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steelz09
04-18-2009, 09:48 AM
Throughout the draft talk, I don't think theres been a name thrown around more than Alex Mack. Last year, it's was Brandon Albert.

Why do you all think we'll draft Mack?

Here's my :2c on why they'll take Mack with 1.32

1) Hartwig is in the last year of his contract. It is wise to have a C learn for one year before starting them at the C position. Mack could immediately start at guard

2) Smart player / leader that could anchor the line for years.

3) The best center in this years draft

4) Steelers desperately need better talent along the o-line especially the interior.

Here's my :2c on why they WON'T take Mack with 1.32

1) He won't be there. If he's one of the very few "Can't miss prospects" then why wouldn't a team that's drafting BPA take Mack? I could see a quality team take him late in the 1st round but before 1.32.

2) There is quality depth at the center position this year. We could get a quality guy possibly in the 2nd or even the 3rd such as: Wood, Unger, Shipley, etc. This may be better value and allow us to take a DE or CB in round 1 while still getting our C of the future later on.

3) Someone else falls that is higher than Mack on their BPA chart. Is this a DE, a CB, a WR. Do they have Gilbert ranked higher than Mack? What about Ron Brace? What about Alphonso Smith?

4) Darnell Stapleton is the Steelers future C. He struggled at times at guard last year but I think it was a good learning experience. Is he a career backup? A starting guard? A center (i.e. the steelers always said he was their backup center). It's difficult to know the Steelers intentions regarding Stapleton's future.

Discipline of Steel
04-18-2009, 09:51 AM
Yes, he would be a solid pick indeed. But a lot of things have to fall in place before we use our #32 pick on him. Based on that, our odds are less than 50% that we pick him.

Flasteel
04-18-2009, 10:02 AM
I voted yes, but that is contingent on whether he is available. I've already praised Mack enough on this board and don't want to be guilty of pimping the guy too hard when there are so many teams picking ahead of us.

Oviedo
04-18-2009, 10:19 AM
I think the Steelers like Woods and Unger better than Mack. However if they pick anyone of the three it will be a good pick. Not being desperate is a good problem to have and I think the team is far less desperate than fans are.

Picking a CB would be the only pick that would make me unhappy but what does that matter.

flippy
04-18-2009, 10:22 AM
I don't want a lineman in round 1. But I suspect a lineman might be the BPA so I put Mack in my Mock draft. I hated doing it.

I want a stud DLineman or CB. I also wouldn't mind a WR.

steelz09
04-18-2009, 10:59 AM
I think the Steelers like Woods and Unger better than Mack. However if they pick anyone of the three it will be a good pick. Not being desperate is a good problem to have and I think the team is far less desperate than fans are.

Picking a CB would be the only pick that would make me unhappy but what does that matter.

Oviedo makes it very clear his dislike for Mack at 1.32. :)

One thing I would love to know ... is how the H3LL do you know that the Steelers like Woods and Unger better than Mack? Is there proof of this that I should know about? Are you really Kevin Colbert? Possibly Mike Tomlin? Rooney? :Cheers

steelcityrules!!
04-18-2009, 12:32 PM
I can't see how they would like woods or unger BETTER than mack, mack is considered one of the most dominating centers in the last 15 years is he not? on top of that, he's a home run off of the field, and smart to boot.

he should be gone by pick 25, but who knows... maybe the idiots running the perennial cellar-dweller teams will pick the guys with flash and attitude and greedy agents again.

the two part question is:
will mack be there at #32 ( I highly doubt it)
and if he is, would there be another player that falls to us who they consider a better talent, as we could get a great starting-caliber interior linemen in rounds 2-3?

I do love this time of year.
:Beer

frankthetank1
04-19-2009, 05:56 PM
i would love mack at 1.32. i doubt he will be there though. i have no problem with a cb in the first but i eould hate a wr unless its nicks. if the steelers trade for parrish then they wont draft a wr

BigLebowski
04-19-2009, 06:16 PM
We won't have the chance to draft him, unless we move up. But would love it if he fell to us.

Oviedo
04-19-2009, 06:35 PM
I can't see how they would like woods or unger BETTER than mack, mack is considered one of the most dominating centers in the last 15 years is he not? on top of that, he's a home run off of the field, and smart to boot.

he should be gone by pick 25, but who knows... maybe the idiots running the perennial cellar-dweller teams will pick the guys with flash and attitude and greedy agents again.

the two part question is:
will mack be there at #32 ( I highly doubt it)
and if he is, would there be another player that falls to us who they consider a better talent, as we could get a great starting-caliber interior linemen in rounds 2-3?

I do love this time of year.
:Beer

Actually what I know is that I drive the Mack "man lovers" nuts by suggesting that Unger or Wood will get picked as your post has proven again. :wink:

In reality I would take anyone of the three and be happy. My only real aversion at 1.32 would be a CB. Order of preference: OL, DL, WR

WoodleyofTroy
04-19-2009, 07:37 PM
I can't see how they would like woods or unger BETTER than mack, mack is considered one of the most dominating centers in the last 15 years is he not? on top of that, he's a home run off of the field, and smart to boot.

he should be gone by pick 25, but who knows... maybe the idiots running the perennial cellar-dweller teams will pick the guys with flash and attitude and greedy agents again.

the two part question is:
will mack be there at #32 ( I highly doubt it)
and if he is, would there be another player that falls to us who they consider a better talent, as we could get a great starting-caliber interior linemen in rounds 2-3?

I do love this time of year.
:Beer

Actually what I know is that I drive the Mack "man lovers" nuts by suggesting that Unger or Wood will get picked as your post has proven again. :wink:

In reality I would take anyone of the three and be happy. My only real aversion at 1.32 would be a CB. Order of preference: OL, DL, WR

Are you saying you hated the Roethlisberger and Heath Miller picks? Mack is getting the same kind of "love".

pfelix73
04-19-2009, 09:05 PM
OK- for the sake of an argument, IF the Centers are deep and we can get one later on in like round 3 or 4 (Shipley) and the CB's are deep this year too and we can get one in the later rounds, could it be possible that they use the 1st rounder for a playmaker?

Say WR?

OR

would they go Safety like Chadman stated in a thread, or DL?

I'm starting to think the odds are:

DL
S
WR

Not OL or CB.

:tt1

If we go BPA, chances are 1 of those 3 positions might be it--- someone would fall to us perhaps....

Steel Life
04-19-2009, 09:37 PM
Honestly...who among us here thinks Shipley can be a starter at center?

At only 6'1" tall with 29" arms & hands only 8-1/2", do any of you really think he has the size to succeed against the likes of Shaun Rogers (6'-4", 350), Haloti Ngata (6'-4", 345) or even Domata Peko (6'-3", 335)? C'mon...take off the PSU-homer glasses.

Besides, we already have one too-short center on the roster - Doug Legursky (6'-1", 325) - & that's more than enough.

RuthlessBurgher
04-20-2009, 09:53 AM
Honestly...who among us here thinks Shipley can be a starter at center?

At only 6'1" tall with 29" arms & hands only 8-1/2", do any of you really think he has the size to succeed against the likes of Shaun Rogers (6'-4", 350), Haloti Ngata (6'-4", 345) or even Domata Peko (6'-3", 335)? C'mon...take off the PSU-homer glasses.

Besides, we already have one too-short center on the roster - Doug Legursky (6'-1", 325) - & that's more than enough.

Yeah, I have Shipley as the 6th rated center behind Mack, Wood, Unger, Luigs, and Caldwell. A.Q. is a worst case scenario option only. Now that I think about it, I would even take a small school ultility lineman like Eastern Michigan's T.J. Lang over Shipley, actually.

pfelix73
04-20-2009, 01:41 PM
Guys who have never played on any level.....^

You want your C to be short and stocky so they can get better leverage up underneath.
Shipley will be just fine as a C in the NFL.

Go play your PlayStation.

RuthlessBurgher
04-20-2009, 01:51 PM
Guys who have never played on any level.....^

You want your C to be short and stocky so they can get better leverage up underneath.
Shipley will be just fine as a C in the NFL.

Go play your PlayStation.

Sorry...you don't want offensive lineman with short arms that allow a defender to get close enough to make arm moves easily. Shipley's 29 3/4" arms and 8 1/2" hands are by far the smallest of any o-lineman at the combine. I hope Shipley's thumbs are long enough to reach the buttons on his PlayStation. :lol:

Oviedo
04-20-2009, 02:05 PM
Guys who have never played on any level.....^

You want your C to be short and stocky so they can get better leverage up underneath.
Shipley will be just fine as a C in the NFL.

Go play your PlayStation.

Sorry...you don't want offensive lineman with short arms that allow a defender to get close enough to make arm moves easily. Shipley's 29 3/4" arms and 8 1/2" hands are by far the smallest of any o-lineman at the combine. I hope Shipley's thumbs are long enough to reach the buttons on his PlayStation. :lol:

I've said this before. The key is whether he can use his height to his advantage. Given his performance in college I think that he probably can. Dealing with big NTs it is really who can gain leverage and he would logically have an advantage there. Then it just becomes a matter of strength. I think it is more how good are you at using what you have not what you have. Ask Tony Mandarich or Robert Gallery.

I'm not a professional scout like many of you :wink: so I still have a hard time seeing the advantage of arm length that equates to less than the width of the "post it note" on my desk.

pfelix73
04-20-2009, 02:17 PM
Bingo.....O... I concur......

I'm sorry. But when some of these (college scouts) come on here and state certain things like he can't play in the NFL because of this and that, it is just funny and entertaining to read.

Next, we'll be told that they weren't any good at the college level and they never should've been allowed to play on a div. 1 ball team.

RuthlessBurgher
04-20-2009, 03:11 PM
Bingo.....O... I concur......

I'm sorry. But when some of these (college scouts) come on here and state certain things like he can't play in the NFL because of this and that, it is just funny and entertaining to read.

Next, we'll be told that they weren't any good at the college level and they never should've been allowed to play on a div. 1 ball team.

I'm not saying he can't play at this level (I was trying to be funny with the PlayStation thumbs thing), but I think he is an average center prospect in an unusually deep center draft (and I think it is time to get an elite center prospect...the best to come out in years to bring back the days of Mansfield, Webster, Dawson, and Hartings, where you knew that you had a rock in the middle of the line and did not have to worry about that position for the next decade).

http://assets.sbnation.com/assets/84986/mackladies.jpg

The size of his arms and hands are one of the reasons why he is a second day prospect instead of an elite guy (but then again, Ryan Leaf had all of the physical tools and Tom Brady was physically inferior, so you never know). Judging by reports, the Steelers are impressed by Shipley, so I may have to get used to having him on our team, but I think he is a 4th round prospect at this point (that's not necessarily an insult, though). If the Steelers decide to take Shipley earlier than I would have, I will trust them and accept it, since they obviously have way more resources at hand than I do (for example, I thought Spaeth would make a good Steeler but figured he was be a 5th round prospect...I wasn't overly thrilled that they used a 3rd round pick on him, but I got over it). Here is some Shipley pro-Steeler info posted on NFLDraftScout.com:


03/19/09 - A.Q. Shipley has visited with the Steelers, met with the boss and once again impressed their scouts. Now, after Penn State's pro day yesterday at Holuba Hall, the question remains: Does his undersized profile fit the one established by Hall of Fame center Mike Webster? "Absolutely, he's a prototypical Steelers center," said Shipley's agent, Eric Metz. If nothing else, Shipley, named the Rimington Trophy winner as Division I's top center last season, could make for an intriguing midround pick for the Steelers at the NFL draft April 25-26. In a tale of the tape, Shipley would outweigh the late Webster by 51 pounds (306-255), but both stand 6 feet 1. Phil Kreidler, the Steelers' pro/college scout, declined to comment on Shipley yesterday. But Shipley, a Moon High School graduate, stopped by the team's South Side practice facility Monday. "I met with [coach Mike] Tomlin and Kevin Colbert for about 40, 45 minutes," Shipley said. "And then I met with coach [Larry] Zierlein, their offensive line coach. We watched a little film, talked some football and then I got a tour of the facility. "Everything went well and I know they like me a lot." - Ron Musselman, Pittsburgh Post-Gazette

papillon
04-20-2009, 03:16 PM
'm not saying he can't play at this level (I was trying to be funny with the PlayStation thumbs thing), but I think he is an average center prospect in an unusually deep center draft (and I think it is time to get an elite center prospect...the best to come out in years to bring back the days of Mansfield, Webster, Dawson, and Hartings, where you knew that you had a rock in the middle of the line and did not have to worry about that position for the next decade).


http://www.thesteelersforum.com/yabbfiles/Smilies/praying.gif

http://www.thesteelersforum.com/yabbfiles/Smilies/pope.gif

Pappy

Steel Life
04-21-2009, 12:29 AM
Guys who have never played on any level.....^

You want your C to be short and stocky so they can get better leverage up underneath.
Shipley will be just fine as a C in the NFL.

Go play your PlayStation.

Sorry...you don't want offensive lineman with short arms that allow a defender to get close enough to make arm moves easily. Shipley's 29 3/4" arms and 8 1/2" hands are by far the smallest of any o-lineman at the combine. I hope Shipley's thumbs are long enough to reach the buttons on his PlayStation. :lol:
First of all...WTF on the never played at any level comment? :roll:
Second...Dawson, Hartings & Hartwig are all bigger than Shipley, so are you inferring that the Steelers were defying convention during their runs? I guess we missed out on Marvin Phillip tearing up the league while he was here.

Also, regarding your "scout" comment - what makes your assessment any more valid than mine or anyone else's here? We're all just spouting opinion here, what's wrong with stating mine?...You're obviously not shy about sharing yours.

GreggyDigital
04-21-2009, 10:36 AM
If he slides to us at 32, I believe we'll pick him.

GreggyDigital
04-21-2009, 10:44 AM
Guys who have never played on any level.....^

You want your C to be short and stocky so they can get better leverage up underneath.
Shipley will be just fine as a C in the NFL.

Go play your PlayStation.

Lets just look at the 4 Probowl center from last year:

Andre Gurode
Height: 6-4 Weight: 318

Shaun O'Hara
Height: 6-3 Weight: 303

Kevin Mawae
Height: 6-4 Weight: 289

Nick Mangold
Height: 6-4 Weight: 300

These actually completely debunks your original postulate that centers are suppose to be short and compact.

papillon
04-21-2009, 10:47 AM
Guys who have never played on any level.....^

You want your C to be short and stocky so they can get better leverage up underneath.
Shipley will be just fine as a C in the NFL.

Go play your PlayStation.

Lets just look at the 4 Probowl center from last year:

Andre Gurode
Height: 6-4 Weight: 318

Shaun O'Hara
Height: 6-3 Weight: 303

Kevin Mawae
Height: 6-4 Weight: 289

Nick Mangold
Height: 6-4 Weight: 300

These actually completely debunks your original postulate that centers are suppose to be short and compact.

I believe Wood, Unger, Luigs and Mack are all at least 6'3" and over 300 pounds as well.

Pappy

steelz09
04-21-2009, 02:28 PM
wow .. these poll results are close .. 16 Yes 16 No

Can't wait till draft day(s)

Oviedo
04-21-2009, 02:31 PM
wow .. these poll results are close .. 16 Yes 16 No

Can't wait till draft day(s)

Only thing for sure is that at least 75% of the members of this board will be upset, feel betrayed or spouting gloom and doom.

pfelix73
04-21-2009, 02:50 PM
"Dawson, Hartings & Hartwig are all bigger than Shipley"

Dawson was 6'2". OK-so 'technically' you have me there. but just by an inch.

My point in all of this is that these freakin numbers you guys go by don't mean a hill of beans when it comes right down to it. Obviously, your C and G are going to be smaller than your OT's.. At least that how it used to be- The Eagles and some of your pass happy teams seem to go by a different structure. Or it's just coincidence.

Anyway- Shipley was what? voted the nation's best Center last year and very few on here including the likes of Kiper, etc. are giving him the cold shoulder? Makes no sense to me. The guy can play football and would be a big asset to this team. Don't get me wrong- so would a Wood, Unger, or Mack too, but I just don't see much in the way of a big enough difference in them between some going late in round 1, round 2, or 3.

Therefore, I'd rather see them get a DL, CB, WR, with that 32nd pick and then get their C later. That's just my .02 worth.

:tt2

Steeler Mafia
04-21-2009, 02:57 PM
There isn't a WR or CB worthy of the 32nd pick in the draft. We can get the same value in the 3rd and 4th rounds for these positions.

Oviedo
04-21-2009, 03:01 PM
There isn't a WR or CB worthy of the 32nd pick in the draft. We can get the same value in the 3rd and 4th rounds for these positions.

Agree, but you could also make the same statement about Centers and Guards. That doesn't leave many positions to choose from so I'll take DL and either Ron Brace or Fili Maola.

pfelix73
04-21-2009, 03:02 PM
Or Gilbert......

Agreed with your logic.....

steelz09
04-21-2009, 03:04 PM
Draft scout has Fili projected as a third rounder.

pfelix73
04-21-2009, 03:30 PM
And the Steelers might have him as a 1st. Guess who wins out?

RuthlessBurgher
04-21-2009, 04:02 PM
And the Steelers might have him as a 1st. Guess who wins out?

Fili's bank account?

RuthlessBurgher
04-21-2009, 04:15 PM
"Dawson, Hartings & Hartwig are all bigger than Shipley"

Dawson was 6'2". OK-so 'technically' you have me there. but just by an inch.

My point in all of this is that these freakin numbers you guys go by don't mean a hill of beans when it comes right down to it. Obviously, your C and G are going to be smaller than your OT's.. At least that how it used to be- The Eagles and some of your pass happy teams seem to go by a different structure. Or it's just coincidence.

Anyway- Shipley was what? voted the nation's best Center last year and very few on here including the likes of Kiper, etc. are giving him the cold shoulder? Makes no sense to me. The guy can play football and would be a big asset to this team. Don't get me wrong- so would a Wood, Unger, or Mack too, but I just don't see much in the way of a big enough difference in them between some going late in round 1, round 2, or 3.

Therefore, I'd rather see them get a DL, CB, WR, with that 32nd pick and then get their C later. That's just my .02 worth.

:tt2

Just because someone won a college award for the best at his position does not mean he will make a good pro (there are many Heisman winners as the best player in all of college football who were never even drafted)

After our victory in Super Bowl XL, we drafted center Marvin Philip from Cal, who was fresh off winning the Rimington Award that Shipley just won. We cut the awarding-winning center Marvin Philip after one season (when we brought in Mahan), then he moved to Cleveland, then the practice squads of the Ravens and Saints, and now he will try to make it with the Bills.

Ironically, I am promoting the guy who took over Philip's spot when he left Cal to also go to the Pittsburgh Steelers in the draft following our victory in Super Bowl XLIII. Go figure.

pfelix73
04-21-2009, 04:35 PM
As far as your last post- I know.

As far as your second to last post- I know that too. $$$$$$$$$$$$$$

I'm done discussing this crap. Because it's all out of our hands.............

What happens.... happens....

:tt1

RuthlessBurgher
04-21-2009, 04:40 PM
As far as your last post- I know.

As far as your second to last post- I know that too. $$$$$$$$$$$$$$

I'm done discussing this crap. Because it's all out of our hands.............

What happens.... happens....

:tt1

After the draft is over, I don't know if I will let out a "Wooooo!" or a "Whew!" :mrgreen:

Mel Blount's G
04-21-2009, 08:15 PM
There isn't a WR or CB worthy of the 32nd pick in the draft. We can get the same value in the 3rd and 4th rounds for these positions.
Even if Darius Butler and Vontae Davis were still there? I'm actually just :arrow: :stirpot because I will be choked if we take a cb at #32. My vote is for Mack if he is still on the board which I don't believe he will be. Would we trade up to get him? What would we be willing to give up? This is the real question for this poll. If he's not available and we do not attmept to move up, other OL's I consider at #32 are Unger (who I consider not so very different from Mack), and maayyybee Oher, Wood or Britton. However it plays out, I'm hoping the Steelers are seriously looking to draft some protective security for their large inve$tmentberger if a top OL recruit falls to #32 here. There are very few other picks I'll be jumping for joy for here, though in the end I'll trust the steelers scouting and decisions over mine :tt2

RuthlessBurgher
04-21-2009, 09:06 PM
[quote="Steeler Mafia":xff65tdg]There isn't a WR or CB worthy of the 32nd pick in the draft. We can get the same value in the 3rd and 4th rounds for these positions.
Even if Darius Butler and Vontae Davis were still there? I'm actually just :arrow: :stirpot because I will be choked if we take a cb at #32. My vote is for Mack if he is still on the board which I don't believe he will be. Would we trade up to get him? What would we be willing to give up? This is the real question for this poll. If he's not available and we do not attmept to move up, other OL's I consider at #32 are Unger (who I consider not so very different from Mack), and maayyybee Oher, Wood or Britton. However it plays out, I'm hoping the Steelers are seriously looking to draft some protective security for their large inve$tmentberger if a top OL recruit falls to #32 here. There are very few other picks I'll be jumping for joy for here, though in the end I'll trust the steelers scouting and decisions over mine :tt2[/quote:xff65tdg]

Maayyybee Oher??? I'm one of the biggest Mack supporters on here, but if Oher falls anywhere within striking distance, I would forget about Mack in a second and would be all about trading up to get Oher. I doubt Oher gets past Buffalo at #11, though.

Mel Blount's G
04-21-2009, 09:32 PM
Well, I know he's rates highly Ruth and if you go by that, he'll be gone in the top 15. I guess what my point was is I don't want that 1.32 wasted on a second tier guy like many consider Loadholt to be. Truth is, I want it all. Not only do I insist on an OL but it's got to be a top-rated one. I am commanding all other teams to draft qb's, wr's, rb's, te's, Lb's, de's, s's, etc,.. etc... so that these TOP OL's drop to us!! I am commanding it!!! Teams must give us a little consideration since year after year we are forced to draft in or near the cellar. It's the least they can do for us. Arizona should hand down Mack to us should they find themselves with an opportunity to draft him since we let them hang around in the SB with us and we made it appear they were competing with us. Where is the love I ask?

RuthlessBurgher
04-22-2009, 08:35 AM
Well, I know he's rates highly Ruth and if you go by that, he'll be gone in the top 15. I guess what my point was is I don't want that 1.32 wasted on a second tier guy like many consider Loadholt to be. Truth is, I want it all. Not only do I insist on an OL but it's got to be a top-rated one. I am commanding all other teams to draft qb's, wr's, rb's, te's, Lb's, de's, s's, etc,.. etc... so that these TOP OL's drop to us!! I am commanding it!!! Teams must give us a little consideration since year after year we are forced to draft in or near the cellar. It's the least they can do for us. Arizona should hand down Mack to us should they find themselves with an opportunity to draft him since we let them hang around in the SB with us and we made it appear they were competing with us. Where is the love I ask?

I think there are 4 OT's in the top tier (top half of the first round): The Smiths, Monroe, and Oher. I think there are are 2 OT's in the second tier (bottom half of the first round): Britton and Beatty. I think there are 2 OT's in the third tier (second round): Meredith and Loadholt.

RuthlessBurgher
04-22-2009, 02:48 PM
Since this thread is about Alex Mack, I figured that I would link to Joe Bendel's Podcast page on Fox Sports Pittsburgh (970 AM)'s website, where he interviewed Mack yesterday.

http://www.fox970.com/cc-common/podcast/single_podcast.html?podcast=joe_bendel.xml

buckeyehoppy
04-22-2009, 07:59 PM
The Steelers have to take Mack if he is on the board at 1.32.

There can't be a discussion about this. He is likely to be the best player at his position which, ironically enough, is a position of need for the Steelers. If he isn't at or near the top of the Steelers board, then there is a major disconnection going on in the synapses of Colbert and his Brain (Fart) Trust.

If he isn't there, so be it. If that will be the case, however, I will be apoplectic if the Steelers do nothing to shore up the trenches on either side of the ball with their first pick of the day. There will be more players of value on the defensive side of the ball (that being the case, a player like Evander Hood is of great interest).

It is very likely that if Mack isn't on the board when the Steelers go in the first that there will be at least one OL or DL who would be a good value pick at 1.32 and that would need to be the way the Steelers will need to go to start their draft this year.

RuthlessBurgher
04-22-2009, 08:51 PM
I don't see Ziggy Hood projecting to the 3-4. He's a 4-3 DT. He doesn't fit as either a DE or NT in the 3-4.

Slapstick
04-23-2009, 11:46 AM
In my opinion, it would certainly be difficult to ignore Alex Mack if he's there at #32...

When you consider that:

1)He is the highest rated player at his position

and

B)The Browns and Bengals could pick Tyson Jackson and B.J. Raji with consecutive picks in the first round...also, don't forget Ngata over in Ratville

With that in mind, perhaps putting the highest rated Center prospect in a decade directly in front of your franchise QB may not be a horrible idea...