Redundant Thought Week 7 2009 – Vikings

[redundantman]

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[Lonbull]

Redundantman -

I always enjoy....(and look forward to these posts) thanks for continuing them.

After reading your thoughts, I had two things to add.

1st - Last year if a game came down to the wire - more often than not the Steelers stole the victories. The Super Bowl was a great example, but then again so was the Ravens playoff game before that. Or even the Regular season game against the Chargers.

This season we've felt the sting of another team pulling out a last second victory - and the victory against Minnesota definitely felt more like last season, especially seeing how the defense scored 14 points out of 27.

2nd - I honestly believe that the 2009 Steelers have all the parts to dominate against playoff caliber teams, however they just can't seem to get all of the parts working at the same time.

Stephan Logan - while he's been relatively tame in the regular season, he's certainly been an upgrade for our usual Kick-off and Punt Returns. If he (and the return units) puts it together we'll have great field position.

Our Offense when it's clicking resembles the New Orleans Saints....when it's not clicking it looks more like the Cleveland Browns. If our Offense can just be more consistent (consistently good that is) than we certainly can match up against any defense the NFL currently has.

Great Field position = Better Offense Output...which = the opposite team having to air it out more - and that's where if our Defense could just continue to get pressure on the QB like we know they can - and play solid in the secondary (which with a relatively healthy Polamalu - I believe they can) then we can dominate all 4 quarters of any game.

It just seems that we can't get 4 quarters of solid play out of the Steelers this season. And (IMO) we couldn't get it out of last year's team as well. It's just last year we owned the 4th quarter. This year we've struggled.

L.B.

[Herewegosteelers!]

Great post as usual Red

4. I thought the O was finally getting in gear but it was the Clowns last week. No excuse for just one catch for 3 yards for Hines though.

12. I remember that play by Norm. You would think Skippy would go all out after being such a trouble-maker off the field.

19. Very true.....D has to step up. Maybe Fox will do it a couple more times this year, or even Ziggy might surprise. But the heart of the D has to come up big from now on.

[Jigawatts]

Stephan Logan - while he's been relatively tame in the regular season, he's certainly been an upgrade for our usual Kick-off and Punt Returns. If he (and the return units) puts it together we'll have great field position.

I feel confident in at least the possibility of a return with Logan. Last year when the
opposing team kicked off, I knew we had absolutely no chance of returning one with
Russell back there.

[redundantman]

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[steelsnis]

And if Keyaron Fox wants Timmons job it’s his for the taking.

Redundant,

Loved the recap, but couldn't disagree more about that last statement. Timmons has been excellent these past few games after returning from the ankle injury. Fox is a great insurance policy to have, but no chance he takes Timmons job once he's back and healthy.

[stlrz d]

And if Keyaron Fox wants Timmons job it’s his for the taking.

Redundant,

Loved the recap, but couldn't disagree more about that last statement. Timmons has been excellent these past few games after returning from the ankle injury. Fox is a great insurance policy to have, but no chance he takes Timmons job once he's back and healthy.

:Agree

[SteelAbility]

5. Mendenhall might have the dropsies but he was running well in that game. It looks like the Steelers have a keeper if they get him a handle for that ball.

7. Terrible Steelers offense. Is the Vikes’ defense that good or is the Steelers’ offense that bad?

11. The DEFENSE FINALLY MAKES A PLAY!! WOODLEY!

12. Jeff Reed, I distinctly recall Norm Johnson laying a form tackle on an opposing player attempting to run one of his kicks back during a game … Greg Lloyd came over after the play and wiped some of the blood off his arm onto Norm’s jersey in tribute. Jeff Reed, you are no Norm Johnson.

13. Delay of game DEFENSE?! BTW, Tony Siragusa sure has a nice rack doesn’t he?

18. This game had it all … big plays, lead changes … staunch defense … Crappy officiating … Brett Favre … Should be an instant classic by all measures.

19. I find it significant that on an afternoon when the ghosts of 2008 made an appearance that so did LaMarr Woodley. For the Steelers to repeat they need their defense to be as huge as they were last year. And for the defense to be huge they need their huge players: Harrison, Polamalu and Woodley. With Aaron Smith gone for the year LaMarr Woodley must step up and make a play. And if Keyaron Fox wants Timmons job it’s his for the taking.

Nice read!

5 - 10/69. Why not more carries? It seems like Bruce "overthink the situation" Arians strikes again. Whatever happened to making them prove they could stop it?

7 - Playcalling, IMO. Please take the handcuffs off of Ben.

11 - Been waiting for that all season.

12 - Jeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeezzzzzzzzzzzzzzz! At least make the runner turn back inside there skippy!

13 - Hilarious Siragusa observation there. Goose is almost as good as ... :Boobs ... ok, maybe not.

18 - Agree. Hoping to catch this on NFLN replay.

19 - I'm in your camp with the Fox/Timmons thing. I see Timmons as being much more effective as a situational player. Now that he's in there every down, those monster, energetic pass-rushes (or closing speed on a pass-catcher) are gone on 3rd down.

[Jooser]

9. The Moose was really irritating to Steeler Nation on Sunday. He wanted the Vikes to win so bad is was nauseating. His comments about the refs only added to the dementia that is running rampant on the Ravens' forum. What an a-hole.

[JTP53609]

i agree with the gay tackle, he was kind of falling back before peterson got to him, I really hate how commentators blow super stars up for no apparent reason, and that was one of the times they were, they said peterson had the disadvantage with gay having the advantage to tackle and peterson still ran him over.. :wft ..peterson who outweighs gay by alot is running forward with a full head of steam, gay is set in his position trying slow him down but got run over, it was impressive but its not like it has never happened before......
love the norm johnson tackle on michael jackson in pittsburgh on sunday night football in 97...
the offense did struggle for much of the game, i had no confidence that we would even get to midfield when we had the ball first and 10 at the 9 on our last possesion of the first half...

[redundantman]

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[redundantman]

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[redundantman]

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[redundantman]

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[redundantman]

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[RuthlessBurgher]

5 - 10/69. Why not more carries? It seems like Bruce "overthink the situation" Arians strikes again. Whatever happened to making them prove they could stop it?

7 - Playcalling, IMO. Please take the handcuffs off of Ben.

Arians get blamed, but in one sentence, you want him to call more running plays, but then in the next sentence, you want him to take the handcuffs off of Ben, which seems like you want him to pass more. Which is it?

[Oviedo]

5 - 10/69. Why not more carries? It seems like Bruce "overthink the situation" Arians strikes again. Whatever happened to making them prove they could stop it?

7 - Playcalling, IMO. Please take the handcuffs off of Ben.

Arians get blamed, but in one sentence, you want him to call more running plays, but then in the next sentence, you want him to take the handcuffs off of Ben, which seems like you want him to pass more. Which is it?

I saw the same thing. The "blame Bruce" mafia is getting ridiculous. The reality is in three years Arians has transformed this offense in to the most potent Steelers offense since the late 70s. It is now one that utilizes its best weapons versus adhereing to some nonsensical sense of what "Steelers football" is.

I'm still waiting for anyone on this board to show definitively which plays Arians calls and which are the result of Ben changing it up. Lots of assumptions on the part of LazyBoy experts.

[SteelAbility]

5 - 10/69. Why not more carries? It seems like Bruce "overthink the situation" Arians strikes again. Whatever happened to making them prove they could stop it?

7 - Playcalling, IMO. Please take the handcuffs off of Ben.

Arians get blamed, but in one sentence, you want him to call more running plays, but then in the next sentence, you want him to take the handcuffs off of Ben, which seems like you want him to pass more. Which is it?

Take the handcuffs off of Ben = let Ben do the playcalling (run or pass) as appropriate. I would think Ben has enough horse sense to stick with the 6.9 YPC to help set up his passing game.

[SteelAbility]

5 - 10/69. Why not more carries? It seems like Bruce "overthink the situation" Arians strikes again. Whatever happened to making them prove they could stop it?

7 - Playcalling, IMO. Please take the handcuffs off of Ben.

Arians get blamed, but in one sentence, you want him to call more running plays, but then in the next sentence, you want him to take the handcuffs off of Ben, which seems like you want him to pass more. Which is it?

I saw the same thing. The "blame Bruce" mafia is getting ridiculous. The reality is in three years Arians has transformed this offense in to the most potent Steelers offense since the late 70s. It is now one that utilizes its best weapons versus adhereing to some nonsensical sense of what "Steelers football" is.

I'm still waiting for anyone on this board to show definitively which plays Arians calls and which are the result of Ben changing it up. Lots of assumptions on the part of LazyBoy experts.

Well, I don't recall saying anything about "Steelers Football." I would argue that Ben is the primary reason for the more potent offense, not Arians. We lost 4 of 5 AFCCGs at home under Cowher and Slash. Every single loss was a tightly contested game. How do you think we would have fared in those games with Ben at the helm?

[SteelAbility]

Did you hear Siragusa chime in on the Steelers and how they will keep pounding you with the running game until you stop it? ... Tony Siragusa provides awesome game insights ... from 8 years ago! I'll bet he felt like BMOC all week long in production meetings telling people what the Steelers will do and what their tendencies are ... what a dork.

Yes, I actually did notice that. But I was too mesmerized by his awesome rack to retain the thought for long. :wink:

[JTP53609]

i agree, poor bruce can do nothing right........
why dont we run the ball more?
why dont we let ben control the game more?
why dont we go for the kill?
why did tomlin go for it on fourth and 3 from the bengal 39 instead of punting?
why dont we spruce up the play calling?
why did we run 2 reverses in the first half?

[RuthlessBurgher]

i agree, poor bruce can do nothing right........
why dont we run the ball more?
why dont we let ben control the game more?
why dont we go for the kill?
why did tomlin go for it on fourth and 3 from the bengal 39 instead of punting?
why dont we spruce up the play calling?
why did we run 2 reverses in the first half?

Bruce's offense has the QB with the 2nd most passing yards in the league, the WR with the 2nd most receiving yards in the league, the TE with the 2nd most catches among TE's in the league, a RB that is averaging 5.4 yards per carry, and an o-line that has improved its pass protection greatly. He sucks! FIRE HIM NOW!!! :lol:

He is easily the most underappreciated guy in the league right now. I'm tempted to start a Bruce Arians fan club at this point to counteract the irrational negativity surrounding the guy.

[SteelAbility]

i agree, poor bruce can do nothing right........
why dont we run the ball more?
why dont we let ben control the game more?
why dont we go for the kill?
why did tomlin go for it on fourth and 3 from the bengal 39 instead of punting?
why dont we spruce up the play calling?
why did we run 2 reverses in the first half?

Where did I say anything about any of the above items other than Arians/Ben play calling?

And BTW, on that 4th and 3 in Cincy I was, in fact, thinking that was a foolish give-your-opponent-a-fighting-chance call, while we're at it.

You don't see a problem with not continuing on with a guy who is averaging 6.9 per carry? There are three games now where getting away from what has worked was implemented in a situation where a couple of 1st downs were needed to seal the game. Subsequently the opposing O has driven into scoring position against our tired D (CHI, CIN, MIN). This also happened with Detroit, by the way. The D bailed out with consecutive sacks. There was one game where we got it done in that situation (San Diego). Let's see, if I recall correctly, Mendenhall got that done.

My point is that Arians overthinks things and gets away from things that have been shown to work against a specific opponent. Football 101 ... if it is producing, keep doing it until they prove they can stop it. 6.9 YPC is very good reason to believe it will keep working.

[SteelAbility]

i agree, poor bruce can do nothing right........
why dont we run the ball more?
why dont we let ben control the game more?
why dont we go for the kill?
why did tomlin go for it on fourth and 3 from the bengal 39 instead of punting?
why dont we spruce up the play calling?
why did we run 2 reverses in the first half?

Bruce's offense has the QB with the 2nd most passing yards in the league, the WR with the 2nd most receiving yards in the league, the TE with the 2nd most catches among TE's in the league, a RB that is averaging 5.4 yards per carry, and an o-line that has improved its pass protection greatly. He sucks! FIRE HIM NOW!!! :lol:

He is easily the most underappreciated guy in the league right now. I'm tempted to start a Bruce Arians fan club at this point to counteract the irrational negativity surrounding the guy.

... and that is 1 for 5 in situations where the O, with the lead, can close out the game late in the 4th Q with sustained offense ...

Chicago - Fail
Cincy - Fail
San Diego - Succeeed
Detroit - Fail
Minnesota - Fail

I'm not saying fire the guy. I'm saying temper the guy and be willing to override his playcalling more.

[RuthlessBurgher]

i agree, poor bruce can do nothing right........
why dont we run the ball more?
why dont we let ben control the game more?
why dont we go for the kill?
why did tomlin go for it on fourth and 3 from the bengal 39 instead of punting?
why dont we spruce up the play calling?
why did we run 2 reverses in the first half?

Bruce's offense has the QB with the 2nd most passing yards in the league, the WR with the 2nd most receiving yards in the league, the TE with the 2nd most catches among TE's in the league, a RB that is averaging 5.4 yards per carry, and an o-line that has improved its pass protection greatly. He sucks! FIRE HIM NOW!!! :lol:

He is easily the most underappreciated guy in the league right now. I'm tempted to start a Bruce Arians fan club at this point to counteract the irrational negativity surrounding the guy.

... and that is 1 for 5 in situations where the O, with the lead, can close out the game late in the 4th Q with sustained offense ...

Chicago - Fail
Cincy - Fail
San Diego - Succeeed
Detroit - Fail
Minnesota - Fail

I'm not saying fire the guy. I'm saying temper the guy and be willing to override his playcalling more.

While we are here, LeBeau's defense failed to close out the game late in the 4th quarter for three games in a row against Chicago, Cincy, and San Diego. I don't recall hearing anyone who wanted Mike Tomlin or James Farrior to override his defensive playcalling after those late game failures.

All coaches have their ups and downs, even greats like LeBeau. He hasn't been infallible by any means, but I think Arians has had more ups than downs this season for sure. I've never been overly fond of Arians, but I am willing to give credit where it is due. Those that aren't willing to give any credit to our O.C. for the vast improvements in our offense are apparently either harboring a grudge or just seeing what they want to see (i.e. every good play must have been called by Ben and every bad play must have been called by Bruce).

By the way, SteelAbility...I don't want it to seem like I am attacking you here. You do make some good points. I'm addressing this more to posters in general who refuse to admit that they were wrong about someone (whether it is Arians or Parker or Tomlin or Reed or Holmes or Mendenhall or Sweed or Carey Davis or whatever) and just beat their opinion into the ground in spite of actual evidence to the contrary. I've bashed Arians before. I was wrong. I'm glad that we retained him after the Super Bowl win when so many were calling for Tomlin to do to him what Whisenhunt did to Pendergast. I think Arians is doing a great job so far this year. I'm willing to admit that. And the o-line's been playing great this season as well, something I did not think that I would be saying at this point.

[Oviedo]

i agree, poor bruce can do nothing right........
why dont we run the ball more?
why dont we let ben control the game more?
why dont we go for the kill?
why did tomlin go for it on fourth and 3 from the bengal 39 instead of punting?
why dont we spruce up the play calling?
why did we run 2 reverses in the first half?

Bruce's offense has the QB with the 2nd most passing yards in the league, the WR with the 2nd most receiving yards in the league, the TE with the 2nd most catches among TE's in the league, a RB that is averaging 5.4 yards per carry, and an o-line that has improved its pass protection greatly. He sucks! FIRE HIM NOW!!! :lol:

He is easily the most underappreciated guy in the league right now. I'm tempted to start a Bruce Arians fan club at this point to counteract the irrational negativity surrounding the guy.

... and that is 1 for 5 in situations where the O, with the lead, can close out the game late in the 4th Q with sustained offense ...

Chicago - Fail
Cincy - Fail
San Diego - Succeeed
Detroit - Fail
Minnesota - Fail

I'm not saying fire the guy. I'm saying temper the guy and be willing to override his playcalling more.

While we are here, LeBeau's defense failed to close out the game late in the 4th quarter for three games in a row against Chicago, Cincy, and San Diego. I don't recall hearing anyone who wanted Mike Tomlin or James Farrior to override his defensive playcalling after those late game failures.

All coaches have their ups and downs, even greats like LeBeau. He hasn't been infallible by any means, but I think Arians has had more ups than downs this season for sure. I've never been overly fond of Arians, but I am willing to give credit where it is due. Those that aren't willing to give any credit to our O.C. for the vast improvements in our offense are apparently either harboring a grudge or just seeing what they want to see (i.e. every good play must have been called by Ben and every bad play must have been called by Bruce).

By the way, SteelAbility...I don't want it to seem like I am attacking you here. You do make some good points. I'm addressing this more to posters in general who refuse to admit that they were wrong about someone (whether it is Arians or Parker or Tomlin or Reed or Holmes or Mendenhall or Sweed or Carey Davis or whatever) and just beat their opinion into the ground in spite of actual evidence to the contrary. I've bashed Arians before. I was wrong. I'm glad that we retained him after the Super Bowl win when so many were calling for Tomlin to do to him what Whisenhunt did to Pendergast. I think Arians is doing a great job so far this year. I'm willing to admit that. And the o-line's been playing great this season as well, something I did not think that I would be saying at this point.

:Clap :Clap :Clap

Until this past game Arians' side of the football has outperformed LeBeau's side of the football. Yet Arians is always the problem and LeBeau gets the pass. A little less hypocrisy please.

Pretty interesting that we are now complaining about the offense not doing enough to keep a Steelers offense off the field. Talk about a pardigm shift.

[ikestops85]

I'm addressing this more to posters in general who refuse to admit that they were wrong about someone (whether it is Arians or Parker or Tomlin or Reed or Holmes or Mendenhall or Sweed or Carey Davis or whatever) and just beat their opinion into the ground in spite of actual evidence to the contrary.

What are you trying to say Ruthless? I am never wrong --- I post on a message board :moon

and I'm planning on spending some nights in a Holiday Inn Express. :lol: :lol:

[RuthlessBurgher]

I'm addressing this more to posters in general who refuse to admit that they were wrong about someone (whether it is Arians or Parker or Tomlin or Reed or Holmes or Mendenhall or Sweed or Carey Davis or whatever) and just beat their opinion into the ground in spite of actual evidence to the contrary.

What are you trying to say Ruthless? I am never wrong --- I post on a message board :moon

and I'm planning on spending some nights in a Holiday Inn Express. :lol: :lol:

Your name is ikestops85. You will never be wrong about that. :bungalssuck

[ikestops85]

I'm addressing this more to posters in general who refuse to admit that they were wrong about someone (whether it is Arians or Parker or Tomlin or Reed or Holmes or Mendenhall or Sweed or Carey Davis or whatever) and just beat their opinion into the ground in spite of actual evidence to the contrary.

What are you trying to say Ruthless? I am never wrong --- I post on a message board :moon

and I'm planning on spending some nights in a Holiday Inn Express. :lol: :lol:

Your name is ikestops85. You will never be wrong about that. :bungalssuck

and you don't know how much they hated that name on the bengals board. :)

[redundantman]

deleted...

[JTP53609]

i agree, poor bruce can do nothing right........
why dont we run the ball more?
why dont we let ben control the game more?
why dont we go for the kill?
why did tomlin go for it on fourth and 3 from the bengal 39 instead of punting?
why dont we spruce up the play calling?
why did we run 2 reverses in the first half?

Where did I say anything about any of the above items other than Arians/Ben play calling?

And BTW, on that 4th and 3 in Cincy I was, in fact, thinking that was a foolish give-your-opponent-a-fighting-chance call, while we're at it.

You don't see a problem with not continuing on with a guy who is averaging 6.9 per carry? There are three games now where getting away from what has worked was implemented in a situation where a couple of 1st downs were needed to seal the game. Subsequently the opposing O has driven into scoring position against our tired D (CHI, CIN, MIN). This also happened with Detroit, by the way. The D bailed out with consecutive sacks. There was one game where we got it done in that situation (San Diego). Let's see, if I recall correctly, Mendenhall got that done.

My point is that Arians overthinks things and gets away from things that have been shown to work against a specific opponent. Football 101 ... if it is producing, keep doing it until they prove they can stop it. 6.9 YPC is very good reason to believe it will keep working.

relax, i am not coming down on you personally, i never was pointing anybody out, I am just saying in general how Arians can never do anything right according to most fans. Even when he does do things that people call him out on, he gets ripped apart for that. I think that he has been pretty good for the most part his season. He has balanced out the run game and the pass game, last week it was we threw 26 times and ran 20 times, not to bad, the week before it was something like 36/35....He has mixed it up with reverses, deep balls, outside runs, inside runs, mewlede moore has a touchdown pass for crying out loud. He put the ball in Ben's hands at the end of the SD game instead of play vanilla ball. We cant blame Bruce if Big Ben has an off day or if we fumble inside the 5, or if receivers drop balls, I know he is the scapegoat, and alot of people blame him, but sometimes it is not right...

[SteelAbility]

i agree, poor bruce can do nothing right........
why dont we run the ball more?
why dont we let ben control the game more?
why dont we go for the kill?
why did tomlin go for it on fourth and 3 from the bengal 39 instead of punting?
why dont we spruce up the play calling?
why did we run 2 reverses in the first half?

Where did I say anything about any of the above items other than Arians/Ben play calling?

And BTW, on that 4th and 3 in Cincy I was, in fact, thinking that was a foolish give-your-opponent-a-fighting-chance call, while we're at it.

You don't see a problem with not continuing on with a guy who is averaging 6.9 per carry? There are three games now where getting away from what has worked was implemented in a situation where a couple of 1st downs were needed to seal the game. Subsequently the opposing O has driven into scoring position against our tired D (CHI, CIN, MIN). This also happened with Detroit, by the way. The D bailed out with consecutive sacks. There was one game where we got it done in that situation (San Diego). Let's see, if I recall correctly, Mendenhall got that done.

My point is that Arians overthinks things and gets away from things that have been shown to work against a specific opponent. Football 101 ... if it is producing, keep doing it until they prove they can stop it. 6.9 YPC is very good reason to believe it will keep working.

relax, i am not coming down on you personally, i never was pointing anybody out, I am just saying in general how Arians can never do anything right according to most fans. Even when he does do things that people call him out on, he gets ripped apart for that. I think that he has been pretty good for the most part his season. He has balanced out the run game and the pass game, last week it was we threw 26 times and ran 20 times, not to bad, the week before it was something like 36/35....He has mixed it up with reverses, deep balls, outside runs, inside runs, mewlede moore has a touchdown pass for crying out loud. He put the ball in Ben's hands at the end of the SD game instead of play vanilla ball. We cant blame Bruce if Big Ben has an off day or if we fumble inside the 5, or if receivers drop balls, I know he is the scapegoat, and alot of people blame him, but sometimes it is not right...

Chillaxin. 8)

Agreed. But I'm hungry for 7-0. :tt2

[JTP53609]

i agree, poor bruce can do nothing right........
why dont we run the ball more?
why dont we let ben control the game more?
why dont we go for the kill?
why did tomlin go for it on fourth and 3 from the bengal 39 instead of punting?
why dont we spruce up the play calling?
why did we run 2 reverses in the first half?

Where did I say anything about any of the above items other than Arians/Ben play calling?

And BTW, on that 4th and 3 in Cincy I was, in fact, thinking that was a foolish give-your-opponent-a-fighting-chance call, while we're at it.

You don't see a problem with not continuing on with a guy who is averaging 6.9 per carry? There are three games now where getting away from what has worked was implemented in a situation where a couple of 1st downs were needed to seal the game. Subsequently the opposing O has driven into scoring position against our tired D (CHI, CIN, MIN). This also happened with Detroit, by the way. The D bailed out with consecutive sacks. There was one game where we got it done in that situation (San Diego). Let's see, if I recall correctly, Mendenhall got that done.

My point is that Arians overthinks things and gets away from things that have been shown to work against a specific opponent. Football 101 ... if it is producing, keep doing it until they prove they can stop it. 6.9 YPC is very good reason to believe it will keep working.

relax, i am not coming down on you personally, i never was pointing anybody out, I am just saying in general how Arians can never do anything right according to most fans. Even when he does do things that people call him out on, he gets ripped apart for that. I think that he has been pretty good for the most part his season. He has balanced out the run game and the pass game, last week it was we threw 26 times and ran 20 times, not to bad, the week before it was something like 36/35....He has mixed it up with reverses, deep balls, outside runs, inside runs, mewlede moore has a touchdown pass for crying out loud. He put the ball in Ben's hands at the end of the SD game instead of play vanilla ball. We cant blame Bruce if Big Ben has an off day or if we fumble inside the 5, or if receivers drop balls, I know he is the scapegoat, and alot of people blame him, but sometimes it is not right...

Chillaxin. 8)

Agreed. But I'm hungry for 7-0. :tt2


me too, but 5-2 is not all bad, last year we were 5-2 and we were also 5-2 in 2005....
and a few other years too, but they are not important