PDA

View Full Version : After Max, who stays and who goes



Oviedo
06-24-2009, 04:16 PM
Max Starks did the classy thing with his new contract and signed for less than market value to stay with a great organization and a place he obviously likes. he helped the organization clear cap space and now attention turns to other players.

Max has set a precedent that being part of something special may be more importnat than "breaking the bank."

The question is what do we do with the following? My thoughts:

1. Heath Miller-no brainer that we should keep the most complete TE in the NFL. Doesn't awe with stats but does it all. Resign him as soon as possible.

2. Ryan Clark-underrated high performer but he is getting up in age and he has some youg player like Ryan Mundy who could challenge. Also safeties are easy to get late in Round 1 of the draft. I say let him walk.

3. Brett Kiesel-great team guy and another underrated player who plays hard and is a great fit for our scheme. This could be the most likelky candidate to take a hometown discount because he genuinely seems to like it here and realizes he is in a great situation. However, Ziggy Hood and Rashon Harris may make him unafforadable. Even though he is one of my favorite Steelers I say that he leaves.

4. Willie Colon-young multi-year starter but he is by no means a rock at RT. he is good and may never get better. RT is a position that is not difficult to replace and you have players like Hills, Capizzi and even Urbik who may be able to step in after this season. We have invested alot in the OL with the Starks and Kemo deals so I thin Colon is gone after this season.

5. Jeff Reed-the guy is a nut case but he is our nut case and he has beaten the demons that haunt kickers at Heinz Field. I think that he also realizes that leaving the organization and going to another team it can all come undone really quickly for a kicker. I say he stays as long as he is resonable.

Your thoughts?

MeetJoeGreene
06-24-2009, 04:43 PM
Hard to argue with any of your thoughts.

I really do hope we keep Miller and Skippy.

The only want that I think would be addition by subtraction is Colon....

I have a feeling that Keisel is gone too.

But I have a feeling Clark might stick around for a year or so at a good salary. But I also think he won't be missed if Deshea can cover for a year.

RuthlessBurgher
06-24-2009, 04:44 PM
I wonder if the team may gamble on the fact that if there is no new collective bargaining agreement that Heath Miller and Willie Colon will be restricted free agents next year (instead of unrestricted free agents). If a new CBA is reached, then you can still franchise Miller for a reasonable amount (it was about $4.5 million for a TE this year). I think Colon is likely gone after this year (unless there is no CBA and we can keep him for one more year under an RFA tender). I stated earlier that I thought the team would be able to afford to re-sign one of their two OT's, and Starks is that guy.

I would not be surprised if the first guy they extend after the Starks signing is Jeff Reed. No kicker will break the bank, but I think the front office realizes that he deserves a raise because he is a unique guy that does not allow the conditions at Heinz to get to him. Heinz is a tough place to kick...not everyone can do it well. It chewed up and spit out guys like Kris Brown and Todd Peterson. You can't freeze a psycho, but you can pay him.

I think Ryan Clark takes a hometeam discount. He's played in New York and Washington before, so he realizes that the grass is not greener outside of Pittsburgh since he has been there before. He wants to stay, he works well with Troy...I think that gets done.

Just like with the earlier sentiment about only being able to sign one of those 2 o-lineman, they can probably only afford to sign one of the two d-lineman. They will have to choose whether Keisel or Hampton is more valuable (and affordable) to them. Keisel worked well in a 3 man rotation with Smith and von Oefhoffen...he could do it again with Smith and Hood. Hampton may have fallen out of favor with the coach. However, really big guys like him seem to be able to play forever somehow (think about how long guys like Ted Washington and Sam Adams played).

I've been impressed with Parker's work ethic this off-season, but with guys like Mendenhall, Moore and Summers on the team, he may be the least likely to stay

LasVegasGuy
06-24-2009, 06:34 PM
You can't freeze a psycho, but you can pay him.



That's a classic line when you consider who you are talking about. :lol: :lol: :lol:

Lambert
06-24-2009, 07:22 PM
4. Willie Colon-. he is good

I disagree.

steelcityrules!!
06-24-2009, 10:21 PM
I think letting miller walk would be foolish, he's a perfect match for our system and team chemistry.

love diesel, but think he is expendable unless a discount is deep.

ryan clark is an interesting one. I think we need to keep him around for a year or two, he's a great fit with troy, but is injury prone due to his style of play. heck, troy is as well. we need a stable of competent safeties, and as a big a fan that I am of mundy, none of our safeties are pictures of stable health.

Willie... I just love the attitude and he's supposedly back in rediculous form. I honestly think he'd play for free at this point just to be a part of the rooney organization (maybe not free, but you know what I mean).

buckeyehoppy
06-25-2009, 12:48 AM
Heath and Skippy ARE NOT OPTIONS...both must be re-signed.

Skippy's intangible of being able to handle the conditions at Heinz are too great to ignore.

Heath has been snubbed for a Pro Bowl nod for far too long and he is seriously underrated at his position. He is, at least, as good as Bruener when not on his game...and Bruener was a good, serviceable TE. Heath must remain as a Steeler.

If the recent history of the Steelers holds true, Clark is probably allowed to walk. This will especially be true if Mundy steps up or they have a line on a new FS high in next year's draft.

I think Hood makes Keisel expendable, at this point. Not crazy about 1st Rounders as projects, but the Steelers have a unique luxury here and Hood has tremendous upside in the same respect of Timmons a couple years ago. If Ziggy shows enough in his rookie year, it improves the Steelers options, for sure.

With Starks firmly in the fold, this shifts the prospects for Hills and Capizzi to the RT spot if they want to see any appreciable PT. I would give even money for Hills prospects at RT if his health holds out. He can't possibly be worse than Willie C. at the spot and, I believe, he will be given a chance to see if he can wrest the position for his own with Willie's contract status in limbo.

As usual, the Steelers have their share of uncertainty at some positions. But, as we have all seen before, the team has proven more often than not that they have an uncanny ability to find a workable balance in most of their questionable situations.

MeetJoeGreene
06-25-2009, 07:18 AM
I

I Hampton may have fallen out of favor with the coach. However, really big guys like him seem to be able to play forever somehow (think about how long guys like Ted Washington and Sam Adams played).

I'

I just remember Steed reaching a wall an stopping. I worry that Casey will just give out one of these days, so I would be reluctant to sign him to anything long term or with large guarantees.

Oviedo
06-25-2009, 07:55 AM
I

I Hampton may have fallen out of favor with the coach. However, really big guys like him seem to be able to play forever somehow (think about how long guys like Ted Washington and Sam Adams played).

I'

I just remember Steed reaching a wall an stopping. I worry that Casey will just give out one of these days, so I would be reluctant to sign him to anything long term or with large guarantees.

I agree. Hampton is essentially a two down player now. I just can't see how they justify a $4M+ salary on a two down player. I was hoping they would have gotten his replacement in the past two drafts but as I wrote extensively here, finding NTs for the 3-4 is becoming extremely difficult.

ramblinjim
06-25-2009, 09:45 AM
I may be seeing things a little differently. Our D-Line is getting old and although we drafted Hood in the first round, I'm not sure we have anyone else that is really "waiting in the wings" so to speak. Hampton is getting older, Smith is getting older (and has a sick child) is Eason good enough to step in and be a starter? He's also only about a year younger than Kiesel. Kirschke is getting OLD, Hampton is getting up there, Hoke is only a bit younger than Hampton (he does have less mileage though) and those kids Reffert an Paxson have been able to hang around but haven't done much either.

I'm almost of the opinion that you have to try to sign Kiesel at least to a short deal, especially if he'll play for a discount.

Clark has been a standup player and a very good Pittsburgh Steeler but there are some guys waiting in the wings. Mundy looks like he can play, we know Deshea can play and that kid Roy Lewis may be able to play. Our secondary may have some options if we can't re-sign Clark after this season.

We have to sign Reed. Skippy could play without a helmet. :D Western PA bathroom paper towel dispensers beware!!

FWIW: :2c

RuthlessBurgher
06-25-2009, 10:17 AM
Hampton is getting up there, Hoke is only a bit younger than Hampton (he does have less mileage though)

Hoke is actually older than Hampton. He just turned 33 in April. Hampton is 31. He will be 32 in September.

ramblinjim
06-25-2009, 10:27 AM
Hampton is getting up there, Hoke is only a bit younger than Hampton (he does have less mileage though)

Hoke is actually older than Hampton. He just turned 33 in April. Hampton is 31. He will be 32 in September.


Gotcha...and I forgot to mention Heath. I think it goes without saying that he's the priority.

RussBII
06-25-2009, 12:25 PM
ryan clark is an interesting one. I think we need to keep him around for a year or two, he's a great fit with troy, but is injury prone due to his style of play. heck, troy is as well. we need a stable of competent safeties, and as a big a fan that I am of mundy, none of our safeties are pictures of stable health.

I agree with this. If we can keep Clark for a reasonable or even a touch over reasonable salary, I say we do it. Troy loves playing with him, he's even said that Clark allows him the freedom to do what he does.

RuthlessBurgher
06-26-2009, 04:29 PM
On Sirius NFL Radio's Two Minute Drill Today, they mentioned that the Steelers are deep in discussion with Ryan Clark about a contract extension. I guess that is our first answer for "who's next?" now that we have $3 million or so in additional cap room as a result of the Starks extension.

steelblood
06-26-2009, 06:28 PM
I'm not sure how Rashon Harris helps make Keisel "unaffordable." Rashon is quite likely bound for the practice squad (barring a preseason injury to a DL). Also Rashon is getting paid peanuts.

It is interesting that you didn't include Hampton and Parker in your list.

I'm not a big Parker fan, but the guys behind him haven't proven they can carry the load yet (with the possible exception of Moore).

Hampton is a very interesting subject because as Hoke is getting up there and soon to be a FA, the cupboards are looking bare. I know that there has been some talk of Hood playing some NT. I don't see him putting on weight to play the position when his quickness is his biggest asset. Losing Hampton could be devastating. But, I can't see the Steelers paying him 6 mil per season.

I'd like to keep Clark unless Mundy shows he can handle FS duties.

I totally agree with your comments on Miller and Reed.

I thought Colon played pretty well in the playoffs. He had a few brain-freezes, but he was solid and was often good in pass pro (which shocked the Hell out of me). I'd love to see him turn the corner. But, if he did, he'd probably play himself out of the STeelers price range. If he doesn't, it is time to find a replacement. RTs aren't too tough to find.

Slapstick
06-26-2009, 06:47 PM
I know that there has been some talk of Hood playing some NT. I don't see him putting on weight to play the position when his quickness is his biggest asset.

He won't have to put on too much weight...Casey is 320 (a conservative estimate) because his body can carry that weight...

Hoke, on the other hand, is only 305 lbs...and the Steelers have had no qualms about starting him when Hampton was unavailable...and the D still performed very well...

Jay Ratliff is a Pro Bowl 3-4 NT with the Cowboys at only 302 lbs...

ramblinjim
06-26-2009, 09:54 PM
off the top of my head, Hood may be a little tall to play NT

steeler_fan_in_t.o.
06-27-2009, 10:51 AM
In a nutshell: my top 5 priorities

1) Heath - no brainer

2) Reed - We know what he can do so let's let him do it for 5 more years

3) Clark - Maybe the most underrated Steeler. We don't have to gamble on an unknown, we don't have to spend a first rounder, just plug in the guy who is already a perfect fit on this D at a position that does not command big money. Two year extension.

4) Casey - Yes, he is fat. Yes, he is a two down player. In the DL D many good players only play two downs, but part of the reason he gets that break is because of what he does on those two downs.

5) Keisel - Mr. Steady but unspectacular. He is not a big ticket, he is athletic, and the only realistic replacement is Hood. Also two years at a reasonable sum, letting him know that we have to factor in the fact that he might not start the entire time.

buckeyehoppy
06-27-2009, 11:12 AM
I know that there has been some talk of Hood playing some NT. I don't see him putting on weight to play the position when his quickness is his biggest asset.

He won't have to put on too much weight...Casey is 320 (a conservative estimate) because his body can carry that weight...

Hoke, on the other hand, is only 305 lbs...and the Steelers have had no qualms about starting him when Hampton was unavailable...and the D still performed very well...

Jay Ratliff is a Pro Bowl 3-4 NT with the Cowboys at only 302 lbs...

Two excellent points, Slap. :Cheers

I don't buy this BS that you have to outweigh the guy in front of you to beat him. In fact, in lots of cases, it's as much a liability as an asset because it limits mobility and speed. You can have the technique. But if you aren't quick enough to make the play, what difference would that make?

I think with the proper handling, Hood could be converted to a 3-4 NT. Not that I am necessarily rooting for that because his outside speed would make him a dominant DE in due time. But he seems to have an adequate frame to convert to the inside. I think his pro workouts alone will add 10 pounds to him. If he maintains his speed, more power to him and the Steelers.

RuthlessBurgher
06-27-2009, 02:28 PM
I know that there has been some talk of Hood playing some NT. I don't see him putting on weight to play the position when his quickness is his biggest asset.

He won't have to put on too much weight...Casey is 320 (a conservative estimate) because his body can carry that weight...

Hoke, on the other hand, is only 305 lbs...and the Steelers have had no qualms about starting him when Hampton was unavailable...and the D still performed very well...

Jay Ratliff is a Pro Bowl 3-4 NT with the Cowboys at only 302 lbs...

Hampton is listed at 320, but if you believe most of the weight listings in the NFL, I have some oceanfront property in Kansas you may be interested in. I would say that Hampton's typically playing weight is in the neighborhood of 345, and he likely came to camp last year somewhere around 375 when Tomlin wouldn't allow him to partipate in team activities until his lost some of that weight.

The 3-4 defense the Cowboys play is different than the 3-4 that we play. The 3-4 in Dallas is a one gap scheme in which the d-linemen are trying to penetrate into the backfield and make plays. The small, quicker Ratliff is a better NT in that scheme. The 3-4 we use here is a two gap scheme in which the d-linemen are trying to occupy blockers to allow the linebackers behind them to make plays. The stouter Hampton is a better NT in this scheme.