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fordfixer
04-18-2009, 10:03 AM
Steelers LB Timmons could be hard to keep out of starting lineup

http://www.profootballweekly.com/PFW/NF ... 041709.htm (http://www.profootballweekly.com/PFW/NFL/AFC/AFC+North/Pittsburgh/WWHI/2009/wwhi041709.htm)

By Mike Wilkening
April 17, 2009

In two NFL seasons, Steelers LB Lawrence Timmons has flashed considerable potential at times, and never more so than in 2008, when he notched 65 tackles and five sacks in a part-time role. The way we hear it, the feeling is Timmons will be tough to keep out of the starting lineup in 2009, likely at the expense of ILB Larry Foote. The good news for the Steelers is that Foote remains an effective run defender and would, at the very least, be a capable reserve if pushed out of the lineup. His presence has allowed the Steelers to slowly develop Timmons, who will only be 23 in May, and that approach has paid off nicely. The 6-1, 234-pound Timmons, who can also play outside linebacker, has very good athleticism and bolsters an already formidable Steelers pass rush.

flippy
04-18-2009, 10:13 AM
The DMVP race is going to be Harrison, Polamalu, Woodley, and Timmons for the next several years. This defense is so exiting. I hope we draft all defense in the draft.

Ben + Defense = championships

To heck with the offensive side of the ball as long as we have Ben.

RuthlessBurgher
04-18-2009, 10:17 AM
The DMVP race is going to be Harrison, Polamalu, Woodley, and Timmons for the next several years. This defense is so exiting. I hope we draft all defense in the draft.

Ben + Defense = championships

To heck with the offensive side of the ball as long as we have Ben.

You won't have Ben for long if you can't protect him at a reasonably acceptable level. He has weapons...now he needs big fellas whose job is to keep Ben's jersey clean.

flippy
04-18-2009, 10:19 AM
The DMVP race is going to be Harrison, Polamalu, Woodley, and Timmons for the next several years. This defense is so exiting. I hope we draft all defense in the draft.

Ben + Defense = championships

To heck with the offensive side of the ball as long as we have Ben.

You won't have Ben for long if you can't protect him at a reasonably acceptable level. He has weapons...now he needs big fellas whose job is to keep Ben's jersey clean.

Give Ben better protection and he'll hold the ball 5 secs longer....;)

Oviedo
04-18-2009, 10:21 AM
The DMVP race is going to be Harrison, Polamalu, Woodley, and Timmons for the next several years. This defense is so exiting. I hope we draft all defense in the draft.

Ben + Defense = championships

To heck with the offensive side of the ball as long as we have Ben.

You won't have Ben for long if you can't protect him at a reasonably acceptable level. He has weapons...now he needs big fellas whose job is to keep Ben's jersey clean.

Give Ben better protection and he'll hold the ball 5 secs longer....;)

I think you are right. If Ben saw both Miller and Spaeth open for 10 yard receptions he would take one more look for Santonio deep. It is just the way he is. I actually think if you had a great line he would take very second they gave him and still throw just before he got hit.

RuthlessBurgher
04-18-2009, 10:37 AM
The DMVP race is going to be Harrison, Polamalu, Woodley, and Timmons for the next several years. This defense is so exiting. I hope we draft all defense in the draft.

Ben + Defense = championships

To heck with the offensive side of the ball as long as we have Ben.

You won't have Ben for long if you can't protect him at a reasonably acceptable level. He has weapons...now he needs big fellas whose job is to keep Ben's jersey clean.

Give Ben better protection and he'll hold the ball 5 secs longer....;)

I think you are right. If Ben saw both Miller and Spaeth open for 10 yard receptions he would take one more look for Santonio deep. It is just the way he is. I actually think if you had a great line he would take very second they gave him and still throw just before he got hit.

Okay, that is probably all true. But 5 more seconds is 5 more seconds for guys to get open before he ultimately gets crunched by a defender. It is better than having a defender in your face in 1.2 seconds.

steelz09
04-18-2009, 11:07 AM
One thing that bothers me about Timmons is how long it's taking him to develop. Yes, he's still young but you have to think of it from a business perspective.

By the time Timmons "breaks out" and possibly becomes a pro bowler, he's going to be an UFA. At that time, him and Rosenhaus may ask for mega bucks which is unfair to be honest because the Steelers paid him 1.15 money for all these years as he "developed". From a business perspective, the Steelers haven't gotten their return on investment from a 1st rounder. Their paying him top dollar (1.15) money to develop. Then, when he develops into the potential pro bowler that he may become, his contract is up and then he'll probably ask for mega bucks....

So, if that happens, can they afford to keep Woodley and Timmons now that Harrison got all that money?

steelcityrules!!
04-18-2009, 12:24 PM
One thing that bothers me about Timmons is how long it's taking him to develop. Yes, he's still young but you have to think of it from a business perspective.

By the time Timmons "breaks out" and possibly becomes a pro bowler, he's going to be an UFA. At that time, him and Rosenhaus may ask for mega bucks which is unfair to be honest because the Steelers paid him 1.15 money for all these years as he "developed". From a business perspective, the Steelers haven't gotten their return on investment from a 1st rounder. Their paying him top dollar (1.15) money to develop. Then, when he develops into the potential pro bowler that he may become, his contract is up and then he'll probably ask for mega bucks....

So, if that happens, can they afford to keep Woodley and Timmons now that Harrison got all that money?


I really don't see it as he's taking so long to develop. He was drafted as a 20 year old, who was put in a group of extremely capable linebackers.

Larry foote is one of the most underrated players on our squad, and has done nothing but work his butt off and produce. Foote would start for 31 other teams IMO.

kind of a nice problem to have, and timmons has actually worked a considerable amount of game time and production onto his resume.

BURGH86STEEL
04-18-2009, 12:32 PM
One thing that bothers me about Timmons is how long it's taking him to develop. Yes, he's still young but you have to think of it from a business perspective.

By the time Timmons "breaks out" and possibly becomes a pro bowler, he's going to be an UFA. At that time, him and Rosenhaus may ask for mega bucks which is unfair to be honest because the Steelers paid him 1.15 money for all these years as he "developed". From a business perspective, the Steelers haven't gotten their return on investment from a 1st rounder. Their paying him top dollar (1.15) money to develop. Then, when he develops into the potential pro bowler that he may become, his contract is up and then he'll probably ask for mega bucks....

So, if that happens, can they afford to keep Woodley and Timmons now that Harrison got all that money?


However they played Timmons and Foote worked out fine for the defense. Timmons contributed to the team and made a few plays. Have to wonder how far into the future organizations look? Maybe not to far with most players because there are so many variables. People want Woodely extented now but what if he takes a dive like Kendrell Bell? It is probably one of the biggest reason why the Steelers wait to extend most player's contracts until the players final season. If they can keep them for what they want to pay/afford, it's all good. If they cannot, both parties move on. These types of scenerios have played out throughout the years.

I do not know what constitutes a good return on an investment. Because a player was a first round pick? How much playing time? How many plays he makes? At the end of the day it probably balances out. The Steelers are very fortunate to have depth at the LB position. They are fortunate they can let Timmons develop into a solid player. I try not to look at it from perspective of where a player was drafted or if he was a FA pick up. It has been proven that any player that makes it to the NFL can play. I try not to get caught up into financial aspects of the game. I do not think it is worth it to get disgruntled over draft status and money. Especially, when the team wins. If I were signing the pay checks maybe I would feel differently. Teams lose first round draft picks after developing them almost every off season. Unfortunately, it is the nature of the biz with free agency in today's NFL. Cannot resign and keep every one. Steelers have a really nice problem at LB. Wish we can say that about every position every year.

steelz09
04-18-2009, 12:45 PM
One thing that bothers me about Timmons is how long it's taking him to develop. Yes, he's still young but you have to think of it from a business perspective.

By the time Timmons "breaks out" and possibly becomes a pro bowler, he's going to be an UFA. At that time, him and Rosenhaus may ask for mega bucks which is unfair to be honest because the Steelers paid him 1.15 money for all these years as he "developed". From a business perspective, the Steelers haven't gotten their return on investment from a 1st rounder. Their paying him top dollar (1.15) money to develop. Then, when he develops into the potential pro bowler that he may become, his contract is up and then he'll probably ask for mega bucks....

So, if that happens, can they afford to keep Woodley and Timmons now that Harrison got all that money?


I really don't see it as he's taking so long to develop. He was drafted as a 20 year old, who was put in a group of extremely capable linebackers.

Larry foote is one of the most underrated players on our squad, and has done nothing but work his butt off and produce. Foote would start for 31 other teams IMO.

kind of a nice problem to have, and timmons has actually worked a considerable amount of game time and production onto his resume.

I think your missing my point :) I think Timmons will be fine. He is a very good "search and destroy" type player.. plays well in space. Doesn't necessary play very well when "shifting through the trash" on the inside running plays. He MUST get better at that to be a great ILB.

My issue is that we are paying a player 1.15 money to "develop". That was my argument when we drafted him. It worries me that by the time he's "developed", he'll ask for possibly top 5 LB money. This to me is unfair. Because the Steelers are paying this guy big money to learn and develop in a 3-4 ILB.. Then, when he finally does, he could screw over the organization and just go to a ****ty team that just overpays him. I think we'll get to see a glimpse of Timmon's character, when the situation comes about.

Oracle
04-18-2009, 01:47 PM
jhansle-

i think i understand what you're saying and i agree. we have been paying him too much money to be a back up for the last two years and could've picked someone at 1.15 who would've been a full time starter at another position. however, i don't think you can blame the front office for making a 'mistake' in drafting him. remember at the time, we had just released joey porter, and james harrison had never shown any signs of the superstar he was to become. even our own coaching staff who watched him every day were shocked at his production once he was given the opportunity. in a 3-4 defense, the weak side linebacker is your biggest playmaker. you can't gamble and hope that an UFA with no starting experience (harrison) can carry your defense. you have to draft the best OLB available and that was timmons.

i don't think it was so much an issue of timmons taking too long to develop. i think he was just stuck behind a surprising new starter they hadn't/couldn't anticipate. much like when the chargers drafted phillip rivers only to have drew brees emerge as a pro-bowler. only we didn't trade our 'drew brees'... we extended him.

now the question is what do we do with timmons? i see two good options. first of all, let him play out his current contract at ILB and see how he does. if he shows he can adjust to that position effectively, we re-sign him long term and save our draft pick. (i think that's what the FO is hoping for). if he shows he can't adjust, we trade him in his final year and get a new draft pick while also saving money to extend our other starters. in the meantime, remember, james harrison WILL get hurt at some point this season. WHEN he does, timmons should be able to step in without losing too much. he's not as strong as harrison, but he's much quicker and better in pass coverage. timmons could literally save us a game or two and preserve home field for the playoffs, and that alone will be worth the 1.15 pick.

in hindsight, had we known harrison would emerge, sure we would've gone with a different pick. but that's not a bad problem to have. mitch berger is a bad problem to have. willie colon is a bad problem to have.

Snatch98
04-18-2009, 03:12 PM
One thing that bothers me about Timmons is how long it's taking him to develop. Yes, he's still young but you have to think of it from a business perspective.

By the time Timmons "breaks out" and possibly becomes a pro bowler, he's going to be an UFA. At that time, him and Rosenhaus may ask for mega bucks which is unfair to be honest because the Steelers paid him 1.15 money for all these years as he "developed". From a business perspective, the Steelers haven't gotten their return on investment from a 1st rounder. Their paying him top dollar (1.15) money to develop. Then, when he develops into the potential pro bowler that he may become, his contract is up and then he'll probably ask for mega bucks....

So, if that happens, can they afford to keep Woodley and Timmons now that Harrison got all that money?


Easily one of the more ill-logical things I've read on this message board. You have to be kidding. First off since when do the Steelers draft players and require that they step right in and play? The Steelers drafted Timmons knowing that he wouldn't need to be thrown in to the lineup. He was groomed and had a great seasons last year. Now he's ready to really step in to the lineup and light it up and it's taken too long? How many rookies actually come in and contribute immediately? and how many take a year or two before coming in to their own? If he continues to progress he'll be worth the megabucks and we should be thankful we have his a$$.

steelz09
04-18-2009, 04:49 PM
One thing that bothers me about Timmons is how long it's taking him to develop. Yes, he's still young but you have to think of it from a business perspective.

By the time Timmons "breaks out" and possibly becomes a pro bowler, he's going to be an UFA. At that time, him and Rosenhaus may ask for mega bucks which is unfair to be honest because the Steelers paid him 1.15 money for all these years as he "developed". From a business perspective, the Steelers haven't gotten their return on investment from a 1st rounder. Their paying him top dollar (1.15) money to develop. Then, when he develops into the potential pro bowler that he may become, his contract is up and then he'll probably ask for mega bucks....

So, if that happens, can they afford to keep Woodley and Timmons now that Harrison got all that money?


Easily one of the more ill-logical things I've read on this message board. You have to be kidding. First off since when do the Steelers draft players and require that they step right in and play? The Steelers drafted Timmons knowing that he wouldn't need to be thrown in to the lineup. He was groomed and had a great seasons last year. Now he's ready to really step in to the lineup and light it up and it's taken too long? How many rookies actually come in and contribute immediately? and how many take a year or two before coming in to their own? If he continues to progress he'll be worth the megabucks and we should be thankful we have his a$$.

You are missing my point. My point isn't along the lines of Timmons needing time to develop. I get it. I'm kind of pissed that they "thought" he was an OLB and that wasn't the right fit and then they moved him to ILB to "see" if he'd fit in that role. However, thats a different story.

My comments are regarding money. I have a feeling that when his rookie contract is up, he'll possibly be a pro bowl player. How is that a knock on him again? But I feel that his last year of his rookie contract will be that "break out" year for him (i.e. the pro bowl year). He'll begin his peaking at that time.

However, I have a hunch that Timmons and his agent will want top 5 LB money. Why? Because he'll be in his mid-twenties and starting to peak. He'll want that money because Timmons (and his agent) will know that it'll probably be his biggest payday. Because his third contract will be somewhere around 30 (or so). The 2nd contract typically is the largest.

To me, the contract isn't warrented. Woodley's 2nd contract should outweight Timmons because of PRODUCTIVITY (NOT CEILING) IMO but I don't think it'll be the case. Woodley will probably have hit his ceiling (or damn close to it) and Timmons will just be starting to peak. It just seems unfair that someone that is "developing" will be getting paid MORE than someone that is producing at a higher level just because of their possible ceiling.

steelz09
04-18-2009, 04:57 PM
I just think that we could see a possible conflict when Timmons' first contract is up. I think they'll want to negotiate based on "possible ceiling" rather than productivity throughout his first contract. To me, that's what is bothering me and I have a feeling this scenario could play out.

If his second contract demands are based on his productivity throughout his first contract (which may include 1 pro bowl year - just a guess) then I think we'll get a FAIR deal done.

If it's based on what he'll do in the future well then I could see a holdout and possible Timmons on another team for his second contract. If that happens, I would consider the Timmons pick a bad draft pick. Why? Because you don't spend that amount of time and resources (i.e. MONEY) developing a player during their EARLY years and then have them go elsewhere during their prime. I don't think it'll come down to that (and it shouldn't). That's why I say we'll see a lot about Timmons and his character when the time comes.

steelernation77
04-18-2009, 05:02 PM
The people who question whether or not we should have taken Timmons must have not watched much of the season last year. Timmons was huge on 3rd down. Timmons was able to match-up and blanket tight ends and running backs, which allowed Troy to sit back in deep coverage.

Discipline of Steel
04-19-2009, 07:42 AM
in the meantime, remember, james harrison WILL get hurt at some point this season. WHEN he does, timmons should be able to step in without losing too much. he's not as strong as harrison, but he's much quicker and better in pass coverage.

That may be true...but James Harrison netted the greatest play in Super Bowl history when he dropped back into coverage. and remember the interviews during Super Bowl week. Harrison was shooting his mouth off about how he was disappointed the coaches were telling him he would be dropping into coverage more during that game. I thought he was just talking BS to throw the Cardinals a curve. Turns out, he almost 'predicted' what ultimately happened.

Timmons will perform this year and his new contract (or lack thereof) will be based on what he achieves. No worries mon 8)