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SteelerNation1
04-30-2009, 01:20 PM
Another MB is reporting that the Steelers have signed WR Shaun McDonald (played for the rams and lions I think). Also, the MB said they signed P Dirk Johnson and K Piotr Czech, who apparently was in Ravens camp last year. Another thing is they have released LS Jared Retkofsky

Like I said, not sure if its true so take it foe what5 its worth

SteelerNation1
04-30-2009, 01:21 PM
It is true

http://news.steelers.com/article/105162/

flippy
04-30-2009, 01:41 PM
nice pick up with mcdonald

RuthlessBurgher
04-30-2009, 02:03 PM
Johnson and Czech are merely camp legs to keep Sepulveda and Reed fresh. I expected them to sign and extra kicker and punter for camp. McDonald is a solid option as a slot guy and a veteran to push Sweed. He's always been a 3rd/4th WR, behind Ike Bruce and Torry Holt in St. Louis and behind Calvin Johnson and Roy Williams (until he was traded to the Cowboys) in Detroit.


Shaun McDonald | #84 | WR

Height: 5-10 Weight: 183 Age: 27

Born: 6/13/1981 Phoenix , AZ

College: Arizona State

Experience: 7th season

High School: Shadow Mountain HS [Phoenix, AZ]

Career Stats
Season Team Receiving Rushing Fumbles
G GS Rec Yds Avg Lng TD Att Yds Avg Lng TD FUM Lost
2008 Detroit Lions 12 7 35 332 9.5 26 1 -- -- -- -- -- 2 1
2007 Detroit Lions 16 7 79 943 11.9 49T 6 4 2 0.5 9 0 3 2
2006 St. Louis Rams 16 0 13 136 10.5 28 1 -- -- -- -- -- 2 1
2005 St. Louis Rams 16 2 46 523 11.4 31 0 1 7 7.0 7 0 1 1
2004 St. Louis Rams 16 0 37 494 13.4 52T 3 4 0 0.0 7 0 4 2
2003 St. Louis Rams 8 1 10 62 6.2 13 0 2 7 3.5 5 0 1 0
TOTAL 220 2,490 11.3 52 11 11 16 1.5 9 0 13 7

papillon
04-30-2009, 02:08 PM
Another MB is reporting that the Steelers have signed WR Shaun McDonald (played for the rams and lions I think). Also, the MB said they signed P Dirk Johnson and K Piotr Czech, who apparently was in Ravens camp last year. Another thing is they have released LS Jared Retkofsky

Like I said, not sure if its true so take it foe what5 its worth

Did they just hand the long snapping duties to Shipely? :Bow

Pappy

RuthlessBurgher
04-30-2009, 02:09 PM
Piotr Czech, 6'5" 210 lbs.?

If he doesn't work out as a kicker, do you think the Pens could try him out as a defenseman?

That's a hockey name if I ever heard one.

Oviedo
04-30-2009, 02:11 PM
Another MB is reporting that the Steelers have signed WR Shaun McDonald (played for the rams and lions I think). Also, the MB said they signed P Dirk Johnson and K Piotr Czech, who apparently was in Ravens camp last year. Another thing is they have released LS Jared Retkofsky

Like I said, not sure if its true so take it foe what5 its worth

Did they just hand the long snapping duties to Shipely? :Bow

Pappy

You still have Greg Warren on the roster but I think Warren has a heafty cap number for a long snapper and if Shipley can prove he can consistently do the job it is in all likelihood his. Here is hoping he is up to the challenge.

papillon
04-30-2009, 02:24 PM
Another MB is reporting that the Steelers have signed WR Shaun McDonald (played for the rams and lions I think). Also, the MB said they signed P Dirk Johnson and K Piotr Czech, who apparently was in Ravens camp last year. Another thing is they have released LS Jared Retkofsky

Like I said, not sure if its true so take it foe what5 its worth

Did they just hand the long snapping duties to Shipely? :Bow

Pappy

You still have Greg Warren on the roster but I think Warren has a heafty cap number for a long snapper and if Shipley can prove he can consistently do the job it is in all likelihood his. Here is hoping he is up to the challenge.

I hope so as well; then next year we pick up an extra roster spot for depth at a position that is involved in half of the plays during a game w/o having to hire a LS.

Pappy

BradshawsHairdresser
04-30-2009, 02:37 PM
Another MB is reporting that the Steelers have signed WR Shaun McDonald (played for the rams and lions I think). Also, the MB said they signed P Dirk Johnson and K Piotr Czech, who apparently was in Ravens camp last year. Another thing is they have released LS Jared Retkofsky

Like I said, not sure if its true so take it foe what5 its worth

Did they just hand the long snapping duties to Shipely? :Bow

Pappy

You still have Greg Warren on the roster but I think Warren has a heafty cap number for a long snapper and if Shipley can prove he can consistently do the job it is in all likelihood his. Here is hoping he is up to the challenge.

The Steelers signed Estermeyer from Pitt to a 2-year contract. I'm sure Warren will be axed soon.

SteelerNation1
04-30-2009, 03:05 PM
Another MB is reporting that the Steelers have signed WR Shaun McDonald (played for the rams and lions I think). Also, the MB said they signed P Dirk Johnson and K Piotr Czech, who apparently was in Ravens camp last year. Another thing is they have released LS Jared Retkofsky

Like I said, not sure if its true so take it foe what5 its worth

Did they just hand the long snapping duties to Shipely? :Bow

Pappy

You still have Greg Warren on the roster but I think Warren has a heafty cap number for a long snapper and if Shipley can prove he can consistently do the job it is in all likelihood his. Here is hoping he is up to the challenge.
AQ Shipley was on Sportsbeat a few nights ago and said he could snap, did it at the combine, but hasnt really long-snapped since high school.

RuthlessBurgher
04-30-2009, 03:18 PM
Another MB is reporting that the Steelers have signed WR Shaun McDonald (played for the rams and lions I think). Also, the MB said they signed P Dirk Johnson and K Piotr Czech, who apparently was in Ravens camp last year. Another thing is they have released LS Jared Retkofsky

Like I said, not sure if its true so take it foe what5 its worth

Did they just hand the long snapping duties to Shipely? :Bow

Pappy

You still have Greg Warren on the roster but I think Warren has a heafty cap number for a long snapper and if Shipley can prove he can consistently do the job it is in all likelihood his. Here is hoping he is up to the challenge.
AQ Shipley was on Sportsbeat a few nights ago and said he could snap, did it at the combine, but hasnt really long-snapped since high school.

Legursky said the same thing last year when we brought him in as a UDFA. If I recall correctly, a whole bunch of folks on the board were clamoring for us to keep him as a center and long snapper in order to save a roster spot. But I don't think we ever tried him as a long snapper, even at camp.

papillon
04-30-2009, 03:30 PM
Another MB is reporting that the Steelers have signed WR Shaun McDonald (played for the rams and lions I think). Also, the MB said they signed P Dirk Johnson and K Piotr Czech, who apparently was in Ravens camp last year. Another thing is they have released LS Jared Retkofsky

Like I said, not sure if its true so take it foe what5 its worth

Did they just hand the long snapping duties to Shipely? :Bow

Pappy

You still have Greg Warren on the roster but I think Warren has a heafty cap number for a long snapper and if Shipley can prove he can consistently do the job it is in all likelihood his. Here is hoping he is up to the challenge.
AQ Shipley was on Sportsbeat a few nights ago and said he could snap, did it at the combine, but hasnt really long-snapped since high school.

Good enough for me... :stirpot :P But, still worth the try, bring in Warren and Shipley to battle. It can't hurt, the worst that happens is you end puttihg Shipley on the PS and lose him to the Browns or Bengals. :evil:

Pappy

RuthlessBurgher
04-30-2009, 03:36 PM
Another MB is reporting that the Steelers have signed WR Shaun McDonald (played for the rams and lions I think). Also, the MB said they signed P Dirk Johnson and K Piotr Czech, who apparently was in Ravens camp last year. Another thing is they have released LS Jared Retkofsky

Like I said, not sure if its true so take it foe what5 its worth

Did they just hand the long snapping duties to Shipely? :Bow

Pappy

You still have Greg Warren on the roster but I think Warren has a heafty cap number for a long snapper and if Shipley can prove he can consistently do the job it is in all likelihood his. Here is hoping he is up to the challenge.
AQ Shipley was on Sportsbeat a few nights ago and said he could snap, did it at the combine, but hasnt really long-snapped since high school.

Good enough for me... :stirpot :P But, still worth the try, bring in Warren and Shipley to battle. It can't hurt, the worst that happens is you end puttihg Shipley on the PS and lose him to the Browns or Bengals. :evil:

Pappy

Having Hank Fraley flashbacks, are we?

Sure, he was claimed off our practice squad by the Eagles, but he made his way to Cleveland eventually.

:brownssuck

steelers43
04-30-2009, 04:03 PM
Piotr Czech, 6'5" 210 lbs.?

If he doesn't work out as a kicker, do you think the Pens could try him out as a defenseman?

That's a hockey name if I ever heard one.

Can he kickoff and hit the endzone consistently? I'd sure like to see that. Reed is good kicker but his kickoffs suck.

steelers43
04-30-2009, 04:05 PM
Another MB is reporting that the Steelers have signed WR Shaun McDonald (played for the rams and lions I think). Also, the MB said they signed P Dirk Johnson and K Piotr Czech, who apparently was in Ravens camp last year. Another thing is they have released LS Jared Retkofsky

Like I said, not sure if its true so take it foe what5 its worth

Did they just hand the long snapping duties to Shipely? :Bow

Pappy

You still have Greg Warren on the roster but I think Warren has a heafty cap number for a long snapper and if Shipley can prove he can consistently do the job it is in all likelihood his. Here is hoping he is up to the challenge.
AQ Shipley was on Sportsbeat a few nights ago and said he could snap, did it at the combine, but hasnt really long-snapped since high school.


I would think his flexibility at his girth level would make long snapping consistently very hard. I don't see him being our long snapper.

papillon
04-30-2009, 04:08 PM
Another MB is reporting that the Steelers have signed WR Shaun McDonald (played for the rams and lions I think). Also, the MB said they signed P Dirk Johnson and K Piotr Czech, who apparently was in Ravens camp last year. Another thing is they have released LS Jared Retkofsky

Like I said, not sure if its true so take it foe what5 its worth

Did they just hand the long snapping duties to Shipely? :Bow

Pappy

You still have Greg Warren on the roster but I think Warren has a heafty cap number for a long snapper and if Shipley can prove he can consistently do the job it is in all likelihood his. Here is hoping he is up to the challenge.
AQ Shipley was on Sportsbeat a few nights ago and said he could snap, did it at the combine, but hasnt really long-snapped since high school.


I would think his flexibility at his girth level would make long snapping consistently very hard. I don't see him being our long snapper.

You're a PSU fan. Did he ever LS for the Lions?

Pappy

Iron Shiek
04-30-2009, 04:17 PM
Piotr Czech, 6'5" 210 lbs.?

If he doesn't work out as a kicker, do you think the Pens could try him out as a defenseman?

That's a hockey name if I ever heard one.

Can he play center?

Oviedo
04-30-2009, 04:19 PM
Shipley said the other night he did quite a bit of long snapping in practice but not in games at PSU

steelers43
04-30-2009, 04:20 PM
You're a PSU fan. Did he ever LS for the Lions?

Pappy

Not that I recall although I am not as close to the program anymore since I moved out west.

RuthlessBurgher
04-30-2009, 04:35 PM
Piotr Czech, 6'5" 210 lbs.?

If he doesn't work out as a kicker, do you think the Pens could try him out as a defenseman?

That's a hockey name if I ever heard one.

Can he play center?

If he can't play Mansfield/Webster/Dawson center, we'll give him a shot at Crosby/Malkin/Staal center. At 6'5", he is pretty tall, but I don't see him as tall enough to make it as a Shaq/Olajuwon/Ewing center.

AkronSteel
04-30-2009, 05:58 PM
:Clap

Shaun McDonald is a heck of a pickup!! He will be a nice option in the slot and will contribute more that most expect. He is a solid route runner with nice hands and will make an immediate contribution!!! He is a much better option than Ashley Lelie!!! Great job Colbert way to pick up another Lion castoff that will come in and contribute to the Steelers world championship defense!!!

steelers43
04-30-2009, 06:01 PM
Route running isn't 'a big need for our receivers. It's not like Ben hits them promptly out of cuts or timing throws. They have plenty of time to get open while Ben dances around.

RuthlessBurgher
04-30-2009, 09:03 PM
I'm surprised I haven't seen the obligatory "Colbert signs another crappy Lion castoff" post in regards to McDonald yet.

Mel Blount's G
04-30-2009, 10:21 PM
Route running isn't 'a big need for our receivers. It's not like Ben hits them promptly out of cuts or timing throws. They have plenty of time to get open while Ben dances around.
Your argument that route running isn't important (because Ben doesn't hit them anyway) assumes all routes are quick ones requiring a prompt throw. I would disagree with that assumption.

Also, regardless if Ben is accurate with his throws or in synch w/ his receivers' breaks or not, route running is important because when done well, it will give a receiver separation from his defender.

So, I'm guessing you just said that to get a dig in on Ben?

steelers43
04-30-2009, 10:25 PM
Route running isn't 'a big need for our receivers. It's not like Ben hits them promptly out of cuts or timing throws. They have plenty of time to get open while Ben dances around.
Your argument that route running isn't important (because Ben doesn't hit them anyway) assumes all routes are quick ones requiring a prompt throw. I would disagree with that assumption.

Also, regardless if Ben is accurate with his throws or in synch w/ his receivers' breaks or not, route running is important because when done well, it will give a receiver separation from his defender.

So, I'm guessing you just said that to get a dig in on Ben?

It was a tongue in cheek comment that you took literally.

Ben's a great QB and a winner but nobody who knows anything doesn't think he can be smarter and know the game better and react faster.

steelers43
04-30-2009, 10:26 PM
I'm surprised I haven't seen the obligatory "Colbert signs another crappy Lion castoff" post in regards to McDonald yet.

I have nothing against MacDonald but if he makes it and we cut a promising rookie, I will be ticked. He has no upside.

The thing that bothers me most is that we needed to sign him. Sweed must not be trusted yet.

papillon
04-30-2009, 10:37 PM
I'm surprised I haven't seen the obligatory "Colbert signs another crappy Lion castoff" post in regards to McDonald yet.

I have nothing against MacDonald but if he makes it and we cut a promising rookie, I will be ticked. He has no upside.

I agree, don't lose a rookie with potential over a player who is at his ceiling. If he can make the team and some of the rookies just don't have it, that's fine.

The thing that bothers me most is that we needed to sign him. Sweed must not be trusted yet.

The Steelers really don't have any way of knowing if Sweed is ready or not. They know he's inconsistent, they know he doesn't give up on a play or himself after a gaffe and they know and, hopefully, corrected the feigning injury after missing a perfectly thrown ball.

Ben will go a long way to making Sweed the player we all hope he will be by not giving up on him and continuing to get him the ball.


Pappy

steelers43
04-30-2009, 10:42 PM
I'm surprised I haven't seen the obligatory "Colbert signs another crappy Lion castoff" post in regards to McDonald yet.

I have nothing against MacDonald but if he makes it and we cut a promising rookie, I will be ticked. He has no upside.

I agree, don't lose a rookie with potential over a player who is at his ceiling. If he can make the team and some of the rookies just don't have it, that's fine.

The thing that bothers me most is that we needed to sign him. Sweed must not be trusted yet.

The Steelers really don't have any way of knowing if Sweed is ready or not. They know he's inconsistent, they know he doesn't give up on a play or himself after a gaffe and they know and, hopefully, corrected the feigning injury after missing a perfectly thrown ball.

Ben will go a long way to making Sweed the player we all hope he will be by not giving up on him and continuing to get him the ball.


Pappy

We'll see. Ben hasn't exactly made our receivers better. It's been the other way around mostly. If Ben had more timing and accuracy on his deep ball, we'd be blowing more teams out. How many times did you see a receiver break open only to have to slow up for the ball as Ben hesitated or underthew it?

stlrz d
04-30-2009, 11:24 PM
I'm surprised I haven't seen the obligatory "Colbert signs another crappy Lion castoff" post in regards to McDonald yet.

I have nothing against MacDonald but if he makes it and we cut a promising rookie, I will be ticked. He has no upside.

I agree, don't lose a rookie with potential over a player who is at his ceiling. If he can make the team and some of the rookies just don't have it, that's fine.

The thing that bothers me most is that we needed to sign him. Sweed must not be trusted yet.

The Steelers really don't have any way of knowing if Sweed is ready or not. They know he's inconsistent, they know he doesn't give up on a play or himself after a gaffe and they know and, hopefully, corrected the feigning injury after missing a perfectly thrown ball.

Ben will go a long way to making Sweed the player we all hope he will be by not giving up on him and continuing to get him the ball.


Pappy

We'll see. Ben hasn't exactly made our receivers better. It's been the other way around mostly. If Ben had more timing and accuracy on his deep ball, we'd be blowing more teams out. How many times did you see a receiver break open only to have to slow up for the ball as Ben hesitated or underthew it?

He was playing with an injured throwing shoulder for most of the season. Towards the end of the season his shoulder was finally healthy and the difference was quite obvious.

steelers43
04-30-2009, 11:29 PM
I'm surprised I haven't seen the obligatory "Colbert signs another crappy Lion castoff" post in regards to McDonald yet.

I have nothing against MacDonald but if he makes it and we cut a promising rookie, I will be ticked. He has no upside.

I agree, don't lose a rookie with potential over a player who is at his ceiling. If he can make the team and some of the rookies just don't have it, that's fine.

The thing that bothers me most is that we needed to sign him. Sweed must not be trusted yet.

The Steelers really don't have any way of knowing if Sweed is ready or not. They know he's inconsistent, they know he doesn't give up on a play or himself after a gaffe and they know and, hopefully, corrected the feigning injury after missing a perfectly thrown ball.

Ben will go a long way to making Sweed the player we all hope he will be by not giving up on him and continuing to get him the ball.


Pappy

We'll see. Ben hasn't exactly made our receivers better. It's been the other way around mostly. If Ben had more timing and accuracy on his deep ball, we'd be blowing more teams out. How many times did you see a receiver break open only to have to slow up for the ball as Ben hesitated or underthew it?

He was playing with an injured throwing shoulder for most of the season. Towards the end of the season his shoulder was finally healthy and the difference was quite obvious.

He's always banged up and much of it is his own fault. If he played smarter, he'd be even better and healthier.

stlrz d
04-30-2009, 11:31 PM
Yeah, it was his own fault that fat bastard from the Browns put his helmet into his injured shoulder well after the ball was gone. :roll:

Mel Blount's G
04-30-2009, 11:32 PM
nobody who knows anything doesn't think
Yeah but anybody who knows nothing does think








Just razzin, believe it or not I think I comprehend what you're trying to say

steelers43
04-30-2009, 11:34 PM
Yeah, it was his own fault that fat bastard from the Browns put his helmet into his injured shoulder well after the ball was gone. :roll:


and the years before that?

Those like you who stick their heads in the sand and think Ben can't improve clearly won't understand.

There's a reason Peyton stays healthy.

stlrz d
04-30-2009, 11:35 PM
Show me where I ever said he couldn't improve.

I'll wait...a loooooooooooong time. Because you won't find it.

steelers43
04-30-2009, 11:39 PM
Show me where I ever said he couldn't improve.

I'll wait...a loooooooooooong time. Because you won't find it.

Then you agree, he'd be hurt less if he played smarter.

His deep ball has ALWAYS been a problem. Much of it is his hesitation and double pumping when not needed. Translation, football smarts.

Mel Blount's G
04-30-2009, 11:39 PM
He's always banged up and much of it is his own fault. If he played smarter, he'd be even better and healthier.
Well, since we're going to throw wild speculations out there, if he played smarter we may be without those last two lombardi's (one more than Peyton has I might add).
.

steelers43
04-30-2009, 11:40 PM
He's always banged up and much of it is his own fault. If he played smarter, he'd be even better and healthier.
Well, since we're going to throw wild speculations out there, if he played smarter we may be without those last two lombardi's (one

more than Peyton has I might add).
.

Or have 3?

Mel Blount's G
04-30-2009, 11:50 PM
43:

His long ball accuracy needs improvement. Yes

He, at times, needs to get rid of the ball quicker thereby avoiding injury and/or turnovers. Yes

Peyton and Brady do these things better. Yes.



However, beyond being a QB, Ben is a football player. Pass, punt, tackle, block.....whatever it takes to WIN.

Brady & Manning do NOT do these things. They are stat-stacking, skilled and accurate qb's, not pure football players willing to do anything it takes to win.

In sum, give me Ben with his inaccurate long ball and his potential for injury because of his play-extending attempts over the highly skilled fantasy wet dream QB's

steelers43
05-01-2009, 12:03 AM
43:

His long ball accuracy needs improvement. Yes

He, at times, needs to get rid of the ball quicker thereby avoiding injury and/or turnovers. Yes

Peyton and Brady do these things better. Yes.



However, beyond being a QB, Ben is a football player. Pass, punt, tackle, block.....whatever it takes to WIN.

Brady & Manning do NOT do these things. They are stat-stacking, skilled and accurate qb's, not pure football players willing to do anything it takes to win.

In sum, give me Ben with his inaccurate long ball and his potential for injury because of his play-extending attempts over the highly skilled fantasy wet dream QB's

Did I ever say I want to get rid of Ben? I want him to improve in the mental part of the game. All of the "Peyton/Brady aren't football player" comments I do not agree with. Because they play smart, they are penalized now? If the teams were reversed and we had Peyton, Indy had Ben, you'd likely have the exact opposite opinion and be ripping Ben.

Mel Blount's G
05-01-2009, 12:24 AM
43:

His long ball accuracy needs improvement. Yes

He, at times, needs to get rid of the ball quicker thereby avoiding injury and/or turnovers. Yes

Peyton and Brady do these things better. Yes.



However, beyond being a QB, Ben is a football player. Pass, punt, tackle, block.....whatever it takes to WIN.

Brady & Manning do NOT do these things. They are stat-stacking, skilled and accurate qb's, not pure football players willing to do anything it takes to win.

In sum, give me Ben with his inaccurate long ball and his potential for injury because of his play-extending attempts over the highly skilled fantasy wet dream QB's

Did I ever say I want to get rid of Ben? I want him to improve in the mental part of the game. All of the "Peyton/Brady aren't football player" comments I do not agree with. Because they play smart, they are penalized now? If the teams were reversed and we had Peyton, Indy had Ben, you'd likely have the exact opposite opinion and be ripping Ben.
I never said you wanted to get rid of Ben. In fact, I agreed he has room for improvement. I never "penalized" anybody. I said what I prefer and what I believe. We obviously differ on what a "smart" qb is. I surely don't expect complete agreement on my personal opinions (like my belief that peyton and brady are less pure football players than Ben is). That's okay by me.

And please refrain from assuming you know what I'd do or say in any given scenario.

Oviedo
05-01-2009, 07:51 AM
43:

His long ball accuracy needs improvement. Yes

He, at times, needs to get rid of the ball quicker thereby avoiding injury and/or turnovers. Yes

Peyton and Brady do these things better. Yes.



However, beyond being a QB, Ben is a football player. Pass, punt, tackle, block.....whatever it takes to WIN.

Brady & Manning do NOT do these things. They are stat-stacking, skilled and accurate qb's, not pure football players willing to do anything it takes to win.

In sum, give me Ben with his inaccurate long ball and his potential for injury because of his play-extending attempts over the highly skilled fantasy wet dream QB's

I would agree with you. Ben can improve like all professionals who need to become better at what they do every year until physically they can't.

The biggest improvement in Ben's game which would open so much more up to him is to just realize that a quick, 8 yard completion to a TE or RB that you connect on 80% of the time can cumulatively be just as effective as a 40 yard completion to a WR that you connect on 25% of the time.

RuthlessBurgher
05-01-2009, 09:37 AM
I'm surprised I haven't seen the obligatory "Colbert signs another crappy Lion castoff" post in regards to McDonald yet.

I have nothing against MacDonald but if he makes it and we cut a promising rookie, I will be ticked. He has no upside.

The thing that bothers me most is that we needed to sign him. Sweed must not be trusted yet.

The Steelers aren't going to cut Mike Wallace coming out of training camp because they signed Shaun McDonald. I don't recall any time when we cut any 3rd round pick in his rookie training camp. We have done it with a 4th round WR's before, though (Danny Farmer and Fred Gibson). But that was because those particular guys sucked out loud.

If we keep McDonald (220 catches for 2490 yards and 11 TD's in his career) and cut Dallas Baker (1 catch for 6 yards in his career) or Martin Nance (4 catches for 33 yards in his career), I will not lose any sleep. Especially since McDonald is a relatively young veteran (Nance is 25, Baker is 26, and McDonald is 27).

RuthlessBurgher
05-01-2009, 10:00 AM
He's always banged up and much of it is his own fault. If he played smarter, he'd be even better and healthier.
Well, since we're going to throw wild speculations out there, if he played smarter we may be without those last two lombardi's (one

more than Peyton has I might add).
.

Or have 3?

Well, let's look at the 3 seasons in Ben's career in which he did not go home with a ring to see if "smart" QB's like Peyton or Brady would have done any better under the circumstances.

Although he had a remarkable run as a rookie winning 13 games and losing none in the regular season, it would be somewhat unreasonable to expect a rookie QB to lead his team to a Super Bowl victory. We got more out of him that season than anyone had a right to expect. (By comparison, Peyton Manning went 3-13 as a rookie starter).

It would also be hard to expect him to lead the team to a Super Bowl victory following his motorcycle accident, his appendectomy, his concussion, Cowher's somewhat lax approach at defending the Super Bowl title with one foot already out the door, etc. There are very few people that could have come back from all of those injuries to play at all that season. (The only somewhat similar display of toughness was Anquan Boldin this past season who came back to play after getting his face surgically rebuilt, but even those injuries do not compare to the overall magnitude of what Ben went through that year. I can't imagine Peyton or Brady playing a football game a few short months after headbutting a Chrysler).

The one year that you could have expected him to possibly lead this team to a Super Bowl title when he did not was in his best statistical season of 2007 (264-404 for 3,154 yds, 32 TD, 11 INT, 65.3% passing, 104.1 QB rating). Although Ben had a poor first half in the playoff game against the Jags, you can't argue with the fact that he did everything in his power to bring this team back, with 3 TD drives in the 4th quarter to take the lead. The defense and special teams coverage units had as much to do with that loss as Ben. (It was a similar 4th quarter display to what Brady has done on numerous occasions. Do you think Tom could have done any better than Ben's three 4th quarter TD drives, especially since Brady's specialty is leading his team to 4th quarter FG drives instead of TD drives?).

You simply cannot minimize Ben's accomplishments at this point in his career. Sure, he can improve as a player; he even admits as much himself. But looking back at his first 5 seasons...it is nothing short of remarkable.

papillon
05-01-2009, 10:07 AM
It will be interesting to see how this version of the Steelers responds to being the Super Bowl champs (under Tomlin) and compare it to the the 2006 version (under Cowher). The schedule is setting nicely for a good run. The question remains: How will the team prepare and will they be able to avoid the injury bug?

I believe that the veterans are going to be a little more on edge this season than they were under Cowher. Tomlin doesn't appear to pamper the veterans in a similar fashion to Cowher.

Pappy

stlrz d
05-01-2009, 10:09 AM
Am I the only one who finds it laughable that some toker on a message board is questioning Ben's football intelligence? :lol:

RuthlessBurgher
05-01-2009, 10:10 AM
It will be interesting to see how this version of the Steelers responds to being the Super Bowl champs (under Tomlin) and compare it to the the 2006 version (under Cowher). The schedule is setting nicely for a good run. The question remains: How will the team prepare and will they be able to avoid the injury bug?

I believe that the veterans are going to be a little more on edge this season than they were under Cowher. Tomlin doesn't appear to pamper the veterans in a similar fashion to Cowher.

Pappy

The only benefits he gives the vets are smart ones to keep them fresh (like holding guys that have been around the block more than a few times like Hines and Deshea out of practice on Wednesday to give their bodies extra time to heal).

Oviedo
05-01-2009, 10:33 AM
It will be interesting to see how this version of the Steelers responds to being the Super Bowl champs (under Tomlin) and compare it to the the 2006 version (under Cowher). The schedule is setting nicely for a good run. The question remains: How will the team prepare and will they be able to avoid the injury bug?

I believe that the veterans are going to be a little more on edge this season than they were under Cowher. Tomlin doesn't appear to pamper the veterans in a similar fashion to Cowher.

Pappy

In other words you are saying that Tomlin will not act like winning one Super Bowl is the culmination of his career and he will actually try to win more and put in the ffort and make the decisions to put his team in position to win more.

Wow what a concept. Wish another coach had felt the same way a few years ago.

steelers43
05-01-2009, 10:53 AM
It will be interesting to see how this version of the Steelers responds to being the Super Bowl champs (under Tomlin) and compare it to the the 2006 version (under Cowher). The schedule is setting nicely for a good run. The question remains: How will the team prepare and will they be able to avoid the injury bug?

I believe that the veterans are going to be a little more on edge this season than they were under Cowher. Tomlin doesn't appear to pamper the veterans in a similar fashion to Cowher.

Pappy

In other words you are saying that Tomlin will not act like winning one Super Bowl is the culmination of his career and he will actually try to win more and put in the ffort and make the decisions to put his team in position to win more.

Wow what a concept. Wish another coach had felt the same way a few years ago.

Cowher didn't want to win another one? More like motorcycle Ben ruined the hope of that but let's not let reality or honesty get in the way of some good Cowher bashing.

steelers43
05-01-2009, 10:54 AM
Am I the only one who finds it laughable that some toker on a message board is questioning Ben's football intelligence? :lol:

Am I the only one who is bored by your lack of intelligence and originality?

steelers43
05-01-2009, 10:55 AM
It will be interesting to see how this version of the Steelers responds to being the Super Bowl champs (under Tomlin) and compare it to the the 2006 version (under Cowher). The schedule is setting nicely for a good run. The question remains: How will the team prepare and will they be able to avoid the injury bug?

I believe that the veterans are going to be a little more on edge this season than they were under Cowher. Tomlin doesn't appear to pamper the veterans in a similar fashion to Cowher.

Pappy

That depends. To do a true comparison, Ben would have to wreck again and ruin team morale and hope in midseason.

steelers43
05-01-2009, 10:58 AM
He's always banged up and much of it is his own fault. If he played smarter, he'd be even better and healthier.
Well, since we're going to throw wild speculations out there, if he played smarter we may be without those last two lombardi's (one

more than Peyton has I might add).
.

Or have 3?

Well, let's look at the 3 seasons in Ben's career in which he did not go home with a ring to see if "smart" QB's like Peyton or Brady would have done any better under the circumstances.

Although he had a remarkable run as a rookie winning 13 games and losing none in the regular season, it would be somewhat unreasonable to expect a rookie QB to lead his team to a Super Bowl victory. We got more out of him that season than anyone had a right to expect. (By comparison, Peyton Manning went 3-13 as a rookie starter).

It would also be hard to expect him to lead the team to a Super Bowl victory following his motorcycle accident, his appendectomy, his concussion, Cowher's somewhat lax approach at defending the Super Bowl title with one foot already out the door, etc. There are very few people that could have come back from all of those injuries to play at all that season. (The only somewhat similar display of toughness was Anquan Boldin this past season who came back to play after getting his face surgically rebuilt, but even those injuries do not compare to the overall magnitude of what Ben went through that year. I can't imagine Peyton or Brady playing a football game a few short months after headbutting a Chrysler).

The one year that you could have expected him to possibly lead this team to a Super Bowl title when he did not was in his best statistical season of 2007 (264-404 for 3,154 yds, 32 TD, 11 INT, 65.3% passing, 104.1 QB rating). Although Ben had a poor first half in the playoff game against the Jags, you can't argue with the fact that he did everything in his power to bring this team back, with 3 TD drives in the 4th quarter to take the lead. The defense and special teams coverage units had as much to do with that loss as Ben. (It was a similar 4th quarter display to what Brady has done on numerous occasions. Do you think Tom could have done any better than Ben's three 4th quarter TD drives, especially since Brady's specialty is leading his team to 4th quarter FG drives instead of TD drives?).

You simply cannot minimize Ben's accomplishments at this point in his career. Sure, he can improve as a player; he even admits as much himself. But looking back at his first 5 seasons...it is nothing short of remarkable.


Blaming Cowher for 2006 shows me all I need to see from you. Ben killed morale and hope for the team with his accident. Blame noone but him.

As far as minimalizing his accomplishments, I do not. He's a great QB but that doesn't mean he can't improve or play smarter.

ikestops85
05-01-2009, 11:04 AM
Don't you just love message boards ... it's like we all spent the night at the Holiday Inn Express. :wink:

papillon
05-01-2009, 11:06 AM
It will be interesting to see how this version of the Steelers responds to being the Super Bowl champs (under Tomlin) and compare it to the the 2006 version (under Cowher). The schedule is setting nicely for a good run. The question remains: How will the team prepare and will they be able to avoid the injury bug?

I believe that the veterans are going to be a little more on edge this season than they were under Cowher. Tomlin doesn't appear to pamper the veterans in a similar fashion to Cowher.

Pappy

In other words you are saying that Tomlin will not act like winning one Super Bowl is the culmination of his career and he will actually try to win more and put in the ffort and make the decisions to put his team in position to win more.

Wow what a concept. Wish another coach had felt the same way a few years ago.

No, I'm not saying that at all. What I am saying is that Cowher and Tomlin appear to have different approaches to a football season. It will be interesting to see if the Steelers can avoid the Super Bowl hangover this time. It will also be a tremendous help if none of the players get hurt whether it be on their own time, during a game or in practice.

I don't believe for one minute that Bill Cowher took the 2006 season for granted, even though he probably knew it was his last as a Steeler coach. He was too intense a personality to allow that to happen. There was a confluence of events (most of them involving Ben) that doomed that year.

Pappy

stlrz d
05-01-2009, 11:25 AM
Am I the only one who finds it laughable that some toker on a message board is questioning Ben's football intelligence? :lol:

Am I the only one who is bored by your lack of intelligence and originality?

Perhaps if you weren't so stoned you wouldn't be.

And conversely, if I were stoned maybe I'd actually find value in your contributions.

steelers43
05-01-2009, 11:26 AM
[quote="stlrz d":27bbhdh0]Am I the only one who finds it laughable that some toker on a message board is questioning Ben's football intelligence? :lol:

Am I the only one who is bored by your lack of intelligence and originality?

Perhaps if you weren't so stoned you wouldn't be.

And conversely, if I were stoned maybe I'd actually find value in your contributions.[/quote:27bbhdh0]

Great, we have another Crash clone.

RuthlessBurgher
05-01-2009, 12:16 PM
He's always banged up and much of it is his own fault. If he played smarter, he'd be even better and healthier.
Well, since we're going to throw wild speculations out there, if he played smarter we may be without those last two lombardi's (one

more than Peyton has I might add).
.

Or have 3?

Well, let's look at the 3 seasons in Ben's career in which he did not go home with a ring to see if "smart" QB's like Peyton or Brady would have done any better under the circumstances.

Although he had a remarkable run as a rookie winning 13 games and losing none in the regular season, it would be somewhat unreasonable to expect a rookie QB to lead his team to a Super Bowl victory. We got more out of him that season than anyone had a right to expect. (By comparison, Peyton Manning went 3-13 as a rookie starter).

It would also be hard to expect him to lead the team to a Super Bowl victory following his motorcycle accident, his appendectomy, his concussion, Cowher's somewhat lax approach at defending the Super Bowl title with one foot already out the door, etc. There are very few people that could have come back from all of those injuries to play at all that season. (The only somewhat similar display of toughness was Anquan Boldin this past season who came back to play after getting his face surgically rebuilt, but even those injuries do not compare to the overall magnitude of what Ben went through that year. I can't imagine Peyton or Brady playing a football game a few short months after headbutting a Chrysler).

The one year that you could have expected him to possibly lead this team to a Super Bowl title when he did not was in his best statistical season of 2007 (264-404 for 3,154 yds, 32 TD, 11 INT, 65.3% passing, 104.1 QB rating). Although Ben had a poor first half in the playoff game against the Jags, you can't argue with the fact that he did everything in his power to bring this team back, with 3 TD drives in the 4th quarter to take the lead. The defense and special teams coverage units had as much to do with that loss as Ben. (It was a similar 4th quarter display to what Brady has done on numerous occasions. Do you think Tom could have done any better than Ben's three 4th quarter TD drives, especially since Brady's specialty is leading his team to 4th quarter FG drives instead of TD drives?).

You simply cannot minimize Ben's accomplishments at this point in his career. Sure, he can improve as a player; he even admits as much himself. But looking back at his first 5 seasons...it is nothing short of remarkable.


Blaming Cowher for 2006 shows me all I need to see from you. Ben killed morale and hope for the team with his accident. Blame noone but him.

As far as minimalizing his accomplishments, I do not. He's a great QB but that doesn't mean he can't improve or play smarter.

If you bothered to read what I wrote, Cowher's post-Super-Bowl-hangover/looking-forward-to-early-retirement was reason #4 that I gave for our poor 2006 season behind Ben's crash, appendectomy, and in-season concussion. That sure sounds like blaming no one but Cowher to me.

papillon
05-01-2009, 12:29 PM
It will be interesting to see how this version of the Steelers responds to being the Super Bowl champs (under Tomlin) and compare it to the the 2006 version (under Cowher). The schedule is setting nicely for a good run. The question remains: How will the team prepare and will they be able to avoid the injury bug?

I believe that the veterans are going to be a little more on edge this season than they were under Cowher. Tomlin doesn't appear to pamper the veterans in a similar fashion to Cowher.

Pappy

That depends. To do a true comparison, Ben would have to wreck again and ruin team morale and hope in midseason.

I don't believe the wreck ruined team morale that season. It probably galvanized the team to support Ben after his near death accident. I would have liked to see him make a better decision about wearing or not wearing a helmet in this case when riding a crotch rocket around town on his way to practice.

Pappy