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stlrz d
10-07-2009, 10:44 PM
In his 12th season this is how Ward stacks up against his peers after 4 games:

Receptions - 3rd (26)
Yards - 6th (355)
Yards/Game - 6th (88.8 )
Avg per Reception (20+ catches) - 8th (13.7)

Not bad for an old man, eh? Yeah there's that matter of not having gotten into the EZ yet, but until the Chargers game we didn't exactly light up the scoreboard...plus we seem to have diversified a bit in that area.

snarky
10-08-2009, 12:46 AM
Minor milestone on the horizon for Ward. Five more TDs and he becomes the all time NFL TD leader for players born outside of the US.

JTP53609
10-08-2009, 10:53 AM
i still cant believe people think that he might not get into the hall of fame, he leads the steelers in every single category with 2 other steeler receivers in the HOF, he has to be a lock.....while on the topic i think these players will get in too
bettis (perhaps first ballot, 5th all time rusher)
big ben (6+ more season and he is in)
dawson (should be in by now)
polamalu (5+ more seasons and he is in)

maybe
cowher (if he would of won one more SB than he is a lock)
faneca ( had a great career, dominant at his position for 10+ yrs)

should of
andy russell ( playing with lambert and hamm takes away his outstanding accomplishments)
donnie shell ( holds the nfl record for interceptions by a SS, oh yea 4 SB's too)
L.C. Greenwood ( i dont get it, how he is not in is beyond me)

Shoe
10-08-2009, 01:29 PM
He is a Hall of Famer. FIRST BALLOT.
2) He has the accolades (SB MVP, multiple Pro Bowler, 1,000-yard seasons)
1) By all accounts and in any sense of the phrase, he is a football player.

How would he not be FIRST BALLOT?

(BTW, tied for my favorite all-time Steeler: can you guess the other one?)

BradshawsHairdresser
10-08-2009, 03:20 PM
He is a Hall of Famer. FIRST BALLOT.
2) He has the accolades (SB MVP, multiple Pro Bowler, 1,000-yard seasons)
1) By all accounts and in any sense of the phrase, he is a football player.

How would he not be FIRST BALLOT?

(BTW, tied for my favorite all-time Steeler: can you guess the other one?)

Jack Lambert?

frankthetank1
10-08-2009, 04:56 PM
i wouldnt see any reason why hines wouldnt get in the hall of fame and i cant see him waiting too long after he is eligible to get in as well. untill i see hines slow down and have his production decline i will think he can play maybe for another 3-4 seasons. for some reason i dont think the fact that stallworth and swan are in the hof will help hines that much. maybe it will who knows. hines is definetly my favorite steeler of all time. not only did he throw me a ball but he is the most physical wr to ever play the game. i think that will help him out a lot with getting in the hof

Shoe
10-08-2009, 05:37 PM
He is a Hall of Famer. FIRST BALLOT.
2) He has the accolades (SB MVP, multiple Pro Bowler, 1,000-yard seasons)
1) By all accounts and in any sense of the phrase, he is a football player.

How would he not be FIRST BALLOT?

(BTW, tied for my favorite all-time Steeler: can you guess the other one?)

Jack Lambert?

Close... unfortunate, I was a little boy when Lambert was playing.

Answer: The next era's Jack Lambert (actually, the next-next era's Jack Lambert) :wink:

AngryAsian
10-08-2009, 05:44 PM
He has redefined the position with regards to his physical play. He's the Ronnie Lott of WRs. No one even comes close when you have a discussion about great blockers in the wide out position. The numbers speak for themselves and if he continues down this current path this season, he'll take another trip to Hawaii at season's end.

RuthlessBurgher
10-08-2009, 07:01 PM
He has redefined the position with regards to his physical play. He's the Ronnie Lott of WRs. No one even comes close when you have a discussion about great blockers in the wide out position. The numbers speak for themselves and if he continues down this current path this season, he'll take another trip to Hawaii at season's end.

Nope. This year, the Pro Bowl is in Miami the week prior to the Super Bowl. Since Hines will be in Miami to play in the Super Bowl, he will be ineligible to participate in the Pro Bowl the previous week.

Jooser
10-08-2009, 08:09 PM
just as long as he goes in a Steeler.

NKySteeler
10-08-2009, 08:10 PM
As ASIAN said, he has redefined the position as far as responsibilities beyond just catching the ball... I'm sure he'll get in, but you never know how some of these things go... Personally, there is no one else I would rather have out on the field in a big game for a multitude of reasons.

... On a tangent from this.... Once he actually DOES hang-up the cleats, does anyone see him remaining with the Steelers in a coaching capacity?... I think he brings alot to the table when working with younger WRs, and could pass on his attitude in this manner.

stlrz d
10-08-2009, 08:22 PM
just as long as he goes in a Steeler.

:moon

As an aside, in the room at the HoF that contains the player's busts there are touch video screens where you can bring up a team and view a video bio for each player. I brought up the Steelers and looked at Rod's vid. All of the footage was him in a Steelers uni.

Just out of curiosity I pulled up the Ravens and of course Rod is the only player listed there. I took a look at his vid...and you guessed it...it's the same one! :lol:

fordfixer
10-08-2009, 10:25 PM
just as long as he goes in a Steeler.

:moon

As an aside, in the room at the HoF that contains the player's busts there are touch video screens where you can bring up a team and view a video bio for each player. I brought up the Steelers and looked at Rod's vid. All of the footage was him in a Steelers uni.

Just out of curiosity I pulled up the Ravens and of course Rod is the only player listed there. I took a look at his vid...and you guessed it...it's the same one! :lol:


So are you saying that Rod went in as a Steeler? :lol: :lol:

Captain Lemming
10-09-2009, 03:29 AM
Should Hines get in? Sure. Will he? I strongly doubt it.

Outside of Steeler fans, Hines is thought of as a "very good", not great receiver.

You cannot make a case for his numbers versus Swann and Stallworth. Heck if you go by Swanns "numbers" he would have never made it, and 40 guys in the league will wind up with better numbers.

Swann is in because he was considered the best receiver period, for a time. Later Stallwoth would hold the same position in the eyes of many.

Just because Hine has the record for "this team" means squat to voters.

Just because Eddie George has the Oiler/Titans franchise career rushing record does not put him same class as Earl Campbell.

To get into the Hall as a receiver you need to be perceived as "elite", considered dominant for a time among your peers (Swann Stallworth), or be so consitantly good that you totals numbers are near or surpass all time record totals (ex. Steve Largent, Art Monk). Hines is neither.

And the SB MVP? Come on, it was nothing special. He got it by default, nobody played great, including Hines who had the dropsies early in the game.

Stallworth NEVER won a SB MVP. Not only was Johnny better in TWO SBs, Stallwoth was better in ONE HALF versus the RAMS than Ward was in both his SBs combined.

This brings me to the bottom line.

Swann and Stallworth had all-time great, amazing performances while the world was watching.

I will say this, had Ward had the SB performance Santonio just had, HE WOULD BE A LOCK. That is exactly what he needed. But perhaps due to his nanging injury, it was not to be.

The strongest case for Ward is that he is the best blocking receiver in history, in combination with his career stats. Historically nobody has ever considered "blocking" on the part of a receiver for HOF criteria.

steelblood
10-09-2009, 09:31 AM
Strangely enough, I think Ward chances at the HOF hinge on his next 2-3 seasons and not on his career so far (which on puts him on the fence). If he can continue to put together 1000 yard seasons or win another SB, he likely will go. If he gets injured or his play tails off, he'll probably not make it.

Steelerphile
10-11-2009, 02:50 PM
Should Hines get in? Sure. Will he? I strongly doubt it.

Outside of Steeler fans, Hines is thought of as a "very good", not great receiver.

You cannot make a case for his numbers versus Swann and Stallworth. Heck if you go by Swanns "numbers" he would have never made it, and 40 guys in the league will wind up with better numbers.

Swann is in because he was considered the best receiver period, for a time. Later Stallwoth would hold the same position in the eyes of many.

Just because Hine has the record for "this team" means squat to voters.


To get into the Hall as a receiver you need to be perceived as "elite", considered dominant for a time among your peers (Swann Stallworth), or be so consitantly good that you totals numbers are near or surpass all time record totals (ex. Steve Largent, Art Monk). Hines is neither.

And the SB MVP? Come on, it was nothing special. He got it by default, nobody played great, including Hines who had the dropsies early in the game.

Stallworth NEVER won a SB MVP. Not only was Johnny better in TWO SBs, Stallwoth was better in ONE HALF versus the RAMS than Ward was in both his SBs combined.

This brings me to the bottom line.

Swann and Stallworth had all-time great, amazing performances while the world was watching.

I will say this, had Ward had the SB performance Santonio just had, HE WOULD BE A LOCK. That is exactly what he needed. But perhaps due to his nanging injury, it was not to be.

The strongest case for Ward is that he is the best blocking receiver in history, in combination with his career stats. Historically nobody has ever considered "blocking" on the part of a receiver for HOF criteria.

You make some good points but I want to disagree with some of this.

I think there is no unanimity of opinion about Hines outside of Pittsburgh. There are some who hate him because of his perceived "dirty" blocking and some who think of him of perhaps the best slot receiver of all-time.

When you say Hines is not consistently good enough to be in the category of receivers like Steve Largent and Art Monk, you are wrong. Hines in his 12th season has 10,135 receiving yards. Placing him 31 on the all-time list. Largent played 14 seasons and had 13,089 and Art Monk played 16 years and gained 12,785 yards. Hines is definitely on target to catch Monk and possibly Largent if he plays 3-4 more years. There are 7 active receivers ahead of him on the all-time list. Hines takes care of himself and is a passionate player, so he probably has some good years left. He has a good chance to move up on this list and still has the distinction of the toughest receiver of all-time.

When you say because he is the leading Steeler receiver, won't impress voters, but when they see Ward's numbers dwarf Swann's 5,462 career yards, that may make an impression.

Captain Lemming
10-11-2009, 10:59 PM
I think there is no unanimity of opinion about Hines outside of Pittsburgh. There are some who hate him because of his perceived "dirty" blocking and some who think of him of perhaps the best slot receiver of all-time.

If I recall correctly, untill rather recently, Hines did not play slot much. I recall several years ago Hines balking at having to practice at slot, when he did not play the position in games.
The best of all time?
Who exactly said that?


When you say Hines is not consistently good enough to be in the category of receivers like Steve Largent and Art Monk, you are wrong. Hines in his 12th season has 10,135 receiving yards. Placing him 31 on the all-time list. Largent played 14 seasons and had 13,089 and Art Monk played 16 years and gained 12,785 yards.

I am by no means saying that Ward is not as good. I would take Ward over those guys.

But I said "record". Where did those guys rank in total catches when they retired? That is why they got in. You are a "receiver" and own the all-time record for "receptions" when you retire. That is hard to ignore.

If they played today, and put up similar numbers, they dont sniff the HOF. Nevertheless, they put up career numbers beyond those of their peers. Even then Monk was no shoe in


When you say because he is the leading Steeler receiver, won't impress voters, but when they see Ward's numbers dwarf Swann's 5,462 career yards, that may make an impression.[/quote]

HOF voting is about the best of all time. Not comparing players on a team.

Any receiver in the NFL can make the "I got better numbers than Swann" argument, and be just as valid as a Steeler receiver making that case.

Swann did not get in based on his numbers. He got in because he was a SPECTACULAR clutch receiver, who was biggest when everybody was watching.

If Swann cant play in that first SB against Dallas when he got hurt in the playoffs, he would need a ticket to get in. That ONE GAME made him.

Steelerphile
10-12-2009, 04:56 AM
I have heard Hine's called the "best slot receiver of all time". I can't cite you chapter and verse who said it and where I heard it, but I have read that on other message boards and I believe I have heard it over the air.

I agree that Ward has not necessarily played slot receiver througout his career, but he is identified that way by some because most of his catches are in the middle of the field as opposed to being a downfield threat like a Randy Moss or Terrell Owens.

Overall I think the attitude that the general sports follower has about Ward cannot be accurately summed up by the statement that he is only viewed as a "very good" receiver by everyone outside of Pittsburgh.

Yes, Swann was a spectacular receiver in his day, but I think he got into the Hall based on style as opposed to great production. He had that unique acrobatic talent to leap and hang in the air and adjust to the ball.

So I think that what makes a Hall-of-Fame player is someone who is different, a trendsetter. When Largent and Monk retired, their numbers were high on the all-time list, so they got in for that reason. But if Ward can put up similar numbers and still maintain the distinction as the toughest, hardest hitting receiver who ever roamed the NFL playing fields, I believe that is what sets him apart. You seem to down-play the blocking, physical side of Ward. But I think that is what makes him different and I think probably does put him in he Hall of Fame.

RuthlessBurgher
10-12-2009, 05:08 PM
If I recall correctly, untill rather recently, Hines did not play slot much. I recall several years ago Hines balking at having to practice at slot, when he did not play the position in games.
The best of all time?
Who exactly said that?

Just yesterday, when he caught his first TD pass of the season against the Lions, Steelers play-by-play broadcaster Bill Hilgrove proclaimed him in the best slot receiver in his TD call on local Pittsburgh radio (that TD call was replayed on one of the Sirius NFL Radio wrap up shows last night).

flippy
10-12-2009, 05:32 PM
Hines Ward is a lock.

They had to change the rules for him.

He doesn't just block DBs, he takes it to guys in the jerseys that start in 9s.

He's crafty.

And he played most of his career with journeymen QBs in an offense that rarely passed the ball.

His numbers are spectacular given the circumstances.

He's gritty and runs like a beast after the catch.

He's the best at finding a soft spot against a zone.

He's got great hands.

And he's fearless.

He's got all the stats, probowls, superbowl mvpsto back it up.

But most importantly, he made a major impact on the game.

He changed the game for the better.

Hines Ward is the type of player the HOF was designed for.

RuthlessBurgher
10-12-2009, 09:19 PM
He's crafty.

[youtube:3flvy04c]<object width="560" height="340"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/4k9DE1zycg0&hl=en&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/4k9DE1zycg0&hl=en&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="560" height="340"></embed></object>[/youtube:3flvy04c]

Captain Lemming
10-13-2009, 12:35 AM
Hines is by far the best blocking receiver to have ever seen. You say that in four ways but it is one point.
This is the only area where he is without peer.

Very good hands, sure. Great hands-no
He does not have the best hands on his team, Miller does.

I truly understand what you are saying about his QBs. You are correct.
But it is the kind of argument that we as Steeler fans make to make a case for a favorite player.

"Gritty" "runs like a beast"? That is now you describe his YAC?
That too is "fanspeak". You could be describing Rocky Blier or Merril Hoge.
Translation- He get the max out of limited tools by running tough.
Bottom line, is he a "Great" YAC receiver? He has had moments, but he is not great in that regard.

Wayne Chrebet of the New York Jets was a truly "Great" slot receiver. Wes Welker, Brandon Stokley more recently. If you want to say Hines is the best of that lot, perhaps thats right. They are just as good at "finding a soft spot" as Ward.

Being the best at a role typically filled by a number three receiver wont get him in.

The key that gives Hines a remote chance is his blocking, the one aspect of his game that is truly without peer. Add to that, the fact that he is "excellent" (not nessesarily elite) as a pure receiver.

But considering that some of histories hardest defensive hitters (Tatum, Shell, Lloyd) at positions where hitting is a focal point, did not get in, and Hines is the biggest hitter a position where hitting is a afterthought, I doubt it.


Hines Ward is a lock.

They had to change the rules for him.

He doesn't just block DBs, he takes it to guys in the jerseys that start in 9s.

He's crafty.

And he played most of his career with journeymen QBs in an offense that rarely passed the ball.

His numbers are spectacular given the circumstances.

He's gritty and runs like a beast after the catch.

He's the best at finding a soft spot against a zone.

He's got great hands.

And he's fearless.

He's got all the stats, probowls, superbowl mvpsto back it up.

But most importantly, he made a major impact on the game.

He changed the game for the better.

Hines Ward is the type of player the HOF was designed for.

stlrz d
10-18-2009, 03:13 PM
Ward is tearin' 'em up!!!!!