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Shoe
10-08-2009, 05:54 PM
This new football league is debuting I guess tonight, and it got me thinking:

What sense does having a league like this (a competitor to NFL?) make? My opinion is that someone (and when I mean someone, I mean former NFL players) would have a much better chance creating a league to compete against college football... more specifically "NCAA" football.

This entity (the NCAA) is such a two-faced double-standard organization that it's ridiculous. It's main precept (of being amatuer, and thus holding players/coaches to ridiculous standards) is a sham in itself.

That coaches have to lie, pretend they don't do all kind of "shady" things to land recruits is a total facade, given that college football is a multi-billion dollar industry. This Dez Bryant thing, where he was banned for whatever he did, illustrates this point.

Dez Bryant (or any top prospect) is not an amatuer. The guy is a professional, in the same way we go out in our first jobs out of college, and you are learning how the world works. We don't really bring in money; we just get into the workforce, push some papers around, and eventually move along (& up).

Guys like Bryant, these guys are responsible for bringing in all kinds of revenue to the colleges. And what do they get? "A four-year education" from said college. Never mind that maybe they don't want an education. Or that they go to class. Yet they are required to ostensibly look the part of a "student-athlete". Ridiculous.

If they had a league, with prominent names behind it, as a direct competitor to the NCAA (i.e. getting kids right from high-school, and mixing with young & old NFL hopefuls) maybe it could create a better situation for these kids coming out of HS. Get paid what you are worth. At the very least, it would be a great step to telling the NCAA, take your BS charade and shove it.

What bothers me so much about the NCAA is the total lie that it bases itself on (amatuer status). It's a pro league--time to treat players accordingly.

Lonbull
10-08-2009, 08:56 PM
What bothers me so much about the NCAA is the total lie that it bases itself on (amatuer status). It's a pro league--time to treat players accordingly.

Shoe -

I have to disagree with you about a few things.

First - less than 1 % of the kids playing college ball are going to play in the NFL. So I completely disagree that NCAA Football is really a Pro Game hiding behind a Scholastic Shield.

For the rest of the 99% the game means something completely different. Many of the kids on the top schools are on scholarships so a free education certainly could be worth the blood sweat and tears they put into it.

I don't disagree with you however when it comes to the seeming need for a Minor League system of some sort. A hybrid between College and Pro Football.

Someplace where a number of these kids who run a 4.3 - 40, but can't read or write very well --- could pursue a career in football, but then receive a very basic education --- where learning on a curve is important, instead of being concerned with GPA.

I really don't understand why groups like the UFL or USFL - or the XFL try to compete on the NFL's level - it's just insanity. If I had the money I'd probably put together a small league and play the games in May and June ---- perhaps with the "Super Bowl" played on the 4th of July every year.

That way you could grab the kids who didn't get drafted in the NFL draft and offer them some money immediately following all of their training. Have them sign a year contact and if an NFL team wants them - they'd have to purchase the contract from your league -- and it would be a reasonable fee.

**However a number of these guys would be ready to still play in pre-season games.

L.B.

Shoe
10-09-2009, 12:47 AM
But, would you concede that (if we take your 1% stat as true), more than 1% really have no use or desire for a college degree? I'm talking practically--I know conventional wisdom will say "you need a college education" etc. but in reality, you have many many guys who are just not into that.

Yet at the same time, they make boatloads of money for the university they play... the equity is not there--between compensation and contribution (by the athlete). I hope we can agree on that. So by that token, a college can "pay" (i.e. college tuition) a relatively cheap salary for a tremendous profit. Is that not right?

And I would like to poin to this charade of amatuerism... where coaches, players, whoever else, are made out to be cheaters & quasi-criminals, when all they do is offer to pay a guy for his services? It's stupid, IMO. But I do appreciate where you are coming from.

Lonbull
10-09-2009, 02:59 AM
But, would you concede that (if we take your 1% stat as true), more than 1% really have no use or desire for a college degree? I'm talking practically--I know conventional wisdom will say "you need a college education" etc. but in reality, you have many many guys who are just not into that.

Shoe - Everybody playing on a Scholarship is playing for some "kind" of money. So I presume that all the students on scholarship would still play football if the NFL didn't exist. Because at least they're still playing football, and getting something for it - which is the general idea.

This idea is a little off topic, but I get where you're coming from.



Yet at the same time, they make boatloads of money for the university they play... the equity is not there--between compensation and contribution (by the athlete). I hope we can agree on that.

This is where the hypocrisy begins (Just to clarify the System's hypocrisy, not yours). If what I've read in the past is true - college football basically has to foot the tab for any number of other sports that Universities offer - Soccer, Water Sports, Track and Field, Baseball, Golf, Tennis, Womens Basketball...etc.

So the Universities aren't necessarily raking in the profits - without having to use the money to support a lot of other programs.

One arguement that you are making is that the Athlete is what is driving people to come and watch the sport. That may be true - however, in some cases, people support college football out of tradition or because they are alumni - so it's difficult to seperate why the income is being made.

For example I would be curious to know how much more money San Diego State made when Marshall Faulk was playing there. There's a college without much of a football tradition that had a major star for a brief time.

Without those numbers it's difficult to guage what drives people to watch college ball.

In general I think the "system" works for the best players in college football - because usually the best players in college ball get drafted and paid enormous amounts of money based on what they did in College (and in preparation towards the combine).

I don't necessarily agree with the system - or even think it makes the most sense (and this is where I think you an I are on the same page) however I do think for the most part it works out.



And I would like to poin to this charade of amatuerism... where coaches, players, whoever else, are made out to be cheaters & quasi-criminals, when all they do is offer to pay a guy for his services? It's stupid, IMO. But I do appreciate where you are coming from.

Again - we're on the same page here - the "cover-up"'s of money spent to get kids to play ball for Universities --- or the "cover-up"'s of how kids have a 3.00 GPA but can't read --- is just insulting.

We certainly agree that it would be great to have a minor league system (or some kind of system) that paid the kids until they were old enough (or physically mature enough) for the NFL. That way you could pay them a % of the income that the league made and it would be closer in payment to what their talents are worth.

And since these guys probably just want to play football, and live their life without the burdens of "faking" the student life - they'd probably be much happier people as well.

L.B.

stlrz d
10-09-2009, 07:27 AM
Don't dismiss the value of the doors that are opened in the post-college world for those who participate in D-1 sports. Especially Football and Basketball.

calmkiller
10-09-2009, 09:55 AM
A thread title UFL....about how bad NCAA is...Misleading a bit.