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anger 82&95
04-29-2009, 06:31 AM
http://www.timesonline.com/articles/200 ... 775488.txt (http://www.timesonline.com/articles/2009/04/28/sports/steelers/doc49f7d22f2e3f3823775488.txt)

“The transaction is not yet official, but the Steelers and Larry Foote are parting ways.

The company line from team headquarters is that Foote has yet to be released. But it’s only a matter of time.

After all, it’s time for Lawrence Timmons to be an every-down player.

It’s time for Timmons to start, and the only option is at Foote’s spot at right inside linebacker.

Timmons was a first-round pick in the 2007 draft. He’s such an athlete ... quick, agile and explosive.

Last year as a 22-year-old second-year pro, he showed flashes of brilliance as a role player. But now, Timmons must play somewhere on a full-time basis.

Although he’s best suited at outside linebacker, Timmons is not going to unseat James Harrison or LaMarr Woodley. Unquestionably, those two make up the NFL’s most fearsome and productive set of outside ‘backers.

Timmons is also not going to unseat left inside linebacker James Farrior, an amazing athlete who played so well last year at age 33.

So, the odd man out is Foote.

From Foote’s perspective, he knew this was coming. He even talked about a demotion before the start of the 2008 season.

That’s why Foote asked for his release or a trade right after the Super Bowl. He knew his remarkable streak of 91 straight starts — the longest of any current Steeler — would end Sept. 10 when the Steelers open the 2009 season.

Timmons is already penciled in as a starter.

Because of deficient coverage skills, Foote rarely was on the field in nickel and dime packages on obvious passing downs. But he’s been tremendous against the run.

He was also one of the best teammates a player could have. He added so much to team chemistry. Everyone liked and respected him.

Reporters always flocked to his locker during the week at practice and after games to get his perspective on things.

Foote was a true warrior in many ways. He was good enough to start on two Super Bowl teams.

Yet, pro football is a business, so it makes perfect business sense for the Steelers and Foote to sever ties.

Foote is due to make $2.885 million this year. Timmons’ base salary is just $460,000.

Do the math.

With the Steelers struggling to stay under the $127 million salary cap, they’re looking at all kind of ways to make ends meet. One way to is unload a backup making close to $3 million.

Foote, who turns 29 on June 12, believes he has the skills to still be an NFL starter. That’s why he wants out of Pittsburgh. He knows it won’t happen here.

Not with Timmons waiting to unleash his full potential.”

Oviedo
04-29-2009, 08:00 AM
Maybe the aythor doesn't relize that Foote was a "Bill Cowher type player" which makes him better than a "Tomlin grits players." The fact that Foote was a major liability in pass coverage in a league that passes the ball more and more has nothing to do with anything.

papillon
04-29-2009, 10:00 AM
It appears that the days of veterans playing because they are veterans is over. How many productive years did James Harrison miss because of Clark freakin Haggans?

Pappy

Oviedo
04-29-2009, 10:21 AM
It appears that the days of veterans playing because they are veterans is over. How many productive years did James Harrison miss because of Clark freakin Haggans?

Pappy

What a concept: Talent winning out over seniority. It is starting to sound like a coaching staff that wants to win multiple Super Bowls not just compete periodically.

Mel Blount's G
04-29-2009, 11:43 AM
Whatever the case, we will find out this year, definitively, how good and/or justified Timmons is as a starting ILB for the World Champion Pittsburgh Steelers. All questions, concerns and doubts will be answered/confirmed/put to rest regarding: Timmons ability to play stout against the run, his ability to get to the QB on pass play blitzes despite RB attempts to neutralize him in those situations (the two major criticisms against him) and if he has the mastery of bad word's team-d system ala' Mr. Foote. I think it's safe to assume that we've all seen that he is great in midfield-ish pass coverage and that his pursuit ability, be it in run or pass situations, is absolutely above average for a linebacker (especially an inside LB). I'm excited and will eat crow I guess if/when Timmons turns in an all-pro-ish display this year as I have vaguely suggested that he has not lived up to 1st round expectations

fordfixer
04-29-2009, 12:16 PM
the World Champion Pittsburgh Steelers.


Man I love how that sounds :tt1 :tt1 :tt1

RuthlessBurgher
04-29-2009, 12:16 PM
the World Champion Pittsburgh Steelers.


Man I love how that sounds :tt1 :tt1 :tt1

Never gets old, does it? :D

fordfixer
04-29-2009, 12:18 PM
the World Champion Pittsburgh Steelers.


Man I love how that sounds :tt1 :tt1 :tt1

Never gets old, does it? :D


no :lol: :tt1

papillon
04-29-2009, 12:23 PM
Whatever the case, we will find out this year, definitively, how good and/or justified Timmons is as a starting ILB for the World Champion Pittsburgh Steelers. All questions, concerns and doubts will be answered/confirmed/put to rest regarding: Timmons ability to play stout against the run, his ability to get to the QB on pass play blitzes despite RB attempts to neutralize him in those situations (the two major criticisms against him) and if he has the mastery of bad word's team-d system ala' Mr. Foote. I think it's safe to assume that we've all seen that he is great in midfield-ish pass coverage and that his pursuit ability, be it in run or pass situations, is absolutely above average for a linebacker (especially an inside LB). I'm excited and will eat crow I guess if/when Timmons turns in an all-pro-ish display this year as I have vaguely suggested that he has not lived up to 1st round expectations

I don't know if he has to be an All-Pro to be a good first round pick. If Timmons can hold down the ILB position until Harrison runs out of gas and then move outside to replace Harrison that would be awesome and preferable. He probably isn't cut out to be an ILB, but, I believe he'll be good enough for a few years until we can move him to his natural position.

Pappy

ramblinjim
04-29-2009, 12:27 PM
Best of luck to Larry, he's been a h3ll of a Steeler, no knock against him. Timmons is a borderline freak of nature athlete and hopefully he'll stout up a bit against the run.

Pappy, your comment about Harrison behind Haggans makes me sick to think of what our pass rush could have been those couple of years, good call.

RuthlessBurgher
04-29-2009, 12:43 PM
Bottom Line:

Timmons is an athletic ILB next to the steady Farrior with Harrison and Woodley bringing the heat from the outside just like Chad Brown was an athletic ILB next to the steady Levon Kirkland with Greg Lloyd and Kevin Greene bringing the heat from the outside.

feltdizz
04-29-2009, 02:13 PM
It appears that the days of veterans playing because they are veterans is over. How many productive years did James Harrison miss because of Clark freakin Haggans?

Pappy


I would have liked to see if Harrison could have been that guy a little earlier as well...

but he admitted he wasn't there mentally for years.. he could have had a big meltdown or gone the Kendrell Bell route.

True Fan
04-29-2009, 02:23 PM
Best of luck to Larry, he's been a h3ll of a Steeler, no knock against him. Timmons is a borderline freak of nature athlete and hopefully he'll stout up a bit against the run.

Pappy, your comment about Harrison behind Haggans makes me sick to think of what our pass rush could have been those couple of years, good call.

or our pass rush woodley's first year if he was allowed to play

stlrz d
04-29-2009, 09:12 PM
Bottom Line:

Timmons is an athletic ILB next to the steady Farrior with Harrison and Woodley bringing the heat from the outside just like Chad Brown was an athletic ILB next to the steady Levon Kirkland with Greg Lloyd and Kevin Greene bringing the heat from the outside.

I was thinking of this same comparison and I only hope that we can find a run-stuffing, eventual replacement for Farrior so we'll have that combo again.

flippy
04-30-2009, 11:15 AM
Why does Timmons have to play the run well?

Why can't he just blitz from all over the place and cover RBs, TEs, and WRs?

Timmons is a freak.

He's scary quick.

He's the other defender besides Troy that coaches will have to game plan around.

He'll get attention that will help other players get more sacks and cover more field in the secondary.

RuthlessBurgher
04-30-2009, 11:43 AM
Why does Timmons have to play the run well?

Why can't he just blitz from all over the place and cover RBs, TEs, and WRs?

Timmons is a freak.

He's scary quick.

He's the other defender besides Troy that coaches will have to game plan around.

He'll get attention that will help other players get more sacks and cover more field in the secondary.

Playing the run well is pretty much job #1 for an ILB. Those other things are great, and they are what separates him from guys like Foote, but playing the run well is an absolutely vital part of his job description. I don't doubt that he will be able to become a solid player vs. the run in addition to being a weapon as a sack artist and in coverage.

Mel Blount's G
04-30-2009, 11:53 AM
Why does Timmons have to play the run well?

Because if he does not play the run well then other teams may run the ball well. And that would be detrimental to our goal of getting the opposition's offense off of the field


Why can't he just blitz from all over the place and cover RBs, TEs, and WRs?

Because he also needs to be responsible for stuffing run plays (see above)


Timmons is a freak.

He's scary quick.

He's the other defender besides Troy that coaches will have to game plan around.

I do not believe a team has ever game planned around Timmons - yet. That will hopefully change this year if his freakishness is exhibited consistently. But, he'll need to exhibit it on a regular basis. Also, if he can't stuff the run, then other teams may successfully game plan around him by running right at him


He'll get attention that will help other players get more sacks and cover more field in the secondary.
see above comment

NorthCoast
05-02-2009, 09:24 AM
Best of luck to Larry, he's been a h3ll of a Steeler, no knock against him. Timmons is a borderline freak of nature athlete and hopefully he'll stout up a bit against the run.

Pappy, your comment about Harrison behind Haggans makes me sick to think of what our pass rush could have been those couple of years, good call.

That's my concern as well. Timmons needs to get more stout at holding the point of attack. He is a freak in coverage and open space, just concerned about his run-stuffing (not that Foote's was anything awesome).

BTW, balancing new and vet talent is a lot trickier than you might realize. You have to be able to do this all the while maintaining a cohesive team chemistry....it can't be done willy-nilly. How many think we would cut Hines Ward if we were able to sign Anquan Boldin? It won't happen. The skills of the coaching staff in sensing a team's chemistry is often overlooked and one reason why the Cowboys are what they are today. I think and hope that Tomlin knows this.

steelblood
05-02-2009, 09:36 AM
He has to stop the run or teams will target him.

steelz09
05-02-2009, 10:17 AM
He has to stop the run or teams will target him.

Agreed

The primary responsibility of an ILB is to fill the gaps and basically be a "tackling" machine. The DL in a 3-4 responsibility is to contain the blockers to allow for the ILB to make these tackles.

However, the hardest part of an ILB is to be able to "shift through the trash" of being inside, diagnose the play, and pursue.

He plays well in space, is an athletic freak, has awesome closing speed but as an ILB in a base 3-4 there may not be MUCH space. He must disengage blockers first and foremost.

If he can't do that, then teams with a power running game (especially Baltimore) will run the ball to his side, right up the middle and with success.

That's what worries me a little bit but I am optimistic that he has improved in that area.

steelcityrules!!
05-02-2009, 10:42 AM
I don't think he's a liability in the run game, it just isn't his biggest attribute. I'm having difficulties coming up with specific scenarios from last season where his play hindered us in the running game, so I would welcome that info from anyone on here. Are there specific situations in specific games where he was giving up chunks of yards on the ground?

def. not calling anyone out here, but apart from his pre-draft scouting report from 3 years ago when he was 20 years old, i can't remember that being a major knock on his game.

SteelCzar76
05-02-2009, 01:53 PM
I don't think he's a liability in the run game, it just isn't his biggest attribute. I'm having difficulties coming up with specific scenarios from last season where his play hindered us in the running game, so I would welcome that info from anyone on here. Are there specific situations in specific games where he was giving up chunks of yards on the ground?

def. not calling anyone out here, but apart from his pre-draft scouting report from 3 years ago when he was 20 years old, i can't remember that being a major knock on his game.

He (Timmons) was never put in the position to have to play the run at the position.(ILB) He would come in to drop into coverage or blitz the passer on third down,..specifically obvious passing 3rd downs, (never third and less than a yard) after Foote had done the "dirty work" on 1st and second.

In fact,..in the game that he started (against the Colts) in place of Woodley OUTSIDE, he registered 4 tackles and no sacks or "splash plays" in what just so happened to be one of our most pedestrian showings defensively all season long in terms of getting pressure on the QB and henceforth protecting our suspect secondary in terms of giving up points. (aside from the Titans game.)

But hey,..just because one lacks the strength, measurables and experience going all the way back to college to effectively play a position does not mean that they won't just be able to "turn it on" and become an all pro at that said position in the Pro's as long as the head Coach wants to have their baby, they are really "quick", really humble, and "Ordinary as a Bowl of Grits" ! :tt1 :tt1 :lol:

Slapstick
05-04-2009, 05:28 PM
Timmons is getting his job the same way James Harrison got his...

ramblinjim
05-04-2009, 05:36 PM
From what I have seen of our new coach, Timmons will not get the job of ILB just because he is a 1st round draft pick, he'll get the job because our coaching staff thinks he's going to play well there.

Tomlin got his ring year two, with non-Cowher players (Timmons, Harrison, Woodley, Gay) showing some serious potential; I'm giving him the benefit of the doubt that Timmons can play ILB. :Beer

AngryAsian
05-04-2009, 05:53 PM
I'll go on record... Timmons will record at least 10 sacks as a starting ILB.

RuthlessBurgher
05-04-2009, 06:49 PM
Timmons is getting his job the same way James Harrison got his...

"He Earned It" - John Houseman http://www.stephenbook.com/images/endorsements/housemna.jpg

steelcityrules!!
05-04-2009, 09:30 PM
I don't think he's a liability in the run game, it just isn't his biggest attribute. I'm having difficulties coming up with specific scenarios from last season where his play hindered us in the running game, so I would welcome that info from anyone on here. Are there specific situations in specific games where he was giving up chunks of yards on the ground?

def. not calling anyone out here, but apart from his pre-draft scouting report from 3 years ago when he was 20 years old, i can't remember that being a major knock on his game.

He (Timmons) was never put in the position to have to play the run at the position.(ILB) He would come in to drop into coverage or blitz the passer on third down,..specifically obvious passing 3rd downs, (never third and less than a yard) after Foote had done the "dirty work" on 1st and second.

In fact,..in the game that he started (against the Colts) in place of Woodley OUTSIDE, he registered 4 tackles and no sacks or "splash plays" in what just so happened to be one of our most pedestrian showings defensively all season long in terms of getting pressure on the QB and henceforth protecting our suspect secondary in terms of giving up points. (aside from the Titans game.)

But hey,..just because one lacks the strength, measurables and experience going all the way back to college to effectively play a position does not mean that they won't just be able to "turn it on" and become an all pro at that said position in the Pro's as long as the head Coach wants to have their baby, they are really "quick", really humble, and "Ordinary as a Bowl of Grits" ! :tt1 :tt1 :lol:


did you somehow segway negative comments about timmons instantly and seamlessly into a knock of our new #1 draft pick?

RuthlessBurgher
05-05-2009, 09:39 AM
[quote="steelcityrules!!":1a5531p3]I don't think he's a liability in the run game, it just isn't his biggest attribute. I'm having difficulties coming up with specific scenarios from last season where his play hindered us in the running game, so I would welcome that info from anyone on here. Are there specific situations in specific games where he was giving up chunks of yards on the ground?

def. not calling anyone out here, but apart from his pre-draft scouting report from 3 years ago when he was 20 years old, i can't remember that being a major knock on his game.

He (Timmons) was never put in the position to have to play the run at the position.(ILB) He would come in to drop into coverage or blitz the passer on third down,..specifically obvious passing 3rd downs, (never third and less than a yard) after Foote had done the "dirty work" on 1st and second.

In fact,..in the game that he started (against the Colts) in place of Woodley OUTSIDE, he registered 4 tackles and no sacks or "splash plays" in what just so happened to be one of our most pedestrian showings defensively all season long in terms of getting pressure on the QB and henceforth protecting our suspect secondary in terms of giving up points. (aside from the Titans game.)

But hey,..just because one lacks the strength, measurables and experience going all the way back to college to effectively play a position does not mean that they won't just be able to "turn it on" and become an all pro at that said position in the Pro's as long as the head Coach wants to have their baby, they are really "quick", really humble, and "Ordinary as a Bowl of Grits" ! :tt1 :tt1 :lol:


did you somehow segway negative comments about timmons instantly and seamlessly into a knock of our new #1 draft pick?[/quote:1a5531p3]

Didn't you know that if you were drafted under the Cowher regime you were great, but if you were drafted under the Tomlin regime you suck? I thought that was common knowledge by now. :?

Oviedo
05-05-2009, 10:20 AM
I'll go on record... Timmons will record at least 10 sacks as a starting ILB.

I agree and that dimension of what he can do will help Harrison and Woodley be even better. Foote gave you nothing in that respect.

I'll also add that Timmons grabs 3 INTs.

Oviedo
05-05-2009, 10:25 AM
[quote="steelcityrules!!":25jm9ctt]I don't think he's a liability in the run game, it just isn't his biggest attribute. I'm having difficulties coming up with specific scenarios from last season where his play hindered us in the running game, so I would welcome that info from anyone on here. Are there specific situations in specific games where he was giving up chunks of yards on the ground?

def. not calling anyone out here, but apart from his pre-draft scouting report from 3 years ago when he was 20 years old, i can't remember that being a major knock on his game.

He (Timmons) was never put in the position to have to play the run at the position.(ILB) He would come in to drop into coverage or blitz the passer on third down,..specifically obvious passing 3rd downs, (never third and less than a yard) after Foote had done the "dirty work" on 1st and second.

In fact,..in the game that he started (against the Colts) in place of Woodley OUTSIDE, he registered 4 tackles and no sacks or "splash plays" in what just so happened to be one of our most pedestrian showings defensively all season long in terms of getting pressure on the QB and henceforth protecting our suspect secondary in terms of giving up points. (aside from the Titans game.)

But hey,..just because one lacks the strength, measurables and experience going all the way back to college to effectively play a position does not mean that they won't just be able to "turn it on" and become an all pro at that said position in the Pro's as long as the head Coach wants to have their baby, they are really "quick", really humble, and "Ordinary as a Bowl of Grits" ! :tt1 :tt1 :lol:


did you somehow segway negative comments about timmons instantly and seamlessly into a knock of our new #1 draft pick?

Didn't you know that if you were drafted under the Cowher regime you were great, but if you were drafted under the Tomlin regime you suck? I thought that was common knowledge by now. :?[/quote:25jm9ctt]

It very much seems that way in some people's minds. You still get the impression that many posters are just laying in the weeds waiting for Tomlin to fall on his face. Since thye can't criticize his record as far as wins and championships they now criticize the players he has added. Of course they refrain from giving credit for Woodley or letting Harrison start as opposed to rotting behind Porter.

No matter what Timmons does he will be criticized. Seems the same is shaping up for Hood since he doesn't play Center.