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stlrz d
04-22-2009, 10:45 AM
If he's there at 1.32 they're not taking him. Not after Tomlin and Colbert both said character is more important to them than need. If this is true that is.

http://msn.foxsports.com/nfl/story/9483 ... ve-for-pot (http://msn.foxsports.com/nfl/story/9483382/Sources:-WRs-Harvin,-Tate-tested-positive-for-pot)


Sources: WRs Harvin, Tate tested positive for pot
by Alex Marvez
Updated: April 22, 2009, 7:16 AM EST

The draft stock of Percy Harvin and Brandon Tate may have taken a hit. (what a clever pun...not!)

Two sources told FOXSports.com that both wide receivers tested positive for marijuana in February at the NFL Scouting Combine in Indianapolis.

Before the test results became official, Harvin was considered a potential first-round pick after leaving the University of Florida following his junior season. Tate was projected as a first or second rounder after a solid college career at North Carolina.

Joel Segal, the agent who represents both players, didn't return messages seeking comment.

Harvin and Tate were the only high-profile players to flunk their combine drug tests, the sources said. Fewer than a dozen players tested positive for recreational drugs, one source said.

NFL teams received the drug-test results earlier this week. Players who failed are subject to entry into the NFL's substance-abuse program.

Sports Illustrated's Web site reported that Boston College defensive tackle B.J. Raji had flunked a combine drug test. Raji was not on the list of failed players, one source said, and SI.com has since retracted its story.

Harvin excelled as both a wide receiver and running back in Florida's spread offense. Harvin generated 1,303 yards from scrimmage and 17 touchdowns in 2008. He also posted a blazing time of 4.39 seconds in the 40-yard dash at the combine.

Profootballtalk.com originally reported last week that Harvin had tested positive.

Tate was having a monster season for North Carolina before tearing two knee ligaments midway through his senior campaign. He averaged 23.5 yards on his 16 receptions and was even more dangerous as a punt and kickoff returner. Tate's 397 all-purpose yards against McNeese State set a single-game record at UNC. Tate didn't work out at the Combine while still recovering from his injury.

calmkiller
04-22-2009, 10:53 AM
Santonio Holmes? Super Bowl MVP? Took a hit this year as well.....

Just saying...

I don't agree with the use of recreational drugs. But it happens. I am not going to say it makes you a horrible person.

Oviedo
04-22-2009, 10:56 AM
Just confirming what I have been telling you guys for awhile now.

Do you really want a player who knows that he is going to the biggest try out event in his life and still thinks lighting up some dope is a good career decision? Total lack of self discipline and judgement.

No thank you.

JUST-PLAIN-NASTY
04-22-2009, 11:17 AM
If any player tests positive at the combine...He is off my board. The kid knows the test is coming and still didn't prepare. It means either he lacks intelligence, has a serious problem, or doesn't care. Don't want a guy like that on my team. I also feel that is the same way the Steelers look at it.

feltdizz
04-22-2009, 11:46 AM
If any player tests positive at the combine...He is off my board. The kid knows the test is coming and still didn't prepare. It means either he lacks intelligence, has a serious problem, or doesn't care. Don't want a guy like that on my team. I also feel that is the same way the Steelers look at it.

yet Holmes could drive around smoking weed before an important game against Dallas?
So do you want Holmes gone?

Mister Pittsburgh
04-22-2009, 11:52 AM
It should be legalized. That said, it isn't, and my beef with these morons is they know they have a test coming up and still can't hold back? I would guess a quarter of the players in the NFL fire it up in the offseason. Maybe that is part of the adjustment to pro football....knowing when to stop smoking weed so you pee clean.

stlrz d
04-22-2009, 11:53 AM
Santonio Holmes? Super Bowl MVP? Took a hit this year as well.....

Just saying...

I don't agree with the use of recreational drugs. But it happens. I am not going to say it makes you a horrible person.

It's about the lack of judgment and the disregard for the repercussions that could result from doing something illegal.

Holmes was crucified for what he did this season, and rightly so. To answer the question that was posted, no I don't want Holmes gone because he's already on the team. But if he continues to do those things, then yes, he should be gone.

Harvin isn't on the team yet and there's no reason to bring him on board after something like this. Let someone else take a chance on him.

calmkiller
04-22-2009, 12:06 PM
Santonio Holmes? Super Bowl MVP? Took a hit this year as well.....

Just saying...

I don't agree with the use of recreational drugs. But it happens. I am not going to say it makes you a horrible person.

It's about the lack of judgment and the disregard for the repercussions that could result from doing something illegal.

Holmes was crucified for what he did this season, and rightly so. To answer the question that was posted, no I don't want Holmes gone because he's already on the team. But if he continues to do those things, then yes, he should be gone.

Harvin isn't on the team yet and there's no reason to bring him on board after something like this. Let someone else take a chance on him.

I will give you the fact that he is stupid for doing before the biggest job interview of his life. My main argument was the fact that it is illegal. Which is complete and total BS imo. And I have never smoked a day in my life. Alcohol and Tobacco screw up more lives than weed but they are perfectly legal. Anyway, no need to derail this thread.

stlrz d
04-22-2009, 12:10 PM
Santonio Holmes? Super Bowl MVP? Took a hit this year as well.....

Just saying...

I don't agree with the use of recreational drugs. But it happens. I am not going to say it makes you a horrible person.

It's about the lack of judgment and the disregard for the repercussions that could result from doing something illegal.

Holmes was crucified for what he did this season, and rightly so. To answer the question that was posted, no I don't want Holmes gone because he's already on the team. But if he continues to do those things, then yes, he should be gone.

Harvin isn't on the team yet and there's no reason to bring him on board after something like this. Let someone else take a chance on him.

I will give you the fact that he is stupid for doing before the biggest job interview of his life. My main argument was the fact that it is illegal. Which is complete and total BS imo. And I have never smoked a day in my life. Alcohol and Tobacco screw up more lives than weed but they are perfectly legal. Anyway, no need to derail this thread.

Whether or not pot should be legalized has nothing to do with this though. It is illegal and he completely disregarded that fact when he did what he did.

Agreeing or disagreeing with a law has nothing to do with breaking that law.

WoodleyofTroy
04-22-2009, 12:16 PM
It's not about the process of smoking weed. If he wants to get high, get high. But it's the fact that you NOW KNOW that there is a possibility that he can get suspended in the future causing him to miss games. Can't see how that won't be a red flag for Tomlin.

If this was Calvin Johnson (as he admitted last year) that's fine. But Harvin is already carrying baggage, putting himself in a deeper hole.

I still wouldn't mind Harvin in this Offense, but I wouldn't predict it.

RuthlessBurgher
04-22-2009, 12:18 PM
It is the stupid decision more than the act itself. Even if the test was for something completely and totally legal (like, say, caffeine), but they told me at the combine that they would be testing for caffeine, and there would be negative repercussions if caffeine was found in your system, do you think that I would be drinking Red Bulls the night before the biggest job interview of my life??? Even if I really like Mountain Dew, you'd think I would be smart enough to drink water or Gatorade or something else, knowing that I would be tested. Anyone that tests positive at the combine has to be exceedingly stupid, have no self-discipline whatsoever, or have a major problem with whatever drug they tested positive for. None of those explanations would satisfy me if I were a potential employer.

calmkiller
04-22-2009, 12:22 PM
It'll be alright though. The Bengals select before us. He will have a home.

Oviedo
04-22-2009, 12:40 PM
Repeat after me. Legal is legal. Illegal is illegal. Right is right. Wrong is wrong. Pretty straight forward approach.

If you are stupid enough to do something illegal when you know you are going to be tested for it and the tests will almost 100% for certain catch you brings up another saying: Stupid is stupid.

Oviedo
04-22-2009, 12:41 PM
It'll be alright though. The Bengals select before us. He will have a home.

I hope so. He would probably be healthy for about 10 games per year.

AngryAsian
04-22-2009, 01:03 PM
Repeat after me. Legal is legal. Illegal is illegal. Right is right. Wrong is wrong. Pretty straight forward approach.

If you are stupid enough to do something illegal when you know you are going to be tested for it and the tests will almost 100% for certain catch you brings up another saying: Stupid is stupid.


I don't think it is as black and white as you paint it.... I mean from their perspective. Most who get popped are of the same mind as people who choose to drink and drive. Highly illegal, but yet millions do it anyway thinking, "I'm okay to drive." I think that Ruthless, hit it on the head with his assessment of their decision making capabilities. The lack of maturity is glaring and is a red flag for Tomlin and Colbert, and most certainly something that is not wanted nor tolerated by this organization.

Harvin/Tate's poor judgement is not only stupid but unfortunately common place with the young. We've all done ridiculously dumb things from the age range of 18-22. Survival through these lessons of youth build character and wisdom. For us, generally speaking, "bumps in the road." For these two young men... a mountain of cash totaling in the millions.

JUST-PLAIN-NASTY
04-22-2009, 01:07 PM
If any player tests positive at the combine...He is off my board. The kid knows the test is coming and still didn't prepare. It means either he lacks intelligence, has a serious problem, or doesn't care. Don't want a guy like that on my team. I also feel that is the same way the Steelers look at it.

yet Holmes could drive around smoking weed before an important game against Dallas?
So do you want Holmes gone?

The Draft! We are talking about a kid who doesn't have enough intelligence not to do drugs before a test he knows is coming. It is the same as telling a child don't touch the stove when it is hot or you will get burned. The kid looks at you and does it anyway. And when Holmes tests positive...Then you can open your mouth! Until then...He made a stupid decision hanging out with friends who were smoking pot. Bark somewhere else!

JUST-PLAIN-NASTY
04-22-2009, 01:08 PM
Santonio Holmes? Super Bowl MVP? Took a hit this year as well.....

Just saying...

I don't agree with the use of recreational drugs. But it happens. I am not going to say it makes you a horrible person.

It's about the lack of judgment and the disregard for the repercussions that could result from doing something illegal.

Holmes was crucified for what he did this season, and rightly so. To answer the question that was posted, no I don't want Holmes gone because he's already on the team. But if he continues to do those things, then yes, he should be gone.

Harvin isn't on the team yet and there's no reason to bring him on board after something like this. Let someone else take a chance on him.

Well said.

JUST-PLAIN-NASTY
04-22-2009, 01:12 PM
Ditto on the "Well said" for AA & Ruth!

Flasteel
04-22-2009, 02:14 PM
Repeat after me. Legal is legal. Illegal is illegal. Right is right. Wrong is wrong. Pretty straight forward approach.

If you are stupid enough to do something illegal when you know you are going to be tested for it and the tests will almost 100% for certain catch you brings up another saying: Stupid is stupid.

Just to make a semantical point, smoking pot or being high is NOT illegal. It's illegal to possess, sell, cultivate, or operate a vehicle under the influence of it, but not to smoke it. Granted, it's awful difficult to get high without ever possessing it but this is why positive drug test results don't generate legal action.

All that said, it was ridiculously retarded of him or any other player to do this, knowing they'd be tested. I hope it does remove both of these players out of the first round to at least send a message that it matters.

I vote no on Harvin...and I'm a Gator.

fordfixer
04-22-2009, 02:30 PM
Repeat after me. Legal is legal. Illegal is illegal. Right is right. Wrong is wrong. Pretty straight forward approach.

If you are stupid enough to do something illegal when you know you are going to be tested for it and the tests will almost 100% for certain catch you brings up another saying: Stupid is stupid.

Just to make a semantical point, smoking pot or being high is NOT illegal. It's illegal to possess, sell, cultivate, or operate a vehicle under the influence of it, but not to smoke it. Granted, it's awful difficult to get high without ever possessing it but this is why positive drug test results don't generate legal action.

All that said, it was ridiculously retarded of him or any other player to do this, knowing they'd be tested. I hope it does remove both of these players out of the first round to at least send a message that it matters.

I vote no on Harvin...and I'm a Gator.


So how do you smoke pot with out possessing it? :stirpot

Flasteel
04-22-2009, 02:53 PM
Repeat after me. Legal is legal. Illegal is illegal. Right is right. Wrong is wrong. Pretty straight forward approach.

If you are stupid enough to do something illegal when you know you are going to be tested for it and the tests will almost 100% for certain catch you brings up another saying: Stupid is stupid.

Just to make a semantical point, smoking pot or being high is NOT illegal. It's illegal to possess, sell, cultivate, or operate a vehicle under the influence of it, but not to smoke it. Granted, it's awful difficult to get high without ever possessing it but this is why positive drug test results don't generate legal action.

All that said, it was ridiculously retarded of him or any other player to do this, knowing they'd be tested. I hope it does remove both of these players out of the first round to at least send a message that it matters.

I vote no on Harvin...and I'm a Gator.


So how do you smoke pot with out possessing it? :stirpot

Shotgun
Hotbox
Accidentally eating the wrong brownie

fordfixer
04-22-2009, 05:03 PM
Repeat after me. Legal is legal. Illegal is illegal. Right is right. Wrong is wrong. Pretty straight forward approach.

If you are stupid enough to do something illegal when you know you are going to be tested for it and the tests will almost 100% for certain catch you brings up another saying: Stupid is stupid.

Just to make a semantical point, smoking pot or being high is NOT illegal. It's illegal to possess, sell, cultivate, or operate a vehicle under the influence of it, but not to smoke it. Granted, it's awful difficult to get high without ever possessing it but this is why positive drug test results don't generate legal action.

All that said, it was ridiculously retarded of him or any other player to do this, knowing they'd be tested. I hope it does remove both of these players out of the first round to at least send a message that it matters.

I vote no on Harvin...and I'm a Gator.


So how do you smoke pot with out possessing it? :stirpot

Shotgun
Hotbox
Accidentally eating the wrong brownie


I'm not sure what shotgun or hotbox is, but the wrong brownie thing I've heard of before :lol:

Flasteel
04-22-2009, 06:20 PM
So how do you smoke pot with out possessing it? :stirpot

Shotgun
Hotbox
Accidentally eating the wrong brownie


I'm not sure what shotgun or hotbox is, but the wrong brownie thing I've heard of before :lol:

Here's Snoop demonstrating one form of the "shotgun"

http://i39.tinypic.com/2h3mszq.jpg

...and the classic hotbox scene with Jeff Spicoli

http://i39.tinypic.com/2rfzg5t.jpg

birtikidis
04-22-2009, 07:20 PM
I'd take harvin in the 2nd. if he were there. but not the first.
and who knows, sweed was considered a 1st rounder and fell to the 2nd. what if the same happens to harvin?

RuthlessBurgher
04-22-2009, 08:44 PM
So how do you smoke pot with out possessing it? :stirpot

Shotgun
Hotbox
Accidentally eating the wrong brownie


I'm not sure what shotgun or hotbox is, but the wrong brownie thing I've heard of before :lol:

Here's Snoop demonstrating one form of the "shotgun"

http://i39.tinypic.com/2h3mszq.jpg

...and the classic hotbox scene with Jeff Spicoli

http://i39.tinypic.com/2rfzg5t.jpg

The shotgun method looks a little http://cache.daylife.com/imageserve/0d291nm47heyA/340x.jpg to me.

Flasteel
04-22-2009, 09:01 PM
So how do you smoke pot with out possessing it? :stirpot

Shotgun
Hotbox
Accidentally eating the wrong brownie


I'm not sure what shotgun or hotbox is, but the wrong brownie thing I've heard of before :lol:

Here's Snoop demonstrating one form of the "shotgun"

http://i39.tinypic.com/2h3mszq.jpg

...and the classic hotbox scene with Jeff Spicoli

http://i39.tinypic.com/2rfzg5t.jpg

The shotgun method looks a little http://cache.daylife.com/imageserve/0d291nm47heyA/340x.jpg to me.

I guess it would depend on who's pulling the trigger. :Boobs

stlrz d
04-22-2009, 09:17 PM
Harvin: I was gonna be a first round pick but then I got high. :lol:

And birk, no to him in the second too. He's bad news. I can feel it. He's going to be Pac Man lite.

grotonsteel
04-22-2009, 09:25 PM
I hope Steelers take a chance on him in Rd 2 if he is available.

steelers43
04-22-2009, 10:24 PM
You guys crack me up. I guess you all are too good for me or never been to college.

The guy is a star. Treated like a hero in FLA and partied after finishing his college career. I don't see any pattern that he's been a problem. Has he failed previous tests? If we didn't have any players on our board that had ever failed a test, we'd never have had Marvel Smith, Joey Porter, etc.

If he falls to 32, he's by far the best talent and at that point the benefit far outweighs the downside. Him testing positive now means he likely will accept clauses in his contract for random team testing and we can protect the bonuses via repayment clauses in his contract.

He's not the first 21 year old kid to mess up. That doesn't condone him for life.

I smoked in college, then worked for years in careers I was tested and had NO problem whatsoever not smoking. I'm a pretty avid runner and have no issues. Friends who smoke cigarettes, I do not, have much more problems breathing at altitude than I.

Heck, it likely helped him in his injury getting better faster as it is known to help healing and pain relief. Christ, it's legal here in Colorado if you go to the doctor with a trick knee and get a prescription.

We just handed $48 mill to a guy who hit a woman. Far a worse offense in my opinion.

fordfixer
04-22-2009, 10:44 PM
You guys crack me up. I guess you all are too good for me or never been to college.

The guy is a star. Treated like a hero in FLA and partied after finishing his college career. I don't see any pattern that he's been a problem. Has he failed previous tests? If we didn't have any players on our board that had ever failed a test, we'd never have had Marvel Smith, Joey Porter, etc.

If he falls to 32, he's by far the best talent and at that point the benefit far outweighs the downside. Him testing positive now means he likely will accept clauses in his contract for random team testing and we can protect the bonuses via repayment clauses in his contract.

He's not the first 21 year old kid to mess up. That doesn't condone him for life.

I smoked in college, then worked for years in careers I was tested and had NO problem whatsoever not smoking. I'm a pretty avid runner and have no issues. Friends who smoke cigarettes, I do not, have much more problems breathing at altitude than I.

Heck, it likely helped him in his injury getting better faster as it is known to help healing and pain relief. Christ, it's legal here in Colorado if you go to the doctor with a trick knee and get a prescription.

We just handed $48 mill to a guy who hit a woman. Far a worse offense in my opinion.


But did you smoke before you went to a job interview where you knew you would be tested for it?

steelers43
04-22-2009, 10:54 PM
You guys crack me up. I guess you all are too good for me or never been to college.

The guy is a star. Treated like a hero in FLA and partied after finishing his college career. I don't see any pattern that he's been a problem. Has he failed previous tests? If we didn't have any players on our board that had ever failed a test, we'd never have had Marvel Smith, Joey Porter, etc.

If he falls to 32, he's by far the best talent and at that point the benefit far outweighs the downside. Him testing positive now means he likely will accept clauses in his contract for random team testing and we can protect the bonuses via repayment clauses in his contract.

He's not the first 21 year old kid to mess up. That doesn't condone him for life.

I smoked in college, then worked for years in careers I was tested and had NO problem whatsoever not smoking. I'm a pretty avid runner and have no issues. Friends who smoke cigarettes, I do not, have much more problems breathing at altitude than I.

Heck, it likely helped him in his injury getting better faster as it is known to help healing and pain relief. Christ, it's legal here in Colorado if you go to the doctor with a trick knee and get a prescription.

We just handed $48 mill to a guy who hit a woman. Far a worse offense in my opinion.


But did you smoke before you went to a job interview where you knew you would be tested for it?

Actually, yes. I wasn't aware of the interview or what was entailed but I had smoked about 2 weeks prior. I took a masking agent and passed. They didn't tell me of the test but I had a feeling so when I got the offer and 2nd interview date, I had no choice. It was too late.

But that's not the point. At 32, you get few opps to draft a top 10 talent. Talk to the kid, check his previous tests and actions and plan accordingly. If he made a mistake, so be it.

Again, the risk is worth it imo. WOrst case scenario, he's a bust. Best case, he's a star and we were able to land him only for this reason.

Think if it this way, would you draft Reggie Bush at 32 if the same thing happened the year he came out?

Flasteel
04-22-2009, 11:04 PM
You guys crack me up. I guess you all are too good for me or never been to college.

The guy is a star. Treated like a hero in FLA and partied after finishing his college career. I don't see any pattern that he's been a problem. Has he failed previous tests? If we didn't have any players on our board that had ever failed a test, we'd never have had Marvel Smith, Joey Porter, etc.

If he falls to 32, he's by far the best talent and at that point the benefit far outweighs the downside. Him testing positive now means he likely will accept clauses in his contract for random team testing and we can protect the bonuses via repayment clauses in his contract.

He's not the first 21 year old kid to mess up. That doesn't condone him for life.

I smoked in college, then worked for years in careers I was tested and had NO problem whatsoever not smoking. I'm a pretty avid runner and have no issues. Friends who smoke cigarettes, I do not, have much more problems breathing at altitude than I.

Heck, it likely helped him in his injury getting better faster as it is known to help healing and pain relief. Christ, it's legal here in Colorado if you go to the doctor with a trick knee and get a prescription.

We just handed $48 mill to a guy who hit a woman. Far a worse offense in my opinion.

As it has been mentioned 43, it doesn't make him a bad person...just really, really stupid. He wasn't a behavior problem at Florida and he certainly isn't going to approach Pac Man lite status as was suggested by D.

Hey, wasn't your original handle over at the Trib Steelers420? I thought you were all about the chronic man? :lol:

On a separate note, there is no evidence that marijuana expedites the healing process or can serve as an analgesic. The legal issues are also a moot point. If he knew he was going to be tested and the ramification for a non-negative sample was perhaps millions of dollars, he is by definition an idiot. There is every reason in the world to believe that he would continue to smoke after entering the second stage of the league's substance use program and earn a 4-game or eventually 1-year suspension...not worth it at 1.32.

steelers43
04-22-2009, 11:08 PM
You guys crack me up. I guess you all are too good for me or never been to college.

The guy is a star. Treated like a hero in FLA and partied after finishing his college career. I don't see any pattern that he's been a problem. Has he failed previous tests? If we didn't have any players on our board that had ever failed a test, we'd never have had Marvel Smith, Joey Porter, etc.

If he falls to 32, he's by far the best talent and at that point the benefit far outweighs the downside. Him testing positive now means he likely will accept clauses in his contract for random team testing and we can protect the bonuses via repayment clauses in his contract.

He's not the first 21 year old kid to mess up. That doesn't condone him for life.

I smoked in college, then worked for years in careers I was tested and had NO problem whatsoever not smoking. I'm a pretty avid runner and have no issues. Friends who smoke cigarettes, I do not, have much more problems breathing at altitude than I.

Heck, it likely helped him in his injury getting better faster as it is known to help healing and pain relief. Christ, it's legal here in Colorado if you go to the doctor with a trick knee and get a prescription.

We just handed $48 mill to a guy who hit a woman. Far a worse offense in my opinion.

As it has been mentioned 43, it doesn't make him a bad person...just really, really stupid. He wasn't a behavior problem at Florida and he certainly isn't going to approach Pac Man lite status as was suggested by D.

Hey, wasn't your original handle over at the Trib Steelers420? I thought you were all about the chronic man? :lol:

On a separate note, there is no evidence that marijuana expedites the healing process or can serve as an analgesic. The legal issues are also a moot point. If he knew he was going to be tested and the ramification for a non-negative sample was perhaps millions of dollars, he is by definition an idiot. There is every reason in the world to believe that he would continue to smoke after entering the second stage of the league's substance use program and earn a 4-game or eventually 1-year suspension...not worth it at 1.32.

If it is his only issue and he hasn't been a problem, he's definitely worth it imo.

And marijuana most certainly does help with pain, appetite for people under chemo, etc. Healing process may not be confirmed but give it time.

I can only presume you are completely against the Harrison deal and extending HOlmes.

Flasteel
04-22-2009, 11:33 PM
If it is his only issue and he hasn't been a problem, he's definitely worth it imo.

And marijuana most certainly does help with pain, appetite for people under chemo, etc. Healing process may not be confirmed but give it time.

I can only presume you are completely against the Harrison deal and extending HOlmes.

It most certainly does not alleviate physical pain. Find one legitimate source and post, then you will have my most humble apologies. You are correct with the appetite restoration with AIDS patients and chemo patients, as well as the alleviation of nausea, and reduction of interoccular pressure associated with glaucoma. I'm sure many people find it to be a great stress reliever as well since it spikes Alpha waves and induces an artificial meditative state. Pain relief...no.

As far as the Harrison deal, I'm actually all about it. As was pointed out, this is a guy already on the team who got caught up in a situation. I'm not privy to the actual facts as is the case with all of us. Harrison is the definition of work ethic and has yet to make any other off-field mistakes. I completely agree with you that hitting a woman is a far worse offense but we don't know what went down there.

When did we extend Holmes?...I must have missed that. Again however, he's already on the team and made a one-time mistake with the drug. If he were to continue the pattern and have a second offense, I'd let him walk at the end of his contract. A third offense and he'd be cut before his contract was up...that's just me.

I completely agree with you that smoking pot doesn't make anyone a bad person, but if you have a problem with it, then it can lead to problems for the team. Harvin either has a problem with it or he's an idiot...either way I don't like that in a 1st round pick.

SteelCzar76
04-22-2009, 11:41 PM
You guys crack me up. I guess you all are too good for me or never been to college.

The guy is a star. Treated like a hero in FLA and partied after finishing his college career. I don't see any pattern that he's been a problem. Has he failed previous tests? If we didn't have any players on our board that had ever failed a test, we'd never have had Marvel Smith, Joey Porter, etc.

If he falls to 32, he's by far the best talent and at that point the benefit far outweighs the downside. Him testing positive now means he likely will accept clauses in his contract for random team testing and we can protect the bonuses via repayment clauses in his contract.

He's not the first 21 year old kid to mess up. That doesn't condone him for life.

I smoked in college, then worked for years in careers I was tested and had NO problem whatsoever not smoking. I'm a pretty avid runner and have no issues. Friends who smoke cigarettes, I do not, have much more problems breathing at altitude than I.

Heck, it likely helped him in his injury getting better faster as it is known to help healing and pain relief. Christ, it's legal here in Colorado if you go to the doctor with a trick knee and get a prescription.

We just handed $48 mill to a guy who hit a woman. Far a worse offense in my opinion.


Well said 43. I can understand the perspective of those whom say, "WTF was he thinking,..he knew he would be tested. He must be "stupid" or addicted ?!" But logic dictates that it is not that simple, as there is often more to a story than meets the eye or ears via hearsay.

Meaning, perhaps he had partied prior to the combine, and figured that he would beat the test with a masking agent, and then failed to take into account that they would test for such agents as well and consider that a failed test.( I do not think they test via hair,..otherwise they would lose a considerable amount of prospects to failed tests each year)

Does this make him stupid ? No,... just immature in the sense that he should have just bitten the Bullet and took a break for a great deal of time in advance. But again,...ego and immaturity are not enough of a justification for not drafting this kid if you have the opportunity. As he's (again) no villan,....and would provide an immediate offensive upgrade for this team.( As well as on special teams)

Bottom line,...it will not only be ridiculous if this kid is on the board 32,... but absolute madness if we fail to valet park our high horses and pass upon him. (As we did with Danny Marino)

steelers43
04-23-2009, 12:51 AM
If it is his only issue and he hasn't been a problem, he's definitely worth it imo.

And marijuana most certainly does help with pain, appetite for people under chemo, etc. Healing process may not be confirmed but give it time.

I can only presume you are completely against the Harrison deal and extending HOlmes.

It most certainly does not alleviate physical pain. Find one legitimate source and post, then you will have my most humble apologies. You are correct with the appetite restoration with AIDS patients and chemo patients, as well as the alleviation of nausea, and reduction of interoccular pressure associated with glaucoma. I'm sure many people find it to be a great stress reliever as well since it spikes Alpha waves and induces an artificial meditative state. Pain relief...no.

As far as the Harrison deal, I'm actually all about it. As was pointed out, this is a guy already on the team who got caught up in a situation. I'm not privy to the actual facts as is the case with all of us. Harrison is the definition of work ethic and has yet to make any other off-field mistakes. I completely agree with you that hitting a woman is a far worse offense but we don't know what went down there.

When did we extend Holmes?...I must have missed that. Again however, he's already on the team and made a one-time mistake with the drug. If he were to continue the pattern and have a second offense, I'd let him walk at the end of his contract. A third offense and he'd be cut before his contract was up...that's just me.

I completely agree with you that smoking pot doesn't make anyone a bad person, but if you have a problem with it, then it can lead to problems for the team. Harvin either has a problem with it or he's an idiot...either way I don't like that in a 1st round pick.

I just don't understand that logic.

Don't pay a potential superstar a 32nd pick money guaranteed and team protected deal but you're all for giving $51 mill to a guy who just a year ago hit his girlfriend?

Work ethic? What about Harvin staying over Christmas and working out to play in the bowl game?

steelers43
04-23-2009, 12:55 AM
You guys crack me up. I guess you all are too good for me or never been to college.

The guy is a star. Treated like a hero in FLA and partied after finishing his college career. I don't see any pattern that he's been a problem. Has he failed previous tests? If we didn't have any players on our board that had ever failed a test, we'd never have had Marvel Smith, Joey Porter, etc.

If he falls to 32, he's by far the best talent and at that point the benefit far outweighs the downside. Him testing positive now means he likely will accept clauses in his contract for random team testing and we can protect the bonuses via repayment clauses in his contract.

He's not the first 21 year old kid to mess up. That doesn't condone him for life.

I smoked in college, then worked for years in careers I was tested and had NO problem whatsoever not smoking. I'm a pretty avid runner and have no issues. Friends who smoke cigarettes, I do not, have much more problems breathing at altitude than I.

Heck, it likely helped him in his injury getting better faster as it is known to help healing and pain relief. Christ, it's legal here in Colorado if you go to the doctor with a trick knee and get a prescription.

We just handed $48 mill to a guy who hit a woman. Far a worse offense in my opinion.


Well said 43. I can understand the perspective of those whom say, "WTF was he thinking,..he knew he would be tested. He must be "stupid" or addicted ?!" But logic dictates that it is not that simple, as there is often more to a story than meets the eye or ears via hearsay.

Meaning, perhaps he had partied prior to the combine, and figured that he would beat the test with a masking agent, and then failed to take into account that they would test for such agents as well and consider that a failed test.( I do not think they test via hair,..otherwise they would lose a considerable amount of prospects to failed tests each year)

Does this make him stupid ? No,... just immature in the sense that he should have just bitten the Bullet and took a break for a great deal of time in advance. But again,...ego and immaturity are not enough of a justification for not drafting this kid if you have the opportunity. As he's (again) no villan,....and would provide an immediate offensive upgrade for this team.( As well as on special teams)

Bottom line,...it will not only be ridiculous if this kid is on the board 32,... but absolute madness if we fail to valet park our high horses and pass upon him. (As we did with Danny Marino)


Agreed was it stupid, yes.

But with us at 32 and having the chance to get a top 10 talent? Worth the risk imo. Without this dumb mistake, we don't have a chance to land him.

Santonio, Sweed and Harvin make a nice trio even if Hines retires next year. It also gives us options if Holmes makes another mistake.

WoodleyofTroy
04-23-2009, 01:09 AM
Agreed was it stupid, yes.

But with us at 32 and having the chance to get a top 10 talent? Worth the risk imo. Without this dumb mistake, we don't have a chance to land him.

Santonio, Sweed and Harvin make a nice trio even if Hines retires next year. It also gives us options if Holmes makes another mistake.

That's doubtful. You act like he is Calvin Johnson and this is his only red flag. The reason this is such a big deal for him, is because he already had a laundry list of concerns. Awful wonderlic. Reports about being a poor teammate. Injuries/Durability.

stlrz d
04-23-2009, 01:15 AM
Harvin is an idiot. There was talk of him living in Percyland before this and now he can't even stay away from the **** before getting tested for it. He's a moron.

When the Steelers draft a WR they are looking for Ward's eventual successor. They're not going to find that in an oft injured, egotistical punk.

Didn't what happened with Burress teach you guys anything???

Flasteel
04-23-2009, 05:48 AM
...As far as the Harrison deal, I'm actually all about it. As was pointed out, this is a guy already on the team who got caught up in a situation. I'm not privy to the actual facts as is the case with all of us. Harrison is the definition of work ethic and has yet to make any other off-field mistakes. I completely agree with you that hitting a woman is a far worse offense but we don't know what went down there.

When did we extend Holmes?...I must have missed that. Again however, he's already on the team and made a one-time mistake with the drug. If he were to continue the pattern and have a second offense, I'd let him walk at the end of his contract. A third offense and he'd be cut before his contract was up...that's just me.

I completely agree with you that smoking pot doesn't make anyone a bad person, but if you have a problem with it, then it can lead to problems for the team. Harvin either has a problem with it or he's an idiot...either way I don't like that in a 1st round pick.

I just don't understand that logic.

Don't pay a potential superstar a 32nd pick money guaranteed and team protected deal but you're all for giving $51 mill to a guy who just a year ago hit his girlfriend?

Work ethic? What about Harvin staying over Christmas and working out to play in the bowl game?

You don't understand the logic? :lol:

How do you not understand that you keep an established superstar who has otherwise not caused a single problem and been the model of what you want in a player. Besides, you don't know what took place in that situation and neither do I; you're just using it to try and justify your decision here. This is not the same as bringing guy on to your team who could become a superstar but has a serious question mark next to him. When you stand up in front of the whole world and talk about how important it is to bring in the right type of player (Tomlin & Colbert), then turn around and select a guy who came up dirty at the biggest opportunity to ever stare him in the face...well, you tell me.

How do you not get that logic? Do you think the two situations are congruent to the point that if you are okay with Harrison getting a new deal, you have to be okay with drafting Harvin at #1? Now that is the definition of knucklehead thinking brother...c'mon 43.

Flasteel
04-23-2009, 05:57 AM
Well said 43. I can understand the perspective of those whom say, "WTF was he thinking,..he knew he would be tested. He must be "stupid" or addicted ?!" But logic dictates that it is not that simple, as there is often more to a story than meets the eye or ears via hearsay.

Meaning, perhaps he had partied prior to the combine, and figured that he would beat the test with a masking agent, and then failed to take into account that they would test for such agents as well and consider that a failed test.( I do not think they test via hair,..otherwise they would lose a considerable amount of prospects to failed tests each year)

Does this make him stupid ? No,... just immature in the sense that he should have just bitten the Bullet and took a break for a great deal of time in advance. But again,...ego and immaturity are not enough of a justification for not drafting this kid if you have the opportunity. As he's (again) no villan,....and would provide an immediate offensive upgrade for this team.( As well as on special teams)

Bottom line,...it will not only be ridiculous if this kid is on the board 32,... but absolute madness if we fail to valet park our high horses and pass upon him. (As we did with Danny Marino)

Are you kidding Czar?? When you come up dirty on a UA test, all room for heresay or "more there than meets the eye" flies out the window. Think of the mentality it takes to light up that splif with the combine right around the corner. Whether you've got your hands on a bottle of Golden Root Seal or not, it's complete idiocy to take the chance. Put down the pipe for a few weeks there Percy...that's all it takes. This goes beyond an immature decision borne of an underdeveloped prefrontal cortex. I can guarantee that his agent was in his ear 24-7 about what to do and what not to do. The picture was painted quite clearly for him. Run that scenario through your mind a couple of times and try to find the outcome where he doesn't come off as an idiot or an addict...good luck with that.

Dan Marino never failed a drug test at the combine, so don't start comparing the two situations my friend.

SteelCzar76
04-23-2009, 09:03 AM
Well said 43. I can understand the perspective of those whom say, "WTF was he thinking,..he knew he would be tested. He must be "stupid" or addicted ?!" But logic dictates that it is not that simple, as there is often more to a story than meets the eye or ears via hearsay.

Meaning, perhaps he had partied prior to the combine, and figured that he would beat the test with a masking agent, and then failed to take into account that they would test for such agents as well and consider that a failed test.( I do not think they test via hair,..otherwise they would lose a considerable amount of prospects to failed tests each year)

Does this make him stupid ? No,... just immature in the sense that he should have just bitten the Bullet and took a break for a great deal of time in advance. But again,...ego and immaturity are not enough of a justification for not drafting this kid if you have the opportunity. As he's (again) no villan,....and would provide an immediate offensive upgrade for this team.( As well as on special teams)

Bottom line,...it will not only be ridiculous if this kid is on the board 32,... but absolute madness if we fail to valet park our high horses and pass upon him. (As we did with Danny Marino)

Are you kidding Czar?? When you come up dirty on a UA test, all room for heresay or "more there than meets the eye" flies out the window. Think of the mentality it takes to light up that splif with the combine right around the corner. Whether you've got your hands on a bottle of Golden Root Seal or not, it's complete idiocy to take the chance. Put down the pipe for a few weeks there Percy...that's all it takes. This goes beyond an immature decision borne of an underdeveloped prefrontal cortex. I can guarantee that his agent was in his ear 24-7 about what to do and what not to do. The picture was painted quite clearly for him. Run that scenario through your mind a couple of times and try to find the outcome where he doesn't come off as an idiot or an addict...good luck with that.

Dan Marino never failed a drug test at the combine, so don't start comparing the two situations my friend.



You have a very valid point FS in terms of just how absurd it was upon Percy's part to disregard the fact that he would be tested and or even take the chance of blowing trees at all anywhere near the the combine.

But on the flipside,..let's put the absurdity of the entire,..."we only select players whom are squeaky clean squares" hypocrisy into perspective.

Santonio pumped (sold) drugs in his youth as well as smoked weed for a considerable amount of time prior to becoming a professional. Now though he passed his combine screening do you not realize that the "security" specialists in the employ of pro football organizations (including those of the Steelers) were FULLY aware of his background coming into the draft ? And yet he was still drafted. (The same can be said of Dan in terms of use of drugs and alchohol, though the Steelers passed on him, which is why i mentioned him)

And though he (Santo) has had a few minor incidents, for the most part he has gone on to be a stand up individual and quality member of society as well as an exceptional part of his team's success on the field. (Like Dan, Warren Sapp and countless others whom partied in college as young men in their respective primes)

I said all this to say,.......do you and others consider a 'crime' no crime at all in the event that it remains unknown to John Q public and or detractors ? And if so,... how is that not dubiously self righteous and or personally motivated ? Either by a desire for another prospect from a fans perspective,... or by ego and desire to create a particular "public" facade on the part of particular GM's, coaches and FO's ?

I'm saying,...if such a hard line is to be drawn, then every team (including us) should be absolutely self righteous and go over their entire roster, coaching staff included,... and part ways with every single individual whom has not grown up in suburbia and or lived a choir boys life since birth.

birtikidis
04-23-2009, 09:41 AM
who knows, maybe harvin was celebrating and drank too much, someone passed him a doobie and he hit it. we don't know. and that's not the reason I don't take him.

his injury history is the reason I don't draft him. unless he's there in the 2nd.

birtikidis
04-23-2009, 09:43 AM
Also, I live in gainesville and i can honestly say that I NEVER hear about him doing stupid crap. He does it. I know that. but he doesn't get caught and he's not all over town making an idiot of himself.

stlrz d
04-23-2009, 11:00 AM
Flasteel - major points to you man. You nailed it.

The only way I ever want to see Harvin in Pittsburgh is as a member of the visiting squad.

AngryAsian
04-23-2009, 11:00 AM
The debate on Harvin is hilarious as it unfolds. Everyone with a stiffy for this guy is willing to argue about the "hypocrisy" of not taking Harvin using the Holmes situation as an example, making notations about Holmes' history.

Fact: Holmes is on the team, regardless of his past "green" perspective on how he chooses to live his life.

Fact: Harvin isn't on the team therefore can be scrutinized and dissected for his recent actions (whether deliberate or accidental :roll: ) and will probably lose millions for his decision.

On draft day, all decisions aren't all about talent. With marginal characters like Burress in our past, the FO is most certainly doing their homework and the liabilities will be "weeded" out. Is Harvin a huge talent? Absofugginlutely.... I'm a Florida fan and love what he has to bring to the table. But above all else I'm a Steeler fan and knowing my team and team history I know that this is a gamble that our FO will not take. If they were looking into the Harvin prior to this incident, I'm sure they no longer are. As for "how can they pass on this calibre of talent" rants.... look at our team. We've won 2 Lombardis in 4 years with our formula, I'll throw my hat in with the guys that have made the decisions thus far.

SteelCzar76
04-23-2009, 12:04 PM
The debate on Harvin is hilarious as it unfolds. Everyone with a stiffy for this guy is willing to argue about the "hypocrisy" of not taking Harvin using the Holmes situation as an example, making notations about Holmes' history.

Fact: Holmes is on the team, regardless of his past "green" perspective on how he chooses to live his life.

Fact: Harvin isn't on the team therefore can be scrutinized and dissected for his recent actions (whether deliberate or accidental :roll: ) and will probably lose millions for his decision.

I think that your are missing the point in terms of myself and others mentioning Santo. And that point is that his "issues" were also known of (by the organization) prior to the team selecting him.

And as such, how can such a hard line "poor character" stance be taken against Harvin ? Simply because he made the mistake of allowing himself to be subjected to public scrutiny ? You can spin it any way that you'd like to,...but at the end of the day,,,,smoking weed is smoking weed, beating women is beating women. Unless of course,.... it's Holmes blowing trees or Harrison beating the woman as opposed to Harvin smoking or Cedric Wilson slapping a female around. (funny how fans, Coaches and GM's can be so "morally upright" yet,...so,.....flexible,.. as suits their particular motivation to be.) :lol:

WoodleyofTroy
04-23-2009, 12:22 PM
"There is a "hole" in Percy Harvin's foot/ankle area that will require more surgery, according to the NY Daily News.

Harvin played last season with a hairline foot fracture and was never reported to have had it fixed. He did run a 4.41 at the Combine, but sat out the forty at Florida's Pro Day because he wasn't fully healed. If teams are spreading misinformation to lower his perceived stock, they're doing a heck of a job."

Mister Pittsburgh
04-23-2009, 12:25 PM
Let's just draft the big white dude from Cal to play C and call it a day.

stlrz d
04-23-2009, 12:36 PM
The debate on Harvin is hilarious as it unfolds. Everyone with a stiffy for this guy is willing to argue about the "hypocrisy" of not taking Harvin using the Holmes situation as an example, making notations about Holmes' history.

Fact: Holmes is on the team, regardless of his past "green" perspective on how he chooses to live his life.

Fact: Harvin isn't on the team therefore can be scrutinized and dissected for his recent actions (whether deliberate or accidental :roll: ) and will probably lose millions for his decision.

I think that your are missing the point in terms of myself and others mentioning Santo. And that point is that his "issues" were also known of (by the organization) prior to the team selecting him.

And as such, how can such a hard line "poor character" stance be taken against Harvin ? Simply because he made the mistake of allowing himself to be subjected to public scrutiny ? You can spin it any way you that you'd like to,...but at the end of the day,,,,smoking weed is smoking weed, beating women is beating women. Unless of course,.... it's Holmes blowing trees or Harrison beating the woman as opposed to Harvin smoking or Cedric Wilson slapping a female around. (funny how fans, Coaches and GM's can be so "morally upright" yet,...so,.....flexible,.. as suits their particular motivation to be.) :lol:

Boy when it comes to "your guys" you'll make any argument to take them, won't you? Sheesh...like I pointed out in another thread, Harrison has had ONE incident as a Steeler. Ced's incidents were ongoing. He showed no sign of stopping what he was doing. Screw up multiple times as a Steeler and you're gone when the team can get rid of you without crippling themselves financially. Ask Burress how that works.

stlrz d
04-23-2009, 12:41 PM
And another thing...when a player tests positive at the combine they automatically have a strike against them when it comes to the NFL's substance abuse policy. Meaning one screw up and immediate suspension.

We're trying to win another championship...we don't need a guy who doesn't care about anyone but himself and who thinks the rules don't apply to him.

SteelCzar76
04-23-2009, 12:55 PM
Boy when it comes to "your guys" you'll make any argument to take them, won't you? Sheesh...like I pointed out in another thread, Harrison has had ONE incident as a Steeler. Ced's incidents were ongoing. He showed no sign of stopping what he was doing. Screw up multiple times as a Steeler and you're gone when the team can get rid of you without crippling themselves financially. Ask Burress how that works.


http://www.quizilla.com/user_images/F/FR/FRI/fridayquizyo69/1147123775_smokey2.jpg
"Don't be worried about what the F#ck iiiii be doin Stlrz" :lol:


All jokes aside though i'm not throwing Silverback, Santo or anyone else under the Bus dude. I'm just saying,...if you want to argue objectively against Harvin because you feel that an O-lineman or another player would be of more value,..or because of his (Percy) injuries that's one thing. But to use the whole "moral standpoint" perspective and or insult the kid because he made a mistake is "that bullsh#t" on anyone's part in my opinion.

stlrz d
04-23-2009, 01:00 PM
I don't want him for two reasons.

One: He is a self-centered "I'm above the rules" guy.

Two: He's a fast guy who's only success is catching the ball in the open field. The entire offense was designed around getting him in space. That won't work in the pros.

Harvin and DHB are the two WR busts expected to go round one, imo.

SteelCzar76
04-23-2009, 01:21 PM
I don't want him for two reasons.

One: He is a self-centered "I'm above the rules" guy.

Two: He's a fast guy who's only success is catching the ball in the open field. The entire offense was designed around getting him in space. That won't work in the pros.

Harvin and DHB are the two WR busts expected to go round one, imo.


Now you know what,.. i can respect that Stlrz. As i understand your perspective whether i agree or not.

On the first note i'll agree with you about him being a bit self centered,..but i just don't have as big a problem with that as some.

In fact,... i want my DB's, WR's. and Qb's to have enough swagger to perform at a high level consistently as well as to be able to have short memories and henceforth avoid "slumps" or streaky play. As long as the player honors his organization, teammates, coaches and stays out of Legal trouble,...."knock yourself out".

In terms of of him playing in space,...this kid creates space. I don't think we will have to script the offense around him. His acceleration is incredible and he's got great hands, hand eye coordination, strength and plays with passion.

But i do agree with you however on DHB. In my opinion he's just a "specimen" with good straight line speed that doesn't run good routes and has inconsistent hands.

AngryAsian
04-23-2009, 02:24 PM
The debate on Harvin is hilarious as it unfolds. Everyone with a stiffy for this guy is willing to argue about the "hypocrisy" of not taking Harvin using the Holmes situation as an example, making notations about Holmes' history.

Fact: Holmes is on the team, regardless of his past "green" perspective on how he chooses to live his life.

Fact: Harvin isn't on the team therefore can be scrutinized and dissected for his recent actions (whether deliberate or accidental :roll: ) and will probably lose millions for his decision.

I think that your are missing the point in terms of myself and others mentioning Santo. And that point is that his "issues" were also known of (by the organization) prior to the team selecting him.

And as such, how can such a hard line "poor character" stance be taken against Harvin ? Simply because he made the mistake of allowing himself to be subjected to public scrutiny ? You can spin it any way that you'd like to,...but at the end of the day,,,,smoking weed is smoking weed, beating women is beating women. Unless of course,.... it's Holmes blowing trees or Harrison beating the woman as opposed to Harvin smoking or Cedric Wilson slapping a female around. (funny how fans, Coaches and GM's can be so "morally upright" yet,...so,.....flexible,.. as suits their particular motivation to be.) :lol:



Either you are self employed or your perspective on the league maybe a little off. The NFL is a job. The combine is a job fair, you turn in your application, get a physical and interview with perspective companies who wish to possibly employ you. I know if I were coming out of college and going to such a job fair where I would be scrutinized about my the certain skill set I present, I would show a little maturity and good judgement by not engaging in acts that would be hinder my employment. This has nothing to do with morality.

Holmes is already employed by the company I potentially want to be a part of, and didn't test positive at his job fair, regardless of whether the company was aware of his history. Recently he's had issues at home that has required his employer to help him.... just like any other employer who has an employee test positive for an illegal substance, they don't fire them the help them. If further "slip ups" occur that merit suspension and/or termination then Holmes would be out of a job.

As for Harrison, it was he handled things that kept him in the fold. Unlike Ced Wilson, he reached out to the FO and got help with anger management.... Ced did not and Ced has had a history of such things, where as Harrison did not.

The details gentlemen... the details. As for the continued debate:

Holmes... On team and a proven commodity without durability issues

Harvin... Not on team without one NFL snap on his sheet with some serious health concerns.


Apples and oranges.
Its really that simple

SteelCzar76
04-23-2009, 03:07 PM
Either you are self employed or your perspective on the league maybe a little off. The NFL is a job. The combine is a job fair, you turn in your application, get a physical and interview with perspective companies who wish to possibly employ you. I know if I were coming out of college and going to such a job fair where I would be scrutinized about my the certain skill set I present, I would show a little maturity and good judgement by not engaging in acts that would be hinder my employment. This has nothing to do with morality.

Holmes is already employed by the company I potentially want to be a part of, and didn't test positive at his job fair, regardless of whether the company was aware of his history. Recently he's had issues at home that has required his employer to help him.... just like any other employer who has an employee test positive for an illegal substance, they don't fire them the help them. If further "slip ups" occur that merit suspension and/or termination then Holmes would be out of a job.

In theory you are correct,...the reality is though,..playing in the National Football League is unlike any other career in the western hemisphere. Do not kid yourself,....in the industry that is professional sports (much like entertainment) exceptions and or opportunities are routinely given that would be unheard of in any other profession.


As for Harrison, it was he handled things that kept him in the fold. Unlike Ced Wilson, he reached out to the FO and got help with anger management.... Ced did not and Ced has had a history of such things, where as Harrison did not.

When was Wilson even given the option ? He was released before the ink on the police report dried. :lol: And do you want to know why,....because ultimately he was not the kind of player that would have any great impact upon the teams' success. And was therefore "expendable".


The details gentlemen... the details. As for the continued debate:

Holmes... On team and a proven commodity without durability issues

Harvin... Not on team without one NFL snap on his sheet with some serious health concerns.

Good points,...but how can you say with certainty that Harvin cannot and or will not be as productive as a Football player as Santo ? Along with being able to grow and mature as he (Santo) is as well ? (given the opportunity)

Again,....valet park the "High horse" homie. :lol:

stlrz d
04-23-2009, 07:18 PM
I don't want him for two reasons.

One: He is a self-centered "I'm above the rules" guy.

Two: He's a fast guy who's only success is catching the ball in the open field. The entire offense was designed around getting him in space. That won't work in the pros.

Harvin and DHB are the two WR busts expected to go round one, imo.


Now you know what,.. i can respect that Stlrz. As i understand your perspective whether i agree or not.

On the first note i'll agree with you about him being a bit self centered,..but i just don't have as big a problem with that as some.

In fact,... i want my DB's, WR's. and Qb's to have enough swagger to perform at a high level consistently as well as to be able to have short memories and henceforth avoid "slumps" or streaky play. As long as the player honors his organization, teammates, coaches and stays out of Legal trouble,...."knock yourself out".

In terms of of him playing in space,...this kid creates space. I don't think we will have to script the offense around him. His acceleration is incredible and he's got great hands, hand eye coordination, strength and plays with passion.

But i do agree with you however on DHB. In my opinion he's just a "specimen" with good straight line speed that doesn't run good routes and has inconsistent hands.

I've got no problem with swagger. What I don't want is someone (ie Burress) who thinks rules don't apply to him.

stlrz d
04-23-2009, 07:22 PM
As for Harrison, it was he handled things that kept him in the fold. Unlike Ced Wilson, he reached out to the FO and got help with anger management.... Ced did not and Ced has had a history of such things, where as Harrison did not.

When was Wilson even given the option ? He was released before the ink on the police report dried. :lol: And do you want to know why,....because ultimately he was not the kind of player that would have any great impact upon the teams' success. And was therefore "expendable".

Ced wasn't released after his first issue with that crazy woman, just in case you aren't aware.

steelers43
04-23-2009, 11:00 PM
I'm not saying he's not a risk but I am saying the risk is worth it at 32 imo.

We have Ben so I am not all that crazy about having a bunch of top paid wr's. I don't think they are warranted. Ben will make the receivers better. Keep drafting the Santonio's, Harvin's, Millers at the bottom of the rounds and grab players that drop like Sweed. Those receivers will be enough.

Use the money you save on wr's on building up the trenches once we develop someone.

Basically, work Holmes for five years, maybe franchise him a year, then let him go. Ditto for Harvin if we took him. Give Sweed a modest second deal as his first isn't a five year deal and you may be able to lock him up cheaper after year 3 than say Holmes after year 4.

I'm not interested in spending top dollar on any wr's unless we land a Larry FItzgerald type.

Harvin and HOlmes are nice receivers but I don't see them lasting through a second deal. Use them up and move on.

Flasteel
04-23-2009, 11:50 PM
I'm not saying he's not a risk but I am saying the risk is worth it at 32 imo.

We have Ben so I am not all that crazy about having a bunch of top paid wr's. I don't think they are warranted. Ben will make the receivers better. Keep drafting the Santonio's, Harvin's, Millers at the bottom of the rounds and grab players that drop like Sweed. Those receivers will be enough.

Use the money you save on wr's on building up the trenches once we develop someone.

Basically, work Holmes for five years, maybe franchise him a year, then let him go. Ditto for Harvin if we took him. Give Sweed a modest second deal as his first isn't a five year deal and you may be able to lock him up cheaper after year 3 than say Holmes after year 4.

I'm not interested in spending top dollar on any wr's unless we land a Larry FItzgerald type.

Harvin and HOlmes are nice receivers but I don't see them lasting through a second deal. Use them up and move on.

Logic in excess 43.

RuthlessBurgher
04-24-2009, 10:10 AM
I'm not saying he's not a risk but I am saying the risk is worth it at 32 imo.

We have Ben so I am not all that crazy about having a bunch of top paid wr's. I don't think they are warranted. Ben will make the receivers better. Keep drafting the Santonio's, Harvin's, Millers at the bottom of the rounds and grab players that drop like Sweed. Those receivers will be enough.

Use the money you save on wr's on building up the trenches once we develop someone.

Basically, work Holmes for five years, maybe franchise him a year, then let him go. Ditto for Harvin if we took him. Give Sweed a modest second deal as his first isn't a five year deal and you may be able to lock him up cheaper after year 3 than say Holmes after year 4.

I'm not interested in spending top dollar on any wr's unless we land a Larry FItzgerald type.

Harvin and HOlmes are nice receivers but I don't see them lasting through a second deal. Use them up and move on.

Let me get this straight...you are advocating letting talented former first round draft picks walk right when they are reaching their prime? I'll have to disagree with you there.

The Steeler way has been successful drafting studs in round 1 in the Colbert era, extending them when their rookie contract expires, then letting them walking when they are over 30 and past their prime...let others pay premium prices for players on the decline. Don't let them walk when their careers are still on the upswing, though!

feltdizz
04-24-2009, 10:47 AM
[quote="JUST-PLAIN-NASTY":1ke57oqs]If any player tests positive at the combine...He is off my board. The kid knows the test is coming and still didn't prepare. It means either he lacks intelligence, has a serious problem, or doesn't care. Don't want a guy like that on my team. I also feel that is the same way the Steelers look at it.

yet Holmes could drive around smoking weed before an important game against Dallas?
So do you want Holmes gone?

The Draft! We are talking about a kid who doesn't have enough intelligence not to do drugs before a test he knows is coming. It is the same as telling a child don't touch the stove when it is hot or you will get burned. The kid looks at you and does it anyway. And when Holmes tests positive...Then you can open your mouth! Until then...He made a stupid decision hanging out with friends who were smoking pot. Bark somewhere else![/quote:1ke57oqs]

When Holmes test positive? LOL!!! yeah... That line right there says it all buddy.
The arrest and blunts taken from his car and domestic charges early in his career, along with the admitted drug selling as a kid wasn't enough?

I'm a Holmes fan and I think he showed how a kid can overcome. I truly believe Tomlin is the kind of man that can change certain players lives.

Some of you guys are hilarious though... I love how players who are already on the team can tear the town up, slap women and smoke out while driving but a player in the draft has to be squeaky clean.

I think you guys have it backazzswards..... you are basically saying you want players to come to us clean and then wild out once they put on the black and gold. The whole "but they were already Steelers" makes zero sense. Wrong is wrong... or is it only wrong pre-draft?

Kinda reminds me of the guy who wants the "virgin angel" who presents herself as a pure church girl then you find out she was in porn after you put the ring on her finger...OUCH!!!! I would rather see the porn tape first then decide if I want to take that chance. :Boobs

and weed stays in the system for a while..like 3 months and Michael Phelps smokes and has 6 gold medals.

steelers43
04-24-2009, 11:03 AM
I'm not saying he's not a risk but I am saying the risk is worth it at 32 imo.

We have Ben so I am not all that crazy about having a bunch of top paid wr's. I don't think they are warranted. Ben will make the receivers better. Keep drafting the Santonio's, Harvin's, Millers at the bottom of the rounds and grab players that drop like Sweed. Those receivers will be enough.

Use the money you save on wr's on building up the trenches once we develop someone.

Basically, work Holmes for five years, maybe franchise him a year, then let him go. Ditto for Harvin if we took him. Give Sweed a modest second deal as his first isn't a five year deal and you may be able to lock him up cheaper after year 3 than say Holmes after year 4.

I'm not interested in spending top dollar on any wr's unless we land a Larry FItzgerald type.

Harvin and HOlmes are nice receivers but I don't see them lasting through a second deal. Use them up and move on.

Let me get this straight...you are advocating letting talented former first round draft picks walk right when they are reaching their prime? I'll have to disagree with you there.

The Steeler way has been successful drafting studs in round 1 in the Colbert era, extending them when their rookie contract expires, then letting them walking when they are over 30 and past their prime...let others pay premium prices for players on the decline. Don't let them walk when their careers are still on the upswing, though!
No, I am certainly not advocating that for all players.

I am saying, with Ben at QB, receivers can be found easier.

Now, in some cases, like Holmes, who has repeatedly shown his stupidiity and that he's always going to be a concern or a problem, I have absolutely zero interest in extending him at the current going rate for top wr's. If his agent thinks he is worth anything close to top money or Larry Fitz money, see ya. Draft another one.

I'd roll the dice on some later round guys with better size/speed combinations than Holmes and hopefully they are better people as well and can be developed and re-signed.

Do you really want to pay Holmes $10 mill per year? Is that really going to make our team better?

I just don't see a receiver like Holmes worth that money. A player like Fitzgerald or Johnson or Colston, etc. makes the QB better and are worth much more imo.

stlrz d
04-24-2009, 11:03 AM
[quote="JUST-PLAIN-NASTY":2t2j5ndq]If any player tests positive at the combine...He is off my board. The kid knows the test is coming and still didn't prepare. It means either he lacks intelligence, has a serious problem, or doesn't care. Don't want a guy like that on my team. I also feel that is the same way the Steelers look at it.

yet Holmes could drive around smoking weed before an important game against Dallas?
So do you want Holmes gone?

The Draft! We are talking about a kid who doesn't have enough intelligence not to do drugs before a test he knows is coming. It is the same as telling a child don't touch the stove when it is hot or you will get burned. The kid looks at you and does it anyway. And when Holmes tests positive...Then you can open your mouth! Until then...He made a stupid decision hanging out with friends who were smoking pot. Bark somewhere else!

When Holmes test positive? LOL!!! yeah... That line right there says it all buddy.
The arrest and blunts taken from his car and domestic charges early in his career, along with the admitted drug selling as a kid wasn't enough?

I'm a Holmes fan and I think he showed how a kid can overcome. I truly believe Tomlin is the kind of man that can change certain players lives.

Some of you guys are hilarious though... I love how players who are already on the team can tear the town up, slap women and smoke out while driving but a player in the draft has to be squeaky clean.

I think you guys have it backazzswards..... you are basically saying you want players to come to us clean and then wild out once they put on the black and gold. The whole "but they were already Steelers" makes zero sense. Wrong is wrong... or is it only wrong pre-draft?

Kinda reminds me of the guy who wants the "virgin angel" who presents herself as a pure church girl then you find out she was in porn after you put the ring on her finger...OUCH!!!! I would rather see the porn tape first then decide if I want to take that chance. :Boobs

and weed stays in the system for a while..like 3 months and Michael Phelps smokes and has 6 gold medals.[/quote:2t2j5ndq]

I think you're missing the point. When a guy is already on your team and messes up you don't have much choice but to try and work with him because there are salary cap implications and other factors that come into play. But when a guy is not yet on your team you can do your best to avoid having to deal with his **** by not drafting him.

And again, it's not a moral "he smoked pot" issue. It's a "he's dumb, made a bad decision and what if he makes the same dumb decision at a critical time and it hurts the team" issue.

steelers43
04-24-2009, 11:07 AM
[quote=feltdizz][quote="JUST-PLAIN-NASTY":2h8l01ev]If any player tests positive at the combine...He is off my board. The kid knows the test is coming and still didn't prepare. It means either he lacks intelligence, has a serious problem, or doesn't care. Don't want a guy like that on my team. I also feel that is the same way the Steelers look at it.

yet Holmes could drive around smoking weed before an important game against Dallas?
So do you want Holmes gone?

The Draft! We are talking about a kid who doesn't have enough intelligence not to do drugs before a test he knows is coming. It is the same as telling a child don't touch the stove when it is hot or you will get burned. The kid looks at you and does it anyway. And when Holmes tests positive...Then you can open your mouth! Until then...He made a stupid decision hanging out with friends who were smoking pot. Bark somewhere else!

When Holmes test positive? LOL!!! yeah... That line right there says it all buddy.
The arrest and blunts taken from his car and domestic charges early in his career, along with the admitted drug selling as a kid wasn't enough?

I'm a Holmes fan and I think he showed how a kid can overcome. I truly believe Tomlin is the kind of man that can change certain players lives.

Some of you guys are hilarious though... I love how players who are already on the team can tear the town up, slap women and smoke out while driving but a player in the draft has to be squeaky clean.

I think you guys have it backazzswards..... you are basically saying you want players to come to us clean and then wild out once they put on the black and gold. The whole "but they were already Steelers" makes zero sense. Wrong is wrong... or is it only wrong pre-draft?

Kinda reminds me of the guy who wants the "virgin angel" who presents herself as a pure church girl then you find out she was in porn after you put the ring on her finger...OUCH!!!! I would rather see the porn tape first then decide if I want to take that chance. :Boobs

and weed stays in the system for a while..like 3 months and Michael Phelps smokes and has 6 gold medals.[/quote:2h8l01ev]

I think you're missing the point. When a guy is already on your team and messes up you don't have much choice but to try and work with him because there are salary cap implications and other factors that come into play. But when a guy is not yet on your team you can do your best to avoid having to deal with his bad word by not drafting him.

And again, it's not a moral "he smoked pot" issue. It's a "he's dumb, made a bad decision and what if he makes the same dumb decision at a critical time and it hurts the team" issue.[/quote:2h8l01ev]

I'd say it is exactly the opposite. With Holmes and his repeated troubles, if he gets suspended, we have no recourse. The front office has already admitted to having worries about Holmes and his troubles. He's been arrested, what, four times since drafted? Once for riding and smoking and once for the cowardly act of hitting his second baby momma.

Now Harvin, if he's deemed a good person and doesn't have all of Holmes' baggage and the weed thing is his only issue, I'd say he is a better risk as the contract can be designed to protect us, thus lessening the contract concerns.

stlrz d
04-24-2009, 12:26 PM
You just helped me prove my point. You don't bring in a guy like Harvin because he has shown a disregard for the circumstances and could put us in a bad situation down the road.

RuthlessBurgher
04-24-2009, 12:41 PM
I'm not saying he's not a risk but I am saying the risk is worth it at 32 imo.

We have Ben so I am not all that crazy about having a bunch of top paid wr's. I don't think they are warranted. Ben will make the receivers better. Keep drafting the Santonio's, Harvin's, Millers at the bottom of the rounds and grab players that drop like Sweed. Those receivers will be enough.

Use the money you save on wr's on building up the trenches once we develop someone.

Basically, work Holmes for five years, maybe franchise him a year, then let him go. Ditto for Harvin if we took him. Give Sweed a modest second deal as his first isn't a five year deal and you may be able to lock him up cheaper after year 3 than say Holmes after year 4.

I'm not interested in spending top dollar on any wr's unless we land a Larry FItzgerald type.

Harvin and HOlmes are nice receivers but I don't see them lasting through a second deal. Use them up and move on.

Let me get this straight...you are advocating letting talented former first round draft picks walk right when they are reaching their prime? I'll have to disagree with you there.

The Steeler way has been successful drafting studs in round 1 in the Colbert era, extending them when their rookie contract expires, then letting them walking when they are over 30 and past their prime...let others pay premium prices for players on the decline. Don't let them walk when their careers are still on the upswing, though!
No, I am certainly not advocating that for all players.

I am saying, with Ben at QB, receivers can be found easier.

Now, in some cases, like Holmes, who has repeatedly shown his stupidiity and that he's always going to be a concern or a problem, I have absolutely zero interest in extending him at the current going rate for top wr's. If his agent thinks he is worth anything close to top money or Larry Fitz money, see ya. Draft another one.

I'd roll the dice on some later round guys with better size/speed combinations than Holmes and hopefully they are better people as well and can be developed and re-signed.

Do you really want to pay Holmes $10 mill per year? Is that really going to make our team better?

I just don't see a receiver like Holmes worth that money. A player like Fitzgerald or Johnson or Colston, etc. makes the QB better and are worth much more imo.

Holmes is not a Larry Fitzgerald type receiver, though. The only WR's in the league talented enough to command that type of contract would be Johnson & Johnson (Andre and Calvin). This has nothing to do with any legal issues, though...he is simply not that level of receiver on the field...few are.

JUST-PLAIN-NASTY
04-24-2009, 01:13 PM
When Holmes test positive? LOL!!! yeah... That line right there says it all buddy.
The arrest and blunts taken from his car and domestic charges early in his career, along with the admitted drug selling as a kid wasn't enough?

You act like Holmes is the only guy with a bad background in the NFL. Did Holmes test positive at the combine for drugs? Did Holmes test positive at a random drug test in the league? He did some bad things like selling drugs and smoking pot. As long as he keeps clean while he is a Steeler I don't care about his past. He had his "Oops" getting caught with the blunts! If he gets caught again I would show him the door too. The moron knew it was coming and din't have enough control or common sense to stay clean. Dum!

I'm a Holmes fan and I think he showed how a kid can overcome. I truly believe Tomlin is the kind of man that can change certain players lives.

Some of you guys are hilarious though... I love how players who are already on the team can tear the town up, slap women and smoke out while driving but a player in the draft has to be squeaky clean.

Don't group me. Now you look like you don't know your A s s from a hole in the ground! I ridiculed Rooney for his idiotic remark about why Wilson was cut but Harrison was given a slap on the wrist. There is favoritism on this team because there is a business side to it. It exist on all teams. I don't give a rats a s s if Ben gets caught with drugs. If he is a Steeler and he does it more than once...I would get rid of him too!!!

I think you guys have it backazzswards..... you are basically saying you want players to come to us clean and then wild out once they put on the black and gold. The whole "but they were already Steelers" makes zero sense. Wrong is wrong... or is it only wrong pre-draft?

There are players on this team who wouldn't be here if they did something they did in the past today. The fact of the matter is when they signed the dotted line they took on the responsibilty to be a professional. They were not a professional when they were on the streets selling drugs at 16. That is wrong, that was wrong, not fighting that. When you declare for the draft and the process starts...You become a professional. If you don't act like it...I don't want him as a Steeler.

Kinda reminds me of the guy who wants the "virgin angel" who presents herself as a pure church girl then you find out she was in porn after you put the ring on her finger...OUCH!!!! I would rather see the porn tape first then decide if I want to take that chance. :Boobs

Me too!

and weed stays in the system for a while..like 3 months and Michael Phelps smokes and has 6 gold medals.

If Phelps tested positve during the Olympics he should have to forefit the metals. If he was stupid enough do smoke during competition he doesn't deserve the metals. If Holmes is stupid enough to test positive after what happened to him he will deserve what he gets. But if I'm going to pay a kid millions of dollars to come help my team win a championship...It won't be the kid who showed no responsibilty 1 week into being called a professional football player. That is the point.

Flasteel
04-24-2009, 02:51 PM
[quote="JUST-PLAIN-NASTY":2fkjq0g6]If any player tests positive at the combine...He is off my board. The kid knows the test is coming and still didn't prepare. It means either he lacks intelligence, has a serious problem, or doesn't care. Don't want a guy like that on my team. I also feel that is the same way the Steelers look at it.

yet Holmes could drive around smoking weed before an important game against Dallas?
So do you want Holmes gone?

The Draft! We are talking about a kid who doesn't have enough intelligence not to do drugs before a test he knows is coming. It is the same as telling a child don't touch the stove when it is hot or you will get burned. The kid looks at you and does it anyway. And when Holmes tests positive...Then you can open your mouth! Until then...He made a stupid decision hanging out with friends who were smoking pot. Bark somewhere else!

When Holmes test positive? LOL!!! yeah... That line right there says it all buddy.
The arrest and blunts taken from his car and domestic charges early in his career, along with the admitted drug selling as a kid wasn't enough?

I'm a Holmes fan and I think he showed how a kid can overcome. I truly believe Tomlin is the kind of man that can change certain players lives.

Some of you guys are hilarious though... I love how players who are already on the team can tear the town up, slap women and smoke out while driving but a player in the draft has to be squeaky clean.

I think you guys have it backazzswards..... you are basically saying you want players to come to us clean and then wild out once they put on the black and gold. The whole "but they were already Steelers" makes zero sense. Wrong is wrong... or is it only wrong pre-draft?

Kinda reminds me of the guy who wants the "virgin angel" who presents herself as a pure church girl then you find out she was in porn after you put the ring on her finger...OUCH!!!! I would rather see the porn tape first then decide if I want to take that chance. :Boobs

and weed stays in the system for a while..like 3 months and Michael Phelps smokes and has 6 gold medals.[/quote:2fkjq0g6]

Let me put it to you this way. You marry a girl and for several years she is the epitome of a great wife. One night she does something completely out of character. She goes out with her friends and gets tanked, comes home and starts yelling at you for no good reason and maybe throws a few household items in your direction. Do you file for divorce?

Let's say there's now a room full of eligible women to date who are all very attractive, but there's this one smokin' hot chick in the corner who catches your eye. The problem is, she's all fu@ked up and starts slurring and cursing at you when you go up to talk with her. Do you choose this girl to pursue or maybe turn your attention to the room full of other attractive women, even though they aren't quite as hot?

By the way Dizz, pot can stay in your system as little as a few days if you are a light smoker and up to 30 days if you are a chronic user of the chronic. Three months is way beyond the amount of time THC stays in anyone's system.

SteelCzar76
04-24-2009, 03:12 PM
We could debate this for years, as both sides have valid points. But the more i think about it,... at the end of the day this kid's (Harvin) talent will win out.

He'll be off the board before 32, drafted by a F/O confident not only in themselves, but their organization, and their coaches and locker room leadership.

And they, (along with Harvin's production) will make every team that passed upon him look foolish.

RuthlessBurgher
04-24-2009, 03:28 PM
[quote="JUST-PLAIN-NASTY":2sc51k4l]If any player tests positive at the combine...He is off my board. The kid knows the test is coming and still didn't prepare. It means either he lacks intelligence, has a serious problem, or doesn't care. Don't want a guy like that on my team. I also feel that is the same way the Steelers look at it.

yet Holmes could drive around smoking weed before an important game against Dallas?
So do you want Holmes gone?

The Draft! We are talking about a kid who doesn't have enough intelligence not to do drugs before a test he knows is coming. It is the same as telling a child don't touch the stove when it is hot or you will get burned. The kid looks at you and does it anyway. And when Holmes tests positive...Then you can open your mouth! Until then...He made a stupid decision hanging out with friends who were smoking pot. Bark somewhere else!

When Holmes test positive? LOL!!! yeah... That line right there says it all buddy.
The arrest and blunts taken from his car and domestic charges early in his career, along with the admitted drug selling as a kid wasn't enough?

I'm a Holmes fan and I think he showed how a kid can overcome. I truly believe Tomlin is the kind of man that can change certain players lives.

Some of you guys are hilarious though... I love how players who are already on the team can tear the town up, slap women and smoke out while driving but a player in the draft has to be squeaky clean.

I think you guys have it backazzswards..... you are basically saying you want players to come to us clean and then wild out once they put on the black and gold. The whole "but they were already Steelers" makes zero sense. Wrong is wrong... or is it only wrong pre-draft?

Kinda reminds me of the guy who wants the "virgin angel" who presents herself as a pure church girl then you find out she was in porn after you put the ring on her finger...OUCH!!!! I would rather see the porn tape first then decide if I want to take that chance. :Boobs

and weed stays in the system for a while..like 3 months and Michael Phelps smokes and has 6 gold medals.

Let me put it to you this way. You marry a girl and for several years she is the epitome of a great wife. One night she does something completely out of character. She goes out with her friends and gets tanked, comes home and starts yelling at you for no good reason and maybe throws a few household items in your direction. Do you file for divorce?

Let's say there's now a room full of eligible women to date who are all very attractive, but there's this one smokin' hot chick in the corner who catches your eye. The problem is, she's all fu@ked up and starts slurring and cursing at you when you go up to talk with her. Do you choose this girl to pursue or maybe turn your attention to the room full of other attractive women, even though they aren't quite as hot?

By the way Dizz, pot can stay in your system as little as a few days if you are a light smoker and up to 30 days if you are a chronic user of the chronic. Three months is way beyond the amount of time THC stays in anyone's system.[/quote:2sc51k4l]

I know the Bengals would go after the one smokin' hot chick in the corner who is all fu@ked up and starts slurring and cursing at you when you go up to talk with her. :lol:

:bungalssuck

feltdizz
04-24-2009, 06:56 PM
Let me put it to you this way. You marry a girl and for several years she is the epitome of a great wife. One night she does something completely out of character. She goes out with her friends and gets tanked, comes home and starts yelling at you for no good reason and maybe throws a few household items in your direction. Do you file for divorce?

Let's say there's now a room full of eligible women to date who are all very attractive, but there's this one smokin' hot chick in the corner who catches your eye. The problem is, she's all fu@ked up and starts slurring and cursing at you when you go up to talk with her. Do you choose this girl to pursue or maybe turn your attention to the room full of other attractive women, even though they aren't quite as hot?

By the way Dizz, pot can stay in your system as little as a few days if you are a light smoker and up to 30 days if you are a chronic user of the chronic. Three months is way beyond the amount of time THC stays in anyone's system.

Honestly... I want the ugly side of a hot chick before I put a ring on her finger...
I also must see a hot chick at her worst.. like, first thing in the morning with no makeup worst...

I would be highly PO'ed if my wife turned into some Exorcist, fatal attraction chick after I put the ring on her finger and we have kids.... talk about false advertising.

I see the Harvin situation the same way. Now we know what to put in his contract....
Imagine if he didn't get busted and we got the "good Harvin" and then he gets busted a few times when we really need him.

Imagine if Holmes suspension cost us the Dallas game and maybe the playoffs? Then we don't sweep Holmes issues under the rug so easily. Same with Harrison... what if he got 4 games over that baby mama stuff?

I know it's a red flag but it's also a blessing in disguise IMO. At least for those who try to draft Harvin and now know what they are working with.

I'm not saying I want all my players with arrest or positive test... I just think the FO and coaches don't exclude a player for this... especially with so many players getting caught smoking... it happen a lot more then we hear of.

stlrz d
04-24-2009, 07:26 PM
We could debate this for years, as both sides have valid points. But the more i think about it,... at the end of the day this kid's (Harvin) talent will win out.

He'll be off the board before 32, drafted by a F/O confident not only in themselves, but their organization, and their coaches and locker room leadership.

And they, (along with Harvin's production) will make every team that passed upon him look foolish.

Ha ha! Yeah, that's not the Steelers organization for sure! :roll:

I would say they are actually MORE confident than the team that takes Harvin. They know they're good enough to win by not sacrificing character for talent.

papillon
04-24-2009, 09:41 PM
When Holmes test positive? LOL!!! yeah... That line right there says it all buddy.
The arrest and blunts taken from his car and domestic charges early in his career, along with the admitted drug selling as a kid wasn't enough?

You act like Holmes is the only guy with a bad background in the NFL. Did Holmes test positive at the combine for drugs? Did Holmes test positive at a random drug test in the league? He did some bad things like selling drugs and smoking pot. As long as he keeps clean while he is a Steeler I don't care about his past. He had his "Oops" getting caught with the blunts! If he gets caught again I would show him the door too. The moron knew it was coming and din't have enough control or common sense to stay clean. Dum!

I'm a Holmes fan and I think he showed how a kid can overcome. I truly believe Tomlin is the kind of man that can change certain players lives.

Some of you guys are hilarious though... I love how players who are already on the team can tear the town up, slap women and smoke out while driving but a player in the draft has to be squeaky clean.

Don't group me. Now you look like you don't know your A s s from a hole in the ground! I ridiculed Rooney for his idiotic remark about why Wilson was cut but Harrison was given a slap on the wrist. There is favoritism on this team because there is a business side to it. It exist on all teams. I don't give a rats a s s if Ben gets caught with drugs. If he is a Steeler and he does it more than once...I would get rid of him too!!!

I think you guys have it backazzswards..... you are basically saying you want players to come to us clean and then wild out once they put on the black and gold. The whole "but they were already Steelers" makes zero sense. Wrong is wrong... or is it only wrong pre-draft?

There are players on this team who wouldn't be here if they did something they did in the past today. The fact of the matter is when they signed the dotted line they took on the responsibilty to be a professional. They were not a professional when they were on the streets selling drugs at 16. That is wrong, that was wrong, not fighting that. When you declare for the draft and the process starts...You become a professional. If you don't act like it...I don't want him as a Steeler.

Kinda reminds me of the guy who wants the "virgin angel" who presents herself as a pure church girl then you find out she was in porn after you put the ring on her finger...OUCH!!!! I would rather see the porn tape first then decide if I want to take that chance. :Boobs

Me too!

and weed stays in the system for a while..like 3 months and Michael Phelps smokes and has 6 gold medals.

If Phelps tested positve during the Olympics he should have to forefit the metals. If he was stupid enough do smoke during competition he doesn't deserve the metals. If Holmes is stupid enough to test positive after what happened to him he will deserve what he gets. But if I'm going to pay a kid millions of dollars to come help my team win a championship...It won't be the kid who showed no responsibilty 1 week into being called a professional football player. That is the point.


JPN,

You could have wrapped this up with the oldie, but goodie..."Stupid is, as stupid does"...Just sayin. :P

Pappy

steelcityrules!!
04-24-2009, 09:43 PM
good god, all this chatter about harvin.
I can't see him as a steeler at ALL.

this dude is a less-talented ocho stinko... and is completely wrong for our system.
here is a list of players that I would choose before young percy at #32:
-mack
-unger
-robiskie
-wood
-butler
-V.davis
-gilbert
-beatty
-loadholt
-the waterboy
-my 62 year old dad
-lil kim
-webster (not mike, the little guy from the show)
-lisa laport from HGTV


:stirpot

JUST-PLAIN-NASTY
04-25-2009, 09:43 AM
When Holmes test positive? LOL!!! yeah... That line right there says it all buddy.
The arrest and blunts taken from his car and domestic charges early in his career, along with the admitted drug selling as a kid wasn't enough?

You act like Holmes is the only guy with a bad background in the NFL. Did Holmes test positive at the combine for drugs? Did Holmes test positive at a random drug test in the league? He did some bad things like selling drugs and smoking pot. As long as he keeps clean while he is a Steeler I don't care about his past. He had his "Oops" getting caught with the blunts! If he gets caught again I would show him the door too. The moron knew it was coming and din't have enough control or common sense to stay clean. Dum!

I'm a Holmes fan and I think he showed how a kid can overcome. I truly believe Tomlin is the kind of man that can change certain players lives.

Some of you guys are hilarious though... I love how players who are already on the team can tear the town up, slap women and smoke out while driving but a player in the draft has to be squeaky clean.

Don't group me. Now you look like you don't know your A s s from a hole in the ground! I ridiculed Rooney for his idiotic remark about why Wilson was cut but Harrison was given a slap on the wrist. There is favoritism on this team because there is a business side to it. It exist on all teams. I don't give a rats a s s if Ben gets caught with drugs. If he is a Steeler and he does it more than once...I would get rid of him too!!!

I think you guys have it backazzswards..... you are basically saying you want players to come to us clean and then wild out once they put on the black and gold. The whole "but they were already Steelers" makes zero sense. Wrong is wrong... or is it only wrong pre-draft?

There are players on this team who wouldn't be here if they did something they did in the past today. The fact of the matter is when they signed the dotted line they took on the responsibilty to be a professional. They were not a professional when they were on the streets selling drugs at 16. That is wrong, that was wrong, not fighting that. When you declare for the draft and the process starts...You become a professional. If you don't act like it...I don't want him as a Steeler.

Kinda reminds me of the guy who wants the "virgin angel" who presents herself as a pure church girl then you find out she was in porn after you put the ring on her finger...OUCH!!!! I would rather see the porn tape first then decide if I want to take that chance. :Boobs

Me too!

and weed stays in the system for a while..like 3 months and Michael Phelps smokes and has 6 gold medals.

If Phelps tested positve during the Olympics he should have to forefit the metals. If he was stupid enough do smoke during competition he doesn't deserve the metals. If Holmes is stupid enough to test positive after what happened to him he will deserve what he gets. But if I'm going to pay a kid millions of dollars to come help my team win a championship...It won't be the kid who showed no responsibilty 1 week into being called a professional football player. That is the point.


JPN,

You could have wrapped this up with the oldie, but goodie..."Stupid is, as stupid does"...Just sayin. :P

Pappy
That's funny Pap...You know the "Forrest" reference did do a fly by in my thought process. You are correct...Your line does say it best!

Another thing some of us are not considering is the new rule about the commish punishing teams who take players with problems. It is an interesting thought because there is a positive test recorded in the process already. There were discussions that involved punishment for drafting players who had documented incidents in college. I don't know if the new rule would include a situation like this. I still don't believe this rule has any merrit since the Bengals & Cowboys haven't received any punishment. I thought for sure the Pac Man incident would have been the first example.

RuthlessBurgher
04-25-2009, 10:33 AM
Imagine if Holmes suspension cost us the Dallas game and maybe the playoffs? Then we don't sweep Holmes issues under the rug so easily.

For what it's worth, Santonio was deactivated for the Giants game, which we lost, not the Dallas game, which we won.