Steelers' coach needs to get better

[fordfixer]

Tomlin: Steelers' coach needs to get better

The Associated Press

http://www.philly.com/philly/wires/ap/n ... etter.html (http://www.philly.com/philly/wires/ap/news/state/pennsylvania/20090611_ap_tomlinsteelerscoachneedstogetbetter.ht ml)

PITTSBURGH - Mike Tomlin knows there's one area where the Pittsburgh Steelers can improve: Their coaching.

The Steelers won the Super Bowl during his second season as coach, but Tomlin was as critical of himself as he was his players while making his offseason evaluations. He didn't reveal his self-given grade, but it was far from perfect.

"I better get better," Tomlin said Thursday. "That's the nature of this thing. And getting better doesn't necessarily mean a better outcome; I understand that. I'm always trying to be the best I can be. I'm as critical of myself as I am of anyone. I think that's appropriate from a leadership standpoint.

"Hopefully I'll do a cleaner, more efficient job of that here in '09."

There was little discussion about the Super Bowl as the Steelers went through 18 optional spring practices that ended Thursday. There will be review work with the rookies and less-experienced players next week, but most veteran players won't return until training camp opens July 31.

The Steelers handed out their Super Bowl rings at a private party Tuesday but, otherwise, Tomlin said, "Where we're headed is my focus."

There was little news generated during the optional practices, although Tomlin said:

,Limas Sweed, a second-round pick last year, isn't necessarily the front-runner to replace Nate Washington as the No. 3 receiver. Washington signed with Tennessee.

"We're not going to be a slave to what someone's capable of doing from an assignment standpoint in determining who the No. 3 receiver is," Tomlin said. "We have some flexibility with the other two."

Hines Ward could move into the slot at times when the Steelers use three receivers, so the No. 3 receiver won't necessarily be a split end or a slot receiver.

,Dennis Dixon, the former Oregon quarterback, could push Charlie Batch to be Ben Roethlisberger's backup.

"What he's capable of doing above the neck will ultimately determine that," Tomlin said. "Does he have the ability to be competitive in this game? Absolutely."

[Djfan]

The other 31 had better get ready. We have the new genius in town.

[Oviedo]

Tomlin getting better=bad news for the rest of the NFL.

If anyone now doubts for a second that Tomlin was the right choice to lead this team they either need their head examined or can't get past their own prejudices. This guy has done nothing but produce since he has stepped into the job and I'll guarantee he won't quit on the team in 2009 like the previous coach did in 2006.

Nothing is guaranteed but you just sense that there are more Super Bowl wins in the future. Tomlin does not seem satisfied and that is a good thing for the Steelers Nation.

[ikestops85]

I think the Steeler have themselves one smart janitor :wink:

[Oviedo]

I think the Steeler have themselves one smart janitor :wink:


He may even qualify to be a sanitation engineer. :D

[Mister Pittsburgh]

Man, I thought this was going to be an article about Bruce Arians. :Steel

[phillyesq]

Man, I thought this was going to be an article about Bruce Arians. :Steel

I was thinking Larry Zierlin.

[Steelhere10]

Tomlin getting better=bad news for the rest of the NFL.

If anyone now doubts for a second that Tomlin was the right choice to lead this team they either need their head examined or can't get past their own prejudices. This guy has done nothing but produce since he has stepped into the job and I'll guarantee he won't quit on the team in 2009 like the previous coach did in 2006.

Nothing is guaranteed but you just sense that there are more Super Bowl wins in the future. Tomlin does not seem satisfied and that is a good thing for the Steelers Nation.Those fans don't post much anymore.

[LasVegasGuy]

As long as we have Lebeau, Roethlisberger, Ward, Miller and the rest of the guys from Cowher's regime everything else will fall into place.

Woodley, Timmons, Mendnehall and Sweed are good additions from the new stafff but only one has performed above and beyond and the verdict is still out on the other 3.

It's when Lebeau is gone and the team has a little turnover will we see what we have in Tomlin, so hold your applauds. Things will certainly get interesting when the old man decides to call it quits.

[stlrz d]

As long as we have Lebeau, Roethlisberger, Ward, Miller and the rest of the guys from Cowher's regime everything else will fall into place.

Woodley, Timmons, Mendnehall and Sweed are good additions from the new stafff but only one has performed above and beyond and the verdict is still out on the other 3.

It's when Lebeau is gone and the team has a little turnover will we see what we have in Tomlin, so hold your applauds. Things will certainly get interesting when the old man decides to call it quits.

Yeah, we can't judge any head coach until there's been a complete turnover in roster and coaching staff.

:roll:

[Jooser]

As long as we have Lebeau, Roethlisberger, Ward, Miller and the rest of the guys from Cowher's regime everything else will fall into place.

Woodley, Timmons, Mendnehall and Sweed are good additions from the new stafff but only one has performed above and beyond and the verdict is still out on the other 3.

It's when Lebeau is gone and the team has a little turnover will we see what we have in Tomlin, so hold your applauds. Things will certainly get interesting when the old man decides to call it quits.

Yeah, we can't judge any head coach until there's been a complete turnover in roster and coaching staff.

:roll:

Exactly d. Tomlin has earned his freaking praise, drafts don't make up all that a coach is measured by. Sure, he's dealing with some TALENT that was already in place, but he is still the brains behind the operation. He was smart enough to leave Lebeau in place, case in point. Tomlin has been an excellent field marshall so for.

[RuthlessBurgher]

As long as we have Lebeau, Roethlisberger, Ward, Miller and the rest of the guys from Cowher's regime everything else will fall into place.

Woodley, Timmons, Mendnehall and Sweed are good additions from the new stafff but only one has performed above and beyond and the verdict is still out on the other 3.

It's when Lebeau is gone and the team has a little turnover will we see what we have in Tomlin, so hold your applauds. Things will certainly get interesting when the old man decides to call it quits.

Yeah, we can't judge any head coach until there's been a complete turnover in roster and coaching staff.

:roll:

Yeah...like that Phil Jackson guy. He didn't draft Jordan, Pippen, Shaq, or Kobe. Tex Winter created the triangle offense, Phil didn't. So what if he has 10 championships. Let's see what he does with his own guys. Then we will know what kind of coach he really is. :wink:

[jj28west]

You can label me a Tomlin Lover. Not because we won the Super bowl either. He has emotion (something I did not see the 1st year until the Jaguar playoff game), intelligence, excellent football knowledge, etc.

I look at that debacle going on in Denver (Even though Jay & Brandon are primadonas) and really am impressed how Tomlin worked with Lebeau and his established 3-4 philosophy when he came over from Minnesota.

I get emotional just being a fan and have quick knee jerk reactions when it comes to evaluating a play, player, game. He has the coolness that you need in crunchtime and exhibits a trust and straight shooter type of character.
The only negative I can think of is keeping BA who survives another year. Damn, The Lions did not even want him...

[LasVegasGuy]

As long as we have Lebeau, Roethlisberger, Ward, Miller and the rest of the guys from Cowher's regime everything else will fall into place.

Woodley, Timmons, Mendnehall and Sweed are good additions from the new stafff but only one has performed above and beyond and the verdict is still out on the other 3.

It's when Lebeau is gone and the team has a little turnover will we see what we have in Tomlin, so hold your applauds. Things will certainly get interesting when the old man decides to call it quits.

Yeah, we can't judge any head coach until there's been a complete turnover in roster and coaching staff.

:roll:

Finally someone gets it. :roll:

It certainly makes the job easier when you are given the right tools to do it. It wasn't like he inherited the Lions and took them to the Super Bowl in 2 years. Now that would have been a coaching miracle.

[LasVegasGuy]

As long as we have Lebeau, Roethlisberger, Ward, Miller and the rest of the guys from Cowher's regime everything else will fall into place.

Woodley, Timmons, Mendnehall and Sweed are good additions from the new stafff but only one has performed above and beyond and the verdict is still out on the other 3.

It's when Lebeau is gone and the team has a little turnover will we see what we have in Tomlin, so hold your applauds. Things will certainly get interesting when the old man decides to call it quits.

Yeah, we can't judge any head coach until there's been a complete turnover in roster and coaching staff.

:roll:

Yeah...like that Phil Jackson guy. He didn't draft Jordan, Pippen, Shaq, or Kobe. Tex Winter created the triangle offense, Phil didn't. So what if he has 10 championships. Let's see what he does with his own guys. Then we will know what kind of coach he really is. :wink:

Good example of the 10 Championships how many didn't include M.J. or Kobe?
Probably the 2 best players to ever play the game and Jackson didn't draft either.
I think it is safe to say these two guys would have been successful with or without "Big Chief Triangle."

[Jigawatts]

As long as we have Lebeau, Roethlisberger, Ward, Miller and the rest of the guys from Cowher's regime everything else will fall into place.

Woodley, Timmons, Mendnehall and Sweed are good additions from the new stafff but only one has performed above and beyond and the verdict is still out on the other 3.

It's when Lebeau is gone and the team has a little turnover will we see what we have in Tomlin, so hold your applauds. Things will certainly get interesting when the old man decides to call it quits.

Yeah, we can't judge any head coach until there's been a complete turnover in roster and coaching staff.

:roll:

Finally someone gets it. :roll:

It certainly makes the job easier when you are given the right tools to do it. It wasn't like he inherited the Lions and took them to the Super Bowl in 2 years. Now that would have been a coaching miracle.

I agree with that, but it's not like the team tanked after he took the reigns. He made
the playoffs one year and won the Super Bowl the next. What else can you ask for in
two years?

I'm not going to look up any examples, but I'm sure there have been plenty of coaches
that have taken over talented teams and just drove the team into the ground.

[steelcityrules!!]

As long as we have Lebeau, Roethlisberger, Ward, Miller and the rest of the guys from Cowher's regime everything else will fall into place.

Woodley, Timmons, Mendnehall and Sweed are good additions from the new stafff but only one has performed above and beyond and the verdict is still out on the other 3.

It's when Lebeau is gone and the team has a little turnover will we see what we have in Tomlin, so hold your applauds. Things will certainly get interesting when the old man decides to call it quits.

Yeah, we can't judge any head coach until there's been a complete turnover in roster and coaching staff.

:roll:

Finally someone gets it. :roll:

It certainly makes the job easier when you are given the right tools to do it. It wasn't like he inherited the Lions and took them to the Super Bowl in 2 years. Now that would have been a coaching miracle.

I don't think anyone is saying that Tomlin is performing miracles, what they are saying is that the ownership and front office are shrewd, intelligent, and calculating in their appraisal of head coaching talent. (or thats how I'm reading it anyways)

Tomlin wasn't handed a bloated collection of primadonna's like the jerry jones and dan snyders routinely dish out to the next guy in line, he took over a team of talent who was suffering from a surprisingly new void of intensity and determination from their stalwart head coach. After cowher parted ways, coach tomlin was an intriguing but risky pick who is paying off huge dividends and is bringing in not only great new talent, but has the vets motivated and completely buying into his system.

I am officially stoked that he's at the helm.
:Cheers

[stlrz d]

As long as we have Lebeau, Roethlisberger, Ward, Miller and the rest of the guys from Cowher's regime everything else will fall into place.

Woodley, Timmons, Mendnehall and Sweed are good additions from the new stafff but only one has performed above and beyond and the verdict is still out on the other 3.

It's when Lebeau is gone and the team has a little turnover will we see what we have in Tomlin, so hold your applauds. Things will certainly get interesting when the old man decides to call it quits.

Yeah, we can't judge any head coach until there's been a complete turnover in roster and coaching staff.

:roll:

Yeah...like that Phil Jackson guy. He didn't draft Jordan, Pippen, Shaq, or Kobe. Tex Winter created the triangle offense, Phil didn't. So what if he has 10 championships. Let's see what he does with his own guys. Then we will know what kind of coach he really is. :wink:

Good example of the 10 Championships how many didn't include M.J. or Kobe?
Probably the 2 best players to ever play the game and Jackson didn't draft either.
I think it is safe to say these two guys would have been successful with or without "Big Chief Triangle."

Jordan was drafted by the Bulls in '84. Jackson took over as coach in '89. The Bulls won their first championship under Jackson (and first overall) in '91.

Kobe was drafted by the Charlotte Hornets in '96 and traded to the Lakers on draft day. Jackson took over as coach in '99. The Lakers won their first championship under Jackson in 2000. Then they won again in 2001 and 2002. Jackson left after '04 but came back in 2005. The Lakers won again under Jackson in 2009.

Here's what Stan Van Gundy had to say about him:

"The guy has won 51 playoff series now," Orlando's coach said after the Lakers closed out the Finals, 99-86. "Check your record book and see how many coaches have even won 50 playoff games. It's fewer than 20, and the guy has won 51 playoff series. It's incomprehensible. You look at the guy's record and it's undeniable."

Plenty of coaches in all sports have talent...but not everyone can coach that talent.

I loved Cowher for his intensity but he probably did less with more talent than any NFL coach I can think of. It's pretty clear that when it comes to coaching, Tomlin has something that Cowher just didn't.

[steelcityrules!!]

[quote=LasVegasGuy]As long as we have Lebeau, Roethlisberger, Ward, Miller and the rest of the guys from Cowher's regime everything else will fall into place.

Woodley, Timmons, Mendnehall and Sweed are good additions from the new stafff but only one has performed above and beyond and the verdict is still out on the other 3.

It's when Lebeau is gone and the team has a little turnover will we see what we have in Tomlin, so hold your applauds. Things will certainly get interesting when the old man decides to call it quits.

Yeah, we can't judge any head coach until there's been a complete turnover in roster and coaching staff.

:roll:

Yeah...like that Phil Jackson guy. He didn't draft Jordan, Pippen, Shaq, or Kobe. Tex Winter created the triangle offense, Phil didn't. So what if he has 10 championships. Let's see what he does with his own guys. Then we will know what kind of coach he really is. :wink:

Good example of the 10 Championships how many didn't include M.J. or Kobe?
Probably the 2 best players to ever play the game and Jackson didn't draft either.
I think it is safe to say these two guys would have been successful with or without "Big Chief Triangle."

Jordan was drafted by the Bulls in '84. Jackson took over as coach in '89. The Bulls won their first championship under Jackson (and first overall) in '91.

Kobe was drafted by the Charlotte Hornets in '96 and traded to the Lakers on draft day. Jackson took over as coach in '99. The Lakers won their first championship under Jackson in 2000. Then they won again in 2001 and 2002. Jackson left after '04 but came back in 2005. The Lakers won again under Jackson in 2009.

Here's what Stan Van Gundy had to say about him:

"The guy has won 51 playoff series now," Orlando's coach said after the Lakers closed out the Finals, 99-86. "Check your record book and see how many coaches have even won 50 playoff games. It's fewer than 20, and the guy has won 51 playoff series. It's incomprehensible. You look at the guy's record and it's undeniable."

Plenty of coaches in all sports have talent...but not everyone can coach that talent.

I loved Cowher for his intensity but he probably did less with more talent than any NFL coach I can think of. It's pretty clear that when it comes to coaching, Tomlin has something that Cowher just didn't.[/quote:fizmlzy0]

pretty convincing data if you ask me, at least the phil jackson numbers.
great points D.

[RuthlessBurgher]

As long as we have Lebeau, Roethlisberger, Ward, Miller and the rest of the guys from Cowher's regime everything else will fall into place.

Woodley, Timmons, Mendnehall and Sweed are good additions from the new stafff but only one has performed above and beyond and the verdict is still out on the other 3.

It's when Lebeau is gone and the team has a little turnover will we see what we have in Tomlin, so hold your applauds. Things will certainly get interesting when the old man decides to call it quits.

Yeah, we can't judge any head coach until there's been a complete turnover in roster and coaching staff.

:roll:

Yeah...like that Phil Jackson guy. He didn't draft Jordan, Pippen, Shaq, or Kobe. Tex Winter created the triangle offense, Phil didn't. So what if he has 10 championships. Let's see what he does with his own guys. Then we will know what kind of coach he really is. :wink:

Good example of the 10 Championships how many didn't include M.J. or Kobe?
Probably the 2 best players to ever play the game and Jackson didn't draft either.
I think it is safe to say these two guys would have been successful with or without "Big Chief Triangle."

Remind me how many titles Michael and Scottie won when Doug Collins won was their coach? Or how many titles Shaq and Kobe won when Del Harris was their coach?

And before you go into a rant about how much Collins and Harris suck, both have winning records as coaches during their NBA coaching careers (Collins was 332-287 in 8 seasons, which is a .536 winning percentage and Harris was 556-457 in 14 seasons, which is a .549 winning percentage).

[Oviedo]

As long as we have Lebeau, Roethlisberger, Ward, Miller and the rest of the guys from Cowher's regime everything else will fall into place.

Woodley, Timmons, Mendnehall and Sweed are good additions from the new stafff but only one has performed above and beyond and the verdict is still out on the other 3.

It's when Lebeau is gone and the team has a little turnover will we see what we have in Tomlin, so hold your applauds. Things will certainly get interesting when the old man decides to call it quits.

Yeah, we can't judge any head coach until there's been a complete turnover in roster and coaching staff.

:roll:

Exactly d. Tomlin has earned his freaking praise, drafts don't make up all that a coach is measured by. Sure, he's dealing with some TALENT that was already in place, but he is still the brains behind the operation. He was smart enough to leave Lebeau in place, case in point. Tomlin has been an excellent field marshall so for.

Obviously some feel a coach has to completely blow up a roster and only then can he be given any credit. :? One of the keys to being a good coach is knowing who to keep and who to get rid of.

Our previous coach (the Hurricanes' fan) couldn't seem to make the play offs in his last year with much of the same talent (in some people's minds much more) and coaches.

[steelsnis]

Obviously some feel a coach has to completely blow up a roster and only then can he be given any credit.

Nah, the only ones who feel that way are the guys who didn't want the coach here in the first place. It's pretty sad that there are some that still won't give the guy his due even after winning a Super Bowl. Remember, before last season, it was "let's see how he does after this BRUTAL schedule. He'll be lucky to go 8-8..."

Ummm, Super Bowl Champions!!!

To quote Will Hunting: How do you like 'DEM apples?!

[Oviedo]

Obviously some feel a coach has to completely blow up a roster and only then can he be given any credit.

Nah, the only ones who feel that way are the guys who didn't want the coach here in the first place. It's pretty sad that there are some that still won't give the guy his due even after winning a Super Bowl. Remember, before last season, it was "let's see how he does after this BRUTAL schedule. He'll be lucky to go 8-8..."

Ummm, Super Bowl Champions!!!

To quote Will Hunting: How do you like 'DEM apples?!

Well said :Clap :Clap :Clap

With every accomplishment a small group always wants to add another step Tomlin has to climb before he gets their approval.

We are fortunate to have him as a coach. I can't think of another in the league who is a better fit.

[RuthlessBurgher]

Obviously some feel a coach has to completely blow up a roster and only then can he be given any credit.

Nah, the only ones who feel that way are the guys who didn't want the coach here in the first place. It's pretty sad that there are some that still won't give the guy his due even after winning a Super Bowl. Remember, before last season, it was "let's see how he does after this BRUTAL schedule. He'll be lucky to go 8-8..."

Ummm, Super Bowl Champions!!!

To quote Will Hunting: How do you like 'DEM apples?!

Applesauce, bee-yotch!!!

http://content8.flixster.com/question/52/18/25/5218258_std.jpg

Gotta love "Good Willing Hunting 2: Hunting Season" :lol:

[LasVegasGuy]

Anybody want to say that Whiz couldn't have done the same thing in Pittsburgh?
Heck, he inherited a team with a lot less talent, was able to make it to the Super Bowl in 2 years and was seconds away from beating the mighty Tomlin led Steelers. Nuff said!

Tomlin was given keys to the bus and told to drive it straight. It won't be until we put some miles on the bus with him as the operator to understand what we really have in a head coach.

Even Barry Switzer took the talented Jimmy Johnson Cowboys to the Super Bowl. Oh yea! Even Jon Gruden took the Dungy Bucs' to the Super Bowl and who can forget Callahan's Raiders?

But I ask where are they now?

[ikestops85]

I don't know why some feel that by giving credit to Tomlin you take it away from Cowher. First of all, I don't care how much talent you have on a team you still need a good coach to pull it all together. Okay, Barry Switzer might be the exception to that rule. Tomlin had to come into the Burgh, take over a veteran team and earn their respect. That in itself is not an easy job in this day and age of the pampered multi-millionaire athletes. To a man I think the players will tell you Tomlin has done that. When he first took over the job he had something (I can't remember what it was actually called) like an accountablility board where he would post mistakes made by the players. In essence calling them out. What surprised the players was one of the first names on the board was his --- proving to them that he was no different than they were from an accountability standpoint. To me the guy has done a great job of coaching the players he has. I find it funny that some say they aren't "HIS" players. They most certainly are ... just ask the players. It's also funny that some think Wood, Timmons, Mendy, etc. are his players. I got news for you. Colbert made those selections with input from the coaching staff. There is no way that Tomlin has the same voice in the draft that Cowher did at the end of his coaching career with the Steelers. The bottom line is Tomlin came in here and kept the Steelers winning tradition alive ... and he himself says he needs to get better. What more could you want in a coach.

Now for Cowher -- I gotta disagree with Stlrz D. I think Cowher was the best motivational coach since Lombardi. I think many Steeler fans far overestimate the talent on many of those Cowher teams and it can be proven by the overall lack of success players had once they left the steelers. I believe Chad Brown would have been a Hall of Fame candidate if he had stayed with the steelers. He left and was good but not great. Willie William, was nothing when he came to the Steelers then played great for the Steelers, got the big contract and was never played at that level again. Cowher took those teams further than any coach in that era could have but his weakness was his conservative nature when going against teams that had a lot more talent than his team had.

All in all I think the Steelers have been damn good in picking their last 3 coaches.

[Oviedo]

Anybody want to say that Whiz couldn't have done the same thing in Pittsburgh?
Heck, he inherited a team with a lot less talent, was able to make it to the Super Bowl in 2 years and was seconds away from beating the mighty Tomlin led Steelers. Nuff said!

Tomlin was given keys to the bus and told to drive it straight. It won't be until we put some miles on the bus with him as the operator to understand what we really have in a head coach.

Even Barry Switzer took the talented Jimmy Johnson Cowboys to the Super Bowl. Oh yea! Even Jon Gruden took the Dungy Bucs' to the Super Bowl and who can forget Callahan's Raiders?

But I ask where are they now?

Can't judge what he did with Arizona because he inherited the best players on his team from the previous coach. We'll see how good a coach he is once they are all gone. Let's see what he does with his draft picks which have thus far not proven to be the difference makers on that team.

You can't have it both ways.

[MeetJoeGreene]

Obviously some feel a coach has to completely blow up a roster and only then can he be given any credit.

Nah, the only ones who feel that way are the guys who didn't want the coach here in the first place. It's pretty sad that there are some that still won't give the guy his due even after winning a Super Bowl. Remember, before last season, it was "let's see how he does after this BRUTAL schedule. He'll be lucky to go 8-8..."

Ummm, Super Bowl Champions!!!

To quote Will Hunting: How do you like 'DEM apples?!

I almost wish the TribLive site was still alive. I would be really interested in some of the reactions to those that were most vehemently opposed to Tomlin's hiring.... like zayets, etc.

[RuthlessBurgher]

Anybody want to say that Whiz couldn't have done the same thing in Pittsburgh?
Heck, he inherited a team with a lot less talent, was able to make it to the Super Bowl in 2 years and was seconds away from beating the mighty Tomlin led Steelers. Nuff said!

Tomlin was given keys to the bus and told to drive it straight. It won't be until we put some miles on the bus with him as the operator to understand what we really have in a head coach.

Even Barry Switzer took the talented Jimmy Johnson Cowboys to the Super Bowl. Oh yea! Even Jon Gruden took the Dungy Bucs' to the Super Bowl and who can forget Callahan's Raiders?

But I ask where are they now?

Whis voluntarily took himself out of the equation when he withdrew his name from the running for the Steeler head coaching job by taking the Cardinals job while the Rooney were still in the process of interviewing candidates.

The question is would Russ Grimm have been able to lead the Steelers to a Super Bowl victory in his second season as head coach. People tend to forget that the Rooneys chose Tomlin over Grimm, not Tomlin over Whisenhunt. I, for one, say no...Russ Grimm would not have been able to lead this team to a Super Bowl victory, facing the schedule that we faced last year. The Steelers made the correct choice to replace Cowher.

[aggiebones]

I hate to tell you this but without the Steelers scouting department Noll wasn't going to win a fecking thing either. Noll didn't hand pick his players outside of maybe begging for a couple guys in early rounds.
Organizations win for many reasons. The Steelers win cause they hire good intelligent people in every position they can. We don't collect super star players mostly cause we pick late in the draft. If a guy's britches get to big, he's gone. EVERY player and coach in the organization wins with the Steelers because they all share a piece of the burden. Yes, some more than others, but even those appearing to carry more, MAY be due to the system.
Lebeau is a great coach and has been able to put a good defense on the field because there is great understanding between him and the scouting department. Lebeau doesn't walk in on draft day and point at 5 guys that he demands. Certain guys fit and the scouts know what he needs. He is a good communicator as are most in the organization.
How many Super Bowls has Lebeau won outside of Pittsburgh?
Is Harrison a top 5 LB in the league or does Lebeau make great calls and put him in perfect position. Is Farrior doing soo much work that Harrison only has to do the cleanup? Who brought Farrior to Pittsburgh? Lebeau? Who cut Harrison (besides Cleveland :))?
What happened to the team the day Aaron Smith got hurt? Team fell apart in the playoffs.
Tomlin does a great job. Are his opening day responsibilities the same now as they will be in 3-5 years? No, he's learning, while also manning up in his job.
When Arizona had the ball in Super Bowl 43 with less than 2 minutes and we only needed ONE stop to be called Champs again, was it Lebeau's fault or Tomlin's that Arizona scored from far out. Who bailed us out? Lebeau, Tomlin, Harrison or Ben? Or maybe the guy most people prefer to get rid of (including me at times), Ariens? Maybe he had the calls correct. Maybe just maybe it was the whole organization from the scouts finding these players, to the defensive coaches for holding Arizona for so long, to the offensive coaches and players for making the big time plays and calls when they had to.

As for Whiz, he had the best offensive WR and WR unit and QB possibly in the league. His defense was deep and talented as well. He was involved in getting none of it. He stepped into a great situation in Arizona and he got close. But his organization failed. Was it him or the organization as a whole. Or maybe sometimes things just don't go your way in sports.

[MeetJoeGreene]

Anybody want to say that Whiz couldn't have done the same thing in Pittsburgh?
Heck, he inherited a team with a lot less talent, was able to make it to the Super Bowl in 2 years and was seconds away from beating the mighty Tomlin led Steelers. Nuff said!

Tomlin was given keys to the bus and told to drive it straight. It won't be until we put some miles on the bus with him as the operator to understand what we really have in a head coach.

Even Barry Switzer took the talented Jimmy Johnson Cowboys to the Super Bowl. Oh yea! Even Jon Gruden took the Dungy Bucs' to the Super Bowl and who can forget Callahan's Raiders?

But I ask where are they now?

There it is. Moving the goal posts again. For some folks, whatever Tomlin accomplished will not suffice but will be constantly diminished with the "yeah but so-and-so could have done it too..." or "we haven't seen enough of him yet..."

What will suffice until you stop the anti-Tomlin jihad? One more Super Bowl? Two more? 10 seasons without a losing one (even though almost every coach/team has a down year). I can imagine 5 years from now, we have one 1 or 2 more Super Bowls, and have a 7-9 season.... Your response would be??? Let me postulate: "AHA!! SEE I TOLD YOU ALL THAT TOMLIN SUCKS!! WHIZE WOULD HAVE HAD 5 SUPER BOWLS AND A 12-4 RECORD THIS YEAR."

[Oviedo]

Anybody want to say that Whiz couldn't have done the same thing in Pittsburgh?
Heck, he inherited a team with a lot less talent, was able to make it to the Super Bowl in 2 years and was seconds away from beating the mighty Tomlin led Steelers. Nuff said!

Tomlin was given keys to the bus and told to drive it straight. It won't be until we put some miles on the bus with him as the operator to understand what we really have in a head coach.

Even Barry Switzer took the talented Jimmy Johnson Cowboys to the Super Bowl. Oh yea! Even Jon Gruden took the Dungy Bucs' to the Super Bowl and who can forget Callahan's Raiders?

But I ask where are they now?

Whis voluntarily took himself out of the equation when he withdrew his name from the running for the Steeler head coaching job by taking the Cardinals job while the Rooney were still in the process of interviewing candidates.

The question is would Russ Grimm have been able to lead the Steelers to a Super Bowl victory in his second season as head coach. People tend to forget that the Rooneys chose Tomlin over Grimm, not Tomlin over Whisenhunt. I, for one, say no...Russ Grimm would not have been able to lead this team to a Super Bowl victory, facing the schedule that we faced last year. The Steelers made the correct choice to replace Cowher.

This year we get to see if Grimm can be an offensive coordinator let alone a head coach. He may be the most interviewed coach in the NFL for head coach jobs and he gets rejected every time. Obviously the professionals running teams see something or more appropriately don't see something.

[RuthlessBurgher]

Who cut Harrison (besides Cleveland :))?

Actually, it was Baltimore, not Cleveland.

:ratsuck :brownssuck

[ikestops85]

I hate to tell you this but without the Steelers scouting department Noll wasn't going to win a fecking thing either. Noll didn't hand pick his players outside of maybe begging for a couple guys in early rounds.
Organizations win for many reasons. The Steelers win cause they hire good intelligent people in every position they can. We don't collect super star players mostly cause we pick late in the draft. If a guy's britches get to big, he's gone. EVERY player and coach in the organization wins with the Steelers because they all share a piece of the burden. Yes, some more than others, but even those appearing to carry more, MAY be due to the system.
Lebeau is a great coach and has been able to put a good defense on the field because there is great understanding between him and the scouting department. Lebeau doesn't walk in on draft day and point at 5 guys that he demands. Certain guys fit and the scouts know what he needs. He is a good communicator as are most in the organization.
How many Super Bowls has Lebeau won outside of Pittsburgh?
Is Harrison a top 5 LB in the league or does Lebeau make great calls and put him in perfect position. Is Farrior doing soo much work that Harrison only has to do the cleanup? Who brought Farrior to Pittsburgh? Lebeau? Who cut Harrison (besides Cleveland :))?
What happened to the team the day Aaron Smith got hurt? Team fell apart in the playoffs.
Tomlin does a great job. Are his opening day responsibilities the same now as they will be in 3-5 years? No, he's learning, while also manning up in his job.
When Arizona had the ball in Super Bowl 43 with less than 2 minutes and we only needed ONE stop to be called Champs again, was it Lebeau's fault or Tomlin's that Arizona scored from far out. Who bailed us out? Lebeau, Tomlin, Harrison or Ben? Or maybe the guy most people prefer to get rid of (including me at times), Ariens? Maybe he had the calls correct. Maybe just maybe it was the whole organization from the scouts finding these players, to the defensive coaches for holding Arizona for so long, to the offensive coaches and players for making the big time plays and calls when they had to.

As for Whiz, he had the best offensive WR and WR unit and QB possibly in the league. His defense was deep and talented as well. He was involved in getting none of it. He stepped into a great situation in Arizona and he got close. But his organization failed. Was it him or the organization as a whole. Or maybe sometimes things just don't go your way in sports.

bravo sir, bravo :Clap :Clap Well said

[Oviedo]

I hate to tell you this but without the Steelers scouting department Noll wasn't going to win a fecking thing either. Noll didn't hand pick his players outside of maybe begging for a couple guys in early rounds.
Organizations win for many reasons. The Steelers win cause they hire good intelligent people in every position they can. We don't collect super star players mostly cause we pick late in the draft. If a guy's britches get to big, he's gone. EVERY player and coach in the organization wins with the Steelers because they all share a piece of the burden. Yes, some more than others, but even those appearing to carry more, MAY be due to the system.
Lebeau is a great coach and has been able to put a good defense on the field because there is great understanding between him and the scouting department. Lebeau doesn't walk in on draft day and point at 5 guys that he demands. Certain guys fit and the scouts know what he needs. He is a good communicator as are most in the organization.
How many Super Bowls has Lebeau won outside of Pittsburgh?
Is Harrison a top 5 LB in the league or does Lebeau make great calls and put him in perfect position. Is Farrior doing soo much work that Harrison only has to do the cleanup? Who brought Farrior to Pittsburgh? Lebeau? Who cut Harrison (besides Cleveland :))?
What happened to the team the day Aaron Smith got hurt? Team fell apart in the playoffs.
Tomlin does a great job. Are his opening day responsibilities the same now as they will be in 3-5 years? No, he's learning, while also manning up in his job.
When Arizona had the ball in Super Bowl 43 with less than 2 minutes and we only needed ONE stop to be called Champs again, was it Lebeau's fault or Tomlin's that Arizona scored from far out. Who bailed us out? Lebeau, Tomlin, Harrison or Ben? Or maybe the guy most people prefer to get rid of (including me at times), Ariens? Maybe he had the calls correct. Maybe just maybe it was the whole organization from the scouts finding these players, to the defensive coaches for holding Arizona for so long, to the offensive coaches and players for making the big time plays and calls when they had to.

As for Whiz, he had the best offensive WR and WR unit and QB possibly in the league. His defense was deep and talented as well. He was involved in getting none of it. He stepped into a great situation in Arizona and he got close. But his organization failed. Was it him or the organization as a whole. Or maybe sometimes things just don't go your way in sports.

bravo sir, bravo :Clap :Clap Well said

:Clap :Clap :Clap :Clap Totally great post.

[MaxAMillion]

I hate to tell you this but without the Steelers scouting department Noll wasn't going to win a fecking thing either. Noll didn't hand pick his players outside of maybe begging for a couple guys in early rounds.
Organizations win for many reasons. The Steelers win cause they hire good intelligent people in every position they can. We don't collect super star players mostly cause we pick late in the draft. If a guy's britches get to big, he's gone. EVERY player and coach in the organization wins with the Steelers because they all share a piece of the burden. Yes, some more than others, but even those appearing to carry more, MAY be due to the system.
Lebeau is a great coach and has been able to put a good defense on the field because there is great understanding between him and the scouting department. Lebeau doesn't walk in on draft day and point at 5 guys that he demands. Certain guys fit and the scouts know what he needs. He is a good communicator as are most in the organization.
How many Super Bowls has Lebeau won outside of Pittsburgh?
Is Harrison a top 5 LB in the league or does Lebeau make great calls and put him in perfect position. Is Farrior doing soo much work that Harrison only has to do the cleanup? Who brought Farrior to Pittsburgh? Lebeau? Who cut Harrison (besides Cleveland :))?
What happened to the team the day Aaron Smith got hurt? Team fell apart in the playoffs.
Tomlin does a great job. Are his opening day responsibilities the same now as they will be in 3-5 years? No, he's learning, while also manning up in his job.
When Arizona had the ball in Super Bowl 43 with less than 2 minutes and we only needed ONE stop to be called Champs again, was it Lebeau's fault or Tomlin's that Arizona scored from far out. Who bailed us out? Lebeau, Tomlin, Harrison or Ben? Or maybe the guy most people prefer to get rid of (including me at times), Ariens? Maybe he had the calls correct. Maybe just maybe it was the whole organization from the scouts finding these players, to the defensive coaches for holding Arizona for so long, to the offensive coaches and players for making the big time plays and calls when they had to.

As for Whiz, he had the best offensive WR and WR unit and QB possibly in the league. His defense was deep and talented as well. He was involved in getting none of it. He stepped into a great situation in Arizona and he got close. But his organization failed. Was it him or the organization as a whole. Or maybe sometimes things just don't go your way in sports.

Great post, funny how Whiz's name was not brought up when his team quit playing for several weeks (including the humiliating loss to NE). I think those performances say something about Whiz's coaching ability over the course of an entire season.

I can only imagine what the reaction would be if Tomlin's Steelers literally did not show up for a game.

[stlrz d]

I don't know why some feel that by giving credit to Tomlin you take it away from Cowher. First of all, I don't care how much talent you have on a team you still need a good coach to pull it all together. Okay, Barry Switzer might be the exception to that rule. Tomlin had to come into the Burgh, take over a veteran team and earn their respect. That in itself is not an easy job in this day and age of the pampered multi-millionaire athletes. To a man I think the players will tell you Tomlin has done that. When he first took over the job he had something (I can't remember what it was actually called) like an accountablility board where he would post mistakes made by the players. In essence calling them out. What surprised the players was one of the first names on the board was his --- proving to them that he was no different than they were from an accountability standpoint. To me the guy has done a great job of coaching the players he has. I find it funny that some say they aren't "HIS" players. They most certainly are ... just ask the players. It's also funny that some think Wood, Timmons, Mendy, etc. are his players. I got news for you. Colbert made those selections with input from the coaching staff. There is no way that Tomlin has the same voice in the draft that Cowher did at the end of his coaching career with the Steelers. The bottom line is Tomlin came in here and kept the Steelers winning tradition alive ... and he himself says he needs to get better. What more could you want in a coach.

Now for Cowher -- I gotta disagree with Stlrz D. I think Cowher was the best motivational coach since Lombardi. I think many Steeler fans far overestimate the talent on many of those Cowher teams and it can be proven by the overall lack of success players had once they left the steelers. I believe Chad Brown would have been a Hall of Fame candidate if he had stayed with the steelers. He left and was good but not great. Willie William, was nothing when he came to the Steelers then played great for the Steelers, got the big contract and was never played at that level again. Cowher took those teams further than any coach in that era could have but his weakness was his conservative nature when going against teams that had a lot more talent than his team had.

All in all I think the Steelers have been damn good in picking their last 3 coaches.

Ike, I like Cowher and agree with you that he was a great motivator. But I'd argue those players didn't have success elsewhere because they were drafted to fit our system. Their skillset related to what we do defensively and when put in a different system, arguably with lessor players, they weren't able to succeed.

I loved Cowher as a coach but my opinion will always remain that his teams under achieved.

MJG - moving the goal posts (with regards to Tomlin) is a common theme with LVG...as is the AHHH HAAA if Tomlin fails at something.

[jj28west]

Wow,

There are some well thought out A1 quality posts in this topic thread. I look back at mine and it looks like a 12 year old wrote it.

As far as the game winning drive has anyone ever confirmed if it was Tomlin, BA or Ben who called those plays? Maybe its not Tomlins style or he is not comfortable yet but Cowher would over rule Ron Earhardt alot, especially in the 1st Super Bowl run.

If it was Ben then talk about a coach having that kind of respect and faith in his players.

[LasVegasGuy]

Anybody want to say that Whiz couldn't have done the same thing in Pittsburgh?
Heck, he inherited a team with a lot less talent, was able to make it to the Super Bowl in 2 years and was seconds away from beating the mighty Tomlin led Steelers. Nuff said!

Tomlin was given keys to the bus and told to drive it straight. It won't be until we put some miles on the bus with him as the operator to understand what we really have in a head coach.

Even Barry Switzer took the talented Jimmy Johnson Cowboys to the Super Bowl. Oh yea! Even Jon Gruden took the Dungy Bucs' to the Super Bowl and who can forget Callahan's Raiders?

But I ask where are they now?

Can't judge what he did with Arizona because he inherited the best players on his team from the previous coach. We'll see how good a coach he is once they are all gone. Let's see what he does with his draft picks which have thus far not proven to be the difference makers on that team.

You can't have it both ways.

Same thing applies to Whis too. But in his defense he did take over a team that didn't make the playoffs for the last 10 years let alone go to the Super Bowl. Tomlin took over a Super Bowl team 2 years removed. Whiz had the much tougher task in my opinion.

[Steelerphile]

Arizona has been viewed by prognosticators as a talented team with the potential to make the playoffs for at least 4-5 years. So Whiz did a good enough job to take a talented but historically underachieving team to a 9-7 record in the worst division in the NFL.

Tomlin was able to take the Steelers, which had a certain number oif questions marks before the season, into the teeth of what was ranked the toughest schedule in the NFL to a 12-4 record.

I think Tomlin had a tougher task. The NFL doesn't award the team any points before the games because they are two years removed from a SuperBowl. Some teams or players never make the SuperBowl or make it once and never again. I don't think one year has much to do with the other personally. Every season is its own entity.

Cowher coached 15 seasons and made two SuperBowls and won one. When they made the SuperBowl in 1995, it was 10 years before they made it again in 2005.

So LasVegasGuy will continue trying his utmost to smear Tomlin but it was a GREAT accomplishment for him to lead the Steelers to a SuperBowl victory in only his second season as a head coach. Only the truly ignorant will continue with this theme. The Zayets and others are long gone. Most people are recognizing Tomlin for the fine head coach he has been, and I expect he will evolve into a better coach as he continues with team.

[NorthCoast]

Truth be told there are parts of Tomlin's game that DO need improvement. There were so calls that had me scratching my head at times. But I will say that he definitely showed improvement from Yr 1 to Yr 2. If this pace of better gameday management continues, we will be in the hunt at the end of every season. Many praise Cowher for his consistency in getting us to the post season, but I think Tomlin has the skills to better Cowher's record by far.

[feltdizz]

Anybody want to say that Whiz couldn't have done the same thing in Pittsburgh?
Heck, he inherited a team with a lot less talent, was able to make it to the Super Bowl in 2 years and was seconds away from beating the mighty Tomlin led Steelers. Nuff said!

Tomlin was given keys to the bus and told to drive it straight. It won't be until we put some miles on the bus with him as the operator to understand what we really have in a head coach.

Even Barry Switzer took the talented Jimmy Johnson Cowboys to the Super Bowl. Oh yea! Even Jon Gruden took the Dungy Bucs' to the Super Bowl and who can forget Callahan's Raiders?

But I ask where are they now?

I'll say it.. Whiz couldn't have done it with us... because he left before we decided on a coach.

Didn't Switzer beat us due to the O'Dennell tosses? he then left football...
and Dungy always won just like Cowher.. but had trouble in the playoffs... he has a ring and just retired...
Gruden won his first year and faded and took a gig in the booth... funny enough he beat his old team which Callahan was coaching....

and Callahan tanked the Cornhuskers...


at least you are man enough to stick to your guns... but I swear.. you sound bitter about Tomlin winning a SB.

[feltdizz]

Truth be told there are parts of Tomlin's game that DO need improvement. There were so calls that had me scratching my head at times. But I will say that he definitely showed improvement from Yr 1 to Yr 2. If this pace of better gameday management continues, we will be in the hunt at the end of every season. Many praise Cowher for his consistency in getting us to the post season, but I think Tomlin has the skills to better Cowher's record by far.

I think most of the head scratching comes from Tomlin believing so much in his D he takes chances.. but I think it also gives our players an edge that Cowher was unable to get our players to...

Cowher seemed to have a ceiling and our players never rose above it until the Bettis going home tour..

if it wasn't for O'Donnell though I think that onside kick would have changed Cowhers legacy...

[PSU_dropout43]

Anybody want to say that Whiz couldn't have done the same thing in Pittsburgh?
Heck, he inherited a team with a lot less talent, was able to make it to the Super Bowl in 2 years and was seconds away from beating the mighty Tomlin led Steelers. Nuff said!

Tomlin was given keys to the bus and told to drive it straight. It won't be until we put some miles on the bus with him as the operator to understand what we really have in a head coach.

Even Barry Switzer took the talented Jimmy Johnson Cowboys to the Super Bowl. Oh yea! Even Jon Gruden took the Dungy Bucs' to the Super Bowl and who can forget Callahan's Raiders?

But I ask where are they now?
agreed.

If Cowher were still head coach, I have little doubt we'd have 7 titles if not 8.

[RuthlessBurgher]

Anybody want to say that Whiz couldn't have done the same thing in Pittsburgh?
Heck, he inherited a team with a lot less talent, was able to make it to the Super Bowl in 2 years and was seconds away from beating the mighty Tomlin led Steelers. Nuff said!

Tomlin was given keys to the bus and told to drive it straight. It won't be until we put some miles on the bus with him as the operator to understand what we really have in a head coach.

Even Barry Switzer took the talented Jimmy Johnson Cowboys to the Super Bowl. Oh yea! Even Jon Gruden took the Dungy Bucs' to the Super Bowl and who can forget Callahan's Raiders?

But I ask where are they now?
agreed.

If Cowher were still head coach, I have little doubt we'd have 7 titles if not 8.

Well, 8 would have been impossible, since we went 8-8 with Cowher in '06 after winning the 5th title in '05. You really think we would have won titles with Cowher in '07 and '08 to make it 7? I don't think so...his mind was elsewhere in '06. He lost the fire. It doesn't magically re-appear the following season. Tomlin was a breath of fresh air.

[MaxAMillion]

So basically what this comes down to is that when the Steelers lose games it is because of Tomlin and his inability to coach. When they win games it is because of the talent he inherits. It is safe to draw negative conclusions about him, but not positive conclusions. Obviously being fair is not the goal here.