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steelerkeylargo
10-01-2009, 07:30 PM
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Q&A: Bruce Arians


Bruce Arians By SteelCityInsider.com

Posted Oct 1, 2009


Steelers offensive coordinator Bruce Arians met with a small crowd of reporters after Thursday's practice. Here's the complete transcript.

Bruce Arians, offensive coordinator, Pittsburgh Steelers
Q: Let me ask you what I asked Ben. You guys play so much better offensively when you’re coming from behind. Can you apply the same principles when you’re holding a short lead?

A: Oh, yeah, sure. We kind of did that in Chicago. We kept going down the field, and I remember trying to get into a smash-mouth mode. I think that’s the best way we play. Each game brings a different set of circumstances. If you feel you can take the time off the clock, and make first downs, you can run the ball three, three, three, convert a third-down; if not, you’ve got to continue to throw it and mix it up and make first downs. The key thing is making first downs and gaining possession of the football.

Q: Is it formations? It seems when you go two tights and bring everyone into the middle of the field, it’s harder to run the ball, particularly when they know you want to run it.

A: Not necessarily. San Diego, we did it last year in the playoff game and were extremely successful. Each game’s a little different. We were successful on first down in Cincinnati and not as successful on seconds. It set up a couple third downs where we were outside of a makeable third down when they all-out blitzed and tackled the hot receiver. You’ve got to get in 3rd-and-5 or less for that situation to occur. We came up a little short on the one because of second-down failure.

Q: Are you at the point where you’re thinking of doing some different things in goal-to-go situations?

A: No. No. We were successful running the ball on the edges against Cincinnati the last couple of years. We walk in if we block it correctly on the first one. We just had a mistake, turned a guy free who shouldn’t have been free. It’s the same play we scored on two years ago, and last year. We just dressed it up with a different shift.

Q: Did you miss Carey Davis the last three weeks? Are you glad to have him back?

A: Yeah, as a person I love Carey Davis. I was glad that he was available with the situation that occurred with the two young guys. I hate that the two young guys are gone, but this is the NFL and there’s always someone capable of stepping up and playing. That was our motto last year and we did it extremely well. I would anticipate him to play well.

Q: Will Carey make an immediate impact?

A: Well, he’s going to play. I hope he makes an impact. He played well last year against these guys, and he’s a veteran. He knows what to expect.

Q: How far along is Mike Wallace in his development?

A: Getting better every week. That was a breakout game, but for him it’s kind of like Rashard (Mendenhall): What do you do with success? Can you maintain it? He’s had a good week of practice. I think his confidence level is up. He’ll start seeing a little different coverage. These guys are solid corners. They’re going to really, really test us.

Q: Last year in the playoffs you gashed San Diego running the ball. Willie Parker looked as healthy as he’s been in a while. He’s nicked again, so is it the same approach with a different back?

A: Well, without giving our game plan away, when we played San Diego early in the year we had a lot of success with the no-huddle. The second time around, it was a good mix. But when we got in our two-tight end/fullback mix, we made – Willie made – a lot of yards. We’ll see how he is. I feel very confident in Mewelde (Moore) and Rashard, so we’ll just see how it plays out.

Q: Is it still up in the air between Mewelde and Rashard, if Willie doesn’t play?

A: Yeah. We’ll make that – coach will make that decision as we go along.

Q: Has Rashard shown enough this week?

A: He’s had a great week of practice.

Q: Did you know, Bruce, going into the last game that you would not have Rashard?

A: Well, I knew we’d have him if we needed him. And in all honesty, when I saw Willie running the way he was, Rashard probably wasn’t going to play, because when I see Willie running like he was in Cincinnati, he ain’t coming out.

Q: As a coach, what bothered you most last week about his preparation?

A: Just his preparation. He didn’t handle success as well as I hoped he would.

Q: He’s very young. Does that have anything to do with it?

A: Sure it does. He hasn’t played a whole lot. When you have your first success, you have a natural tendency to relax a bit.

Q: How did you like the three-TE formation with Ramon Foster in the game?

A: (Laughs) Not as much as I did with (David) Johnson. It took a lot of the passing part out of it. No, Ramon stepped in there and did a pretty good job. Hats off to him for a rookie doing that. He prepared without getting any snaps. He just had to learn it on paper. But, yeah, you lose a lot when you lose the three-TE package because D.J. is such a versatile player. We had some passes that we liked to have been able to use that we couldn’t use, but we’ll go back to two tight ends and a fullback and use that package.

Q: Can’t you just throw one to Foster to show everybody?

A: (Laughs) No. Max (Starks) never got one. He ain’t getting one, either.

Q: The two pass interference penalties on Hines Ward, did you go back to the drawing board for the timing issues on those?

A: No. We’ll keep calling it, see what this crew’s going to call. You guys trying to get me fined?

Q: Wasn’t that one pass behind the line?

A: Oh, yeah.

Q: Doesn’t that matter?

A: No. It’s not like the college rule where you can block downfield when the ball’s thrown. You have to be within a yard. If you put out a hundred of those in the NFL, one’s been called. I don’t know about anybody else’s. But, it was illegal. We were downfield blocking when the ball was throw, so you can’t argue with the call.

Q: How important is a franchise quarterback?

A: If you don’t have one, you’re not going to win. There are some defenses that can carry you: Baltimore’s the one year. It was so dominant they didn’t have to score a touchdown for a month. That doesn’t happen too much anymore. The offenses are too good, and when you’re facing one and you don’t have one, it’s hard to score enough points.

Q: And when you have one?

A: It’s fun. It’s fun to get in that scoring battle. You know you always have a chance.

SteelCrazy
10-01-2009, 10:50 PM
The 1st answer made me quit reading....run run run...smash mouth football with the lead.

grotonsteel
10-01-2009, 11:49 PM
The 1st answer made me quit reading....run run run...smash mouth football with the lead.


Same here...


Steelers play well in smash mouth mode....WTF is he talking?? Is he aware that Steelers lost two games with that freaking Run-Run-Pass game??

Willie,Mendy and Moore are not bruiser type RB.

sd steel
10-01-2009, 11:54 PM
The 1st answer made me quit reading....run run run...smash mouth football with the lead.


You should have read the rest. Kind of insightful, but you know that none of these guys, players and head coaches included, ever tell the media what's really happening. I listened to a good interview with Trent Dilfer last week, and I hate Dilfer, but he told the radio guy here in San Diego, that all they do is lie and bs the media. he was taught to do it day one, and every player and coach is basically given a script of crap to appease the fan base and the reporters. I thought it was funny that he siad Ramon will never touch the ball, just like Max, so look for Ramon to catch a pass Sunday night. :shock:

Djfan
10-02-2009, 12:24 AM
He just doesn't impress. I really hope he's gone soon.

sd steel
10-02-2009, 12:38 AM
He just doesn't impress. I really hope he's gone soon.

Not to pick on you DJ, but why doesn't he impress? He coached for Cleveland? Georgia Tech? Would Gilbride or Chan or Sherman be better? Why is he such an easy target for everyone? He was a part of the 6th Super Bowl Victory. They have had alot of success and Ben like's him. I watch every game, and I still don't understand all of the hate.

frankthetank1
10-02-2009, 07:16 AM
He just doesn't impress. I really hope he's gone soon.

Not to pick on you DJ, but why doesn't he impress? He coached for Cleveland? Georgia Tech? Would Gilbride or Chan or Sherman be better? Why is he such an easy target for everyone? He was a part of the 6th Super Bowl Victory. They have had alot of success and Ben like's him. I watch every game, and I still don't understand all of the hate.

the play calling in the 2nd half of the bengals game was terrible. im no ba basher but im no ba fan either. this steeler team isnt built for run run pass with a lead. bettis isnt in the backfield and faneca is in ny. they cant play smash mouth turtle ball anymore. their best weapon is ben. last weeks game he pretty much took the ball out of ben's hands and it contributed to the loss. the bears game 3rd and 1 and they throw the ball in the endzone, that i love. go for the kill and stay aggresive thats what they should always do with a lead. they did it last year and it worked

JTP53609
10-02-2009, 07:37 AM
well he was kind of right about the chicago game, we were up 14-7 in the fourth qtr, and we had two drives where we were drove all the way inside the 20, i wish we could of scored a td each time but we attempted 2 field goals inside jeff reeds range and he missed them....

Oviedo
10-02-2009, 07:47 AM
He just doesn't impress. I really hope he's gone soon.

Not to pick on you DJ, but why doesn't he impress? He coached for Cleveland? Georgia Tech? Would Gilbride or Chan or Sherman be better? Why is he such an easy target for everyone? He was a part of the 6th Super Bowl Victory. They have had alot of success and Ben like's him. I watch every game, and I still don't understand all of the hate.

the play calling in the 2nd half of the bengals game was terrible. im no ba basher but im no ba fan either. this steeler team isnt built for run run pass with a lead. bettis isnt in the backfield and faneca is in ny. they cant play smash mouth turtle ball anymore. their best weapon is ben. last weeks game he pretty much took the ball out of ben's hands and it contributed to the loss. the bears game 3rd and 1 and they throw the ball in the endzone, that i love. go for the kill and stay aggresive thats what they should always do with a lead. they did it last year and it worked

Were the "perceived" bad play calls his or Ben's? Remember that Ben acknowledged that he calls 40% of the plays. Why do you assume the bad plays were the ones that Arians called?

I agree we have this assumption that one of these others OCs would be an improvement. Why would we be confident that would be the case. Heck Chan Gailey couldn't even keep a job in KC, yet there is an assumption that he is an offensive genius.

Mister Pittsburgh
10-02-2009, 08:13 AM
Arians is not a good offensive coordinator. I am not kidding when I say if you made me the OC instead of him we would score more points. I don't think he has any creativity at all. None. Zero.

And anyone who throws out that he helped us win the SB is crazy. We shouldn't have even made the playoffs with his pathetic offense. If it wasn't for our defense bailing our pathetic offense out time and time again last year we miss the playoffs by 2 or 3 games. Hell, his pathetic playcalling almost cost us the AFCCG against Baltimore because he couldn't put them away. After lighting up a depleted secondary the entire first half, where we should have had 2 more TD's throwing the ball in the first half, he comes out with the turtle offense and runs Parker right at one of the best front 7's in the game for a little over 1 yard per carry.

The Rats were within striking distance where one big play and they take the lead until Troy finally put them away with his interception return for a TD.

Arians is a blowhard with no clue what he is doing. He doesn't get the best out of the weapons he has available to him.

papillon
10-02-2009, 08:18 AM
I try not to get into playing the blame game about the offensive woes or the defensive break downs late in games so far this season. I have asked myself the following questions and have yet to be able to come up with an answer maybe you all can help.

Do you believe that the Steelers have a talented offense?

If you believe they do then...

Why are they incapable of scoring touchdowns?

The Steelers have a top 5 quarterback
The Steelers have a top 10 WR corps
The Steelers have a top 5 tight end
The offensive line is top 16 (middle of the pack and moving up)
The running backs currently are probably top 16 maybe a little less at this point

That seems good enough to me to be able to put points on the board. You aren't going to have top 5 across the board. This is my reasoning as to why Bruce Arians gets the criticism. He has the talent on offense and they aren't producing. Maybe, it's the players, but some of the struggles have to be related to the man that is leading them.

I can't reconcile the talent to the lack of scoring and that's why Bruce Arians has to shoulder some of the criticism. The talent is there, but, not putting points on the board.

Just my two cents

Pappy

JTP53609
10-02-2009, 08:29 AM
like i have said i dont think BA is the best OC in the world, but I honestly do not think he is as bad as we make him sound either.....the steelers drive the ball down the field alot, (we only punted 2 times last week), with the 3 drops by holmes in chicago and the sure td droped by sweed, we would have alot more points this year, not to mention 6 more points on the board from field goals too, he has not been that bad this year IMO, last year yea, he called some bad games and he called plays that exposed our weaknesses, but this yaer i really dont have much of a problem

RuthlessBurgher
10-02-2009, 08:48 AM
Arians is not a good offensive coordinator. I am not kidding when I say if you made me the OC instead of him we would score more points. I don't think he has any creativity at all. None. Zero.

And anyone who throws out that he helped us win the SB is crazy. We shouldn't have even made the playoffs with his pathetic offense. If it wasn't for our defense bailing our pathetic offense out time and time again last year we miss the playoffs by 2 or 3 games. Hell, his pathetic playcalling almost cost us the AFCCG against Baltimore because he couldn't put them away. After lighting up a depleted secondary the entire first half, where we should have had 2 more TD's throwing the ball in the first half, he comes out with the turtle offense and runs Parker right at one of the best front 7's in the game for a little over 1 yard per carry.

The Rats were within striking distance where one big play and they take the lead until Troy finally put them away with his interception return for a TD.

Arians is a blowhard with no clue what he is doing. He doesn't get the best out of the weapons he has available to him.

I'm not the biggest Arians supporter in the world, but I always find it amusing when average Joes on a message board really think that they could be a better offensive coordinator. You have absolutely no idea how complex an NFL playbook is and the amount of preparation that goes into preparing a weekly gameplan. It's a bit more than just picking a play to use from the choices offered to you in Madden '10. :lol:

Djfan
10-02-2009, 08:49 AM
He just doesn't impress. I really hope he's gone soon.

Not to pick on you DJ, but why doesn't he impress? He coached for Cleveland? Georgia Tech? Would Gilbride or Chan or Sherman be better? Why is he such an easy target for everyone? He was a part of the 6th Super Bowl Victory. They have had alot of success and Ben like's him. I watch every game, and I still don't understand all of the hate.


Pappy gave the best answer a few posts up.

As for me, I'm not shouting out for Chan G either. I just don't remember his track record that well actually.


One thing you have to admit is that the last few years this offense has not shown the consistant ability to carry the D when it is off. The D has shown the ability to carry the O, however.

I just think that with this talent pool we should be an offensive force at all times. It's just not there. It seems systemic to me and that means leadership.

steelerkeylargo
10-02-2009, 09:39 AM
I wouldn't go for Chan. But I sure would take Mike Mularkey again. Even Better Mark Whipple. Ben's old QB coach who is now the OC at Miami Hurricanes.

steeler_fan_in_t.o.
10-02-2009, 09:59 AM
Here is a question for those who are complaining about the turtle O in the fourth when we have the lead.

Who makes that decision? I would think that Tomlin tells Arians to become more conservative and Arians calls plays based on that.

Any thoughts?

frankthetank1
10-02-2009, 10:44 AM
He just doesn't impress. I really hope he's gone soon.

Not to pick on you DJ, but why doesn't he impress? He coached for Cleveland? Georgia Tech? Would Gilbride or Chan or Sherman be better? Why is he such an easy target for everyone? He was a part of the 6th Super Bowl Victory. They have had alot of success and Ben like's him. I watch every game, and I still don't understand all of the hate.

the play calling in the 2nd half of the bengals game was terrible. im no ba basher but im no ba fan either. this steeler team isnt built for run run pass with a lead. bettis isnt in the backfield and faneca is in ny. they cant play smash mouth turtle ball anymore. their best weapon is ben. last weeks game he pretty much took the ball out of ben's hands and it contributed to the loss. the bears game 3rd and 1 and they throw the ball in the endzone, that i love. go for the kill and stay aggresive thats what they should always do with a lead. they did it last year and it worked

Were the "perceived" bad play calls his or Ben's? Remember that Ben acknowledged that he calls 40% of the plays. Why do you assume the bad plays were the ones that Arians called?

I agree we have this assumption that one of these others OCs would be an improvement. Why would we be confident that would be the case. Heck Chan Gailey couldn't even keep a job in KC, yet there is an assumption that he is an offensive genius.

i would assume most of those plays where ba's or tomlin's call. ba is the oc, if he only calls 60% of the plays or less why even have an oc? i would assume most of the plays ben calls would be passes

RuthlessBurgher
10-02-2009, 11:11 AM
Here is a question for those who are complaining about the turtle O in the fourth when we have the lead.

Who makes that decision? I would think that Tomlin tells Arians to become more conservative and Arians calls plays based on that.

Any thoughts?

Response from LVG in 5...4...3...2...1...

Djfan
10-02-2009, 12:01 PM
Here is a question for those who are complaining about the turtle O in the fourth when we have the lead.

Who makes that decision? I would think that Tomlin tells Arians to become more conservative and Arians calls plays based on that.

Any thoughts?

Fair enough, but why do you think this? That is just too much of a jump for me to take at this point. Unless you have some insight to share.

Mister Pittsburgh
10-02-2009, 12:12 PM
Arians is not a good offensive coordinator. I am not kidding when I say if you made me the OC instead of him we would score more points. I don't think he has any creativity at all. None. Zero.

And anyone who throws out that he helped us win the SB is crazy. We shouldn't have even made the playoffs with his pathetic offense. If it wasn't for our defense bailing our pathetic offense out time and time again last year we miss the playoffs by 2 or 3 games. Hell, his pathetic playcalling almost cost us the AFCCG against Baltimore because he couldn't put them away. After lighting up a depleted secondary the entire first half, where we should have had 2 more TD's throwing the ball in the first half, he comes out with the turtle offense and runs Parker right at one of the best front 7's in the game for a little over 1 yard per carry.

The Rats were within striking distance where one big play and they take the lead until Troy finally put them away with his interception return for a TD.

Arians is a blowhard with no clue what he is doing. He doesn't get the best out of the weapons he has available to him.

I'm not the biggest Arians supporter in the world, but I always find it amusing when average Joes on a message board really think that they could be a better offensive coordinator. You have absolutely no idea how complex an NFL playbook is and the amount of preparation that goes into preparing a weekly gameplan. It's a bit more than just picking a play to use from the choices offered to you in Madden '10. :lol:

Yeah. I hear you. I wouldn't be able to sit there and rattle off the codes for formations, all that crap.....but I can tell you I would get more out of the players on the roster. Ben loves to throw while on the run and out of the pocket....we run no real designed bootlegs......Spaeth is 6'7" tall with good hands......we try no jump balls or fades to him in the red zone/ goal line.....Sweed is 6'4" tall.....we try no fades to him in the goal line/ red zone. There is just a lot I would change and do think that Arians doesn't get the job done.

NorthCoast
10-02-2009, 12:32 PM
He just doesn't impress. I really hope he's gone soon.

Not to pick on you DJ, but why doesn't he impress? He coached for Cleveland? Georgia Tech? Would Gilbride or Chan or Sherman be better? Why is he such an easy target for everyone? He was a part of the 6th Super Bowl Victory. They have had alot of success and Ben like's him. I watch every game, and I still don't understand all of the hate.

the play calling in the 2nd half of the bengals game was terrible. im no ba basher but im no ba fan either. this steeler team isnt built for run run pass with a lead. bettis isnt in the backfield and faneca is in ny. they cant play smash mouth turtle ball anymore. their best weapon is ben. last weeks game he pretty much took the ball out of ben's hands and it contributed to the loss. the bears game 3rd and 1 and they throw the ball in the endzone, that i love. go for the kill and stay aggresive thats what they should always do with a lead. they did it last year and it worked

Were the "perceived" bad play calls his or Ben's? Remember that Ben acknowledged that he calls 40% of the plays. Why do you assume the bad plays were the ones that Arians called?

I agree we have this assumption that one of these others OCs would be an improvement. Why would we be confident that would be the case. Heck Chan Gailey couldn't even keep a job in KC, yet there is an assumption that he is an offensive genius.

My take is a little different. If I was a QB that had a competent OC who had a knack for calling the right play at the right time I think I would trust him with ALL of the playcalling. The fact that Ben call's 40% of the plays means he probably thinks he has a better grasp than his OC.

feltdizz
10-02-2009, 06:15 PM
My take is a little different. If I was a QB that had a competent OC who had a knack for calling the right play at the right time I think I would trust him with ALL of the playcalling. The fact that Ben call's 40% of the plays means he probably thinks he has a better grasp than his OC.

If you are a franchise QB who has 19 come from behind wins and went 13-0 his first year you know damn well you trust no one but your arm.

You have to remember.. Ben plays sandlot 50% of the pass plays anyway.. always has. Ben didn't trust Whiz.. he didn't go through his progressions half the time.. he called the play and then dropped back and pumped and pointed long and made things happen.

It's also the reason we saw a few 3 INT games where Ben has looked like trash. Last year when we had a stretch when we couldn't score and Lefty came in and marched right down the field. I don't think any franchise QB trust the OC 100%.

Oviedo
10-02-2009, 06:27 PM
He just doesn't impress. I really hope he's gone soon.

Not to pick on you DJ, but why doesn't he impress? He coached for Cleveland? Georgia Tech? Would Gilbride or Chan or Sherman be better? Why is he such an easy target for everyone? He was a part of the 6th Super Bowl Victory. They have had alot of success and Ben like's him. I watch every game, and I still don't understand all of the hate.

the play calling in the 2nd half of the bengals game was terrible. im no ba basher but im no ba fan either. this steeler team isnt built for run run pass with a lead. bettis isnt in the backfield and faneca is in ny. they cant play smash mouth turtle ball anymore. their best weapon is ben. last weeks game he pretty much took the ball out of ben's hands and it contributed to the loss. the bears game 3rd and 1 and they throw the ball in the endzone, that i love. go for the kill and stay aggresive thats what they should always do with a lead. they did it last year and it worked

Were the "perceived" bad play calls his or Ben's? Remember that Ben acknowledged that he calls 40% of the plays. Why do you assume the bad plays were the ones that Arians called?

I agree we have this assumption that one of these others OCs would be an improvement. Why would we be confident that would be the case. Heck Chan Gailey couldn't even keep a job in KC, yet there is an assumption that he is an offensive genius.

i would assume most of those plays where ba's or tomlin's call. ba is the oc, if he only calls 60% of the plays or less why even have an oc? i would assume most of the plays ben calls would be passes

Why would you assume any of that?

pfelix73
10-02-2009, 07:39 PM
I'm not going to go into bashing BA again here on this thread, because to be honest, I'm tired of it. He sucked ever since high school and again, I still have no clue as to how he made it to the NFL level except for knowing someone. He pretty much ruined my buddy's career while at Temple.

I did notice one thing that kind of stood out in that interview. He said that last year they had great success against SD with the no huddle. Let's see IF they use it this sunday night. IF they don't and they LOSE like they did the past 2 weeks well... we'll all know just how much of an idiot the guy really is.

:tt1

jj28west
10-02-2009, 08:47 PM
OK,
Here is my 2˘

1) Predictability

Having watched every game last year I (I am a simple fan) was able to tell by formation and personnel what was coming. If you saw the Dallas game last year and the Colts you will notice the selling out by linebackers, etc in stopping the RB before he was even met at the line of scrimmage. I dont believe there was an audible but I am not there in the room when the game plan is being designed. Good scouting and film study by the opposition was obvious.

Maybe if BA had Max Starks elligible on some plays although I occasionally see that he has a rollout to Heath or Speath but I hardly see any fades, inside RB screens, etc.

2) Efficiency

Lets say your the GM and have full reign and control of who you want as an OC. You have a talented complementary wide receiver group that has the potential to surpass Mills, Hastings, Johnson, Thigpen in production. Your running backs that are not being used to their strengths minus Moore. Your Oline is average at best. Your starting TE is solid. The QB (the single most important position on offense) is of Pro Bowl caiber

What tangible statistics will you look at when shopping for an OC?

Yards per game? Could be misleading

Look deeper, Look at redzone, inside the 10, inside the 5 efficiency in touchdown vs field goal %. This is where the OC can earn his reputation in my opinion. This is where BA has not impressed me.


Ask yourself if the ball is inside the 10 yard line with 1 second on the clock, on how many plays do you think we score when compared to the Pats*, Colts, etc.

3) Execution

When was the last time you saw a succesful RB screen?
3rd and 1 or 4th and 1--> conversion %?

On the flipside I like that he is not so controlling where he has Ben's hands tied down and allows him to call the plays in situational downs like the draws to WP & Rashard in the Bears game of this year.

Funny I did not see many GM's asking permission from the Steelers to talk to BA during the playoffs.

BURGH86STEEL
10-02-2009, 09:41 PM
OK,
Here is my 2˘

1) Predictability

Having watched every game last year I (I am a simple fan) was able to tell by formation and personnel what was coming. If you saw the Dallas game last year and the Colts you will notice the selling out by linebackers, etc in stopping the RB before he was even met at the line of scrimmage. I dont believe there was an audible but I am not there in the room when the game plan is being designed. Good scouting and film study by the opposition was obvious.

Maybe if BA had Max Starks elligible on some plays although I occasionally see that he has a rollout to Heath or Speath but I hardly see any fades, inside RB screens, etc.

2) Efficiency

Lets say your the GM and have full reign and control of who you want as an OC. You have a talented complementary wide receiver group that has the potential to surpass Mills, Hastings, Johnson, Thigpen in production. Your running backs that are not being used to their strengths minus Moore. Your Oline is average at best. Your starting TE is solid. The QB (the single most important position on offense) is of Pro Bowl caiber

What tangible statistics will you look at when shopping for an OC?

Yards per game? Could be misleading

Look deeper, Look at redzone, inside the 10, inside the 5 efficiency in touchdown vs field goal %. This is where the OC can earn his reputation in my opinion. This is where BA has not impressed me.


Ask yourself if the ball is inside the 10 yard line with 1 second on the clock, on how many plays do you think we score when compared to the Pats*, Colts, etc.

3) Execution

When was the last time you saw a succesful RB screen?
3rd and 1 or 4th and 1--> conversion %?

On the flipside I like that he is not so controlling where he has Ben's hands tied down and allows him to call the plays in situational downs like the draws to WP & Rashard in the Bears game of this year.

Funny I did not see many GM's asking permission from the Steelers to talk to BA during the playoffs.


People said the offense was predictable under Cowher. Yet, they were still able to execute those predictable plays. Seems that people will always complain about predictability.

Do you think it is predictable that Adrian Peterson will get the football? Jerry Rice? Walter Payton? Emmit Smith? There is a long list of players of today and yesterday that teams knew would get the football. Lots of teams were unable to stop those players. Do you believe it was because the coaches called that many unpredictable plays? or do you believe it was superior execution? I believe in out executing the opponent.

It boils down to this, all teams pretty much know what the other teams will do. It is right there on film for coaches and players to study. Teams can only practice so many plays over the coarse of a season. They may throw in a few wrinkles here and there but to change everything teams like to do on a weekly basis is a difficult proposition. Players are not machines or video games. They can only practice so much. They get tired. This is where superior execution comes into play.

I don't think Ben is the best QB at throwing fade routes. Maybe that is why they don't run them much? Do they have a WR that can go up and get the football on fade routes? I've seen them run TE screens a few times this season with some success. Does it matter if it is the RB or the TE?

The offense moves the football. A lot of the efficiency issues in the red zone are on the players. They simply don't execute when they get down there. I've seen Ben not see open WR's and players miss blocks. Executing is what the players need to do better in those situations.

Because he was not interviewed to be a HC somewhere means he is not a good coach? Lebeau was not asked to be interviewed either. There are other good OC's and DC's that were not interviewed. Some guys are not meant to be HC's. The trend around the league seems to be going with younger HC's.

There are some good things that Arians has done with the offense since he has been here. People like to ignore those good things and over emphasize the bad.

pfelix73
10-02-2009, 10:07 PM
Not to be a #%&*, but what are they? The good things.....

Just wondering... :stirpot

sd steel
10-02-2009, 10:38 PM
OK,
Here is my 2˘

1) Predictability

Having watched every game last year I (I am a simple fan) was able to tell by formation and personnel what was coming. If you saw the Dallas game last year and the Colts you will notice the selling out by linebackers, etc in stopping the RB before he was even met at the line of scrimmage. I dont believe there was an audible but I am not there in the room when the game plan is being designed. Good scouting and film study by the opposition was obvious.

Maybe if BA had Max Starks elligible on some plays although I occasionally see that he has a rollout to Heath or Speath but I hardly see any fades, inside RB screens, etc.

2) Efficiency

Lets say your the GM and have full reign and control of who you want as an OC. You have a talented complementary wide receiver group that has the potential to surpass Mills, Hastings, Johnson, Thigpen in production. Your running backs that are not being used to their strengths minus Moore. Your Oline is average at best. Your starting TE is solid. The QB (the single most important position on offense) is of Pro Bowl caiber

What tangible statistics will you look at when shopping for an OC?

Yards per game? Could be misleading

Look deeper, Look at redzone, inside the 10, inside the 5 efficiency in touchdown vs field goal %. This is where the OC can earn his reputation in my opinion. This is where BA has not impressed me.


Ask yourself if the ball is inside the 10 yard line with 1 second on the clock, on how many plays do you think we score when compared to the Pats*, Colts, etc.

3) Execution

When was the last time you saw a succesful RB screen?
3rd and 1 or 4th and 1--> conversion %?

On the flipside I like that he is not so controlling where he has Ben's hands tied down and allows him to call the plays in situational downs like the draws to WP & Rashard in the Bears game of this year.

Funny I did not see many GM's asking permission from the Steelers to talk to BA during the playoffs.


People said the offense was predictable under Cowher. Yet, they were still able to execute those predictable plays. Seems that people will always complain about predictability.

Do you think it is predictable that Adrian Peterson will get the football? Jerry Rice? Walter Payton? Emmit Smith? There is a long list of players of today and yesterday that teams knew would get the football. Lots of teams were unable to stop those players. Do you believe it was because the coaches called that many unpredictable plays? or do you believe it was superior execution? I believe in out executing the opponent.

It boils down to this, all teams pretty much know what the other teams will do. It is right there on film for coaches and players to study. Teams can only practice so many plays over the coarse of a season. They may throw in a few wrinkles here and there but to change everything teams like to do on a weekly basis is a difficult proposition. Players are not machines or video games. They can only practice so much. They get tired. This is where superior execution comes into play.

I don't think Ben is the best QB at throwing fade routes. Maybe that is why they don't run them much? Do they have a WR that can go up and get the football on fade routes? I've seen them run TE screens a few times this season with some success. Does it matter if it is the RB or the TE?

The offense moves the football. A lot of the efficiency issues in the red zone are on the players. They simply don't execute when they get down there. I've seen Ben not see open WR's and players miss blocks. Executing is what the players need to do better in those situations.

Because he was not interviewed to be a HC somewhere means he is not a good coach? Lebeau was not asked to be interviewed either. There are other good OC's and DC's that were not interviewed. Some guys are not meant to be HC's. The trend around the league seems to be going with younger HC's.

There are some good things that Arians has done with the offense since he has been here. People like to ignore those good things and over emphasize the bad.

Great post! It's about execution.

stlrz d
10-02-2009, 10:56 PM
If the other team knows what you're going to do it's much easier for them to EXECUTE than it is for you to EXECUTE.

Execute, shmexicute...Arians blows chunks as an OC...you guys can cool it with the "execute" circle jerk any time now.

Djfan
10-02-2009, 11:59 PM
If I can try to give the interpretation of D's post:

It's easy to say that execution is the answer when we are talking Dorset. In addition to his skills, he had a great line. We have either Dorset nor a great line. So, like so many other successful teams in the past did, we need to adjust to our strength. Instead, BA calls a game that is based on having Dorset and a great line. It doesn't work.

How about calling a game that plays to the strengths of Ben and the no-huddle, Miller and his money hands, FWP or whomever with a FULL BACK, and learn how to have a successful screen every once in a while.

Just a thought.

feltdizz
10-03-2009, 12:27 AM
I'm tired of this bull#### you fughing candy azzz babies :Binky :Binky :Binky :wink:

besides the GL plays what do you guys want? Smashmouth? No huddle all game? You guys are never happy. It's whine whine wine... we won a SB last year.

2 missed FG's and a dropped TD pass and 4 more drops by Holmes lost the Chicago game, oh and the D blew it.

A dropped TD pass by Sweeeeeeed and a hot read mix up by Holmes for a pick 6, oh and the D gave up a fake punt and a TD and failed to stop the Bungles..

yet BA is to blame for all our woes.. why don't you blame the players for their fault in all of this..

and the "why doesn't any other GM want BA?" is lame.... look around the league..
what OC is so damn hot right now? Most of you guru's on here couldn't call the cops if you were spotted the 9 and the 1.. let alone a game as an OC.

you guys are like the kids in high school who rag on the nerd to try to sound cool with the in crowd. Grow up and place the blame where it needs to go.

If any of you had any balls you would be screaming for Leabeau's head instead of BA's.
We aren't losing games because of our offense.

BURGH86STEEL
10-03-2009, 05:33 AM
If the other team knows what you're going to do it's much easier for them to EXECUTE than it is for you to EXECUTE.

Execute, shmexicute...Arians blows chunks as an OC...you guys can cool it with the "execute" circle jerk any time now.

How do you explain the yardage gained by A. Peterson, Chris Johnson, and other RB's around the league? How did Emmit Smith become the leading rusher in league history? How do Peyton Manning and Drew Brees have so much success? How does Ben continually make plays when teams know he is tough to bring down? Surely teams know those players were going to get the ball? Teams know those players are going to "do their things." How do you explain the success of those players?

Steeler's fans thought of Kevin Gilbride as a goat. He seems to be having success with a better QB with the NYG. There are some other coordinators that don't have success with one team but have success with other teams. Do you think that is with new players or the coordinators had complete transformations? Did you notice that Tom Brady is not "Tom Brady" up to this point? The trend seems to be leaning towards how the players perform/execute. Coaches are only as good as the players perform. Some coaches can get a little more out of players. Those same coaches can't control if there are missed blocks, bad throws, dropped passes, and other execution mistakes the players make.

It's simple, our offense made a lot of execution mistakes on the field in the first 3 games. The players left a lot of points on the field in the first 3 games.

BURGH86STEEL
10-03-2009, 06:03 AM
If I can try to give the interpretation of D's post:

It's easy to say that execution is the answer when we are talking Dorset. In addition to his skills, he had a great line. We have either Dorset nor a great line. So, like so many other successful teams in the past did, we need to adjust to our strength. Instead, BA calls a game that is based on having Dorset and a great line. It doesn't work.

How about calling a game that plays to the strengths of Ben and the no-huddle, Miller and his money hands, FWP or whomever with a FULL BACK, and learn how to have a successful screen every once in a while.

Just a thought.

I totally understand that interpretation. The problem that we have is that no fan knows what plays were called or what plays were changed. How do you know plays were not designed for Miller or any other players? Do you and D get to watch game film? Do you know the Steelers play book?

They can't run the no huddle all game. They pull it out when the need it. The NFL is not Madden 2010. Players get fatigued.

Why are so people so fixated on this idea of having a FB? The offense has moved away from a FB based offense for more passing options.

We don't get to see game film to evaluate the plays that were called. What we can evaluate is the execution by the players. This is the same logic when fans scream Lebeau went to a soft defense. No one can say the defenses they played late in games were any different then the defenses they played earlier in games. What we do know is the Bengals out executed our defensive players.

Personally, I think the offense is heading in the right direction. They showed improvement every week. Now if the players can do a better job limiting mistakes, they will be fine.

jj28west
10-03-2009, 07:51 AM
I'm tired of this bull#### you fughing candy azzz babies

Uhmm..you can always turn the channel, station, or in this case move to the next thread if this post is making you tired. No?
besides the GL plays what do you guys want? Smashmouth? No huddle all game? You guys are never happy. It's whine whine wine... we won a SB last year.

I respectfully disagree. I have always stated how satisfying it is to be a fan of one of the best winning %'s in modern professional sports. Having said this it because of my competitve nature that as long as there is a Dallas Cowboy, Oakland Raider, Patriot, etc NFL team I would want to remain ahead of them in every way (ie Super Bowl Titles, etc). I apologize but it feels good to be king of the hill and I can not be content with the fact the "we made it so who cares if every team brings their A game every week. I want to still celebrate" mentality.

2 missed FG's and a dropped TD pass and 4 more drops by Holmes lost the Chicago game, oh and the D blew it.

A dropped TD pass by Sweeeeeeed and a hot read mix up by Holmes for a pick 6, oh and the D gave up a fake punt and a TD and failed to stop the Bungles..

yet BA is to blame for all our woes.. why don't you blame the players for their fault in all of this..

Look it....of course the players play and the coaches coach and do not make the catches or drops, etc. Tomlin is the 1st one to point out that a lot of this is still the head coach and the OC's responsibility. So we as the fan see the mental lapses, communication breakdowns and say "damm so & so". Could it be at all possible that the practices were not crisp and that the players were not adequately prepared. As I have said a lot of this falls on the player but part of a OC's responsibility is game preparation.

and the "why doesn't any other GM want BA?" is lame.... look around the league..
what OC is so damn hot right now? Most of you guru's on here couldn't call the cops if you were spotted the 9 and the 1.. let alone a game as an OC.

OK Mr Feltdizz,
Keeping emotions aside...educate me why this arguement is lame. Take away Jim Zorn and a couple others and I would strongly believe that the OC that is in demand and gets hired as a head coach in the following year was effective in some capacity in that position. Please state to me with facts why my arguement is weak and I may see your perspective.

you guys are like the kids in high school who rag on the nerd to try to sound cool with the in crowd. Grow up and place the blame where it needs to go.

If any of you had any balls you would be screaming for Leabeau's head instead of BA's.
We aren't losing games because of our offense.


And you say I am the only one that is a spoiled baby? Do you realize last year you saw one of the best defenses in the past 30 years along with the '85 Bears and Ravens during their super bowl run?

If someone was to tell me that the Defense would give up on average 17 or less points a game (with the modern rules implemented to encourage scoring) I would be very satisfied.

Did the Steelers D bring their "A" game? No. We are so spoiled in seeing the D make a stop, make an interception that we almost expect them to automatically save us each time we are in this situation.

I constantly hear how the D sucked the last quarter of the Super Bowl...forget the All world performances by Warner and Fitz during their playoff run. This is where we can act a little spoiled.

stlrz d
10-03-2009, 08:25 AM
OMFG, why is it so hard for some of you to understand things that are so simple to understand?

This issue with BA and even DL is one of SITUATIONAL play calling. That means calling what is appropriate for the current situation. So missed FGs, dropped TD passes, etc no longer factor into the equation. Those things are in the past...they happened and the game moves on. Get it? No one can go back and change those things once they've happened...all they can deal with is what's in front of them. Not to mention getting an earlier lead (FGs made, TDs caught) only means we go turtle SOONER in the game anyway.

The Steelers no longer have a smash mouth, impose their will on any team type running game. That's a thing of the past. Sorry if some of you are just waking up to that, but that's the way it is. We can't do that anymore. The team is not built for it personnel wise or scheme wise (including the ZBS scheme the line runs).

So when I talk about situational play calling I am talking about what is taking place in the NOW. Like when you are up, oh...let's say by 5 points with over 8 minutes left in the game...hypothetically speaking of course. :roll: Now you know you don't have a smash mouth run game...and the defense is stacked at the LOS to stop the run because they KNOW that's what you are going to try and do. So do you stubbornly attempt to run the ball into a defense playing specifically to stop it or do you take what the defense is giving you and instead go to a short passing game to get yardage and move the chains, thereby reducing the number of opportunities your opponent will have to close that slim 5 point margin?

Smart teams take what the defense is giving them. Teams that CAN impose their will on the ground will do so. Unfortunately, the Steelers are not one of those teams that can impose their will on the opponent in a smash mouth fashion anymore so it is time for them to be a SMART team and take advantage of what it given to them by the defense.

Teams are taking advantage of us by doing just that...LeBeau is playing a VERY soft zone late in games and teams are making us pay. We can do the same thing to those teams when they stack the LOS to stop the run...we do it early in the game but late in the game Arians' sphincter puckers up tighter than a Buddy Rich drum roll and he TAKES THE BALL OUT OF HIS FRANCHISE QB's HANDS.

Bruce...dance with the girl that brought you. Ben marches us down the field early in games, chewing up clock and getting yardage by chunks. He should be allowed to do that late in games as well. He did it last season when we were playing from behind...but now when we play with a lead BA simply takes the ball out of his hands. BA should change his initials to DA.

Yes players have to execute, but coaches have to also be able to look at the game situation as it exists in that moment, as well as forecast where they want to go in what remains to be seen, and call the plays (offensively and defensively) accordingly.

frankthetank1
10-03-2009, 08:26 AM
i heard an interesting stat yesterday. the steelers have been outscored 24-0 in the 4th qtr. its not all on the offense

stlrz d
10-03-2009, 08:29 AM
i heard an interesting stat yesterday. the steelers have been outscored 24-0 in the 4th qtr. its not all on the offense

Nobody's saying it's all on the offense.

But this is a prime example of stats not telling the whole story.

What is the Steelers TOP in those 4th quarters? If the offense can't hold the ball because they insist on run, run, pass, punt that puts ALL the pressure squarely on the defense.

frankthetank1
10-03-2009, 08:34 AM
i heard an interesting stat yesterday. the steelers have been outscored 24-0 in the 4th qtr. its not all on the offense

Nobody's saying it's all on the offense.

But this is a prime example of stats not telling the whole story.

What is the Steelers TOP in those 4th quarters? If the offense can't hold the ball because they insist on run, run, pass, punt that puts ALL the pressure squarely on the defense.

oh i know i just threw that out there because its a night and day change with this team. last season they were lights out in the 4th qtr and the offense would finally wake up in the 4th but that hasnt happened this season. i agree the offense should stay more aggressive in the second half.

Djfan
10-03-2009, 09:56 AM
This issue with BA and even DL is one of SITUATIONAL play calling. That means calling what is appropriate for the current situation. So missed FGs, dropped TD passes, etc no longer factor into the equation. Those things are in the past...they happened and the game moves on. Get it? No one can go back and change those things once they've happened...all they can deal with is what's in front of them. Not to mention getting an earlier lead (FGs made, TDs caught) only means we go turtle SOONER in the game anyway.

So when I talk about situational play calling I am talking about what is taking place in the NOW. Like when you are up, oh...let's say by 5 points with over 8 minutes left in the game...hypothetically speaking of course. :roll: Now you know you don't have a smash mouth run game...and the defense is stacked at the LOS to stop the run because they KNOW that's what you are going to try and do. So do you stubbornly attempt to run the ball into a defense playing specifically to stop it or do you take what the defense is giving you and instead go to a short passing game to get yardage and move the chains, thereby reducing the number of opportunities your opponent will have to close that slim 5 point margin?

Smart teams take what the defense is giving them. Teams that CAN impose their will on the ground will do so. Unfortunately, the Steelers are not one of those teams that can impose their will on the opponent in a smash mouth fashion anymore so it is time for them to be a SMART team and take advantage of what it given to them by the defense.

Teams are taking advantage of us by doing just that...LeBeau is playing a VERY soft zone late in games and teams are making us pay. We can do the same thing to those teams when they stack the LOS to stop the run...we do it early in the game but late in the game Arians' sphincter puckers up tighter than a Buddy Rich drum roll and he TAKES THE BALL OUT OF HIS FRANCHISE QB's HANDS.

Bruce...dance with the girl that brought you. Ben marches us down the field early in games, chewing up clock and getting yardage by chunks. He should be allowed to do that late in games as well. He did it last season when we were playing from behind...but now when we play with a lead BA simply takes the ball out of his hands. BA should change his initials to DA.

Yes players have to execute, but coaches have to also be able to look at the game situation as it exists in that moment, as well as forecast where they want to go in what remains to be seen, and call the plays (offensively and defensively) accordingly.

Bingooooooo!

Mister Pittsburgh
10-03-2009, 10:13 AM
OMFG, why is it so hard for some of you to understand things that are so simple to understand?

This issue with BA and even DL is one of SITUATIONAL play calling. That means calling what is appropriate for the current situation. So missed FGs, dropped TD passes, etc no longer factor into the equation. Those things are in the past...they happened and the game moves on. Get it? No one can go back and change those things once they've happened...all they can deal with is what's in front of them. Not to mention getting an earlier lead (FGs made, TDs caught) only means we go turtle SOONER in the game anyway.

The Steelers no longer have a smash mouth, impose their will on any team type running game. That's a thing of the past. Sorry if some of you are just waking up to that, but that's the way it is. We can't do that anymore. The team is not built for it personnel wise or scheme wise (including the ZBS scheme the line runs).

So when I talk about situational play calling I am talking about what is taking place in the NOW. Like when you are up, oh...let's say by 5 points with over 8 minutes left in the game...hypothetically speaking of course. :roll: Now you know you don't have a smash mouth run game...and the defense is stacked at the LOS to stop the run because they KNOW that's what you are going to try and do. So do you stubbornly attempt to run the ball into a defense playing specifically to stop it or do you take what the defense is giving you and instead go to a short passing game to get yardage and move the chains, thereby reducing the number of opportunities your opponent will have to close that slim 5 point margin?

Smart teams take what the defense is giving them. Teams that CAN impose their will on the ground will do so. Unfortunately, the Steelers are not one of those teams that can impose their will on the opponent in a smash mouth fashion anymore so it is time for them to be a SMART team and take advantage of what it given to them by the defense.

Teams are taking advantage of us by doing just that...LeBeau is playing a VERY soft zone late in games and teams are making us pay. We can do the same thing to those teams when they stack the LOS to stop the run...we do it early in the game but late in the game Arians' sphincter puckers up tighter than a Buddy Rich drum roll and he TAKES THE BALL OUT OF HIS FRANCHISE QB's HANDS.

Bruce...dance with the girl that brought you. Ben marches us down the field early in games, chewing up clock and getting yardage by chunks. He should be allowed to do that late in games as well. He did it last season when we were playing from behind...but now when we play with a lead BA simply takes the ball out of his hands. BA should change his initials to DA.

Yes players have to execute, but coaches have to also be able to look at the game situation as it exists in that moment, as well as forecast where they want to go in what remains to be seen, and call the plays (offensively and defensively) accordingly.

Great post man. Even though you spell out clear as day what we have been saying 10 different ways throughout this thread, people still won't get it. My main issue with Arians isn't even what goes on in between the 20's. It is that the moron learned nothing from our totally inadequate offense in the redzone from last year. He thinks things magically changed from last year to this year even though his uncreative ass is calling the same crap and guess what, it still doesn't work.

If anyone wants another example of situational football, look no further than last years AFCCG. First half we are dominating them, eating up the clock, controling the football by throwing it all over Baltimores depleted secondary. We missed a catch by Sweed for a TD and a catch by Parker for a TD. Yeah, the players screwed the pooch on those. But instead of coming out in the second half and continuing to attack their MAJOR weakness, we run Willie Parker right at Ray Lewis and the rest of their front 7. What did that get us? That let Baltimore hang right with us till the end when finally our defense bailed us out again and Troy took that INT to the house to seal the game. Game could have been sealed in the 3rd qtr.

Arians needs to learn it is OK to continue to do what you do best and put teams away so they don't hang around and bite you in the ass like Chicago and Cincy did. We haven't seen much of the no huddle at all in those 2 games even though that is pretty much the only way we move the ball consistantly.

Mister Pittsburgh
10-03-2009, 10:23 AM
Jesus, here is the perfect article to explain to the Arians apologists about how lame our thought process is......

Jim Wexell | Steelers’ offense is failing to put teams away
By JIM WEXELL
FOR?THE?TRIBUNE-DEMOCRAT
http://www.tribune-democrat.com/prospor ... 04234.html

PITTSBURGH — Ben Roethlisberger might be the king of the comeback – as he repeatedly shows against some of the toughest defenses in the league.

But, with a lead, Roethlisberger’s just another robot taking orders from a coach who wants to kill the clock with the running game.

In the past two games, the Steelers have not killed the clock, and they’ve squandered leads and lost both games.

So, why can’t the Steelers attack with Roethlisberger as if he’s trying to come from behind?

“I guess you could,” Roethlisberger said. “When we’re behind we’re pressing the issue, we’re passing, we’re really hurrying things up, and when you get the lead you tend to slow things down and run the ball and try to use up as much clock as you can. So, I guess you could, but the smart play is to use the clock and count on your defense.”

But, it hasn’t been so smart lately, has it?

“Two games,” Roethlisberger said, emphasizing the shallow pool of statistical evidence.

Problem is, it hasn’t only been two games for the Steelers. Before letting fourth-quarter leads slip in Chicago and Cincinnati, the Steelers lost a fourth-quarter lead in the Super Bowl. In fact, the past six times the Steelers have sent out their offense for a series (that didn’t include a kneeldown) with a lead of eight points or fewer, they’ve lost that short lead five times.

The Steelers lost late leads, and games, to the Bears, Bengals, Colts and Giants. Fortunately, they had enough time to rally for wins after blowing late leads against the Cardinals in the Super Bowl and the Ravens in the first meeting last season.

The only short fourth-quarter lead they haven’t squandered since hosting the Ravens early last season was the AFC championship game, in which the Steelers went three-and-out with a two-point fourth-quarter lead. Troy Polamalu’s interception return for a touchdown ended Baltimore’s chance to rally in that game.
Want to blame the defense for the recent problems? Fine.

But, the offense isn’t helping.

While playing with short fourth-quarter leads since the start of the 2008 season, the Steelers have run 15 first-down plays. Eleven of those have been running plays for 23 yards, with four passes (two completions) for a total of 0 yards. Inevitably, the Steelers stall, punt and blow the lead.

Can’t the Steelers keep their foot on the accelerator with a lead?
“Oh, yeah, sure,” said offensive coordinator Bruce Arians.

“We kind of did that in Chicago.”

Only, they didn’t. In Chicago, with a 14-7 fourth-quarter lead, the Steelers handed off to Parker on one first down and threw Parker a 3-yard pass on the other. The drive stalled, Jeff Reed missed a kick, the Bears tied the game, and later won it.
“We were successful on first down in Cincinnati and not as successful on seconds,” Arians continued. “It set up a couple third downs where we were outside of a makeable third down when they all-out blitzed and tackled the hot receiver.”

With a five-point fourth-quarter lead in Cincinnati, Parker ran for no gain on one first down and for 3 yards on the other. The Steelers punted and the Bengals drove for the winning touchdown.

“If you feel you can take the time off the clock, and make first downs, you can run the ball,” Arians said. “If not, you’ve got to continue to throw it and mix it up and make first downs. The key thing is making first downs and gaining possession of the football.”

Maybe that’s the problem.

Maybe the key is not “making first downs,” but instead scoring, adding to the lead, and driving a spike into the heart of the opponent. The Steelers have the quarterback and the receivers to do it. Maybe they just need to change the way they look at it.

And why not? It couldn’t be worse than the current course of action.



Jim Wexell covers the Pittsburgh Steelers for The?Tribune-Democrat.

Djfan
10-03-2009, 10:45 AM
Wexell nailed it. BA looks foolish in this article, and Ben didn't sound like he thought any different. I hope it is different soon. There is way too much talent on this team to play like this.

Mister Pittsburgh
10-03-2009, 12:30 PM
thats what drives me crazy DJFAN. You look at our QB-WR-TE and we match up with any team in the league. We have to be one of the lowest scoring teams in the league!

We put 13 points up against the Titans
Houston puts up 34 points on the Titans
Jets with a rookie QB put up 24 on the Titans

We put up 14 on the Bears
Green Bay put up 21 on the Bears (and they were healthy on D)
Seattle put up 19 on the Bears

We put up 20 on the Bungles
The Donkey only put up 7 on the Bungles
Green Bay put up 24 on the Bungles

Oakland put up 20 on the Chargers
Baltimore put up 31 on the Chargers
Miami put up 13 on the Chargers

Lets see what we put up.

BURGH86STEEL
10-03-2009, 12:57 PM
thats what drives me crazy DJFAN. You look at our QB-WR-TE and we match up with any team in the league. We have to be one of the lowest scoring teams in the league!

We put 13 points up against the Titans
Houston puts up 34 points on the Titans
Jets with a rookie QB put up 24 on the Titans

We put up 14 on the Bears
Green Bay put up 21 on the Bears (and they were healthy on D)
Seattle put up 19 on the Bears

We put up 20 on the Bungles
The Donkey only put up 7 on the Bungles
Green Bay put up 24 on the Bungles

Oakland put up 20 on the Chargers
Baltimore put up 31 on the Chargers
Miami put up 13 on the Chargers

Lets see what we put up.

In each of the 3 games, they had opportunities to put more points up on the board. The player's mistakes kept those points off the board.

Each game brings different players, challenges, and match ups. It is very difficult to make comparisons between teams and the outcome of games. There are lots of factors to consider. Games are not won on paper. It is why they play the games.

I've learned over the years of watching to never get caught up into how badly one team defeats the other team or any comparisons of that nature. All teams in the league have the talent to win. Again, there are so many factors that go into how games play out.

Mister Pittsburgh
10-03-2009, 06:16 PM
thats what drives me crazy DJFAN. You look at our QB-WR-TE and we match up with any team in the league. We have to be one of the lowest scoring teams in the league!

We put 13 points up against the Titans
Houston puts up 34 points on the Titans
Jets with a rookie QB put up 24 on the Titans

We put up 14 on the Bears
Green Bay put up 21 on the Bears (and they were healthy on D)
Seattle put up 19 on the Bears

We put up 20 on the Bungles
The Donkey only put up 7 on the Bungles
Green Bay put up 24 on the Bungles

Oakland put up 20 on the Chargers
Baltimore put up 31 on the Chargers
Miami put up 13 on the Chargers

Lets see what we put up.

In each of the 3 games, they had opportunities to put more points up on the board. The player's mistakes kept those points off the board.

Because the players screwed up on several occasions during the game in big ways to prevent points being put up on the board, does that mean they should stop attacking at their full capabilities?

Djfan
10-03-2009, 06:41 PM
Because the players screwed up on several occasions during the game in big ways to prevent points being put up on the board, does that mean they should stop attacking at their full capabilities?

You let me know when they start doing that and I'll answer your question.

BURGH86STEEL
10-03-2009, 08:14 PM
[quote="Mister Pittsburgh":27hb0ziz]thats what drives me crazy DJFAN. You look at our QB-WR-TE and we match up with any team in the league. We have to be one of the lowest scoring teams in the league!

We put 13 points up against the Titans
Houston puts up 34 points on the Titans
Jets with a rookie QB put up 24 on the Titans

We put up 14 on the Bears
Green Bay put up 21 on the Bears (and they were healthy on D)
Seattle put up 19 on the Bears

We put up 20 on the Bungles
The Donkey only put up 7 on the Bungles
Green Bay put up 24 on the Bungles

Oakland put up 20 on the Chargers
Baltimore put up 31 on the Chargers
Miami put up 13 on the Chargers

Lets see what we put up.

In each of the 3 games, they had opportunities to put more points up on the board. The player's mistakes kept those points off the board.

Because the players screwed up on several occasions during the game in big ways to prevent points being put up on the board, does that mean they should stop attacking at their full capabilities?[/quote:27hb0ziz]

It all depends how one defines attacking. I am not so sure that they stopped attacking. Sometimes, it boils down to what fans remember as opposed to what actually happened.

When things don't go as planned with plays that were called, fans always scream the coaches should had done something different. This is the history of arm chair QB's, DC's, HC's, and OC's.

Acknowledge it or not, there were improvements in the offense from week 1 to week 3.
I am one to hope that they can build on those positives whereas many call for the OC to be fired.

The bottom line is this, no matter where anyone wants to point the blame, they loss the last two games as a team.

Mister Pittsburgh
10-03-2009, 11:05 PM
I am just going to put it real simple and the way I see it....

The Best thing the Steelers do on offense with the personel that they have is to go no huddle.

They are good at this because this is the type of offense Ben ran all through college. They invested 100 million on a playmaking QB.

They have a pro bowl WR in Ward who is as sure handed as they get in traffic and blocks like a bat out of hell.

They have Santonio who is showing flashes of being a top level WR. He has shown rust and has dropped quite a few, but if he can start to play near the level he did late last season he is a top WR. Someone needs to light a fire under his butt. Maybe didn't work as hard this offseason feeling some stardom at an all time high level. Lets hope his early struggles wake him up to work harder or Tomlin gets on him.

They have this young 3rd round draft pick that is making plays all over the field in Wallace and has shown to be very sure handed. Hines said he is a smart WR and always knows what he is supposed to be doing.

They have Heath who catches everything and gets us at least 3 or 4 yards every time he catches the ball, most times much more.

They have Spaeth who showed he can be a good receiving TE last year in 2 games Heath was hurt and caught 6 for 53 against Indy and 6 catches for 55 yards the following week against San Diego. The dude is 6'7" and 270lbs. I have yet to see them just throw a jump ball up to this guy in goalline. He should be able to out muscle and out jump a 6' CB who weighs like 190lbs half the time.

They have an offensive line that has shown time and again that it struggles attempting to run the ball with any consistancy at all. But, they have shown to be pretty decent in pass blocking. Going from the no huddle would make the time they have to hold blocks shorter than slower developing plays.

They have RB that are more suited to a wide open style offense then a power offense. Although Mendenhall is big and muscular, he doesn't really run with much power at all for his size. Seems to have pretty good hole awareness and times hitting the hole decent when there is an apparent hole.

Parker seems to struggle finding the hole. He was a better RB and threat in his first few seasons for the simple fact that he was raw and fast as hell. If he got to the LOS and there wasn't a hole there was no hesitation to bounce it, beat the chasing defenders to the edge. He rarely does this anymore. Cowher and Bettis harped that out of him. They wanted to see him become a between the tackles RB. Showed some flashes of turning the corner against Cincy but is now injured again. I think he is done. Seems like once these speed players injure any part of their legs they diminish quickly. Parker would make a nice receiver out of the backfield but has been hit or miss catching the ball. Seems to have to stop or be close to standing still to catch the ball. The type of back we need to run a real efficient offense is a Kevin Faulk who catches on the run really well.

Mewelde Moore is the best back we have on our roster for the type of offense we should run. He is a great hot read and has sure hands. He seems to always pick up positive yards and honestly, I have seen quite a few plays where he is wide open for an 8 yard gain but Ben passes him in in his progressions and looks downfield. I have seen Ben take a couple sacks when Moore was wide open and he passed him up. Anyway, the thing I think Moore lacks is top end speed and elusiveness. Pretty generic RB but gets the job done.

I am not saying we should go crazy and go shotgun - no huddle the entire game. I just think if it is what you do best and have time and again shredded top of the line defenses with it and then stop using it for no reason, then you aren't playing to your strengths. If a teams secondary shows weakness, attack it. If they show they are going to start trying to jump routes on the short stuff then let Ben use that great pump fake of his and throw it to Holmes or Wallace going deep! And lead them Ben you candy arm!

JDSteeler
10-04-2009, 10:52 AM
After reading only TWO of his answers, I'm ready to jump off a
friggin BRIDGE!!!!

I can't stand this guy!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!

JD

feltdizz
10-04-2009, 08:17 PM
It's easy to talk play calling after the games are over but I think fans go overboard. We scream pass. But after a pick 6, we blame who? Arian. After a dropped tc and 4 dropped passes by holmes we blame Arian. After a sweeeeed drop we blame arians for being conservative.

I'm not an Arian apologist but damn... It's like the execution is irrelevant. Ward is a possession we. Holmes is a pro bowler in a rookies body until the playoffs. Our downfield weapon was Nate and we replaced him with a bust. Maybe Wallace is the answer... But you can't blame Arians when a guy misses a block. Running plays which ignore our flaws are impossible because each play is a crap shoot regarding said flaw.

Each positive play is ALL Ben and every negative play is a
Arians

BURGH86STEEL
10-04-2009, 08:45 PM
It's easy to talk play calling after the games are over but I think fans go overboard. We scream pass. But after a pick 6, we blame who? Arian. After a dropped tc and 4 dropped passes by holmes we blame Arian. After a sweeeeed drop we blame arians for being conservative.

I'm not an Arian apologist but damn... It's like the execution is irrelevant. Ward is a possession we. Holmes is a pro bowler in a rookies body until the playoffs. Our downfield weapon was Nate and we replaced him with a bust. Maybe Wallace is the answer... But you can't blame Arians when a guy misses a block. Running plays which ignore our flaws are impossible because each play is a crap shoot regarding said flaw.

Each positive play is ALL Ben and every negative play is a
Arians

I concur. Some people expect every play called to work. For whatever reasons, some fans have it out for Arians.

DukieBoy
10-05-2009, 12:35 AM
I'd personally hand Arians a game ball for the great strategy tonight.

Mister Pittsburgh
10-05-2009, 12:41 AM
Some people will just never get it. Done trying to reprove and endless point. Great game by Arians & the Steelers offense tonight against a weaker run stuffing team.

To whoever it was above saying it isn't Arians fault Holmes & Sweed dropped passes, no crap. I don't think any rational thinking person would say it is. The problem is he doesn't continue to throw the football because obviously those guys are in a position to succeed but failed at it. Keep putting them in that position. They came through vs. San Diego & Mendenhall had a tremendous night.

stlrz d
10-06-2009, 12:11 PM
It's easy to talk play calling after the games are over but I think fans go overboard. We scream pass. But after a pick 6, we blame who? Arian. After a dropped tc and 4 dropped passes by holmes we blame Arian. After a sweeeeed drop we blame arians for being conservative.

I'm not an Arian apologist but damn... It's like the execution is irrelevant. Ward is a possession we. Holmes is a pro bowler in a rookies body until the playoffs. Our downfield weapon was Nate and we replaced him with a bust. Maybe Wallace is the answer... But you can't blame Arians when a guy misses a block. Running plays which ignore our flaws are impossible because each play is a crap shoot regarding said flaw.

Each positive play is ALL Ben and every negative play is a
Arians

Here it is in really big letters for you so you can't possibly miss it:

NO ONE IS SAYING PLAYER EXECUTION IS IRRELEVANT. WHAT WE ARE SAYING IS ONCE PLAYS TAKE PLACE THEY ARE IN THE PAST AND THE PLAY CALLING IS NOT CONSISTENT WITH THE SITUATION. WE KNOW THAT THERE WERE MISSED OPPORTUNITIES BUT THE TEAM MUST MOVE ON FROM THEM AND CONTINUE TO PRESS FORWARD. FOR EXAMPLE, ONCE SWEED DROPPED THAT TD PASS IT NO LONGER COMES INTO PLAY...IT'S OVER AND THE TEAM HAS TO CONTINUE ON FROM THAT.

THAT IS THE COMPLAINT PEOPLE HAVE...THAT THE PLAY CALLING GOES TO TURTLE BALL AT INAPPROPRIATE TIMES. LIKE I POSTED ONCE BEFORE, ARIANS AND LEBEAU NEED TO KEEP THEIR FEET ON THE GAS PEDAL. NOT PEDAL TO THE METAL, BUT AT LEAST ON THE PEDAL...AND THEY CERTAINLY SHOULDN'T BE PUMPING THE BRAKES!

That should be abundantly clear to you, yes? This is not an either/or situation. People understand that there have been missed opportunities AND that the play calling has not been consistent with what has been successful for us.

And no one realistically expects EVERY play to work. But what we would like to see is more creativity in a time when the D is expecting something obvious. It cost us a win late in the Bengals game. Run, run, pass, punt. The Bengals knew we were going to try and run but we stubbornly tried to do it despite the LOS being stacked against it. That is just stupid...take what they give you, move the chains and burn clock. It's a simple concept really.

They did a much better job in the Chargers game (when Troy returns it will close up the middle of the field, which is what teams are exploiting on us) and I hope they continue with it.

Turtle ball = losing football. Period.

sd steel
10-07-2009, 12:47 AM
I get a real kick out of you getting mad because I quote one of your posts, and you cry like a little girl, then you have the balls to post in big letters like you are some football genius and you have to explain your "situational play calling" theory for the umpteenth time. (Main point of your awesome indepth theory, is "in different situations you call different plays"). :roll: The point is you don't know the assignments, you don't the audibles, and you don't know the plays to begin with. Maybe a pass was called by Arians, but Ben saw a key in the defense and audibled to change the play. The point is how do you know who is at fault if a play doesn't work. You don't. If Mendenhall had 25 yards instead of 165 yards against the Chargers, is it Arians fault, or is it the oline's for missing their assignments or the RB's for not hitting the hole and following his blocks?

I'm no "Arians apologist", but I know enough about football to realize that you can't reasonably throw blame at a single coach because the offense isn't clicking. To say otherwise is the mark of a casual fan who isn't sure what he is seeing, but he has to blame someone, and he read the article in the paper, and the OC used to coach with the Browns, so let's blame Arians. I would love to see some of you guys wear the coaching hat for a couple of days to see the big picture. (I know you already play in "coaching mode" on Madden).

But the big print is truly comical! :lol:

Flasteel
10-07-2009, 06:44 AM
I get a real kick out of you getting mad because I quote one of your posts, and you cry like a little girl, then you have the balls to post in big letters like you are some football genius and you have to explain your "situational play calling" theory for the umpteenth time. (Main point of your awesome indepth theory, is "in different situations you call different plays"). :roll: The point is you don't know the assignments, you don't the audibles, and you don't know the plays to begin with. Maybe a pass was called by Arians, but Ben saw a key in the defense and audibled to change the play. The point is how do you know who is at fault if a play doesn't work. You don't. If Mendenhall had 25 yards instead of 165 yards against the Chargers, is it Arians fault, or is it the oline's for missing their assignments or the RB's for not hitting the hole and following his blocks?

I'm no "Arians apologist", but I know enough about football to realize that you can't reasonably throw blame at a single coach because the offense isn't clicking. To say otherwise is the mark of a casual fan who isn't sure what he is seeing, but he has to blame someone, and he read the article in the paper, and the OC used to coach with the Browns, so let's blame Arians. I would love to see some of you guys wear the coaching hat for a couple of days to see the big picture. (I know you already play in "coaching mode" on Madden).

But the big print is truly comical! :lol:

I have coached (and never played Madden). I don't want to pretend to have more acqiured knowledge than BA, or any other guy that does this for a living, but Arians has been a liability as a coach. Last week was about as perfectly called game as he's ever had and there was evidence of creativity all over the place.

I've never seen either from Arians, let alone have both aspects occur in the same game. I wonder if someone else (Tomlin maybe) has their hand in the offensive cookie jar? If not, how did BA awake from this professional hibernation? Can he do it again?

Anyone who couldn't tell the difference between the play-calling last week and basically every other Steeler game the past 3 seasons is simply blind.

sd steel
10-07-2009, 09:34 AM
I get a real kick out of you getting mad because I quote one of your posts, and you cry like a little girl, then you have the balls to post in big letters like you are some football genius and you have to explain your "situational play calling" theory for the umpteenth time. (Main point of your awesome indepth theory, is "in different situations you call different plays"). :roll: The point is you don't know the assignments, you don't the audibles, and you don't know the plays to begin with. Maybe a pass was called by Arians, but Ben saw a key in the defense and audibled to change the play. The point is how do you know who is at fault if a play doesn't work. You don't. If Mendenhall had 25 yards instead of 165 yards against the Chargers, is it Arians fault, or is it the oline's for missing their assignments or the RB's for not hitting the hole and following his blocks?

I'm no "Arians apologist", but I know enough about football to realize that you can't reasonably throw blame at a single coach because the offense isn't clicking. To say otherwise is the mark of a casual fan who isn't sure what he is seeing, but he has to blame someone, and he read the article in the paper, and the OC used to coach with the Browns, so let's blame Arians. I would love to see some of you guys wear the coaching hat for a couple of days to see the big picture. (I know you already play in "coaching mode" on Madden).

But the big print is truly comical! :lol:

I have coached (and never played Madden). I don't want to pretend to have more acqiured knowledge than BA, or any other guy that does this for a living, but Arians has been a liability as a coach. Last week was about as perfectly called game as he's ever had and there was evidence of creativity all over the place.

I've never seen either from Arians, let alone have both aspects occur in the same game. I wonder if someone else (Tomlin maybe) has their hand in the offensive cookie jar? If not, how did BA awake from this professional hibernation? Can he do it again?

Anyone who couldn't tell the difference between the play-calling last week and basically every other Steeler game the past 3 seasons is simply blind.


My point FLA is you don't know. Maybe Tomlin has had his hand in it all along, and he just took it out. Maybe Tomlin has been requesting turtle in the 4th, maybe the opposing defense is giving us more of a prevent look in the 4th, disquising more run blitzes. You don't know the plays, you don't know the audibles, and you don't know who is making the calls. But sure you know who to blame.

sd steel
10-07-2009, 09:41 AM
I get a real kick out of you getting mad because I quote one of your posts, and you cry like a little girl, then you have the balls to post in big letters like you are some football genius and you have to explain your "situational play calling" theory for the umpteenth time. (Main point of your awesome indepth theory, is "in different situations you call different plays"). :roll: The point is you don't know the assignments, you don't the audibles, and you don't know the plays to begin with. Maybe a pass was called by Arians, but Ben saw a key in the defense and audibled to change the play. The point is how do you know who is at fault if a play doesn't work. You don't. If Mendenhall had 25 yards instead of 165 yards against the Chargers, is it Arians fault, or is it the oline's for missing their assignments or the RB's for not hitting the hole and following his blocks?

I'm no "Arians apologist", but I know enough about football to realize that you can't reasonably throw blame at a single coach because the offense isn't clicking. To say otherwise is the mark of a casual fan who isn't sure what he is seeing, but he has to blame someone, and he read the article in the paper, and the OC used to coach with the Browns, so let's blame Arians. I would love to see some of you guys wear the coaching hat for a couple of days to see the big picture. (I know you already play in "coaching mode" on Madden).

But the big print is truly comical! :lol:

I have coached (and never played Madden). I don't want to pretend to have more acqiured knowledge than BA, or any other guy that does this for a living, but Arians has been a liability as a coach. Last week was about as perfectly called game as he's ever had and there was evidence of creativity all over the place.

I've never seen either from Arians, let alone have both aspects occur in the same game. I wonder if someone else (Tomlin maybe) has their hand in the offensive cookie jar? If not, how did BA awake from this professional hibernation? Can he do it again?

Anyone who couldn't tell the difference between the play-calling last week and basically every other Steeler game the past 3 seasons is simply blind.

And you also say you have coached, so would a fan in your stands know why a play broke down immediately, and would you call a play that you didn't think will work and that you haven't executed perfectly 20 times in practice, and if everyone does their assignment it will work in the game for certain?? And would the fans in the stands know whether the qb is changing the calls or if the Head coached was helping you call the game??

stlrz d
10-07-2009, 12:13 PM
I get a real kick out of you getting mad because I quote one of your posts, and you cry like a little girl, then you have the balls to post in big letters like you are some football genius and you have to explain your "situational play calling" theory for the umpteenth time. (Main point of your awesome indepth theory, is "in different situations you call different plays"). :roll: The point is you don't know the assignments, you don't the audibles, and you don't know the plays to begin with. Maybe a pass was called by Arians, but Ben saw a key in the defense and audibled to change the play. The point is how do you know who is at fault if a play doesn't work. You don't. If Mendenhall had 25 yards instead of 165 yards against the Chargers, is it Arians fault, or is it the oline's for missing their assignments or the RB's for not hitting the hole and following his blocks?

I'm no "Arians apologist", but I know enough about football to realize that you can't reasonably throw blame at a single coach because the offense isn't clicking. To say otherwise is the mark of a casual fan who isn't sure what he is seeing, but he has to blame someone, and he read the article in the paper, and the OC used to coach with the Browns, so let's blame Arians. I would love to see some of you guys wear the coaching hat for a couple of days to see the big picture. (I know you already play in "coaching mode" on Madden).

But the big print is truly comical! :lol:

I have coached (and never played Madden). I don't want to pretend to have more acqiured knowledge than BA, or any other guy that does this for a living, but Arians has been a liability as a coach. Last week was about as perfectly called game as he's ever had and there was evidence of creativity all over the place.

I've never seen either from Arians, let alone have both aspects occur in the same game. I wonder if someone else (Tomlin maybe) has their hand in the offensive cookie jar? If not, how did BA awake from this professional hibernation? Can he do it again?

Anyone who couldn't tell the difference between the play-calling last week and basically every other Steeler game the past 3 seasons is simply blind.

Bravo! :Clap I've played football, coached football and even minored in coaching in college. And I don't play video games. I'm amazed that someone who claims to know so much about the game doesn't understand the concept of situational play calling and can't see that there was a clear, noticeable and irrefutable difference in the play calling for the Chargers game.

sd steel
10-07-2009, 12:30 PM
[quote="sd steel":3m0fpgct]I get a real kick out of you getting mad because I quote one of your posts, and you cry like a little girl, then you have the balls to post in big letters like you are some football genius and you have to explain your "situational play calling" theory for the umpteenth time. (Main point of your awesome indepth theory, is "in different situations you call different plays"). :roll: The point is you don't know the assignments, you don't the audibles, and you don't know the plays to begin with. Maybe a pass was called by Arians, but Ben saw a key in the defense and audibled to change the play. The point is how do you know who is at fault if a play doesn't work. You don't. If Mendenhall had 25 yards instead of 165 yards against the Chargers, is it Arians fault, or is it the oline's for missing their assignments or the RB's for not hitting the hole and following his blocks?

I'm no "Arians apologist", but I know enough about football to realize that you can't reasonably throw blame at a single coach because the offense isn't clicking. To say otherwise is the mark of a casual fan who isn't sure what he is seeing, but he has to blame someone, and he read the article in the paper, and the OC used to coach with the Browns, so let's blame Arians. I would love to see some of you guys wear the coaching hat for a couple of days to see the big picture. (I know you already play in "coaching mode" on Madden).

But the big print is truly comical! :lol:

I have coached (and never played Madden). I don't want to pretend to have more acqiured knowledge than BA, or any other guy that does this for a living, but Arians has been a liability as a coach. Last week was about as perfectly called game as he's ever had and there was evidence of creativity all over the place.

I've never seen either from Arians, let alone have both aspects occur in the same game. I wonder if someone else (Tomlin maybe) has their hand in the offensive cookie jar? If not, how did BA awake from this professional hibernation? Can he do it again?

Anyone who couldn't tell the difference between the play-calling last week and basically every other Steeler game the past 3 seasons is simply blind.

Bravo! :Clap I've played football, coached football and even minored in coaching in college. And I don't play video games. I'm amazed that someone who claims to know so much about the game doesn't understand the concept of situational play calling and can't see that there was a clear, noticeable and irrefutable difference in the play calling for the Chargers game.[/quote:3m0fpgct]

But we don't even know for certain what plays are being called, who is calling them or dictating what plays are to be called, or whether the QB is audibling. If you coached, do you really think that a fan in the stands understands your capabilities and play book better than you? Do you think a fan could call a better game than you because they think you should throw more on first down, or be more creative on 3rd and 2? Do you think you as a coach would have more info on your own team to know what plays, if executed properly will work in a given situation? Just asking.

stlrz d
10-07-2009, 01:19 PM
[quote=Flasteel][quote="sd steel":1zp04ehw]I get a real kick out of you getting mad because I quote one of your posts, and you cry like a little girl, then you have the balls to post in big letters like you are some football genius and you have to explain your "situational play calling" theory for the umpteenth time. (Main point of your awesome indepth theory, is "in different situations you call different plays"). :roll: The point is you don't know the assignments, you don't the audibles, and you don't know the plays to begin with. Maybe a pass was called by Arians, but Ben saw a key in the defense and audibled to change the play. The point is how do you know who is at fault if a play doesn't work. You don't. If Mendenhall had 25 yards instead of 165 yards against the Chargers, is it Arians fault, or is it the oline's for missing their assignments or the RB's for not hitting the hole and following his blocks?

I'm no "Arians apologist", but I know enough about football to realize that you can't reasonably throw blame at a single coach because the offense isn't clicking. To say otherwise is the mark of a casual fan who isn't sure what he is seeing, but he has to blame someone, and he read the article in the paper, and the OC used to coach with the Browns, so let's blame Arians. I would love to see some of you guys wear the coaching hat for a couple of days to see the big picture. (I know you already play in "coaching mode" on Madden).

But the big print is truly comical! :lol:

I have coached (and never played Madden). I don't want to pretend to have more acqiured knowledge than BA, or any other guy that does this for a living, but Arians has been a liability as a coach. Last week was about as perfectly called game as he's ever had and there was evidence of creativity all over the place.

I've never seen either from Arians, let alone have both aspects occur in the same game. I wonder if someone else (Tomlin maybe) has their hand in the offensive cookie jar? If not, how did BA awake from this professional hibernation? Can he do it again?

Anyone who couldn't tell the difference between the play-calling last week and basically every other Steeler game the past 3 seasons is simply blind.

Bravo! :Clap I've played football, coached football and even minored in coaching in college. And I don't play video games. I'm amazed that someone who claims to know so much about the game doesn't understand the concept of situational play calling and can't see that there was a clear, noticeable and irrefutable difference in the play calling for the Chargers game.[/quote:1zp04ehw]

But we don't even know for certain what plays are being called, who is calling them or dictating what plays are to be called, or whether the QB is audibling. If you coached, do you really think that a fan in the stands understands your capabilities and play book better than you? Do you think a fan could call a better game than you because they think you should throw more on first down, or be more creative on 3rd and 2? Do you think you as a coach would have more info on your own team to know what plays, if executed properly will work in a given situation? Just asking.[/quote:1zp04ehw]

It's really ALL speculation on our part man. You can speculate that audibles are or are not being called, or that players are failing to execute (which is not always the case) just as much as I can speculate that the play calling is an issue.

Look, I'm not saying that I can call a game better than Arians, but what I am saying is that I can see that IF he is the person calling the plays, and calling them in certain situations, then he needs to improve on that by becoming more creative, by going away from tendencies, etc.

My biggest beef is the turtle ball. Especially with a slim lead and a lot of time left on the clock. We are not a power running team anymore. That tactic worked in the past when we had a tremendous run blocking O line and a HoF power back behind it. It doesn't work anymore. And actually, if you look around the league, the rules that now favor the offense are making it difficult for a lot of teams to close out games.

I just want to see Arians and LeBeau with their feet on the gas pedal...and not pumping the brakes is all. I'm not asking for the ball to be thrown deep on a first and ten when we have a 5 point lead with over 8 minutes left...I'm just asking that they not be afraid to throw even short passes in that situation...especially when the D is stacked against the run. If I'm standing in front of a 4' high brick wall and can't go through it or around it there IS another option that I probably can do...that option is to go over it. That's all man...just go over it if that option exists.

JTP53609
10-07-2009, 01:36 PM
i came on here ranting and raving about how we did not go for the kill in cincy, but i know believe i was wrong, i think we did go for the kill, had it not been for all the drops and the miss on fourth and 3, than we blow them out of the water, santonio messed up a route which gave them 7 points and our defense sucked at the end....the players did not exectute..

stlrz d
10-07-2009, 01:47 PM
i came on here ranting and raving about how we did not go for the kill in cincy, but i know believe i was wrong, i think we did go for the kill, had it not been for all the drops and the miss on fourth and 3, than we blow them out of the water, santonio messed up a route which gave them 7 points and our defense sucked at the end....the players did not exectute..

Once those things have occurred they are in the past and you have to deal with the situation as it exists.

Run, run, pass, punt with a 5 point lead and over 8 minutes on the clock is not going for the kill or even keeping the foot on the gas pedal. Going to a soft zone behind the front seven and not running any zone blitzes is not going for the kill or even keeping the foot on the gas pedal. That is classic "pumping the brakes".

JTP53609
10-07-2009, 02:39 PM
i came on here ranting and raving about how we did not go for the kill in cincy, but i know believe i was wrong, i think we did go for the kill, had it not been for all the drops and the miss on fourth and 3, than we blow them out of the water, santonio messed up a route which gave them 7 points and our defense sucked at the end....the players did not exectute..

Once those things have occurred they are in the past and you have to deal with the situation as it exists.

Run, run, pass, punt with a 5 point lead and over 8 minutes on the clock is not going for the kill or even keeping the foot on the gas pedal. Going to a soft zone behind the front seven and not running any zone blitzes is not going for the kill or even keeping the foot on the gas pedal. That is classic "pumping the brakes".


i agree with you on the defensive side, they were bad that game, but the offense did take it shots, yea the last possesion was pretty conservative, but at least they went for the pass on third down rather than the run....

Flasteel
10-07-2009, 04:45 PM
[quote="sd steel":5xc6zqfx]I get a real kick out of you getting mad because I quote one of your posts, and you cry like a little girl, then you have the balls to post in big letters like you are some football genius and you have to explain your "situational play calling" theory for the umpteenth time. (Main point of your awesome indepth theory, is "in different situations you call different plays"). :roll: The point is you don't know the assignments, you don't the audibles, and you don't know the plays to begin with. Maybe a pass was called by Arians, but Ben saw a key in the defense and audibled to change the play. The point is how do you know who is at fault if a play doesn't work. You don't. If Mendenhall had 25 yards instead of 165 yards against the Chargers, is it Arians fault, or is it the oline's for missing their assignments or the RB's for not hitting the hole and following his blocks?

I'm no "Arians apologist", but I know enough about football to realize that you can't reasonably throw blame at a single coach because the offense isn't clicking. To say otherwise is the mark of a casual fan who isn't sure what he is seeing, but he has to blame someone, and he read the article in the paper, and the OC used to coach with the Browns, so let's blame Arians. I would love to see some of you guys wear the coaching hat for a couple of days to see the big picture. (I know you already play in "coaching mode" on Madden).

But the big print is truly comical! :lol:

I have coached (and never played Madden). I don't want to pretend to have more acqiured knowledge than BA, or any other guy that does this for a living, but Arians has been a liability as a coach. Last week was about as perfectly called game as he's ever had and there was evidence of creativity all over the place.

I've never seen either from Arians, let alone have both aspects occur in the same game. I wonder if someone else (Tomlin maybe) has their hand in the offensive cookie jar? If not, how did BA awake from this professional hibernation? Can he do it again?

Anyone who couldn't tell the difference between the play-calling last week and basically every other Steeler game the past 3 seasons is simply blind.


My point FLA is you don't know. Maybe Tomlin has had his hand in it all along, and he just took it out. Maybe Tomlin has been requesting turtle in the 4th, maybe the opposing defense is giving us more of a prevent look in the 4th, disquising more run blitzes. You don't know the plays, you don't know the audibles, and you don't know who is making the calls. But sure you know who to blame.[/quote:5xc6zqfx]

SD, I know you're knowledgable to the X's & O's (Fullback, right?), so I'm not trying to imply anything with that statement. That said, the body of evidence over three seasons clearly shows that our offense bears the mark of Bruce Arians. His philosophies, formations, and in-game play-calling are all reminiscent of his days in Cleveland and a marked turn from where we were when he arrived (albeit at the same time as Tomlin).

I couldn't agree more with the thought process of ridiculing specific plays or particular games, because the bottom line is we just don't know all of the variables. A perfect example was the hands team on the onside kick Sunday. I was critical that we didn't have the "hands team" out there but when Tomlin explained his thinking and rationale, I was down with it. However, when you consider the entire body of work and see the consistent failures it becomes very easy to point the finger at the correct suspect.

My problem started with Arians' inability to help the line in pass protection during the '07 season. He did next to nothing in terms of play-calling to counter the opposing pass rush and it continued throughout most of last year. It's only very recently that he even incorporated the no-huddle and that has turned out to be our most potent package. We still don't use it enough and he doesn't seem to have a great feel for when to use it.

I could go on and on about the very basic things that Arians fails to do or does which have hurt this team. But I will say that Sunday's game was a friggin' masterpiece. Sure the execution was great. We've had that same level of execution by the players before but have never had a 60-minute performance like that (under Arians) because the execution wasn't matched with great play-calling.

Personally, I don't care how it came about or whose influence was involved. If we can achieve that same level of performance from our players and offensive coaches each week, we're golden.

RuthlessBurgher
10-07-2009, 06:41 PM
His philosophies, formations, and in-game play-calling are all reminiscent of his days in Cleveland and a marked turn from where we were when he arrived (albeit at the same time as Tomlin).

For what it is worth, Arians did not arrive in Pittsburgh at the same time as Tomlin. He was the WR coach here from 2004–2006 under Cowher (when Whisenhunt was the O.C.). Granted, he wasn't the one calling the plays back then, but we did win 2 Super Bowls with Bruce Arians on our coaching staff (XL as a WR coach and XLIII as an O.C.). The anti-Tomlin contingent who complains that he only won a Super Bowl because of Cowher's players could make a similar argument about Cowher's coaches (Arians, LeBeau, Mitchell, Butler, Horton, and Spanos are all holdovers from the Cowher years).

Flasteel
10-07-2009, 07:34 PM
His philosophies, formations, and in-game play-calling are all reminiscent of his days in Cleveland and a marked turn from where we were when he arrived (albeit at the same time as Tomlin).

For what it is worth, Arians did not arrive in Pittsburgh at the same time as Tomlin. He was the WR coach here from 2004–2006 under Cowher (when Whisenhunt was the O.C.). Granted, he wasn't the one calling the plays back then, but we did win 2 Super Bowls with Bruce Arians on our coaching staff (XL as a WR coach and XLIII as an O.C.). The anti-Tomlin contingent who complains that he only won a Super Bowl because of Cowher's players could make a similar argument about Cowher's coaches (Arians, LeBeau, Mitchell, Butler, Horton, and Spanos are all holdovers from the Cowher years).

Thanks RB...I forgot about your masters degree in semantics. :P

sd steel
10-07-2009, 10:56 PM
His philosophies, formations, and in-game play-calling are all reminiscent of his days in Cleveland and a marked turn from where we were when he arrived (albeit at the same time as Tomlin).

For what it is worth, Arians did not arrive in Pittsburgh at the same time as Tomlin. He was the WR coach here from 2004–2006 under Cowher (when Whisenhunt was the O.C.). Granted, he wasn't the one calling the plays back then, but we did win 2 Super Bowls with Bruce Arians on our coaching staff (XL as a WR coach and XLIII as an O.C.). The anti-Tomlin contingent who complains that he only won a Super Bowl because of Cowher's players could make a similar argument about Cowher's coaches (Arians, LeBeau, Mitchell, Butler, Horton, and Spanos are all holdovers from the Cowher years).

Thanks RB...I forgot about your masters degree in semantics. :P

What I find funny is people talking about Arians Cleveland days, they were basically a new franchise at the time, and he was the OC when the Browns last made the playoffs in 2002, then their franchise imploded when the lost Dwight Clark. As far as his body of work with the Steelers, in 2 years he was the OC when we made the playoffs after our 2006 debacle, and he was the OC when we won our 6th Super Bowl. Not a bad body of work as an OC in my opinion.

sd steel
10-07-2009, 11:03 PM
[quote="stlrz d":1o0dt35n][quote=Flasteel][quote="sd steel":1o0dt35n]I get a real kick out of you getting mad because I quote one of your posts, and you cry like a little girl, then you have the balls to post in big letters like you are some football genius and you have to explain your "situational play calling" theory for the umpteenth time. (Main point of your awesome indepth theory, is "in different situations you call different plays"). :roll: The point is you don't know the assignments, you don't the audibles, and you don't know the plays to begin with. Maybe a pass was called by Arians, but Ben saw a key in the defense and audibled to change the play. The point is how do you know who is at fault if a play doesn't work. You don't. If Mendenhall had 25 yards instead of 165 yards against the Chargers, is it Arians fault, or is it the oline's for missing their assignments or the RB's for not hitting the hole and following his blocks?

I'm no "Arians apologist", but I know enough about football to realize that you can't reasonably throw blame at a single coach because the offense isn't clicking. To say otherwise is the mark of a casual fan who isn't sure what he is seeing, but he has to blame someone, and he read the article in the paper, and the OC used to coach with the Browns, so let's blame Arians. I would love to see some of you guys wear the coaching hat for a couple of days to see the big picture. (I know you already play in "coaching mode" on Madden).

But the big print is truly comical! :lol:

I have coached (and never played Madden). I don't want to pretend to have more acqiured knowledge than BA, or any other guy that does this for a living, but Arians has been a liability as a coach. Last week was about as perfectly called game as he's ever had and there was evidence of creativity all over the place.

I've never seen either from Arians, let alone have both aspects occur in the same game. I wonder if someone else (Tomlin maybe) has their hand in the offensive cookie jar? If not, how did BA awake from this professional hibernation? Can he do it again?

Anyone who couldn't tell the difference between the play-calling last week and basically every other Steeler game the past 3 seasons is simply blind.

Bravo! :Clap I've played football, coached football and even minored in coaching in college. And I don't play video games. I'm amazed that someone who claims to know so much about the game doesn't understand the concept of situational play calling and can't see that there was a clear, noticeable and irrefutable difference in the play calling for the Chargers game.[/quote:1o0dt35n]

But we don't even know for certain what plays are being called, who is calling them or dictating what plays are to be called, or whether the QB is audibling. If you coached, do you really think that a fan in the stands understands your capabilities and play book better than you? Do you think a fan could call a better game than you because they think you should throw more on first down, or be more creative on 3rd and 2? Do you think you as a coach would have more info on your own team to know what plays, if executed properly will work in a given situation? Just asking.[/quote:1o0dt35n]

It's really ALL speculation on our part man. You can speculate that audibles are or are not being called, or that players are failing to execute (which is not always the case) just as much as I can speculate that the play calling is an issue.

Look, I'm not saying that I can call a game better than Arians, but what I am saying is that I can see that IF he is the person calling the plays, and calling them in certain situations, then he needs to improve on that by becoming more creative, by going away from tendencies, etc.

My biggest beef is the turtle ball. Especially with a slim lead and a lot of time left on the clock. We are not a power running team anymore. That tactic worked in the past when we had a tremendous run blocking O line and a HoF power back behind it. It doesn't work anymore. And actually, if you look around the league, the rules that now favor the offense are making it difficult for a lot of teams to close out games.

I just want to see Arians and LeBeau with their feet on the gas pedal...and not pumping the brakes is all. I'm not asking for the ball to be thrown deep on a first and ten when we have a 5 point lead with over 8 minutes left...I'm just asking that they not be afraid to throw even short passes in that situation...especially when the D is stacked against the run. If I'm standing in front of a 4' high brick wall and can't go through it or around it there IS another option that I probably can do...that option is to go over it. That's all man...just go over it if that option exists.[/quote:1o0dt35n]

I'm not disagreeing that going prevent and turtle on offense is a bad thing, but Cowher did it for 15 years, and everyone blamed Cowher, not the numerous OC's we have had over the years. But you said what I wanted to hear, you are blaming Arians on speculation, which I won't do because I don't see the blame falling in one place, and why blame one guy, when you can pin point our 2 losses on players not executing. I am sure if the players caught the balls, ran the right patterns and made the kicks we would have won both games going away.

Flasteel
10-07-2009, 11:14 PM
His philosophies, formations, and in-game play-calling are all reminiscent of his days in Cleveland and a marked turn from where we were when he arrived (albeit at the same time as Tomlin).

For what it is worth, Arians did not arrive in Pittsburgh at the same time as Tomlin. He was the WR coach here from 2004–2006 under Cowher (when Whisenhunt was the O.C.). Granted, he wasn't the one calling the plays back then, but we did win 2 Super Bowls with Bruce Arians on our coaching staff (XL as a WR coach and XLIII as an O.C.). The anti-Tomlin contingent who complains that he only won a Super Bowl because of Cowher's players could make a similar argument about Cowher's coaches (Arians, LeBeau, Mitchell, Butler, Horton, and Spanos are all holdovers from the Cowher years).

Thanks RB...I forgot about your masters degree in semantics. :P

What I find funny is people talking about Arians Cleveland days, they were basically a new franchise at the time, and he was the OC when the Browns last made the playoffs in 2002, then their franchise imploded when the lost Dwight Clark. As far as his body of work with the Steelers, in 2 years he was the OC when we made the playoffs after our 2006 debacle, and he was the OC when we won our 6th Super Bowl. Not a bad body of work as an OC in my opinion.

I'm sure those two Super Bowls look good on Rodgers Freyvogel's resume as well. :wink:

stlrz d
10-07-2009, 11:19 PM
Not necessarily man. If any of those missed opportunities actually are made earlier in the game there's no telling for sure that we wouldn't go turtle earlier in the game.

Cowher went turtle because he had a dominant O line and a back who afforded him the opportunity to do so. That's not the case with this Steelers team.

The foot needs to remain on the pedal with this team. You saw why in the Chargers game. Just keep scoring points because you never know how many will be enough.

Look, it's clear we are never going to agree on this. I see no point in continuing. It's not a "somebody won or somebody lost" thing...we just are not going to agree. I see it as being more one thing and you see it as being more something else. I guess that's all there is to it.

sd steel
10-07-2009, 11:48 PM
Not necessarily man. If any of those missed opportunities actually are made earlier in the game there's no telling for sure that we wouldn't go turtle earlier in the game.

Cowher went turtle because he had a dominant O line and a back who afforded him the opportunity to do so. That's not the case with this Steelers team.

The foot needs to remain on the pedal with this team. You saw why in the Chargers game. Just keep scoring points because you never know how many will be enough.

Look, it's clear we are never going to agree on this. I see no point in continuing. It's not a "somebody won or somebody lost" thing...we just are not going to agree. I see it as being more one thing and you see it as being more something else. I guess that's all there is to it.

I agree that you will not sway me, but you said you are basing your dislike of Arians as our OC on speculation....so I win! :tt1 :lol:

I think we agree on alot of other stuff though, so I won't hold this silly argument against you. :Cheers

stlrz d
10-07-2009, 11:54 PM
Whatever. It's clear to me the play calling changed.

feltdizz
10-08-2009, 11:50 PM
I just think it's a little idiotic to think our O will succeed by going for the throat EVERY snap after the players blow a golden opportunity. Some fans are quick to ignore the obvious drops and lack of execution and just expect Arians to recreate that open WR downfield...

once a player drops a sure 6 points there is no way to replay the same play and expect the same result. The other team has coaches too and they adjust when they see a WR wide open...

I kinda hear what you are saying stlr D but I don't agree... when you say a drop happened and it's in the past you also have to accept that the weak D on that play has passed as well. It sounds like you think the D will not adjust and we can just dial up the same play.... but it's not that easy.. you can't go deep because it was open before.. it was open because we set the D up...

also remember Ben does a lot of sandlot so Arians could be calling gems and Ben is just going for broke and ignoring throws that will move the chains....

stlrz d
10-09-2009, 07:21 AM
You don't seem to be getting the gist of the point after 5 pages so I will kindly refrain from discussing it further. Have a nice day. Go Steelers. :)