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birtikidis
09-16-2009, 12:00 AM
inside the huddle. he says "ben added the pump fake" to his arsenal. do they not watch at all? Ben has done that his entire career. he's just been doing it better.

Djfan
09-16-2009, 12:34 AM
Bilick on nfln just called Ben "elite". Maybe the media is waking up.

AngryAsian
09-16-2009, 12:56 AM
I've just finish watching the morons on NFL Live. Dilfer and Hasselbeck comparing Philip Rivers with Tom Brady and how he's the next elite QB, bringing his team back from being down. Absolute moronic observations. I don't understand the man-love being shoved towards Rivers who has done nothing. Mike, Mike and Steve Young were likewise gushing over Rivers during the telecast. I guess I'll just stay in the dark and never be enlightened while I watch my QB Ben win championship after championship. In the meantime they can all suck it.

Djfan
09-16-2009, 01:29 AM
A,

Playing the faiders makes anyone look like a great QB.

Scarletfire1970
09-16-2009, 05:34 AM
Raiders got a good D.

Last time we played them, we lost and Ben had a terrible game. Granted it was the bad accident/concussion/appendectomy year, but still.

Rivers deserves the hype, but Ben does too. And Ben is more like Brady as far as leading his team to victory in the final minutes of a game, than Rivers is. Ben's done it a whole lot more.

Flasteel
09-16-2009, 06:26 AM
Raiders got a good D.

Last time we played them, we lost and Ben had a terrible game. Granted it was the bad accident/concussion/appendectomy year, but still.

Rivers deserves the hype, but Ben does too. And Ben is more like Brady as far as leading his team to victory in the final minutes of a game, than Rivers is. Ben's done it a whole lot more.

You mean Brady is a lot more like Ben as far as leading his team to victory in the final minutes of a game. Afterall, nobody has more come from behind wins in the 4th quarter or overtime than Roethlisberger since he's entered the league. :tt2

proudpittsburgher
09-16-2009, 06:50 AM
I've just finish watching the morons on NFL Live. Dilfer and Hasselbeck comparing Philip Rivers with Tom Brady and how he's the next elite QB, bringing his team back from being down. Absolute moronic observations. I don't understand the man-love being shoved towards Rivers who has done nothing. Mike, Mike and Steve Young were likewise gushing over Rivers during the telecast. I guess I'll just stay in the dark and never be enlightened while I watch my QB Ben win championship after championship. In the meantime they can all suck it.


But angry, don't cha know that Ben only won those titles because of their great defense and running game? :HeadBanger And never mind the fact that before the comeback on Monday, Brady didn't complete a pass more than five friggen yards downfield. That seems very, hmm, game-manager like.

As an aside to your anger, I caught Trent Dilfer on the Cowherd show yesterday. Let it be known, I actually really like him most of the time. Yesterday, he said that after Monday's performance, Brady and the Patriots are on a whole other level as far as QB's and recievers being on the same page, and that the Steelers or anyone else are no where even close. He said this because of the last TD throw to watson, a back-shoulder throw in the end zone. Except for when, well, Ben entends the play and his recievers routinely get open because of it and because they know what Ben is capable of. You know, kind of like the play to Santonio against the Ravens last year where they turned a sack into a 60 yard TD on a back-shoulder throw to get Tone away from the pressure. No, that couldn't possibly be because Ben wanted it that way, it was just a bad throw turned good, huh Trent? And because the great Steelers defense, well, willed him to it.

As was said by another poster, when the Steelers' runnign game struggles against a very good defensive front line, it is the reason the Steelers won't repeat. The Patriots haven't had a runnign game since Curtis Martin, btu they are going to win it every year.:moon

AngryAsian
09-16-2009, 09:04 AM
Statistically, Brady is a FF dream. And with early - mid decade championships he deserves some of the accolades. But what has he done as of late except choke at the biggest stage of them all two years back against the G-men. He's a media darling so all the man-love is slung his way because he's photogenic and bangin' a super model. As for fourth quarter heroics, Ben will push John Elway's legacy aside when it is all said and done. I just can't swallow all the BS because Ben doesn't "win pretty." I don't think Ben could be as effective being a pocket passer. I think his strength is improvisation and he's more efficient when he's extending plays as opposed to when he has all the time in the world.

Once thing for sure, we need to make the NO-HUDDLE the base offensive set. He's "ELITE" when we're marching down the field implementing this scheme.

steelblood
09-16-2009, 09:17 AM
Asian,

I have to say that I don't understand why you are so upset about love for Rivers or Brady. They are both fantastic QBs. They are clutch players if you give them time to throw. Rivers hasn't won a Super Bowl yet, but he may soon. He is a gamer and really turns things on at the end of the season. I really don't think I have to address the Brady thing, but briefly, Brady has been great when he has played the last few years. His team's struggles have been mostly on the defensive side.

We love Ben. No other QB could succeed like he does with this o-line and coordinator. However, there are other great QBs in this league.

fezziwig
09-16-2009, 09:21 AM
Ben doesn't pass the eye test for them in my opinion. He doesn't look like a dove or swann out there to them I guess. Ben is a rough tough guy that makes it look like he could be playing a pick up game of tackle in the neighbors back yard . All this is just my opinion on why they never give him the love.

Probably the real truth is, they're jealous. Ben has the guts, the drive to overcome any issue that comes his way during the game. The dude is king and he started winning without the luxury of cheating, big name offensive players around him. He did this at the start with a more focused running game and he had to show, he could lead through the air. He eaarned his spot and respect with his coaches, team and fans.
Ben contributed to Hines and Santonio being the pro bowlers or help boost their image in my opinion. They are good and had their talent before knowing Ben but, Ben can make a play last long enough for these guys to shake coverage.

I hope we win this years Super Bowl and we can then tell everyone, shut the hell up !

proudpittsburgher
09-16-2009, 09:49 AM
Asian,

I have to say that I don't understand why you are so upset about love for Rivers or Brady. They are both fantastic QBs. They are clutch players if you give them time to throw. Rivers hasn't won a Super Bowl yet, but he may soon. He is a gamer and really turns things on at the end of the season. I really don't think I have to address the Brady thing, but briefly, Brady has been great when he has played the last few years. His team's struggles have been mostly on the defensive side.

We love Ben. No other QB could succeed like he does with this o-line and coordinator. However, there are other great QBs in this league.

I don't want to speak for Asian, but for me, I think a lot of my problem is the overabundance of praise for them, and the criticism Ben constantly recieves from the media. Actually, it's par for the course for the team as a whole, and the hypocricy. The Pats have no running game, yet no no mentions it, and they are seen as preemptive favorites to win the Super Bowl. The Steelers, who won last year's SB without a running game, are seen as faulty because of it. Same problem, two different looks. If Ben did nothing more than throw five yard passes underneath, he would be seen as a game manager. Brady is seen as a genius.
Look, I have no problem calling Brady the best in the game right now, but the media gushes all over them like nobody else, much like they do Indy, but no one mentions the inherant problems with these teams as much as they do with the Steelers.

steeler_fan_in_t.o.
09-16-2009, 10:32 AM
I agree that Brady is deserving of the accolades, but I don't see why Rivers gets the Golden Boy treatment, and I can't see anyone placing him above Ben in any QB ranking.

Some reasons.......

Ben has always had a great D and running game, right? That is why he does not get the elit label - because he has had such an easy path.

Well Rivers has often had a great D (except for last year when Merriman was injured), the greatest RB of the past decade and a top two TE - which certainly helps.

Rivers puts up better stats, right?

Rivers plays his home games in sunny CA. Ben plays his home games in cold and snowy Pittsburgh. Ben plays on a playing field so bad that no kicker has converted from 50 yards away. Ben must play an average of 4 bad weather games more than Rivers per year.

How about the fact that Rivers was considered ready to step right in out of college? He played in a major conference - the ACC. He played the max number of games - 4 years plus bowl games each year, he had the chance to tutor behind an elite QB, then was able to ease into an offense featuring Ladanian Tomlinson. Is there a better possible situation for a QB?

Ben was considered a project coming out. He played only three years in a secondary conference - the MAC. He arrived to sit for a year behind an average QB - but was forced into action in the second regular season of his rookie year. So Ben's education came on the job.

I can go on and on regarding the Ben - Rivers matchup. The point is that there is no easier player to compare him to due to situation and timing. And in almost every category Rivers falls well behind our boy.

steelblood
09-16-2009, 10:56 AM
I agree that Brady is deserving of the accolades, but I don't see why Rivers gets the Golden Boy treatment, and I can't see anyone placing him above Ben in any QB ranking.

Some reasons.......

Ben has always had a great D and running game, right? That is why he does not get the elit label - because he has had such an easy path.

Well Rivers has often had a great D (except for last year when Merriman was injured), the greatest RB of the past decade and a top two TE - which certainly helps.

Rivers puts up better stats, right?

Rivers plays his home games in sunny CA. Ben plays his home games in cold and snowy Pittsburgh. Ben plays on a playing field so bad that no kicker has converted from 50 yards away. Ben must play an average of 4 bad weather games more than Rivers per year.

How about the fact that Rivers was considered ready to step right in out of college? He played in a major conference - the ACC. He played the max number of games - 4 years plus bowl games each year, he had the chance to tutor behind an elite QB, then was able to ease into an offense featuring Ladanian Tomlinson. Is there a better possible situation for a QB?

Ben was considered a project coming out. He played only three years in a secondary conference - the MAC. He arrived to sit for a year behind an average QB - but was forced into action in the second regular season of his rookie year. So Ben's education came on the job.

I can go on and on regarding the Ben - Rivers matchup. The point is that there is no easier player to compare him to due to situation and timing. And in almost every category Rivers falls well behind our boy.

I'm not arguing that Rivers is better than Ben. My point was that he is deserving and there is no reason to disparage that guy. He is a fantastic QB. A great pocket passer.

Still, I'll take issue with a few of your arguments.

1. Arguing that Ben is better because he came from less is pretty weak. Who cares where they came from? Besides the MAC has produced plenty of NFL QBs over the last 10 years. In fact, you may be able to argue that more NFL QBs come from the MAC than the ACC.

2. Saying that Rivers has better stats and then pointing to where Ben plays is more of an excuse for Ben than an argument against Rivers.

3. Both Ben and Rivers have been fortunate to go to good balanced teams. The rest is splitting hairs. But, if you want to get into specifics, we've had the better defense.

I think they are simply different QBs that go about winning in totally different ways. Certainly, Rivers throws a better deep ball than Ben. Certainly, Ben is infinitely more mobile than Rivers. I don't understand why so many desire for the media to consider Ben among the best 2 or 3 QBs. We just won the friggin Super Bowl because of Ben. Who gives two rats dingleberries what some big market sports writer says? Besides, Ben and Rivers are still writing their stories.

JTP53609
09-16-2009, 01:09 PM
inside the huddle. he says "ben added the pump fake" to his arsenal. do they not watch at all? Ben has done that his entire career. he's just been doing it better.

no body bothers to really "watch" the steelers, they are to busy watching tom brady and his delivery in super slow motion, did you see ron jaworski slobbering all over himself every time he put the slow mow on brady....

Shoe
09-16-2009, 02:50 PM
Statistically, Brady is a FF dream. And with early - mid decade championships he deserves some of the accolades. But what has he done as of late except choke at the biggest stage of them all two years back against the G-men. He's a media darling so all the man-love is slung his way because he's photogenic and bangin' a super model. As for fourth quarter heroics, Ben will push John Elway's legacy aside when it is all said and done. I just can't swallow all the BS because Ben doesn't "win pretty." I don't think Ben could be as effective being a pocket passer. I think his strength is improvisation and he's more efficient when he's extending plays as opposed to when he has all the time in the world.

Once thing for sure, we need to make the NO-HUDDLE the base offensive set. He's "ELITE" when we're marching down the field implementing this scheme.

I agree, yet at the same time, I would imagine it very difficult to maintain Ben (in a predominate no-huddle) over 16 games. It's a pretty high-paced way to go, and even though Ben's a young guy, you gotta expect it to wear him down even a little, at the end of the season. That would suck (since Ben would be the focal point of the offense).

Also, it obviously makes him *more often* the target of the defense, and as a result, opens him up to taking a few more shots than he might normally.

But I do agree that our offense runs best right now, in no-huddle. (I think though, it looked particularly goo against the Titans cuz they refused to blitz more. Against the Ravens, such a strategy probably will end up getting Ben hospitalized)

NWNewell
09-16-2009, 02:59 PM
I've just finish watching the morons on NFL Live. Dilfer and Hasselbeck comparing Philip Rivers with Tom Brady and how he's the next elite QB, bringing his team back from being down. Absolute moronic observations. I don't understand the man-love being shoved towards Rivers who has done nothing. Mike, Mike and Steve Young were likewise gushing over Rivers during the telecast. I guess I'll just stay in the dark and never be enlightened while I watch my QB Ben win championship after championship. In the meantime they can all suck it.

Yeah... uh... Rivers did it against the freakin' Raiders. Ben did it against the Titans. Just a slight difference. Who had more yards, a higher completion percentage, and higher QB Rating. Who had no running game support? Oh yeah, and again, who played against the Titans defense and who played the Raiders? Oh, and one more thought... who had to do it TWICE because of an unfortunate fumble by Ward?

Chachi
09-16-2009, 04:45 PM
I can go on and on regarding the Ben - Rivers matchup. The point is that there is no easier player to compare him to due to situation and timing. And in almost every category Rivers falls well behind our boy.

Don't forget, and I think a lot of folks do (especially outside Steelers fans), Ben was a "shotgun" QB. He was almost exclusively playing out of a shotgun formation his entire college career.

I can't remember the number of times I have heard just how difficult for a "shotgun QB" to make it in the NFL. It's a pretty big "negative" for any QB coming out of college according to every "expert" I've ever read/heard.

When was the last time you heard this nugget of info in discussing Ben?

AngryAsian
09-16-2009, 05:44 PM
I've just finish watching the morons on NFL Live. Dilfer and Hasselbeck comparing Philip Rivers with Tom Brady and how he's the next elite QB, bringing his team back from being down. Absolute moronic observations. I don't understand the man-love being shoved towards Rivers who has done nothing. Mike, Mike and Steve Young were likewise gushing over Rivers during the telecast. I guess I'll just stay in the dark and never be enlightened while I watch my QB Ben win championship after championship. In the meantime they can all suck it.

Yeah... uh... Rivers did it against the freakin' Raiders. Ben did it against the Titans. Just a slight difference. Who had more yards, a higher completion percentage, and higher QB Rating. Who had no running game support? Oh yeah, and again, who played against the Titans defense and who played the Raiders? Oh, and one more thought... who had to do it TWICE because of an unfortunate fumble by Ward?


All excellent thoughts that's reverberated throughout The NATION, but its a shame that Ben is not the "SEXY" pick by the man-lovers of ESPN. I guess with the prospect of Brady retiring in the next few years, Rivers is the anointed one to take his place. I guess the gang from ESPN all watch their game tapes decked out in leather at a local biker bar in San Francisco... not that there's anything wrong with that.