Bengals draft a "handful"

[anger 82&95]

http://www.fannation.com/truth_and_rumo ... ref=fromSI (http://www.fannation.com/truth_and_rumors/view/101572-gm-maualuga-was-handful-at-usc?eref=fromSI)

Rey Maualuga, the second-round pick of the Bengals, needs to make sure he walks a very tight behavior line in Cincinnati. Maualuga slipped in the draft for a number of reasons, and he must keep his off-the-field behavior in check and not create problems for the coaching staff. In talking to some NFL people, I heard that Maualuga was not always compliant with the rules on and off the field at USC. He was, as one GM said to me, putting it mildly, "a handful."

[Oviedo]

Tigers can't change their stripes. He'll fit right in with the Bumgals.

[rpmpit]

You'd think after all these years of getting their azzes kicked by us, they'd start to learn something from us. Talent on the field means nothing if you're a doosh bag off the field. Maybe someday they'll get it.

[Djfan]

Add to that insight that they are not getting, is that our draft picks all seem to score high on intellect. They don't get it in Cinci, and never will.

[steelblood]

Add to that insight that they are not getting, is that our draft picks all seem to score high on intellect. They don't get it in Cinci, and never will.

While I agree that the Steelers value intellect, I wouldn't say they "all seem to score high on intellect." I can think of some recent draft picks that don't seem that smart.

[steeler_fan_in_t.o.]

When Leon Hall got into trouble, Jom has said that he was surprised because Hall was one of the good kids. I then commented that if you drop a good kid and give him lots of money into a bad room, he will be changed by the locker room as opposed to his positive influence rubbing off on the rest of them. Or, to use a Star Wars analogy, the lure of the dark side is greater.

People around here often say things like "if we bring a guy like that here then our leadership will make sure that he stays out of trouble". I used to say that too. The thing is that this team will still avoid these players - I assume to avoid the risk of one player becoming too great of a distraction. Then teams like the Bengals embrace these guys, and these are the teams who should avoid them the most.

[birtikidis]

I remember when the gators had Tony Joiner playing here. his roommate was tim tebow. do you have any idea how much joiner got in while he was living there? the answer is alot.
if Tim Tebow doesn't rub off on you (that sounded gross) then no-one will...

[RuthlessBurgher]

I remember when the gators had Tony Joiner playing here. his roommate was tim tebow. do you have any idea how much joiner got in while he was living there? the answer is alot.
if Tim Tebow doesn't rub off on you (that sounded gross) then no-one will...

:Agree (that did sound gross) :P

[flippy]

Can't wait until Hines Ward blocks him and welcomes him to the NFL.

[stlrz d]

Add to that insight that they are not getting, is that our draft picks all seem to score high on intellect. They don't get it in Cinci, and never will.

While I agree that the Steelers value intellect, I wouldn't say they "all seem to score high on intellect." I can think of some recent draft picks that don't seem that smart.

http://media.scout.com/Media/Image/54/547409.jpg


When Leon Hall got into trouble, Jom has said that he was surprised because Hall was one of the good kids. I then commented that if you drop a good kid and give him lots of money into a bad room, he will be changed by the locker room as opposed to his positive influence rubbing off on the rest of them. Or, to use a Star Wars analogy, the lure of the dark side is greater.

People around here often say things like "if we bring a guy like that here then our leadership will make sure that he stays out of trouble". I used to say that too. The thing is that this team will still avoid these players - I assume to avoid the risk of one player becoming too great of a distraction. Then teams like the Bengals embrace these guys, and these are the teams who should avoid them the most.

I've always called that out as being a fallacy. People don't change unless they want to change. More money just makes them more of what they truly are no matter who's around them. Meaning trouble is trouble whether it's broke or rolling in cash...all the cash does is make it worse.

[steelers43]

They likely landed one of the top LB's on talent and one, if not the best, talented OT's and got a steal in the third.

The problem isn't talent, it's the coaching and directing the talent. They won't succeed until the coaching changes but talent isn't a problem. Control is the problem.

[SteelCzar76]

They likely landed one of the top LB's on talent and one, if not the best, talented OT's and got a steal in the third.

The problem isn't talent, it's the coaching and directing the talent. They won't succeed until the coaching changes but talent isn't a problem. Control is the problem.

Exactly. It's not just that Marvin Lewis is soft and uninspiring to today's player. He lacks the ability to convey to today's players whom posses perhaps too great a degree of "swagger" that it's all for nothing if the franchise, and your teammates do not succeed as a whole along with themselves.

Playing football for a living is not a right or a privilege,..it is the by product of a universal gift in terms of talent and application. And as such,...one should make the absolute most of being able to do so both on and off of the field.

[RuthlessBurgher]

They likely landed one of the top LB's on talent and one, if not the best, talented OT's and got a steal in the third.

The problem isn't talent, it's the coaching and directing the talent. They won't succeed until the coaching changes but talent isn't a problem. Control is the problem.

:Agree The Bengals have always placed a premium on talent. However, they have no grasp on other intangible qualities such as intelligence, work ethic, leadership, morality, the importance of football to the prospect, etc.

Andre Smith could be an All-Time great, or he could be out of the league in 3 years. They could have had Eugene Monroe instead, who may be a notch below Smith on raw talent but ten notches above him on all of the other intangible qualities. Smith may have a slightly higher ceiling, but he also has a much lower floor. You pretty much know what you are getting with Monroe, while Smith is an absolute enigma.

I can't fault them for the Maualuga pick, because he was probably the best value on the board at the time, and perhaps his old USC teammate Keith Rivers will be able to take him under his wing and keep him in check, but there has been an awful lot of negative reports swirling around him about his immaturity both on and off the field (even if he is not a repeat offender convict like the RB they stupidly selected on day two).

Michael Johnson may have more talent than any of the DE's in this draft. He has more raw ability than Tyson Jackson who was taken 3rd overall, and more talent than our first round pick Ziggy Hood (although it is somewhat of an apples-to-oranges comparison between 3-4 DE's and 4-3 DE's). Johnson has more sheer athleticism than other 4-3 DE's like Aaron Maybin or Brian Orakpo, who were both taken in the top half of the first round. But the fact that he takes so many plays off and doesn't try hard is what pushed him down to the third round (and to the Bengals, who can't seem to have enough of these guys).

I do like the punter they drafted, though. :wink:

[steelers43]

They likely landed one of the top LB's on talent and one, if not the best, talented OT's and got a steal in the third.

The problem isn't talent, it's the coaching and directing the talent. They won't succeed until the coaching changes but talent isn't a problem. Control is the problem.

:Agree The Bengals have always placed a premium on talent. However, they have no grasp on other intangible qualities such as intelligence, work ethic, leadership, morality, the importance of football to the prospect, etc.

Andre Smith could be an All-Time great, or he could be out of the league in 3 years. They could have had Eugene Monroe instead, who may be a notch below Smith on raw talent but ten notches above him on all of the other intangible qualities. Smith may have a slightly higher ceiling, but he also has a much lower floor. You pretty much know what you are getting with Monroe, while Smith is an absolute enigma.

I can't fault them for the Maualuga pick, because he was probably the best value on the board at the time, and perhaps his old USC teammate Keith Rivers will be able to take him under his wing and keep him in check, but there has been an awful lot of negative reports swirling around him about his immaturity both on and off the field (even if he is not a repeat offender convict like the RB they stupidly selected on day two).

Michael Johnson may have more talent than any of the DE's in this draft. He has more raw ability than Tyson Jackson who was taken 3rd overall, and more talent than our first round pick Ziggy Hood (although it is somewhat of an apples-to-oranges comparison between 3-4 DE's and 4-3 DE's). Johnson has more sheer athleticism than other 4-3 DE's like Aaron Maybin or Brian Orakpo, who were both taken in the top half of the first round. But the fact that he takes so many plays off and doesn't try hard is what pushed him down to the third round (and to the Bengals, who can't seem to have enough of these guys).

I do like the punter they drafted, though. :wink:

All three were great gambles though. Where they got them, they represent tremendous value. If they are lucky, they will be motivated to show everyone wrong and it will make them better. With Lewis at coach, I somehow doubt it though.

[Slapstick]

They likely landed one of the top LB's on talent and one, if not the best, talented OT's and got a steal in the third.

The problem isn't talent, it's the coaching and directing the talent. They won't succeed until the coaching changes but talent isn't a problem. Control is the problem.

Wrong.

Control isn't the problem...self-control is the problem...

While I agree that young men often make mistakes, I also think that is a thin excuse, because the operative word in "young men" is, of course, "men"...

These are grown men who have demonstrated a lack of self-control...coaching cannot help this in most cases (ie: Plaxico Burress)...it may help to mitigate it for a time, but the man must want to change on his own...

I agree that the players that Cincinnati drafted are talented...their first four picks could be starters on opening day...but, that's only because their team is so damn bad...

I'll continue to believe that:

slightly less talent + good football character = higher team achievement

...rather than the Bengal model...

The media is all over Cincinnati for having such a great draft...but, it isn't like their draft strategy was so brilliant...Cincinnati has a notoriously under-resourced scouting department...they just drafted the players that fell to them that everybody knew was good...if the rest of the team weren't so pathetic, their draft wouldn't seem so stellar...

[Jom112]

From the outside looking in, it seems to be the same old Bengals team. You've got some talented players mixed with some questionable character issues and a subpar F.O. running it all. But as they say the Devil is in the details.

A couple of key things I've noticed in the team that is giving me some hope:

1. Players work ethic - Everyone knows about the "troubled" players, the Odell Thurmans and Chris Henry's but what hurt the team just as much IMHO were players like Rudi Johnson, Deltha O'Neal and Tory James. Rudi would skip meetings ever so often which lead to some suspensions (Forced to sit a quarter or two). If anyone re-watches the Bengals/Steelers playoff game they can see Chuck Bres. (The DC) trying to coach the players on the sidelines and Tory James just walked away, not listening to him. Those type of things were common place a couple of seasons ago.

Now you have players like Cedric Benson and Leon Hall, who might both have DUI's but are there at every practice and doing everything they can to help the team win. Hall wants to work on the special teams unit which is a big step up from starters in the past like Deltha who just wanted to get paid. And it's not just limited to them: Andre Caldwell, Jerome Simpson, Dhani Jones, Keith Rivers, Chris Crocker, Ndukwe, Andrew Whithworth, etc... All guys working harder this offseason then I've seen our players working in the past. The only player I see as a problem on the team is Chad Johnson, which is a bad situation but I'll take that over the 6 or 7 malcontents we usually go into the season with.

2. Mike Zimmer - Can't say enough good things about the new DC. He gets in everyone's face which is what a team that lacks discipline needs.

3. Depth - Our 1st string players the past couple of seasons could compete with anyone. But we had zero depth. If the Steelers, Colts or Patriots had injuries they could plug someone else in and still win, we couldn't. Now I think our depth is a lot better. We have LB's like Brandon Johnson and Rey Maualuga who could be starters for us (And other teams) but will most likely be splitting time and coming off the bench.

We still have a long way to go but I think we're going in the right direction and that we're building a team for sustained success, not one that will do well one season and then disappear.

But then again it is the offseason and the kool-aid always taste good this time of year... :Beer

[steeler_fan_in_t.o.]

1. Players work ethic - Everyone knows about the "troubled" players, the Odell Thurmans and Chris Henry's but what hurt the team just as much IMHO were players like Rudi Johnson, Deltha O'Neal and Tory James. Rudi would skip meetings ever so often which lead to some suspensions (Forced to sit a quarter or two). If anyone re-watches the Bengals/Steelers playoff game they can see Chuck Bres. (The DC) trying to coach the players on the sidelines and Tory James just walked away, not listening to him. Those type of things were common place a couple of seasons ago.

I agree that it is definitely a move in the right direction - having players who want to play, play hard, and love the game. I think that one thing that you guys would need before that becomes a big positive for you is a single leader in the clubhouse. Someone who the players respect and fear.

As much as we all like to laugh at the Ravens and their thug leader, they may not have the greatest moral fiber, but they are a team with unquestionable leadership.

You cannot slack on that team, otherwise you must answer to Lewis. Those players love him, and are afraid to give less than 100% in fear of disappointing him.

[PSU_dropout43]

http://www.cfbwizard.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/08/6519-rey-thong.jpg

[Jom112]

http://www.baltimoresun.com/media/photo/2009-01/44313738.jpg

http://photos.pennlive.com/photos/patriot-news/60246152e91aed79ba9ae192565ce7c0.jpg

http://www.pe.com/imagesdaily/2008/12-25/usc_ucla_football_400.jpg

[RuthlessBurgher]

New Steeler A.Q. Shipley had a good game in that Rose Bowl, though (even if he was the only Nittany Lion to do so).