PDA

View Full Version : What About Bruce?



SteelCrazy
11-15-2009, 05:18 PM
He kept Ben tied down the whole game with a very basic offense...never let the man go no huddle when it looks like they may have benefited from it...could have tired out that Defense a little...Ben did look bad today, but he cant have a great game every time.

We should have ran the ball more, considering how much they were blitzing Ben...Not a good called game today on offense..

not a well executed game by the offense either....the line looked slow and sluggish...kinda like last year...

WR's couldnt get open and that forced Ben to hold onto the ball and make poor decisions.

pfelix73
11-15-2009, 05:20 PM
You know, you can come up excuses, but we gotta give some credit to the Bengals defense. They have gotten a lot better....

:tt1

SteelCrazy
11-15-2009, 05:24 PM
You know, you can come up excuses, but we gotta give some credit to the Bengals defense. They have gotten a lot better....

:tt1

Oh yea, they are good....i give them a lot of credit...That's why I was hoping for the no huddle to tire them down some, but maybe it wouldn't have helped

BURGH86STEEL
11-15-2009, 05:25 PM
He kept Ben tied down the whole game with a very basic offense...never let the man go no huddle when it looks like they may have benefited from it...could have tired out that Defense a little...Ben did look bad today, but he cant have a great game every time.

We should have ran the ball more, considering how much they were blitzing Ben...Not a good called game today on offense..

not a well executed game by the offense either....the line looked slow and sluggish...kinda like last year...

WR's couldnt get open and that forced Ben to hold onto the ball and make poor decisions.

How do you know the offense was basic? Do you really think the no huddle would of been effective the way Ben, Oline, and Bengals defense played today? Bengals defense did a very good job confusing the pass protection schemes. No huddle did not work in crunch time today.

The run game was not very effective. Bengals have a good run defense. I believe number 2 in the league.

I think you are more correct about the execution part. Bengals out executed the Steelers when they needed to. Ben had open WR's at times. He usually likes to look down the field more often then not. It would take more analysis and film study to determine what the real problem was in the passing game.

phillyesq
11-15-2009, 05:27 PM
You know, you can come up excuses, but we gotta give some credit to the Bengals defense. They have gotten a lot better....

:tt1

I agree that the bengals D deserves a lot of credit. I also wish the Steelers would have run the ball more, and the line didn't play particularly well, but I think this is more on the bengals D than it is on Arians.

SteelCrazy
11-15-2009, 05:27 PM
He kept Ben tied down the whole game with a very basic offense...never let the man go no huddle when it looks like they may have benefited from it...could have tired out that Defense a little...Ben did look bad today, but he cant have a great game every time.

We should have ran the ball more, considering how much they were blitzing Ben...Not a good called game today on offense..

not a well executed game by the offense either....the line looked slow and sluggish...kinda like last year...

WR's couldnt get open and that forced Ben to hold onto the ball and make poor decisions.

How do you know the offense was basic? Do you really think the no huddle would of been effective the way Ben, Oline, and Bengals defense played today? Bengals defense did a very good job confusing the pass protection schemes. No huddle did not work in crunch time today.

The run game was not very effective. Bengals have a good run defense. I believe number 2 in the league.

I think you are more correct about the execution part. Bengals out executed the Steelers when they needed to. Ben had open WR's at times. He usually likes to look down the field more often then not. It would take more analysis and film study to determine what the real problem was in the passing game.


Damn it! I'm blowing off steam! ..........lol.......like i said in the post above yours, "maybe it wouldn't have helped."

SteelCrazy
11-15-2009, 05:29 PM
You know, you can come up excuses, but we gotta give some credit to the Bengals defense. They have gotten a lot better....

:tt1

I agree that the bengals D deserves a lot of credit. I also wish the Steelers would have run the ball more, and the line didn't play particularly well, but I think this is more on the bengals D than it is on Arians.


Arians just so happens to be my goto guy when blame is placed on the Steelers for a loss.......I'm starting to calm down enough to see red.........

stlrz d
11-15-2009, 05:30 PM
The no huddle seemed to be helping until that play when the Bengals DB got hurt (Joseph was it?) and then the Bengals were able to sub...and we never saw it again.

But the RZ offense was putrid and all those passes batted down were unbelievably frustrating.

SteelCrazy
11-15-2009, 05:32 PM
The no huddle seemed to be helping until that play when the Bengals DB got hurt (Joseph was it?) and then the Bengals were able to sub...and we never saw it again.

But the RZ offense was putrid and all those passes batted down were unbelievably frustrating.


Yes, those batted down passes were killing me...it was clear there was no throwing lane when he was doing that......and none of those guys had to jump to bat them down.

feltdizz
11-15-2009, 05:37 PM
move the pocket... Ben never rolled out. We didn't run those reverses that slow a blitzing team down..

I think it was kinda basic today.. stuff that usually works didn't and I don't think we ever had a sense of urgency. It's like we were happy to keep it close but no one stepped up to be the hero

stlrz d
11-15-2009, 05:39 PM
move the pocket... Ben never rolled out. We didn't run those reverses that slow a blitzing team down..

I think it was kinda basic today.. stuff that usually works didn't and I don't think we ever had a sense of urgency. It's like we were happy to keep it close but no one stepped up to be the hero

I felt the same way...there seemed to be no sense of urgency.

SteelCrazy
11-15-2009, 05:41 PM
move the pocket... Ben never rolled out. We didn't run those reverses that slow a blitzing team down..

I think it was kinda basic today.. stuff that usually works didn't and I don't think we ever had a sense of urgency. It's like we were happy to keep it close but no one stepped up to be the hero


Ding ding ding ding ding! Exactly.....oh well....ugh, i hate these type of Sunday's

brothervad
11-15-2009, 05:45 PM
Bengals are the better team in this division. They came out and out manned the Steelers not once, but twice.

The thing is while giving Bengals props you can make some observations about the Steelers plays as well...

I think some of the injuries on D are starting to take some toll...on the last drive the Bengals were doing a pretty good job of running it down the Steelers throat...I thought to myself isn't this how the Steelers used to close out games. I think the short week maginified this problem. Troy being out IMHO made a huge difference.

I know I am going to get stoned for this but I think our D is in a transition period...now don't get me wrong it is a very, very, very good to great D but there are some things that look a little off...How many picks did the D leave on the field? Clark can't drop that pick late in the game. It cost us both time and points (I believe Bengals went up 15-12 because of that drive). I think Farrior has slowed down...and Timmons does occassionally look to take the wrong angle. I may be cuckoo for cocoa puffs but there just seems to be as slight drop in the D this year...not enough to for it to be a hole but not as dominant

Ben--simply put--real bad game. But his receivers weren't much of a help...especially in the red zone...I think but I may be mis-remembering both Wallace and Holmes had chances to make catches in EZ on drives and missed. But that is just a small part...the biggest complaint I had with Ben today was his impatience....on the two last drives he throws deep into Double coverage....it ended up putting the offense in 2nd and 10's which was not going to help us out much today. Maybe there was nothing available...but he sure did seem to have happy feet today.


Special teams--why is it a constant spot of weakness regardless of coaches for the Steelers. btw I have grown tired of Jeff Reed's wave at returners...if he just stops his body and makes the guy go one way or the other it likely slows him enough to help out pursuers.


Ok I am done...I guess if we run off another 5 wins this won't feel so bad (especially if the Bengals go 3-2 :) ). But I really just feel that somethingg is slightly off this year.

brothervad

feltdizz
11-15-2009, 05:51 PM
Timmons... is still learning the ILB position..
Fox is much better inside IMO..
He isn't flashy but he takes better angles and plugs the holes while Timmons seems to take on blocks but he can't shed them without moving 3 yards out of the gap.

I love Timmons but he is not so great as an ILB right now..

brothervad
11-15-2009, 05:55 PM
Timmons... is still learning the ILB position..
Fox is much better inside IMO..
He isn't flashy but he takes better angles and plugs the holes while Timmons seems to take on blocks but he can't shed them without moving 3 yards out of the gap.

I love Timmons but he is not so great as an ILB right now..


Agreed. Felt am I off base on Farrior? I just don't get the sense he is as impactful as in the past. He seems to not be in position like previous seasons.

borthervad

Flasteel
11-15-2009, 05:55 PM
He kept Ben tied down the whole game with a very basic offense...never let the man go no huddle when it looks like they may have benefited from it...could have tired out that Defense a little...Ben did look bad today, but he cant have a great game every time.

We should have ran the ball more, considering how much they were blitzing Ben...Not a good called game today on offense..

not a well executed game by the offense either....the line looked slow and sluggish...kinda like last year...

WR's couldnt get open and that forced Ben to hold onto the ball and make poor decisions.

How do you know the offense was basic? Do you really think the no huddle would of been effective the way Ben, Oline, and Bengals defense played today? Bengals defense did a very good job confusing the pass protection schemes. No huddle did not work in crunch time today.

The run game was not very effective. Bengals have a good run defense. I believe number 2 in the league.

I think you are more correct about the execution part. Bengals out executed the Steelers when they needed to. Ben had open WR's at times. He usually likes to look down the field more often then not. It would take more analysis and film study to determine what the real problem was in the passing game.

I don't remember us going no huddle...not once (although I did step outside the bar a couple of times). It was a pathetically called game and the execution stunk as well. With the kind of of pressure that was applied to us today, you have to go to a package like the no-huddle to try and slow the rush. We didn't see that, we didn't see any screens, no roll-outs, and we didn't see the quick hitting passing game after the first two plays. What we saw was BA at his finest. Having Ben stand back on 5 and 7 step drops, unleashing horribly thrown deep balls at inexplicably horrible times.

BA is amongst the worst play-callers I have ever seen and for you to continually defend him makes me think you are related to him somehow.

The guy flat-out sucks.

BURGH86STEEL
11-15-2009, 05:56 PM
Timmons... is still learning the ILB position..
Fox is much better inside IMO..
He isn't flashy but he takes better angles and plugs the holes while Timmons seems to take on blocks but he can't shed them without moving 3 yards out of the gap.

I love Timmons but he is not so great as an ILB right now..

Did Timmons have a bad game? It was his first game back and he is still learning. The only way he will learn is to play.

pfelix73
11-15-2009, 06:05 PM
Well, he didn't have a good game, IMO. (Timmons) He made a few mistakes there in the 4th q.

But he didn't lose the game, so big deal on talking about Timmons. Not so sure if I'd go and say the Bengals are now the best team in the division.. /A lot can happen between now and the end of the year....We could see them again- in Cincy.

The ST cost us in both games. And in the 1st one, we were up 20-9 with the game to win.

We won 5 in a row, we lost one. Suck it up and move on- and they will.

:tt2

BURGH86STEEL
11-15-2009, 06:13 PM
He kept Ben tied down the whole game with a very basic offense...never let the man go no huddle when it looks like they may have benefited from it...could have tired out that Defense a little...Ben did look bad today, but he cant have a great game every time.

We should have ran the ball more, considering how much they were blitzing Ben...Not a good called game today on offense..

not a well executed game by the offense either....the line looked slow and sluggish...kinda like last year...

WR's couldnt get open and that forced Ben to hold onto the ball and make poor decisions.

How do you know the offense was basic? Do you really think the no huddle would of been effective the way Ben, Oline, and Bengals defense played today? Bengals defense did a very good job confusing the pass protection schemes. No huddle did not work in crunch time today.

The run game was not very effective. Bengals have a good run defense. I believe number 2 in the league.

I think you are more correct about the execution part. Bengals out executed the Steelers when they needed to. Ben had open WR's at times. He usually likes to look down the field more often then not. It would take more analysis and film study to determine what the real problem was in the passing game.

We never went no huddle...not once. It was a pathetically called game and the execution stunk as well. With the kind of of pressure that was applied to us today, you have to go to a package like the no-huddle to try and slow the rush. We didn't see that, we didn't see any screens, and we didn't see the quick hitting passing game after the first two plays. What we saw was BA at his finest. Having Ben stand back on 5 and 7 step drops, unleashing horribly thrown deep balls at inexplicably horrible times.

BA is amongst the worst play-callers I have ever seen and for you to continually defend him makes me think you are related to him somehow.

The guy flat-out sucks.

People jump all over the no huddle when they think it will be the answer. I am not sure sure it would have been the answer today. That's because of the way the players on offense performed. They did not execute when they had opportunities. Give the Bengals defense credit for having a hand in the offensive struggles.

If I remember correctly, they tried a couple of screens in the game. They also threw some quick passes. A lot of those quick passes, Ben was not sharp or the WR's did not catch the ball (execution). We don't know the number of quick passes that were called without knowing the play book and watching film. Gotta love how the OC's on this board make these assumptions about the play calls.

A couple of times the WR's were open on the deep passes. The passes appeared to be under thrown (execution). Ultimately, Ben decides where to throw the ball. He had more then one WR running routes. He was not forced to throw it deep.

No, I am not related to him. I see it for what it is. It is mostly on the players. He cannot do much if Ben or the Oline is playing poorly. He helped to put them in the red zone a few times in the game. A couple of times, players mistakes cost them chances to score TD's. Give the Bengals defense credit for doing a good job today.

Like most weeks this game falls mostly on the players. I can go back to numerous times they failed to execute. We can point out a play call here and there that we disagree with but execution is the key to winning. Execution falls on the players.

By chance do you have a copy of the Steelers play book?

sd steel
11-15-2009, 06:19 PM
He kept Ben tied down the whole game with a very basic offense...never let the man go no huddle when it looks like they may have benefited from it...could have tired out that Defense a little...Ben did look bad today, but he cant have a great game every time.

We should have ran the ball more, considering how much they were blitzing Ben...Not a good called game today on offense..

not a well executed game by the offense either....the line looked slow and sluggish...kinda like last year...

WR's couldnt get open and that forced Ben to hold onto the ball and make poor decisions.

How do you know the offense was basic? Do you really think the no huddle would of been effective the way Ben, Oline, and Bengals defense played today? Bengals defense did a very good job confusing the pass protection schemes. No huddle did not work in crunch time today.

The run game was not very effective. Bengals have a good run defense. I believe number 2 in the league.

I think you are more correct about the execution part. Bengals out executed the Steelers when they needed to. Ben had open WR's at times. He usually likes to look down the field more often then not. It would take more analysis and film study to determine what the real problem was in the passing game.

I don't remember us going no huddle...not once (although I did step outside the bar a couple of times). It was a pathetically called game and the execution stunk as well. With the kind of of pressure that was applied to us today, you have to go to a package like the no-huddle to try and slow the rush. We didn't see that, we didn't see any screens, no roll-outs, and we didn't see the quick hitting passing game after the first two plays. What we saw was BA at his finest. Having Ben stand back on 5 and 7 step drops, unleashing horribly thrown deep balls at inexplicably horrible times.

BA is amongst the worst play-callers I have ever seen and for you to continually defend him makes me think you are related to him somehow.

The guy flat-out sucks.

Sorry but this loss falls directly on ben and on special teams. BA shouldn't even be in the equation. The sacks were also on ben for the most part, not the oline. He missed receivers all day, forced balls, and was off. And no, I'm not related to BA.

BURGH86STEEL
11-15-2009, 06:22 PM
He kept Ben tied down the whole game with a very basic offense...never let the man go no huddle when it looks like they may have benefited from it...could have tired out that Defense a little...Ben did look bad today, but he cant have a great game every time.

We should have ran the ball more, considering how much they were blitzing Ben...Not a good called game today on offense..

not a well executed game by the offense either....the line looked slow and sluggish...kinda like last year...

WR's couldnt get open and that forced Ben to hold onto the ball and make poor decisions.

How do you know the offense was basic? Do you really think the no huddle would of been effective the way Ben, Oline, and Bengals defense played today? Bengals defense did a very good job confusing the pass protection schemes. No huddle did not work in crunch time today.

The run game was not very effective. Bengals have a good run defense. I believe number 2 in the league.

I think you are more correct about the execution part. Bengals out executed the Steelers when they needed to. Ben had open WR's at times. He usually likes to look down the field more often then not. It would take more analysis and film study to determine what the real problem was in the passing game.

I don't remember us going no huddle...not once (although I did step outside the bar a couple of times). It was a pathetically called game and the execution stunk as well. With the kind of of pressure that was applied to us today, you have to go to a package like the no-huddle to try and slow the rush. We didn't see that, we didn't see any screens, no roll-outs, and we didn't see the quick hitting passing game after the first two plays. What we saw was BA at his finest. Having Ben stand back on 5 and 7 step drops, unleashing horribly thrown deep balls at inexplicably horrible times.

BA is amongst the worst play-callers I have ever seen and for you to continually defend him makes me think you are related to him somehow.

The guy flat-out sucks.

Sorry but this loss falls directly on ben and on special teams. BA shouldn't even be in the equation. The sacks were also on ben for the most part, not the oline. He missed receivers all day, forced balls, and was off. And no, I'm not related to BA.

By chance, do you have a copy of the Steeler's play book? Oh and some game film to go a long with that play book?

Flasteel
11-15-2009, 06:26 PM
He kept Ben tied down the whole game with a very basic offense...never let the man go no huddle when it looks like they may have benefited from it...could have tired out that Defense a little...Ben did look bad today, but he cant have a great game every time.

We should have ran the ball more, considering how much they were blitzing Ben...Not a good called game today on offense..

not a well executed game by the offense either....the line looked slow and sluggish...kinda like last year...

WR's couldnt get open and that forced Ben to hold onto the ball and make poor decisions.

How do you know the offense was basic? Do you really think the no huddle would of been effective the way Ben, Oline, and Bengals defense played today? Bengals defense did a very good job confusing the pass protection schemes. No huddle did not work in crunch time today.

The run game was not very effective. Bengals have a good run defense. I believe number 2 in the league.

I think you are more correct about the execution part. Bengals out executed the Steelers when they needed to. Ben had open WR's at times. He usually likes to look down the field more often then not. It would take more analysis and film study to determine what the real problem was in the passing game.

We never went no huddle...not once. It was a pathetically called game and the execution stunk as well. With the kind of of pressure that was applied to us today, you have to go to a package like the no-huddle to try and slow the rush. We didn't see that, we didn't see any screens, and we didn't see the quick hitting passing game after the first two plays. What we saw was BA at his finest. Having Ben stand back on 5 and 7 step drops, unleashing horribly thrown deep balls at inexplicably horrible times.

BA is amongst the worst play-callers I have ever seen and for you to continually defend him makes me think you are related to him somehow.

The guy flat-out sucks.

People jump all over the no huddle when they think it will be the answer. I am not sure sure it would have been the answer today. That's because of the way the players on offense performed. They did not execute when they had opportunities. Give the Bengals defense credit for having a hand in the offensive struggles.

If I remember correctly, they tried a couple of screens in the game. They also threw some quick passes. A lot of those quick passes, Ben was not sharp or the WR's did not catch the ball (execution). We don't know the number of quick passes that were called without knowing the play book and watching film. Gotta love how the OC's on this board make these assumptions about the play calls.

A couple of times the WR's were open on the deep passes. The passes appeared to be under thrown (execution). Ultimately, Ben decides where to throw the ball. He had more then one WR running routes. He was not forced to throw it deep.

No, I am not related to him. I see it for what it is. It is mostly on the players. He cannot do much if Ben or the Oline is playing poorly. He helped to put them in the red zone a few times in the game. A couple of times, players mistakes cost them chances to score TD's. Give the Bengals defense credit for doing a good job today.

Like most weeks this game falls mostly on the players. I can go back to numerous times they failed to execute. We can point out a play call here and there that we disagree with but execution is the key to winning. Execution falls on the players.

By chance do you have a copy of the Steelers play book?

You're right, I do remember one screen pass. Moore chiped a DE and released into the flats where Ben threw that lob he somehow pulled in for a first down.

I don't need to see the playbook brother, anyone with an ounce of knowledge concerning the game can see that it was poorly called...apparently you don't reside in that camp.

Nobody is or has tried to state that the no-huddle is a panacea, but when it is easily your best package (despite your contentions) and it just happens to be amongst the many tactics you can deploy to counter a strong rush...well, like I stated earlier this week...BA is affraid of its' success.

His complete ineptitude in play-calling does NOT in any way mitigate the poor execution we all saw today (especially Ben). Again, most folks can discern poor execution when they see it and we saw plenty of it today. You on the other hand stand ready to put it all on the players and fail to realize the impact coaching and play-calling can have on a game.

Through all of this, I don't want to take anything away from that Bengal defense. They played us tough. The game was still there for us, but they beat us straight up.

JAR
11-15-2009, 06:28 PM
40 passes 16 rushes. They gave up on the run way to early

BURGH86STEEL
11-15-2009, 06:52 PM
He kept Ben tied down the whole game with a very basic offense...never let the man go no huddle when it looks like they may have benefited from it...could have tired out that Defense a little...Ben did look bad today, but he cant have a great game every time.

We should have ran the ball more, considering how much they were blitzing Ben...Not a good called game today on offense..

not a well executed game by the offense either....the line looked slow and sluggish...kinda like last year...

WR's couldnt get open and that forced Ben to hold onto the ball and make poor decisions.

How do you know the offense was basic? Do you really think the no huddle would of been effective the way Ben, Oline, and Bengals defense played today? Bengals defense did a very good job confusing the pass protection schemes. No huddle did not work in crunch time today.

The run game was not very effective. Bengals have a good run defense. I believe number 2 in the league.

I think you are more correct about the execution part. Bengals out executed the Steelers when they needed to. Ben had open WR's at times. He usually likes to look down the field more often then not. It would take more analysis and film study to determine what the real problem was in the passing game.

We never went no huddle...not once. It was a pathetically called game and the execution stunk as well. With the kind of of pressure that was applied to us today, you have to go to a package like the no-huddle to try and slow the rush. We didn't see that, we didn't see any screens, and we didn't see the quick hitting passing game after the first two plays. What we saw was BA at his finest. Having Ben stand back on 5 and 7 step drops, unleashing horribly thrown deep balls at inexplicably horrible times.

BA is amongst the worst play-callers I have ever seen and for you to continually defend him makes me think you are related to him somehow.

The guy flat-out sucks.

People jump all over the no huddle when they think it will be the answer. I am not sure sure it would have been the answer today. That's because of the way the players on offense performed. They did not execute when they had opportunities. Give the Bengals defense credit for having a hand in the offensive struggles.

If I remember correctly, they tried a couple of screens in the game. They also threw some quick passes. A lot of those quick passes, Ben was not sharp or the WR's did not catch the ball (execution). We don't know the number of quick passes that were called without knowing the play book and watching film. Gotta love how the OC's on this board make these assumptions about the play calls.

A couple of times the WR's were open on the deep passes. The passes appeared to be under thrown (execution). Ultimately, Ben decides where to throw the ball. He had more then one WR running routes. He was not forced to throw it deep.

No, I am not related to him. I see it for what it is. It is mostly on the players. He cannot do much if Ben or the Oline is playing poorly. He helped to put them in the red zone a few times in the game. A couple of times, players mistakes cost them chances to score TD's. Give the Bengals defense credit for doing a good job today.

Like most weeks this game falls mostly on the players. I can go back to numerous times they failed to execute. We can point out a play call here and there that we disagree with but execution is the key to winning. Execution falls on the players.

By chance do you have a copy of the Steelers play book?

You're right, I do remember one screen pass. Moore chiped a DE and released into the flats where Ben threw that lob he somehow pulled in for a first down.

I don't need to see the playbook brother, anyone with an ounce of knowledge concerning the game can see that it was poorly called...apparently you don't reside in that camp.

Nobody is or has tried to state that the no-huddle is a panacea, but when it is easily your best package (despite your contentions) and it just happens to be amongst the many tactics you can deploy to counter a strong rush...well, like I stated earlier this week...BA is affraid of its' success.

His complete ineptitude in play-calling does NOT in any way mitigate the poor execution we all saw today (especially Ben). Again, most folks can discern poor execution when they see it and we saw plenty of it today. You on the other hand stand ready to put it all on the players and fail to realize the impact coaching and play-calling can have on a game.

Through all of this, I don't want to take anything away from that Bengal defense. They played us tough. The game was still there for us, but they beat us straight up.

The execution was much worse then the play calling. That's the camp that I reside in. No OC can cure the problems when the players don't perform well. Execution is what I can see out there on the field. I don't know the plays called. Nor do I know the designs of the plays. Neither do any of the OC's on this message board.

I don't think BA is afraid of it's success. He plays a role in it's successes and failures. Our best package(your opinion) did not deliver with 2 minutes left. It would take a lot of research to determine the Steelers best offensive package. You think the lack of execution by our players and the Bengals defense had something to do with that? I most certainly do.

I understand you are upset about the loss but completely inept? How did the offense get in scoring position on several occasions? Coaching plays a role but MOST of it falls on the players. Why call out BA when the offense had opportunities and the players failed to execute? If the players had opportunities, the OC helped to put them in position to make plays. There were so many factors but lets make the OC as the biggest culprit.

BURGH86STEEL
11-15-2009, 07:00 PM
40 passes 16 rushes. They gave up on the run way to early

I am not sure if they gave up on the run to early. It is not like they were wildly successful with the run game. Sometimes, the situations dictated to run or not run. Bengals defense did an excellent job today.

Djfan
11-15-2009, 07:06 PM
It's a mixture IMO. No one can deny the poor execution, but the plays seemed unimaginitive.

When your team gets nothing going, try something different. That was the value of the no huddle to me. Also the run seemed to be working. Don't know why we didn't use it more, particularly since Ben was stinking up the place.

Any change might have been good - move the pocket, no huddle, quick slants, fast plays, etc. I saw none of this, and that is my frustration.

There's one more thing. If I'm BA I get Ben's buttocks into the film room all the time until he sees the value of scouting an opponent. He's a great talent, but even so-so talents look good when prepared, and great talents who are prepared look herculean.

BURGH86STEEL
11-15-2009, 07:20 PM
It's a mixture IMO. No one can deny the poor execution, but the plays seemed unimaginitive.

When your team gets nothing going, try something different. That was the value of the no huddle to me. Also the run seemed to be working. Don't know why we didn't use it more, particularly since Ben was stinking up the place.

Any change might have been good - move the pocket, no huddle, quick slants, fast plays, etc. I saw none of this, and that is my frustration.

There's one more thing. If I'm BA I get Ben's buttocks into the film room all the time until he sees the value of scouting an opponent. He's a great talent, but even so-so talents look good when prepared, and great talents who are prepared look herculean.

We would need to see game film to determine if the plays were unimaginative. I think we would need to know the play book.

They had some things going in the game. The problem was the inability to convert in the red zone. Bengals had the same problem today. They made more plays then the Steelers.

The run had limited success. They may had gotten 5 yards on first down, 3 yards on 2nd down, then they passed for an incompletion on 3rd down, and punt on 4th. We would have to take a deeper look at how things developed to make a determination about how things played out. Bengals had quite a few tipped passes today.

They moved the pocket once. Moving the pocket limits the reads to one side of the field. They attempted several quick pass plays. I don't think a game perfectly called would have made a difference the way the players executed. They got into the red zone on several occasions but came up short. They need to work to fix the red zone woes.

I don't think Arians or Tomlin can force Ben to do anything he does not want to do. It will be up to Ben to be more prepared (if he was unprepared today).

Djfan
11-15-2009, 07:23 PM
It's both Burgh. We can't be limited in our criticisms just because we didn't have a QB's helmet and playbook. I saw dropped passes and bad throws. I saw limited variation in play calling when the usual wasn't working.

My two cents.

feltdizz
11-15-2009, 07:33 PM
Timmons... is still learning the ILB position..
Fox is much better inside IMO..
He isn't flashy but he takes better angles and plugs the holes while Timmons seems to take on blocks but he can't shed them without moving 3 yards out of the gap.

I love Timmons but he is not so great as an ILB right now..


Agreed. Felt am I off base on Farrior? I just don't get the sense he is as impactful as in the past. He seems to not be in position like previous seasons.

borthervad

I think farrior has something left. He does lead the team in tackles and Timmons should be right behind him when healthy. However Timmons isn't cleaning up like I hoped when he has played.

I know Cincy is pass heavy so Timmons is logical since he is better in space but his lack of shedding blocks is frustrating and his path to the ball is suspect in traffic. I expect Timmons to improve as he gets healthy but I really wanted to see Fox inside today. I thought he played insane last week.

Flasteel
11-15-2009, 07:52 PM
He kept Ben tied down the whole game with a very basic offense...never let the man go no huddle when it looks like they may have benefited from it...could have tired out that Defense a little...Ben did look bad today, but he cant have a great game every time.

We should have ran the ball more, considering how much they were blitzing Ben...Not a good called game today on offense..

not a well executed game by the offense either....the line looked slow and sluggish...kinda like last year...

WR's couldnt get open and that forced Ben to hold onto the ball and make poor decisions.

How do you know the offense was basic? Do you really think the no huddle would of been effective the way Ben, Oline, and Bengals defense played today? Bengals defense did a very good job confusing the pass protection schemes. No huddle did not work in crunch time today.

The run game was not very effective. Bengals have a good run defense. I believe number 2 in the league.

I think you are more correct about the execution part. Bengals out executed the Steelers when they needed to. Ben had open WR's at times. He usually likes to look down the field more often then not. It would take more analysis and film study to determine what the real problem was in the passing game.

I don't remember us going no huddle...not once (although I did step outside the bar a couple of times). It was a pathetically called game and the execution stunk as well. With the kind of of pressure that was applied to us today, you have to go to a package like the no-huddle to try and slow the rush. We didn't see that, we didn't see any screens, no roll-outs, and we didn't see the quick hitting passing game after the first two plays. What we saw was BA at his finest. Having Ben stand back on 5 and 7 step drops, unleashing horribly thrown deep balls at inexplicably horrible times.

BA is amongst the worst play-callers I have ever seen and for you to continually defend him makes me think you are related to him somehow.

The guy flat-out sucks.

Sorry but this loss falls directly on ben and on special teams. BA shouldn't even be in the equation. The sacks were also on ben for the most part, not the oline. He missed receivers all day, forced balls, and was off. And no, I'm not related to BA.

There's the problem. A lot of you guys see poor execution and let it cloud your mind when it comes to the way we attack a defense. There is no doubt that if Ben plays better or if any number of players perform at a higher level, we could have and would won this game.

BA doesn't have to be in the equation, but he is. His players, for the most part, left him out to dry today, but he did them no favors in return. A lot has rightfully been said about the play selection...what was it? 40-16? In a game where we were ahead or within 3 all game long? I agree that we weren't tearing it up, but we averaging nearly 4.5 yards a pop.

That's just the tip of the iceberg for me. There were several ill-timed deep balls, especially to open that last drive. It's one thing to keep a defense honest, but it's entirely another when you continually pull the trigger on low-percentage plays when they just aren't there. We wasted a lot of downs out there today when we needed to get something going.

The worst thing is the complete lack of scheming to slow the rush. This was the genesis of my disdain for BA and it continues to plague him. He does nothing or next to nothing to compensate. I've gone down the list in this thread and in a hundred others covering the myriad things which can be done. Nowhere on that list does "continually drop your quarterback back into 5 and 7-step drops" appear. Funny how we kept doing that.

For the record, I would like to hear what others have to say about our no-huddle being the most productive package we have. I don't think there's a question...I don't think it's even close. What was that graphic they flashed about how we destroy teams in the last two minutes of any half? That's almost entirely no-huddle and we aren't even considering the number of times we've used it the rest of the time where we've shredded defenses. How much of that stuff is going on without the no-huddle?

California-Steel
11-15-2009, 08:01 PM
40 passes 16 rushes. They gave up on the run way to early

I am not sure if they gave up on the run to early. It is not like they were wildly successful with the run game. Sometimes, the situations dictated to run or not run. Bengals defense did an excellent job today.
Blah blah blah.. :Blah

When you have corners playing 10-15 yards off and you need 5 yards for a first, on 3rd down, you call some sort of 5 yard square out play to the reciever that has the DB playing off. Not Down the middle with Saftey help over the top.

Piss-poor play calling at its best. Cincy did it to us all day. Every time the DB's played off they ran out routs. Even with the back out of the back field. BA is crap and anyone that has coached even a little leauge game knows that.

BURGH86STEEL
11-15-2009, 08:29 PM
40 passes 16 rushes. They gave up on the run way to early

I am not sure if they gave up on the run to early. It is not like they were wildly successful with the run game. Sometimes, the situations dictated to run or not run. Bengals defense did an excellent job today.
Blah blah blah.. :Blah

When you have corners playing 10-15 yards off and you need 5 yards for a first, on 3rd down, you call some sort of 5 yard square out play to the reciever that has the DB playing off. Not Down the middle with Saftey help over the top.

Piss-poor play calling at its best. Cincy did it to us all day. Every time the DB's played off they ran out routs. Even with the back out of the back field. BA is crap and anyone that has coached even a little leauge game knows that.

The OC's on the message boards always think they have the solutions. It is not as simplistic as the OC's on the boards make it sound.

Was it the play calling or WR option routes? How do you know the 5 yard square outs were not run? Maybe Ben did not see those WRs? Maybe he did not have time? There are many factors that go into plays. Ever player has to do their part. The execution was off today. The execution was much worse then the play calling today. Give Bengals defense credit.

How many points did the Cincy offense score today? How many times did our offense make it into the red zone today? How did BA last this long as a coach in the NFL if he is crap? How and why did the Steelers hire BA if he is crap? Based on your little league comments, the Steelers organization does not have a clue what makes up good coaches.

I have such a hard time understanding why people single out the OC when it is clear that losses fall mostly on the players. How many poorly throw balls? How many drops? How many player mistakes in the red zone? How many times was the wrong pass protection called? Penalties? There were other mistakes on the field. This is why I stand by that most of what happens is on the players. Play calling cannot fix the problems that I stated above.

NWNewell
11-15-2009, 10:52 PM
The OC's on the message boards always think they have the solutions. It is not as simplistic as the OC's on the boards make it sound.

Was it the play calling or WR option routes? How do you know the 5 yard square outs were not run? Maybe Ben did not see those WRs? Maybe he did not have time? There are many factors that go into plays. Ever player has to do their part. The execution was off today. The execution was much worse then the play calling today. Give Bengals defense credit.

I agree... but some of the poor play calling was fairly obvious:
- How about a screen pass behind the blitzing middle of the defense?
- Where were the WR screens on the soft defense?
- first and goal from the 8 and you line up 4 wide with an empty back set?
- last drive of the game you call for deep routes 3 plays in a row?

The lose was not all BA's fault. There was plenty of poor offensive execution too. But BA is certainly lumped in there with the offense and their poor performance.

Djfan
11-15-2009, 10:56 PM
I agree... but some of the poor play calling was fairly obvious:
- How about a screen pass behind the blitzing middle of the defense?
- Where were the WR screens on the soft defense?
- first and goal from the 8 and you line up 4 wide with an empty back set?
- last drive of the game you call for deep routes 3 plays in a row?

The lose was not all BA's fault. There was plenty of poor offensive execution too. But BA is certainly lumped in there with the offense and their poor performance.

Bingo. Those of you who think its ALL execution or ALL BA are missing it. Good execution can cover much of the bad play calling, and good play calling can cover much of the bad exection.

In this case there was both bad execution and bad play calling.

BURGH86STEEL
11-15-2009, 11:09 PM
The OC's on the message boards always think they have the solutions. It is not as simplistic as the OC's on the boards make it sound.

Was it the play calling or WR option routes? How do you know the 5 yard square outs were not run? Maybe Ben did not see those WRs? Maybe he did not have time? There are many factors that go into plays. Ever player has to do their part. The execution was off today. The execution was much worse then the play calling today. Give Bengals defense credit.

I agree... but some of the poor play calling was fairly obvious:
- How about a screen pass behind the blitzing middle of the defense?
- Where were the WR screens on the soft defense?
- first and goal from the 8 and you line up 4 wide with an empty back set?
- last drive of the game you call for deep routes 3 plays in a row?

The lose was not all BA's fault. There was plenty of poor offensive execution too. But BA is certainly lumped in there with the offense and their poor performance.

Sure, I can agree with your points but the play calling will never be perfect. We can question the play calling from every team around the league. No one agrees 100% of the time with play calling. I've seen people question play calling under every OC this team had. Well, if you asked some fans it was usually Cowher's fault, LOL. Plus, we need to take into account the excellent job the Bengals defense did.

I disagree with the blanket statement that people state about most of it being on the OC. Especially, when it was clear that execution mistakes were the biggest issue. That falls on the players. They attack BA to the point where they call for his job. They attack him for being a former coach of the Browns. They attack him for the rain in Chicago. They blame him if Ben does not make the right throw. They blame the economy on BA (kidding). I think you get my point.

Do you believe BA is doing a terrible job or inept? I don't think that is the case. They had several opportunities in the red zone. Player mistakes usually hurt their opportunities.

BURGH86STEEL
11-15-2009, 11:18 PM
I agree... but some of the poor play calling was fairly obvious:
- How about a screen pass behind the blitzing middle of the defense?
- Where were the WR screens on the soft defense?
- first and goal from the 8 and you line up 4 wide with an empty back set?
- last drive of the game you call for deep routes 3 plays in a row?

The lose was not all BA's fault. There was plenty of poor offensive execution too. But BA is certainly lumped in there with the offense and their poor performance.

Bingo. Those of you who think its ALL execution or ALL BA are missing it. Good execution can cover much of the bad play calling, and good play calling can cover much of the bad exection.

In this case there was both bad execution and bad play calling.

See, I don't believe that good play calling can cover up poor execution. Teams either execute or they don't. Play calling can't cover up for penalties, dropped passes, and so on. Teams have to take advantage of every opportunity against good teams. That's why I believe most of the blame falls on the players. I don't believe our team is poorly coached. The players need to work to become a more consistent offensive unit.

The play calling was good enough that they had several trips into the red zone. Those opportunities are limited. They did not take advantage.

Why is it that some people focus solely on BA as the goat? He is usually the first person a lot of fans blame. When I watch games, I look at how the players perform. When the players perform well, the coaches look like geniuses every week.

SidSmythe
11-15-2009, 11:27 PM
SCREW THIS!!!

I was frustrated the whole game.

What is up w/ motioning Mendenhall out to WR and leaving no one in the backfield to help pick up blitzes. As soon as they'd motion Mendenhall out, Cincy would show blitz and bring it. ABSOLUTELY RETARDED!!!!!!!!!
Rashard is a NON factor flanked out, but is great in pass protection. So why??????

Mendenhall runs for 10 yards, then go shotgun the next play!! Why not just put up on the big screen, "The Steelers just ran the ball, now they are going to pass it!!!"

Steel Life
11-15-2009, 11:29 PM
Sorry but this loss falls directly on ben and on special teams. BA shouldn't even be in the equation. The sacks were also on ben for the most part, not the oline. He missed receivers all day, forced balls, and was off. And no, I'm not related to BA.

There's the problem. A lot of you guys see poor execution and let it cloud your mind when it comes to the way we attack a defense. There is no doubt that if Ben plays better or if any number of players perform at a higher level, we could have and would won this game.

BA doesn't have to be in the equation, but he is. His players, for the most part, left him out to dry today, but he did them no favors in return. A lot has rightfully been said about the play selection...what was it? 40-16? In a game where we were ahead or within 3 all game long? I agree that we weren't tearing it up, but we averaging nearly 4.5 yards a pop.

That's just the tip of the iceberg for me. There were several ill-timed deep balls, especially to open that last drive. It's one thing to keep a defense honest, but it's entirely another when you continually pull the trigger on low-percentage plays when they just aren't there. We wasted a lot of downs out there today when we needed to get something going.

The worst thing is the complete lack of scheming to slow the rush. This was the genesis of my disdain for BA and it continues to plague him. He does nothing or next to nothing to compensate. I've gone down the list in this thread and in a hundred others covering the myriad things which can be done. Nowhere on that list does "continually drop your quarterback back into 5 and 7-step drops" appear. Funny how we kept doing that.

For the record, I would like to hear what others have to say about our no-huddle being the most productive package we have. I don't think there's a question...I don't think it's even close. What was that graphic they flashed about how we destroy teams in the last two minutes of any half? That's almost entirely no-huddle and we aren't even considering the number of times we've used it the rest of the time where we've shredded defenses. How much of that stuff is going on without the no-huddle?
I agree FLA...perhaps it's a Florida thing...when things are going well, there's rhythm
to the play-calling - but when it's not & things are disjointed, it's up to the OC & the QB to find plays that work & Arians didn't do that today. Say what you want about Ben, but it's the OCs job to find the plays that will work, that will dictate tempo, slow down the rush - in other words, put the teams in the best position to succeed...& Arians did not do that today, what I saw was stubborness. For example...surely Arians must've known that the Bengals are one of the worst teams in defending passes to the RBs - how many did we see of those today? And with the Bengals throwing every blitz possible at us, why weren't more three-step drops incorporated? And don't even get me started on the empty backfield from the 8 yard-line...

Flasteel
11-16-2009, 07:33 AM
Here's a nugget from Arians via the PPG:

Xs and Os
Needing a touchdown to win, the Steelers began their final drive at their 33 with 1:50 remaining -- a situation in which Ben Roethlisberger has usually excelled. But, instead of picking his way downfield, Roethlisberger misfired on deep passes on second and third down and the drive ended with four consecutive incompletions. "We were just trying to get the ball down the field deeper because we needed chunks," offensive coordinator Bruce Arians said. "We didn't protect very well. We had to go a long way. We couldn't nickel-and-dime our way down there with that amount of time."

One of the all-time most ridiculous statements I've ever heard a coach make. I'd love for the BA fan club to defend that mentality.

stlrz d
11-16-2009, 08:26 AM
Here's a nugget from Arians via the PPG:

Xs and Os
Needing a touchdown to win, the Steelers began their final drive at their 33 with 1:50 remaining -- a situation in which Ben Roethlisberger has usually excelled. But, instead of picking his way downfield, Roethlisberger misfired on deep passes on second and third down and the drive ended with four consecutive incompletions. "We were just trying to get the ball down the field deeper because we needed chunks," offensive coordinator Bruce Arians said. "We didn't protect very well. We had to go a long way. We couldn't nickel-and-dime our way down there with that amount of time."

One of the all-time most ridiculous statements I've ever heard a coach make. I'd love for the BA fan club to defend that mentality.

Wow...that's exactly what teams do all the time.

frankthetank1
11-16-2009, 08:32 AM
every time the steelers lose BA gets blamed. its pretty stupid. the offense played awful but how much blame does BA deserve? ben played bad. every player plays bad once in a while. the steelers play calling is usually predictible but it usually doesnt matter. if the steelers play like they have the previous few weeks BA isnt even discussed. execution was to blame yesterday

stlrz d
11-16-2009, 08:34 AM
every time the steelers lose BA gets blamed. its pretty stupid. the offense played awful but how much blame does BA deserve? ben played bad. every player plays bad once in a while. the steelers play calling is usually predictible but it usually doesnt matter. if the steelers play like they have the previous few weeks BA isnt even discussed. execution was to blame yesterday

He's pretty roundly criticized after wins as well.

The guy just doesn't show a lot of imagination and creativity in the offense.

frankthetank1
11-16-2009, 09:30 AM
every time the steelers lose BA gets blamed. its pretty stupid. the offense played awful but how much blame does BA deserve? ben played bad. every player plays bad once in a while. the steelers play calling is usually predictible but it usually doesnt matter. if the steelers play like they have the previous few weeks BA isnt even discussed. execution was to blame yesterday

He's pretty roundly criticized after wins as well.

The guy just doesn't show a lot of imagination and creativity in the offense.

i dont think BA is great i just dont think he is the problem. overall the offense has improved a lot this season. ben took a lot of sacks and the two sacks in the red zone were killers. if ben gets the ball out quicker yesterday its a different story.

Mister Pittsburgh
11-16-2009, 09:55 AM
Those of you defending BA are complete homers.

frankthetank1
11-16-2009, 09:59 AM
Those of you defending BA are complete homers.

how so? if anything i think its the opposite. its easy to blame BA and not the entire offense

BURGH86STEEL
11-16-2009, 10:06 AM
every time the steelers lose BA gets blamed. its pretty stupid. the offense played awful but how much blame does BA deserve? ben played bad. every player plays bad once in a while. the steelers play calling is usually predictible but it usually doesnt matter. if the steelers play like they have the previous few weeks BA isnt even discussed. execution was to blame yesterday

He's pretty roundly criticized after wins as well.

The guy just doesn't show a lot of imagination and creativity in the offense.

How do you know the offense is not imaginative and creative? For that to a fact I believe you would have to do a lot of sound analysis to break down the offense. You would have to know the play book and watch film. There are times that they incorporate different plays in the offense. What I saw yesterday was a team that did not execute.

There were a lot of reasons this team loss. The OC falls down near the bottom of the list. The players are up at the top. Some how people put the OC at the top of the list. Go figure.

SidSmythe
11-16-2009, 10:15 AM
every time the steelers lose BA gets blamed. its pretty stupid. the offense played awful but how much blame does BA deserve? ben played bad. every player plays bad once in a while. the steelers play calling is usually predictible but it usually doesnt matter. if the steelers play like they have the previous few weeks BA isnt even discussed. execution was to blame yesterday

He's pretty roundly criticized after wins as well.

The guy just doesn't show a lot of imagination and creativity in the offense.

How do you know the offense is not imaginative and creative? For that to a fact I believe you would have to do a lot of sound analysis to break down the offense. You would have to know the play book and watch film. There are times that they incorporate different plays in the offense. What I saw yesterday was a team that did not execute.

There were a lot of reasons this team loss. The OC falls down near the bottom of the list. The players are up at the top. Some how people put the OC at the top of the list. Go figure.

I can call the Steelers plays 90% of the time, 100% when he motions the back out to flanker.

BURGH86STEEL
11-16-2009, 10:20 AM
Here's a nugget from Arians via the PPG:

Xs and Os
Needing a touchdown to win, the Steelers began their final drive at their 33 with 1:50 remaining -- a situation in which Ben Roethlisberger has usually excelled. But, instead of picking his way downfield, Roethlisberger misfired on deep passes on second and third down and the drive ended with four consecutive incompletions. "We were just trying to get the ball down the field deeper because we needed chunks," offensive coordinator Bruce Arians said. "We didn't protect very well. We had to go a long way. We couldn't nickel-and-dime our way down there with that amount of time."

One of the all-time most ridiculous statements I've ever heard a coach make. I'd love for the BA fan club to defend that mentality.

In your mind, it was a ridiculous statement because BA made it. It was his opinion based on the way the Steelers offense and Bengals defense played. The offense went max protection to combat the pressure that Ben was under in that situation.

I don't believe they usually nickel and dime teams down the field in that situation. They usually get one or two big plays of 20 or more yards. It did not happen for them yesterday for a variety of reasons.

Dude, they loss as a team. From the 15 yard Harrison penalty to the lack of execution by the players. Why people continue to point the sole finger at the OC or coaches is beyond me. If our players made a play here or there, might had been a different outcome.

BURGH86STEEL
11-16-2009, 10:22 AM
every time the steelers lose BA gets blamed. its pretty stupid. the offense played awful but how much blame does BA deserve? ben played bad. every player plays bad once in a while. the steelers play calling is usually predictible but it usually doesnt matter. if the steelers play like they have the previous few weeks BA isnt even discussed. execution was to blame yesterday

He's pretty roundly criticized after wins as well.

The guy just doesn't show a lot of imagination and creativity in the offense.

How do you know the offense is not imaginative and creative? For that to a fact I believe you would have to do a lot of sound analysis to break down the offense. You would have to know the play book and watch film. There are times that they incorporate different plays in the offense. What I saw yesterday was a team that did not execute.

There were a lot of reasons this team loss. The OC falls down near the bottom of the list. The players are up at the top. Some how people put the OC at the top of the list. Go figure.

I can call the Steelers plays 90% of the time, 100% when he motions the back out to flanker.

So you are saying you know the design of every route, the primary WR, the pass protection, when Ben changes the play and so on? How did the team get inside the red zone against a good defense like the Bengals? How do they ever move the ball or score points?

AngryAsian
11-16-2009, 11:22 AM
Here's a nugget from Arians via the PPG:

Xs and Os
Needing a touchdown to win, the Steelers began their final drive at their 33 with 1:50 remaining -- a situation in which Ben Roethlisberger has usually excelled. But, instead of picking his way downfield, Roethlisberger misfired on deep passes on second and third down and the drive ended with four consecutive incompletions. "We were just trying to get the ball down the field deeper because we needed chunks," offensive coordinator Bruce Arians said. "We didn't protect very well. We had to go a long way. We couldn't nickel-and-dime our way down there with that amount of time."

One of the all-time most ridiculous statements I've ever heard a coach make. I'd love for the BA fan club to defend that mentality.

In your mind, it was a ridiculous statement because BA made it. It was his opinion based on the way the Steelers offense and Bengals defense played. The offense went max protection to combat the pressure that Ben was under in that situation.

I don't believe they usually nickel and dime teams down the field in that situation. They usually get one or two big plays of 20 or more yards. It did not happen for them yesterday for a variety of reasons.

Dude, they loss as a team. From the 15 yard Harrison penalty to the lack of execution by the players. Why people continue to point the sole finger at the OC or coaches is beyond me. If our players made a play here or there, might had been a different outcome.



Bro, I don't mean this disrespectfully, but you are delusional. 1:50 left on their own 33 and you want to defend the OC's rationale of 4 straight incomplete bombs into a secondary where the only thing that the offense was able to garnish the whole game was a pass interference? You think that is sound play calling? Brother, even a lamen like myself can see the retardation in this mindset and obvious failure. People are defending the plan and placing the blame on execution. I agree, Ben was a big culprit, in that he had sticky hands with that ball yesterday, but there's this old saying, "Fail to plan? Then plan to fail." Even if BA called a great game until that final drive, he is the goat in this one because of the bonehead 4 consecutive bombs that he decided to roll the dice on. On a bigger stage, with more on the line, with more yardage to traverse and less time on the clock... this offense "Nickeled and dimed" their way to a game winning touchdown to capture last year's Lombardi. Nuff said.

sd steel
11-16-2009, 11:36 AM
Here's a nugget from Arians via the PPG:

Xs and Os
Needing a touchdown to win, the Steelers began their final drive at their 33 with 1:50 remaining -- a situation in which Ben Roethlisberger has usually excelled. But, instead of picking his way downfield, Roethlisberger misfired on deep passes on second and third down and the drive ended with four consecutive incompletions. "We were just trying to get the ball down the field deeper because we needed chunks," offensive coordinator Bruce Arians said. "We didn't protect very well. We had to go a long way. We couldn't nickel-and-dime our way down there with that amount of time."

One of the all-time most ridiculous statements I've ever heard a coach make. I'd love for the BA fan club to defend that mentality.

BA was protecting Ben, instead of throwing him under the bus for his poor decision making. There were other routes run on those plays and other options for Ben, yet ben decided that he would underthrow numerous long balls Sunday.

Again for those blaming BA, do you even know the effin plays? Do you know the audibles? Do you know who is making the play calls? If you don't know who calls every single play, STFU, because you can't blame one guy when there are many cooks in that kitchen. This game was lost because of poor execution on Ben...period.

Flasteel
11-16-2009, 11:39 AM
Here's a nugget from Arians via the PPG:

Xs and Os
Needing a touchdown to win, the Steelers began their final drive at their 33 with 1:50 remaining -- a situation in which Ben Roethlisberger has usually excelled. But, instead of picking his way downfield, Roethlisberger misfired on deep passes on second and third down and the drive ended with four consecutive incompletions. "We were just trying to get the ball down the field deeper because we needed chunks," offensive coordinator Bruce Arians said. "We didn't protect very well. We had to go a long way. We couldn't nickel-and-dime our way down there with that amount of time."

One of the all-time most ridiculous statements I've ever heard a coach make. I'd love for the BA fan club to defend that mentality.

In your mind, it was a ridiculous statement because BA made it. It was his opinion based on the way the Steelers offense and Bengals defense played. The offense went max protection to combat the pressure that Ben was under in that situation.

I don't believe they usually nickel and dime teams down the field in that situation. They usually get one or two big plays of 20 or more yards. It did not happen for them yesterday for a variety of reasons.

Dude, they loss as a team. From the 15 yard Harrison penalty to the lack of execution by the players. Why people continue to point the sole finger at the OC or coaches is beyond me. If our players made a play here or there, might had been a different outcome.

What? You think that just because BA said this, I think it's bunk? The statement speaks volumes about what bounces around his cranium and if any coach would have said this it would still be ridiculous. For him, it just underscores his deficiencies.

If you are facing pressure like we were all game long, it stands to reason that you don't put your quarterback in a position where the defense can tee off on him. IF they did go max protect, all that means is that you have fewer guys in pattern and you're probably going to be throwing into coverage...again, a very stupid plan of attack.

I am in no way pinning this loss solely on BA. Ben was pretty much atrocious yesterday as well as our kick coverage. I've given him credit on those very rare occasions where the offense did click and I'll continue to hammer the guy as long as he continues to suck.

SteelCrazy
11-16-2009, 12:01 PM
Bro, I don't mean this disrespectfully, but you are delusional. 1:50 left on their own 33 and you want to defend the OC's rationale of 4 straight incomplete bombs into a secondary where the only thing that the offense was able to garnish the whole game was a pass interference? You think that is sound play calling? Brother, even a lamen like myself can see the retardation in this mindset and obvious failure. People are defending the plan and placing the blame on execution. I agree, Ben was a big culprit, in that he had sticky hands with that ball yesterday, but there's this old saying, "Fail to plan? Then plan to fail." Even if BA called a great game until that final drive, he is the goat in this one because of the bonehead 4 consecutive bombs that he decided to roll the dice on. On a bigger stage, with more on the line, with more yardage to traverse and less time on the clock... this offense "Nickeled and dimed" their way to a game winning touchdown to capture last year's Lombardi. Nuff said.

:Clap :Clap :Clap :Clap :Clap :Clap

When I started this thread yesterday, others almost convinced me that I was overreacting on my opinion of Bruce. However, after reading his comment on "nickel and dime" down the field I feel more than confident about my brief assessment of Bruce. 1:50 to go on our own 33 with a time out. LOL, we had more than enough time to dink n dunk down field and try for a higher percentage shot into the end zone. How can a guy in his position come to the conclusion that he came up with?

frankthetank1
11-16-2009, 12:06 PM
on the last drive the second and ten pass to ward was game in my mind. ward was so wide open with room to run after the catch. if ben didnt over throw him they would have been in good position for a td

ikestops85
11-16-2009, 12:59 PM
This loss is on the entire team. They all contributed towards it ... even the defense. Ben was certainly off but he did throw 2 passes that should have been TDs. Even Heath let a couple go through his hands.

I'm not an Arians fan but I also don't think he is the worst Coordinator around. Why we didn't go no huddle a few times in the game has me scratching my head. The no huddle has been our most productive offensive tool the whole year and I don't see how anyone can contest that. I'd really like someone to figure out what percentage of drives using the no huddle that we score on.

His statement about that last drive is also a head scratcher ... unless he is protecting Ben. We've had plenty of TD scoring drives with less time than that on the clock. We have gotten big plays on those drives but they have mostly come from YAC ... not long passes ... and like someone said Ben missed Hines wide open that would have been a big gainer.

It was a bad game and we have to learn from it and move on. Cincy is going to lose another game and then the pressure will be back on them not to lose another. It's not impossible for us to run the table but I think we will lose to the Ratbirds and finish 12-4. That will make the playoffs and that is all we care about.

:tt1

AngryAsian
11-16-2009, 01:35 PM
This loss is on the entire team. They all contributed towards it ... even the defense. Ben was certainly off but he did throw 2 passes that should have been TDs. Even Heath let a couple go through his hands.

I'm not an Arians fan but I also don't think he is the worst Coordinator around. Why we didn't go no huddle a few times in the game has me scratching my head. The no huddle has been our most productive offensive tool the whole year and I don't see how anyone can contest that. I'd really like someone to figure out what percentage of drives using the no huddle that we score on.

His statement about that last drive is also a head scratcher ... unless he is protecting Ben. We've had plenty of TD scoring drives with less time than that on the clock. We have gotten big plays on those drives but they have mostly come from YAC ... not long passes ... and like someone said Ben missed Hines wide open that would have been a big gainer.

It was a bad game and we have to learn from it and move on. Cincy is going to lose another game and then the pressure will be back on them not to lose another. It's not impossible for us to run the table but I think we will lose to the Ratbirds and finish 12-4. That will make the playoffs and that is all we care about.

:tt1


Brother, I agree. This was a team loss. I'm generally not a negative-nelly, but I have to continue to scratch my head about why BA does the things he does. Monday night against the donks, the play calling was stellar and the mix of run and pass was a flawless 29/29. Then yesterday, I was just dumbfounded. Maybe I'm blind here, but I didn't see us go No-Huddle once... not even to change things up. The ST woes is beyond embarrassing. We have to fix and fix it quick.

Bottom line, plenty of football left but we aren't going to do ourselves any favors if we play uninspired ball like we did yesterday. Ben looked unsure and listless.

BURGH86STEEL
11-16-2009, 02:01 PM
Here's a nugget from Arians via the PPG:

Xs and Os
Needing a touchdown to win, the Steelers began their final drive at their 33 with 1:50 remaining -- a situation in which Ben Roethlisberger has usually excelled. But, instead of picking his way downfield, Roethlisberger misfired on deep passes on second and third down and the drive ended with four consecutive incompletions. "We were just trying to get the ball down the field deeper because we needed chunks," offensive coordinator Bruce Arians said. "We didn't protect very well. We had to go a long way. We couldn't nickel-and-dime our way down there with that amount of time."

One of the all-time most ridiculous statements I've ever heard a coach make. I'd love for the BA fan club to defend that mentality.

In your mind, it was a ridiculous statement because BA made it. It was his opinion based on the way the Steelers offense and Bengals defense played. The offense went max protection to combat the pressure that Ben was under in that situation.

I don't believe they usually nickel and dime teams down the field in that situation. They usually get one or two big plays of 20 or more yards. It did not happen for them yesterday for a variety of reasons.

Dude, they loss as a team. From the 15 yard Harrison penalty to the lack of execution by the players. Why people continue to point the sole finger at the OC or coaches is beyond me. If our players made a play here or there, might had been a different outcome.



Bro, I don't mean this disrespectfully, but you are delusional. 1:50 left on their own 33 and you want to defend the OC's rationale of 4 straight incomplete bombs into a secondary where the only thing that the offense was able to garnish the whole game was a pass interference? You think that is sound play calling? Brother, even a lamen like myself can see the retardation in this mindset and obvious failure. People are defending the plan and placing the blame on execution. I agree, Ben was a big culprit, in that he had sticky hands with that ball yesterday, but there's this old saying, "Fail to plan? Then plan to fail." Even if BA called a great game until that final drive, he is the goat in this one because of the bonehead 4 consecutive bombs that he decided to roll the dice on. On a bigger stage, with more on the line, with more yardage to traverse and less time on the clock... this offense "Nickeled and dimed" their way to a game winning touchdown to capture last year's Lombardi. Nuff said.

I am not delusional. Ben made the decision where to go with the ball based on the coverage he saw. The QB always makes the final decision where to go with the ball, not the OC. The OC provides options for the QB.

Lets us recall the final drive of the SB for a second. They moved down the field in with 4 successful plays. There were no nickel and dime plays per say. They got a big play from Holmes. The circumstances were much different in the Bengal game. Ben was under more pressure in the Bengal game. The pressure was so much a factor that the Steelers went max protection.

You guys want to blame the play calling fine. I saw it differently. I saw that the players did not execute on plays when they had opportunities. The opportunities are always limited going up against good teams.

If you state Ben was a big culprit, then the OC/offense is doomed to look bad. No OC can make up for when his best players don't perform. Does this make any sense to you?

JUST-PLAIN-NASTY
11-16-2009, 02:05 PM
I commented in another thread but it seems like this will fit in nicely here to. My take on some things I saw....Bruce!

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=9024 (http://www.planetsteelers.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=9024)

I wouldn't put anything on the WRs as individuals. Give the Bengals coaching staff credit for doing their homework. Besides the entire team suffering form the "monday night blues", Ben missed alot of open WRs in the redzone. Holmes had 2 easy TDs right in the middle of the field when the Steelers were in the redzone.

This was more about coaches versus coaches. Arians got "mounted" on national TV because he wouldn't take what the Bengals were giving them. Continuing to run vertical routes when the deep 3rds were flooded with DBs was rediculous. He forgot about balance on offense and looked like he was trying to prove a point that nobody can shut the Steelers offensive stretch game down. Moore & Miller should of racked up 6-8 catches a piece. That is what was there. It was evident by the Steelers running "bubble screens" to bring up DBs.. He should have utilize the delays underneath by Miller & Moore coming out of the backfield. If the Bengals wanted to help on Holmes & Wallace over the top with safeties...So be it. There were mismatches to be had underneath all day. Intermediate crossing routes would have made for a big day for the O.

The secrets out on the Steelers Wallace. There are 2 ways to use this kid and Arians seems to be just trying to send him straight down the field. My God, you could have made a donut with a bus between the hashes 10-15 yards off the LOS. You have the defense backpedalling to help with Wallace or Holmes...Send someone underneath after they clear it out. Release Moore or Miller right down the hash in a trail/delay if they don't have to pick anyone up. Give them an option route and make the dime LBs earn their paycheck. The defenses are gameplanning for Wallace taking the top off of coverage. You can give support on vertical speed. It is harder to cover speed coming across the field than going vertical. With Holmes & Wallace stretching the top...Give Ward a lawn chair and have him put it right in the middle of the field. If you are going to run Wallace down the field...Get the Dam safeties off the hashes. I can't remember the last time I saw a deep post or corner route. Hot difficult is it to cover a WR when you have him run a go route down the hash and the safety help is in a back pedal 15 yards down the field on the hash. "Hello...McFly!" Watching Arians playcalling yesterday was like watching "Tin Cup" trying to hit it over the water instead of the lay up. And you were doing so well Bruce...

BURGH86STEEL
11-16-2009, 02:11 PM
This loss is on the entire team. They all contributed towards it ... even the defense. Ben was certainly off but he did throw 2 passes that should have been TDs. Even Heath let a couple go through his hands.

I'm not an Arians fan but I also don't think he is the worst Coordinator around. Why we didn't go no huddle a few times in the game has me scratching my head. The no huddle has been our most productive offensive tool the whole year and I don't see how anyone can contest that. I'd really like someone to figure out what percentage of drives using the no huddle that we score on.

His statement about that last drive is also a head scratcher ... unless he is protecting Ben. We've had plenty of TD scoring drives with less time than that on the clock. We have gotten big plays on those drives but they have mostly come from YAC ... not long passes ... and like someone said Ben missed Hines wide open that would have been a big gainer.

It was a bad game and we have to learn from it and move on. Cincy is going to lose another game and then the pressure will be back on them not to lose another. It's not impossible for us to run the table but I think we will lose to the Ratbirds and finish 12-4. That will make the playoffs and that is all we care about.

:tt1


Brother, I agree. This was a team loss. I'm generally not a negative-nelly, but I have to continue to scratch my head about why BA does the things he does. Monday night against the donks, the play calling was stellar and the mix of run and pass was a flawless 29/29. Then yesterday, I was just dumbfounded. Maybe I'm blind here, but I didn't see us go No-Huddle once... not even to change things up. The ST woes is beyond embarrassing. We have to fix and fix it quick.

Bottom line, plenty of football left but we aren't going to do ourselves any favors if we play uninspired ball like we did yesterday. Ben looked unsure and listless.

I agree it was a team loss also. I have a problem with the people that want to put most of the blame on Arians. So much blame they claim he is inept. They can see that the players are not playing well and how do they expect the coaches to adjust? Sometimes, it is just not a good day.

The execution of the play calling was stellar against Denver. They did not execute against the Bengals. There were opportunities against the Bengals. I suppose the coaches thought putting the game in Ben's hands was the answer. Especially, since the Bengals run defense played well (2nd in the league). The Bengals defense played well in all phases. Mendenhall and the Oline did not have good games either.

If you ever question why the coaches do some of the things they do, ask yourself who is the Steeler's best offensive player? Then, you can reach a better conclusion about the offense when that player does not play well.

I agree, about the special teams. I don't know what the problem is in that area. I am sure they are working to fix it.

Flasteel
11-16-2009, 02:51 PM
on the last drive the second and ten pass to ward was game in my mind. ward was so wide open with room to run after the catch. if ben didnt over throw him they would have been in good position for a td

I think it would have been 6. There was nobody there except one of our receivers deeper down field. A perfect example of how a slight improvement in execution could have led to a different outcome in the game.

I'm not blind to the lack of execution, it's just that I can also see the deficiencies in the play-calling on top of the poor play...like a lot of others do.

Flasteel
11-16-2009, 02:55 PM
Here's a nugget from Arians via the PPG:

Xs and Os
Needing a touchdown to win, the Steelers began their final drive at their 33 with 1:50 remaining -- a situation in which Ben Roethlisberger has usually excelled. But, instead of picking his way downfield, Roethlisberger misfired on deep passes on second and third down and the drive ended with four consecutive incompletions. "We were just trying to get the ball down the field deeper because we needed chunks," offensive coordinator Bruce Arians said. "We didn't protect very well. We had to go a long way. We couldn't nickel-and-dime our way down there with that amount of time."

One of the all-time most ridiculous statements I've ever heard a coach make. I'd love for the BA fan club to defend that mentality.

BA was protecting Ben, instead of throwing him under the bus for his poor decision making. There were other routes run on those plays and other options for Ben, yet ben decided that he would underthrow numerous long balls Sunday.

Again for those blaming BA, do you even know the effin plays? Do you know the audibles? Do you know who is making the play calls? If you don't know who calls every single play, STFU, because you can't blame one guy when there are many cooks in that kitchen. This game was lost because of poor execution on Ben...period.

We weren't in the no-huddle, so I'm going to assume that BA was calling the shots....not Ben. There is no doubt that Ben has the green light to audible if he reads something pre-snap, but it seems clear to me that these plays were called by BA and he pretty much threw out his thought process as evidence to it.

You may be right that he's trying to protect Ben, but I seriously doubt it. If he was, then maybe he should come up with something at least half-way intelligent when attempting to do so.

AngryAsian
11-16-2009, 03:00 PM
Here's a nugget from Arians via the PPG:

Xs and Os
Needing a touchdown to win, the Steelers began their final drive at their 33 with 1:50 remaining -- a situation in which Ben Roethlisberger has usually excelled. But, instead of picking his way downfield, Roethlisberger misfired on deep passes on second and third down and the drive ended with four consecutive incompletions. "We were just trying to get the ball down the field deeper because we needed chunks," offensive coordinator Bruce Arians said. "We didn't protect very well. We had to go a long way. We couldn't nickel-and-dime our way down there with that amount of time."

One of the all-time most ridiculous statements I've ever heard a coach make. I'd love for the BA fan club to defend that mentality.

BA was protecting Ben, instead of throwing him under the bus for his poor decision making. There were other routes run on those plays and other options for Ben, yet ben decided that he would underthrow numerous long balls Sunday.

Again for those blaming BA, do you even know the effin plays? Do you know the audibles? Do you know who is making the play calls? If you don't know who calls every single play, STFU, because you can't blame one guy when there are many cooks in that kitchen. This game was lost because of poor execution on Ben...period.

We weren't in the no-huddle, so I'm going to assume that BA was calling the shots....not Ben. There is no doubt that Ben has the green light to audible if he reads something pre-snap, but it seems clear to me that these plays were called by BA and he pretty much threw out his thought process as evidence to it.

You may be right that he's trying to protect Ben, but I seriously doubt it. If he was, then maybe he should come up with something at least half-way intelligent when attempting to do so.


If there was a plan to "protect Ben" then that was a very inept plan because Ben was on his back 4 times yesterday. But then again, Ben was "sticky-hands" Ben yesterday. Just couldn't get rid of that ball.

NWNewell
11-16-2009, 03:01 PM
I commented in another thread but it seems like this will fit in nicely here to. My take on some things I saw....Bruce!

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=9024 (http://www.planetsteelers.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=9024)

This was more about coaches versus coaches. Arians got "mounted" on national TV because he wouldn't take what the Bengals were giving them. Continuing to run vertical routes when the deep 3rds were flooded with DBs was rediculous. He forgot about balance on offense and looked like he was trying to prove a point that nobody can shut the Steelers offensive stretch game down. Moore & Miller should of racked up 6-8 catches a piece. That is what was there. It was evident by the Steelers running "bubble screens" to bring up DBs.. He should have utilize the delays underneath by Miller & Moore coming out of the backfield. If the Bengals wanted to help on Holmes & Wallace over the top with safeties...So be it. There were mismatches to be had underneath all day. Intermediate crossing routes would have made for a big day for the O.

Watching Arians playcalling yesterday was like watching "Tin Cup" trying to hit it over the water instead of the lay up. And you were doing so well Bruce...

I don't think Arians is totally inept.... just insane. Based on the definition of insanity being that you continue to do the same exact thing and expect different results.

He has done some great scripting and game planning and had the Steelers coming out clicking some games. And I do see some changes in the game plan from one game to the next at times.

But it seems like when the defense adjusts, or if their game plan happened to play into what the defense was trying to do, BA either can't or won't adjust.

I don't know why or what his problem is... but I rarely see any kind of adjustment in play calling or game planning from one series to the next, one quarter to the next, one half to the next.

I think that is why our No-Huddle seems to do well. That is about the only time any variation in the play calling and game plan is thrown in there. We wouldn't need to do No-Huddle if BA was quicker at adapting and adjusting on the fly.

I don't understand what is going through his head in the middle of a game. It's insane!

Can anyone help me out???????

BURGH86STEEL
11-16-2009, 03:06 PM
on the last drive the second and ten pass to ward was game in my mind. ward was so wide open with room to run after the catch. if ben didnt over throw him they would have been in good position for a td

I think it would have been 6. There was nobody there except one of our receivers deeper down field. A perfect example of how a slight improvement in execution could have led to a different outcome in the game.

I'm not blind to the lack of execution, it's just that I can also see the deficiencies in the play-calling on top of the poor play...like a lot of others do.

I don't believe the play calling is as inept as you claim. There are play calling mistakes. I don't believe it is to the level that you claim. The execution mistakes were glaring in the Cincy game. Show me a perfectly called game. There are deficiencies in play calling every week. It is not possible for coaches to call perfect games. That goes for every team in the league. That is my main point.

This is a thought. What if Ben called every play on that last drive? It is not out of the realm of possibility. I guess we will never know. The same can be said for every play of every game.

fezziwig
11-16-2009, 03:07 PM
Congradulations to the Bengals.

Arians lost the chess match in my opinion.

Did he throw one slant ? Remember those slants that Santonio was always good for and a first down with them ?

Did he throw any screens ? Seems like Moore can handle those duties ?

Back to the slants or lack there of, a couple of slants would give the defense a second thought before bull rushing Ben.

18 caries for Mendenhall or how ever little amount ? They got away from the run too quickly and decided the offense was going to air it out far too many times.

Tight scoring game, run the ball and pass when needed. Always worked before. There number one runner is out of the game, lets show them our running game.

Parker fought hard for his only carry and did well. Mendenhall was fighting hard.

Ben was in rythm and it showed.

Credit the Bengals but still, make some adjustments and stick to something to gain momentum.

I blame the game on Arians.


Special teams needs a tune up. Considering special teams can't tackle, I'll go on to say, " they must not be able to block either for Logan. I think that is more the case than Logan not being capable.

Flasteel
11-16-2009, 04:31 PM
on the last drive the second and ten pass to ward was game in my mind. ward was so wide open with room to run after the catch. if ben didnt over throw him they would have been in good position for a td

I think it would have been 6. There was nobody there except one of our receivers deeper down field. A perfect example of how a slight improvement in execution could have led to a different outcome in the game.

I'm not blind to the lack of execution, it's just that I can also see the deficiencies in the play-calling on top of the poor play...like a lot of others do.

I don't believe the play calling is as inept as you claim. There are play calling mistakes. I don't believe it is to the level that you claim. The execution mistakes were glaring in the Cincy game. Show me a perfectly called game. There are deficiencies in play calling every week. It is not possible for coaches to call perfect games. That goes for every team in the league. That is my main point.

This is a thought. What if Ben called every play on that last drive? It is not out of the realm of possibility. I guess we will never know. The same can be said for every play of every game.

If Ben called every play on that last drive, then he would rightfully shoulder more of the blame beyond his poor execution. I can only state that we did not go no-huddle on that last drive and in those cases, I assume BA is calling the plays. There is latitude for pre-snap audibles and Ben does have to go through his progressions, but the play still comes in from Arians.

The difference between BA and Ben is pretty dramatic however. Ben has proven that he can consistently read a defense, make plays and move this team. Sure, he throws out a clunker every now and then, but it hasn't happened since early last season. Arians on the other hand has never shown any consistency in play-calling, although he has had a few games I thought were pretty good.

I really do like how he pared down the playbook, involved Ben in the process, and has handed the reins to him when we do go no-huddle. He's not completely challenged as an OC, but I absolutely believe that he has serious deficiencies in his ability to manage and call a game. I also don't agree with many of his philosophies, although this admittedly just a difference of opinion.

sd steel
11-16-2009, 05:09 PM
Here's a nugget from Arians via the PPG:

Xs and Os
Needing a touchdown to win, the Steelers began their final drive at their 33 with 1:50 remaining -- a situation in which Ben Roethlisberger has usually excelled. But, instead of picking his way downfield, Roethlisberger misfired on deep passes on second and third down and the drive ended with four consecutive incompletions. "We were just trying to get the ball down the field deeper because we needed chunks," offensive coordinator Bruce Arians said. "We didn't protect very well. We had to go a long way. We couldn't nickel-and-dime our way down there with that amount of time."

One of the all-time most ridiculous statements I've ever heard a coach make. I'd love for the BA fan club to defend that mentality.

BA was protecting Ben, instead of throwing him under the bus for his poor decision making. There were other routes run on those plays and other options for Ben, yet ben decided that he would underthrow numerous long balls Sunday.

Again for those blaming BA, do you even know the effin plays? Do you know the audibles? Do you know who is making the play calls? If you don't know who calls every single play, STFU, because you can't blame one guy when there are many cooks in that kitchen. This game was lost because of poor execution on Ben...period.

We weren't in the no-huddle, so I'm going to assume that BA was calling the shots....not Ben. There is no doubt that Ben has the green light to audible if he reads something pre-snap, but it seems clear to me that these plays were called by BA and he pretty much threw out his thought process as evidence to it.

You may be right that he's trying to protect Ben, but I seriously doubt it. If he was, then maybe he should come up with something at least half-way intelligent when attempting to do so.

Well answer this for me, and I haven't watched the game again, but if Wallace is streaking, and basically doubled, and Hines Tony and Heath are all on the field as well as Moore or Mendy, how many options are there? Yes Wallace might be the first option, if he is open, then Ben should check down and hit one of the other routes. If everyone ran a streak, well then I blame the play call, but shouldn't the fact that Wallace is streaking mean there is probably something underneith in single coverage? If Wallace was the only receiver running a pattern, then blame the OC, if not, blame Ben. If we ran on 1st or 2nd, and didnt get a yard, blame Arians? Or do you blame the line for not blocking or the back for not hitting the hole? Either way, no matter what Arians calls or doesn't call he is in a no win situation with most of the fans win or lose, because they need someone to blame, and instead of blaming ben's cruddy performance, they would rather blame someone outside of a player.

BURGH86STEEL
11-16-2009, 07:24 PM
[quote=Flasteel]Here's a nugget from Arians via the PPG:

Xs and Os
Needing a touchdown to win, the Steelers began their final drive at their 33 with 1:50 remaining -- a situation in which Ben Roethlisberger has usually excelled. But, instead of picking his way downfield, Roethlisberger misfired on deep passes on second and third down and the drive ended with four consecutive incompletions. "We were just trying to get the ball down the field deeper because we needed chunks," offensive coordinator Bruce Arians said. "We didn't protect very well. We had to go a long way. We couldn't nickel-and-dime our way down there with that amount of time."

One of the all-time most ridiculous statements I've ever heard a coach make. I'd love for the BA fan club to defend that mentality.

BA was protecting Ben, instead of throwing him under the bus for his poor decision making. There were other routes run on those plays and other options for Ben, yet ben decided that he would underthrow numerous long balls Sunday.

Again for those blaming BA, do you even know the effin plays? Do you know the audibles? Do you know who is making the play calls? If you don't know who calls every single play, STFU, because you can't blame one guy when there are many cooks in that kitchen. This game was lost because of poor execution on Ben...period.

We weren't in the no-huddle, so I'm going to assume that BA was calling the shots....not Ben. There is no doubt that Ben has the green light to audible if he reads something pre-snap, but it seems clear to me that these plays were called by BA and he pretty much threw out his thought process as evidence to it.

You may be right that he's trying to protect Ben, but I seriously doubt it. If he was, then maybe he should come up with something at least half-way intelligent when attempting to do so.

Well answer this for me, and I haven't watched the game again, but if Wallace is streaking, and basically doubled, and Hines Tony and Heath are all on the field as well as Moore or Mendy, how many options are there? Yes Wallace might be the first option, if he is open, then Ben should check down and hit one of the other routes. If everyone ran a streak, well then I blame the play call, but shouldn't the fact that Wallace is streaking mean there is probably something underneith in single coverage? If Wallace was the only receiver running a pattern, then blame the OC, if not, blame Ben. If we ran on 1st or 2nd, and didnt get a yard, blame Arians? Or do you blame the line for not blocking or the back for not hitting the hole? Either way, no matter what Arians calls or doesn't call he is in a no win situation with most of the fans win or lose, because they need someone to blame, and instead of blaming ben's cruddy performance, they would rather blame someone outside of a player.[/quote:1fwlx8la]

The play callers are always in no win situations when the players don't execute. That's why I stated they have to take advantage of every opportunity against good teams. Opportunities are limited against good defensive teams.

If the organization makes a move to replace the OC and they continue to have the same issues, who will the fans blame? Tomlin will probably be next in line. Seems people have short memories. There were games they had these same issues under Whiz. A lot of people blamed Cowher. The reality is that the players were usually the culprits for their poor play. In my mind, the players will always take 75% to 80% of the blame for losses.

SteelCrazy
11-16-2009, 07:32 PM
The play callers are always in no win situations when the players don't execute. That's why I stated they have to take advantage of every opportunity against good teams. Opportunities are limited against good defensive teams.

If the organization makes a move to replace the OC and they continue to have the same issues, who will the fans blame? Tomlin will probably be next in line. Seems people have short memories. There were games they had these same issues under Whiz. A lot of people blamed Cowher. The reality is that the players were usually the culprits for their poor play. In my mind, the players will always take 75% to 80% of the blame for losses.


You are right by saying the players didnt execute. The WR's were rarely open and the OL did not protect well, at all. However the game plan stayed the same. Ben was always taking 5-7 step drops and the majority of the time he was only completing passes when play was broken down. The players, in this case deserve 50% of the blame and coaches the other 50%.

There were no screens, slants or reverses that keep a D honest. The Bungals were blitzing almost every down and Ben is taking 5-7 step drops. Not going to work and it is hard to get into any kind of rhythm when you are running for your life.

NYPDSTEEL
11-16-2009, 08:35 PM
It seem to me that BA went with a similar game plan as the first game but added a few more bombs to Wallace. The long throws could have been to open up the underneath stuff or just pure desperation. I believe the latter. I will give him a pass because of a short week for the lack of game planning. There were no new wrinkles added yesterday. If we play them again with the proper game planning, we will be fine. That is the reason why division games are so tough because of the familiarity.

sd steel
11-16-2009, 08:51 PM
The play callers are always in no win situations when the players don't execute. That's why I stated they have to take advantage of every opportunity against good teams. Opportunities are limited against good defensive teams.

If the organization makes a move to replace the OC and they continue to have the same issues, who will the fans blame? Tomlin will probably be next in line. Seems people have short memories. There were games they had these same issues under Whiz. A lot of people blamed Cowher. The reality is that the players were usually the culprits for their poor play. In my mind, the players will always take 75% to 80% of the blame for losses.


You are right by saying the players didnt execute. The WR's were rarely open and the OL did not protect well, at all. However the game plan stayed the same. Ben was always taking 5-7 step drops and the majority of the time he was only completing passes when play was broken down. The players, in this case deserve 50% of the blame and coaches the other 50%.

There were no screens, slants or reverses that keep a D honest. The Bungals were blitzing almost every down and Ben is taking 5-7 step drops. Not going to work and it is hard to get into any kind of rhythm when you are running for your life.


You keep saying the oline didnt play well. Well Ben had time, and just didnt throw the ball. 3 of the 4 sacks were coverage sacks, and the 4th ben didnt read the uncovered unblocked DE, and didnt hit the hot route. The oline was fine.

SteelCrazy
11-16-2009, 09:01 PM
The play callers are always in no win situations when the players don't execute. That's why I stated they have to take advantage of every opportunity against good teams. Opportunities are limited against good defensive teams.

If the organization makes a move to replace the OC and they continue to have the same issues, who will the fans blame? Tomlin will probably be next in line. Seems people have short memories. There were games they had these same issues under Whiz. A lot of people blamed Cowher. The reality is that the players were usually the culprits for their poor play. In my mind, the players will always take 75% to 80% of the blame for losses.


You are right by saying the players didnt execute. The WR's were rarely open and the OL did not protect well, at all. However the game plan stayed the same. Ben was always taking 5-7 step drops and the majority of the time he was only completing passes when play was broken down. The players, in this case deserve 50% of the blame and coaches the other 50%.

There were no screens, slants or reverses that keep a D honest. The Bungals were blitzing almost every down and Ben is taking 5-7 step drops. Not going to work and it is hard to get into any kind of rhythm when you are running for your life.


You keep saying the oline didnt play well. Well Ben had time, and just didnt throw the ball. 3 of the 4 sacks were coverage sacks, and the 4th ben didnt read the uncovered unblocked DE, and didnt hit the hot route. The oline was fine.

Sure, there were times when the line did protect and Ben did hold on to the ball too long. Pump fakes did not work...probably cause he does it so much. The oline was fine, at times. They did a horrible job picking up the blitz, however the line played well enough for us to win...

BURGH86STEEL
11-16-2009, 09:04 PM
The play callers are always in no win situations when the players don't execute. That's why I stated they have to take advantage of every opportunity against good teams. Opportunities are limited against good defensive teams.

If the organization makes a move to replace the OC and they continue to have the same issues, who will the fans blame? Tomlin will probably be next in line. Seems people have short memories. There were games they had these same issues under Whiz. A lot of people blamed Cowher. The reality is that the players were usually the culprits for their poor play. In my mind, the players will always take 75% to 80% of the blame for losses.


You are right by saying the players didnt execute. The WR's were rarely open and the OL did not protect well, at all. However the game plan stayed the same. Ben was always taking 5-7 step drops and the majority of the time he was only completing passes when play was broken down. The players, in this case deserve 50% of the blame and coaches the other 50%.

There were no screens, slants or reverses that keep a D honest. The Bungals were blitzing almost every down and Ben is taking 5-7 step drops. Not going to work and it is hard to get into any kind of rhythm when you are running for your life.

If the players execute, we are not talking about screens, slants, or any other answers the fans think they have.

Sometimes the players have to execute on the fly. The Bengals were not blitzing the same people every play. There were times they were dropping people into slant lanes. There were times that the Bengals spacing took slats away. Sometimes the coverage was good. Things happen so quickly on the field. Sometimes the QB and WR's were not on the same page. Have to give the Bengals defense credit for confusing our guys. All these things that we think we see, may not be reality. As I have stated before, film study would be needed.

I know they ran 3 screens (WR's and RB's) in the game. They also ran 3 step drops. There is not much difference between 3 and 5 step drops. The ball still has to come out quickly. Maybe the WR's were not open, maybe Ben did not see the WR's, or it might be something else? I am not sure they run a lot of 7 step drops. Steelers are usually in shot gun on 3rd downs. It is Ben's comfort zone.

There are times that Ben does not throw well with anticipation. It's one area I would like to see him become more consistent. More film study will be needed to determine what really happened.

One break down can ruin a drive. For instance, the Steelers second possession, it was 2nd down and 7. They ran a 3 step drop, Ben took a 7 yard sack. 3rd down was the play Lewis challenged. Steelers were short of the first down.

3rd possession play action fake, pass to Miller in the flat. Next play was quick pass to Holmes. Next pass was quick pass to Miller. Next play the protection broke down, short pass to Ward. 3rd and 6 quick slant to Holmes, the protection was good but the pass was off the mark. Steelers punt.

The next possession Wallace had his man beaten, Ben under threw him. Next play was another bad pass/good defense. 3rd & 10 Ben and Holmes make a good play. In the Red zone, quick pass to Holmes down to the 5. 1st down, run stuffed loss of 3. 2nd down, they rolled Ben out, good defense or late pass? 3rd down, Ben had lots of time but takes a sack. I would like to see the overall scope of that play to see if anyone else was open. It appeared that Holmes had beat the double coverage.

If you have a chance, rewatch the game. See if the things you claim about 3 step drops, screens, quick passes, and other plays you think were not called holds any water. The problem with fans is they nit pick about one play. They think that one or a few plays they saw is generally what happened the entire game. That's why I said more film study. That is something we are not privy to. The breakdowns and lack of execution in the red zone killed any chances they had to put TD's on the board.

SteelCrazy
11-16-2009, 09:41 PM
The play callers are always in no win situations when the players don't execute. That's why I stated they have to take advantage of every opportunity against good teams. Opportunities are limited against good defensive teams.

If the organization makes a move to replace the OC and they continue to have the same issues, who will the fans blame? Tomlin will probably be next in line. Seems people have short memories. There were games they had these same issues under Whiz. A lot of people blamed Cowher. The reality is that the players were usually the culprits for their poor play. In my mind, the players will always take 75% to 80% of the blame for losses.


You are right by saying the players didnt execute. The WR's were rarely open and the OL did not protect well, at all. However the game plan stayed the same. Ben was always taking 5-7 step drops and the majority of the time he was only completing passes when play was broken down. The players, in this case deserve 50% of the blame and coaches the other 50%.

There were no screens, slants or reverses that keep a D honest. The Bungals were blitzing almost every down and Ben is taking 5-7 step drops. Not going to work and it is hard to get into any kind of rhythm when you are running for your life.

If the players execute, we are not talking about screens, slants, or any other answers the fans think they have.

Sometimes the players have to execute on the fly. The Bengals were not blitzing the same people every play. There were times they were dropping people into slant lanes. There were times that the Bengals spacing took slats away. Sometimes the coverage was good. Things happen so quickly on the field. Sometimes the QB and WR's were not on the same page. Have to give the Bengals defense credit for confusing our guys. All these things that we think we see, may not be reality. As I have stated before, film study would be needed.

I know they ran 3 screens (WR's and RB's) in the game. They also ran 3 step drops. There is not much difference between 3 and 5 step drops. The ball still has to come out quickly. Maybe the WR's were not open, maybe Ben did not see the WR's, or it might be something else? I am not sure they run a lot of 7 step drops. Steelers are usually in shot gun on 3rd downs. It is Ben's comfort zone.

There are times that Ben does not throw well with anticipation. It's one area I would like to see him become more consistent. More film study will be needed to determine what really happened.

One break down can ruin a drive. For instance, the Steelers second possession, it was 2nd down and 7. They ran a 3 step drop, Ben took a 7 yard sack. 3rd down was the play Lewis challenged. Steelers were short of the first down.

3rd possession play action fake, pass to Miller in the flat. Next play was quick pass to Holmes. Next pass was quick pass to Miller. Next play the protection broke down, short pass to Ward. 3rd and 6 quick slant to Holmes, the protection was good but the pass was off the mark. Steelers punt.

The next possession Wallace had his man beaten, Ben under threw him. Next play was another bad pass/good defense. 3rd & 10 Ben and Holmes make a good play. In the Red zone, quick pass to Holmes down to the 5. 1st down, run stuffed loss of 3. 2nd down, they rolled Ben out, good defense or late pass? 3rd down, Ben had lots of time but takes a sack. I would like to see the overall scope of that play to see if anyone else was open. It appeared that Holmes had beat the double coverage.

If you have a chance, rewatch the game. See if the things you claim about 3 step drops, screens, quick passes, and other plays you think were not called holds any water. The problem with fans is they nit pick about one play. They think that one or a few plays they saw is generally what happened the entire game. That's why I said more film study. That is something we are not privy to. The breakdowns and lack of execution in the red zone killed any chances they had to put TD's on the board.

I have rewatched the game. I have the Steelers short cut recorded (DirecTV)...not the whole game, but enough of it to see a lot of blame to go around. Yet, my opinion of Bruce remains. He made no adjustments to help the Offense.

BURGH86STEEL
11-16-2009, 09:59 PM
The play callers are always in no win situations when the players don't execute. That's why I stated they have to take advantage of every opportunity against good teams. Opportunities are limited against good defensive teams.

If the organization makes a move to replace the OC and they continue to have the same issues, who will the fans blame? Tomlin will probably be next in line. Seems people have short memories. There were games they had these same issues under Whiz. A lot of people blamed Cowher. The reality is that the players were usually the culprits for their poor play. In my mind, the players will always take 75% to 80% of the blame for losses.


You are right by saying the players didnt execute. The WR's were rarely open and the OL did not protect well, at all. However the game plan stayed the same. Ben was always taking 5-7 step drops and the majority of the time he was only completing passes when play was broken down. The players, in this case deserve 50% of the blame and coaches the other 50%.

There were no screens, slants or reverses that keep a D honest. The Bungals were blitzing almost every down and Ben is taking 5-7 step drops. Not going to work and it is hard to get into any kind of rhythm when you are running for your life.

If the players execute, we are not talking about screens, slants, or any other answers the fans think they have.

Sometimes the players have to execute on the fly. The Bengals were not blitzing the same people every play. There were times they were dropping people into slant lanes. There were times that the Bengals spacing took slats away. Sometimes the coverage was good. Things happen so quickly on the field. Sometimes the QB and WR's were not on the same page. Have to give the Bengals defense credit for confusing our guys. All these things that we think we see, may not be reality. As I have stated before, film study would be needed.

I know they ran 3 screens (WR's and RB's) in the game. They also ran 3 step drops. There is not much difference between 3 and 5 step drops. The ball still has to come out quickly. Maybe the WR's were not open, maybe Ben did not see the WR's, or it might be something else? I am not sure they run a lot of 7 step drops. Steelers are usually in shot gun on 3rd downs. It is Ben's comfort zone.

There are times that Ben does not throw well with anticipation. It's one area I would like to see him become more consistent. More film study will be needed to determine what really happened.

One break down can ruin a drive. For instance, the Steelers second possession, it was 2nd down and 7. They ran a 3 step drop, Ben took a 7 yard sack. 3rd down was the play Lewis challenged. Steelers were short of the first down.

3rd possession play action fake, pass to Miller in the flat. Next play was quick pass to Holmes. Next pass was quick pass to Miller. Next play the protection broke down, short pass to Ward. 3rd and 6 quick slant to Holmes, the protection was good but the pass was off the mark. Steelers punt.

The next possession Wallace had his man beaten, Ben under threw him. Next play was another bad pass/good defense. 3rd & 10 Ben and Holmes make a good play. In the Red zone, quick pass to Holmes down to the 5. 1st down, run stuffed loss of 3. 2nd down, they rolled Ben out, good defense or late pass? 3rd down, Ben had lots of time but takes a sack. I would like to see the overall scope of that play to see if anyone else was open. It appeared that Holmes had beat the double coverage.

If you have a chance, rewatch the game. See if the things you claim about 3 step drops, screens, quick passes, and other plays you think were not called holds any water. The problem with fans is they nit pick about one play. They think that one or a few plays they saw is generally what happened the entire game. That's why I said more film study. That is something we are not privy to. The breakdowns and lack of execution in the red zone killed any chances they had to put TD's on the board.

I have rewatched the game. I have the Steelers short cut recorded (DirecTV)...not the whole game, but enough of it to see a lot of blame to go around. Yet, my opinion of Bruce remains. He made no adjustments to help the Offense.

Well, your claims about short passes, screens, 3 step drops, and slants were wrong. I saw each for myself.

How do you know what adjustments were made without knowing the play book or seeing game film? What we do know is that the players did not execute.

pfelix73
11-16-2009, 10:14 PM
They sure as heck didn't execute on that return for a TD and 6 points.. The exact number we lost the game by......

7 games in a row with a return of some kind for a TD? I better pick up KC for my defense this week in fantasy football.....

stlrz d
11-16-2009, 11:00 PM
The other team is being paid to execute (I'm really getting sick of that effing word...and I'm sure I'm not alone on that) as well.

The Steelers seemingly run the same plays over and over and over again...that is a lack of imagination. If the D is taking things away from you, because they're being paid to execute (there's that effing word again) also, then you have to mix things up...adjust...take what they are giving. Arians does not seem to do that well at all.

fordfixer
11-16-2009, 11:03 PM
The other team is being paid to execute (I'm really getting sick of that effing word...and I'm sure I'm not alone on that) as well.

The Steelers seemingly run the same plays over and over and over again...that is a lack of imagination. If the D is taking things away from you, because they're being paid to execute (there's that effing word again) also, then you have to mix things up...adjust...take what they are giving. Arians does not seem to do that well at all.


What if we were to executs Arians? would you like the word better then? :lol: :lol:

sd steel
11-17-2009, 12:25 AM
The other team is being paid to execute (I'm really getting sick of that effing word...and I'm sure I'm not alone on that) as well.

The Steelers seemingly run the same plays over and over and over again...that is a lack of imagination. If the D is taking things away from you, because they're being paid to execute (there's that effing word again) also, then you have to mix things up...adjust...take what they are giving. Arians does not seem to do that well at all.

Every team runs the same plays over and over and over again. The play book is only so big. Now if you run 100's of plays is it possible to run them all effectively? No, you will run a bunch of mediocre, and in some instances, awful plays. But if you focus on say 20 plays (which is still alot in my opinion), you can at least focus on the plays and run them over and over in practice until you preform them perfectly.

This is a bitch that I have in a real life coaching scenario, (if you don't want to hear about me coaching youth football just go to the next post). We had a great season, we went 10-0, and won the San Diego Mighty Mite Pop Warner Championship. Here was the problem though. I ran the defense and stuck with one simple scheme, and our defense improved throughout the year, we ended the season with 5 or 6 shutouts, and only allowed 1 TD which was in the Super Bowl in our playoffs. Well on the other side of the ball, our Head Coach/ OC, start adding new wrinkles, plays and formations every week of the season. We started the season putting 30 points on the board every game, but instead of working harder on the same plays for the next 6 weeks and perfecting our fundamentals, he gave the kids a new formation every week, and 10 or so new plays. So what happened? Our offense digressed. It was information overload, and instead of our players focusing on the fundamentals of blocking and exchanges, and getting better without having to think about the calls, they were made to think harder. They ended the last 6 games averaging 14 points a game, and we were dependent on the defense not to give up basically more than 2 scores a game. The thing was we didn't digress because other teams played us or scouted us better, we digressed because we got away from doing a small amount of things perfect, and went to doing a whole bunch of things at a mediocre level.

I know coaching youth football, and the NFL are very different, and I am not equating them to be even close to the same, but I think the same thinking has to apply in regards to executing plays to perfection will always win out over trying to beat teams by catching them off guard with different schemes or plays. For a defense at any level, nothing is more frustrating than knowing what play a team is running and still not being able to stop it. It is demoralizing, and opens up everything else, because we will start selling out to stop it, whereas if a team tricks me or runs something I'm not ready to stop, it's more of a "fool me once shame on you, fool me twice...." type of thing. I will stop it the next time I see it. Sorry for the rant on this, but I've been looking to vent since the season ended! :Cheers

pfelix73
11-17-2009, 01:14 AM
Ah, I did see a few new formations out there in the 1st half.. Anyone else see any? There's one in particular that I never saw them run out of it before. Moore was the FB.

Sorry to defend BA- as that is something I don't usually do.. but a 40-16 pass to run ration is horrid. Are we the iggles?

:tt1

JUST-PLAIN-NASTY
11-17-2009, 09:55 AM
I also rewatched the game. My opinion remains the same. Arians deserves alot of the blame. Play calling puts players in the right spots on the field and Arians didn't put the WRs in the right spots. The Bengals were telling Arains what they would give him and he continued to push the issue downfield. The Bengals were not going to give up the big play. The Steelers needed to have patience and take what was given. 18-40 in a one posession game is all you have to know. 4 Red Zone trips and all FGs. 1 of the 18 attempts was a Ben scramble. So realisticly 17-41. 71% passing to 29% rushing...In a one posession game. 12 of the total 18 rushes were when the Steelers got into Bengals territory. That's 67% of the rushes. 8 of those rushes came when the Steelers were inside the 30. 5 attempts to Mendenhall in the red zone that net -2 yards. Does anyone think they could gameplan against that???

The other reason the Steelers lost was...Heart. They used it up in Denver and it didn't refill in the short week. No swagger on D and just going through the motions on O. 2 combinations that would get you a loss against a loosing team let alone a contender. The Steelers were lucky to walk away from this one with some pride. It could have been ugly if the defense played like the O. Thank God for DL! He at least got the players in the right position to make a play even though they were a step late.

feltdizz
11-17-2009, 12:52 PM
we had 1st down on the 10, 8, 5 and 3... 4 redzone trips and we went backwards on all of them. We needed a gadget or something in the redzone to slow down the rush. roll the freaking pocket once will you.. screen anyone?

The Bungles were blitzing the run on 1st down and either BA was scared on 2nd and 3rd or Ben was checking out of the run because we had 16 runs and 40 passes.

it happens though but lets be honest.. Ben looked terrible. Even Ben has bad games though..

feltdizz
11-17-2009, 12:57 PM
JPNasty.. I agree but I think the D played with heart.. especially with Troy leaving..

Bengals are a good passing team and they ran some great plays in the holes of our D. I swear.. if we play 8 yards off on 3rd and 4 every team should run that WR deep with the FB running in the flat on play action.. that was too easy. That is where Troy flashes his hair..

I still think Cincy will drop a few... not ready to crown them yet.

Steeler Mafia
11-17-2009, 01:03 PM
The fact that we only tried to run the ball 18 times versus the 40 attempts at throwing the ball, not to mention that we didn't even go to the muddle-huddle, puts Arains to blame for this game plan. Rather than sticking to what works, this so called offensive genius tries to over-analyze the game and dials up plays with more risk than reward.

The last drive the Steelers had at the end of the game, proves my point. Everything was down the field. Nothing to the sticks to try to move the chains. Chalk up another loss to our wonderful OC. What a fat bearded putz!

JUST-PLAIN-NASTY
11-17-2009, 01:18 PM
The defense kept us in the game until the end like I said. However, there wasn't the same intensity there we see every week. The Steelers D just showed up to play their role. I saw many times where a steeler defender played the "he'll get um" card. Flat...Not the same tenacity we are used to. Players took plays off on both sides of the ball...If you didn't see it watch it again and it will be evident. I still remember yelling at Harrison, "Oh...Now you get pi$$ed off!" after his shot at Whitworth. Ben had his opportunities to move up higher on that "great" self but he wasn't reading the D like he should have. The Steelers showed up late to the party and kept running to the bathroom. I'm hoping this is one of those "Get it out of your system" games before our playoff run. Watch "Chalk Talk" to see what Ben should have seen. Can't be perfect...But the opportunity was there.

http://news.steelers.com/multimedia/MediaCenter/

NorthCoast
11-17-2009, 01:40 PM
I don't think they played "flat". They looked plum tired! Face it, they just had a big Monday win away and had to come back to play a division rival. They looked spent by the middle of the 2nd quarter. When you're tired you make mistakes and that's the way it looked most of the afternoon to me.

How come LeBeau is able to get his unit to "execute" week in and week out and Arians seems to struggle with the same? AND you can argue that LeBeau has been missing some of his premier players and yet that don't miss a beat! Might it be because the DC knows how to gameplan and use his personnel better? I think so.

NorthCoast
11-17-2009, 01:53 PM
Forgot to mention one other irratation. With Cinci mostly in man coverage why not run the 'bunch' formation with a RB dragging behind? The WRs clear the DBs out and all Mendy or Moore need to do is make that first LB miss for a big gain. How many passes to the RB did we even try?

ikestops85
11-17-2009, 01:59 PM
Forgot to mention one other irratation. With Cinci mostly in man coverage why not run the 'bunch' formation with a RB dragging behind? The WRs clear the DBs out and all Mendy or Moore need to do is make that first LB miss for a big gain. How many passes to the RB did we even try?

Not nearly enough to Moore although I have to give Cincy credit because I saw their LBs do a good job covering that flat pass.

JUST-PLAIN-NASTY
11-17-2009, 02:29 PM
I don't think they played "flat". They looked plum tired! Face it, they just had a big Monday win away and had to come back to play a division rival. They looked spent by the middle of the 2nd quarter. When you're tired you make mistakes and that's the way it looked most of the afternoon to me.

How come LeBeau is able to get his unit to "execute" week in and week out and Arians seems to struggle with the same? AND you can argue that LeBeau has been missing some of his premier players and yet that don't miss a beat! Might it be because the DC knows how to gameplan and use his personnel better? I think so.

Experience. DL has seen it all. I found something funny...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bruce_Arians

SteelCrazy
11-17-2009, 07:07 PM
I don't think they played "flat". They looked plum tired! Face it, they just had a big Monday win away and had to come back to play a division rival. They looked spent by the middle of the 2nd quarter. When you're tired you make mistakes and that's the way it looked most of the afternoon to me.

How come LeBeau is able to get his unit to "execute" week in and week out and Arians seems to struggle with the same? AND you can argue that LeBeau has been missing some of his premier players and yet that don't miss a beat! Might it be because the DC knows how to gameplan and use his personnel better? I think so.

Experience. DL has seen it all. I found something funny...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bruce_Arians

What? His college head coaching career record....17-49.

SteelCrazy
11-17-2009, 07:17 PM
I don't think they played "flat". They looked plum tired! Face it, they just had a big Monday win away and had to come back to play a division rival. They looked spent by the middle of the 2nd quarter. When you're tired you make mistakes and that's the way it looked most of the afternoon to me.

How come LeBeau is able to get his unit to "execute" week in and week out and Arians seems to struggle with the same? AND you can argue that LeBeau has been missing some of his premier players and yet that don't miss a beat! Might it be because the DC knows how to gameplan and use his personnel better? I think so.

Experience. DL has seen it all. I found something funny...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bruce_Arians

What? His college head coaching career record....17-49. What about the fact that in his only winning season at Temple (6-5) was forfeited because he had an ineligible player on the roster....

I want Bruce to be successful, but I think he is given too much credit for outstanding play by the offense and not enough credit for when it fails.

sd steel
11-17-2009, 07:59 PM
I don't think they played "flat". They looked plum tired! Face it, they just had a big Monday win away and had to come back to play a division rival. They looked spent by the middle of the 2nd quarter. When you're tired you make mistakes and that's the way it looked most of the afternoon to me.

How come LeBeau is able to get his unit to "execute" week in and week out and Arians seems to struggle with the same? AND you can argue that LeBeau has been missing some of his premier players and yet that don't miss a beat! Might it be because the DC knows how to gameplan and use his personnel better? I think so.

Experience. DL has seen it all. I found something funny...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bruce_Arians

What? His college head coaching career record....17-49. What about the fact that in his only winning season at Temple (6-5) was forfeited because he had an ineligible player on the roster....

I want Bruce to be successful, but I think he is given too much credit for outstanding play by the offense and not enough credit for when it fails.

BA is given credit?????? He is roasted win or lose, as has been every OC the Steelers have ever had. If you want a thankless job, be a Pittsburgh Steeler OC, because every Steeler fan thinks he can do it better than you. And I'm not just talking this year, we can go back to Erhardt, or Gilbride, or Sherman or Malarkey, and they even called for Whizzes head more than a few times. It obviously comes with the territory, and if we didn't have Ben, they'd be blaming the QB as well like they did with every QB before him, including Bradshaw. The only reason Ben gets a pass is because we have won a few championships with him recently, but if we go a year or 2 with no rings, Pittsburgh will be all over him as well.

NorthCoast
11-17-2009, 08:06 PM
[quote=NorthCoast]I don't think they played "flat". They looked plum tired! Face it, they just had a big Monday win away and had to come back to play a division rival. They looked spent by the middle of the 2nd quarter. When you're tired you make mistakes and that's the way it looked most of the afternoon to me.

How come LeBeau is able to get his unit to "execute" week in and week out and Arians seems to struggle with the same? AND you can argue that LeBeau has been missing some of his premier players and yet that don't miss a beat! Might it be because the DC knows how to gameplan and use his personnel better? I think so.

Experience. DL has seen it all. I found something funny...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bruce_Arians

What? His college head coaching career record....17-49. What about the fact that in his only winning season at Temple (6-5) was forfeited because he had an ineligible player on the roster....

I want Bruce to be successful, but I think he is given too much credit for outstanding play by the offense and not enough credit for when it fails.

BA is given credit?????? He is roasted win or lose, as has been every OC the Steelers have ever had. If you want a thankless job, be a Pittsburgh Steeler OC, because every Steeler fan thinks he can do it better than you. And I'm not just talking this year, we can go back to Erhardt, or Gilbride, or Sherman or Malarkey, and they even called for Whizzes head more than a few times. It obviously comes with the territory, and if we didn't have Ben, they'd be blaming the QB as well like they did with every QB before him, including Bradshaw. The only reason Ben gets a pass is because we have won a few championships with him recently, but if we go a year or 2 with no rings, Pittsburgh will be all over him as well.[/quote:2h10g5c6]

Beg to differ. Sherman, yuk...Kilpride, gag, Sherman, pathetic. But Malarkey and Erhardt I liked. Didn't Malarkey get promoted out of town?...wish we could have kept him.

BATMAN
11-17-2009, 11:06 PM
I know the Bengals did a good job but I have to say, we are the defending Super Bowl champs and we should have Ben able to score at least one touchdown on our own field.
I put this on Arians and then Tomlin if he doesn't start slapping some sense into the mole.
The offense didn't seem to have an original thought when it came down to fighting it out.

We've played good defenses before, even better defenses before and faired much better.

We win despite Arians. We have very talented players on this offense and asking Arians to lead them is like asking a two year old to program the space shuttle.

sd steel
11-18-2009, 12:52 AM
I know the Bengals did a good job but I have to say, we are the defending Super Bowl champs and we should have Ben able to score at least one touchdown on our own field.
I put this on Arians and then Tomlin if he doesn't start slapping some sense into the mole.
The offense didn't seem to have an original thought when it came down to fighting it out.

We've played good defenses before, even better defenses before and faired much better.

We win despite Arians. We have very talented players on this offense and asking Arians to lead them is like asking a two year old to program the space shuttle.

Ben doesn't score a TD and you blame Arians? Riddle me this Batman, Why not blame Ben? He works on the gameplanning and he helped develop this offense, and he's the one who didn't execute. And you say the offense "didn't seem to have an original thought", what exactly does that mean? Are they supposed to make up plays on the sideline? We run plays that our offense practices over and over and over, if we execute we score. We didn't execute so we didn't score, it has nothing to do with originality.

stlrz d
11-18-2009, 01:02 AM
[quote=NorthCoast]I don't think they played "flat". They looked plum tired! Face it, they just had a big Monday win away and had to come back to play a division rival. They looked spent by the middle of the 2nd quarter. When you're tired you make mistakes and that's the way it looked most of the afternoon to me.

How come LeBeau is able to get his unit to "execute" week in and week out and Arians seems to struggle with the same? AND you can argue that LeBeau has been missing some of his premier players and yet that don't miss a beat! Might it be because the DC knows how to gameplan and use his personnel better? I think so.

Experience. DL has seen it all. I found something funny...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bruce_Arians

What? His college head coaching career record....17-49. What about the fact that in his only winning season at Temple (6-5) was forfeited because he had an ineligible player on the roster....

I want Bruce to be successful, but I think he is given too much credit for outstanding play by the offense and not enough credit for when it fails.

BA is given credit?????? He is roasted win or lose, as has been every OC the Steelers have ever had. If you want a thankless job, be a Pittsburgh Steeler OC, because every Steeler fan thinks he can do it better than you. And I'm not just talking this year, we can go back to Erhardt, or Gilbride, or Sherman or Malarkey, and they even called for Whizzes head more than a few times. It obviously comes with the territory, and if we didn't have Ben, they'd be blaming the QB as well like they did with every QB before him, including Bradshaw. The only reason Ben gets a pass is because we have won a few championships with him recently, but if we go a year or 2 with no rings, Pittsburgh will be all over him as well.

Beg to differ. Sherman, yuk...Kilpride, gag, Sherman, pathetic. But Malarkey and Erhardt I liked. Didn't Malarkey get promoted out of town?...wish we could have kept him.[/quote:6tiionru]

Mularkey got the HC gig in Buffalo and failed. He's now the OC in Atlanta.

I never complained about Rod, Chan, Mularkey or Whiz as OCs.

SteelCrazy
11-18-2009, 10:19 AM
I know the Bengals did a good job but I have to say, we are the defending Super Bowl champs and we should have Ben able to score at least one touchdown on our own field.
I put this on Arians and then Tomlin if he doesn't start slapping some sense into the mole.
The offense didn't seem to have an original thought when it came down to fighting it out.

We've played good defenses before, even better defenses before and faired much better.

We win despite Arians. We have very talented players on this offense and asking Arians to lead them is like asking a two year old to program the space shuttle.

Ben doesn't score a TD and you blame Arians? Riddle me this Batman, Why not blame Ben? He works on the gameplanning and he helped develop this offense, and he's the one who didn't execute. And you say the offense "didn't seem to have an original thought", what exactly does that mean? Are they supposed to make up plays on the sideline? We run plays that our offense practices over and over and over, if we execute we score. We didn't execute so we didn't score, it has nothing to do with originality.

The plays they run in practice, where do you think they come from? If we execute, we score? The players are only as good as the play and vice versa..........regardless, it comes down to the play calling....if it was as simple as execution we wouldn't need an OC.

JUST-PLAIN-NASTY
11-18-2009, 11:15 AM
I blame no TDs in the redzone on both Ben & Arians. If you watch "ChalkTalk"...They show 2 plays in the redzone where Ben made a mistake. However, the lack of balance in the play calling, the predictability of the non-existent running game, and the inabilty to adjust to the defensive gameplan of the Bengals is on Arians. Ben missed some guys too between the 20s but the plays being run stuck out. Seriously...The Bengals were not going to allow the Steelers to get the big play. Underneath and between the hashes is what they were giving us. Your gameplan isn't always going to work. It wasn't like they sprung it on the Steelers in the 2nd half either. Mendenhall should have had 25+ carries this game. 20 of them should have been between the 20s. That is the approach Arians should have used to get the CBs up and the safeties shallow. Not a couple "Bubble Screens" and then abandon it. The defense dictated "Old School" Steeler football. Which seems to be available when we need it. And I hate to say it but Tomlin could have added his "2 cents" to the conversation too.

SteelCrazy
11-18-2009, 11:42 AM
I blame no TDs in the redzone on both Ben & Arians. If you watch "ChalkTalk"...They show 2 plays in the redzone where Ben made a mistake. However, the lack of balance in the play calling, the predictability of the non-existent running game, and the inabilty to adjust to the defensive gameplan of the Bengals is on Arians. Ben missed some guys too between the 20s but the plays being run stuck out. Seriously...The Bengals were not going to allow the Steelers to get the big play. Underneath and between the hashes is what they were giving us. Your gameplan isn't always going to work. It wasn't like they sprung it on the Steelers in the 2nd half either. Mendenhall should have had 25+ carries this game. 20 of them should have been between the 20s. That is the approach Arians should have used to get the CBs up and the safeties shallow. Not a couple "Bubble Screens" and then abandon it. The defense dictated "Old School" Steeler football. Which seems to be available when we need it. And I hate to say it but Tomlin could have added his "2 cents" to the conversation too.

You make good points on all subjects but one. Tomlin isn't going to interfere during a game, no coach will, unless there is mounting problems in the head coaches mind, which there isnt according to Tomlin.

JUST-PLAIN-NASTY
11-18-2009, 02:01 PM
I disagree there. Happens every Sunday. Not just Tomlin of course...All HC "should" be observing and directing if necessary. The HC is the boss on the field. He doesn't wait until film day to tell the coach what he should have done. If he doesn't like what is going on he will voice his opinion. Task at hand is to win the game. For 60 minutes they are making adjustments. If you really think that plays and/or adjustments haven't been made during a game with Tomlin's input, direction, and/or ultimate decision...You are mistaken. If you could hear Tomlin for a whole game talking into the headset or in the locker room...He's coaching. Players and coaches. It's his job to make sure Arians and even the great DL is putting the best product on the field. Tomlin has a boss too.

SteelCrazy
11-18-2009, 04:37 PM
I disagree there. Happens every Sunday. Not just Tomlin of course...All HC "should" be observing and directing if necessary. The HC is the boss on the field. He doesn't wait until film day to tell the coach what he should have done. If he doesn't like what is going on he will voice his opinion. Task at hand is to win the game. For 60 minutes they are making adjustments. If you really think that plays and/or adjustments haven't been made during a game with Tomlin's input, direction, and/or ultimate decision...You are mistaken. If you could hear Tomlin for a whole game talking into the headset or in the locker room...He's coaching. Players and coaches. It's his job to make sure Arians and even the great DL is putting the best product on the field. Tomlin has a boss too.

You could be right, as I have not played or coached in the NFL (although I think I am more than capable...ah-em), but it seems to me that Tomlin isn't that type of coach...I just want Bruce to do what he is paid to do.

JUST-PLAIN-NASTY
11-18-2009, 06:48 PM
I disagree there. Happens every Sunday. Not just Tomlin of course...All HC "should" be observing and directing if necessary. The HC is the boss on the field. He doesn't wait until film day to tell the coach what he should have done. If he doesn't like what is going on he will voice his opinion. Task at hand is to win the game. For 60 minutes they are making adjustments. If you really think that plays and/or adjustments haven't been made during a game with Tomlin's input, direction, and/or ultimate decision...You are mistaken. If you could hear Tomlin for a whole game talking into the headset or in the locker room...He's coaching. Players and coaches. It's his job to make sure Arians and even the great DL is putting the best product on the field. Tomlin has a boss too.

You could be right, as I have not played or coached in the NFL (although I think I am more than capable...ah-em), but it seems to me that Tomlin isn't that type of coach...I just want Bruce to do what he is paid to do.

You could be correct in assuming Tomlin has a different approach to getting his point across. Tomlin came into a pretty good situation where he really didn't have to put his systems in place by retaining coordinators and/or position coaches to promote in within. He might not be Holmgren like in forcing his understanding in his players and coaches but his no-nonsense / production approach is expected in his his players as well as his coaches. I don't think he even hesitates to give his input in any of the three areas. His demeanor on the sideline and the way he presents himself when he speaks tells me he is a confident man. He wouldn't expect any criticism or "stepping on the toes" of any of his coaches to influence his relationship with them or be counter productive to the team. I don't think he would keep them around if it did. Just my take...

SteelCrazy
11-19-2009, 09:00 PM
Ben just let the world know that Bruce, not him called the plays on the final drive that resulted in an 0-4 performance. This confirms suspicions that Bruce sucks!

The Bills need a coach and I am writing a letter of recommendation for Bruce.... :D

RuthlessBurgher
11-19-2009, 09:24 PM
Ben just let the world know that Bruce, not him called the plays on the final drive that resulted in an 0-4 performance. This confirms suspicions that Bruce sucks!

The Bills need a coach and I am writing a letter of recommendation for Bruce.... :D

No way! Let BURGH86STEEL and sd steel write it! :wink:

SteelCrazy
11-19-2009, 09:32 PM
Ben just let the world know that Bruce, not him called the plays on the final drive that resulted in an 0-4 performance. This confirms suspicions that Bruce sucks!

The Bills need a coach and I am writing a letter of recommendation for Bruce.... :D

No way! Let BURGH86STEEL and sd steel write it! :wink:

:Clap :Clap :Clap :Clap :Clap :HeadBanger :lol:

sd steel
11-20-2009, 03:01 AM
Ben just let the world know that Bruce, not him called the plays on the final drive that resulted in an 0-4 performance. This confirms suspicions that Bruce sucks!

The Bills need a coach and I am writing a letter of recommendation for Bruce.... :D

No way! Let BURGH86STEEL and sd steel write it! :wink:

:Clap :Clap :Clap :Clap :Clap :HeadBanger :lol:

I wouldn't write a recommendation letter for anyone!...other than myself. Like I said I'm not a fan of Arians, nor of Ben. I am a fan of the Steelers! I'm just pointing you guys who have never played sports or football in the right direction of who to blame when we lose. :Cheers

stlrz d
11-20-2009, 09:40 AM
:roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:

SteelCrazy
11-20-2009, 09:45 AM
Ben just let the world know that Bruce, not him called the plays on the final drive that resulted in an 0-4 performance. This confirms suspicions that Bruce sucks!

The Bills need a coach and I am writing a letter of recommendation for Bruce.... :D

No way! Let BURGH86STEEL and sd steel write it! :wink:

:Clap :Clap :Clap :Clap :Clap :HeadBanger :lol:

I wouldn't write a recommendation letter for anyone!...other than myself. Like I said I'm not a fan of Arians, nor of Ben. I am a fan of the Steelers! I'm just pointing you guys who have never played sports or football in the right direction of who to blame when we lose. :Cheers

I played football sonny boy.........I would have liked to have you in my locker room. I would have taped your buns together

papillon
11-20-2009, 10:04 AM
I also rewatched the game. My opinion remains the same. Arians deserves alot of the blame. Play calling puts players in the right spots on the field and Arians didn't put the WRs in the right spots. The Bengals were telling Arains what they would give him and he continued to push the issue downfield. The Bengals were not going to give up the big play. The Steelers needed to have patience and take what was given. 18-40 in a one posession game is all you have to know. 4 Red Zone trips and all FGs. 1 of the 18 attempts was a Ben scramble. So realisticly 17-41. 71% passing to 29% rushing...In a one posession game. 12 of the total 18 rushes were when the Steelers got into Bengals territory. That's 67% of the rushes. 8 of those rushes came when the Steelers were inside the 30. 5 attempts to Mendenhall in the red zone that net -2 yards. Does anyone think they could gameplan against that???

The other reason the Steelers lost was...Heart. They used it up in Denver and it didn't refill in the short week. No swagger on D and just going through the motions on O. 2 combinations that would get you a loss against a loosing team let alone a contender. The Steelers were lucky to walk away from this one with some pride. It could have been ugly if the defense played like the O. Thank God for DL! He at least got the players in the right position to make a play even though they were a step late.

Devil's advocate here...Don't most passing plays (except for hail Mary types) have underneath options? Maybe, the correct play was called, but the wrong receiver or option was selected by Ben? Maybe, the WRs read the defense differently than Ben and ran the deeper routes instead of taking the 7-8 yard digs and outs that seemed to be there all day? Maybe, the running backs didn't read the blitz (or lack of) correctly and stayed in to block not giving a Ben a release option? The tight ends seemed to struggle all game and Matt Spaeth in particular.

I simply find it hard to believe that a play would be designed with no intermediate or release options for Ben. Bruce Arians is everybody's whipping boy and an easy target, but he's designed an offense that has made Ben successful based on Ben's style of play. The execution of the plays on gameday are the responsibility of the players during the week. And, I believe that execution was woefully lacking against the Bengals and not Arians play calling.

There may have been a few head scratchers and not being more diligent in the run game is certainly Arians' issue, but by and large the execution was bad by the skill players.

Pappy

stlrz d
11-20-2009, 10:08 AM
Pap, just keep in mind that QBs go through progressions...if you are not open when the QB looks your way then unless he has time to look back your way then fagedaboudit.

papillon
11-20-2009, 10:43 AM
Pap, just keep in mind that QBs go through progressions...if you are not open when the QB looks your way then unless he has time to look back your way then fagedaboudit.

That's fine, all I'm saying is that plays are designed (I believe) to attack at all levels of the defense and not just the deep secondary or just the intermediate range or just the shallow area. The implication was (and, of course, I could be reading it wrong again) was that Bruce Arians was calling plays to attack only the deep secondary. All I'm saying is that there are other options and reads that each and every skill position player can make to take advantage of the defense.

I guess, in reality, I defend Bruce Arians and am probably one of the few who will. Unless, it can be proven that he designs and calls plays that simply attack the deep areas of the defense I have to believe that execution played a much, much larger role in the loss to the Bengals than Bruce Arians' play design and play calling.

Just because other teams don't covet Bruce Arians doesn't mean that he isn't any good, which is another argument that is bandied about here quite frequently.

Pappy

sd steel
11-20-2009, 11:23 AM
Ben just let the world know that Bruce, not him called the plays on the final drive that resulted in an 0-4 performance. This confirms suspicions that Bruce sucks!

The Bills need a coach and I am writing a letter of recommendation for Bruce.... :D

No way! Let BURGH86STEEL and sd steel write it! :wink:

:Clap :Clap :Clap :Clap :Clap :HeadBanger :lol:

I wouldn't write a recommendation letter for anyone!...other than myself. Like I said I'm not a fan of Arians, nor of Ben. I am a fan of the Steelers! I'm just pointing you guys who have never played sports or football in the right direction of who to blame when we lose. :Cheers

I played football sonny boy.........I would have liked to have you in my locker room. I would have taped your buns together

You don't even have hair on your balls yet. Start commenting when you hit puberty.

RuthlessBurgher
11-20-2009, 11:31 AM
Okay, gentlemen.

We don't need to get into personal attacks involving the administration of tape to the rectal area or the presence or absence of pubic hair here.

Let's settle down and be grown-ups about this, okay? Thanks.

fezziwig
11-20-2009, 11:41 AM
Bengals did a good job against a stupid Arians

SteelCrazy
11-20-2009, 01:39 PM
Okay, gentlemen.

We don't need to get into personal attacks involving the administration of tape to the rectal area or the presence or absence of pubic hair here.

Let's settle down and be grown-ups about this, okay? Thanks.

Mine was a movie quote, from "The Breakfast Club".....I thought it was funny. I wasn't trying to get personal. My apologies..........

RuthlessBurgher
11-20-2009, 03:20 PM
Okay, gentlemen.

We don't need to get into personal attacks involving the administration of tape to the rectal area or the presence or absence of pubic hair here.

Let's settle down and be grown-ups about this, okay? Thanks.

Mine was a movie quote, from "The Breakfast Club".....I thought it was funny. I wasn't trying to get personal. My apologies..........

Do you really want to be Emilio Estevez, though? At least go Judd Nelson there... :wink:

SteelCrazy
11-20-2009, 06:06 PM
Okay, gentlemen.

We don't need to get into personal attacks involving the administration of tape to the rectal area or the presence or absence of pubic hair here.

Let's settle down and be grown-ups about this, okay? Thanks.

Mine was a movie quote, from "The Breakfast Club".....I thought it was funny. I wasn't trying to get personal. My apologies..........

Do you really want to be Emilio Estevez, though? At least go Judd Nelson there... :wink:


Maybe you're right, "Smoke up Johnny!"

Djfan
11-21-2009, 02:59 PM
Are we allowed to say that we wish someone would tape BA's buns together?

RuthlessBurgher
11-21-2009, 07:46 PM
Are we allowed to say that we wish someone would tape BA's buns together?

And afterwards, when I'm sitting in Rooney's office, all I could think about was Arians' father and Bruce having to go home and explain what happened to him. And the humiliation - the @#$%ing humiliation he must have felt. It must have been unreal. I mean, how... how do you apologize for something like that? There's no way.

feltdizz
11-21-2009, 07:50 PM
Forgot to mention one other irratation. With Cinci mostly in man coverage why not run the 'bunch' formation with a RB dragging behind? The WRs clear the DBs out and all Mendy or Moore need to do is make that first LB miss for a big gain. How many passes to the RB did we even try?

lol.. Seriously? Ben only throws to the RB's if a guy or 2 are hanging on him. So many times the RB's are wide open with room to run and Ben prefers to go deep....

It works most times but when it doesn't it's frustrating.

Djfan
11-22-2009, 12:19 PM
I have to say that I am enjoying this thread. I have actually moved on my opinion a bit. I used to think that BA is a turd. Now I think that BA is a turd, AND Ben still has some learning to do as a pro.

But, to those who think we should quit talking about it because it's been hashed and rehashed, I beg to differ.

When it has 78,583 views and 6,593 replies, it is obviously an issue that many of us here feel strongly about. So, it needs to be discussed.

feltdizz
11-22-2009, 01:25 PM
Big Ben could drive into a parade drunk, marry Tela Tequila, miss the team bus amd show up late to the SB and throw 4 INT's on his first 4 pass attempts and Arians would still get the blame for the loss.

When Ben had 3 first half INT's in the playoffs Tomlins first year vs the Jags and half the fans blamed the D and Tomlin for the loss it says something about Steeler fans. We have waited so long for the next Bradshaw we are making sure we don't run him out of town.

stlrz d
11-22-2009, 01:37 PM
Big Ben could drive into a parade drunk, marry Tela Tequila, miss the team bus amd show up late to the SB and throw 4 INT's on his first 4 pass attempts and Arians would still get the blame for the loss.

When Ben had 3 first half INT's in the playoffs Tomlins first year vs the Jags and half the fans blamed the D and Tomlin for the loss it says something about Steeler fans. We have waited so long for the next Bradshaw we are making sure we don't run him out of town.

Apparently you didn't see the threads about what took place in Utah or Nevada...wherever the hell that fleabag motel is located.

But please continue with the hyperbole.

Ben got credit (and rightly so) for fighting back and digging out of the hole he put the team in against the Jags.

SteelCrazy
11-22-2009, 01:59 PM
I have to say that I am enjoying this thread. I have actually moved on my opinion a bit. I used to think that BA is a turd. Now I think that BA is a turd, AND Ben still has some learning to do as a pro.

But, to those who think we should quit talking about it because it's been hashed and rehashed, I beg to differ.

When it has 78,583 views and 6,593 replies, it is obviously an issue that many of us here feel strongly about. So, it needs to be discussed.


I agree that Ben needs to learn a few more things, however, at this point, I believe he is who he is at this point in his career and we will not see much change from him or his game.

That is where an imaginative, unpredictable OC is needed. I dont believe Bruce is capable of straying to far from his original thought or game plan. It's like he thinks he is the Jerome Bettis of OC's and is going to force his will on the opposition.

IMHO, I believe Bruce is no more than a position coach in the NFL because he lacks the creative nature that brings success to coordinator's, such as BIG BAD WORD LeBeau.

DJFan, thread of the year? :D

SteelCrazy
11-22-2009, 05:28 PM
3rd n 2 and Bruce calls for a sweep and we are in position to kick a fg. You don't run sweep's or tosses that have potential to lose yards. if you must run, run between the tackles....My point about Arians being a boob is solidified here again today.

feltdizz
11-22-2009, 05:42 PM
3rd n 2 and Bruce calls for a sweep and we are in position to kick a fg. You don't run sweep's or tosses that have potential to lose yards. if you must run, run between the tackles....My point about Arians being a boob is solidified here again today.

bad call... but did we lose 10 yards on that play? The other kicker was kicking it out the endzone.. did the sweep really put us out of position? I was on a justin feed and it wasn't the clearest

feltdizz
11-22-2009, 05:46 PM
Big Ben could drive into a parade drunk, marry Tela Tequila, miss the team bus amd show up late to the SB and throw 4 INT's on his first 4 pass attempts and Arians would still get the blame for the loss.

When Ben had 3 first half INT's in the playoffs Tomlins first year vs the Jags and half the fans blamed the D and Tomlin for the loss it says something about Steeler fans. We have waited so long for the next Bradshaw we are making sure we don't run him out of town.

Apparently you didn't see the threads about what took place in Utah or Nevada...wherever the hell that fleabag motel is located.

But please continue with the hyperbole.

Ben got credit (and rightly so) for fighting back and digging out of the hole he put the team in against the Jags.

The D played lights out in the second half and gave Ben 2 or 3 more chances to make magic happen. But yeah.. continue praising Ben for leading us out of a whole he helped put us in. He was great on D.. I loved his INT's and sacks... LOL!!

Ben had a good second half but I really love how he gets ALL the credit for the comeback..

Shame how some fans look for scapegoats when the star has a bad outing. 500 plus yards on O.. 3 TD passes but 2 INT's by Ben.. one for a 14 point swing... yet we will hear how one playcall by Arians lost the game for us..

eniparadoxgma
11-22-2009, 05:48 PM
I'm pretty sure that this loss isn't on Arians. The blame should clearly rest on the shoulders of Reed, who did not run out on the field to make the tackles necessary to keep the Chiefs out of FG range on that last drive. 8)

stlrz d
11-22-2009, 05:51 PM
Big Ben could drive into a parade drunk, marry Tela Tequila, miss the team bus amd show up late to the SB and throw 4 INT's on his first 4 pass attempts and Arians would still get the blame for the loss.

When Ben had 3 first half INT's in the playoffs Tomlins first year vs the Jags and half the fans blamed the D and Tomlin for the loss it says something about Steeler fans. We have waited so long for the next Bradshaw we are making sure we don't run him out of town.

Apparently you didn't see the threads about what took place in Utah or Nevada...wherever the hell that fleabag motel is located.

But please continue with the hyperbole.

Ben got credit (and rightly so) for fighting back and digging out of the hole he put the team in against the Jags.

The D played lights out in the second half and gave Ben 2 or 3 more chances to make magic happen. But yeah.. continue praising Ben for leading us out of a whole he helped put us in. He was great on D.. I loved his INT's and sacks... LOL!!

Ben had a good second half but I really love how he gets ALL the credit for the comeback..

Shame how some fans look for scapegoats when the star has a bad outing. 500 plus yards on O.. 3 TD passes but 2 INT's by Ben.. one for a 14 point swing... yet we will hear how one playcall by Arians lost the game for us..

Who gave him all the credit? I said he deserves credit for not giving up and fighting back.

Or would you rather he just give up?

:wft

feltdizz
11-22-2009, 05:57 PM
Shame how some fans look for scapegoats when the star has a bad outing. 500 plus yards on O.. 3 TD passes but 2 INT's by Ben.. one for a 14 point swing... yet we will hear how one playcall by Arians lost the game for us..

Who gave him all the credit? I said he deserves credit for not giving up and fighting back.

Or would you rather he just give up?

:wft

:wft is right.. I expect Ben to keep playing.. it's what he is paid 100 million to do..

stlrz d
11-22-2009, 06:05 PM
Shame how some fans look for scapegoats when the star has a bad outing. 500 plus yards on O.. 3 TD passes but 2 INT's by Ben.. one for a 14 point swing... yet we will hear how one playcall by Arians lost the game for us..

Who gave him all the credit? I said he deserves credit for not giving up and fighting back.

Or would you rather he just give up?

:wft

:wft is right.. I expect Ben to keep playing.. it's what he is paid 100 million to do..

And that's what he did, and he did it well.

But you give him no credit for that.

His opponents are being paid to play too.

Think about it....

grotonsteel
11-22-2009, 06:12 PM
Shame how some fans look for scapegoats when the star has a bad outing. 500 plus yards on O.. 3 TD passes but 2 INT's by Ben.. one for a 14 point swing... yet we will hear how one playcall by Arians lost the game for us..

Who gave him all the credit? I said he deserves credit for not giving up and fighting back.

Or would you rather he just give up?

:wft

:wft is right.. I expect Ben to keep playing.. it's what he is paid 100 million to do..

Just because Big ben is paid 100 million dollars ypou are going to blame him for the loss????? :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:

How about Steelers D??? They freaking laid a big egg. How come i have never seen you criticize Steelers D even once?

Ben Hater....

SteelCrazy
11-22-2009, 06:22 PM
The D played good until the end.......This loss today was a total team loss. Everyone is responsible for today. Wallace fumbles...Ben throws 2 picks....ST's again gives up a TD...Bruce Arians calls another horrible game.....Everybody sucked....Arians is just part of it today, but he is every week and thats why he needs to be fired

bostonsteeler
11-22-2009, 06:28 PM
BA is as unimaginative as they come.
But if Ben doesn't throw a 10point-swing pick in the EZ, its game over.

If ST doesn't set a 7-point return to start the game, we win.

Yes, BA stinks bad. But this was a team egg.

stlrz d
11-22-2009, 06:29 PM
The D played good until the end.......This loss today was a total team loss. Everyone is responsible for today. Wallace fumbles...Ben throws 2 picks....ST's again gives up a TD...Bruce Arians calls another horrible game.....Everybody sucked....Arians is just part of it today, but he is every week and thats why he needs to be fired

One of those picks was on Heath.

That one sucked...ball was totally catchable.

Steel Life
11-22-2009, 07:24 PM
Some of you guys can say all you want, but Ben & his style have brought us more championships combined than all the Malone's, O'Donnell's, Stewart's, Tomzack's & Maddox's of the world...not to mention Manning, Rivers, Brees, Romo & Rogers - he may not be perfect, but he's our QB & as long as he's here I'll back him.