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Oviedo
04-17-2009, 07:59 AM
Actually a logical well thought out assessment that identifies Unger or Wood as the favorites. I would be very happy with either of them at 1.32.


Setting the odds on Steelers' first pick


By Jim Wexell
SteelCityInsider.com
Posted Apr 16, 2009


SteelCityInsider.com publisher Jim Wexell isn't accepting bets, but he does provide the odds on whom the Steelers will draft in the first round of next week's draft.

As a self-described “personnel junkie,” Steelers Coach Mike Tomlin is stringing together quite a list of catch-phrases pertaining to the draft.
One of them, made during his first year as coach, described a linebacker we in Western Pa. thought was a tough, consistent, Jack Ham type of player.

“That boy’s as ordinary as a bowl of grits,” Tomlin said, off the record, of the player his team was getting ready to play. Tomlin, that year, had picked Lawrence Timmons, and the bar was set: The new coach goes for quick-twitch over steady and safe.

However, that philosophy is changing a bit as Tomlin works into his third season. Here’s what he told Steelers Digest after being asked what type of player he’s targeting this draft:

“I see it with increasing clarity the longer I have my job. I’m looking for guys who are talented and have humility, because the guys who are humble and even-keeled are the guys who will come into this thing and fit in, they’ll continue to grow and get better, they’ll take the criticisms of their game, they’ll be accountable.”

For anyone who’s ever played with a prima donna at any level of any sport, this is heartening news. While a player such as Vontae Davis is anything but “a bowl of grits” with his speed and outrageous musculature for a cornerback, he’s been a pain in the rear end for his coaches and will ultimately be that for his next team. So cross Davis off the list, and probably any of the 26 players who reportedly tested positive for drugs at the combine.

Who’s being accountable? Who’s being humble? Who’ll continue to grow? Who’ll fit into that championship locker room by keeping his mouth shut, while at the same time raising the overall talent level?

Well, these are my guesses:

1. Darius Butler, CB, UConn – A conversation with a scout the other day convinced me that Butler is the CB for the Steelers over Alphonso Smith (“In three years, he’s still going to be 5-8”). I talked to Butler at the combine and quickly sensed the required humility and business-like approach. He also has the talent with his quick feet and stick-em hands, and his return skills would make him an A-plus grab for the Steelers. Problem is, he’ll probably be gone. Odds: 15-1.

2. Eben Britton, OT, Arizona – Another Tomlin-ism comes into play here. Last season, the coach was asked for his philosophy on drafting O-linemen, and he said “tackles, tackles, tackles,” meaning those are the better athletes and they can always be moved inside. Well, that’s the only reason Britton’s listed here because it’s unlikely the Steelers will reach for a finesse pass-blocker at the end of the first round. Such a pick would force Willie Colon inside. If this were Eugene Monroe, moving Colon would be the right move, but moving starters to make room for questionable rookies is too risky. Odds: 12-1.

3. Ziggy Hood, DE, Missouri – This athletic marvel was awful against the run as a gap-shooting tackle last season, and would seemingly not fit as a 3-4 end. But the Steelers love his athleticism and humility and figure he’d take well to the necessary coaching. However, a 4-3 team such as the Colts is a more likely landing spot for Hood, and if the Steelers are going to draft a player in the first round who doesn’t score touchdowns, or cover those who do, it’ll likely be an offensive lineman. Odds: 8-1.

4. Brian Robiskie, WR, Ohio State – The son of an NFL assistant coach, Robiskie is a real sleeper because of the run-first freshman QB at Ohio State last season. But Robiskie has the size and speed, and could also fit as a kickoff returner, not to mention as a big-and-nifty slot receiver. Big-and-nifty is by no means “boring grits,” as well-coached, disciplined kids like Robiskie can appear to be. Odds: 6-1.

5. Max Unger, C/G, Oregon – The big man appears here ahead of Alex Mack because of his versatility. Unger played LT at Oregon for two years, and that spikes the Steelers’ grades. He’s also adept at pulling after making a shotgun snap, which scouts say is rare. This player might be the best bet on this board, since the favorite is more highly regarded than originally expected. Odds: 4-1.

6. Eric Wood, C/G, Louisville – Not quite as tall and rangy as Unger, who could put on another 20 pounds, but Wood is more passionate about the game. In the Senior Bowl, he not only handled B.J. Raji, but showed surprising move skills as a guard, which were reaffirmed at the combine. While those move skills will never resemble Dermontti Dawson’s, Wood’s work ethic and attitude should spark flashbacks of Mike Webster, which fits Tomlin’s overriding draft theme. Odds: 5-2.

Oviedo
04-17-2009, 10:04 AM
I will add that:

I will be very happy if Vontae Davis is not under consideration.

I'm sure selecting Hood will raise the debate of eventually going to a 4-3 again.

I think Robiskie would be a huge reach at 1.32 so I don't see that happening but Colbert surprises us in Round 1 every year and it seems to always work out.

steelblood
04-17-2009, 10:45 AM
I'd be very disappointed if we drafted Unger or Hood. We need physical tough guys on our lines.

SteelBucks
04-17-2009, 10:49 AM
I think Robiskie would be a huge reach at 1.32 so I don't see that happening but Colbert surprises us in Round 1 every year and it seems to always work out.

I was watching a draft special on ESPN last night and they said don't be surprised if Robiskie is taken in the first round. Apparently, he's moving up and Percy Harvin is moving down.

Oviedo
04-17-2009, 10:49 AM
I'd be very disappointed if we drafted Unger or Hood. We need physical tough guys on our lines.

I guess I'm not sure how to quantify "tough." Seems like a very ambiguous lable that can be applied to someone or not applied to someone to support an opinion. I really doubt that Unger is as highly rated as he is because he isn't "tough." I'm more concerned with someone being "good" more than "tough."

SteelCzar76
04-17-2009, 11:06 AM
For anyone who’s ever played with a prima donna at any level of any sport, this is heartening news. While a player such as Vontae Davis is anything but “a bowl of grits” with his speed and outrageous musculature for a cornerback, he’s been a pain in the rear end for his coaches and will ultimately be that for his next team. So cross Davis off the list, and probably any of the 26 players who reportedly tested positive for drugs at the combine.


Sooo,.....i guess the fact that they brought Davis in for a visit means virtually nothing ? And nor does the fact that Santo (along with half of the league) blazes up,.. yet he is not a criminal or head case ? (Are we really to believe that he just started as much when he turned pro and that the NFL whom goes over a prospect's background like the NSA was not aware?)

I'm just sayin,...i do not care about a prospect and Marijuana use. What i would be wary of though are players with criminal records, poor work ethic, lack of discipline and very low 'football' IQ's.

SteelCzar76
04-17-2009, 11:10 AM
I was watching a draft special on ESPN last night and they said don't be surprised if Robiskie is taken in the first round. Apparently, he's moving up and Percy Harvin is moving down.


And i hope that Percy continues to drop,...all the way to #32. And then go on with Santonio, Hines, and Ben to punish the rest of the league for it,......

SteelCzar76
04-17-2009, 11:13 AM
I'd be very disappointed if we drafted Unger or Hood. We need physical tough guys on our lines.

I most certainly agree you regarding Unger. Though i feel Hood is very physical,..he's just inconsistent.

Oviedo
04-17-2009, 11:15 AM
I was watching a draft special on ESPN last night and they said don't be surprised if Robiskie is taken in the first round. Apparently, he's moving up and Percy Harvin is moving down.


And i hope that Percy continues to drop,...all the way to #32. And then go on with Santonio, Hines, and Ben to punish the rest of the league for it,......

Of all the potential Round 1 picks, Harvin probably has the best chance of becoming the next "Pacman." Lots of things I hear out of Gainesville is that he is a bad time waiting to happen.

stlrz d
04-17-2009, 11:19 AM
I was watching a draft special on ESPN last night and they said don't be surprised if Robiskie is taken in the first round. Apparently, he's moving up and Percy Harvin is moving down.


And i hope that Percy continues to drop,...all the way to #32. And then go on with Santonio, Hines, and Ben to punish the rest of the league for it,......

Of all the potential Round 1 picks, Harvin probably has the best chance of becoming the next "Pacman." Lots of things I hear out of Gainesville is that he is a bad time waiting to happen.

I hope some team takes him way before 32. I want nothing to do with the guy.

SteelCzar76
04-17-2009, 11:28 AM
I was watching a draft special on ESPN last night and they said don't be surprised if Robiskie is taken in the first round. Apparently, he's moving up and Percy Harvin is moving down.


And i hope that Percy continues to drop,...all the way to #32. And then go on with Santonio, Hines, and Ben to punish the rest of the league for it,......

Of all the potential Round 1 picks, Harvin probably has the best chance of becoming the next "Pacman." Lots of things I hear out of Gainesville is that he is a bad time waiting to happen.


I feel you O. But i do not think that Harvin is the kind of cat that at the end of the day would throw away everything that he's worked his entire life for for the sake of "stunting". As he (like the rest of his peers) have most certainly witnessed what that did for Pac-man and Mike Vick.

I do not feel Harvin is cut from that cloth. I think he's just an extremely driven and confident kid. (Perhaps egotistical) And that rubs some people the wrong way. But i'd prefer to have confident hard working players whom want to win as opposed to the "just good enough to get by" minded individuals.

As WoodleyOfTroy mentioned before in a previous thread,...i agree that under the tutelage of our Coaching staff, (Tomlin in particular) and surrounded by the class of men on our roster, he would not only maximize his football potential, but his said potential as an individual period.

Slapstick
04-17-2009, 11:49 AM
Sooo,.....i guess the fact that they brought Davis in for a visit means virtually nothing ? And nor does the fact that Santo (along with half of the league) blazes up,.. yet he is not a criminal or head case ? (Are we really to believe that he just started as much when he turned pro and that the NFL whom goes over a prospect's background like the NSA was not aware?)

I'm just sayin,...i do not care about a prospect and Marijuana use. What i would be wary of though are players with criminal records, poor work ethic, lack of discipline and very low 'football' IQ's.

Santonio may have lit up, but he has never been a problem for coaches like Davis has...

Oviedo
04-17-2009, 11:53 AM
I was watching a draft special on ESPN last night and they said don't be surprised if Robiskie is taken in the first round. Apparently, he's moving up and Percy Harvin is moving down.


And i hope that Percy continues to drop,...all the way to #32. And then go on with Santonio, Hines, and Ben to punish the rest of the league for it,......

Of all the potential Round 1 picks, Harvin probably has the best chance of becoming the next "Pacman." Lots of things I hear out of Gainesville is that he is a bad time waiting to happen.


I feel you O. But i do not think that Harvin is the kind of cat that at the end of the day would throw away everything that he's worked his entire life for for the sake of "stunting". As he (like the rest of his peers) have most certainly witnessed what that did for Pac-man and Mike Vick.

I do not feel Harvin is cut from that cloth. I think he's just an extremely driven and confident kid. (Perhaps egotistical) And that rubs some people the wrong way. But i'd prefer to have confident hard working players whom want to win as opposed to the "just good enough to get by" minded individuals.

As WoodleyOfTroy mentioned before in a previous thread,...i agree that under the tutelage of our Coaching staff, (Tomlin in particular) and surrounded by the class of men on our roster, he would not only maximize his football potential, but his said potential as an individual period.


His talent is not in doubt. The most troubling thing I hear (and Mayock kinda confirmed the other night on NFL Network) is that he hangs with a "posse" of old buddies some of who are not quality indviduals. Sound familiar?????

SteelCzar76
04-17-2009, 11:59 AM
Santonio may have lit up, but he has never been a problem for coaches like Davis has...


Oh, i fully agree Slap. I wasn't 'cosigning' Davis,.. i was speaking up on Harvin's behalf. I want nothing to do with Davis,..not because of Marijuana use,...but his lack of work ethic in terms of willingness to apply himself to game.

And that's something that i think is not 'coached up' either your born with or more often than not it isn't meant to be. And i also feel he's getting a great deal more accolades than he should simply because of the average nature of this seasons entire DB class as a whole.

stlrz d
04-17-2009, 12:44 PM
I was watching a draft special on ESPN last night and they said don't be surprised if Robiskie is taken in the first round. Apparently, he's moving up and Percy Harvin is moving down.


And i hope that Percy continues to drop,...all the way to #32. And then go on with Santonio, Hines, and Ben to punish the rest of the league for it,......

Of all the potential Round 1 picks, Harvin probably has the best chance of becoming the next "Pacman." Lots of things I hear out of Gainesville is that he is a bad time waiting to happen.


I feel you O. But i do not think that Harvin is the kind of cat that at the end of the day would throw away everything that he's worked his entire life for for the sake of "stunting". As he (like the rest of his peers) have most certainly witnessed what that did for Pac-man and Mike Vick.

I do not feel Harvin is cut from that cloth. I think he's just an extremely driven and confident kid. (Perhaps egotistical) And that rubs some people the wrong way. But i'd prefer to have confident hard working players whom want to win as opposed to the "just good enough to get by" minded individuals.

As WoodleyOfTroy mentioned before in a previous thread,...i agree that under the tutelage of our Coaching staff, (Tomlin in particular) and surrounded by the class of men on our roster, he would not only maximize his football potential, but his said potential as an individual period.


His talent is not in doubt. The most troubling thing I hear (and Mayock kinda confirmed the other night on NFL Network) is that he hangs with a "posse" of old buddies some of who are not quality indviduals. Sound familiar?????

Like I said, I hope some other team takes him long before 1.32.

SteelCzar76
04-17-2009, 01:05 PM
His talent is not in doubt. The most troubling thing I hear (and Mayock kinda confirmed the other night on NFL Network) is that he hangs with a "posse" of old buddies some of who are not quality indviduals. Sound familiar?????

Again, i see your point O. But perhaps the most decisive factor in terms of his (Harvin) relationship with old friends is the whether or not he's an 'Alpha' as opposed to being naive and too willing to please his "crew". Meaning,..an Alpha does not allow his friends or Loved ones poor decisions or lack of character on their part to be detrimental to his career and or well being.

Ie: You love your friends unconditionally, but if they are up to some 'dumb sh#t' you decide whether or not your 'in'. And if that is going to be detrimental to your life, ya gotta 'cut your losses' and move on. Because at the end of the Day,..an actual friend would understand that you cannot compromise all that you are and have for the sake of their desires. (as opposed to an actual need)

And Harvin doesn't strike me as the type of individual whom is naive and or a 'sucker'.

RuthlessBurgher
04-17-2009, 02:19 PM
Like I said, I hope some other team takes him long before 1.32.

I cringe every time I hear reports to guys like Harvin possibly sliding, because I am counting on guys like that to be taken in the top 31, allowing another guy that we really want to possibly fall into our laps at #32.

calmkiller
04-17-2009, 02:58 PM
If Alex Mack doesn't drop to us I hope we select a DT in the first round. Mack is the only Center I would use a 1st rounder on. CB is an option but I think we can get quality later in the draft for much cheaper.

steelers43
04-17-2009, 03:27 PM
I was watching a draft special on ESPN last night and they said don't be surprised if Robiskie is taken in the first round. Apparently, he's moving up and Percy Harvin is moving down.


And i hope that Percy continues to drop,...all the way to #32. And then go on with Santonio, Hines, and Ben to punish the rest of the league for it,......

Yeah, I always look at players that are dropping. Heath, Santonio are two that recently fell due to some questions or injuries.

Vontae Davis would be a nice addition but how could you pass Percy Harvin up? He's basically Reggie Bush.

I'm hoping Raji did test positive and drops to 32.

SteelBucks
04-17-2009, 03:32 PM
I was watching a draft special on ESPN last night and they said don't be surprised if Robiskie is taken in the first round. Apparently, he's moving up and Percy Harvin is moving down.


And i hope that Percy continues to drop,...all the way to #32. And then go on with Santonio, Hines, and Ben to punish the rest of the league for it,......

Yeah, I always look at players that are dropping. Heath, Santonio are two that recently fell due to some questions or injuries.

Vontae Davis would be a nice addition but how could you pass Percy Harvin up? He's basically Reggie Bush.

I'm hoping Raji did test positive and drops to 32.

Is this THE steelers43 from the Trib?

steelers43
04-17-2009, 03:42 PM
I was watching a draft special on ESPN last night and they said don't be surprised if Robiskie is taken in the first round. Apparently, he's moving up and Percy Harvin is moving down.


And i hope that Percy continues to drop,...all the way to #32. And then go on with Santonio, Hines, and Ben to punish the rest of the league for it,......

Yeah, I always look at players that are dropping. Heath, Santonio are two that recently fell due to some questions or injuries.

Vontae Davis would be a nice addition but how could you pass Percy Harvin up? He's basically Reggie Bush.

I'm hoping Raji did test positive and drops to 32.

Is this THE steelers43 from the Trib?

yep

SteelCzar76
04-17-2009, 06:35 PM
Yeah, I always look at players that are dropping. Heath, Santonio are two that recently fell due to some questions or injuries.

Vontae Davis would be a nice addition but how could you pass Percy Harvin up? He's basically Reggie Bush.

I'm hoping Raji did test positive and drops to 32.

I don't think of Harvin in the same sense as Reggie,..sure there is similarity in terms explosiveness and athleticism, but i consider Harvin a receiver first whom happened to be talented enough to be used at times as a back.

Reggie has always and still considers himself a tailback. (Though it could be argued that this is much to his detriment at league level.)

steelers43
04-19-2009, 05:30 PM
Yeah, I always look at players that are dropping. Heath, Santonio are two that recently fell due to some questions or injuries.

Vontae Davis would be a nice addition but how could you pass Percy Harvin up? He's basically Reggie Bush.

I'm hoping Raji did test positive and drops to 32.

I don't think of Harvin in the same sense as Reggie,..sure there is similarity in terms explosiveness and athleticism, but i consider Harvin a receiver first whom happened to be talented enough to be used at times as a back.

Reggie has always and still considers himself a tailback. (Though it could be argued that this is much to his detriment at league level.)

They are both a big play waiting to happen. We don't currently have a playmaker like them on our roster.

frankthetank1
04-19-2009, 05:39 PM
I was watching a draft special on ESPN last night and they said don't be surprised if Robiskie is taken in the first round. Apparently, he's moving up and Percy Harvin is moving down.


And i hope that Percy continues to drop,...all the way to #32. And then go on with Santonio, Hines, and Ben to punish the rest of the league for it,......

Yeah, I always look at players that are dropping. Heath, Santonio are two that recently fell due to some questions or injuries.

Vontae Davis would be a nice addition but how could you pass Percy Harvin up? He's basically Reggie Bush.

I'm hoping Raji did test positive and drops to 32.

i would actually rather have brace than raji. i dont think raji would be a great 3-4 NT. harvin is reggie bush, he is definetly not your typical wr. im not sure how he would fit with the steelers offense though. i would rather have nicks than harvin but i think nicks will be drafted before 1.32

phillyesq
04-19-2009, 05:44 PM
I had been leaning towards Mack for a while. Recently, I've been leaning towards Wood a bit more, but I would be happy with either. I really hope they don't take Unger. Hopefully somebody grabs him for his versatility before he makes it to the Steelers.

BigLebowski
04-19-2009, 05:46 PM
I want no part of Davis, he will be a bust like his brother. He will run his mouth like his brother. He is not a Steeler.

But if Harvin falls to us, all i can say is WOW. With that speed and those moves..... :tt2 :tt2 :tt2


I would be happy with Mack, or Unger at the end of round one, if only for their versatilty.

:2c

BigLebowski
04-19-2009, 05:48 PM
... I really hope they don't take Unger. Hopefully somebody grabs him for his versatility before he makes it to the Steelers.

It is his versatility that has me thinking the fit might be perfect.

BigLebowski
04-19-2009, 05:49 PM
They are both a big play waiting to happen. We don't currently have a playmaker like them on our roster.

agreed.

Lebsteel
04-19-2009, 08:45 PM
I was watching a draft special on ESPN last night and they said don't be surprised if Robiskie is taken in the first round. Apparently, he's moving up and Percy Harvin is moving down.


And i hope that Percy continues to drop,...all the way to #32. And then go on with Santonio, Hines, and Ben to punish the rest of the league for it,......

Yeah, I always look at players that are dropping. Heath, Santonio are two that recently fell due to some questions or injuries.

Vontae Davis would be a nice addition but how could you pass Percy Harvin up? He's basically Reggie Bush.

I'm hoping Raji did test positive and drops to 32.

Is this THE steelers43 from the Trib?

yep

Welcome 43! It has been a while, good to see you posting here!

pfelix73
04-19-2009, 09:01 PM
What's wrong with Unger?

The guy has only started for 4 straight years with 2 of them at OT for sakes! Kind of sounds like another Sam Baker but will be destined to play G or C instead of T.

Personally, at the end of round 1, if they took him I'd be very happy with him competing for a starting position.......

:2c

Steel Life
04-19-2009, 09:47 PM
If Harvin's there at 32...they should see if anybody's interested & see if we can get their pick in the second & an additional 3rd or 4th (or maybe work with Indy for their 2nd & Pierre Garcon,WR). Either way, I'd like to have the flexibility to make sure we can get Gilbert in the 2nd.

steelers43
04-19-2009, 10:13 PM
If Harvin's there at 32...they should see if anybody's interested & see if we can get their pick in the second & an additional 3rd or 4th (or maybe work with Indy for their 2nd & Pierre Garcon,WR). Either way, I'd like to have the flexibility to make sure we can get Gilbert in the 2nd.


Why?

A few questions.

1. Who will we get that will have a greater impact on our team at that spot?

2. What will we do with the extra picks? We only have about 4-5 spots even available for rookies to make the team and we already have 9 picks. If anything we need to move player or picks for future picks, not add more picks for this year.

Harvin instantly fills the need of another receiver and instant playmaker waiting to happen both on offense and special teams.

If he's there, he should no doubt be the pick. I can't imagine anyone there adding more to the team.

Chadman
04-19-2009, 10:28 PM
Anyone considered the possibility of the Steelers grabbing Louis Delmas at #32? They brought him in, he's a proven player at the college level, he fits a need for the Steelers in terms of a 2-year plan. Ryan Clark is 30, enters the last year of his contract this season...Steelers don't tend to overspend on players in that demographic.

Delmas is the #1 Safety on the board....

steelers43
04-19-2009, 10:56 PM
Anyone considered the possibility of the Steelers grabbing Louis Delmas at #32? They brought him in, he's a proven player at the college level, he fits a need for the Steelers in terms of a 2-year plan. Ryan Clark is 30, enters the last year of his contract this season...Steelers don't tend to overspend on players in that demographic.

Delmas is the #1 Safety on the board....

Delmas or Moore in round 2 is a possible target imo. I don't think we are looking at either one for round 2.

William Moore is a player I'd like to see next to Troy.

steelcityrules!!
04-20-2009, 07:10 AM
If Harvin's there at 32...they should see if anybody's interested & see if we can get their pick in the second & an additional 3rd or 4th (or maybe work with Indy for their 2nd & Pierre Garcon,WR). Either way, I'd like to have the flexibility to make sure we can get Gilbert in the 2nd.


Why?

A few questions.

1. Who will we get that will have a greater impact on our team at that spot?

2. What will we do with the extra picks? We only have about 4-5 spots even available for rookies to make the team and we already have 9 picks. If anything we need to move player or picks for future picks, not add more picks for this year.

Harvin instantly fills the need of another receiver and instant playmaker waiting to happen both on offense and special teams.

If he's there, he should no doubt be the pick. I can't imagine anyone there adding more to the team.


Hey there 43, long time no see.

I think I would rather have robiskie or delmas over harvin, harvin may have the "physical traits" of a star, but's always hurt and is a primadonna.

my thoughts anyhow.

steelblood
04-20-2009, 08:26 AM
I'd be very disappointed if we drafted Unger or Hood. We need physical tough guys on our lines.

I guess I'm not sure how to quantify "tough." Seems like a very ambiguous lable that can be applied to someone or not applied to someone to support an opinion. I really doubt that Unger is as highly rated as he is because he isn't "tough." I'm more concerned with someone being "good" more than "tough."

I'll quantify it for you.

Toughness
Unger is a 3.5
Mack is a 7.5
Wood is a 8.0
:tt1

SteelCzar76
04-20-2009, 08:56 AM
I'd be very disappointed if we drafted Unger or Hood. We need physical tough guys on our lines.

I guess I'm not sure how to quantify "tough." Seems like a very ambiguous lable that can be applied to someone or not applied to someone to support an opinion. I really doubt that Unger is as highly rated as he is because he isn't "tough." I'm more concerned with someone being "good" more than "tough."

I'll quantify it for you.

Toughness
Unger is a 3.5
Mack is a 7.5
Wood is a 8.0
:tt1



Well said,....but i'd also add that in terms of physical, Intellectual and emotional toughness Shipley is a 10.0. (The Kid was initially a DT coming into College, yet he made an almost seamless transition into being a dominant pure Center)

So where does that leave the Organization in terms of whom do they select ? Based upon size it would be Mack, based upon upside it would be Wood, based upon skill set it would be Unger, and based upon Toughness and productivity it would be Shipley.

I think the determining factors in terms of which prospect the Organization will select this weekend (and henceforth at which point in the Draft) will be a matter of whom Tomlin has a greater affinity for on a personal level, along with whom his coaching staff feels is a better fit for how they are attempting to go about the business of having not only a productive offense, but one that is consistent and once again,...Physical.

Oviedo
04-20-2009, 09:00 AM
I'd be very disappointed if we drafted Unger or Hood. We need physical tough guys on our lines.

I guess I'm not sure how to quantify "tough." Seems like a very ambiguous lable that can be applied to someone or not applied to someone to support an opinion. I really doubt that Unger is as highly rated as he is because he isn't "tough." I'm more concerned with someone being "good" more than "tough."

I'll quantify it for you.

Toughness
Unger is a 3.5
Mack is a 7.5
Wood is a 8.0
:tt1



Well said,....but i'd also add that in terms of physical, Intellectual and emotional toughness Shipley is a 10.0. (The Kid was initially a DT coming into College, yet he made an almost seamless transition into being a dominant pure Center)

So where does that leave the Organization in terms of whom do they select ? Based upon size it would Mack, based upon upside it would be Wood, based upon skill set it would be Unger, and based upon Toughness and productivity it would be Shipley.

I think the determining factors in terms of which prospect the Organization will select this weekend (and henceforth at which point in the Draft) will be a matter of whom Tomlin has a greater affinity for on a personal level, along with whom his coaching staff feels is a better fit for how they are attempting to go about the business of having not only a productive offense, but one that is consistent and once again,...Physical.

That has made it perfectly clear :? :? :?

SteelCzar76
04-20-2009, 09:09 AM
Anyone considered the possibility of the Steelers grabbing Louis Delmas at #32? They brought him in, he's a proven player at the college level, he fits a need for the Steelers in terms of a 2-year plan. Ryan Clark is 30, enters the last year of his contract this season...Steelers don't tend to overspend on players in that demographic.

Delmas is the #1 Safety on the board....


Though i do agree with you that we have a need for another stud safety on the horizon. And i like Delmas,...the kid is made of strong stuff. (And he's come along way to being on the threshold of playing in the NFL.)

I'd also have to say that,.....i think that given a better safety class, (say Taylor Mays had declared, Moore wouldn't have completely fallen off, and Patrick Chung had better speed and was a factor in Coverage),...he (Delmas) wouldn't possibly be considered a 1st round pick. A very solid mid second,...but not a first.

Meaning i think that he is being "pushed" up the boards not necessarily because of his ability as much as because of the fact that his peers are so lacking this year.

But then again who knows,....perhaps he's to safeties this year what Jerod Mayo was to Backers in last year's Draft ?

Steel Life
04-20-2009, 09:17 AM
If Harvin's there at 32...they should see if anybody's interested & see if we can get their pick in the second & an additional 3rd or 4th (or maybe work with Indy for their 2nd & Pierre Garcon,WR). Either way, I'd like to have the flexibility to make sure we can get Gilbert in the 2nd.
Why?

A few questions.

1. Who will we get that will have a greater impact on our team at that spot?

2. What will we do with the extra picks? We only have about 4-5 spots even available for rookies to make the team and we already have 9 picks. If anything we need to move player or picks for future picks, not add more picks for this year.

Harvin instantly fills the need of another receiver and instant playmaker waiting to happen both on offense and special teams.

If he's there, he should no doubt be the pick. I can't imagine anyone there adding more to the team.
I understand the attraction to Harvin, but he isn't a "need" player & given his propensity for injury, how much good will he do us from the training room? He reminds me of Chad Jackson (also of Florida) & Sinorice Moss, neither of whom could get on track because of injury issues. Now, do I think they'll pick a WR in this draft - absolutely - but they won't spend the 1st pick on an oft-injured player with a prima-donna attitude & drug & associations issues to boot. To illustrate, here's a quote from a recent article regarding the team's draft strategy...
"...instead of focusing on players at particular positions, Coach Mike Tomlin and Director of Football Operations Kevin Colbert will make decisions based on the kind of people those players are.

“I see it with increasing clarity the longer I have my job,” said Tomlin. “I’m looking for guys who are talented and have humility, because the guys who are humble and even-keeled are the guys who will come into this thing and fit in, they’ll continue to grow and get better, they’ll take the criticisms of their game, they’ll be accountable.”

Regarding the strategy of dangling Harvin for more picks...I clearly stated that my objective was for draft flexibility & a means to assure they get the players they want. I could care less if they chose to trade away any number of picks or go up & down in the draft - so long as they quality. I'm like you, I don't think there are that many spots available on the squad, but they need to shore up certain areas & create healthy competition in others.

SteelCzar76
04-20-2009, 09:18 AM
I'd be very disappointed if we drafted Unger or Hood. We need physical tough guys on our lines.

I guess I'm not sure how to quantify "tough." Seems like a very ambiguous lable that can be applied to someone or not applied to someone to support an opinion. I really doubt that Unger is as highly rated as he is because he isn't "tough." I'm more concerned with someone being "good" more than "tough."

I'll quantify it for you.

Toughness
Unger is a 3.5
Mack is a 7.5
Wood is a 8.0
:tt1



Well said,....but i'd also add that in terms of physical, Intellectual and emotional toughness Shipley is a 10.0. (The Kid was initially a DT coming into College, yet he made an almost seamless transition into being a dominant pure Center)

So where does that leave the Organization in terms of whom do they select ? Based upon size it would Mack, based upon upside it would be Wood, based upon skill set it would be Unger, and based upon Toughness and productivity it would be Shipley.

I think the determining factors in terms of which prospect the Organization will select this weekend (and henceforth at which point in the Draft) will be a matter of whom Tomlin has a greater affinity for on a personal level, along with whom his coaching staff feels is a better fit for how they are attempting to go about the business of having not only a productive offense, but one that is consistent and once again,...Physical.

That has made it perfectly clear :? :? :?

:lol: Yeah,...i know that may be a bit vague O,...but unless we definitively know whom made the greatest impact on Tomlin and his staff on a personal level,..it's kind of hard to say whom they will select out of the "big Uglies". (As it could be justifiably argued on behalf of all of them by their particular supporters that each are worthy)

I like Eric Wood but my gut (along with other "forcasting" that i use) tells me it's Ship. But i guess that we'll just have to wait and see ?

SteelCzar76
04-20-2009, 09:33 AM
[quote="Steel Life":3ot2t6kh]If Harvin's there at 32...they should see if anybody's interested & see if we can get their pick in the second & an additional 3rd or 4th (or maybe work with Indy for their 2nd & Pierre Garcon,WR). Either way, I'd like to have the flexibility to make sure we can get Gilbert in the 2nd.
Why?

A few questions.

1. Who will we get that will have a greater impact on our team at that spot?

2. What will we do with the extra picks? We only have about 4-5 spots even available for rookies to make the team and we already have 9 picks. If anything we need to move player or picks for future picks, not add more picks for this year.

Harvin instantly fills the need of another receiver and instant playmaker waiting to happen both on offense and special teams.

If he's there, he should no doubt be the pick. I can't imagine anyone there adding more to the team.
I understand the attraction to Harvin, but he isn't a "need" player & given his propensity for injury, how much good will he do us from the training room? He reminds me of Chad Jackson (also of Florida) & Sinorice Moss, neither of whom could get on track because of injury issues. Now, do I think they'll pick a WR in this draft - absolutely - but they won't spend the 1st pick on an oft-injured player with a prima-donna attitude & drug & associations issues to boot. To illustrate, here's a quote from a recent article regarding the team's draft strategy...
"...instead of focusing on players at particular positions, Coach Mike Tomlin and Director of Football Operations Kevin Colbert will make decisions based on the kind of people those players are.

“I see it with increasing clarity the longer I have my job,” said Tomlin. “I’m looking for guys who are talented and have humility, because the guys who are humble and even-keeled are the guys who will come into this thing and fit in, they’ll continue to grow and get better, they’ll take the criticisms of their game, they’ll be accountable.”

Regarding the strategy of dangling Harvin for more picks...I clearly stated that my objective was for draft flexibility & a means to assure they get the players they want. I could care less if they chose to trade away any number of picks or go up & down in the draft - so long as they quality. I'm like you, I don't think there are that many spots available on the squad, but they need to shore up certain areas & create healthy competition in others.[/quote:3ot2t6kh]


Good post, nice insight. However i would think that it would be fair to say that an exceptional gamebreaking WR is a need for this team considering how inconsistent this offense was in terms of being able to score points last season.

What i mean is Hines is Hines,...he's gonna be productive, but let's be honest he's in the twighlight of his career. Sweed is still an unknown commodity, and Santo though a considerable game changing talent,..cannot be expected to do it all alone and or provide game winning heroics every week.

And again,... i'll go on record as saying that not only do i feel Harvin's "issues" are being blown out of proportion, but that if there is only one Coach in the league that could help the kid maximize his potential at all levels on and off of the field,..it's Mike Tomlin.

And as such,..the folly on our part would not be in Drafting Harvin,..but in passing on him when he could be a very important factor in taking our offense to the same level of productivity as to which we perform with on the defensive side of the ball. (given that Ben's prepared and the O-line begins to Gel as well)

And that's very bad news for the rest of the League,......

Oviedo
04-20-2009, 09:44 AM
[quote="Steel Life":2sj73xbr]If Harvin's there at 32...they should see if anybody's interested & see if we can get their pick in the second & an additional 3rd or 4th (or maybe work with Indy for their 2nd & Pierre Garcon,WR). Either way, I'd like to have the flexibility to make sure we can get Gilbert in the 2nd.
Why?

A few questions.

1. Who will we get that will have a greater impact on our team at that spot?

2. What will we do with the extra picks? We only have about 4-5 spots even available for rookies to make the team and we already have 9 picks. If anything we need to move player or picks for future picks, not add more picks for this year.

Harvin instantly fills the need of another receiver and instant playmaker waiting to happen both on offense and special teams.

If he's there, he should no doubt be the pick. I can't imagine anyone there adding more to the team.
I understand the attraction to Harvin, but he isn't a "need" player & given his propensity for injury, how much good will he do us from the training room? He reminds me of Chad Jackson (also of Florida) & Sinorice Moss, neither of whom could get on track because of injury issues. Now, do I think they'll pick a WR in this draft - absolutely - but they won't spend the 1st pick on an oft-injured player with a prima-donna attitude & drug & associations issues to boot. To illustrate, here's a quote from a recent article regarding the team's draft strategy...
"...instead of focusing on players at particular positions, Coach Mike Tomlin and Director of Football Operations Kevin Colbert will make decisions based on the kind of people those players are.

“I see it with increasing clarity the longer I have my job,” said Tomlin. “I’m looking for guys who are talented and have humility, because the guys who are humble and even-keeled are the guys who will come into this thing and fit in, they’ll continue to grow and get better, they’ll take the criticisms of their game, they’ll be accountable.”

Regarding the strategy of dangling Harvin for more picks...I clearly stated that my objective was for draft flexibility & a means to assure they get the players they want. I could care less if they chose to trade away any number of picks or go up & down in the draft - so long as they quality. I'm like you, I don't think there are that many spots available on the squad, but they need to shore up certain areas & create healthy competition in others.


Good post, nice insight. However i would think that it would be fair to say that an exceptional gamebreaking WR is a need for this team considering how inconsistent this offense was in terms of being able to score points last season.

What i mean is Hines is Hines,...he's gonna be productive, but let's be honest he's in the twighlight of his career. Sweed is still an unknown commodity, and Santo though a considerable game changing talent,..cannot be expected to do it all alone and or provide game winning heroics every week.

And again,... i'll go on record as saying that not only do i feel Harvin's "issues" are being blown out of proportion, but that if there is only one Coach in the league that could help the kid maximize his potential at all levels on and off of the field,..it's Mike Tomlin.

And as such,..the folly on our part would not be in Drafting Harvin,..but in passing on him when he could be a very important factor in taking our offense to the same level of productivity as to which we perform with on the defensive side of the ball. (given that Ben's prepared and the O-line begins to Gel as well)

And that's very bad news for the rest of the League,......[/quote:2sj73xbr]

I would be OK with a WR in Rounds 1-3. You can't think that Hines gets through another season without an injury and Santonio has not exactly been an "ironman" in his first frew seasons.

I do however has serious reservations about harvin both from a durability issue and a personal conduct issue. In Gainesville they have said he lives in "percy world" In other words he is a huge prima dona who "rolls with a posse" of old buddies.

I think I'd rather grab a high character kid like Derrick Williams in Round 2 or 3 and get OL help in Round 1.

stlrz d
04-20-2009, 10:36 AM
Good post, nice insight. However i would think that it would be fair to say that an exceptional gamebreaking WR is a need for this team considering how inconsistent this offense was in terms of being able to score points last season.

What i mean is Hines is Hines,...he's gonna be productive, but let's be honest he's in the twighlight of his career. Sweed is still an unknown commodity, and Santo though a considerable game changing talent,..cannot be expected to do it all alone and or provide game winning heroics every week.

And again,... i'll go on record as saying that not only do i feel Harvin's "issues" are being blown out of proportion, but that if there is only one Coach in the league that could help the kid maximize his potential at all levels on and off of the field,..it's Mike Tomlin.

And as such,..the folly on our part would not be in Drafting Harvin,..but in passing on him when he could be a very important factor in taking our offense to the same level of productivity as to which we perform with on the defensive side of the ball. (given that Ben's prepared and the O-line begins to Gel as well)

And that's very bad news for the rest of the League,......

Who in their right mind wants a guy that needs that kind of special attention right off the bat?

Who in their right mind wants to take that kind of gamble?

I realize that players don't have attitude problems and do what they're supposed to do in video games, but this is real life and taking this kind of chance on a first round pick at a skill position that ranks right behind QB in terms of difficulty to play at the NFL level is simply foolish.

SteelCzar76
04-20-2009, 11:55 AM
Good post, nice insight. However i would think that it would be fair to say that an exceptional gamebreaking WR is a need for this team considering how inconsistent this offense was in terms of being able to score points last season.

What i mean is Hines is Hines,...he's gonna be productive, but let's be honest he's in the twighlight of his career. Sweed is still an unknown commodity, and Santo though a considerable game changing talent,..cannot be expected to do it all alone and or provide game winning heroics every week.

And again,... i'll go on record as saying that not only do i feel Harvin's "issues" are being blown out of proportion, but that if there is only one Coach in the league that could help the kid maximize his potential at all levels on and off of the field,..it's Mike Tomlin.

And as such,..the folly on our part would not be in Drafting Harvin,..but in passing on him when he could be a very important factor in taking our offense to the same level of productivity as to which we perform with on the defensive side of the ball. (given that Ben's prepared and the O-line begins to Gel as well)

And that's very bad news for the rest of the League,......

Who in their right mind wants a guy that needs that kind of special attention right off the bat?

Who in their right mind wants to take that kind of gamble?

I realize that players don't have attitude problems and do what they're supposed to do in video games, but this is real life and taking this kind of chance on a first round pick at a skill position that ranks right behind QB in terms of difficulty to play at the NFL level is simply foolish.


Taking what kind of chance ? Are you speaking of the kind of assumed risk based upon hearsay as you were not personally in any confrontations with the said player ? Or do you mean the assumed risk in terms of the said player smoking Marijuana, wearing flashy Jewelry, clothing and having friends whom aren't exactly "squares" ? (much like many players already on your very roster whom are not menaces to society and or your organization ?)

RuthlessBurgher
04-20-2009, 12:29 PM
If Harvin's there at 32...they should see if anybody's interested & see if we can get their pick in the second & an additional 3rd or 4th (or maybe work with Indy for their 2nd & Pierre Garcon,WR). Either way, I'd like to have the flexibility to make sure we can get Gilbert in the 2nd.

With the proposed Indy trade, are you suggesting that we move from the 32nd pick overall to the 61st pick overall and only getting WR Pierre Garcon in return? A late first round pick has the value of 2 late second round picks. Are you attributing late second round value to '08 sixth round pick Pierre Garcon? Yikes. :shock:

steelers43
04-20-2009, 10:25 PM
I look at it as a benefit vs. downside factor.

His upside is a huge benefit, one that you rarely get with the 32nd pick. Imagine adding Reggie Bush to our offense.

That far outweighs any type of "attitude" issue that may exist.

After all, we just gave $48 million to a guy who hit a woman. Good thing he doesn't have an "attitude."

Steel Life
04-20-2009, 11:56 PM
I don't know guys...players like Harvin & Davis are enticing talents, but from their comments it seems as though Tomlin & Colbert are clear on the type of player that they want & those two don't fit. If we've seen anything from Tomlin in his short time here, it's that he doesn't "babysit" players (i.e. Santonio, Willie, Hampton, Smith) & I don't see him being willing to do so here. So get used to the idea of a guy like Mack or someone like that wearing the Black & Gold.

steelers43
04-21-2009, 12:10 AM
I don't know guys...players like Harvin & Davis are enticing talents, but from their comments it seems as though Tomlin & Colbert are clear on the type of player that they want & those two don't fit. If we've seen anything from Tomlin in his short time here, it's that he doesn't "babysit" players (i.e. Santonio, Willie, Hampton, Smith) & I don't see him being willing to do so here. So get used to the idea of a guy like Mack or someone like that wearing the Black & Gold.

What is SO bad about a kid who has been treated like royalty because he can run having an attitude?

He'll get a quick attitude adjustment when Troy lays him out in practice and he'll realize his skills are rare but not so rare any longer.

RuthlessBurgher
04-21-2009, 08:50 AM
I don't know guys...players like Harvin & Davis are enticing talents, but from their comments it seems as though Tomlin & Colbert are clear on the type of player that they want & those two don't fit. If we've seen anything from Tomlin in his short time here, it's that he doesn't "babysit" players (i.e. Santonio, Willie, Hampton, Smith) & I don't see him being willing to do so here. So get used to the idea of a guy like Mack or someone like that wearing the Black & Gold.

What is SO bad about a kid who has been treated like royalty because he can run having an attitude?

He'll get a quick attitude adjustment when Troy lays him out in practice and he'll realize his skills are rare but not so rare any longer.

Troy wouldn't do that in practice...and Anthony Smith is no longer on the team. :lol:

SteelCzar76
04-21-2009, 09:22 AM
I don't know guys...players like Harvin & Davis are enticing talents, but from their comments it seems as though Tomlin & Colbert are clear on the type of player that they want & those two don't fit. If we've seen anything from Tomlin in his short time here, it's that he doesn't "babysit" players (i.e. Santonio, Willie, Hampton, Smith) & I don't see him being willing to do so here. So get used to the idea of a guy like Mack or someone like that wearing the Black & Gold.

What is SO bad about a kid who has been treated like royalty because he can run having an attitude?

He'll get a quick attitude adjustment when Troy lays him out in practice and he'll realize his skills are rare but not so rare any longer.

Troy wouldn't do that in practice...and Anthony Smith is no longer on the team. :lol:

:lol: I think that what he's trying to say is that, due to the amount of tough, proven, character/class professionals that we have on the team,....supposed "primadonna" behavior would not fly.

Not only because the players and Coaching staff won't allow it...but also because in effect,... players whom become Steelers (for the most part) desire and or come to desire to live up to the tradition that comes with being a member of this organization.

The Steeler legacy is a tremendous one,....and at the end of the day,..what would a truly great football player desire more than performing at a high level upon an exceptional team ? The money is a given,....but greatness however,...the kind that makes a man immortal,..is far more difficult to attain.