If the NFL was like the MLB...

[flippy]

The Giants would be spending $515M on their payroll and they could buy a SuperBowl just like the Yankees bought another World Series title.

They could pretty much sign the All Pro team from last season.

And they'd all be on roids.

They'd probably play a team like the Jets in the SuperBowl with their $300M payroll.

We'd be looking to dump salaries pretty soon.

We'd probably send Ben to the Giants for their starting FB and a 6th and 7th round draft pick.

And we'd hear it was a good trade cause we got a starter and a couple of young prospects.

We'd be packing up Troy, Harrison, and Timmons and sending them to the Jets for Jim Leonard, Kellen Clemens, Larry Izzo, and a 7th rounder.

And we'd come up with cool slogans like "We believe" in Charlie Batch.

Mike Tomlin, Dick Lebeau, etc would be gone too.

And we'd probably have someone like Jim Zorn leading the way for us.

It'd be great.

The Giants would have more SuperBowl titles than the next 3 teams combined within the next decade or so.

And those titles would be meaningful.

Congrats to the Yankees!

Their win is about as meaningful as a professional boxer knocking out a 3rd grader.

I'm so glad the NFL doesn't suck like baseball.

[ikestops85]

If the NFL was like MLB then


the season would be over and I would be so sad ... :cry:

[Oviedo]

The Giants would be spending $515M on their payroll and they could buy a SuperBowl just like the Yankees bought another World Series title.

They could pretty much sign the All Pro team from last season.

And they'd all be on roids.

They'd probably play a team like the Jets in the SuperBowl with their $300M payroll.

We'd be looking to dump salaries pretty soon.

We'd probably send Ben to the Giants for their starting FB and a 6th and 7th round draft pick.

And we'd hear it was a good trade cause we got a starter and a couple of young prospects.

We'd be packing up Troy, Harrison, and Timmons and sending them to the Jets for Jim Leonard, Kellen Clemens, Larry Izzo, and a 7th rounder.

And we'd come up with cool slogans like "We believe" in Charlie Batch.

Mike Tomlin, bad word Lebeau, etc would be gone too.

And we'd probably have someone like Jim Zorn leading the way for us.

It'd be great.

The Giants would have more SuperBowl titles than the next 3 teams combined within the next decade or so.

And those titles would be meaningful.

Congrats to the Yankees!

Their win is about as meaningful as a professional boxer knocking out a 3rd grader.

I'm so glad the NFL doesn't suck like baseball.

This may not be a far fetched vision if the new CBA does not keep the salary cap. You have a group of billionaire owners who can generate non-football revenue and divert that to their teams that owners like the Rooney's. This is why I was always concerned about the Rooney's adding a debt load to the franchise to buy out the brothers.

It may take a decade, but if the cap goes away the NFL will become like baseball and begin a slow death.

[Sugar]

The Giants would be spending $515M on their payroll and they could buy a SuperBowl just like the Yankees bought another World Series title.

They could pretty much sign the All Pro team from last season.

And they'd all be on roids.

They'd probably play a team like the Jets in the SuperBowl with their $300M payroll.

We'd be looking to dump salaries pretty soon.

We'd probably send Ben to the Giants for their starting FB and a 6th and 7th round draft pick.

And we'd hear it was a good trade cause we got a starter and a couple of young prospects.

We'd be packing up Troy, Harrison, and Timmons and sending them to the Jets for Jim Leonard, Kellen Clemens, Larry Izzo, and a 7th rounder.

And we'd come up with cool slogans like "We believe" in Charlie Batch.

Mike Tomlin, bad word Lebeau, etc would be gone too.

And we'd probably have someone like Jim Zorn leading the way for us.

It'd be great.

The Giants would have more SuperBowl titles than the next 3 teams combined within the next decade or so.

And those titles would be meaningful.

Congrats to the Yankees!

Their win is about as meaningful as a professional boxer knocking out a 3rd grader.

I'm so glad the NFL doesn't suck like baseball.

I'm glad the NFL doesn't suck, but football is just better than baseball at any level anyway. It wouldn't matter if they had a salary cap, MLB cannot be as good because it's baseball.

Congrats to the Yankee's alright, but it's just baseball- no big deal.

[RuthlessBurgher]

The Giants would be spending $515M on their payroll and they could buy a SuperBowl just like the Yankees bought another World Series title.

They could pretty much sign the All Pro team from last season.

And they'd all be on roids.

They'd probably play a team like the Jets in the SuperBowl with their $300M payroll.

We'd be looking to dump salaries pretty soon.

We'd probably send Ben to the Giants for their starting FB and a 6th and 7th round draft pick.

And we'd hear it was a good trade cause we got a starter and a couple of young prospects.

We'd be packing up Troy, Harrison, and Timmons and sending them to the Jets for Jim Leonard, Kellen Clemens, Larry Izzo, and a 7th rounder.

And we'd come up with cool slogans like "We believe" in Charlie Batch.

Mike Tomlin, bad word Lebeau, etc would be gone too.

And we'd probably have someone like Jim Zorn leading the way for us.

It'd be great.

The Giants would have more SuperBowl titles than the next 3 teams combined within the next decade or so.

And those titles would be meaningful.

Congrats to the Yankees!

Their win is about as meaningful as a professional boxer knocking out a 3rd grader.

I'm so glad the NFL doesn't suck like baseball.

This may not be a far fetched vision if the new CBA does not keep the salary cap. You have a group of billionaire owners who can generate non-football revenue and divert that to their teams that owners like the Rooney's. This is why I was always concerned about the Rooney's adding a debt load to the franchise to buy out the brothers.

It may take a decade, but if the cap goes away the NFL will become like baseball and begin a slow death.

If that happened, it would suck, but at least there would still be revenue sharing of the T.V. money, which is the major cash cow for the league, so it would never be to the degree of baseball where the Yankees spend more than $200 million and Marlins spend less than $40 million.

Plus, I think there are only a handful of rogue owners like Jerry Jones and Dan Snyder who would be in favor of such a thing. In fact, the team in the biggest market, the Giants, is owned by the Mara family, who always put the best interest of the league first. They are an honorable clan who is very close to the Rooneys (in fact, there have been marriages between the two families, resulting in progeny like this, actress Kate Mara)

http://www.premiere.com.mx/files/u18/kate-mara.jpg

[phillyesq]

The Yankees are all that is wrong with baseball. Their team was nothing more than a group of cheating mercenaries. The Yankees bought this world series, pure and simply. A-Roid and Petite both used roids, and the team had a quarter-billion dollar payroll. The 2-4 hitters were all paid mercenaries, A-Roid was acquired in a salary dump trade w/ TX because nobody else could afford to pay him, they purchased their 1-2 pitchers, it was a joke.

The Phillies built their team the right way -- in a sense, they built a team similar to the way the Steelers did. The core of the lineup was homegrown or castoffs who were adopted and transformed into stars. They brought in a few key pieces via trade, but they gave up real prospects in those moves. Raul Ibanez is kind of like their equivalent of James Farrior -- a well respected vet brought in to fill a need, but not somebody who broke the bank.

Disclaimer: I'm a disappointed Phillies fan.

[RuthlessBurgher]

Coming from the Scranton/Wilkes-Barre area, we got the see the Triple-A team for both the Phillies and the Yankees over the past few years. When we had the Red Barons, we got to see guys like Chase Utley and Ryan Howard grow up right before our eyes. However, since that team moved down to the Allentown-Bethlehem area, becoming the Iron Pigs, and the Yankee farm team moved in, we haven't had the same luxury. Sure, guys like Joba Chamberlain and Phil Hughes were in town briefly, but they are only role players in New York. We got to see the core guys for Philly develop from prospects into stars, while with New York, their stars will always be bought instead of home-grown (the days of Derek Jeter and Bernie Williams coming up through their system appear to be long gone). But since I couldn't care two licks about baseball anyway, it doesn't bother me all that much.

[Djfan]

This is why I can't get into baseball. I just can't stand the way it runs.

That and it's really boring.

[Jom112]

You bunch of haters. I don't like MLB as much as I used to because of big differences in team salaries, BUT I think the Yankee's are not the only culprits.

1. The team does still have a lot of home grown talent - Jeter, Posada, Rivera, Melky, Cano, Gartner, Joba, Hughes, Pettite, Coke, Robertson. 11 players on the roster is a decent number. Both WS teams the Phillies and the Yankees had the same number of home grown talent in their starting batting order: Rollins, Utley, Howard and Ruiz for the Phillies and Jeter, Posada, Melky and Cano for the Yankees. Everyone else came from FA.

2. A lot of the money does go to keeping it's home grown talent. Jeter would probably be making about $6 Mil less anywhere else.

3. All the top teams have a couple of high priced FA or have raided other teams late in the season for good players. Half of the Mets squad, Red Soxs got Beckett, Manny, Big Poppy, Pedro, Schilling and many others through FA. Dodgers and Cubs do that as well. Philles just traded for their best pitcher Cliff Lee late in the season raiding the Indians. So for the Yankees to sign CC and A-Rod I think is in line with what other teams are doing.

I will say though that the Yankees probably have 1 or 2 more players on their roster then what most other teams would by overspending. But it's not ridiculously slanted in their favor as a lot of people want to make it out to be.

You look at their pitching staff and Marte, AJ Burnett, Gaudin (Who didn't pitch) and CC are the only real FA acquisitions there. I'm sure every other team that made the postseason had that many or more pitchers on their roster come from FA...

[fezziwig]

If the NFL becomes like baseball where you buy your championships, so long for me. And yes, it would be the death of the sport in my opinion.

[Ghost]

appreciate what the Yankee's do and I'd LOVE to have their ownership take over the Pirates. I always laugh when people hate them for trying to win within the confines of the rules of MLB. Good for them. Hate MLB - the league is what's allowed this disparity to occur.

If you take the salaries of Teixeira & Rodriquez, these 2 players make more than 3 team's entire payrolls.

Add Jeter to the list and you have 3 Yankees making more than 13 team's entire payrolls.

On there 25 man WS roster, the Yanks had 10 FA's and 5 guys they traded for. Doesn't sound all the home grown to me.

[phillyesq]

appreciate what the Yankee's do and I'd LOVE to have their ownership take over the Pirates. I always laugh when people hate them for trying to win within the confines of the rules of MLB. Good for them. Hate MLB - the league is what's allowed this disparity to occur.

If you take the salaries of Teixeira & Rodriquez, these 2 players make more than 3 team's entire payrolls.

Add Jeter to the list and you have 3 Yankees making more than 13 team's entire payrolls.

On there 25 man WS roster, the Yanks had 10 FA's and 5 guys they traded for. Doesn't sound all the home grown to me.

I think what I hate more than the organization itself is the smug, entitled fan base. When the Phils won in 2008, it was awesome for me, because I had followed parts of that group for 10 years since they were drafted. Watching a group of drafted players come together and win a championship is quite satisfying. As Steelers fans, we know this. :tt2

How can Yankees fans feel good about this? Their team bought the middle of its lineup and the front of the rotation. Great. You found some good mercenaries. Kudos.


1. The team does still have a lot of home grown talent - Jeter, Posada, Rivera, Melky, Cano, Gartner, Joba, Hughes, Pettite, Coke, Robertson. 11 players on the roster is a decent number. Both WS teams the Phillies and the Yankees had the same number of home grown talent in their starting batting order: Rollins, Utley, Howard and Ruiz for the Phillies and Jeter, Posada, Melky and Cano for the Yankees. Everyone else came from FA.

Jom, a few small but relevant distinctions. Victorino was acquired via Rule V draft. Werth was non-tendered and signed with the Phils for near the minimum. He blossomed in Philly. In my mind, they count as close enough to home grown.

With the Yankees, it is also important to point out that they have a huge advantage in the draft. Their is no slotting system in baseball, so players that should go to teams like the Pirates slip because of signability, and the Yankees get top of the draft talent later in the draft because they can meet the salary demands.

[Mel Blount's G]

If you take the salaries of Teixeira & Rodriquez, these 2 players make more than 3 team's entire payrolls.

Add Jeter to the list and you have 3 Yankees making more than 13 team's entire payrolls.
That is mind boggling. I don't like baseball because it was the sport I was least good at and now watching it akin to watching paint dry.

Give me my contact sports - Football and Hockey in second place. And I do hope they do not take the cap off of the NFL, though I do believe it's much harder to "buy" a championship in Football then it is in baseball and other sports. The 'skins have done worse and worse in nearly direct proportion to the amount of "superstars" that they have signed to those mega-money-contracts - mild proof that individual talent alone does not equate to championships.

[Jom112]

Jom, a few small but relevant distinctions. Victorino was acquired via Rule V draft. Werth was non-tendered and signed with the Phils for near the minimum. He blossomed in Philly. In my mind, they count as close enough to home grown.

With the Yankees, it is also important to point out that they have a huge advantage in the draft. Their is no slotting system in baseball, so players that should go to teams like the Pirates slip because of signability, and the Yankees get top of the draft talent later in the draft because they can meet the salary demands.

Thx for the clarification. Looking at the pitching staffs the yankees actually have more home grown talent than the Phillies:

Antonio Bastardo - Home Grown
Joe Blanton
Chad Durbin
Scott Eyre
Cole Hamels - Home Grown
J.A. Happ - Home Grown
Cliff Lee
Brad Lidge
Ryan Madson - Home Grown
Pedro Martinez
Brett Myers - Home Grown
Chan Ho Park

Alfredo Aceves - Home Grown
Brian Bruney
A.J. Burnett
Joba Chamberlain - Home Grown
Phil Coke - Home Grown
Chad Gaudin
Phil Hughes - Home Grown
Damaso Marte
Andy Pettitte - Home Grown
Mariano Rivera - Home Grown
David Robertson - Home Grown
CC Sabathia

Phillies only have 5, while the Yankees have 7. Now I'm trying to say the Yankees didn't buy a lot of players. But I'm just trying to point out that it's not like they went against a team that built their talent from the ground up in the WS.

Teams like the Mets, Cubs, Phillies, Dodgers, Angels and Red Soxs all buy their players as well...

[SteelBucks]

appreciate what the Yankee's do and I'd LOVE to have their ownership take over the Pirates. I always laugh when people hate them for trying to win within the confines of the rules of MLB. Good for them. Hate MLB - the league is what's allowed this disparity to occur.


:Agree

I actually admire the Yankees....they do whatever it takes to win within the rules. I'm still hoping on one glorious day, Mark Cuban will buy the Pirates. I'm tired of the losing and our penny pinching owner.

[RuthlessBurgher]

If you take the salaries of Teixeira & Rodriquez, these 2 players make more than 3 team's entire payrolls.

Add Jeter to the list and you have 3 Yankees making more than 13 team's entire payrolls.
That is mind boggling. I don't like baseball because it was the sport I was least good at and now watching it akin to watching paint dry.

Give me my contact sports - Football and Hockey in second place. And I do hope they do not take the cap off of the NFL, though I do believe it's much harder to "buy" a championship in Football then it is in baseball and other sports. The 'skins have done worse and worse in nearly direct proportion to the amount of "superstars" that they have signed to those mega-money-contracts - mild proof that individual talent alone does not equate to championships.

A Canadian who likes hockey? What are the chances?!?! :lol: Seriously, though...I agree regarding football and hockey. I don't remember the last time I watched an entire baseball or basketball on T.V. (I was probably still in high school), but I watch every Steelers game at probably 90% of all Penguins games...these west-coast road trips are tough; I watched the entire Ducks game the other night but I am tired already and I'm not sure how long I'll make it through the Kings game tonight. I think that the salary cap has also helped out hockey as well. Things were starting to get out of hand a few years ago, but the "new NHL" post-lockout seems to be a much better product on the ice overall.

[flippy]

The Yankees versus the Phillies is like the US fighting France in a war and saying the French are a super power so it was a fair fight.

And on top of it, China, Russia, UK, etc gave the US all their nuclear weapons to help fight the French. And the French got some nuclear weapons from North Korea.

I'm coming from the perspective of my Pirates who in this analogy would be Monaco and don't stand a chance against anyone. We couldn't build a nuclear weapon if we tried. We definitely couldn't afford one either.

And teams like your come and take any scud missle we ever accidentally happen upon.

And as an owner of the Yankees I would not outspend other owners because I would know it will ruin my game and that's worth way more than taking candy from babies.

The Yankees could split their lineup and field 2 playoff teams that would beat most other teams in the league. The Phillies could do the same.

I'm a hater of all teams not in Pittsburgh.

Maybe next year we can take you....

[phillyesq]

The Yankees versus the Phillies is like the US fighting France in a war and saying the French are a super power so it was a fair fight.

And on top of it, China, Russia, UK, etc gave the US all their nuclear weapons to help fight the French. And the French got some nuclear weapons from North Korea.

I'm coming from the perspective of my Pirates who in this analogy would be Monaco and don't stand a chance against anyone. We couldn't build a nuclear weapon if we tried. We definitely couldn't afford one either.

And teams like your come and take any scud missle we ever accidentally happen upon.

And as an owner of the Yankees I would not outspend other owners because I would know it will ruin my game and that's worth way more than taking candy from babies.

The Yankees could split their lineup and field 2 playoff teams that would beat most other teams in the league. The Phillies could do the same.

I'm a hater of all teams not in Pittsburgh.

Maybe next year we can take you....

I think that what happens to teams like the Pirates is a real shame. Any player with talent is traded for prospects upon becoming arbitration eligible. If any of those prospects blossom, they are then traded for more prospects. I would like to see a level playing field in baseball, with a salary cap and a salary floor. Allow the Pirates fans to enjoy guys like McLouth for more than a few seasons. Allow them to see a team grow together from young guys with potential into a winner.

[Mel Blount's G]

If you take the salaries of Teixeira & Rodriquez, these 2 players make more than 3 team's entire payrolls.

Add Jeter to the list and you have 3 Yankees making more than 13 team's entire payrolls.
That is mind boggling. I don't like baseball because it was the sport I was least good at and now watching it akin to watching paint dry.

Give me my contact sports - Football and Hockey in second place. And I do hope they do not take the cap off of the NFL, though I do believe it's much harder to "buy" a championship in Football then it is in baseball and other sports. The 'skins have done worse and worse in nearly direct proportion to the amount of "superstars" that they have signed to those mega-money-contracts - mild proof that individual talent alone does not equate to championships.

A Canadian who likes hockey? What are the chances?!?! :lol: Seriously, though...I agree regarding football and hockey. I don't remember the last time I watched an entire baseball or basketball on T.V. (I was probably still in high school), but I watch every Steelers game at probably 90% of all Penguins games...these west-coast road trips are tough; I watched the entire Ducks game the other night but I am tired already and I'm not sure how long I'll make it through the Kings game tonight. I think that the salary cap has also helped out hockey as well. Things were starting to get out of hand a few years ago, but the "new NHL" post-lockout seems to be a much better product on the ice overall.
Easy Ruth, I'm still just a "Permanent Resident" here and have yet to even apply for citizenship :wink:

[BATMAN]

I think the very reason that the NFL is so well loved by the fans is due to the fairness of its foundation. Every team has to work with the same amount of money so every team, fan feels their day can and will some day arrive.
Want proof ? Just pay attention to a Browns game, their fans still show despite how horrid their teams have been.

If many of us even thought the Pirates could compete in the pay scale, we would watch in hopes too. Baseball is for big cities or big money owners. This intire world series, not one mention of it was made at work, amongst unteen construction workers. As a matter of fact, baseball hasn't been mentioned at all this season.
Football is mentioned practically every day and I contribute this to, the baseball league has screwed things up and the NFL has seen the light.

[papillon]

Being a Pirates fan and knowing on May 1st every year for the past 18 years that the Pirates are out of the playoff hunt I root for the Yankees to win the World Series every year. It's the only way that MLB will take a look at what they are doing and make some changes. As long as teams like the Rays (last year), the Twins (can't remember what year) or some other small market team infiltrates the playoff party MLB will say "Look, if you do it right you can compete with the Yankees."

So, I say, roll Yankees roll until MLB opens it's eyes.

Pappy

[RuthlessBurgher]

[quote=Ghost]If you take the salaries of Teixeira & Rodriquez, these 2 players make more than 3 team's entire payrolls.

Add Jeter to the list and you have 3 Yankees making more than 13 team's entire payrolls.
That is mind boggling. I don't like baseball because it was the sport I was least good at and now watching it akin to watching paint dry.

Give me my contact sports - Football and Hockey in second place. And I do hope they do not take the cap off of the NFL, though I do believe it's much harder to "buy" a championship in Football then it is in baseball and other sports. The 'skins have done worse and worse in nearly direct proportion to the amount of "superstars" that they have signed to those mega-money-contracts - mild proof that individual talent alone does not equate to championships.

A Canadian who likes hockey? What are the chances?!?! :lol: Seriously, though...I agree regarding football and hockey. I don't remember the last time I watched an entire baseball or basketball on T.V. (I was probably still in high school), but I watch every Steelers game at probably 90% of all Penguins games...these west-coast road trips are tough; I watched the entire Ducks game the other night but I am tired already and I'm not sure how long I'll make it through the Kings game tonight. I think that the salary cap has also helped out hockey as well. Things were starting to get out of hand a few years ago, but the "new NHL" post-lockout seems to be a much better product on the ice overall.
Easy Ruth, I'm still just a "Permanent Resident" here and have yet to even apply for citizenship :wink:[/quote:3gi4pxc4]

I saw an episode of "How I Met Your Mother" recently in which Doogie Howser says that there are only two questions on the Canadian citizenship exam: 1. Do you want to be a Canadian? and 2. Are you sure?

You probably just stay for the poutine. :wink:

http://juicymelons.org/~echobunny/Photos/misc/poutine.jpg

[NJ-STEELER]

The Yankees are all that is wrong with baseball. Their team was nothing more than a group of cheating mercenaries. The Yankees bought this world series, pure and simply. A-Roid and Petite both used roids, and the team had a quarter-billion dollar payroll. The 2-4 hitters were all paid mercenaries, A-Roid was acquired in a salary dump trade w/ TX because nobody else could afford to pay him, they purchased their 1-2 pitchers, it was a joke.

The Phillies built their team the right way -- in a sense, they built a team similar to the way the Steelers did. The core of the lineup was homegrown or castoffs who were adopted and transformed into stars. They brought in a few key pieces via trade, but they gave up real prospects in those moves. Raul Ibanez is kind of like their equivalent of James Farrior -- a well respected vet brought in to fill a need, but not somebody who broke the bank.

Disclaimer: I'm a disappointed Phillies fan.


that looks awfly familiar

are you a flyers fan too?

[phillyesq]

that looks awfly familiar

are you a flyers fan too?

Nope. Not much of a hockey fan.

If anything, I root for the Pens, just to annoy the locals here.

[Djfan]

Hockey rocks!

Yes I'm from Canada.

[Lonbull]

appreciate what the Yankee's do and I'd LOVE to have their ownership take over the Pirates. I always laugh when people hate them for trying to win within the confines of the rules of MLB. Good for them. Hate MLB - the league is what's allowed this disparity to occur.

Ghost - I share your sentiment exactly. I can't blame the Yankees for doing everything within the rules to win.

The reason I started following horse racing (Breeder's Cup starts tomorrow!!) is because MLB had become such a disappointment - and I was looking for something to fill the void of the NFL during the months of April - August.

My huge concern for the new CBA is that with the salary cap gone the NFL will slowly slide into what the MLB is now - and that is especially bad for the AFC North Division. If there isn't a way for parity to stay in the NFL - it will be like the 1980's all over again. The NFC will mostly dominate, and the AFC will basically be all about playing just to win the AFC Championship.

L.B.

[rpmpit]

You guys realize that our Steelers are hated almost as much as the Yankees are, right??? And it has nothing to do with how much money both teams spend. Its because both teams have great histories and both teams win. We have a lot more in common with the Yankees than many of you would want to admit.

How often do we look at teams like Washington and Dallas and say, "You can't buy championships." Well, do we believe that or not??

The past few years I've been trying to get into baseball because I want 'pit jr. to be exposed to more sports and decide for himself what he prefers. And if its not football, I'm kicking his ass out :twisted: :lol:

Anyway, living in Jersey it was either the Yankees or Mets. Pretty easy choice for me. The core of this team was built the Steeler way in the mid to late 90's. And the main reason why the high priced free agents were brought in this year was to make a run for another title before George Steinbrenner (sp?) kicks.

[RuthlessBurgher]

You guys realize that our Steelers are hated almost as much as the Yankees are, right??? And it has nothing to do with how much money both teams spend. Its because both teams have great histories and both teams win. We have a lot more in common with the Yankees than many of you would want to admit.

How often do we look at teams like Washington and Dallas and say, "You can't buy championships." Well, do we believe that or not??

The past few years I've been trying to get into baseball because I want 'pit jr. to be exposed to more sports and decide for himself what he prefers. And if its not football, I'm kicking his bad word out :twisted: :lol:

Anyway, living in Jersey it was either the Yankees or Mets. Pretty easy choice for me. The core of this team was built the Steeler way in the mid to late 90's. And the main reason why the high priced free agents were brought in this year was to make a run for another title before George Steinbrenner (sp?) kicks.

Since baseball is more of an individual sport (one batter vs. one pitcher at a time), you can buy a whole bunch of All-Stars and come out with a great squad. In football, you need to know how to build a cohesive unit, rather than putting together your own personal fantasy squad full of big names.

[Chachi]

The Yankees have shown, more often than not, you can't really buy a championship. Sure they won it this time, but, it took them 8 years or so. It was 2002 when the disparity they have in payroll first occurred. Before that, in the 90's and those 4 championships? Those were pre-200 million payroll days. That is when their dominance occurred, with home grown talent (and few high priced FAs).

What their payroll shows is that money can buy you a playoff berth. Since 2002 they have only missed the postseason once and lost 2 world series. That in itself is huge, but as their playoff record has shown since 2002, it guarantees nothing. And as has been mentioned, they play with in the rules. Don't hate the player, hate the game.

If the NFL loses the cap, it will hurt the Steelers, but I don't think as much as everyone thinks. It's not like at the flip of a switch soon as the cap (and resulting minimum) is gone the Rooney's will only spend 50 million on payroll and be the NFL version of the Pirates. They run up against the cap every year. I would suspect they would keep spending as much as they can while still holding onto their "Rooney Rule" (if you will) of not over spending.

Now, giving other teams no restraints, the "rule" the Rooney's live buy will hurt a bit more, but, I think their reputation as an organization will help them as long as they are paying reasonable rates. And the money they save by not being forced to pay veteran minimums will be able to go towards (re)signing the big name players.

Either way, it is all speculation that I don't think will happen. In that, I mean, they may go uncapped for a year or two, but, as I stated above IIRC, no ceiling means no floor, no minimum as well. THAT is what is going to make them stay with the cap. Only a very few players, 5% maybe, the Megastars, would really be effected by the ceiling being taken away, but, take away the floor and the rest of the players will cry foul.

[JTP53609]

in sports i have a few things that really aggrevate me.....
1. high market ego teams, that are loved by the media, example, on espn it says return to glory for the yankees, they were off for 8 years and they were the most covered team by far, they are always full of glory....
2. lebron james....they guy dunks and the whole world has to know about it, i watched highlghts one morning ( i dont know why) and it was all lebron james than they showed the score and they lost....
3. jerry jones....

[rpmpit]

You guys realize that our Steelers are hated almost as much as the Yankees are, right??? And it has nothing to do with how much money both teams spend. Its because both teams have great histories and both teams win. We have a lot more in common with the Yankees than many of you would want to admit.

How often do we look at teams like Washington and Dallas and say, "You can't buy championships." Well, do we believe that or not??

The past few years I've been trying to get into baseball because I want 'pit jr. to be exposed to more sports and decide for himself what he prefers. And if its not football, I'm kicking his bad word out :twisted: :lol:

Anyway, living in Jersey it was either the Yankees or Mets. Pretty easy choice for me. The core of this team was built the Steeler way in the mid to late 90's. And the main reason why the high priced free agents were brought in this year was to make a run for another title before George Steinbrenner (sp?) kicks.

Since baseball is more of an individual sport (one batter vs. one pitcher at a time), you can buy a whole bunch of All-Stars and come out with a great squad. In football, you need to know how to build a cohesive unit, rather than putting together your own personal fantasy squad full of big names.

Agreed that its much easier to build a good team in baseball (if you have the money). But like JTP said, the Yankees (despite their win this season) are a good example of a high payroll not guaranteeing anything. The Mets, who I believe have the second highest payroll in MLB are another good example. They are terrible.

[Oviedo]

appreciate what the Yankee's do and I'd LOVE to have their ownership take over the Pirates. I always laugh when people hate them for trying to win within the confines of the rules of MLB. Good for them. Hate MLB - the league is what's allowed this disparity to occur.


:Agree

I actually admire the Yankees....they do whatever it takes to win within the rules. I'm still hoping on one glorious day, Mark Cuban will buy the Pirates. I'm tired of the losing and our penny pinching owner.

I don't think that Mark Cuban views himself as a Pittsburger anymore. He seems more interested in being part of the social and sports scene in more cosmopolitan cities like Dallas and Chicago.

Don't count on Cuban ever trying to be part of the 'Burgh again.

[phillyesq]

You guys realize that our Steelers are hated almost as much as the Yankees are, right??? And it has nothing to do with how much money both teams spend. Its because both teams have great histories and both teams win. We have a lot more in common with the Yankees than many of you would want to admit.

How often do we look at teams like Washington and Dallas and say, "You can't buy championships." Well, do we believe that or not??

The past few years I've been trying to get into baseball because I want 'pit jr. to be exposed to more sports and decide for himself what he prefers. And if its not football, I'm kicking his bad word out :twisted: :lol:

Anyway, living in Jersey it was either the Yankees or Mets. Pretty easy choice for me. The core of this team was built the Steeler way in the mid to late 90's. And the main reason why the high priced free agents were brought in this year was to make a run for another title before George Steinbrenner (sp?) kicks.

If any time in the World Series was built in the Steeler mold, it was the Phillies. The core of their lineup was developed from within. In 2008, the team was even more homegrown than this year.

The Yankees didn't just bring in a few pieces. They bought the heart of their order and the top of their rotation. Here is their homegrown talent:

Jeter - solid but overrated player. He hit into a clutch dp late in game 5 this year, bailing the Phils out of a jam.
Rivera - lights out, probably best closer ever. I'll give them that.
Posada - above average offensive catcher who is a huge defensive liability.
Pettite - should be noted that he left and then came back. Solid starter.
Cano - incredibly inconsistent, did not show up in the WS.

That group does not win you a championship. They are complimentary pieces. Guys like A-Roid, Teixeria, Damon, Matsui, CC and AJ -- those mercenaries were the backbone of the team.

[Jom112]

If any time in the World Series was built in the Steeler mold, it was the Phillies. The core of their lineup was developed from within. In 2008, the team was even more homegrown than this year.

The Yankees didn't just bring in a few pieces. They bought the heart of their order and the top of their rotation. Here is their homegrown talent:

Jeter - solid but overrated player. He hit into a clutch dp late in game 5 this year, bailing the Phils out of a jam.
Rivera - lights out, probably best closer ever. I'll give them that.
Posada - above average offensive catcher who is a huge defensive liability.
Pettite - should be noted that he left and then came back. Solid starter.
Cano - incredibly inconsistent, did not show up in the WS.

That group does not win you a championship. They are complimentary pieces. Guys like A-Roid, Teixeria, Damon, Matsui, CC and AJ -- those mercenaries were the backbone of the team.

The "core" players on the phillies didn't do well either. Rollins, Howard and Coles all were sub par in this WS.

It was the FA's Jason Werth and Cliff Lee that kept them in it. The only home grown talent that came through was Chase Utley.

And I don't get the Jeter over-rated talk because he grounded into one DP. Utley struck out in the clutch in game 6, it happens. Jeter batted over .400 in the WS, it was because of him, Damon and Matsui mainly that the Yankee's won (From an offensive prospective).

While most of Utley's HR's were solo shots because Rollins and Victarino couldn't get on base, A-Rod and Matsui were hitting 2 run HR's and doubles because Jeter and Damon kept getting on base...

[rpmpit]

If any time in the World Series was built in the Steeler mold, it was the Phillies. The core of their lineup was developed from within. In 2008, the team was even more homegrown than this year.

The Yankees didn't just bring in a few pieces. They bought the heart of their order and the top of their rotation. Here is their homegrown talent:

Jeter - solid but overrated player. He hit into a clutch dp late in game 5 this year, bailing the Phils out of a jam.
Rivera - lights out, probably best closer ever. I'll give them that.
Posada - above average offensive catcher who is a huge defensive liability.
Pettite - should be noted that he left and then came back. Solid starter.
Cano - incredibly inconsistent, did not show up in the WS.

That group does not win you a championship. They are complimentary pieces. Guys like A-Roid, Teixeria, Damon, Matsui, CC and AJ -- those mercenaries were the backbone of the team.

The "core" players on the phillies didn't do well either. Rollins, Howard and Coles all were sub par in this WS.

It was the FA's Jason Werth and Cliff Lee that kept them in it. The only home grown talent that came through was Chase Utley.

And I don't get the Jeter over-rated talk because he grounded into one DP. Utley struck out in the clutch in game 6, it happens. Jeter batted over .400 in the WS, it was because of him, Damon and Matsui mainly that the Yankee's won (From an offensive prospective).

While most of Utley's HR's were solo shots because Rollins and Victarino couldn't get on base, A-Rod and Matsui were hitting 2 run HR's and doubles because Jeter and Damon kept getting on base...


YEAH!!! :lol:

You guys obviously know more about baseball than I do. I was just saying that bringing in FAs usually doesn't guarantee anything. So its not fair to say the Yankees bought this World Series. They've been spending money for a long time, so why haven't then won in the past 8 or 9 years?

And cut me some slack, I've only been a Yankee fan for about 2 years!!! :lol:

[phillyesq]

The "core" players on the phillies didn't do well either. Rollins, Howard and Coles all were sub par in this WS.

It was the FA's Jason Werth and Cliff Lee that kept them in it. The only home grown talent that came through was Chase Utley.

And I don't get the Jeter over-rated talk because he grounded into one DP. Utley struck out in the clutch in game 6, it happens. Jeter batted over .400 in the WS, it was because of him, Damon and Matsui mainly that the Yankee's won (From an offensive prospective).

While most of Utley's HR's were solo shots because Rollins and Victarino couldn't get on base, A-Rod and Matsui were hitting 2 run HR's and doubles because Jeter and Damon kept getting on base...

You are right that the Phils big guns didn't come through this year, but Lee was acquired through a trade, in which the Phils gave up 4 top prospects, and Werth was originally signed to an $800k contract. He was a flier, an afterthought, that the Phils turned into a star.

And last year, the Phils homegrown core, led by Cole Hamels, carried them to a World Series win.

[NJ-STEELER]

that looks awfly familiar

are you a flyers fan too?

Nope. Not much of a hockey fan.

If anything, I root for the Pens, just to annoy the locals here.

be careful not to get too close to some of them philly fans.

your rant i quoted sounded very similiar to a lot of the flyer whining (about how teams are built) when the pens eliminated them last year.


BTW, alphonso soriano (maybe more) was part of a trade that brought Arod to NY.

and if it wasn't the yanks getting him, it would have been the red sox...same with texiera

they're not luring those free agents away from those Smaller Market Teams . they're leaving anyway.....they are battling the bigger market teams for them, specifically their division rival boston

[NJ-STEELER]

and about the "roids"


as seen, baseball has a huge problem with them...... its not just a NYY problem you guys are painting it as once they come to NY, they receive their dope and syringes.

aside from pettite, i'd find it hard to believe that the yanks were the first team they started to juice with.

Arod admitted he did it while in texas.
Giambi was huge out in oakland...where the bash brothers set the precedent years ago
clemens didn't suddenly get big once he became a yankee. he was a skinny kid out of when he pitched for the sox.

didn't ken camminetti die recently from complications from years of steroid abuse? dont think he ever played for the yanks

etc etc

[RuthlessBurgher]

be careful not to get too close to some of them philly fans.

your rant i quoted sounded very similiar to a lot of the flyer whining (about how teams are built) when the pens eliminated them last year.

What is their argument about how the Pens were built? The core of that team was all home-grown (Crosby, Malkin, Fleury, Staal, Kennedy, Talbot, Orpik, Letang, Goligoski, etc.). The supplement these building block pieces with the occassional free agent signing (Fedotenko, Cooke, McKee, Adams, etc.) and the occassional trade (Kunitz, Guerin, Dupuis, etc.).

[NJ-STEELER]

be careful not to get too close to some of them philly fans.

your rant i quoted sounded very similiar to a lot of the flyer whining (about how teams are built) when the pens eliminated them last year.

What is their argument about how the Pens were built? The core of that team was all home-grown (Crosby, Malkin, Fleury, Staal, Kennedy, Talbot, Orpik, Letang, Goligoski, etc.). The supplement these building block pieces with the occassional free agent signing (Fedotenko, Cooke, McKee, Adams, etc.) and the occassional trade (Kunitz, Guerin, Dupuis, etc.).

they like to bring up that the pens management "tanked" a few years when they knew the draft had superstar caliber layers at the top. (malkin, crosby)

they argue that the flyers mngmt tries to go out and win every year. and point to their payroll (before the cap) as evidence. they nearly doubled the payroll of some smaller market teams
basically the exact opposite of what phillie fans are cryin about now

[grotonsteel]

You bunch of haters. I don't like MLB as much as I used to because of big differences in team salaries, BUT I think the Yankee's are not the only culprits.

1. The team does still have a lot of home grown talent - Jeter, Posada, Rivera, Melky, Cano, Gartner, Joba, Hughes, Pettite, Coke, Robertson. 11 players on the roster is a decent number. Both WS teams the Phillies and the Yankees had the same number of home grown talent in their starting batting order: Rollins, Utley, Howard and Ruiz for the Phillies and Jeter, Posada, Melky and Cano for the Yankees. Everyone else came from FA.

2. A lot of the money does go to keeping it's home grown talent. Jeter would probably be making about $6 Mil less anywhere else.

3. All the top teams have a couple of high priced FA or have raided other teams late in the season for good players. Half of the Mets squad, Red Soxs got Beckett, Manny, Big Poppy, Pedro, Schilling and many others through FA. Dodgers and Cubs do that as well. Philles just traded for their best pitcher Cliff Lee late in the season raiding the Indians. So for the Yankees to sign CC and A-Rod I think is in line with what other teams are doing.

I will say though that the Yankees probably have 1 or 2 more players on their roster then what most other teams would by overspending. But it's not ridiculously slanted in their favor as a lot of people want to make it out to be.

You look at their pitching staff and Marte, AJ Burnett, Gaudin (Who didn't pitch) and CC are the only real FA acquisitions there. I'm sure every other team that made the postseason had that many or more pitchers on their roster come from FA...


:Agree


:Clap :Clap :Clap :Clap :Clap :Clap :Clap

[grotonsteel]

Yankees = Baseball

Check the TV Ratings. The Evil Empire Strikes Back...

Go Yankees...

[buckeyehoppy]

To answer the topic statement: I'd find something else to do on Sundays.

Let's be honest here: if the Yanks had to live under the auspices of a salary cap and revenue sharing they wouldn't have sniffed the WS this year...that's reality.

Baseball sucks because, for the last 15 years, they have had an owner (Bud Selig) running the league. The guy is hardly visionary and has done nothing to solve the salary inequity between teams that would level the playing field.

The NFL works because it is a real collective operation. It's all-for-one and one-for-all. And the way the economics of the game work allows for teams like the Steelers to compete every year, so long as they maintain competence as an organization.

If you toss out the salary cap and still have revenue sharing, the blow is softened. But the league will still have it's best players going to the highest bidder. QB needs protection? Just go out and buy the best LT. Running game sucks?: no sweat... just get APete. Just a couple examples, but you get the drift.

Baseball argues that every so often a team like Tampa Bay or Minnesota makes the playoffs or the WS, so the system does work. Yes... and blind squirrels also find acorns. How often do the Yankees and Red Sox get to the playoffs? More often than not. And the league doesn't know how to market themselves w/o the Yankees and Red Sox...that's fact.

Baseball is much different from football in that it is a day-to-day grind for 6 months where football is once a week for 4 months. Doesn't take a brain surgeon to figure out which sport is easier to market under the circumstances. So baseball has a more daunting task at hand than football. So be it. I'll bet that baseball's marketing would be a hell whole of a lot easier if half the teams in the league weren't economically, and, thus, competitively, screwed from the outset of the season.