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Mister Pittsburgh
05-07-2009, 07:38 AM
I was just wondering about something. Last year when we picked up C Doug Legursky from Marshall he was considered just camp fodder or a practice squad guy. I think he is a bigger, more athletic, more powerful center than Shipley. So why are most people not even mentioning Legursky as a possible backup C or G? Some people are saying Shipley could start next season or will compete with Hartwig even this season.

MeetJoeGreene
05-07-2009, 07:54 AM
Good question. But just because he is big and powerful doesn't mean he has all of the other attributes of an OL.

We are talking about Shipley (at least me) because there are a lot more PSU homers than Marshall homers.

If the Steelers had "only" drafted Shipley in the 7th then I would say either has a fair shot... but the fact that they tried to get Unger probably means they don't really think Legursky has "it".

Oviedo
05-07-2009, 07:55 AM
I was just wondering about something. Last year when we picked up C Doug Legursky from Marshall he was considered just camp fodder or a practice squad guy. I think he is a bigger, more athletic, more powerful center than Shipley. So why are most people not even mentioning Legursky as a possible backup C or G? Some people are saying Shipley could start next season or will compete with Hartwig even this season.

Because Legursky is not from Penn Sate and is not a Pittsburgh kid. Your title really should be "Shipley vs. Legursky vs. Hartwig" because of those three only one of them has ever snapped a ball in an NFL game and guess what it isn't the first two. I think the wrap against Legursky is that while powerful he isn't mobile. Shipley seems to have good mobility for a Center.

Shore up the RG position with Urbik and get more consistency from Kemo and I think Hartwig is a solid player. I'd love to see Shipley be successful because he is a Pittsburgh kid but show me first.

BTW, don't forget a guy named Stapleton who has NFL starter experience and probably is going to fight to keep a paycheck. Stapleton has also shown the thing that Tomlin loves most in his offensive linemen--position flexibility.

Mister Pittsburgh
05-07-2009, 08:07 AM
I was kind of following Legursky last year after I heard we signed him as an UDFA and thought he was an interesting player. I was kind of baffled people were talking so highly of Shipley and not mentioning him at all. Steelers just signed Legursky to a 2 year deal so they most think something of him. I read this last night and thought it was interesting.....

http://nfldraftscouting.com/2008/03/...erds-legursky/

Quote:
Ask a pair of National Football League Draft prospects about Doug Legursky and they respond with laughter.During separate interviews, Keilen Dykes and Harry Douglas raved concerning their workout teammate. Legursky, Marshall University’s former center, is training for the April 26-27 draft with former West Virginia defensive lineman Dykes and Douglas, a highly-regarded wide receiver from Louisville.

Dykes and Douglas simply chuckled at the mention of Legursky, whose athleticism betrays his stout, 6-foot-3, 300-pound plus frame.

“Doug is a freak in the weight room,” said Dykes a fellow 300-pounder who works out with Legursky at Huntington’s High Intensity Training Center under local agent Dave Rich. “He puts up big numbers. He’s a big power guy.”

Legursky established numerous weight room records during his four-year Thundering Herd career. The Beckley native was a starting player as a true freshman and is working toward delivering a similar immediate impression with NFL scouts and coaches.

Marshall’s Pro Day on March 21 offers Legursky’s best opportunity to elevate his draft status. Douglas said the four-year starter is well-prepped for the extensive tryout, which includes a 40-yard dash, shuttle runs, bench press drills and interviews, along with actual football-specific workouts.

“I’ve been really impressed with Doug,” Douglas said. “To be so big, he’s in and out of cuts like a receiver.

“Scouts want you to keep your pad levels low and Doug does that very well. I’ve been very impressed with Doug; and he’s strong.”

Dykes literally has been more hands-on with Legursky’s training. They work with/against each other in lineman drills, and like Douglas, Dykes simply chuckles at Legursky’s blend of power and mobility.

“Doug is running times faster than (defensive ends) did at the (NFL) Combine,” Dykes said. “It’s been crazy. I see what he’s running, like a 4.77, and I’m like ‘wow.’

“He’s athletic and if you want to see someone who’s good on their feet, Doug is that guy. He’s putting up shuttle times that are crazy for a big guy like that.”

Legursky and quarterback Bernard Morris are Marshall’s top prospects for the NFL Draft. Fourteen Thundering Herd players have been selected since the 1998 Draft, including Ahmad Bradshaw, who earned a Super Bowl ring with the New York Giants as a rookie last season.

Legursky is a wild card entering the draft. He wasn’t invited to the NFL Combine, but his test numbers, including 36 bench presses at 225 pounds, measure favorably with his peers. He can play center and guard and is working with all-time Marshall great Mike Bartrum on long-snapping.

“He’s got great movement,” Dykes said. “At the center spot they want to see you get to that level and pick off linebackers and Doug can do that.

“At his Pro Day he’s going to shine.”

ramblinjim
05-07-2009, 09:07 AM
Or all of us could be terrible judges of talent and Legursky just needed a year or so under professional tutelage to become an excellent offensive lineman. At the end of the day, I love o-line and d-line play but I'm not a great judge of talent. I see Legursky's size, strength and speed and think "that dude can probably play some ball".

JUST-PLAIN-NASTY
05-07-2009, 09:21 AM
They both have a good shot at playing in this league. You are correct saying Legursky is bigger & stronger than Shipley. However, Legursky is "stiffer" than Shipley because of his weight room training. Not always the best thing for a football player especially at C. Shipley is still strong in his own respect and has flexibilty on Legursky. Shipley is better in space on the LB level in my opinion. It wouldn't surprise me to see both on the roster and Hartwig gone after next season. It also wouldn't surprise me to see one here backing up a new C via draft or FA after this year. We will know more after we see them through the preseason. I'm not willing to write either off because of their height or short arms because of their strength, athleticism, football smarts, or their tenacity. We have all heard the saying that football is 80% mental & 20% physical. The correct saying is 80% mental, 20% physical, & 10% heart! Shipley & Legursky have that 10% in their corner...That is always a plus!

flippy
05-07-2009, 09:29 AM
I like both of these guys.

Legs is bigger and stronger.

Ship is a quick, smart player that can get to the next level and block down field.

Centers need to be smart and leaders of the line. Ship may have the edge in that dept from what we know of him.

ramblinjim
05-07-2009, 09:35 AM
I mean really if all the guys the Steelers have start living up to their perceived talent we could have a really solid O-Line.

Hills - Wasn't he an all-american before he got hurt?
Legursky - Big, strong, fast, mean guard, nationally ranked wrestler at one point
Shipley - Awarded for being the best center in the NCAA, quick, can get to the next level a-la Dawson
Urbik - Big, strong, mean SOB
Capiizzi - Million dollar talent, nickel brain. Well if we could get his brain up to being worth $25?

Kemo is big strong and mean.
Stapleton can play multiple positions
Colon could be getting better

Some of these developmental prospects, many of which will have three years of coaching under Porno Larry and three years in Arians system.....

Hey I'm just saying...... maybe the glass is more full than we ever thought it was?

flippy
05-07-2009, 09:44 AM
I mean really if all the guys the Steelers have start living up to their perceived talent we could have a really solid O-Line.

Hills - Wasn't he an all-american before he got hurt?
Legursky - Big, strong, fast, mean guard, nationally ranked wrestler at one point
Shipley - Awarded for being the best center in the NCAA, quick, can get to the next level a-la Dawson
Urbik - Big, strong, mean SOB
Capiizzi - Million dollar talent, nickel brain. Well if we could get his brain up to being worth $25?

Kemo is big strong and mean.
Stapleton can play multiple positions
Colon could be getting better

Some of these developmental prospects, many of which will have three years of coaching under Porno Larry and three years in Arians system.....

Hey I'm just saying...... maybe the glass is more full than we ever thought it was?

Don't forget Max. I think this can be his breakout season. He's got the tools to be an excellent LT. And just needed some playing time.

RuthlessBurgher
05-07-2009, 10:08 AM
I think this is how it will go down:

Stapleton and Urbik will compete for the starting RG at camp this year.

Hartwig will be the starting center, so Shipley and Legursky will battle to make the roster as a back-up at center. The other could possibly be held on the practice squad if they clear waivers.

Regardless of who wins that back-up center competition in camp this year, I think that person will be deactvated on gameday more often than not, since I think if anything happens to Hartwig, Stapleton will move to center anyway.

In 2010, Urbik is the starting RG (if he doesn't win the job right off the bat as a rookie in '09, I think the job is almost surely his in his second year in '10)

Hartwig will likely not be re-signed beyond '09, so Stapleton and the winner of the Shipley/Legursky battle in camp this year will compete for the starting center job in '10 (it could potentially be a three-man battle royale if we are able to keep the loser of the Shipley/Legursky showdown on the practice squad all season)

My best-case scenario for this season would be for Urbik to win the RG position in camp outright, giving you a line of Starks-Kemo-Hartwig-Urbik-Colon, and they you could have two guys who can play multiple positions, Essex (G/T) and Stapleton (C/G) as your utility backups so that you would only need to have 7 o-lineman active on gameday, giving you an opportunity to dress an important special teams demon elsewhere.

JUST-PLAIN-NASTY
05-07-2009, 10:26 AM
I think this is how it will go down:

Stapleton and Urbik will compete for the starting RG at camp this year.

Hartwig will be the starting center, so Shipley and Legursky will battle to make the roster as a back-up at center. The other could possibly be held on the practice squad if they clear waivers.

Regardless of who wins that back-up center competition in camp this year, I think that person will be deactvated on gameday more often than not, since I think if anything happens to Hartwig, Stapleton will move to center anyway.

In 2010, Urbik is the starting RG (if he doesn't win the job right off the bat as a rookie in '09, I think the job is almost surely his in his second year in '10)

Hartwig will likely not be re-signed beyond '09, so Stapleton and the winner of the Shipley/Legursky battle in camp this year will compete for the starting center job in '10 (it could potentially be a three-man battle royale if we are able to keep the loser of the Shipley/Legursky showdown on the practice squad all season)

My best-case scenario for this season would be for Urbik to win the RG position in camp outright, giving you a line of Starks-Kemo-Hartwig-Urbik-Colon, and they you could have two guys who can play multiple positions, Essex (G/T) and Stapleton (C/G) as your utility backups so that you would only need to have 7 o-lineman active on gameday, giving you an opportunity to dress an important special teams demon elsewhere.
Agree 100% I think Urbik win the RG spot for opening day. Nothing against Stapleton but Urbik's ability will win out. Stapleton needs to keep push'n iron and work on his technique. He will be solid but Urbik's ability and stature wins out as long as he picks up the playbook and assignments quickly.

Mel Blount's G
05-07-2009, 11:03 AM
I mean really if all the guys the Steelers have start living up to their perceived talent we could have a really solid O-Line.

Hills - Wasn't he an all-american before he got hurt?
Legursky - Big, strong, fast, mean guard, nationally ranked wrestler at one point
Shipley - Awarded for being the best center in the NCAA, quick, can get to the next level a-la Dawson
Urbik - Big, strong, mean SOB
Capiizzi - Million dollar talent, nickel brain. Well if we could get his brain up to being worth $25?

Kemo is big strong and mean.
Stapleton can play multiple positions
Colon could be getting better

Some of these developmental prospects, many of which will have three years of coaching under Porno Larry and three years in Arians system.....

Hey I'm just saying...... maybe the glass is more full than we ever thought it was?

Don't forget Max. I think this can be his breakout season. He's got the tools to be an excellent LT. And just needed some playing time.
fLIP: Absolutely agree he has the tools. Imo, Max's issue is with motivation and desire. It seems at times he just doesn't care enough. I.e. I thought he turned it up near the end of ther season and in the post season last year but prior to that wasn't consistently working hard enough. Now, I admit to not really having hard evidence, aside from his play, to back this up. And I'm obviously speculating as to why his play was not all that at times. Obviously other factors like the line jelling together as the season went on and starks improving come into play...but I just had a feeling that starks didn't care at times. Maybe the truckloads of criticism effected his attitude?

MeetJoeGreene
05-07-2009, 11:13 AM
I think this is how it will go down:

Stapleton and Urbik will compete for the starting RG at camp this year.

Hartwig will be the starting center, so Shipley and Legursky will battle to make the roster as a back-up at center. The other could possibly be held on the practice squad if they clear waivers.

Regardless of who wins that back-up center competition in camp this year, I think that person will be deactvated on gameday more often than not, since I think if anything happens to Hartwig, Stapleton will move to center anyway.

In 2010, Urbik is the starting RG (if he doesn't win the job right off the bat as a rookie in '09, I think the job is almost surely his in his second year in '10)

Hartwig will likely not be re-signed beyond '09, so Stapleton and the winner of the Shipley/Legursky battle in camp this year will compete for the starting center job in '10 (it could potentially be a three-man battle royale if we are able to keep the loser of the Shipley/Legursky showdown on the practice squad all season)

My best-case scenario for this season would be for Urbik to win the RG position in camp outright, giving you a line of Starks-Kemo-Hartwig-Urbik-Colon, and they you could have two guys who can play multiple positions, Essex (G/T) and Stapleton (C/G) as your utility backups so that you would only need to have 7 o-lineman active on gameday, giving you an opportunity to dress an important special teams demon elsewhere.

I really like your best case scenario. Except I hope Hills can beat out Colon.

RuthlessBurgher
05-07-2009, 12:08 PM
I think this is how it will go down:

Stapleton and Urbik will compete for the starting RG at camp this year.

Hartwig will be the starting center, so Shipley and Legursky will battle to make the roster as a back-up at center. The other could possibly be held on the practice squad if they clear waivers.

Regardless of who wins that back-up center competition in camp this year, I think that person will be deactvated on gameday more often than not, since I think if anything happens to Hartwig, Stapleton will move to center anyway.

In 2010, Urbik is the starting RG (if he doesn't win the job right off the bat as a rookie in '09, I think the job is almost surely his in his second year in '10)

Hartwig will likely not be re-signed beyond '09, so Stapleton and the winner of the Shipley/Legursky battle in camp this year will compete for the starting center job in '10 (it could potentially be a three-man battle royale if we are able to keep the loser of the Shipley/Legursky showdown on the practice squad all season)

My best-case scenario for this season would be for Urbik to win the RG position in camp outright, giving you a line of Starks-Kemo-Hartwig-Urbik-Colon, and they you could have two guys who can play multiple positions, Essex (G/T) and Stapleton (C/G) as your utility backups so that you would only need to have 7 o-lineman active on gameday, giving you an opportunity to dress an important special teams demon elsewhere.

I really like your best case scenario. Except I hope Hills can beat out Colon.

Or Jon Runyan's physical checks out and he signs to a short-term club-friendly deal to play RT. He did express a desire to play here, and even though he is old, he could still play well if his injuries are all healed (and even if he got injured again, we would have Colon to fall back on, which is where we are now anyway). His injuries are not the chronic type like Marvel's back which will not go away, and he was an iron-man type, starting over 175 straight games for the Eagles at one point.

BradshawsHairdresser
05-07-2009, 11:23 PM
I was kind of following Legursky last year after I heard we signed him as an UDFA and thought he was an interesting player. I was kind of baffled people were talking so highly of Shipley and not mentioning him at all. Steelers just signed Legursky to a 2 year deal so they most think something of him. I read this last night and thought it was interesting.....

http://nfldraftscouting.com/2008/03/...erds-legursky/

Quote:
Ask a pair of National Football League Draft prospects about Doug Legursky and they respond with laughter.During separate interviews, Keilen Dykes and Harry Douglas raved concerning their workout teammate. Legursky, Marshall University’s former center, is training for the April 26-27 draft with former West Virginia defensive lineman Dykes and Douglas, a highly-regarded wide receiver from Louisville.

Dykes and Douglas simply chuckled at the mention of Legursky, whose athleticism betrays his stout, 6-foot-3, 300-pound plus frame.

“Doug is a freak in the weight room,” said Dykes a fellow 300-pounder who works out with Legursky at Huntington’s High Intensity Training Center under local agent Dave Rich. “He puts up big numbers. He’s a big power guy.”

Legursky established numerous weight room records during his four-year Thundering Herd career. The Beckley native was a starting player as a true freshman and is working toward delivering a similar immediate impression with NFL scouts and coaches.

Marshall’s Pro Day on March 21 offers Legursky’s best opportunity to elevate his draft status. Douglas said the four-year starter is well-prepped for the extensive tryout, which includes a 40-yard dash, shuttle runs, bench press drills and interviews, along with actual football-specific workouts.

“I’ve been really impressed with Doug,” Douglas said. “To be so big, he’s in and out of cuts like a receiver.

“Scouts want you to keep your pad levels low and Doug does that very well. I’ve been very impressed with Doug; and he’s strong.”

Dykes literally has been more hands-on with Legursky’s training. They work with/against each other in lineman drills, and like Douglas, Dykes simply chuckles at Legursky’s blend of power and mobility.

“Doug is running times faster than (defensive ends) did at the (NFL) Combine,” Dykes said. “It’s been crazy. I see what he’s running, like a 4.77, and I’m like ‘wow.’

“He’s athletic and if you want to see someone who’s good on their feet, Doug is that guy. He’s putting up shuttle times that are crazy for a big guy like that.”

Legursky and quarterback Bernard Morris are Marshall’s top prospects for the NFL Draft. Fourteen Thundering Herd players have been selected since the 1998 Draft, including Ahmad Bradshaw, who earned a Super Bowl ring with the New York Giants as a rookie last season.

Legursky is a wild card entering the draft. He wasn’t invited to the NFL Combine, but his test numbers, including 36 bench presses at 225 pounds, measure favorably with his peers. He can play center and guard and is working with all-time Marshall great Mike Bartrum on long-snapping.

“He’s got great movement,” Dykes said. “At the center spot they want to see you get to that level and pick off linebackers and Doug can do that.

“At his Pro Day he’s going to shine.”

Maybe Legursky could switch to the defensive side...

Chadman
05-07-2009, 11:28 PM
If the Steelers could find a way to get Hartwig/Shipley or Legursky long-snapping, there is potentially room to keep all of them....

Legursky's best bet is to play OG- big & strong, and now the Steelers have 4 OC options, might be worth him focussing on OG.

Then there's the OT position with the potential addition of Runyan & with the promising Ramon Foster on the books...

Camp could prove interesting.

Mister Pittsburgh
05-07-2009, 11:42 PM
where are you guys seeing 'the potential addition of jon runyan?

ramblinjim
05-08-2009, 09:25 AM
If the Steelers could find a way to get Hartwig/Shipley or Legursky long-snapping, there is potentially room to keep all of them....

Legursky's best bet is to play OG- big & strong, and now the Steelers have 4 OC options, might be worth him focussing on OG.

Then there's the OT position with the potential addition of Runyan & with the promising Ramon Foster on the books...

Camp could prove interesting.


Not to mention we seem to have a coach that won't let a vet keep his job just because he's a vet...... It could get very interesting

RuthlessBurgher
05-08-2009, 10:26 AM
where are you guys seeing 'the potential addition of jon runyan?

It was supposedly discussed on WIP (a Philly sports radio station). It is mentioned at the following site (although I don't know how much credence you can take from a site that has "rumor mill" right in its title).

http://www.sportsrumormill.com/forum/nfl-sound-off/16456-rumor-runyan-steelers-have-mutual-interest.html

Oviedo
05-08-2009, 10:37 AM
If the Steelers could find a way to get Hartwig/Shipley or Legursky long-snapping, there is potentially room to keep all of them....

Legursky's best bet is to play OG- big & strong, and now the Steelers have 4 OC options, might be worth him focussing on OG.

Then there's the OT position with the potential addition of Runyan & with the promising Ramon Foster on the books...

Camp could prove interesting.


Not to mention we seem to have a coach that won't let a vet keep his job just because he's a vet...... It could get very interesting

Tomlin is early in his coaching career and he is not a burn out like Cowher was after his Super Bowl win. You just sense something in Tomlin that he would consider less than four Super Bowls like Noll got as not making the grade. Tomlin shares the same quiet determination that Noll had.

I think there are a lot of guys who are fighting for their NFL lives at camp this year.