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Oviedo
04-21-2009, 09:29 AM
Just intuition but you just get a sense or suspicion that the Steelers:

1. Won't draft OL at 1.32 as everyone wants or expects them to do
2. May seriously look at WR at 1.32, i.e. Hakeem Nicks, because HInes may have let it be knbown he wants one more ride before he retires and a WR could very easily be the "Best Player Available" at 1.32.

And the one that wouldn't surprise me:

3. With the 32nd pick the Pittsburgh Steelers select Ron Brace, Defensive Tackle from Boston College.

Rationale for #3 is that Casey Hampton is in his last year at best and is currently carrying a significant cap number for a 2 down player. If you listened to or read the transcript from the pre draft conference with Tomlin and Colbert the lack of a CBA is preventing the team from doing the standard renegotiation of contracts to clear cap space. That means someone is going to have to be cut. My guess is it is Hampton.

SteelCzar76
04-21-2009, 09:44 AM
Just intuition but you just get a sense or suspicion that the Steelers:

1. Won't draft OL at 1.32 as everyone wants or expects them to do
2. May seriously look at WR at 1.32, i.e. Hakeem Nicks, because HInes may have let it be knbown he wants one more ride before he retires and a WR could very easily be the "Best Player Available" at 1.32.

And the one that wouldn't surprise me:

3. With the 32nd pick the Pittsburgh Steelers select Ron Brace, Defensive Tackle from Boston College.

Rationale for #3 is that Casey Hampton is in his last year at best and is currently carrying a significant cap number for a 2 down player. If you listened to or read the transcript from the pre draft conference with Tomlin and Colbert the lack of a CBA is preventing the team from doing the standard renegotiation of contracts to clear cap space. That means someone is going to have to be cut. My guess is it is Hampton.


Good call O,...it appears that we think a great deal alike. Though as i mentioned in another thread i feel as though if it's not the big play WR (Harvin IMO) it will be Fili. Not that i couldn't see them going in Brace's direction though. (Perhaps even as i mentioned before,..in the 2nd round ?)

Casey could very well be the odd man out,..but i think they'd allow Keisel and or Dshea to walk first,...and there is a chance (IMO) no matter how slim,... that if we do repeat,..Hines just may decide to retire as to avoid resigning even being an issue ?

I mean really,...what more would he (Hines) have to prove ? He's a future Hall of Famer, he'd have three Superbowl rings, and a superbowl MVP with the same team that drafted him. As well as along with owning team's receiving records,..he'd go down as one of the great's for one of the best if not the best Franchises in all of sports,.. let alone football.

steelz09
04-21-2009, 09:51 AM
Just intuition but you just get a sense or suspicion that the Steelers:

1. Won't draft OL at 1.32 as everyone wants or expects them to do
2. May seriously look at WR at 1.32, i.e. Hakeem Nicks, because HInes may have let it be knbown he wants one more ride before he retires and a WR could very easily be the "Best Player Available" at 1.32.

And the one that wouldn't surprise me:

3. With the 32nd pick the Pittsburgh Steelers select Ron Brace, Defensive Tackle from Boston College.

Rationale for #3 is that Casey Hampton is in his last year at best and is currently carrying a significant cap number for a 2 down player. If you listened to or read the transcript from the pre draft conference with Tomlin and Colbert the lack of a CBA is preventing the team from doing the standard renegotiation of contracts to clear cap space. That means someone is going to have to be cut. My guess is it is Hampton.

It really wouldn't suprise me. I'd really like o-line in the first and then possible trade up into the second to draft Fili, Brace, Gilbert ... We have serious depth issues both on the o-line and the d-line. o-line is just slim on talen. d-line has talent but all are either approaching the end of their career or are up on contracts. I want me some big uglies in the draft :)

Slapstick
04-21-2009, 09:52 AM
The more I think about it, the more I think that the Steelers will go OL in the first...

But, only if William Beatty is still there...

Given that the top two OTs are in a contract year and the only other OT prospects on the team are Essex (backup), Hills (unknown quantity) and Capizzi (so far, only a practice squad player), Beatty wouldn't be a bad pick at all...

Every thing I've read about the guy says the same thing: unbelievable work ethic and quick feet...the Steelers would have the luxury of letting him learn for a year and beef up even more...furthermore, he really stood out in the few UConn games I was able to watch last year...

LT is a premium position...the Steelers have the luxury of allowing this premium LT to develop...

calmkiller
04-21-2009, 10:07 AM
I am going to try and touch on everything said here so far. First thing Slapstick, William Beatty is not our type of player. He is a finesse Tackle, not a road grater. I think we really try to sign Max to a long term deal after the draft, and they will watch Tony Hills. He could be the replacement for Colon. Remember they draft for two years not one so last year was a redshirt year for everyone.

Oviedo, the more I think about it the more I have no Idea which way the Steelers will go. I was/am Hoping that we can get Mack in the first but I don't really see that happening now. Our needs for this year are currently OL, DL, CB, WR in that order. But considering they look two years in advance when drafting we have to take into consideration who we lose after this season. OL is still a huge need, DL equally as big. WR moves up in my book because Hines might be done. CB still a need. Safety Possibly we have Mundy on the team but we don't know if he can produce. TE if we lose Heath we are looking at Spaeth starting and McHugh as the backup. So a TE wouldn't be a shock at this point either.

The main concern here is we still the OL and DL issues two years from now that we have this year. They just keep pushing it into the next season by tagging Max. Which could again be an option next year. So WR moved up in my book ahead of Corner. Which I believe we can get a corner in the later rounds. ALA Gay in the 5th. A possible TE in the later rounds but I still hope we take OL in the first, but a WR would not surprise me. I would be happy with any of the OL, DL, or WR.

SteelCzar76
04-21-2009, 10:11 AM
The more I think about it, the more I think that the Steelers will go OL in the first...

But, only if William Beatty is still there...

Given that the top two OTs are in a contract year and the only other OT prospects on the team are Essex (backup), Hills (unknown quantity) and Capizzi (so far, only a practice squad player), Beatty wouldn't be a bad pick at all...

Every thing I've read about the guy says the same thing: unbelievable work ethic and quick feet...the Steelers would have the luxury of letting him learn for a year and beef up even more...furthermore, he really stood out in the few UConn games I was able to watch last year...

LT is a premium position...the Steelers have the luxury of allowing this premium LT to develop...


I don't know,..sure many of the Steeler fanbase feel as though the O-line is in "dire straits",...but whose to say that the Colbert/Tomlin and Company really feel this way ?

You have to keep in mind that they just won a World title with a line that featured not single player that was drafted in the 1st round. Yes they (O-line) were streaky and very inconsistent at times,..but,...so is Ben as Quarterback and they're not panicking and thinking that they desperately need to draft his replacement. (I'm just sayin)

If it's just a matter of depth in the trenches,....how can that not be addressed later in the Draft especially in light of the fact that none of the starters outside of Starks was even anywhere near being considered a "stud" or early first day pick coming out of College ?

Oviedo
04-21-2009, 10:16 AM
I am going to try and touch on everything said here so far. First thing Slapstick, William Beatty is not our type of player. He is a finesse Tackle, not a road grater. I think we really try to sign Max to a long term deal after the draft, and they will watch Tony Hills. He could be the replacement for Colon. Remember they draft for two years not one so last year was a redshirt year for everyone.

Oviedo, the more I think about it the more I have no Idea which way the Steelers will go. I was/am Hoping that we can get Mack in the first but I don't really see that happening now. Our needs for this year are currently OL, DL, CB, WR in that order. But considering they look two years in advance when drafting we have to take into consideration who we lose after this season. OL is still a huge need, DL equally as big. WR moves up in my book because Hines might be done. CB still a need. Safety Possibly we have Mundy on the team but we don't know if he can produce. TE if we lose Heath we are looking at Spaeth starting and McHugh as the backup. So a TE wouldn't be a shock at this point either.

The main concern here is we still the OL and DL issues two years from now that we have this year. They just keep pushing it into the next season by tagging Max. Which could again be an option next year. So WR moved up in my book ahead of Corner. Which I believe we can get a corner in the later rounds. ALA Gay in the 5th. A possible TE in the later rounds but I still hope we take OL in the first, but a WR would not surprise me. I would be happy with any of the OL, DL, or WR.

Interesting that you mention TE because I could see them going for one much earlier than many expect. Both Heath AND Spaeth are off contract after 2009. There is very little depth there in case of injury and TEs are key to how they run the offense.

I think they make every effort to resign Heath but Spaeth may not be resigned so getting someone into the system this year is very important because they may not be able to resign Heath. If Pettigrew fell to 1.32 I could se them grabbing him because he is a great receiver and blocker.

RuthlessBurgher
04-21-2009, 10:17 AM
I don't like Nicks. His sudden weight gain is reminiscent of Robert Meachem a couple of years ago (and he has only been able to catch 12 balls in 2 seasons for an offense where the QB was threatening Dan Marino's passing records this season).

MaxAMillion
04-21-2009, 10:21 AM
The problem is too many fans think that using a first round pick on a OC/OG is the only way to help the OL. Most teams in the league pass on drafting Guards and Centers in round one because there is not a lot of value there. Teams can find Guards and Centers in the middle rounds. I have no problem seeing the Steelers wait and draft Lang or Cadogan in rounds 2 or 3. I think either of those guys can be effective at Guard or RT.

I still believe the Steelers will take a corner or WR in round 1 and I have no problem with that.

calmkiller
04-21-2009, 10:24 AM
I am going to try and touch on everything said here so far. First thing Slapstick, William Beatty is not our type of player. He is a finesse Tackle, not a road grater. I think we really try to sign Max to a long term deal after the draft, and they will watch Tony Hills. He could be the replacement for Colon. Remember they draft for two years not one so last year was a redshirt year for everyone.

Oviedo, the more I think about it the more I have no Idea which way the Steelers will go. I was/am Hoping that we can get Mack in the first but I don't really see that happening now. Our needs for this year are currently OL, DL, CB, WR in that order. But considering they look two years in advance when drafting we have to take into consideration who we lose after this season. OL is still a huge need, DL equally as big. WR moves up in my book because Hines might be done. CB still a need. Safety Possibly we have Mundy on the team but we don't know if he can produce. TE if we lose Heath we are looking at Spaeth starting and McHugh as the backup. So a TE wouldn't be a shock at this point either.

The main concern here is we still the OL and DL issues two years from now that we have this year. They just keep pushing it into the next season by tagging Max. Which could again be an option next year. So WR moved up in my book ahead of Corner. Which I believe we can get a corner in the later rounds. ALA Gay in the 5th. A possible TE in the later rounds but I still hope we take OL in the first, but a WR would not surprise me. I would be happy with any of the OL, DL, or WR.

Interesting that you mention TE because I could see them going for one much earlier than many expect. Both Heath AND Spaeth are off contract after 2009. There is very little depth there in case of injury and TEs are key to how they run the offense.

I think they make every effort to resign Heath but Spaeth may not be resigned so getting someone into the system this year is very important because they may not be able to resign Heath. If Pettigrew fell to 1.32 I could se them grabbing him because he is a great receiver and blocker.

Doesn't Speath fall under the RFA rule because of the CBA? He has to be in the league 6 seasons before he can be an URFA I believe. So he will only be a RFA once his current contract is up. They will tendor him and he will remain on the team.

Oviedo
04-21-2009, 10:29 AM
I am going to try and touch on everything said here so far. First thing Slapstick, William Beatty is not our type of player. He is a finesse Tackle, not a road grater. I think we really try to sign Max to a long term deal after the draft, and they will watch Tony Hills. He could be the replacement for Colon. Remember they draft for two years not one so last year was a redshirt year for everyone.

Oviedo, the more I think about it the more I have no Idea which way the Steelers will go. I was/am Hoping that we can get Mack in the first but I don't really see that happening now. Our needs for this year are currently OL, DL, CB, WR in that order. But considering they look two years in advance when drafting we have to take into consideration who we lose after this season. OL is still a huge need, DL equally as big. WR moves up in my book because Hines might be done. CB still a need. Safety Possibly we have Mundy on the team but we don't know if he can produce. TE if we lose Heath we are looking at Spaeth starting and McHugh as the backup. So a TE wouldn't be a shock at this point either.

The main concern here is we still the OL and DL issues two years from now that we have this year. They just keep pushing it into the next season by tagging Max. Which could again be an option next year. So WR moved up in my book ahead of Corner. Which I believe we can get a corner in the later rounds. ALA Gay in the 5th. A possible TE in the later rounds but I still hope we take OL in the first, but a WR would not surprise me. I would be happy with any of the OL, DL, or WR.

Interesting that you mention TE because I could see them going for one much earlier than many expect. Both Heath AND Spaeth are off contract after 2009. There is very little depth there in case of injury and TEs are key to how they run the offense.

I think they make every effort to resign Heath but Spaeth may not be resigned so getting someone into the system this year is very important because they may not be able to resign Heath. If Pettigrew fell to 1.32 I could se them grabbing him because he is a great receiver and blocker.

Doesn't Speath fall under the RFA rule because of the CBA? He has to be in the league 6 seasons before he can be an URFA I believe. So he will only be a RFA once his current contract is up. They will tendor him and he will remain on the team.

You are correct but I'm not sure of all nuances to that. Howver if Pettigrew was there at 1.32 he would clearly be the BPA. The guy is a devastating blocker but not really an urgent need I guess. I'm a big Spaeth fan and don't think he gets credit he is due but Pettigrew would be a Heath-clone. Not sure how any team could cover both of them.

papillon
04-21-2009, 10:33 AM
Isn't Ward's cap hit this coming year very high? He's in the last year of a contract that was probably back loaded to ease the cap hit when he signed it. Shouldn't the Steelers be looking at this contract?

I'd hate it, but, it may be a necessity.

Pappy

Oviedo
04-21-2009, 10:42 AM
Isn't Ward's cap hit this coming year very high? He's in the last year of a contract that was probably back loaded to ease the cap hit when he signed it. Shouldn't the Steelers be looking at this contract?

I'd hate it, but, it may be a necessity.

Pappy

They will not cut Hines under any circumstances and the lack of a CBA essentially makes it impossible to renegotiate into the outyears. He will get full contract value this season.

papillon
04-21-2009, 10:44 AM
Isn't Ward's cap hit this coming year very high? He's in the last year of a contract that was probably back loaded to ease the cap hit when he signed it. Shouldn't the Steelers be looking at this contract?

I'd hate it, but, it may be a necessity.

Pappy

They will not cut Hines under any circumstances and the lack of a CBA essentially makes it impossible to renegotiate into the outyears. He will get full contract value this season.

Lucky him, I believe it's a big number this year.

Pappy

calmkiller
04-21-2009, 10:49 AM
The deal is worth $25.83 million and includes bonuses of $10 million. So this is the last year of that contract. The prorated bonus would be 2.5 million this year I think? plus his base salary. I am trying to find the numbers but haven't yet.

phillyesq
04-21-2009, 10:52 AM
More and more, I think that there is a very good chance that Eric Wood will be the pick. He seems like a Steelers type pick -- tough and versatile. Stapelton seemed to wear down last year after just half a season. His eventual future might be at center, or he may be best served as a backup to the interior line spots. Wood could likely start at RG before the end of the season, and he could be the center of the future. Same applies to Mack, but for some reason, I have a feeling that Wood would be the pick.

As long as the Steelers first round pick has "lineman" in his title, I'll be pleased, whether offensive or defensive. I'd be ok with a corner, but not thrilled. I would really hate a WR. The WR group doesn't really impress me this year -- there seem to be a lot of boom or bust guys, and with WRs, they often turn bust. I would rather see a mid-round WR with some return ability.

stlrz d
04-21-2009, 11:20 AM
There's no way they take Harvin to be eventual successor to a guy like Ward.

Oviedo
04-21-2009, 11:26 AM
There's no way they take Harvin to be eventual successor to a guy like Ward.

Harvin doesn't have the physical or mental make up to replace Hines. Hines has a warrior mentality. If he wasn't a successful NFL player I bet he could have been a very successful officer in the Army leading soldiers. You get no indication that Harvin has any of that.

aggiebones
04-21-2009, 11:31 AM
Can they cut and resign a guy?
Someone like Hines, they could agree to a contract, cut and resign him. Or would that be to shady to get by with the league office.
Ward and Hampton would accept being released and resigned to a new contract without looking elsewhere. Pittsburgh is their team and they both had big parts in winning Super Bowls. They would prefer to stay with us and be the type of guys we bring out at half time of future Super Bowls.

stlrz d
04-21-2009, 11:35 AM
There's no way they take Harvin to be eventual successor to a guy like Ward.

Harvin doesn't have the physical or mental make up to replace Hines. Hines has a warrior mentality. If he wasn't a successful NFL player I bet he could have been a very successful officer in the Army leading soldiers. You get no indication that Harvin has any of that.

+1

RuthlessBurgher
04-21-2009, 01:11 PM
As long as the Steelers first round pick has "lineman" in his title, I'll be pleased, whether offensive or defensive. I'd be ok with a corner, but not thrilled. I would really hate a WR. The WR group doesn't really impress me this year -- there seem to be a lot of boom or bust guys, and with WRs, they often turn bust. I would rather see a mid-round WR with some return ability.

:Agree That about sums it up for me.

Snatch98
04-21-2009, 02:18 PM
I agree. However I'd rather have Robiskie over Nicks especially when you consider where either will be playing and that's inside. Robiskie is a student of the game and the more complete receiver. In my opinion he's a perfect fit in our system if we do decide to go WR that early. I was also given the impression smoke screen or not there is a very real possibility we trade up or trade down rather than staying at 32 so who knows.

pfelix73
04-21-2009, 03:01 PM
"Our needs for this year are currently OL, DL, CB, WR in that order"

I disagree.

Our needs are DL, CB, then maybe a toss up between OL and WR.

Our OL is set for 2009. Starks can always be re tagged again next year and as someone else said, Hills could be the replacement for Colon... OR Essex.

The more I think about it- It's going to be Gilbert or Moala (sp?) at 32.

I've agreed all along with O regarding Brace at 32 for the same reasons as he mentioned... We'll see come Saturday...... the speculating is about over with......

Oracle
04-21-2009, 03:34 PM
a lot of people are using the word 'need' lately and i think it's important to clarify...

when you have 2 super bowl MVP WR's, and a 2nd round draft pick WR entering his 2nd year, you don't 'need' a WR... you 'want' one for depth/development.

when you have 2 pro-bowl DL and a solid 3 yr starter, you don't 'need' a DL... you 'want' one for depth/development.

when you just lost your #2 CB and have an unproven 5th round pick and 2 very old veterans as the only depth, you 'need' a CB.

when your OL has no pro-bowlers, and no reasonable chance of anyone on your current roster or depth chart becoming a pro-bowler, and cannot punch in a 2-yard goal line run (time after time after time) or sustain drives to close out games when you have the lead in the fourth quarter, and give up a near league leading number of stacks on your 2-time Super Bowl winning franchise QB... you 'need' serious serious serious OL help.

we won the super bowl last year 'despite' our OL not 'because' of them. ben cannot sustain this type of abuse for many more years. if gets hurt next year, it won't matter how many WR or DL or CB we have, we won't go far in the playoffs. if we cannot consistently open holes for our running backs, it won't matter how much depth we have behind veterans whose contracts are expiring, it will be open season on big ben and our offense will be greatly hindered.

we 'need' OL and i don't mean depth. we need highly talented OL prospects who are able to knock opposing pro-bowl DL on their asses. we need OL who can pull and track down opposing pro-bowl LB on the second level. we need OL who can lock onto opposing pro-bowl pass rushers and give our QB 4-5 seconds (cuz heaven knows ben's not getting rid of the ball in 3). we need OL who don't get confused by overload blitzes, or whiff at air on basic stunts, or watch DE fly by with nothing more than a passing push. we need OL like: mack, wood, unger, robinson, beatty, britton. not that they are guaranteed, but their bust potential is very low. drafting late round OL prospects and 'hoping' they somehow become starter material has come back to bite us in the ass, and it stops this year. OL early in 2009.

RuthlessBurgher
04-21-2009, 04:01 PM
"Our needs for this year are currently OL, DL, CB, WR in that order"

I disagree.

Our needs are DL, CB, then maybe a toss up between OL and WR.

Our OL is set for 2009. Starks can always be re tagged again next year and as someone else said, Hills could be the replacement for Colon... OR Essex.

The more I think about it- It's going to be Gilbert or Moala (sp?) at 32.

I've agreed all along with O regarding Brace at 32 for the same reasons as he mentioned... We'll see come Saturday...... the speculating is about over with......

The o-line is set for 2009, you say? Well, using that logic, isn't the d-line, CB, and WR corps set for 2009 as well?

Even if you take a d-lineman in round 1, Smith, Hampton, and Keisel will be your '09 starters. Even if you take a CB in round 1, your starters will be Taylor and Gay with Townsend at nickel. Even if you take a WR in round 1, your starters will be Ward and Holmes with Sweed as your 3rd WR.

We aren't drafting immediate starters...we are drafting for the future (but if you wanted a starter right off the bat, your best bet would be an interior lineman who could compete with Stapleton for the starting RG spot). Since both of your starting tackles and your starting center have contracts that expire after this season, the o-line is a big time need for the future.

Do you realize, when you suggest tagging Starks again next off-season, that it requires a 20% raise, giving him $10,141,200 for next season. :shock:

steelz09
04-21-2009, 04:04 PM
"Our needs for this year are currently OL, DL, CB, WR in that order"

I disagree.

Our needs are DL, CB, then maybe a toss up between OL and WR.

Our OL is set for 2009. Starks can always be re tagged again next year and as someone else said, Hills could be the replacement for Colon... OR Essex.

The more I think about it- It's going to be Gilbert or Moala (sp?) at 32.

I've agreed all along with O regarding Brace at 32 for the same reasons as he mentioned... We'll see come Saturday...... the speculating is about over with......

I don't understand this...think BEYOND this coming year

1) Our o-line may be "set" but it's far from good. We are lacking talent on o-line and it shows. We have zero quality depth pushing for a starting position except for maybe Hills

2) The team obviously feels Kemo is a decent player because they resigned him so he's here to say

3) Our two STARTING tackles are UFA's next year. I have ZERO confidence that the FO will be able to extend Starks to a long-term deal. They will possibly resign Colon as a "cheaper" RT next year but I'm not counting on that either especially since these guys will be on the open market and teams will overpay (BUT it won't be the Steelers). So, next year, BOTH of our starting tackles may be GONE. What's the Steelers backup plans if thats happen? Hills is the only guy we got that seems to have potential.

4) Our starting C will be a UFA next year. He gave up the most sacks of any center last year. Our starting RG (as of now) is Stapleon. Who is our backup center? Who is our future starting center?

I see MAJOR problems with the o-line particularly AFTER next year. Hell, 3 OUT OF OUR 5 STARTERS may be gone after next year. Big Ben is getting in his prime, its time to get the guy some quality o-line.

calmkiller
04-21-2009, 04:16 PM
"Our needs for this year are currently OL, DL, CB, WR in that order"

I disagree.

Our needs are DL, CB, then maybe a toss up between OL and WR.

Our OL is set for 2009. Starks can always be re tagged again next year and as someone else said, Hills could be the replacement for Colon... OR Essex.

The more I think about it- It's going to be Gilbert or Moala (sp?) at 32.

I've agreed all along with O regarding Brace at 32 for the same reasons as he mentioned... We'll see come Saturday...... the speculating is about over with......


So you think that we Need to draft Defensive players to improve on the #1 rated Defense when our OL gave up 46 sacks last year and struggled to block for a RB? You Think we need DL even though our DL's age we lead the league in all categories but 1? sorry we got second in that one. You want us to spend a first round pick on a CB in a very deep draft for Corners? We got Gay in the 5th. I see us drafting one late again. Its not a starter need its a depth need.

Colbert himself said we need to hit on starters in the first 3 rounds back-ups in rounds 4-5 and PS players in 6-7. So to me that means OL-DL 1-3. CB in round 4-5.

Also read Oracles post. He hit it perfectly.

RuthlessBurgher
04-21-2009, 04:25 PM
"Our needs for this year are currently OL, DL, CB, WR in that order"

I disagree.

Our needs are DL, CB, then maybe a toss up between OL and WR.

Our OL is set for 2009. Starks can always be re tagged again next year and as someone else said, Hills could be the replacement for Colon... OR Essex.

The more I think about it- It's going to be Gilbert or Moala (sp?) at 32.

I've agreed all along with O regarding Brace at 32 for the same reasons as he mentioned... We'll see come Saturday...... the speculating is about over with......

I don't understand this...think BEYOND this coming year

1) Our o-line may be "set" but it's far from good. We are lacking talent on o-line and it shows. We have zero quality depth pushing for a starting position except for maybe Hills

2) The team obviously feels Kemo is a decent player because they resigned him so he's here to say

3) Our two STARTING tackles are UFA's next year. I have ZERO confidence that the FO will be able to extend Starks to a long-term deal. They will possibly resign Colon as a "cheaper" RT next year but I'm not counting on that either especially since these guys will be on the open market and teams will overpay (BUT it won't be the Steelers). So, next year, BOTH of our starting tackles may be GONE. What's the Steelers backup plans if thats happen? Hills is the only guy we got that seems to have potential.

4) Our starting C will be a UFA next year. He gave up the most sacks of any center last year. Our starting RG (as of now) is Stapleon. Who is our backup center? Who is our future starting center?

I see MAJOR problems with the o-line particularly AFTER next year. Hell, 3 OUT OF OUR 5 STARTERS may be gone after next year. Big Ben is getting in his prime, its time to get the guy some quality o-line.

It just goes to show you how much of a good job the front office is doing in smokescreening their draft priorities...they seem to have some Steeler fans believing that the o-line is just fine and dandy.

Nothing to see here, other teams! Don't worry about us...we won't be drafting any o-lineman early! :wink:

True Fan
04-21-2009, 04:27 PM
"Our needs for this year are currently OL, DL, CB, WR in that order"

I disagree.

Our needs are DL, CB, then maybe a toss up between OL and WR.

Our OL is set for 2009. Starks can always be re tagged again next year and as someone else said, Hills could be the replacement for Colon... OR Essex.

The more I think about it- It's going to be Gilbert or Moala (sp?) at 32.

I've agreed all along with O regarding Brace at 32 for the same reasons as he mentioned... We'll see come Saturday...... the speculating is about over with......

I don't understand this...think BEYOND this coming year

1) Our o-line may be "set" but it's far from good. We are lacking talent on o-line and it shows. We have zero quality depth pushing for a starting position except for maybe Hills

2) The team obviously feels Kemo is a decent player because they resigned him so he's here to say

3) Our two STARTING tackles are UFA's next year. I have ZERO confidence that the FO will be able to extend Starks to a long-term deal. They will possibly resign Colon as a "cheaper" RT next year but I'm not counting on that either especially since these guys will be on the open market and teams will overpay (BUT it won't be the Steelers). So, next year, BOTH of our starting tackles may be GONE. What's the Steelers backup plans if thats happen? Hills is the only guy we got that seems to have potential.

4) Our starting C will be a UFA next year. He gave up the most sacks of any center last year. Our starting RG (as of now) is Stapleon. Who is our backup center? Who is our future starting center?

I see MAJOR problems with the o-line particularly AFTER next year. Hell, 3 OUT OF OUR 5 STARTERS may be gone after next year. Big Ben is getting in his prime, its time to get the guy some quality o-line.



outstanding post!
If the steelers dont address both sides of the line this year(early and often), we will be looking at the 09 season as the last one for awhile that the steelers have a chance to win number 7

steelcityrules!!
04-21-2009, 08:17 PM
I agree. However I'd rather have Robiskie over Nicks especially when you consider where either will be playing and that's inside. Robiskie is a student of the game and the more complete receiver. In my opinion he's a perfect fit in our system if we do decide to go WR that early. I was also given the impression smoke screen or not there is a very real possibility we trade up or trade down rather than staying at 32 so who knows.


I would rather have robiskie over any WR in the first (maybe not maclin)

we have two deep threats in holmes and sweed. both have shown the ability to beat guys deep, one still has to prove he can catch.

If we happen to go WR, we need a skilled technician to learn from ward and work the inside. no better WR in the draft to do that.

I also like Chadman's idea of louis delmas if he's BPA.

I'm truly stumped to be honest.

papillon
04-21-2009, 10:12 PM
"Our needs for this year are currently OL, DL, CB, WR in that order"

I disagree.

Our needs are DL, CB, then maybe a toss up between OL and WR.

Our OL is set for 2009. Starks can always be re tagged again next year and as someone else said, Hills could be the replacement for Colon... OR Essex.

The more I think about it- It's going to be Gilbert or Moala (sp?) at 32.

I've agreed all along with O regarding Brace at 32 for the same reasons as he mentioned... We'll see come Saturday...... the speculating is about over with......


So you think that we Need to draft Defensive players to improve on the #1 rated Defense when our OL gave up 46 sacks last year and struggled to block for a RB? You Think we need DL even though our DL's age we lead the league in all categories but 1? sorry we got second in that one. You want us to spend a first round pick on a CB in a very deep draft for Corners? We got Gay in the 5th. I see us drafting one late again. Its not a starter need its a depth need.

Colbert himself said we need to hit on starters in the first 3 rounds back-ups in rounds 4-5 and PS players in 6-7. So to me that means OL-DL 1-3. CB in round 4-5.

Also read Oracles post. He hit it perfectly.

Calm,

They aren't going to be drafting defensive players to improve the #1 rated defense. They are going to draft defensive players to keep it the #1 rated defense. That being said, I believe the Steelers are brewing a trade using draft picks only or some picks and a player. The Steelers are so close to the cap ceiling that they have no way of signing 9 draft picks.

I truly expect some established veterans to be traded: Hampton, Parker, Foote, Hoke, etc. If Hampton goes, then, obviously, Hoke stays and vice versa. I love Willie, but, his days may be numbered in Black and Gold. Foote is intriguing, since, he probably still has plenty in the tank and is the youngest of them all.

Saturday will tell the tale.

Pappy

calmkiller
04-21-2009, 11:16 PM
I understand that pap, I was just trying to make a point. I know there is a need a CB, but I feel there is a bigger need at OL and also DL. That is my belief anyway. Like you said we will see what the Steelers think on Saturday, or Sunday. I would do a Hampton for Parrish and a pick trade. I would do alot of different stuff if the price is right.

Chadman
04-22-2009, 12:05 AM
I understand that pap, I was just trying to make a point. I know there is a need a CB, but I feel there is a bigger need at OL and also DL. That is my belief anyway. Like you said we will see what the Steelers think on Saturday, or Sunday. I would do a Hampton for Parrish and a pick trade. I would do alot of different stuff if the price is right.

Ahh, calmkiller living up to his name!

Take a strong, but old D-Line & trade away the key ingredient in order to get younger, while at the same time become worse (Hoke= not as good as Hampton).....thus resulting in much panic on the messege board & hence- killing calm everywhere he treads.

steeler_fan_in_t.o.
04-22-2009, 12:35 AM
Isn't Ward's cap hit this coming year very high? He's in the last year of a contract that was probably back loaded to ease the cap hit when he signed it. Shouldn't the Steelers be looking at this contract?

I'd hate it, but, it may be a necessity.

Pappy

Cap hit $7.8M

Cap relief $5.8M

steeler_fan_in_t.o.
04-22-2009, 12:42 AM
Can they cut and resign a guy?
Someone like Hines, they could agree to a contract, cut and resign him. Or would that be to shady to get by with the league office.
Ward and Hampton would accept being released and resigned to a new contract without looking elsewhere. Pittsburgh is their team and they both had big parts in winning Super Bowls. They would prefer to stay with us and be the type of guys we bring out at half time of future Super Bowls.

They don't need to cut a guy to re-sign him. They must account for the same amount of pro rated SB, but they can also have a player take a pay cut if they want to cut & re-sign. That is what they did with Bettis, now you just need those guys to agree to it. The next question is why would they agree to it?

steeler_fan_in_t.o.
04-22-2009, 12:46 AM
I understand that pap, I was just trying to make a point. I know there is a need a CB, but I feel there is a bigger need at OL and also DL. That is my belief anyway. Like you said we will see what the Steelers think on Saturday, or Sunday. I would do a Hampton for Parrish and a pick trade. I would do alot of different stuff if the price is right.

Ahh, calmkiller living up to his name!

Take a strong, but old D-Line & trade away the key ingredient in order to get younger, while at the same time become worse (Hoke= not as good as Hampton).....thus resulting in much panic on the messege board & hence- killing calm everywhere he treads.

Agreed my Aussie friend, and the same thing that I'd written in the trade Hampton thread. I would consider trading Hampton this year if it were a rebuilding year. However, if you want to contend once again, you do not cut a starter and replace him with an even older backup if you don't really really have to.

calmkiller
04-22-2009, 10:50 AM
I understand that pap, I was just trying to make a point. I know there is a need a CB, but I feel there is a bigger need at OL and also DL. That is my belief anyway. Like you said we will see what the Steelers think on Saturday, or Sunday. I would do a Hampton for Parrish and a pick trade. I would do alot of different stuff if the price is right.

Ahh, calmkiller living up to his name!

Take a strong, but old D-Line & trade away the key ingredient in order to get younger, while at the same time become worse (Hoke= not as good as Hampton).....thus resulting in much panic on the messege board & hence- killing calm everywhere he treads.

:D :D Glad someone finally figured out what my name means.

It was just an idea. The Patriots have been very good following this plan. They have 3 2nd rounders this year. That was my idea from the start. I think we would be fine without Hampton. That is my opinion and I know not everyone agrees. But that is why we are all here. To discuss such things. :)

Oviedo
04-22-2009, 11:18 AM
I understand that pap, I was just trying to make a point. I know there is a need a CB, but I feel there is a bigger need at OL and also DL. That is my belief anyway. Like you said we will see what the Steelers think on Saturday, or Sunday. I would do a Hampton for Parrish and a pick trade. I would do alot of different stuff if the price is right.

Ahh, calmkiller living up to his name!

Take a strong, but old D-Line & trade away the key ingredient in order to get younger, while at the same time become worse (Hoke= not as good as Hampton).....thus resulting in much panic on the messege board & hence- killing calm everywhere he treads.

:D :D Glad someone finally figured out what my name means.

It was just an idea. The Patriots have been very good following this plan. They have 3 2nd rounders this year. That was my idea from the start. I think we would be fine without Hampton. That is my opinion and I know not everyone agrees. But that is why we are all here. To discuss such things. :)

I would take multiple Round 2 and 3 picks over a late Round 1 pick anyday of the week. Still get great talent and it helps you down the road with the salary cap.

Late Round 1 picks are typically not worth what you pay for a round 1 monicker.

papillon
04-22-2009, 04:05 PM
Isn't Ward's cap hit this coming year very high? He's in the last year of a contract that was probably back loaded to ease the cap hit when he signed it. Shouldn't the Steelers be looking at this contract?

I'd hate it, but, it may be a necessity.

Pappy

Cap hit $7.8M

Cap relief $5.8M

I'd be looking here right now, sorry, but, Hines having a cap hit of 7.8 million this season doesn't seem to make sense. As I've been saying, some tough and unpopular decisions need to be made. I would rather have a competitive team that gets into the playoffs year after year than have to suffer through 6-10, 5-11, 7-9 or even 8-8 seasons just to make one more run at a SB.

Trading some vets wouldn't preclude the Steelers from still making that run and it could set them up for the next 7-8 years which will also coincide with Ben Roethlisberger's prime years. He proved last year that he can make a silk purse out of a sow's ear on more than one occasion.

Pappy

papillon
04-22-2009, 04:13 PM
Can they cut and resign a guy?
Someone like Hines, they could agree to a contract, cut and resign him. Or would that be to shady to get by with the league office.
Ward and Hampton would accept being released and resigned to a new contract without looking elsewhere. Pittsburgh is their team and they both had big parts in winning Super Bowls. They would prefer to stay with us and be the type of guys we bring out at half time of future Super Bowls.

They don't need to cut a guy to re-sign him. They must account for the same amount of pro rated SB, but they can also have a player take a pay cut if they want to cut & re-sign. That is what they did with Bettis, now you just need those guys to agree to it. The next question is why would they agree to it?

Yes, they have to account for the prorated signing bonus over the length of the contract, but, typically, the salary escalates in the latter years of a contract like Hines and Hampton. The majority of Hines and Hampton's cap hit this year is salary; if you cut a player his salary comes off your cap number. So, they'd have dead money in the prorated signing bonus, but, be relieved of the salary number.

It's ugly, but, it's the business of NFL football and cap space.

Pappy

mshifko
04-22-2009, 04:45 PM
i agree...i don't think we're going to go in the direction a lot of people see us going (OL)...i have a suspicion we're going either DL or CB

Bandito
04-22-2009, 10:58 PM
"Our needs for this year are currently OL, DL, CB, WR in that order"

I disagree.

Our needs are DL, CB, then maybe a toss up between OL and WR.

Our OL is set for 2009. Starks can always be re tagged again next year and as someone else said, Hills could be the replacement for Colon... OR Essex.

The more I think about it- It's going to be Gilbert or Moala (sp?) at 32.

I've agreed all along with O regarding Brace at 32 for the same reasons as he mentioned... We'll see come Saturday...... the speculating is about over with......

I don't understand this...think BEYOND this coming year

1) Our o-line may be "set" but it's far from good. We are lacking talent on o-line and it shows. We have zero quality depth pushing for a starting position except for maybe Hills

2) The team obviously feels Kemo is a decent player because they resigned him so he's here to say

3) Our two STARTING tackles are UFA's next year. I have ZERO confidence that the FO will be able to extend Starks to a long-term deal. They will possibly resign Colon as a "cheaper" RT next year but I'm not counting on that either especially since these guys will be on the open market and teams will overpay (BUT it won't be the Steelers). So, next year, BOTH of our starting tackles may be GONE. What's the Steelers backup plans if thats happen? Hills is the only guy we got that seems to have potential.

4) Our starting C will be a UFA next year. He gave up the most sacks of any center last year. Our starting RG (as of now) is Stapleon. Who is our backup center? Who is our future starting center?

I see MAJOR problems with the o-line particularly AFTER next year. Hell, 3 OUT OF OUR 5 STARTERS may be gone after next year. Big Ben is getting in his prime, its time to get the guy some quality o-line.

The same can be said for the DLine and it takes longer for them to learn LeBeau's scheme.

Hampton, Keisel, Kirschke, and Eason. 2 starters and 2 top backups. Hoke is the year after. We could end up with Jordan Reffett and Scott Paxson as starters. :(

NW Steeler
04-23-2009, 01:55 AM
Hampton, Keisel, Kirschke, and Eason. 2 starters and 2 top backups. Hoke is the year after. We could end up with Jordan Reffett and Scott Paxson as starters. :(

Yeesh...where is a barfing smiley when you need one?

pfelix73
04-23-2009, 10:11 AM
Philosophically speaking, there seems to be 2 different lines of thought on this board.....

I agree that we may trade a few of our picks...Other than that, I still disagree regarding the OL. We have guys competing there now and will add a few more, I'm sure. However, we have a greater need at DL and CB- IMO.

There must be some on here that have crystal balls because I don't know how anyone can say for sure IF any of these OL are future pro bowlers.... Harrison would be a good example of what I'm talking about. The guy was cut what? 3 times? A FA 3 times? And now look at him.
Whatever.

:tt1

RuthlessBurgher
04-23-2009, 10:38 AM
Hampton, Keisel, Kirschke, and Eason. 2 starters and 2 top backups. Hoke is the year after. We could end up with Jordan Reffett and Scott Paxson as starters. :(

Yeesh...where is a barfing smiley when you need one?

Enter Jooser in 5...4...3...2...1...

stlrz d
04-23-2009, 11:09 AM
http://www.smileyvault.com/albums/basic/smileyvault-puke.gif

papillon
04-23-2009, 11:46 AM
Hampton, Keisel, Kirschke, and Eason. 2 starters and 2 top backups. Hoke is the year after. We could end up with Jordan Reffett and Scott Paxson as starters. :(

Yeesh...where is a barfing smiley when you need one?

I can't wait for Jooser...http://www.thesteelersforum.com/yabbfiles/Smilies/vomit.gif


:Cheers

Pappy

NW Steeler
04-23-2009, 12:17 PM
Hampton, Keisel, Kirschke, and Eason. 2 starters and 2 top backups. Hoke is the year after. We could end up with Jordan Reffett and Scott Paxson as starters. :(

Yeesh...where is a barfing smiley when you need one?

I can't wait for Jooser...http://www.thesteelersforum.com/yabbfiles/Smilies/vomit.gif


:Cheers

Pappy

Nice! Thanks! Yours is sweet too "d"...

:Cheers

Chavezz
04-23-2009, 09:40 PM
Ron Brace is my sleeper pick in the 1st rd.

Chavezz
04-23-2009, 09:44 PM
However Tomlin has said that you win games with skill players. His 1st year I doubt he had as much say so, last year he went RB/WR. Would he really go skill players again?

Chadman
04-23-2009, 10:18 PM
However Tomlin has said that you win games with skill players. His 1st year I doubt he had as much say so, last year he went RB/WR. Would he really go skill players again?

Colbert has overseen the drafting of EXACTLY 1 1st round DL & 1 1st round OL. Why would the Steelers change that pattern now?

RuthlessBurgher
04-24-2009, 10:03 AM
However Tomlin has said that you win games with skill players. His 1st year I doubt he had as much say so, last year he went RB/WR. Would he really go skill players again?

Colbert has overseen the drafting of EXACTLY 1 1st round DL & 1 1st round OL. Why would the Steelers change that pattern now?

Oh...I don't know...because we are thin at o-line and old at d-line?

I still suspect that he will pick the BPA in round 1 regardless of position (except for QB, RB, K, P, LS, etc.), but I view OL and DL as the priority needs that could break any tie if we are considering two similarly rated prospect that are skill vs. grunt. Wideouts and secondary are bordering on the need/want line, a few notches below our needs in the trenches. Go big, go ugly!

Steeler Mafia
04-24-2009, 10:24 AM
We need to solidify the trenches. A place where we lost a lot of battles last year. I agree with Ruthless. "GO BIG, GO UGLY!"

calmkiller
04-24-2009, 10:36 AM
Big, Ugly

Steeler Mafia
04-24-2009, 10:41 AM
Big, Ugly


I resemble that remark!