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Slapstick
10-12-2009, 04:05 PM
The defense needs to adjust to fit the new offense...whether schematically or personnel wise....or, the offense needs to run the ball more when they have a lead...

The Steelers 3-4 is a pressure defense that works best when the offense controls the ball...we all know this...

The media makes a big deal about the Lions controlling the ball more, which they did...they ran 15 more plays and held the ball for 5 more minutes than the Steelers...

Why? The Lions ran 27 plays in the 3rd quarter as opposed to 5 plays for the Steelers...the bomb to Wallace was great and the Steelers did outscore Detroit 7-0 in that quarter, but it put a tired defense back on the field relatively quickly...furthermore, being on the field for all but 5 plays in the 3rd quarter does you no favors in the 4th...

The Steelers 3-4 is pretty much the same D that LeBeau ran for Cowher back in the 90s...except Cowher ran the Ron Erhardt ball control offense or some variation thereof...

The Steelers' defense is designed to not give up the big play...to force the other team to march methodically drive down the field in order to score...if the pressure isn't getting to the QB or the D allows 3rd down conversions, you have what we've witnessed so far this season...

Maybe Troy coming back will be the magic bullet that cures all of the team's ills...but, I think other adjustments need to be made...

MeetJoeGreene
10-12-2009, 04:36 PM
Interesting assertion.

I don't totally disagree.

But I can remember during Cowher's reign, people on TL would complain when he turtled up after obtaining a lead(even though he rarely lost). A lot of folks wanted to "go for the kill".

This is the new offense in which we could go for the kill. We aren't eating up the clock and we aren't exactly going for the kill.

Mister Pittsburgh
10-12-2009, 05:12 PM
Ben needs to just quit being greedy. Half the sacks he took there was a receiver open 5 or 10 yds downfield that he would look off and go for something longer. I saw multiple plays where our RB were wide open for decent gains and he wouldn't pull the trigger on the pass.

How about the play were he throws to Heath when Hines is running wide in the endzone. I think Ben locks into a WR before the snap and might look him off or whatever, but knows where he wants to go with the ball to the point he will pass up open options to hit his pre play chosen target.

SteelHead
10-12-2009, 05:59 PM
Ben needs to just quit being greedy. Half the sacks he took there was a receiver open 5 or 10 yds downfield that he would look off and go for something longer. I saw multiple plays where our RB were wide open for decent gains and he wouldn't pull the trigger on the pass.

How about the play were he throws to Heath when Hines is running wide in the endzone. I think Ben locks into a WR before the snap and might look him off or whatever, but knows where he wants to go with the ball to the point he will pass up open options to hit his pre play chosen target.


I have to completely disagree here. Ben may have had some check down options in the second half that he missed but Arians playcalling what horrific in the second half as well. He spent too much time calling 5-7 step drops looking for a big play to serve as his dagger in the Lions. He even admitted it.

Ben has really carried this team when you think about it. The "D" has been lackluster , the running game is just starting to find it's rhythm against some second class defenses, and the ST has been just average. Meanwhile.......


73.8 comp% (1st)
1,470 yds (2nd)
8 TD (6th) + 2 rush TD
102.6 QB rating


......Ben will be an MVP candidate this year.

JTP53609
10-13-2009, 08:16 AM
Ben needs to just quit being greedy. Half the sacks he took there was a receiver open 5 or 10 yds downfield that he would look off and go for something longer. I saw multiple plays where our RB were wide open for decent gains and he wouldn't pull the trigger on the pass.

How about the play were he throws to Heath when Hines is running wide in the endzone. I think Ben locks into a WR before the snap and might look him off or whatever, but knows where he wants to go with the ball to the point he will pass up open options to hit his pre play chosen target.


I have to completely disagree here. Ben may have had some check down options in the second half that he missed but Arians playcalling what horrific in the second half as well. He spent too much time calling 5-7 step drops looking for a big play to serve as his dagger in the Lions. He even admitted it.

Ben has really carried this team when you think about it. The "D" has been lackluster , the running game is just starting to find it's rhythm against some second class defenses, and the ST has been just average. Meanwhile.......


73.8 comp% (1st)
1,470 yds (2nd)
8 TD (6th) + 2 rush TD
102.6 QB rating


......Ben will be an MVP candidate this year.


i agree with you, but you know that Ben will never win an MVP, he cant even win MVP on his own team for crying out loud (i am still shocked that he has never won team MVP), cant win MVP in a super bowl when he played lights out, no, he will never win a MVP even though he deserves it because he is the most underrated player in the NFL for some reason,

JUST-PLAIN-NASTY
10-13-2009, 08:37 AM
Well...Seeing the final drive at Detroit and what DL did when they got in the redzone...Hopefully it will change their play calling. We have Big Ben. If we are within one score no matter what happens...Send the heat!!! It was like Tomlin called a TO and sent the first string defense from last season back on the field. No Troy...Who cares...Send the heat!!! Go get Culpepper...Cover behind. I think it ended up 4th & goal from the 30+ and a hail mary to end the game from 1st & goal within the 10. If you want to put it in the defense at the end of the game let the defense do what it does best. No Cover 2 - umbrella - prevent - $hit....Show blitz & Man...And go get the QB! If they score...So be it! More time on the clock and the ball in Ben's hands...9 times out of 10 Ben will bring it home!

Jooser
10-13-2009, 08:42 AM
Our shoddy defensive play as of late has nothing to do with Ben or the offense. We've played conservatively, and not brought the heat. When we finally unchained the dogs at the end of the game, we saw flashes of last year. We can still score 30 points a game and have great defense. I look for the D to step it up against the stains.

JTP53609
10-13-2009, 08:46 AM
Our shoddy defensive play as of late has nothing to do with Ben or the offense. We've played conservatively, and not brought the heat. When we finally unchained the dogs at the end of the game, we saw flashes of last year. We can still score 30 points a game and have great defense. I look for the D to step it up against the stains.


i love lebeau but i know me and everyone else have been waiting to see these blitz packages finally come to good use, he used 3 straight blitzes on the last defensive stand it worked, i know the blitz can burn you just as easy it can help you but please we need to put more pressure on the qb all game long

Oviedo
10-13-2009, 09:01 AM
Our shoddy defensive play as of late has nothing to do with Ben or the offense. We've played conservatively, and not brought the heat. When we finally unchained the dogs at the end of the game, we saw flashes of last year. We can still score 30 points a game and have great defense. I look for the D to step it up against the stains.

:Agree

The weaklink has been Woodley. He isn't getting it done this year. Not sure what his issue is but he is underperforming.

The inside blitz ability that Timmons provides is huge and it is not being utilized enough IMO.

Jooser
10-13-2009, 09:08 AM
Our shoddy defensive play as of late has nothing to do with Ben or the offense. We've played conservatively, and not brought the heat. When we finally unchained the dogs at the end of the game, we saw flashes of last year. We can still score 30 points a game and have great defense. I look for the D to step it up against the stains.

:Agree

The weaklink has been Woodley. He isn't getting it done this year. Not sure what his issue is but he is underperforming.

The inside blitz ability that Timmons provides is huge and it is not being utilized enough IMO.

I don't think it's Woodley as much as it's the scheme and the way they're using Woodley, O. Woodley (& Deebo too) are being dropped into pass coverage way too much. When we do decide to blitz, we seem to be lining up someone next to Wood to do some sort of stunt - almost using Wood as a decoy. I think we'll see him come on as the year moves forward, but the defensive scheme needs some adjustment IMO.

JTP53609
10-13-2009, 09:13 AM
well even though debo was not putting up numbers in the beginning of the year you knew he was okay because he was (A) getting held almost every other play and (B) still getting pressure on the qb, with woodley, he just looks slow and out of shape IMO

MaxAMillion
10-13-2009, 09:20 AM
Someone help me understand, how was last year's crappy offense a benefit to the defense, while this year's offense is a hindrance? The team couldn't move the ball or score for quarters at a time and that didn't stop the defense from playing well.

Last I checked, there is no rule that prevents the Steeler defense from making the other teams offense go three and out. When the Steelers go three and out it is a terrible thing that somehow prevents the defense from playing well? The defense can no longer cause turnovers or stop the opponent unless the offense holds the ball for long drives? That is a load of crap.

This offense is not preventing the defense from playing well.

frankthetank1
10-13-2009, 09:39 AM
Someone help me understand, how was last year's crappy offense a benefit to the defense, while this year's offense is a hindrance? The team couldn't move the ball or score for quarters at a time and that didn't stop the defense from playing well.

Last I checked, there is no rule that prevents the Steeler defense from making the other teams offense go three and out. When the Steelers go three and out it is a terrible thing that somehow prevents the defense from playing well? The defense can no longer cause turnovers or stop the opponent unless the offense holds the ball for long drives? That is a load of crap.

This offense is not preventing the defense from playing well.

exactly its stupid to put any of the blame this season on the offense. if the defense could get off the field on 3rd downs this wouldnt be brought up. next people will be blaming the offense for scoring too quickly :lol:

JUST-PLAIN-NASTY
10-13-2009, 11:50 AM
Our shoddy defensive play as of late has nothing to do with Ben or the offense. We've played conservatively, and not brought the heat. When we finally unchained the dogs at the end of the game, we saw flashes of last year. We can still score 30 points a game and have great defense. I look for the D to step it up against the stains.

:Agree

The weaklink has been Woodley. He isn't getting it done this year. Not sure what his issue is but he is underperforming.

The inside blitz ability that Timmons provides is huge and it is not being utilized enough IMO.
I wouldn't put anything on under performance by any of the guys. One thing I am noticing is Harrison & Woodley are getting chipped alot more and/or have a RB waiting for them if the come clean. That takes a guy out of the pattern but it also gives the QB more time. Like I said before, the "more time" is attacking the middle of the field where we are really missing Troy in pass coverage. That TD Pepper threw doesn't happen with Troy in there...I am confident saying that. Troy would have been the deep safety on that side. Troy would have been playing the inside-out hash and giving up the corner of the endzone. The pass was completed yards away from where Troy would have been standing reading the QB. I don't think Pepper even throws that ball if Troy was there. The difference between Clark & Polamalu on that play if physical ability. Troy could play good technique which is hash out in that situation. The threat was the outside WR if he played the hash but a safety with Troy's physical skills knows he has the back of the endzone as his tool and he has the abilty to close to the corner of the endzone if he sits on the hash. Pepper goes to his next read and when that happens things start to break down. The link below has the highlights. Watch the TD play and you will see Clark splitting the hash to help Gay. Troy could sit on the hash and help both. Everything is inside/out when it comes to timing and you want to take away the quick read. Troy sitting on the hash makes Pepper go to another read. Even if it is Williams (I think) matched up on Gay...Troy breaks to the corner after Pepper moves his eyes or head to help Gay. Pepper can't just come back to Northcut because by that time Ratliff recovers. Game of inches & seconds. Also watch "Chalk Talk" to see DL finally dialing up the blitzes down the stretch. It is about time!

The highlight of the TD pass is in the "Radio Calls" clip.

http://www.steelers.com/multimedia/MediaCenter/

RuthlessBurgher
10-13-2009, 11:27 PM
Well...Seeing the final drive at Detroit and what DL did when they got in the redzone...Hopefully it will change their play calling. We have Big Ben. If we are within one score no matter what happens...Send the heat!!! It was like Tomlin called a TO and sent the first string defense from last season back on the field. No Troy...Who cares...Send the heat!!! Go get Culpepper...Cover behind. I think it ended up 4th & goal from the 30+ and a hail mary to end the game from 1st & goal within the 10. If you want to put it in the defense at the end of the game let the defense do what it does best. No Cover 2 - umbrella - prevent - $hit....Show blitz & Man...And go get the QB! If they score...So be it! More time on the clock and the ball in Ben's hands...9 times out of 10 Ben will bring it home!

:Agree

The last defensive stand should be your most aggressive, not your least aggressive. If you sit back in a soft zone and allow the other team to methodically drive on you, then the opposing team can score on your with little or no time left for you to answer (like Cutler's Bears and Palmer's Bengals). If you release the hounds, you will generate sacks, force turnovers, or (worse case scenario) allow the opposition to score quickly on a big play, which then gives Ben and his no-huddle offense and opportunity to respond (like in the Super Bowl, where Tomlin is saying after the long Fitz TD that if they were going to score, that is the best way for them to do it, leaving time on the clock for the Ben and Santonio show on that monumental final offensive drive.