PDA

View Full Version : Dog trainer says Patron was worth the second chance



stlrz d
06-21-2009, 12:14 AM
http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/09171/97 ... EMAILEDBOX (http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/09171/978608-66.stm?cmpid=MOSTEMAILEDBOX)


Pet Tales: Dog trainer says Patron was worth the second chance
Saturday, June 20, 2009
By Linda Wilson Fuoco, Pittsburgh Post-Gazette
Michael Henninger/Post-Gazette

Patron the pit bull made headlines last month when he attacked the 2-year-old son of Steelers linebacker James Harrison. For the past two weeks Patron, 2, has been living quietly in a West End home with a couple who say "he's just an all-around good dog."

Details about the May 20 attack are sketchy. We do know that the bite sent James Harrison III to the hospital for a week, and the child's mother and a family friend were bitten in the same incident.

Mr. Harrison initially said the dog would be euthanized but then had a change of heart. When no animal shelter, rescue group or boarding kennel would agree to give Patron even temporary safe-haven, he ended up in Sheraden with MK (Mary Kay) Kain and her husband, Ray. Like many observers, they thought Patron deserved a second chance. Now they're sure of it.

"I work with aggressive dogs, and Patron is not aggressive," said Mrs. Kain. "He is a happy dog, willing to oblige you and do whatever you want him to do."

For two weeks, the couple have seen a dog who is quiet, calm, friendly and affectionate. They've seen no signs of aggression toward people or other dogs, including the five big dogs they own. They've seen no signs of nervousness, fear or shyness -- traits that raise a red flag among dog trainers and behavior experts, as fearful and timid dogs may bite to defend themselves.

Mrs. Kain has been studying with trainers and animal behavior specialists since the late 1990s. She became more involved with canine rescue and rehab after she traveled to New Orleans in 2005 to help with dogs left homeless by Hurricane Katrina.

"There was a separate area for aggressive dogs that people were afraid to work with. I worked with them," she said.

Mrs. Kain brought two of them home with her. Red, a chow chow mix, had bitten six people. Tyson, a pit bull, had a history of aggression toward people. Red and Tyson will spend the rest of their lives with the Kains, along with three other "rescue" dogs.

Ray Kain is a Pittsburgh police officer who now works in the traffic division but who used to be a K-9 officer. His dog-partner Conchita was a drug detection dog. Someone in the Steelers front office was familiar with the Kains' dog-handling experience, and that's how Patron ended up with them, with Mr. Harrison's approval.

Mrs. Kain travels around the country as a consultant, evaluating "problem" dogs and helping to place them with rescue groups or with permanent owners. She says she has worked with about 1,000 dogs. She doesn't make money doing this "because rescue groups don't have the money," but they do pay her travel expenses. About 10 dogs have spent time in the house under the Kains' direct care and training.

"Helping dogs is my hobby and my passion," Mrs. Kain said.

I saw what the Kains saw when I met Patron earlier this week. He is a 76-pound, tough-looking dog with an enormous head. There are no scars on his trim, muscular body. His ears are cropped very short. The color of his short fur is reddish-fawn, and his nose is pinkish-red.

But when your eyes meet the amber-colored eyes of Patron, you don't see a tough dog. The look in his eyes is soft and gentle, sad, even.

Patron walked up to me and wagged his skinny tail. He's either naturally polite or has been well-trained, as he didn't jump up. I rubbed his chest and scratched his chin, petted that enormous head and scratched his ears. He wagged his tail, lay down at my feet, and went to sleep while we talked about him and his future.

When we went inside the house, I sat down on a couch in the living room. Patron hopped up on the couch, stretched out and plopped that giant head on my lap. He went to sleep again. He's very low-energy for a young terrier.

Mrs. Kain thinks he might be a pit bull-Cane Corso cross. Also known as Italian mastiffs, Cane Corsos are much bigger but have lower-energy levels than pit bulls. They were bred as all-around working dogs, not for fighting, according to the Web sites of multiple breeders.

When the Kains first brought Patron to their house "we walked him by the other dogs and he didn't even alert" to their presence, Mrs. Kain said. The introduction was made with a sturdy fence between Patron and the others.There have been no problems, and the Kains are confident that Patron would eventually be able to mingle freely with the other dogs.

Mrs. Kain said she took Patron to a professional trainer/behavior specialist "and he passed." That trainer did not return a phone call asking for comment.

Now the Kains are looking for a new home for Patron.

"I'd keep him in a minute, but we really don't have the room. He will not be placed in a home with children or other pets."

Mrs. Kain said that people considering adopting a pit bull or any breed must make sure that their energy level and lifestyle match the breed's needs. The presence of small children, number of walks and frequency of visitors are all issues to consider before adopting a dog.

Patron's picture and adoption information has been put up on at least one rescue Web site but with a fake name.

"We're not interested in people who want to adopt him just because he was James Harrison's dog," Mrs. Kain said.

For more information on Patron, contact her at Mkkain@aol.com.

Linda Wilson Fuoco can be reached at lfuoco@post-gazette.com or 412-263-3064.
First published on June 20, 2009 at 12:00 am

Herewegosteelers!
06-22-2009, 07:14 AM
So if a person injured or killed someone, you can say, let them so, give them a second chance? This country is just animal crazy. The nuts at PITA are the main culprits, but many people are just as crazy. The dog did it once it can do it again and if it does, the new owners should go to jail.

Uncle Rico
06-22-2009, 08:26 AM
So if a person injured or killed someone, you can say, let them so, give them a second chance? This country is just animal crazy. The nuts at PITA are the main culprits, but many people are just as crazy.
You're absolutely right. Michael Vick gets more jail time for dogfighting than Donte Stallworth does for killing a human being. It's really becoming a nutty country.

bostonsteeler
06-22-2009, 08:30 AM
Bro,

You have no way of knowing what happened? Perhaps the child yanked his tail when he was eating, or something similar. No matter how docile the dog, it has its limits, and if aggravated enough, wont think before it acts.
Even dogs need their space/respect and if you invade them bad things can happen. That doesn't necessarily make them bad dogs. Just unfit for a particular family.

ghettoscott
06-22-2009, 09:37 AM
"Patron"..... :roll:

Jooser
06-22-2009, 09:47 AM
So if a person injured or killed someone, you can say, let them so, give them a second chance? This country is just animal crazy. The nuts at PITA are the main culprits, but many people are just as crazy. The dog did it once it can do it again and if it does, the new owners should go to jail.

You mean PETA? (People for the Ethical Treatment of Animals) Just sayin', before stlrs_d roasts you on it. :wink:

I'm glad the dog is doing ok.

frankthetank1
06-22-2009, 03:29 PM
So if a person injured or killed someone, you can say, let them so, give them a second chance? This country is just animal crazy. The nuts at PITA are the main culprits, but many people are just as crazy. The dog did it once it can do it again and if it does, the new owners should go to jail.

your really comparing a person injuring or killing another person to a dog attacking a person? people know right from wrong, an animal is an animal.

aggiebones
06-22-2009, 04:49 PM
"No matter how docile the dog, it has its limits, and if aggravated enough, wont think before it acts."
Don't be so stupid. That ignorance pisses me off.


Yes, a dog eating with a yanked tail may snap or bite, but not hunt to finish off the child which is what this dog was doing. It attacked to kill the child and then turned on those that tried to stop him. They had to throw the child over the fence to get the dog off of it.

That dog as well as most animals in that breed should be eliminated. They add little to the earth. The animal has been breed over time to be aggressive. Period. Maybe erroneously by mankind, but what's done is done.

Jooser
06-22-2009, 04:57 PM
That dog as well as most animals in that breed should be eliminated. They add little to the earth. The animal has been breed over time to be aggressive. Period. Maybe erroneously by mankind, but what's done is done.

I think fire ants should be eliminated as well. Oh, and all spiders too. What else can we eliminate God?

stlrz d
06-22-2009, 06:42 PM
Stupidity is a bad thing folks. Don't be so anxious to show it off. ;)

Snatch98
06-22-2009, 11:20 PM
Stupidity is a bad thing folks. Don't be so anxious to show it off. ;)


No Sh.it. I just finished arguing on another message board about the breed in question. Everyone that takes a firm stance against Pit Bulls 9 times out of 10 know absolutely nothing about the breed and it's history with America. I'd also like to point out that no dog is predisposed to human aggression and its' a nature vs nurture situation. There aren't bad dogs, only bad owners. Period.

feltdizz
06-23-2009, 12:26 AM
whatever... we will hear about Patron in a few years... and then more excuses will be made. Once a pit gets that taste they will strike again..

stlrz d
06-23-2009, 06:27 AM
whatever... we will hear about Patron in a few years... and then more excuses will be made. Once a pit gets that taste they will strike again..

Got something to substantiate that statement?

I'll wait. A...long...time....

frankthetank1
06-23-2009, 10:11 AM
Stupidity is a bad thing folks. Don't be so anxious to show it off. ;)


No Sh.it. I just finished arguing on another message board about the breed in question. Everyone that takes a firm stance against Pit Bulls 9 times out of 10 know absolutely nothing about the breed and it's history with America. I'd also like to point out that no dog is predisposed to human aggression and its' a nature vs nurture situation. There aren't bad dogs, only bad owners. Period.

exactly any dog put in a bad environment will act out. while we are at casting off pits as awful dog's why not throw rotty's and german shepard's in there too. they can be violent in the right environment. i knew a kid that was almost killed by a german shepard. does that mean they are violent dogs that should not be on this earth?

RuthlessBurgher
06-23-2009, 10:33 AM
Ah jeez...not this @#$% again!

http://bleacherreport.com/images_root/image_pictures/0078/7906/aw_jeez_not_this_****_again_feature.jpg

http://www.planetsteelers.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=6758&start=0&st=0&sk=t&sd=a&hilit=silverback

aggiebones
06-23-2009, 11:44 AM
"No Sh.it. I just finished arguing on another message board about the breed in question. Everyone that takes a firm stance against Pit Bulls 9 times out of 10 know absolutely nothing about the breed and it's history with America. I'd also like to point out that no dog is predisposed to human aggression and its' a nature vs nurture situation. There aren't bad dogs, only bad owners. Period."
really? Heard of genetics?

I've been attacked by 2 different Pitbull, once by a Rottweiler and my Mom was attacked by a Doberman. Maybe its bad luck.

One Pit was owned by a friend, who was the nicest guy you could ever meet. After a couple problems, he shot the dog himself.
Don't tell me its just owners. Do you REALLY think some dogs aren't more aggressive than others or have shorter fuses. Do you think all dogs or people for that matter are created the same? Some people also are more aggressive and have shorter fuses. I hate to tell you its not all environmental. Learn a bit about genetics before arguing points for the percent of nice pitbulls. I'm sure its possible to breed down the aggression in the breed, but its not happening. Its going the other way. Noone cares if a poodle is aggressive. But big strong animals living amongst us need to be controlled. If its the 'bad' owners, then the sheer number of them mean that enough owners can't be trusted with the breed and it should be eliminated. And don't pretend that is God-like. Most breeds were created by man. Maybe we can eliminate all, keep 2 nice ones for the next Noah's project.

feltdizz
06-23-2009, 03:53 PM
whatever... we will hear about Patron in a few years... and then more excuses will be made. Once a pit gets that taste they will strike again..

Got something to substantiate that statement?

I'll wait. A...long...time....

yep... Pitbull's and history.. like I said.. maybe it will be a year from now or 2 years.. but that dog will attack again.

Jooser
06-23-2009, 04:03 PM
and 3, 2, 1 ............

stlrz d
06-23-2009, 06:11 PM
whatever... we will hear about Patron in a few years... and then more excuses will be made. Once a pit gets that taste they will strike again..

Got something to substantiate that statement?

I'll wait. A...long...time....

yep... Pitbull's and history.. like I said.. maybe it will be a year from now or 2 years.. but that dog will attack again.

So where's the substantiation? You said, "Once a pit gets that taste they will strike again" so you must have something that shows 100% of all pits who bite do so again, right?

I'm still waiting....

feltdizz
06-24-2009, 05:38 PM
[quote=feltdizz]whatever... we will hear about Patron in a few years... and then more excuses will be made. Once a pit gets that taste they will strike again..

Got something to substantiate that statement?

I'll wait. A...long...time....

yep... Pitbull's and history.. like I said.. maybe it will be a year from now or 2 years.. but that dog will attack again.

So where's the substantiation? You said, "Once a pit gets that taste they will strike again" so you must have something that shows 100% of all pits who bite do so again, right?

I'm still waiting....[/quote:283fmk9c]

dude that is like saying since pedophiles don't repeat at 100% then saying the chances of repeating shouldn't be stated...

sorry but Pits who attack are usually put down....

when I have time to research I will post statistics..

Over 250 United States cities have adopted dog legislation that targets specific breeds due to the unique dangers posed by them. The focal point of this legislation revolves around pit bulls. This is because this class of dogs is the most common and negatively impacts communities the most.

maybe it's the myth though and we are over reacting..

[The pit bulls] ripped it to shreds. What could the child possibly have done to instigate that? I have a daughter who is 18 months old. And the look on the father's face is something I'll never forget, ever.

I shot [the pit bull] right in the chest with a .45, and it didn't even fall over. I was quite surprised.

This dog [pit bull] was trying to kill my daddy. That's all I could think about. I wasn’t going to let no dog take out my daddy.

stlrz d
06-24-2009, 06:13 PM
You said once they get a taste they will strike again.

Unless you find a statistic that proves that 100% of the pit bulls that are given another chance DO strike again then don't bother.

feltdizz
06-24-2009, 10:42 PM
You said once they get a taste they will strike again.

Unless you find a statistic that proves that 100% of the pit bulls that are given another chance DO strike again then don't bother.

LOL!!! I love how it has to be 100% or don't bother.. so if the number is 85% do you win?
Does the 85% who get bit win?

LOL!! Sorry but you can't vouch for all those pits buddy... just your own.

stlrz d
06-24-2009, 11:16 PM
You said once they get a taste they will strike again.

Unless you find a statistic that proves that 100% of the pit bulls that are given another chance DO strike again then don't bother.

LOL!!! I love how it has to be 100% or don't bother.. so if the number is 85% do you win?
Does the 85% who get bit win?

LOL!! Sorry but you can't vouch for all those pits buddy... just your own.

The burden of proof is on you. You are the person who stated that all pits who get a second chance will strike again...yet you have nothing to back that superfluous, blanket statement that you made.

So yes, if the number isn't 100% then you lose...because you're the one who said it's that number.

See, the point I'm trying to make to you is it's foolish to say "all" in an instance such as this. There is no way to substantiate what you insinuated. The number of pits in the world makes it impossible to do so. You threw up your statement in an attempt to denigrate a breed of dog, when that can only be done logically on a case by case basis. One dog at a time. Good luck with that.

And as I mentioned on this topic when it first came up, I don't own any dogs. I was attacked by one (a Great Dane) when I was very young but I'm smart enough to realize it was entirely my fault and that the dog's life shouldn't be taken because of what happened.

feltdizz
06-25-2009, 12:23 AM
Once a pit gets that taste they will strike again..

I said it and I stand by it.. it's my opinion..

you take the 100% to bed with you.. and please.. if we are going on specifics... when did the word ALL or 100% come up in MY post? what is the definition of "that taste?"

see where I'm going with this.. I think this is the second time we have had this debate based on ALL or Never.. relax a little dude.. find a few hobbies.. go fishing..

I'm not smart enough to stop using the words never or all at times on a Steeler board...
so go ahead and be the all and never police if it makes you win an argument...

but damn dude.. you need a job.

RuthlessBurgher
06-25-2009, 12:26 AM
Two things have become painfully obvious as a result of this discussion.

Pro Pit People will not be able to change the minds of Anti Pit People no matter how hard they try.

Anti Pit People will not be able to change the minds of Pro Pit People no matter how hard they try.

Now that this has been established...what do you folks think of that Max Starks extension? :wink: :P

feltdizz
06-25-2009, 12:35 AM
Two things have become painfully obvious as a result of this discussion.

Pro Pit People will not be able to change the minds of Anti Pit People no matter how hard they try.

Anti Pit People will not be able to change the minds of Pro Pit People no matter how hard they try.

Now that this has been established...what do you folks think of that Max Starks extension? :wink: :P

lol... I think it's a great thing.. well a good thing.

RuthlessBurgher
06-25-2009, 12:42 AM
Two things have become painfully obvious as a result of this discussion.

Pro Pit People will not be able to change the minds of Anti Pit People no matter how hard they try.

Anti Pit People will not be able to change the minds of Pro Pit People no matter how hard they try.

Now that this has been established...what do you folks think of that Max Starks extension? :wink: :P

lol... I think it's a great thing.. well a good thing.

Crap...I forgot that the Pro Max Starks People will not be able to change the minds of Anti Max Starks People no matter how hard they try and the Anti Max Starks People will not be able to change the minds of Pro Max Starks People no matter how hard they try.

:lol:

stlrz d
06-25-2009, 06:31 AM
Once a pit gets that taste they will strike again..

I said it and I stand by it.. it's my opinion..

you take the 100% to bed with you.. and please.. if we are going on specifics... when did the word ALL or 100% come up in MY post? what is the definition of "that taste?"

see where I'm going with this.. I think this is the second time we have had this debate based on ALL or Never.. relax a little dude.. find a few hobbies.. go fishing..

I'm not smart enough to stop using the words never or all at times on a Steeler board...
so go ahead and be the all and never police if it makes you win an argument...

but damn dude.. you need a job.

I have a job and I have hobbies...but you're still wrong. :)

Herewegosteelers!
06-25-2009, 10:29 PM
I don't care about dogs......the main thing is that we're all Steeler fans!!! That's all that matters!!! :tt2

Jooser
06-26-2009, 11:18 AM
I love all bulldog breeds.....