouldn't take what the Bengals were giving them. Continuing to run vertical routes when the deep 3rds were flooded with DBs was rediculous. He forgot about balance on offense and looked like he was trying to prove a point that nobody can shut the Steelers offensive stretch game down. Moore & Miller should of racked up 6-8 catches a piece. That is what was there. It was evident by the Steelers running "bubble screens" to bring up DBs.. He should have utilize the delays underneath by Miller & Moore coming out of the backfield. If the Bengals wanted to help on Holmes & Wallace over the top with safeties...So be it. There were mismatches to be had underneath all day. Intermediate crossing routes would have made for a big day for the O.

The secrets out on the Steelers Wallace. There are 2 ways to use this kid and Arians seems to be just trying to send him straight down the field. My God, you could have made a donut with a bus between the hashes 10-15 yards off the LOS. You have the defense backpedalling to help with Wallace or Holmes...Send someone underneath after they clear it out. Release Moore or Miller right down the hash in a trail/delay if they don't have to pick anyone up. Give them an option route and make the dime LBs earn their paycheck. The defenses are gameplanning for Wallace taking the top off of coverage. You can give support on vertical speed. It is harder to cover speed coming across the field than going vertical. With Holmes & Wallace stretching the top...Give Ward a lawn chair and have him put it right in the middle of the field. If you are going to run Wallace down the field...Get the Dam safeties off the hashes. I can't remember the last time I saw a deep post or corner route. Hot difficult is it to cover a WR when you have him run a go route down the hash and the safety help is in a back pedal 15 yards down the field on the hash. "Hello...McFly!" Watching Arians playcalling yesterday was like watching "Tin Cup" trying to hit it over the water instead of the lay up. And you were doing so well Bruce...

JPN, glad to see you checking in after yesterday's debacle. I have a question for you. There seems to be a lot hate going around for the offensive line after yesterday's performance. It is my contention that they played well yesterday. They gave Ben plenty of time by and large and created some running lanes for Mendenhall, but it seemed that Ben and Arians were intent on imposing their "new will" (the vertical passing game) on the Bengals regardless of what was there for the taking.

What's your take on the OL yesterday?

Pappy

[Mel Blount's G]

Disagree with your subtle implication that Plax was/is better at getting open/seperation than our current receivers. The only thing he had to his advantage was his height where maybe a qb (Ben) has more confidence to throw it up despite much seperation from the defender.

I also submit that many "good" qb's get the ball into tight spots for their wr's even when they're not wide open. Timing and trust play a significant part.

I'll also add Wallace had plenty o' seperation from his defender on that long route that Ben threw quite short.

And agree w/ Jom's assessment of his db's; they've been playing great. Not only that but they are generating a pass rush w/ 4-5 guys as well.

I hope that Wallace and Sweed learn work ethics and attitudes from Hines and not Holmes. Don't get me wrong, I think Holmes is talented but I think he can be GREAT if he would put the work, effort and, to quote jom, the "focus".


Btw, and this is not directed right at flippy but, it's a little early to be throwing ourselves off of buildings folks. We lost a game. We lost a game to a good team. We lost a game to a good team and looked sluggish by oiur standards. One game. We'll be the greatest ever again after we slay KC and the chokeland faiders. The ravens game should be it's usual bloodbath. We'll feel good after we knock Bert Flacco out and watch Mendenhaulass run by Ray sLowis

[NC Steeler Fan]

Btw, and this is not directed right at flippy but, it's a little early to be throwing ourselves off of buildings folks. We lost a game. We lost a game to a good team. We lost a game to a good team and looked sluggish by oiur standards. One game. We'll be the greatest ever again after we slay KC and the chokeland faiders. The ravens game should be it's usual bloodbath. We'll feel good after we knock Bert Flacco out and watch Mendenhaulass run by Ray sLowis

My rantings against Reed aside, I agree.

When both teams were on offense, we didn't let cincy into the endzone anymore than they allowed us. We just know how we "could have" played and it's extremely frustrating right now.

And, "sluggish" doesn't even begin to cover it. My husband, the poor foreskins fan that he is, even said at the end of the game, "you guys didn't even look like you wanted to win in that last possession".

"Bert Flacco" <---- :lol:

[JUST-PLAIN-NASTY]

I wouldn't put anything on the WRs as individuals. Give the Bengals coaching staff credit for doing their homework. Besides the entire team suffering form the "monday night blues", Ben missed alot of open WRs in the redzone. Holmes had 2 easy TDs right in the middle of the field when the Steelers were in the redzone.

This was more about coaches versus coaches. Arians got "mounted" on national TV because he wouldn't take what the Bengals were giving them. Continuing to run vertical routes when the deep 3rds were flooded with DBs was rediculous. He forgot about balance on offense and looked like he was trying to prove a point that nobody can shut the Steelers offensive stretch game down. Moore & Miller should of racked up 6-8 catches a piece. That is what was there. It was evident by the Steelers running "bubble screens" to bring up DBs.. He should have utilize the delays underneath by Miller & Moore coming out of the backfield. If the Bengals wanted to help on Holmes & Wallace over the top with safeties...So be it. There were mismatches to be had underneath all day. Intermediate crossing routes would have made for a big day for the O.

The secrets out on the Steelers Wallace. There are 2 ways to use this kid and Arians seems to be just trying to send him straight down the field. My God, you could have made a donut with a bus between the hashes 10-15 yards off the LOS. You have the defense backpedalling to help with Wallace or Holmes...Send someone underneath after they clear it out. Release Moore or Miller right down the hash in a trail/delay if they don't have to pick anyone up. Give them an option route and make the dime LBs earn their paycheck. The defenses are gameplanning for Wallace taking the top off of coverage. You can give support on vertical speed. It is harder to cover speed coming across the field than going vertical. With Holmes & Wallace stretching the top...Give Ward a lawn chair and have him put it right in the middle of the field. If you are going to run Wallace down the field...Get the Dam safeties off the hashes. I can't remember the last time I saw a deep post or corner route. Hot difficult is it to cover a WR when you have him run a go route down the hash and the safety help is in a back pedal 15 yards down the field on the hash. "Hello...McFly!" Watching Arians playcalling yesterday was like watching "Tin Cup" trying to hit it over the water instead of the lay up. And you were doing so well Bruce...

JPN, glad to see you checking in after yesterday's debacle. I have a question for you. There seems to be a lot hate going around for the offensive line after yesterday's performance. It is my contention that they played well yesterday. They gave Ben plenty of time by and large and created some running lanes for Mendenhall, but it seemed that Ben and Arians were intent on imposing their "new will" (the vertical passing game) on the Bengals regardless of what was there for the taking.

What's your take on the OL yesterday?

Pappy

I saw some good things in the running game...The only probelm was there was definately not enough. The Steelers could have taken over this game on the LOS but they didn't go that route.

As far as pass blocking...It wasn't there best but it was OK (B+ grade in my book). I saw alot of "lazy feet" yesterday by Starks. Essex missed an assignment that resulted in a sack. Ben missed or didn't here the OL call where he was responsible for an unblocked defender coming in from the right side that resulted in a sack. Ben did have enough time yesterday, no doubt.

What I did see is he had nothing underneath as an option. Routes coming across the field give you 2+ reads to get rid of the ball even when there isn't a "fire drill". The WR gives the QB options out of his break and continually across the field as he clears the zones. It is always an option the QB can come back to. It also moves the zones in the second level that can create. There were plays where Ben had no option 2 seconds into his play because the WRs were in their vertical routes with their backs to Ben. Heath and Moore are deadly coming out of the back field in late releases. That keeps the LBs shallow or if they go into their deep drop it gives the Steelers a 5-7 yard dump play. You have to give Ben multiple early options and options throughout the play. Don't keep giving DC an easy out. If I'm coaching against the Steelers, I'm blitzing off the edges and playing off the WRs with a set off deep safeties. I'm taking away the slant lanes to bat down the ball and my ILBS are zoning shallow inside the hashes. You want to beat me on the blitz, you will have to get the ball behind my LBs and in front of my Ss in the middle of the field. I really don't know if Arains even has that in his play book. Does anyone think it was coincidence all those balls were batted down or do you think someone from the Bengals watch film and knew were the hot reads were? Get a guy in that throwing lane with their hands up...It's a punt!

[papillon]

[quote="JUST-PLAIN-NASTY":z3bzsx0z]I wouldn't put anything on the WRs as individuals. Give the Bengals coaching staff credit for doing their homework. Besides the entire team suffering form the "monday night blues", Ben missed alot of open WRs in the redzone. Holmes had 2 easy TDs right in the middle of the field when the Steelers were in the redzone.

This was more about coaches versus coaches. Arians got "mounted" on national TV because he wouldn't take what the Bengals were giving them. Continuing to run vertical routes when the deep 3rds were flooded with DBs was rediculous. He forgot about balance on offense and looked like he was trying to prove a point that nobody can shut the Steelers offensive stretch game down. Moore & Miller should of racked up 6-8 catches a piece. That is what was there. It was evident by the Steelers running "bubble screens" to bring up DBs.. He should have utilize the delays underneath by Miller & Moore coming out of the backfield. If the Bengals wanted to help on Holmes & Wallace over the top with safeties...So be it. There were mismatches to be had underneath all day. Intermediate crossing routes would have made for a big day for the O.

The secrets out on the Steelers Wallace. There are 2 ways to use this kid and Arians seems to be just trying to send him straight down the field. My God, you could have made a donut with a bus between the hashes 10-15 yards off the LOS. You have the defense backpedalling to help with Wallace or Holmes...Send someone underneath after they clear it out. Release Moore or Miller right down the hash in a trail/delay if they don't have to pick anyone up. Give them an option route and make the dime LBs earn their paycheck. The defenses are gameplanning for Wallace taking the top off of coverage. You can give support on vertical speed. It is harder to cover speed coming across the field than going vertical. With Holmes & Wallace stretching the top...Give Ward a lawn chair and have him put it right in the middle of the field. If you are going to run Wallace down the field...Get the Dam safeties off the hashes. I can't remember the last time I saw a deep post or corner route. Hot difficult is it to cover a WR when you have him run a go route down the hash and the safety help is in a back pedal 15 yards down the field on the hash. "Hello...McFly!" Watching Arians playcalling yesterday was like watching "Tin Cup" trying to hit it over the water instead of the lay up. And you were doing so well Bruce...

JPN, glad to see you checking in after yesterday's debacle. I have a question for you. There seems to be a lot hate going around for the offensive line after yesterday's performance. It is my contention that they played well yesterday. They gave Ben plenty of time by and large and created some running lanes for Mendenhall, but it seemed that Ben and Arians were intent on imposing their "new will" (the vertical passing game) on the Bengals regardless of what was there for the taking.

What's your take on the OL yesterday?

Pappy

I saw some good things in the running game...The only probelm was there was definately not enough. The Steelers could have taken over this game on the LOS but they didn't go that route.

As far as pass blocking...It wasn't there best but it was OK (B+ grade in my book). I saw alot of "lazy feet" yesterday by Starks. Essex missed an assignment that resulted in a sack. Ben missed or didn't here the OL call where he was responsible for an unblocked defender coming in from the right side that resulted in a sack. Ben did have enough time yesterday, no doubt.

What I did see is he had nothing underneath as an option. Routes coming across the field give you 2+ reads to get rid of the ball even when there isn't a "fire drill". The WR gives the QB options out of his break and continually across the field as he clears the zones. It is always an option the QB can come back to. It also moves the zones in the second level that can create. There were plays where Ben had no option 2 seconds into his play because the WRs were in their vertical routes with their backs to Ben. Heath and Moore are deadly coming out of the back field in late releases. That keeps the LBs shallow or if they go into their deep drop it gives the Steelers a 5-7 yard dump play. You have to give Ben multiple early options and options throughout the play. Don't keep giving DC an easy out. If I'm coaching against the Steelers, I'm blitzing off the edges and playing off the WRs with a set off deep safeties. I'm taking away the slant lanes to bat down the ball and my ILBS are zoning shallow inside the hashes. You want to beat me on the blitz, you will have to get the ball behind my LBs and in front of my Ss in the middle of the field. I really don't know if Arains even has that in his play book. Does anyone think it was coincidence all those balls were batted down or do you think someone from the Bengals watch film and knew were the hot reads were? Get a guy in that throwing lane with their hands up...It's a punt![/quote:z3bzsx0z]

I attributed the batted down passes to a very methodical and controlled pass rush from the Bengals. The defensive linemen never lost their rush lanes to allow Ben to side step or slide in the pocket to get an open throwing lane. They did an excellent job of keeping him in the pocket and then collapsing it around him.

It seemed in the running game just because Mendenhall wasn't ripping off 6,7 and 8 yarders every time that the Steelers felt like the Bengals could throttle the running game. I would have liked to seen a bit more dedication to the run than giving Mendenhall the ball 13 times.

He will wear down a defense, not like Bettis, but similar to Adrian Peterson if you give the ball enough. He takes on tacklers and hits the hole with authority. Just not enough of him yesterday in my opinion.

Another comment on the running game. They (The Steelers) ran the Steelers version of the stretch play twice, once with Parker and he gained 7 yards on real nice run and once to Mendenhall who gained 8 yards on a good run. That play seemed to be there all day because the defensive linemen and linebackers seemed to be crowding the ball and leaving the edge open. With a good block by the tackle in a one on one situation it seemed that play was there to be had, but just wasn't run enough.

Pappy