PDA

View Full Version : Trade Casey Hampton?



calmkiller
04-21-2009, 10:35 AM
After all the thoughts and discussions we have been having here about the OL and DL and our salary cap what does everyone think about possibly trading Casey on draft day? We could team up with a team moving to the 3-4. Pick up a first day pick and possibly draft a replacement. He is only on the field 1st and 2nd down and commands a huge cap number for it. We could save cap space, gain a draft pick which could possibly be used for a replacement. Let Hoke be a stop gap for this season while a rookie learns. What do you all think of the idea and what would you ask for Casey?

Oviedo
04-21-2009, 10:39 AM
Personally I think if you could get a 3rd or 4th round pick it would be a great move. Casey is on borrowed time with this team and getting a mid round pick for a two down player would be great.

papillon
04-21-2009, 10:43 AM
I wouldn't be against it either, but, I'd only trade him to the NFC and, hopefully, to a team that isn't a SB contender.

Pappy

SteelCzar76
04-21-2009, 10:51 AM
After all the thoughts and discussions we have been having here about the OL and DL and our salary cap what does everyone think about possibly trading Casey on draft day? We could team up with a team moving to the 3-4. Pick up a first day pick and possibly draft a replacement. He is only on the field 1st and 2nd down and commands a huge cap number for it. We could save cap space, gain a draft pick which could possibly be used for a replacement. Let Hoke be a stop gap for this season while a rookie learns. What do you all think of the idea and what would you ask for Casey?


That's a tough one,..Hamp is getting a bit 'long in the tooth' by football standards and is "soaking up" a good deal of Cap space. And as we know been having some issues with conditioning as of late,...but the man remains an elite talent in terms of being a space eating 3-4 NT.

However,...i agree that Hoke could handle the spot well for at least another two seasons (Time enough to bring in a young prospect) and if we could get a 2nd or 3rd for Hamp,....i'd be in. (But for no less than a 3rd)

ANPSTEEL
04-21-2009, 10:53 AM
I agree with all points being made-

Hoke can fill in on a short term basis, and the team should be able to pick up Casey's replacement early on.

I'd also look at trading Foote, if I were the Steeler front office. By trading him, you clear some cap space- and aquire a 3rd or 4th rd pick, imo.

phillyesq
04-21-2009, 10:54 AM
I don't like the idea of trading Casey. I think the most you could expect would be a third round pick, and I doubt that a third round pick would step in and be as effective as Hampton. Even though he isn't what he used to be, he is still very effective against the run -- just look at the rankings of the D in that respect.

calmkiller
04-21-2009, 11:06 AM
I don't like the idea of trading Casey. I think the most you could expect would be a third round pick, and I doubt that a third round pick would step in and be as effective as Hampton. Even though he isn't what he used to be, he is still very effective against the run -- just look at the rankings of the D in that respect.

Well the pick that we receive doesn't have to be the pick we use on his replacement. We could use the first or second rounder for his replacement then trade him and get a pick for whatever other position.

Oviedo
04-21-2009, 11:24 AM
Don't underestimate another value of trading Hampton. I t would send a very loud message to the team that certain behaviors and attitudes do not fly in "Tomlin world." That could be a huge motivator as we try to go for two in a row.

aggiebones
04-21-2009, 11:26 AM
You got a guy typically distracted in the offseason that is going to OTAs. He could come in great shape and desire since his contract is coming to a close. He appears to need money since he said he needed the workout bonus. He could have a GREAT year. The Steelers don't let guys go when they have leverage. If they do draft a DT in the first round which I doubt, they'll likely keep 3 and use Hoke some at maybe DE and suffer at another position for 1 season with extra depth. Then next season let either Hampton or Hoke go.
I think Snackie has some goood time left in da Burgh. Don't be too quick to let 30-34 yr olds go. We can win another Super Bowl. I think we keep things in tact as much as possible to get another try at it.

AngryAsian
04-21-2009, 11:44 AM
You got a guy typically distracted in the offseason that is going to OTAs. He could come in great shape and desire since his contract is coming to a close. He appears to need money since he said he needed the workout bonus. He could have a GREAT year. The Steelers don't let guys go when they have leverage. If they do draft a DT in the first round which I doubt, they'll likely keep 3 and use Hoke some at maybe DE and suffer at another position for 1 season with extra depth. Then next season let either Hampton or Hoke go.
I think Snackie has some goood time left in da Burgh. Don't be too quick to let 30-34 yr olds go. We can win another Super Bowl. I think we keep things in tact as much as possible to get another try at it.


I have to agree with this line of thought. I think Tomlin has already sent a message that a SuperBowl Hangover will not be a part of the Steeler's 2009 season. If there's anything that the fan base has learned about its young and very driven HC, is that he's not one for complacency. With this upcoming season's schedule, a SuperBowl team pretty much in tact and with returning injured players that didn't have an opportunity to contribute a lot last season (namely FWP and Mendy)... we are again in the hunt for another championship.

If SNACK comes in in-shape and ready to produce, why trade him. I agree that the tread on his tires are wearing a little thin. I wish he would go with Troy to Troy's offseason workout at the Marinovich Camp, but regardless, if he comes in ready to play and in good condition, why risk the chemistry of our SB calibre team? This time of year we all are trying to thump our brains on how creative our FO could get with the draft, since its practically the only way we build this team. But I'd like to see us hoist yet another championship trophy before we say bu-bye to SNACK. Bmac and Nate gone... and winning it all last year with the toughest schedule and depleted ranks due in injury... now we have a very easy schedule and possibly going in full strength? I want as much SB chemistry as possible for a repeat.

calmkiller
04-21-2009, 12:15 PM
I know what you are saying Asian but I think back to when we lost Hampton for the year when he hurt his Knee. Hoke came in and our Run defense improved. I made that point then and everyone gave me crap about how amazing Hampton was. But stats are stats. The main Cog in the Dline is Aaron Smith. When he went down the D went to pot. My point is that if he is valued highly now make a move and get the worth, instead of letting him walk. I would rather get a 3rd rounder now then a 5th round comp in two years. Maybe someone will give us more? Look at what Denver got or Cutler....CUTLER!!

Oviedo
04-21-2009, 12:18 PM
I know what you are saying Asian but I think back to when we lost Hampton for the year when he hurt his Knee. Hoke came in and our Run defense improved. I made that point then and everyone gave me crap about how amazing Hampton was. But stats are stats. The main Cog in the Dline is Aaron Smith. When he went down the D went to pot. My point is that if he is valued highly now make a move and get the worth, instead of letting him walk. I would rather get a 3rd rounder now then a 5th round comp in two years. Maybe someone will give us more? Look at what Denver got or Cutler....CUTLER!!

$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

Hampton is not the key to our defense and a trade would make sense. Green Bay is moving to a 3-4 and I'd take their 4th round pick without hesitation.

RuthlessBurgher
04-21-2009, 12:34 PM
Something like this?

Pick 2.64, pick 5.168, and Casey Hampton to Buffalo for pick 2.42 and Roscoe Parrish.

Moving up 22 spots in the second round would assure you of getting a guy like Ron Brace, Jarron Gilbert, Alphonso Smith, Louis Delmas, Eric Wood, Max Unger, Jamon Meredith, etc. in the early second round. Hoke could start in '09 until the rookie NT is ready for full time duty at some point in 2010 (with Hampton gone, if they don't get Brace in round 2, they would have to use the 3rd or 4th pick on a NT...but the need for a WR with returnability would be gone with the pickup of Parrish in the deal).

The Bills don't play a 3-4, but could you imagine if Posluszny had Marcus Stroud and Casey Hampton in front of him in the 4-3? That would rival the Williams boys in Minnesota as a run-stuffing DT pair.

Oviedo
04-21-2009, 01:09 PM
Something like this?

Pick 2.64, pick 5.168, and Casey Hampton to Buffalo for pick 2.42 and Roscoe Parrish.

Moving up 22 spots in the second round would assure you of getting a guy like Ron Brace, Jarron Gilbert, Alphonso Smith, Louis Delmas, Eric Wood, Max Unger, Jamon Meredith, etc. in the early second round. Hoke could start in '09 until the rookie NT is ready for full time duty at some point in 2010 (with Hampton gone, if they don't get Brace in round 2, they would have to use the 3rd or 4th pick on a NT...but the need for a WR with returnability would be gone with the pickup of Parrish in the deal).

The Bills don't play a 3-4, but could you imagine if Posluszny had Marcus Stroud and Casey Hampton in front of him in the 4-3? That would rival the Williams boys in Minnesota as a run-stuffing DT pair.

I'd do that trade.

D Rock
04-21-2009, 01:11 PM
In D Rock's fantasy land...


the Steelers are trying very hard to move the combo of Hampton/Foote for an early second to a team in need of experienced 3-4 players. Guaranteed starting NT for 2 or 3 years and a linebacker for probably 5 or 6 years? I think a team would give up a 2nd rounder for that.


Then we can pick up Hampton's replacement with that early second (Ron Brace, Moala), get a new DE (Gilbert), an OL (Unger, Wood). And still snag whoever we were originally targetting at the end of round 2.




Green Bay has the 9th pick in round 2.

They could certainly use Big Snack. This would also give the the LB combo of Kampman, Foote, Barnett, Hawk. They should absolutely salivate thinking about that.


KC gave up their 2nd already. Perhaps their 3rd and 4th? Two starters for your new defense at draft positions you have absolutely no idea whether they will even be on the team after one year?

The Steelers could then have a ton of freedom to package picks and move around to get their guys.

KC would have a NT....they have no one to fit that spot right now. They could add Curry in round 1.

Curry, Foote, Vrabel, and Johnson.


Both of these teams, IMO, would be dumb to turn down these chances. And the Steelers can unload two players who aren't in their long term plans for much longer.





are there any other teams switching to a 3-4 this year?

RuthlessBurgher
04-21-2009, 01:15 PM
are there any other teams switching to a 3-4 this year?

Denver.

D Rock
04-21-2009, 01:26 PM
are there any other teams switching to a 3-4 this year?

Denver.


ohhhh yeahhh. Denverrrrrrrrr.

How was their defense last year? :roll:

I think they might possibly in the market for some experienced 3-4 fellas.

They have a mid-2nd and two mid-3rds. Get after it Steelers!


only problem is that they would have to be working on this trade now, as both Hampton and Foote are in their last years of their contracts and any team would probably want to have an extension in place before pulling the trigger.

Chadman
04-21-2009, 06:39 PM
After all the thoughts and discussions we have been having here about the OL and DL and our salary cap what does everyone think about possibly trading Casey on draft day? We could team up with a team moving to the 3-4. Pick up a first day pick and possibly draft a replacement. He is only on the field 1st and 2nd down and commands a huge cap number for it. We could save cap space, gain a draft pick which could possibly be used for a replacement. Let Hoke be a stop gap for this season while a rookie learns. What do you all think of the idea and what would you ask for Casey?

NO!

Did we all suddenly forget that, despite being a fat lump of lard, Casey was one of the reasons the Steelers have the #1 Defence in the NFL?

Anyone remember how Kimo went 'as a stop gap' for Joel Steed before Casey was drafted?

Ted Washington was 40 & 45000lbs when he retired wasn't he? He was still effective as a 3-4 NT at that time too.

Despite being 'old & fat', the dude is the best 3-4 NT in the NFL. Yeah- draft a young back-up, but if you get rid of anyone- get rid of Hoke.

steelblood
04-21-2009, 06:45 PM
I don't know. Hoke did fill in well for a while a few years ago, but Hoke is getting older and they did have to commit more players to the LOS to make that work. Hampton was very effective last year.

I suppose that it is unlikely that we'll resign Hampton. Someone will overpay for his services. So, with that in mind, it might not be a bad idea to trade him. Too bad I don't really like any of the NTs that we'll have a shot at drafting this year.

Discipline of Steel
04-21-2009, 07:28 PM
I don't know. Hoke did fill in well for a while a few years ago, but Hoke is getting older and they did have to commit more players to the LOS to make that work. Hampton was very effective last year.

I suppose that it is unlikely that we'll resign Hampton. Someone will overpay for his services. So, with that in mind, it might not be a bad idea to trade him. Too bad I don't really like any of the NTs that we'll have a shot at drafting this year.

Fili! Fili! Fili! Then trade Hampton and draft picks for an extra 2nd.

RuthlessBurgher
04-21-2009, 07:59 PM
I don't know. Hoke did fill in well for a while a few years ago, but Hoke is getting older and they did have to commit more players to the LOS to make that work. Hampton was very effective last year.

I suppose that it is unlikely that we'll resign Hampton. Someone will overpay for his services. So, with that in mind, it might not be a bad idea to trade him. Too bad I don't really like any of the NTs that we'll have a shot at drafting this year.

Fili! Fili! Fili! Then trade Hampton and draft picks for an extra 2nd.

If we drafted Moala, I think he would be the heir apparent to Aaron Smith, not the heir apparent to Casey Hampton. He reminds me more of Kimo von Oelhoffen than his cousin Haloti Ngata.

Discipline of Steel
04-21-2009, 08:10 PM
I don't know. Hoke did fill in well for a while a few years ago, but Hoke is getting older and they did have to commit more players to the LOS to make that work. Hampton was very effective last year.

I suppose that it is unlikely that we'll resign Hampton. Someone will overpay for his services. So, with that in mind, it might not be a bad idea to trade him. Too bad I don't really like any of the NTs that we'll have a shot at drafting this year.

Fili! Fili! Fili! Then trade Hampton and draft picks for an extra 2nd.

If we drafted Moala, I think he would be the heir apparent to Aaron Smith, not the heir apparent to Casey Hampton. He reminds me more of Kimo von Oelhoffen than his cousin Haloti Ngata.

Thats fine with me, he could play in Kiesels spot. I just think he is going to be awesome and he comes in at the perfect time.

steelcityrules!!
04-21-2009, 08:50 PM
Trading Hampton for anything less than a real high 2nd rounder is insanity.
giving away larry foote, a two-time starting superbowl ILB on the perennial top defense in the league, year after year as just a tickler to get that deal done is also just nuts.

I will reiterate... foote is waaay underrated. if we can get value for him in a trade, then fine. If not, he is a tweaked knee from starting for farrior and knows lebeau's defense like few other.

would much rather cut kirtchke or hoke or one of the other back-up linebackers and draft another big young NT in round 4-6.

Flasteel
04-21-2009, 08:53 PM
No. Keep the fat man.

BURGH86STEEL
04-21-2009, 09:49 PM
I really do not understand why people want to trade Hampton at this point. Why make an area of the team that has pretty good depth for this season and turn it into a weakness? Having quality depth is important in the NFL.

The only way I can see the team trading him is if they get an offer they cannot refuse or they are able to draft a sure thing at NT for this up coming season. I doubt either happens.

papillon
04-21-2009, 10:02 PM
Okay, here we go, I need some help. The Steelers just released Gary Russell probably for two reasons, one to clear room to sign Batch to a vet minimum contract for a quarterback and, two, because, he was at a friend's house that was raided for marijuana. Forgetting the marijuana part lets move on to the salary/cap part.

To sign Batch we had to release Russell to free up slightly under a million dollars to sign him. The Steelers have 9 draft picks this year. How do they sign any of these guys without releasing some real money? Wouldn't trading aging veterans (as distasteful as it may be) be the way to free up cap space for rookies and younger players?

It's a by-product of how the Steelers run the team. When you draft and groom your own players and give them their one big payday, invariably, you will lose them at the end of their career. Unless, of course, they take very, very cap friendly deals like Bettis.

Hampton, Ward, Hoke, Smith, Kirschke, Kiesel are all about to get on with their life's work within the next 2-3 years. Why not deal them now while they may have value to another team looking for some veteran leadership and getting a draft pick or two?

We would all like to keep them all, but, it isn't feasible in today's NFL. The Steelers have real issues with capology coming soon. Maybe, they're just keeping the team together for one more run at a Super Bowl and then dismantle it except for a few.

I didn't like the Harrison contract when I saw and I'm liking it even less now as reality is setting in. He is taking up a big chunk of cap space.

Pappy

steelcityrules!!
04-21-2009, 10:27 PM
Okay, here we go, I need some help. The Steelers just released Gary Russell probably for two reasons, one to clear room to sign Batch to a vet minimum contract for a quarterback and, two, because, he was at a friend's house that was raided for marijuana. Forgetting the marijuana part lets move on to the salary/cap part.

To sign Batch we had to release Russell to free up slightly under a million dollars to sign him. The Steelers have 9 draft picks this year. How do they sign any of these guys without releasing some real money? Wouldn't trading aging veterans (as distasteful as it may be) be the way to free up cap space for rookies and younger players?

It's a by-product of how the Steelers run the team. When you draft and groom your own players and give them their one big payday, invariably, you will lose them at the end of their career. Unless, of course, they take very, very cap friendly deals like Bettis.

Hampton, Ward, Hoke, Smith, Kirschke, Kiesel are all about to get on with their life's work within the next 2-3 years. Why not deal them now while they may have value to another team looking for some veteran leadership and getting a draft pick or two?

We would all like to keep them all, but, it isn't feasible in today's NFL. The Steelers have real issues with capology coming soon. Maybe, they're just keeping the team together for one more run at a Super Bowl and then dismantle it except for a few.

I didn't like the Harrison contract when I saw and I'm liking it even less now as reality is setting in. He is taking up a big chunk of cap space.

Pappy

I see your point for sure Pap, but to be honest... we are at the pinnacle right NOW.
-we have a two-time superbowl winning QB who has an obvious penchant for getting his arse killed in the backfield.
-we have THE defensive guru running the show, and he's in his 70's. too bad we can't stick his brain into darren perry's body and get another 45 years.
-farrior, hampton, smith, and keisel are all still healthy and crucial at this time to us dominating on defense. we need to draft to replace them eventually, but we should keep the line intact right now.
-our new offensive weapons should be all shined up and ready for year two, and we have a real chance at not only leading the league again on defense, but being top 5 in offense too.

I'm not against trading hampton for a great ROI, but to give up a truly coveted 3-4 NT for a mere mid-rounder AND toss in foote just seems silly to me.

these guys have another trophy to win, as does my man hines.

papillon
04-21-2009, 10:38 PM
Okay, here we go, I need some help. The Steelers just released Gary Russell probably for two reasons, one to clear room to sign Batch to a vet minimum contract for a quarterback and, two, because, he was at a friend's house that was raided for marijuana. Forgetting the marijuana part lets move on to the salary/cap part.

To sign Batch we had to release Russell to free up slightly under a million dollars to sign him. The Steelers have 9 draft picks this year. How do they sign any of these guys without releasing some real money? Wouldn't trading aging veterans (as distasteful as it may be) be the way to free up cap space for rookies and younger players?

It's a by-product of how the Steelers run the team. When you draft and groom your own players and give them their one big payday, invariably, you will lose them at the end of their career. Unless, of course, they take very, very cap friendly deals like Bettis.

Hampton, Ward, Hoke, Smith, Kirschke, Kiesel are all about to get on with their life's work within the next 2-3 years. Why not deal them now while they may have value to another team looking for some veteran leadership and getting a draft pick or two?

We would all like to keep them all, but, it isn't feasible in today's NFL. The Steelers have real issues with capology coming soon. Maybe, they're just keeping the team together for one more run at a Super Bowl and then dismantle it except for a few.

I didn't like the Harrison contract when I saw and I'm liking it even less now as reality is setting in. He is taking up a big chunk of cap space.

Pappy

I see your point for sure Pap, but to be honest... we are at the pinnacle right NOW.
-we have a two-time superbowl winning QB who has an obvious penchant for getting his arse killed in the backfield.
-we have THE defensive guru running the show, and he's in his 70's. too bad we can't stick his brain into darren perry's body and get another 45 years.
-farrior, hampton, smith, and keisel are all still healthy and crucial at this time to us dominating on defense. we need to draft to replace them eventually, but we should keep the line intact right now.
-our new offensive weapons should be all shined up and ready for year two, and we have a real chance at not only leading the league again on defense, but being top 5 in offense too.

I'm not against trading hampton for a great ROI, but to give up a truly coveted 3-4 NT for a mere mid-rounder AND toss in foote just seems silly to me.

these guys have another trophy to win, as does my man hines.

All I can say is that I watched this scenario once before in my lifetime and the next 11 years sucked. As the dynasty of the 70s aged and they couldn't perform up to their standards the Steelers stuck with them too long and when they realized that their run of Super Bowls was over, it was too late and then came the 80s.

I know many fans say that they would endure 10 years of average to below average football for a Super Bowl, but, until you're watching bad football instead of high caliber, competitive football be careful what you ask for. I can't watch football if the Steelers suck and over the next couple years, I can see this deteriorating unless they begin to make some tough decisions right now. They may be a year too late already.

Pappy

calmkiller
04-21-2009, 11:09 PM
Case in point. The Patriots. They have 4 picks in the first 2 rounds this year. Yes 3 2nd rounders. Do you know what we could do with 3 2nd rounders this year? Do you know how they got those? They traded away players while they still had value. This is what they have been doing over the years. Hate them as much as we all do, they run a good ship over there. Plain and simple. I would be insanely happy with 3 2nd rounders this year. Thank about it.


Also Pap, only 51 contracts count against the cap until the final cuts so you can sign the lower round guys first but to get round 1-3 or so signed your going to have to do some moving because once those guys sign they will most likely bump up into the top 51 salaries on the team.

steeler_fan_in_t.o.
04-22-2009, 12:17 AM
You know when you use terms like "stop gap replacement"? When you aren't planning to contend for a SB title!

Are we tight against the cap? Sure, but there are many non-starters who can be moved out before him to make some room. I would start with the guy who so many of you think would replace him in Hoke. I like Hoke, but he is one year older, would also only play two downs, and is not as good as Big Snack. His cap relief would only be a fraction of that for Casey, but you only need so much. IIRC, both are only under contract through this year anyway.

Do not underestimate the impact of Hampton. He eats up a ton of space, blockers, and is a big reason why he gets off the field on third down - because he helps force third and longs.

And for those of you who would gladly take a fourth back in return, who do you like so much in the fourth? Sepulveda? Tony Hills? Ryan McBean? Sure we could find an Ike Taylor, but we might also draft Fred Gibson. I'm not willing to take that risk while giving away Hampton in a title defense year that I think would result in a large downgrade in our D.

frankthetank1
04-22-2009, 07:34 AM
they should trade hampton for parrish straight up. they are both worth the same value in draft picks so its a pretty fair trade.

Oviedo
04-22-2009, 08:01 AM
they should trade hampton for parrish straight up. they are both worth the same value in draft picks so its a pretty fair trade.

But it does not help you cap wise as much as just trading him for a draft pick. They need to shed salary.

RuthlessBurgher
04-22-2009, 09:42 AM
Okay, here we go, I need some help. The Steelers just released Gary Russell probably for two reasons, one to clear room to sign Batch to a vet minimum contract for a quarterback and, two, because, he was at a friend's house that was raided for marijuana. Forgetting the marijuana part lets move on to the salary/cap part.

To sign Batch we had to release Russell to free up slightly under a million dollars to sign him. The Steelers have 9 draft picks this year. How do they sign any of these guys without releasing some real money? Wouldn't trading aging veterans (as distasteful as it may be) be the way to free up cap space for rookies and younger players?

It's a by-product of how the Steelers run the team. When you draft and groom your own players and give them their one big payday, invariably, you will lose them at the end of their career. Unless, of course, they take very, very cap friendly deals like Bettis.

Hampton, Ward, Hoke, Smith, Kirschke, Kiesel are all about to get on with their life's work within the next 2-3 years. Why not deal them now while they may have value to another team looking for some veteran leadership and getting a draft pick or two?

We would all like to keep them all, but, it isn't feasible in today's NFL. The Steelers have real issues with capology coming soon. Maybe, they're just keeping the team together for one more run at a Super Bowl and then dismantle it except for a few.

I didn't like the Harrison contract when I saw and I'm liking it even less now as reality is setting in. He is taking up a big chunk of cap space.

Pappy

They have plenty of time between now and when we have to get down to the final 53 at the end of training camp. My guess is they will try to extend Starks to a long-term deal, which could be structured to decrease his cap hit in year one below what he would be making under the one-year franchise tag. They could also give Hines a reasonable extension for another 2-3 years that would be amenable to both the player and the team, allowing him to retire as a Steeler and decreasing his cap number this season, the last year of his previous contract. If they are able to accomplish those two moves, that should free up enough money to sign their draft class, and possibly extend somebody like Reed, Clark, or Kiesel as well. If they are able to sign Starks long-term, they could use the franchise tag on Miller next year (the amount for a TE this season was $4,462,000).

papillon
04-22-2009, 10:31 AM
Okay, here we go, I need some help. The Steelers just released Gary Russell probably for two reasons, one to clear room to sign Batch to a vet minimum contract for a quarterback and, two, because, he was at a friend's house that was raided for marijuana. Forgetting the marijuana part lets move on to the salary/cap part.

To sign Batch we had to release Russell to free up slightly under a million dollars to sign him. The Steelers have 9 draft picks this year. How do they sign any of these guys without releasing some real money? Wouldn't trading aging veterans (as distasteful as it may be) be the way to free up cap space for rookies and younger players?

It's a by-product of how the Steelers run the team. When you draft and groom your own players and give them their one big payday, invariably, you will lose them at the end of their career. Unless, of course, they take very, very cap friendly deals like Bettis.

Hampton, Ward, Hoke, Smith, Kirschke, Kiesel are all about to get on with their life's work within the next 2-3 years. Why not deal them now while they may have value to another team looking for some veteran leadership and getting a draft pick or two?

We would all like to keep them all, but, it isn't feasible in today's NFL. The Steelers have real issues with capology coming soon. Maybe, they're just keeping the team together for one more run at a Super Bowl and then dismantle it except for a few.

I didn't like the Harrison contract when I saw and I'm liking it even less now as reality is setting in. He is taking up a big chunk of cap space.

Pappy

They have plenty of time between now and when we have to get down to the final 53 at the end of training camp. My guess is they will try to extend Starks to a long-term deal, which could be structured to decrease his cap hit in year one below what he would be making under the one-year franchise tag. They could also give Hines a reasonable extension for another 2-3 years that would be amenable to both the player and the team, allowing him to retire as a Steeler and decreasing his cap number this season, the last year of his previous contract. If they are able to accomplish those two moves, that should free up enough money to sign their draft class, and possibly extend somebody like Reed, Clark, or Kiesel as well. If they are able to sign Starks long-term, they could use the franchise tag on Miller next year (the amount for a TE this season was $4,462,000).

Realistically, they really need to be thinking of the difficult decisions that need to be made.

What do they have to do to keep Woodley a Steeler?

Is there a place for Timmons with the Steelers? I like him a lot, because, of his quick twitch muscles, he's really a 43 OLB and probably an all-pro.

Heath Miller needs to remain a Steeler and it won't be cheap and Spaeth is not the answer.

The Max Starks situation is abominable and needs to be remedied.

Willie Parker may be a casualty.

The defensive linemen are aging and replenishing that unit in one draft isn't happening.

We're really down to one go to WR, an untested 2nd round selection and a HOFer who can still make some plays, but I suspect his days of big production are over.

Colbert will be earning his paycheck over the next few years or he may be looking for a new one.

Pappy

calmkiller
04-22-2009, 10:42 AM
Realistically, they really need to be thinking of the difficult decisions that need to be made.

What do they have to do to keep Woodley a Steeler?

Is there a place for Timmons with the Steelers? I like him a lot, because, of his quick twitch muscles, he's really a 43 OLB and probably an all-pro.

Heath Miller needs to remain a Steeler and it won't be cheap and Spaeth is not the answer.

The Max Starks situation is abominable and needs to be remedied.

Willie Parker may be a casualty.

The defensive linemen are aging and replenishing that unit in one draft isn't happening.

We're really down to one go to WR, an untested 2nd round selection and a HOFer who can still make some plays, but I suspect his days of big production are over.

Colbert will be earning his paycheck over the next few years or he may be looking for a new one.

Pappy

Woodley is a none issue. Even after his contract is up he cannot become a FA under the current CBA. He has another 4 years with the Steelers. No worries there.

Timmons is our ILB. He will be a starter this year and will get an extension in the future. No worries there either.

Hines I believe will take the 1 year contract that Bettis took.

Willie is gone.

Extend heath at all cost, you are absolutely correct on that account.

feltdizz
04-22-2009, 11:51 AM
Do fans know NT's are fat? Casey is not going anywhere IMO. No way... he still has gas in the tank and his primary job is getting double teamed and clogging the middle.

Why fix what isn't broken?

JUST-PLAIN-NASTY
04-22-2009, 01:23 PM
Just my thoughts...
I'm not trading Hampton or Foote.
You trade Hampton & Hoke goes down...Big trouble. Also the fact that who else is in the rotation behind Hoke. Trade Foote and we are extremely thin at ILB. I know we all went through this with Faneca and got burned with a 5th comp but I would rather the depth to make a run this year. The cap relief would be nice but if you pull the trigger in these trades and you get an injury in the wrong spot...It could be the difference between making the playoffs or going home. Don't under appreciate what impact Hampton/Hoke have on this run defense. Just my thoughts...

BURGH86STEEL
04-22-2009, 04:08 PM
Just my thoughts...
I'm not trading Hampton or Foote.
You trade Hampton & Hoke goes down...Big trouble. Also the fact that who else is in the rotation behind Hoke. Trade Foote and we are extremely thin at ILB. I know we all went through this with Faneca and got burned with a 5th comp but I would rather the depth to make a run this year. The cap relief would be nice but if you pull the trigger in these trades and you get an injury in the wrong spot...It could be the difference between making the playoffs or going home. Don't under appreciate what impact Hampton/Hoke have on this run defense. Just my thoughts...

I agree, why make positions of strength a weakness? Make no sense to me unless the deals are just to good to pass by.

papillon
04-22-2009, 09:52 PM
Just my thoughts...
I'm not trading Hampton or Foote.
You trade Hampton & Hoke goes down...Big trouble. Also the fact that who else is in the rotation behind Hoke. Trade Foote and we are extremely thin at ILB. I know we all went through this with Faneca and got burned with a 5th comp but I would rather the depth to make a run this year. The cap relief would be nice but if you pull the trigger in these trades and you get an injury in the wrong spot...It could be the difference between making the playoffs or going home. Don't under appreciate what impact Hampton/Hoke have on this run defense. Just my thoughts...

If you trade Hampton you obviously have to draft his replacement who also happens to be the backup if Hoke gets hurt. It's risky, but, the Steelers have to free up cap space. As far as Foote goes, at some point the Steelers have to see if Timmons can be ILB in the 34. If he can, then Foote is priced too high to be the backup, so trading him becomes a possibility and the Steelers have depth at LB from past drafts. They may not be sure if it can play at the NFL level, but they have it.

It's just the way the NFL works and the Steelers do business. I'd love them to keep this team together and make multiple runs at the SB. The reality is that it isn't happening. IMHO.

Pappy

JUST-PLAIN-NASTY
04-23-2009, 09:04 AM
Just my thoughts...
I'm not trading Hampton or Foote.
You trade Hampton & Hoke goes down...Big trouble. Also the fact that who else is in the rotation behind Hoke. Trade Foote and we are extremely thin at ILB. I know we all went through this with Faneca and got burned with a 5th comp but I would rather the depth to make a run this year. The cap relief would be nice but if you pull the trigger in these trades and you get an injury in the wrong spot...It could be the difference between making the playoffs or going home. Don't under appreciate what impact Hampton/Hoke have on this run defense. Just my thoughts...

If you trade Hampton you obviously have to draft his replacement who also happens to be the backup if Hoke gets hurt. It's risky, but, the Steelers have to free up cap space. As far as Foote goes, at some point the Steelers have to see if Timmons can be ILB in the 34. If he can, then Foote is priced too high to be the backup, so trading him becomes a possibility and the Steelers have depth at LB from past drafts. They may not be sure if it can play at the NFL level, but they have it.

It's just the way the NFL works and the Steelers do business. I'd love them to keep this team together and make multiple runs at the SB. The reality is that it isn't happening. IMHO.

Pappy

There not going to trade Hampton then go into the draft hoping to find a guy to back-up Hoke. Not happening. They will draft a DT this year...See if he could develop...And make a decision next year on Hampton based on that and Hampton's 2009 production. That would not be good business to trade Hampton and "hope" to hit in the draft. The rookie would see 40% of the defensive snaps if Hoke stays healthy. If Hoke gets injured...Big trouble. The Steelers know how to do business and they are not going to risk a season on personnell moves to save salary. Foote may be moved but that will depend on how confident the Steelers are in having Fox, Woods, & A Harrison as ILB back-ups. Trading Foote would put one of them as the primary back-up. They know Timmons could play ILB in the 3-4 from his performance this year. The fact of the matter is the Steelers have NO depth at ILB from past drafts as you stated. Humpal & Wallace are not around. If you read my post, it pertained to this year. Having Hampton & Foote here this year is necessary to make another run. I definately don't see Foote here after this year. He has alot of football left in him and could probably get a nice contract elsewhere. Hampton extending will depend on him and what the Steelers find in the draft. If they find a capable replacement for 2010 I don't expect the Steelers to give him a new contract. There will be alot of restructuring of existing contracts. Long term for Starks and Colon could help. There are some large back-up contracts that will be looked at. There are ways.

papillon
04-23-2009, 09:13 AM
[quote="JUST-PLAIN-NASTY":2ueq7qxd]Just my thoughts...
I'm not trading Hampton or Foote.
You trade Hampton & Hoke goes down...Big trouble. Also the fact that who else is in the rotation behind Hoke. Trade Foote and we are extremely thin at ILB. I know we all went through this with Faneca and got burned with a 5th comp but I would rather the depth to make a run this year. The cap relief would be nice but if you pull the trigger in these trades and you get an injury in the wrong spot...It could be the difference between making the playoffs or going home. Don't under appreciate what impact Hampton/Hoke have on this run defense. Just my thoughts...

If you trade Hampton you obviously have to draft his replacement who also happens to be the backup if Hoke gets hurt. It's risky, but, the Steelers have to free up cap space. As far as Foote goes, at some point the Steelers have to see if Timmons can be ILB in the 34. If he can, then Foote is priced too high to be the backup, so trading him becomes a possibility and the Steelers have depth at LB from past drafts. They may not be sure if it can play at the NFL level, but they have it.

It's just the way the NFL works and the Steelers do business. I'd love them to keep this team together and make multiple runs at the SB. The reality is that it isn't happening. IMHO.

Pappy

There not going to trade Hampton then go into the draft hoping to find a guy to back-up Hoke. Not happening. They will draft a DT this year...See if he could develop...And make a decision next year on Hampton based on that and Hampton's 2009 production. That would not be good business to trade Hampton and "hope" to hit in the draft. The rookie would see 40% of the defensive snaps if Hoke stays healthy. If Hoke gets injured...Big trouble. The Steelers know how to do business and they are not going to risk a season on personnell moves to save salary. Foote may be moved but that will depend on how confident the Steelers are in having Fox, Woods, & A Harrison as ILB back-ups. Trading Foote would put one of them as the primary back-up. They know Timmons could play ILB in the 3-4 from his performance this year. The fact of the matter is the Steelers have NO depth at ILB from past drafts as you stated. Humpal & Wallace are not around. If you read my post, it pertained to this year. Having Hampton & Foote here this year is necessary to make another run. I definately don't see Foote here after this year. He has alot of football left in him and could probably get a nice contract elsewhere. Hampton extending will depend on him and what the Steelers find in the draft. If they find a capable replacement for 2010 I don't expect the Steelers to give him a new contract. There will be alot of restructuring of existing contracts. Long term for Starks and Colon could help. There are some large back-up contracts that will be looked at. There are ways.[/quote:2ueq7qxd]

I just don't want to see the 80s again because we hold on to aging high-priced veterans. I absolutely hate years when the Steelers lose more than they win. I'm all for whatever is necessary to ensure that this doesn't happen; including restructuring, releasing or trading veterans who have served the Steelers well and may be handcuffing them from signing the next generation of younguns.

Pappy

JUST-PLAIN-NASTY
04-23-2009, 11:57 AM
[quote="JUST-PLAIN-NASTY":rt24x9sg]Just my thoughts...
I'm not trading Hampton or Foote.
You trade Hampton & Hoke goes down...Big trouble. Also the fact that who else is in the rotation behind Hoke. Trade Foote and we are extremely thin at ILB. I know we all went through this with Faneca and got burned with a 5th comp but I would rather the depth to make a run this year. The cap relief would be nice but if you pull the trigger in these trades and you get an injury in the wrong spot...It could be the difference between making the playoffs or going home. Don't under appreciate what impact Hampton/Hoke have on this run defense. Just my thoughts...

If you trade Hampton you obviously have to draft his replacement who also happens to be the backup if Hoke gets hurt. It's risky, but, the Steelers have to free up cap space. As far as Foote goes, at some point the Steelers have to see if Timmons can be ILB in the 34. If he can, then Foote is priced too high to be the backup, so trading him becomes a possibility and the Steelers have depth at LB from past drafts. They may not be sure if it can play at the NFL level, but they have it.

It's just the way the NFL works and the Steelers do business. I'd love them to keep this team together and make multiple runs at the SB. The reality is that it isn't happening. IMHO.

Pappy

There not going to trade Hampton then go into the draft hoping to find a guy to back-up Hoke. Not happening. They will draft a DT this year...See if he could develop...And make a decision next year on Hampton based on that and Hampton's 2009 production. That would not be good business to trade Hampton and "hope" to hit in the draft. The rookie would see 40% of the defensive snaps if Hoke stays healthy. If Hoke gets injured...Big trouble. The Steelers know how to do business and they are not going to risk a season on personnell moves to save salary. Foote may be moved but that will depend on how confident the Steelers are in having Fox, Woods, & A Harrison as ILB back-ups. Trading Foote would put one of them as the primary back-up. They know Timmons could play ILB in the 3-4 from his performance this year. The fact of the matter is the Steelers have NO depth at ILB from past drafts as you stated. Humpal & Wallace are not around. If you read my post, it pertained to this year. Having Hampton & Foote here this year is necessary to make another run. I definately don't see Foote here after this year. He has alot of football left in him and could probably get a nice contract elsewhere. Hampton extending will depend on him and what the Steelers find in the draft. If they find a capable replacement for 2010 I don't expect the Steelers to give him a new contract. There will be alot of restructuring of existing contracts. Long term for Starks and Colon could help. There are some large back-up contracts that will be looked at. There are ways.

I just don't want to see the 80s again because we hold on to aging high-priced veterans. I absolutely hate years when the Steelers lose more than they win. I'm all for whatever is necessary to ensure that this doesn't happen; including restructuring, releasing or trading veterans who have served the Steelers well and may be handcuffing them from signing the next generation of younguns.

Pappy[/quote:rt24x9sg]
I agree with you Pap. I didn't like signing Kirschke to his last deal. I guess our options were limited but I would have liked to see a young DE signed in FA to start to build again. Not a "break the bank" FA but a young guy coming off his rookie contract. The McBean & Harris picks should have been guys ready for the mix. I think this team should move on after this season without Hampton & Keisel. To me, Keisel never lived up to his contract and is on the wrong side of 30. Hampton has been solid but this year I noticed he was taking plays off. This may be his weight or age but when it starts at this point in a career it keeps coming on. Smith has been the model of production on the DL and hasn't shown any signs of decline. We could move on after 2009 with Smith grooming a young player in the rotation. What I would really like to see is Gilbert & Hill added to the mix. Gilbert I see as Keisel's replacement in 2010 and would be in the rotation early. Hill could learn behind Hampton & Hoke. If he needs another year after this year they could retain Hoke. We have a little time for a LDE so we could mabe take a gamble on a small school lesser know kid to develop. I like Pedescleaux to learn behind Smith. He might be a PS player this year but he has the build and athleticism to devlop. Another guy I like in the later rounds is Martin Vaughn. A transfer from Michigan State to Western Ontario. Big, strong, & athletic DT. If they miss on Hill, perhaps they could grab Vaughn later. The Steelers need to come out of this draft with 2 DL prospects. Let's hope they don't miss because they are in tight spot on the DL.

papillon
04-23-2009, 01:18 PM
I agree with you Pap. I didn't like signing Kirschke to his last deal. I guess our options were limited but I would have liked to see a young DE signed in FA to start to build again. Not a "break the bank" FA but a young guy coming off his rookie contract. The McBean & Harris picks should have been guys ready for the mix. I think this team should move on after this season without Hampton & Keisel. To me, Keisel never lived up to his contract and is on the wrong side of 30. Hampton has been solid but this year I noticed he was taking plays off. This may be his weight or age but when it starts at this point in a career it keeps coming on. Smith has been the model of production on the DL and hasn't shown any signs of decline. We could move on after 2009 with Smith grooming a young player in the rotation. What I would really like to see is Gilbert & Hill added to the mix. Gilbert I see as Keisel's replacement in 2010 and would be in the rotation early. Hill could learn behind Hampton & Hoke. If he needs another year after this year they could retain Hoke. We have a little time for a LDE so we could mabe take a gamble on a small school lesser know kid to develop. I like Pedescleaux to learn behind Smith. He might be a PS player this year but he has the build and athleticism to devlop. Another guy I like in the later rounds is Martin Vaughn. A transfer from Michigan State to Western Ontario. Big, strong, & athletic DT. If they miss on Hill, perhaps they could grab Vaughn later. The Steelers need to come out of this draft with 2 DL prospects. Let's hope they don't miss because they are in tight spot on the DL.



That would be nice if all that works out and the Steelers win back-to-back. Winning back-to-back these days is much more difficult than in the 70s. If the Steelers hold all this salary this year w/o any restructuring, releasing or trading and don't win the Super Bowl they will be in a bad way in 2010.

I'm curious JPN:

What should the Steelers do with Ward?
If they extend Ward, should they try and extend Hampton for 2-3 more?
What's your take on Foote? Kiesel? Townsend?
What about Parker? His cap hit is something like 4.6 million this year?

Pappy

JUST-PLAIN-NASTY
04-23-2009, 02:50 PM
I agree with you Pap. I didn't like signing Kirschke to his last deal. I guess our options were limited but I would have liked to see a young DE signed in FA to start to build again. Not a "break the bank" FA but a young guy coming off his rookie contract. The McBean & Harris picks should have been guys ready for the mix. I think this team should move on after this season without Hampton & Keisel. To me, Keisel never lived up to his contract and is on the wrong side of 30. Hampton has been solid but this year I noticed he was taking plays off. This may be his weight or age but when it starts at this point in a career it keeps coming on. Smith has been the model of production on the DL and hasn't shown any signs of decline. We could move on after 2009 with Smith grooming a young player in the rotation. What I would really like to see is Gilbert & Hill added to the mix. Gilbert I see as Keisel's replacement in 2010 and would be in the rotation early. Hill could learn behind Hampton & Hoke. If he needs another year after this year they could retain Hoke. We have a little time for a LDE so we could mabe take a gamble on a small school lesser know kid to develop. I like Pedescleaux to learn behind Smith. He might be a PS player this year but he has the build and athleticism to devlop. Another guy I like in the later rounds is Martin Vaughn. A transfer from Michigan State to Western Ontario. Big, strong, & athletic DT. If they miss on Hill, perhaps they could grab Vaughn later. The Steelers need to come out of this draft with 2 DL prospects. Let's hope they don't miss because they are in tight spot on the DL.



That would be nice if all that works out and the Steelers win back-to-back. Winning back-to-back these days is much more difficult than in the 70s. If the Steelers hold all this salary this year w/o any restructuring, releasing or trading and don't win the Super Bowl they will be in a bad way in 2010.

I'm curious JPN:

What should the Steelers do with Ward?
If they extend Ward, should they try and extend Hampton for 2-3 more?
What's your take on Foote? Kiesel? Townsend?
What about Parker? His cap hit is something like 4.6 million this year?

Pappy

If I'm not mistaken, Foote & Hampton will both be FA after the 2009 season so those numbers will be off the books...clear. Trade them and we absorb some this year. To me there is more reward keeping them both here this year and let them walk next year (If you find Hampton's replacement.) The Steelers have the luxury of having 2 starting NTs & 3 starting ILBs. I can't really stress what that depth does to a defense on gameday. We should have the same in place before we consider trading. If it happens where the Steelers luck out and find a draft choice who could fill those spots coming out of preseason...I would have no problem trading at that point. One important point not being made is neither Foote or Hampton are causing distractions about not having a new contract in place. Right now, the situation favors the Steelers as a team and also favors the players who are looking for a new contract. Kinda makes it a non issue...For now.

As to the other points.

From what I heard Ward say and hearing his comment about Bettis, I think Ward retires a Steeler. I don't know if he has been approached yet or if the Steelers will wait until next year but I feel relieved that the Ward contract won't be an issue. I'm sure the Steelers would like to try to retructure and extend his contract to get the cap number down. If not, It more likely will come down to Ward playing this last year out and returning to the Steelers on a new contract for a 1-2 year deal with the same discount Bettis played for. Ward made reference to that.

Hampton will have to earn a new contract. He was solid last year but I did see him taking plays off. We all remember plays where he completely blew the OL up and drove him into the backfield. I also remember plays where he was handled 1 on 1. This is what one of my coaches called "Searching for gears." You are playing in spurts. When you find a gear you go...Otherwise you stay on idle. Most of the time it's just a guy who needs to come out and get a breather. Later in a players career, you can see them doing this throughout the game. It may be conditioning, being over weight, but more likely just getting worn down. When you are a 3-4 NT in this league...The "worn down" part comes without warning. I'm sure the steelers will be watching.

I would love to have Foote stay but he has alot of football left in him and could get a nice paycheck elsewhere. If Farrior wasn't signed long term, I would say extend him. Unless Farrior gets injured or tells the organization he is done after this year...I think you have to let Foote walk. That being said, the Steelers will need to look for some ILB depth soon. One in this years draft would not surprise me.

In my opinion Keisel never played up to his contract and most likely won't be offered a new contract unless he has an incredible year. If the Steelers hit in the draft on a DE, he won't be back. He has been serviceable but unless he wants to take a paycut...He won't be a Steeler after 2009.

Townsend has been a contributor to this team for a long time. He still has value because of his experience and instincts but his contract will have to reflect his decreased playing time. I could see the Steelers offering him a contract to stay around but at #4 money. I hope he retires a Steeler.

Parker is still the starting RB for this team. No one has challenged his spot. Mendenhall's injury set that back but he will have the opportunity again. Mendenhall can take the torch from Parker on his production. The door is being held open for him right now. But Parker is playing his contract year so the Steelers will benefit from this battle. I would like for Parker to stay. However, if Mendenhall lives up to the hype, I see it hard for that to happen. If Parker stays healthy all year, he will still have one big contract left in him. It won't be with the Steelers. So at that point, the rest is up to him.

papillon
04-23-2009, 04:34 PM
JPN,

Okay, so it may be manageable for this year and next. So, now, lets get focused on bringing home number 7. There are still going to be some issues with players who prove themselves in the upcoming year as very good football players. But, I guess the Steelers have to wait and see who performs and who doesn't and go from there.

I'd still try and work a trade and get some value from either Hampton or Foote before they just walk away.

Pappy

JUST-PLAIN-NASTY
04-23-2009, 04:48 PM
JPN,

Okay, so it may be manageable for this year and next. So, now, lets get focused on bringing home number 7. There are still going to be some issues with players who prove themselves in the upcoming year as very good football players. But, I guess the Steelers have to wait and see who performs and who doesn't and go from there.

I'd still try and work a trade and get some value from either Hampton or Foote before they just walk away.

Pappy
If I had to choose Pap...I would say Foote. There is enough flexibilty in the LB core to move players in an emergency. I would keep Hampton here.

Slapstick
04-23-2009, 06:13 PM
You get value from the players by allowing them to play for you for another year...