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stlrz d
09-30-2009, 11:22 AM
I'm watching NFLN Total Access and I've seen it several times now. I don't remember who pointed it out (mshifko maybe?) that his elbow hitting the ground really is what knocked the ball out.

I'm going to put this part in really big font so it's not missed:

It is his job to hold onto that ball and I really wish he had...but unfortunately he did not.

Now here's another take...I felt this way when I saw it live and nothing has changed my opinion. I think Sweed was a victim of the "if the receiver goes to the ground he must maintain complete control of the ball (the troy rule?) all the way down" rule.

I absolutely *despise* this rule. If you look at the play again you can see that Sweed catches the ball, bobbles it for just a split second, clutches it to his body, takes two steps, goes to the ground and loses the ball when his right elbow hits the ground.

It infuriates me that the above scenario is not a TD even though the receiver had possession of the ball and had both feet down in the EZ. Imo, this should be no different than a player having possession of the ball on the field of play sticking the ball across the goal line without ever crossing that line himself.

Again: It is his job to hold onto that ball and I really wish he had...but unfortunately he did not.

But imo, this "maintain control all the way to the ground" rule is BS.

flippy
09-30-2009, 11:27 AM
It's his fault for being so gangly and awkward.

Looking back it took Plax a while to get used to his clumsiness.

I think Sweed can eventually be as dominant as Plax.

Let's just hope he doesn't shoot himself first.

BDESteel
09-30-2009, 11:41 AM
What ever happened to the ground can't cause a fumble rule?

Djfan
09-30-2009, 11:43 AM
Or the fan base doesn't "Shoot him" first.

ikestops85
09-30-2009, 11:47 AM
What ever happened to the ground can't cause a fumble rule?

It can't cause a fumble ... it CAN cause an incompletion.

Steeler Mafia
09-30-2009, 11:47 AM
But imo, this "maintain control all the way to the ground" rule is BS.

I agree that this rule is BS. It contradicts the "player safety" philosophy that the NFL has recently adopted. What you should see now are bone shattering hits on the sidelines and in the endzone to knock the WR to the ground and see if they can maintain the catch. Then the league will come back later and neuter the defense so that these hits will be illegal or hand out more unsportmanlike conduct penalties. Why couldn't they just leave well enough alone?

This new brand of football is nausiating. :HeadBanger

grotonsteel
09-30-2009, 12:26 PM
I still don't understand why did he go down....he could have easily continued running after the catch in the end zone. There was no need for him to slide on the ground.

Chucktownsteeler
09-30-2009, 12:27 PM
I watched the instant replay and you are correct, it was a catch, tweo feet down and ball jarred loose when his elbow hit the ground.

I was truly waiting for Tomlin to challenge the ruling on the field.

I think this was a blown opportunity not to challenge. I may be in the minority, but I think it was a TD.

Chucktown

:2c

anger 82&95
09-30-2009, 12:29 PM
I'm watching NFLN Total Access and I've seen it several times now. I don't remember who pointed it out (mshifko maybe?) that his elbow hitting the ground really is what knocked the ball out.

I'm going to put this part in really big font so it's not missed:

It is his job to hold onto that ball and I really wish he had...but unfortunately he did not.

Now here's another take...I felt this way when I saw it live and nothing has changed my opinion. I think Sweed was a victim of the "if the receiver goes to the ground he must maintain complete control of the ball (the troy rule?) all the way down" rule.

I absolutely *despise* this rule. If you look at the play again you can see that Sweed catches the ball, bobbles it for just a split second, clutches it to his body, takes two steps, goes to the ground and loses the ball when his right elbow hits the ground.

It infuriates me that the above scenario is not a TD even though the receiver had possession of the ball and had both feet down in the EZ. Imo, this should be no different than a player having possession of the ball on the field of play sticking the ball across the goal line without ever crossing that line himself.

Again: It is his job to hold onto that ball and I really wish he had...but unfortunately he did not.

But imo, this "maintain control all the way to the ground" rule is BS.
So, are you now Sweed’s personal apologist??? Are we supposed to accept this non-catching milquetoast based on unobserved potentialities??? Are we… Sorry, with your bolded emphasis I simply couldn’t resist.

stlrz d
09-30-2009, 12:29 PM
I watched the instant replay and you are correct, it was a catch, tweo feet down and ball jarred loose when his elbow hit the ground.

I was truly waiting for Tomlin to challenge the ruling on the field.

I think this was a blown opportunity not to challenge. I may be in the minority, but I think it was a TD.

Chucktown

:2c

He would have lost though. After the refs blew the call on the Troy pick in the '05 playoff game the NFL changed the rule to say any pass receiver must maintain possession of the ball all the way to the ground...and then come up with the ball.

Like I said, I really hate this rule. And not just because we got burned with it...I hate it because everyone gets burned with it...just like the no-call holding on outside pass rushers. That's a league wide issue as well.

RuthlessBurgher
09-30-2009, 12:30 PM
I watched the instant replay and you are correct, it was a catch, tweo feet down and ball jarred loose when his elbow hit the ground.

I was truly waiting for Tomlin to challenge the ruling on the field.

I think this was a blown opportunity not to challenge. I may be in the minority, but I think it was a TD.

Chucktown

:2c

The refs reviewed a similar play the week before (it was in the Oakland game, I think it was Louis Murphy who caught the pass with both feet down in the end zone), and in that instance, after the replay the ref said that it was no catch because the ball was jarred loose when he hit the ground.

stlrz d
09-30-2009, 12:31 PM
[quote="stlrz d":34kor00l]I'm watching NFLN Total Access and I've seen it several times now. I don't remember who pointed it out (mshifko maybe?) that his elbow hitting the ground really is what knocked the ball out.

I'm going to put this part in really big font so it's not missed:

It is his job to hold onto that ball and I really wish he had...but unfortunately he did not.

Now here's another take...I felt this way when I saw it live and nothing has changed my opinion. I think Sweed was a victim of the "if the receiver goes to the ground he must maintain complete control of the ball (the troy rule?) all the way down" rule.

I absolutely *despise* this rule. If you look at the play again you can see that Sweed catches the ball, bobbles it for just a split second, clutches it to his body, takes two steps, goes to the ground and loses the ball when his right elbow hits the ground.

It infuriates me that the above scenario is not a TD even though the receiver had possession of the ball and had both feet down in the EZ. Imo, this should be no different than a player having possession of the ball on the field of play sticking the ball across the goal line without ever crossing that line himself.

Again: It is his job to hold onto that ball and I really wish he had...but unfortunately he did not.

But imo, this "maintain control all the way to the ground" rule is BS.
So, are you now Sweed’s personal apologist??? Are we supposed to accept this non-catching milquetoast based on unobserved potentialities??? Are we… Sorry, with your bolded emphasis I simply couldn’t resist.[/quote:34kor00l]

No apologies...just pointing out that I hate the rule as it is now. I have since they instituted it.

stlrz d
09-30-2009, 12:32 PM
I watched the instant replay and you are correct, it was a catch, tweo feet down and ball jarred loose when his elbow hit the ground.

I was truly waiting for Tomlin to challenge the ruling on the field.

I think this was a blown opportunity not to challenge. I may be in the minority, but I think it was a TD.

Chucktown

:2c

The refs reviewed a similar play the week before (it was in the Oakland game, I think it was Louis Murphy who caught the pass with both feet down in the end zone), and in that instance, after the replay the ref said that it was no catch because the ball was jarred loose when he hit the ground.

Yup...Murphy was the first victim of the rule this season. Sweed was the second.

It's a bad rule.

snarky
09-30-2009, 12:33 PM
I thought that rule only applied if he was hit by a defender going to ground while in the process of making the catch. My memory of the play might be wrong, but i thought he was clear of the D. In which case it should have been challenged.

Djfan
09-30-2009, 12:33 PM
[quote="stlrz d":39zmn649]But imo, this "maintain control all the way to the ground" rule is BS.

I agree that this rule is BS. It contradicts the "player safety" philosophy that the NFL has recently adopted. What you should see now are bone shattering hits on the sidelines and in the endzone to knock the WR to the ground and see if they can maintain the catch. Then the league will come back later and neuter the defense so that these hits will be illegal or hand out more unsportmanlike conduct penalties. Why couldn't they just leave well enough alone?

This new brand of football is nausiating. :HeadBanger[/quote:39zmn649]


You got that right. There is a gap that the UFC (or whatever that new league is called) could fill. I hate to say it, but the new Goodell led NFL is leaving true fans behind.

stlrz d
09-30-2009, 12:34 PM
I still don't understand why did he go down....he could have easily continued running after the catch in the end zone. There was no need for him to slide on the ground.

The only thing I can figure on that is maybe he wasn't aware of exactly where he was in the EZ and he wanted to make sure he came down in the EZ?

JTP53609
09-30-2009, 12:35 PM
isnt limas sweeds dad a preacher, maybe he could pull some string and get the man upstairs to help out limas....

stlrz d
09-30-2009, 12:36 PM
I thought that rule only applied if he was hit by a defender going to ground while in the process of making the catch. My memory of the play might be wrong, but i thought he was clear of the D. In which case it should have been challenged.

Boy I'm not sure on that one...and the NFL, unfortunately, doesn't make available their complete rule book.

But again, I'm 100% positive the rule was changed due to Troy's pick in the Colts playoff game...and he wasn't touched by anyone.

SteelerNation1
09-30-2009, 12:38 PM
My biggest problem with this rule goes way back to 2007 in Arizona. Jeremy Urban caught a ball in the end zone and someone slapped it out of his hands (can't remember who). They initially ruled it incomplete and Whiz challenged and they overturned it saying he had contraol...albeit for a nanosecond. If you watch Louis Murphy's catch vs SD or Sweed's vs Cincy, they both possessed the ball way longet than Urban. Anyone remember the play I'm talking about?

Slapstick
09-30-2009, 12:44 PM
For the longest time, I didn't know what the NFL definition of a catch actually is...

Let's look at the SB...if Santonio had lost his grip on the ball when Francisco knocked him out of the end zone, it would have been incomplete despite the fact that he had control with two feet down in bounds...

That's messed up...

anger 82&95
09-30-2009, 12:45 PM
[quote="anger 82&95":7gi1yrqi][quote="stlrz d":7gi1yrqi]I'm watching NFLN Total Access and I've seen it several times now. I don't remember who pointed it out (mshifko maybe?) that his elbow hitting the ground really is what knocked the ball out.

I'm going to put this part in really big font so it's not missed:

It is his job to hold onto that ball and I really wish he had...but unfortunately he did not.

Now here's another take...I felt this way when I saw it live and nothing has changed my opinion. I think Sweed was a victim of the "if the receiver goes to the ground he must maintain complete control of the ball (the troy rule?) all the way down" rule.

I absolutely *despise* this rule. If you look at the play again you can see that Sweed catches the ball, bobbles it for just a split second, clutches it to his body, takes two steps, goes to the ground and loses the ball when his right elbow hits the ground.

It infuriates me that the above scenario is not a TD even though the receiver had possession of the ball and had both feet down in the EZ. Imo, this should be no different than a player having possession of the ball on the field of play sticking the ball across the goal line without ever crossing that line himself.

Again: It is his job to hold onto that ball and I really wish he had...but unfortunately he did not.

But imo, this "maintain control all the way to the ground" rule is BS.
So, are you now Sweed’s personal apologist??? Are we supposed to accept this non-catching milquetoast based on unobserved potentialities??? Are we… Sorry, with your bolded emphasis I simply couldn’t resist.[/quote:7gi1yrqi]

No apologies...just pointing out that I hate the rule as it is now. I have since they instituted it.[/quote:7gi1yrqi]
It’s a ridiculous rule! I originally thought Sweed had made the catch and thus ditched the monkey clinging to his back…

drprwnap
09-30-2009, 12:49 PM
[quote="flippy"]


I think Sweed can eventually be as dominant as Plax.

quote]
NEVER GONNA HAPPEN!! SWEED CAN'T CATCH, PERIOD.

Slapstick
09-30-2009, 12:51 PM
NEVER GONNA HAPPEN!! SWEED CAN'T CATCH, PERIOD.

Neither could Plax in 2000...

BradshawsHairdresser
09-30-2009, 12:55 PM
NEVER GONNA HAPPEN!! SWEED CAN'T CATCH, PERIOD.

Neither could Plax in 2000...

Neither will Plax in 2009. Unless by "catch" we're talking Swine Flu or something....l

BradshawsHairdresser
09-30-2009, 01:01 PM
I'm watching NFLN Total Access and I've seen it several times now. I don't remember who pointed it out (mshifko maybe?) that his elbow hitting the ground really is what knocked the ball out.

I'm going to put this part in really big font so it's not missed:

It is his job to hold onto that ball and I really wish he had...but unfortunately he did not.

Now here's another take...I felt this way when I saw it live and nothing has changed my opinion. I think Sweed was a victim of the "if the receiver goes to the ground he must maintain complete control of the ball (the troy rule?) all the way down" rule.

I absolutely *despise* this rule. If you look at the play again you can see that Sweed catches the ball, bobbles it for just a split second, clutches it to his body, takes two steps, goes to the ground and loses the ball when his right elbow hits the ground.

It infuriates me that the above scenario is not a TD even though the receiver had possession of the ball and had both feet down in the EZ. Imo, this should be no different than a player having possession of the ball on the field of play sticking the ball across the goal line without ever crossing that line himself.

Again: It is his job to hold onto that ball and I really wish he had...but unfortunately he did not.

But imo, this "maintain control all the way to the ground" rule is BS.

Differing opinion--I think the receiver SHOULD have to maintain control all the way to the ground. I also DON'T think a player should be able to score a touch down by "sticking the ball across the goal line without crossing the line himself". If you have to get two feet inbounds along the sideline to make a valid catch, you should also have to get two feet in the endzone, with possession of the football, to score a touchdown. I also think the ground SHOULD be able to cause a fumble, unless you have a knee or elbow down. Just my opinion, but I think it would be better for football if these were the rules.

RuthlessBurgher
09-30-2009, 01:01 PM
NEVER GONNA HAPPEN!! SWEED CAN'T CATCH, PERIOD.

Neither could Plax in 2000...

Neither will Plax in 2009. Unless by "catch" we're talking Swine Flu or something....l

Swine Flu is the least of his worries. I'd be concerned about showering among other Riker's Island inmates who may be infected with a variety of nasty ailments. :shock:

stlrz d
09-30-2009, 01:14 PM
I'm watching NFLN Total Access and I've seen it several times now. I don't remember who pointed it out (mshifko maybe?) that his elbow hitting the ground really is what knocked the ball out.

I'm going to put this part in really big font so it's not missed:

It is his job to hold onto that ball and I really wish he had...but unfortunately he did not.

Now here's another take...I felt this way when I saw it live and nothing has changed my opinion. I think Sweed was a victim of the "if the receiver goes to the ground he must maintain complete control of the ball (the troy rule?) all the way down" rule.

I absolutely *despise* this rule. If you look at the play again you can see that Sweed catches the ball, bobbles it for just a split second, clutches it to his body, takes two steps, goes to the ground and loses the ball when his right elbow hits the ground.

It infuriates me that the above scenario is not a TD even though the receiver had possession of the ball and had both feet down in the EZ. Imo, this should be no different than a player having possession of the ball on the field of play sticking the ball across the goal line without ever crossing that line himself.

Again: It is his job to hold onto that ball and I really wish he had...but unfortunately he did not.

But imo, this "maintain control all the way to the ground" rule is BS.

Differing opinion--I think the receiver SHOULD have to maintain control all the way to the ground. I also DON'T think a player should be able to score a touch down by "sticking the ball across the goal line without crossing the line himself". If you have to get two feet inbounds along the sideline to make a valid catch, you should also have to get two feet in the endzone, with possession of the football, to score a touchdown. I also think the ground SHOULD be able to cause a fumble, unless you have a knee or elbow down. Just my opinion, but I think it would be better for football if these were the rules.

That's fine, but as it is now it's unfair to pass catchers. Unless they catch the ball in the field of play and only stick it across the line or graze the inside of the pylon...then it's a TD.

As for Plex, they said he'll be kept away from the general population. He'll have his own cell, shower separately, etc....

They really wanna make sure he doesn't shoot anyone but himself! :P

Ghost
09-30-2009, 03:12 PM
I might not like the local speed limit but I'm still getting a ticket if I go over. The rule is the rule and it's Sweed's job to understand that and get that ball secured before he hits the ground, leaving no doubt about the six. That ball landed in his hands and should have been cradled against his chest. He should not dress this week!