Reason for not getting younger on the D-line ?,...

[SteelCzar76]

From the Bleacher Report

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1487 ... ng-younger (http://bleacherreport.com/articles/148703-pittsburgh-steelers-defensive-line-the-reason-for-not-getting-younger)







There has been much speculation as the why the Pittsburgh Steelers have not improved the average age of their defensive line.

Prior to the 2008 NFL Draft, everyone believed that the Steelers were going to address both the offensive and defensive lines in the first two rounds. At the conclusion of the draft, Pittsburgh had not called a single defensive linemen name.

The current starters of the line are NT Casey Hampton (32 years old), Brett Keisel (31 years old), and Aaron Smith (33 years old).

Our back up are, Chris Hoke (33 years old), Nick Eason (29 years old), and Travis Kirschke (35 years old).

So there has to be a reson for the neglect. I think I have figured it out.

Dick LeBeau.

No one can argue the greatness of LeBeau. He is an NFL legend. He has been in the league as a player and coach for over 50 years.

He created the zone-blitz scheme, and has proved over time that he is one of the best defensive minds ever.

So, why wont he bring in any younger players?

Prior to coming to Pittsburgh, Mike Tomlin was a defensive coordinator for the Minnesota Vikings. Prior to that he was defensive backs coach in Tampa Bay.

In both systems, Tomlin used the 4-3 as his base defense. In both cases, using the "Tampa Two" secondary.

Could it be that drafting a defensive lineman that would excel in Dick LeBeau's system, not work in the system Tomlin is going to use when LeBeau decided to call it a career?

One of the smartest statements, and there have been a lot of them, from Mike Tomlin when he first became Pittsburgh's coach two years ago, was to keep LeBeau as the defensive coordinator.

And not to change the system, because the personnel was designed for the 3-4.

In Tomlin's first draft, the first two players that were selected were DE Lawrence Timmons, and DE LaMar Woodley.

Neither player played Line Backer in college, yet they were drafted to play in the 3-4 Line Backer mold.

In my opinion, Dick LeBeau should be our coach as long as he chooses. But lets be honest, how much longer can that be?

In reality, this is probably going to be LeBeau's last year in the league. But, when he goes, you can rest assured that the 3-4 defense that the Steelers run, will be changed into the 4-3.

It is Tomlin's system.

So, for the Steelers to draft defensive linemen that are not going to fit our "new" system, would be a mistake at this point. What we have right now works.

When we switch to the 4-3, and it will happen, Timmons and Woodley are going to be at the DE positions, and Farrior, Foote and Harrison will be the Linebackers.

How cool would it be to have all five of them on the field at the same time?

A young player that can play end in the 3-4 will be drafted later in the draft to be molded into a 4-3 tackle. Then one will be taken in the first two rounds next year to complete the transformation.



Admittedly, i have a great deal of respect for Tomlin as a motivator and Leader of Men. In fact he's very impressive just simply as a Human being.

But with that said,..i will freely admit that my only grievance that i have with him is as an evaluator of talent via the Draft or Free agency,..as well as with any supposed plans
on his part to attempt to transform us into Tony Dungy's Bucs or Colts defensively.

Coach Lebeau's system is simply one of the best ever devised and should not be tampered with at all in my opinion.

The math is simple,...in ten years as our D- coordinator and running his system, (1992-1996, 2004-2008) we have ranked in the top five defensively 8 of those ten seasons.(Three of those #1, two as #2, two as 3rd and one as 4th)

Hopefully,...Keith Butler will be promoted when Coach Lebeau retires and continues to keep our 3-4 scheme well intact as part of the very fabric of this organization.

[RuthlessBurgher]

Where does this guy get the idea that "this is probably going to be LeBeau's last year in the league." He may be 71 years old, but he seems like the youngest septuagenarian I have ever seen. Since he has a passion for what he is doing why would he stop now.

Also, this guy suggests Timmons as a 4-3 DE. That might have worked in college, but the guy is a Derrick Brooks clone (plus Larry Foote is not signed beyond this season).

[SteelCzar76]

Where does this guy get the idea that "this is probably going to be LeBeau's last year in the league." He may be 71 years old, but he seems like the youngest septuagenarian I have ever seen. Since he has a passion for what he is doing why would he stop now.

Also, this guy suggests Timmons as a 4-3 DE. That might have worked in college, but the guy is a Derrick Brooks clone (plus Larry Foote is not signed beyond this season).

Exactly. But i will admit the thought of the day of Coach Lebeau's retirement and what exactly Tomlin would do has indeed crossed my mind on quite a few occasions.(especially every Draft Day weekend since Tomlin was named Head Coach)

[SteelHoss]

Where does this guy get the idea that "this is probably going to be LeBeau's last year in the league." He may be 71 years old, but he seems like the youngest septuagenarian I have ever seen. Since he has a passion for what he is doing why would he stop now.

Also, this guy suggests Timmons as a 4-3 DE. That might have worked in college, but the guy is a Derrick Brooks clone (plus Larry Foote is not signed beyond this season).

Exactly. But i will admit the thought of the day of Coach Lebeau's retirement and what exactly Tomlin would do has indeed crossed my mind on quite a few occasions.(especially every Draft Day weekend since Tomlin was named Head Coach)


Your paranoia is unjustified IMO. Tomlin is no fool. If you think and believe that he is at this stage in the process you're going to be left behind. By all accounts he and LeBeau have a great working relationship. When Tomlin was hired he said he was not interested in changing the 3-4 to the Tampa 2, which reportedly has now been scrapped in
Tampa Bay under their new coach ( a good friend of Tomlin's). Additionally, Tomlin's stamp is not only on Timmons it is also on Woodley, and last year's draft class and as it will be on this years. IMO that's a beautiful thing! When LeBeau retires which I don't believe will be anytime soon, the 3-4 will still remain in place. :tt2

[feltdizz]

changing to a 4-3? Until it happens I won't entertain it. Why would we go after young scrubs if we can wait a few years and focus on other positions?

Hampton is fat but guess what? All NT's in 3-4's are fat. We are fine... isn't Eason a DL? He has been getting reps and he seems to have a future.

[SteelCzar76]

Your paranoia is unjustified IMO. Tomlin is no fool. If you think and believe that he is at this stage in the process you're going to be left behind. By all accounts he and LeBeau have a great working relationship. When Tomlin was hired he said he was not interested in changing the 3-4 to the Tampa 2, which reportedly has now been scrapped in
Tampa Bay under their new coach ( a good friend of Tomlin's). Additionally, Tomlin's stamp is not only on Timmons it is also on Woodley, and last year's draft class and as it will be on this years. IMO that's a beautiful thing! When LeBeau retires which I don't believe will be anytime soon, the 3-4 will still remain in place.


It has nothing to do with paranoia, but the simple fact that no matter how great their working relationship is as of now,..Coach lebeau will step down at some point.

Whether that is within the next 2 years or five years from now,..is not the point. That (point) being,..when this does occur,...Tomlin will be free to implement "his" vision of what our Defense should be,...and who's to say that that is a 3-4 ?

Perhaps it's not that he was so particularly fond of it (3-4) as much as he did not want to make such a drastic change so early in his tenure as Head Coach.(as well as having a great deal of respect for Coach Lebeau.)

As far as Timmons,..based upon what measurables or collegiate productivity do you make the assesment that he is or ever was a 3-4 Backer ? (especially inside)

And how does Woodley have "Tomlin's stamp" ?! He is the kind of player that we (Colbert) have selected for years for the role. (Tweener collegiate DE pass rushers with tremendous size/strength ratio as well as athleticism,... for the backer position.)

[pfelix73]

Are we going back to this BS again? I thought that was all put to rest like 2 years ago.....

The 3-4 is here to stay.

[Northern_Blitz]

This reads like a blog done by someone who has no connection to the team (i.e. not a Dale Lolley type blog).

This is 100% speculation. We didn't get younger in the trenches through the draft last year because it didn't represent value when we picked. It might have been nice to get a young stud, but realistically they wern't going to play much for 2 seasons anyway (we didn't loose anyone last year). Hopefully, they can pick up some good young talent this year and groom them to start next year (because we likely won't pay CH what he'll get on the open market).

[RuthlessBurgher]

This reads like a blog done by someone who has no connection to the team (i.e. not a Dale Lolley type blog).

This is 100% speculation. We didn't get younger in the trenches through the draft last year because it didn't represent value when we picked. It might have been nice to get a young stud, but realistically they wern't going to play much for 2 seasons anyway (we didn't loose anyone last year). Hopefully, they can pick up some good young talent this year and groom them to start next year (because we likely won't pay CH what he'll get on the open market).

You might not want to use initials when our starting nose tackle Casey Hampton and his backup Chris Hoke both share C.H. :wink:

[steelz09]

I hope we stay a 3-4 but who knows.. maybe we switch to a 4-3 as all teams are switching to 3-4, essentially going "against the grain".

anyway... regardless of our defensive front, we are seriously hurting for depth on the dline. To me, one of the most worrisome situations on this team especially in the future.

Our main problem is that our mid-round dline draftee's haven't panned out. Most of them are off the team. Colbert has struggled with our mid-late round prospects.

[stlrz d]

This reads like a blog done by someone who has no connection to the team (i.e. not a Dale Lolley type blog).

This is 100% speculation. We didn't get younger in the trenches through the draft last year because it didn't represent value when we picked. It might have been nice to get a young stud, but realistically they wern't going to play much for 2 seasons anyway (we didn't loose anyone last year). Hopefully, they can pick up some good young talent this year and groom them to start next year (because we likely won't pay CH what he'll get on the open market).

Bleacher report will allow anyone to join the site and write "news" articles.

Point 2...why all the BS about Tomlin as a talent evaluator? There is hardly any history to judge him on. There's no way he had much critical input on the first draft, which by the way, was a pretty good one. The second one got us Mendy and Sweed. Mendy looked pretty good against the Rats until the injury and Sweed hardly played. Lets see what those guys do in '09 before rushing to judgment.

Way, wayyyyyyyyyyy too premature on the "he can't evaluate talent" statements. Way too early.

[Oviedo]

I have long been one advocating that we do not rule out going back to the 4-3,but this is just another "junk" article by a nobody to fill space during the slow off season. Expect more negative slanted articles after the draft about how badly we drafted and how we didn't fill needs. It is just the garnage that goes with being the Steelers. It will be accentuated this season because we are the Super Bowl Champs.

As far as being a talent evaluator, if Tomlin's first two drafts of 2007 and 2008 are any indication he is far better than the previous coach.

[SteelCzar76]

Bleacher report will allow anyone to join the site and write "news" articles.

Point 2...why all the BS about Tomlin as a talent evaluator? There is hardly any history to judge him on. There's no way he had much critical input on the first draft, which by the way, was a pretty good one. The second one got us Mendy and Sweed. Mendy looked pretty good against the Rats until the injury and Sweed hardly played. Lets see what those guys do in '09 before rushing to judgment.

Way, wayyyyyyyyyyy too premature on the "he can't evaluate talent" statements. Way too early.

For the sake of 'building' if you will,..i pose a question. What two positions had Colbert NEVER drafted for in the first round for the entirety of his Tenure prior to Tomlin's arrival ?

[RuthlessBurgher]

Bleacher report will allow anyone to join the site and write "news" articles.

Point 2...why all the BS about Tomlin as a talent evaluator? There is hardly any history to judge him on. There's no way he had much critical input on the first draft, which by the way, was a pretty good one. The second one got us Mendy and Sweed. Mendy looked pretty good against the Rats until the injury and Sweed hardly played. Lets see what those guys do in '09 before rushing to judgment.

Way, wayyyyyyyyyyy too premature on the "he can't evaluate talent" statements. Way too early.

For the sake of 'building' if you will,..i pose a question. What two positions had Colbert NEVER drafted for in the first round for the entirety of his Tenure prior to Tomlin's arrival ?

Kicker, punter, long snapper! That's 3! I win! :lol:

[SteelCzar76]

Bleacher report will allow anyone to join the site and write "news" articles.

Point 2...why all the BS about Tomlin as a talent evaluator? There is hardly any history to judge him on. There's no way he had much critical input on the first draft, which by the way, was a pretty good one. The second one got us Mendy and Sweed. Mendy looked pretty good against the Rats until the injury and Sweed hardly played. Lets see what those guys do in '09 before rushing to judgment.

Way, wayyyyyyyyyyy too premature on the "he can't evaluate talent" statements. Way too early.

For the sake of 'building' if you will,..i pose a question. What two positions had Colbert NEVER drafted for in the first round for the entirety of his Tenure prior to Tomlin's arrival ?

Kicker, punter, long snapper! That's 3! I win! :lol:

Touche Ruthless (smartazz) :lol: Perhaps i should have been a bit more specific,...but you know exactly whom i'm speaking of,... :lol:

[stlrz d]

Bleacher report will allow anyone to join the site and write "news" articles.

Point 2...why all the BS about Tomlin as a talent evaluator? There is hardly any history to judge him on. There's no way he had much critical input on the first draft, which by the way, was a pretty good one. The second one got us Mendy and Sweed. Mendy looked pretty good against the Rats until the injury and Sweed hardly played. Lets see what those guys do in '09 before rushing to judgment.

Way, wayyyyyyyyyyy too premature on the "he can't evaluate talent" statements. Way too early.

For the sake of 'building' if you will,..i pose a question. What two positions had Colbert NEVER drafted for in the first round for the entirety of his Tenure prior to Tomlin's arrival ?

Not sure what you're getting at here or how it relates to Tomlin "not being a good evaluator of talent".

[SteelCzar76]

Bleacher report will allow anyone to join the site and write "news" articles.

Point 2...why all the BS about Tomlin as a talent evaluator? There is hardly any history to judge him on. There's no way he had much critical input on the first draft, which by the way, was a pretty good one. The second one got us Mendy and Sweed. Mendy looked pretty good against the Rats until the injury and Sweed hardly played. Lets see what those guys do in '09 before rushing to judgment.

Way, wayyyyyyyyyyy too premature on the "he can't evaluate talent" statements. Way too early.

For the sake of 'building' if you will,..i pose a question. What two positions had Colbert NEVER drafted for in the first round for the entirety of his Tenure prior to Tomlin's arrival ?

Not sure what you're getting at here or how it relates to Tomlin "not being a good evaluator of talent".



Hint: If you guessed Linebacker as in Lawrence "WTF are you doing playing for a 3-4 team" Timmons or RB as in Rashard "Tender Mendy" Mendenhall,....you sir are a winna,...

[stlrz d]

You sir, are an idiot.

Wow.

[SteelCzar76]

You sir, are an idiot.

Wow.


Because i do not share your perspective in terms of what "stud" and or exceptional player is ? No,..the only idiocy lies within such a belief on your part.

[stlrz d]

You sir, are an idiot.

Wow.


Because i do not share your perspective in terms of what "stud" and or exceptional player is ? No,..the only idiocy lies within such a belief on your part.

No, because you are one of those "if the Steelers don't draft my guy then no matter what happens, or how irrational it may be, I will always be critical of them for it".

That's why.

Mendy was looking good against the Ravens until a freak injury took him out for the season. His first season. And you're calling him soft? Timmons played very well as a nickel backer and contributed 65 tackles, 5 sacks, a forced fumble and a pick...and you're questioning his value in a 3-4? He made some big plays at some critical moments.

You didn't want these guys and now you'll find any way to take a shot at them no matter how unfounded. That's idiocy.

[WoodleyofTroy]

[quote="stlrz d":3vu52khc]You sir, are an idiot.

Wow.


Because i do not share your perspective in terms of what "stud" and or exceptional player is ? No,..the only idiocy lies within such a belief on your part.

No, because you are one of those "if the Steelers don't draft my guy then no matter what happens, or how irrational it may be, I will always be critical of them for it".

That's why.

Mendy was looking good against the Ravens until a freak injury took him out for the season. His first season. And you're calling him soft? Timmons played very well as a nickel backer and contributed 65 tackles, 5 sacks, a forced fumble and a pick...and you're questioning his value in a 3-4? He made some big plays at some critical moments.

You didn't want these guys and now you'll find any way to take a shot at them no matter how unfounded. That's idiocy.[/quote:3vu52khc]


Don't bother. If Timmons and Mendenhall played for USC, he'd be going out of his way to tell us how great they are. His only point on these message boards is to be different. Nothing more. I'd suggest passing over his posts.

[Oviedo]

You sir, are an idiot.

Wow.


Because i do not share your perspective in terms of what "stud" and or exceptional player is ? No,..the only idiocy lies within such a belief on your part.

Calling you an idiot might be strong words but you did post one of the most ridiculously unsupportable posts in awhile. Harkens back to the bad old Trib days of looking at everything as "half empty."

How anyone can find fault in Timmons is really reduces your credibility.

[SteelHoss]

You sir, are an idiot.

Wow.


Because i do not share your perspective in terms of what "stud" and or exceptional player is ? No,..the only idiocy lies within such a belief on your part.

Calling you an idiot might be strong words but you did post one of the most ridiculously unsupportable posts in awhile. Harkens back to the bad old Trib days of looking at everything as "half empty."

How anyone can find fault in Timmons is really reduces your credibility.


:Cheers :Agree

At this point me thinks its either ride the bus or get off! The 3-4 will be in the "Burgh" for as long as it is successful and we have the players to run it. As I posted earlier, Tomlin is no fool. To paraphrase one of his recent quotes...."The more I understand Steeler Nation, the more I want to win!" :tt1 :tt1 :tt1 :Clap :Clap :Clap :tt2

[feltdizz]

You sir, are an idiot.

Wow.


Because i do not share your perspective in terms of what "stud" and or exceptional player is ? No,..the only idiocy lies within such a belief on your part.

You lose credibility when you bash plays with no facts to back them up.

[AngryAsian]

How anybody can bash this team after a SuperBowl win during the most statistically toughest schedule in two decades is unfathomable. When you look at how many of our guys went down for long periods at a time and some for the season... how are somewhat "suspect" evaluator of talent coach was able to integrate various second and third string players to still get the job done... nothing short of incredible. We keep talking about individual pieces like Timmons and Mendenhall... let us try to focus on the machine as a whole. This machine has won yet another World Championship and we have our entire coaching staff in tact. Let's focus on one season at a time... "just like one game at a time"... something that Coach Tomlin preached all last season, and look at the outcome.

[TallyStiller]

I watch Florida State football almost as religiously as I do the Steelers, and I'm left wondering exactly when it was that Lawrence Timmons ever played defensive end in college. Timmons was always a 4 - 3 outside backer... NEVER a hand down on the grass rusher. At 230 and 6'1", he's too small to be a rush end even down here in the land of speed, speed and more speed on the defensive side of the ball. Ends don't have to have nearly as much sand to make it at FSU... 'Zo Jackson was a star here, fer cryin' out loud! But Timmons never was one, I can assure you.

[SteelCzar76]

No, because you are one of those "if the Steelers don't draft my guy then no matter what happens, or how irrational it may be, I will always be critical of them for it".

That's why.

Mendy was looking good against the Ravens until a freak injury took him out for the season. His first season. And you're calling him soft? Timmons played very well as a nickel backer and contributed 65 tackles, 5 sacks, a forced fumble and a pick...and you're questioning his value in a 3-4? He made some big plays at some critical moments.

You didn't want these guys and now you'll find any way to take a shot at them no matter how unfounded. That's idiocy.




Regarding the opinions and or perspective of you and your girlfriends in this thread you are entitled to as much,..as i am to my own.

Speaking of which on my part,.... it is not a matter of me being a "Pom Pom" fan to which everyone on the team or working for the organization is infallible simply because they are there.

Nor is it a matter of "if the Steelers don't draft my guy then no matter what happens, or how irrational it may be, I will always be critical of them for it". I simply call things how i see them and i think for myself. I'm apex,..never been a herd person just for the sake of blending and 'not making waves'.

If you and or anyone else consider using a top 20 draft pick for an undersized, single down, second string, special teams coverage, utitlity LB a good look,..so be it.

If you cannot see that "Mindy" runs upright and wary of contact,..then so so be it.

And if you cannot comprehend that these particular players are Tomlin's guys from head to heal as Kevin Colbert had never saw it necessary under Coach Cowher and his philosophy to Draft backers and RB's in the 1st, (As we did just fine in later rounds with Tweener DE and developmental backs),.....then so be that as well.

But you and or anyone else can feel free to miss me with the Childish pouting if and when i do speak my personal truth from my particular viewpoint. Which i,...much unlike blind homers,..consider as truthful and honest as it gets.

[stlrz d]

You're certainly entitled to your opinions...but they're wrong. That's why people are getting on you. Not because we're homers who don't want to make waves. It's because you're wrong.

[SteelCzar76]

You're certainly entitled to your opinions...but they're wrong. That's why people are getting on you. Not because we're homers who don't want to make waves. It's because you're wrong.

Again that's a matter of your perspective as determined by how YOU feel concerning the aforementioned players,.....not actual truth homie.

[WoodleyofTroy]

No, because you are one of those "if the Steelers don't draft my guy then no matter what happens, or how irrational it may be, I will always be critical of them for it".

That's why.

Mendy was looking good against the Ravens until a freak injury took him out for the season. His first season. And you're calling him soft? Timmons played very well as a nickel backer and contributed 65 tackles, 5 sacks, a forced fumble and a pick...and you're questioning his value in a 3-4? He made some big plays at some critical moments.

You didn't want these guys and now you'll find any way to take a shot at them no matter how unfounded. That's idiocy.




Regarding the opinions and or perspective of you and your girlfriends in this thread you are entitled to as much,..as i am to my own.

Speaking of which on my part,.... it is not a matter of me being a "Pom Pom" fan to which everyone on the team or working for the organization is infallible simply because they are there.

Nor is it a matter of "if the Steelers don't draft my guy then no matter what happens, or how irrational it may be, I will always be critical of them for it". I simply call things how i see them and i think for myself. I'm apex,..never been a herd person just for the sake of blending and 'not making waves'.

If you and or anyone else consider using a top 20 draft pick for an undersized, single down, second string, special teams coverage, utitlity LB a good look,..so be it.

If you cannot see that "Mindy" runs upright and wary of contact,..then so so be it.

And if you cannot comprehend that these particular players are Tomlin's guys from head to heal as Kevin Colbert had never saw it necessary under Coach Cowher and his philosophy to Draft backers and RB's in the 1st, (As we did just fine in later rounds with Tweener DE and developmental backs),.....then so be that as well.

But you and or anyone else can feel free to miss me with the Childish pouting if and when i do speak my personal truth from my particular viewpoint. Which i,...much unlike blind homers,..consider as truthful and honest as it gets.

Says the USC homer.

:Blah

[stlrz d]

You're certainly entitled to your opinions...but they're wrong. That's why people are getting on you. Not because we're homers who don't want to make waves. It's because you're wrong.

Again that's a matter of your perspective as determined by how YOU feel concerning the aforementioned players,.....not actual truth homie.

It seems to be the perspective of everyone here but you. Timmons, playing in a part time role, managed more tackles and sacks than some full time players in the league...and you question his value. You have zero credibility.

[SteelCzar76]

[quote="stlrz d":2xiq01kq]You're certainly entitled to your opinions...but they're wrong. That's why people are getting on you. Not because we're homers who don't want to make waves. It's because you're wrong.

Again that's a matter of your perspective as determined by how YOU feel concerning the aforementioned players,.....not actual truth homie.

It seems to be the perspective of everyone here but you. Timmons, playing in a part time role, managed more tackles and sacks than some full time players in the league...and you question his value. You have zero credibility.[/quote:2xiq01kq]

And Just how many starters would that be in all,... and how many of them are 1st round Draft selections ? And more importantly as i mentioned before,.... do you consider such a "part time role" to be worthy of a player taken within the top 20 picks ?

My argument is not against him (Timmons) being of "some" value. It's a matter as to what degree that said value is. You and a few kids ( not everyone) say greatness and future all pro,.... I say career overacheiver and or career role player.

[Oviedo]

I watch Florida State football almost as religiously as I do the Steelers, and I'm left wondering exactly when it was that Lawrence Timmons ever played defensive end in college. Timmons was always a 4 - 3 outside backer... NEVER a hand down on the grass rusher. At 230 and 6'1", he's too small to be a rush end even down here in the land of speed, speed and more speed on the defensive side of the ball. Ends don't have to have nearly as much sand to make it at FSU... 'Zo Jackson was a star here, fer cryin' out loud! But Timmons never was one, I can assure you.

You are correct. Living in Florida I watch a lot of FSU football (usually rooting for the other guys--sorry) and Timmons was NEVER a DE. He has always been a pure LB and was never a DE to convert to OLB in the Steelers typical fashion.

When n drafted Tomlin said he had Derrick Brooks-like abilities and that is best assessment you can still find. Timmons is about speed, pursuit and pass coverage just like Brooks. He was brought in to have a LB who could shut down the top TEs we face during the season not to rush the QB.

[SteelCzar76]

I watch Florida State football almost as religiously as I do the Steelers, and I'm left wondering exactly when it was that Lawrence Timmons ever played defensive end in college. Timmons was always a 4 - 3 outside backer... NEVER a hand down on the grass rusher. At 230 and 6'1", he's too small to be a rush end even down here in the land of speed, speed and more speed on the defensive side of the ball. Ends don't have to have nearly as much sand to make it at FSU... 'Zo Jackson was a star here, fer cryin' out loud! But Timmons never was one, I can assure you.

You are correct. Living in Florida I watch a lot of FSU football (usually rooting for the other guys--sorry) and Timmons was NEVER a DE. He has always been a pure LB and was never a DE to convert to OLB in the Steelers typical fashion.

When n drafted Tomlin said he had Derrick Brooks-like abilities and that is best assessment you can still find. Timmons is about speed, pursuit and pass coverage just like Brooks. He was brought in to have a LB who could shut down the top TEs we face during the season not to rush the QB.


Nor was he to be designated to fill against the run from the inside backer position,.....well said sir. But it appears that when i mention these things ( him being and undersized pursuit backer) here and elsewhere,.some act as if i have just told them that their religious beliefs are mythology ? :lol:

[aggiebones]

prattling on like old women.

Lebeau could be here a few more years, noone here has ANY idea when he will decide. He's in better shape than most of the 40 something fat asses on this forum. Which doesn't include me cause I'm 39 :)

Everyone says Tomlin is this force to change to HIS Tampa system. He was a young coach there and he learned that system. Do you think he's not currently learning as much as he can from Lebeau? The guy is a hard worker. He's not turning a blind eye to things there.

Maybe he keeps it, maybe he doesn't. Who knows, but to claim Timmons and Woodley are moving to DE for sure in a year is ridiculous. You can't clap your hands and change the team from a 3-4 to a 4-3 in a year or even 2. So they need to replace a few DL in the next couple seasons. We will, but no sense in kicking out a productive guy before its time. I think Tomlin will stick to the 3-4 even after Lebeau leaves. Because he seems to be smart. What he needs now is to bring in a smart young DB coach to learn from Lebeau for the next season and then replace him when the time comes.

If he does decide to switch from 3-4 to 4-3 hold onto your hats. Cause there will be a big swing of talent changing on the defense. And it will take several years. And it would be happening during Roethlisberger's prime, which would waste a few of his top years. Another big reason I doubt it happens.

[SteelCzar76]

prattling on like old women.

Lebeau could be here a few more years, noone here has ANY idea when he will decide. He's in better shape than most of the 40 something fat asses on this forum. Which doesn't include me cause I'm 39 :)

Everyone says Tomlin is this force to change to HIS Tampa system. He was a young coach there and he learned that system. Do you think he's not currently learning as much as he can from Lebeau? The guy is a hard worker. He's not turning a blind eye to things there.

Maybe he keeps it, maybe he doesn't. Who knows, but to claim Timmons and Woodley are moving to DE for sure in a year is ridiculous. You can't clap your hands and change the team from a 3-4 to a 4-3 in a year or even 2. So they need to replace a few DL in the next couple seasons. We will, but no sense in kicking out a productive guy before its time. I think Tomlin will stick to the 3-4 even after Lebeau leaves. Because he seems to be smart. What he needs now is to bring in a smart young DB coach to learn from Lebeau for the next season and then replace him when the time comes.

If he does decide to switch from 3-4 to 4-3 hold onto your hats. Cause there will be a big swing of talent changing on the defense. And it will take several years. And it would be happening during Roethlisberger's prime, which would waste a few of his top years. Another big reason I doubt it happens.


Prattling like old women ? Whoa there Tex,...i'm younger than you and willing to wager a considerable amount that i'm in better physical condition. :lol:

But on another note this is a public 'forum',.,, and as such people have debates and or discussions. In regards to your perspective of things,.. i actually agree with it being the most likely scenario. (As Tomlin does not strike me as impulsive or irrational)

But what i think we were discussing in this thread were hypothetical 'scenarios' in terms of possible change. (Along with other things) :stirpot lol

[aggiebones]

Yea, the tone of my response was mostly in jest, but came off weird.
Alas, my point is certain people get worked up about the future of the defense. But your point about Tomlin not being an impulsive person is right on.
Maybe he will change to the 4-3 if he thinks it will be better. Any decision he makes may be wrong or right, who knows now. But I think the perception from many is that he has already decided and is wringing his hands like Death waiting for Lebeau to retire. I don't think that's reality.
And I'm not in bad shape for 39, except I broke my leg this year and caught Lyme disease at the same time and its been a struggle to get back to general health. I barely survived a 1 hr softball game on Monday. Zoikes, lots of work ahead. I gotta hurry before I hit 40 in June.

[Slapstick]

Mendenhall was the only guy who kept Illinois in the Rose Bowl against USC until the Illini WR fumbled the ball into the end zone...

[SteelCzar76]

Yea, the tone of my response was mostly in jest, but came off weird.
Alas, my point is certain people get worked up about the future of the defense. But your point about Tomlin not being an impulsive person is right on.
Maybe he will change to the 4-3 if he thinks it will be better. Any decision he makes may be wrong or right, who knows now. But I think the perception from many is that he has already decided and is wringing his hands like Death waiting for Lebeau to retire. I don't think that's reality.
And I'm not in bad shape for 39, except I broke my leg this year and caught Lyme disease at the same time and its been a struggle to get back to general health. I barely survived a 1 hr softball game on Monday. Zoikes, lots of work ahead. I gotta hurry before I hit 40 in June.



Sorry to hear about your adversity man. But keep working hard brother and you'll overcome it. (No such thing as problems, only solutions right ?)

I also agree with you that Tomlin isn't plotting with the Stove pipe hat and gag sized mustache. :lol: Maybe just the thought of such a change (4-3) and the ramifications is enough to warrant some concern and or discussion. Especially on the part of individuals whom the best of times for the team came during from the beginning of Coach Cowher's tenure to the current day. (As we previously struggled with pride through the 80's and were too young or not even born yet to really enjoy any of the Dynasty era units)

[RuthlessBurgher]

Yea, the tone of my response was mostly in jest, but came off weird.
Alas, my point is certain people get worked up about the future of the defense. But your point about Tomlin not being an impulsive person is right on.
Maybe he will change to the 4-3 if he thinks it will be better. Any decision he makes may be wrong or right, who knows now. But I think the perception from many is that he has already decided and is wringing his hands like Death waiting for Lebeau to retire. I don't think that's reality.
And I'm not in bad shape for 39, except I broke my leg this year and caught Lyme disease at the same time and its been a struggle to get back to general health. I barely survived a 1 hr softball game on Monday. Zoikes, lots of work ahead. I gotta hurry before I hit 40 in June.



Sorry to hear about your adversity man. But keep working hard brother and you'll overcome it. (No such thing as problems, only solutions right ?)

I also agree with you that Tomlin isn't plotting with the Stove pipe hat and gag sized mustache. :lol: Maybe just the thought of such a change (4-3) and the ramifications is enough to warrant some concern and or discussion. Especially on the part of individuals whom the best of times for the team came during from the beginning of Coach Cowher's tenure to the current day. (As we previously struggled with pride through the 80's and were too young or not even born yet to really enjoy any of the Dynasty era units)

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_Jj--y7nzkjo/RrNnqTXttHI/AAAAAAAABM4/i8uHsXgiMdY/s400/whip.jpghttp://images.dailyradar.com/media/uploads/ballhype/story_large/2009/01/27/mike_tomlin.jpg :lol:

[papillon]

[quote="stlrz d":2dvwx4ts]You're certainly entitled to your opinions...but they're wrong. That's why people are getting on you. Not because we're homers who don't want to make waves. It's because you're wrong.

Again that's a matter of your perspective as determined by how YOU feel concerning the aforementioned players,.....not actual truth homie.

It seems to be the perspective of everyone here but you. Timmons, playing in a part time role, managed more tackles and sacks than some full time players in the league...and you question his value. You have zero credibility.

And Just how many starters would that be in all,... and how many of them are 1st round Draft selections ? And more importantly as i mentioned before,.... do you consider such a "part time role" to be worthy of a player taken within the top 20 picks ?

My argument is not against him (Timmons) being of "some" value. It's a matter as to what degree that said value is. You and a few kids ( not everyone) say greatness and future all pro,.... I say career overacheiver and or career role player.[/quote:2dvwx4ts]

I probably shouldn't jump into the middle of this debate, but I'm going to anyhow. The Steelers are rarely in a position where the first round draft choice has to make a splash as a rookie. Polamalu didn't, Miller didn't, Hampton didn't, Burress didn't, Ben wouldn't have except for the injury to Maddox, etc. and, that being said, Timmons is progressing exactly the way many Steeler players progress. They sit behind a veteran and learn, they get some special team action and limited game time action and work out hard during the off season. When they get their opportunity they are prepared to play.

Timmons made some big plays for the Steelers last year in his limited role. If he doesn't see the field much this year then maybe he was a wasted pick; but, he certainly showed that he's capable of making big plays and his closing speed is off the charts. He needs to get stronger at the POA in the running game. He knows that, Lebeau knows that and from what I've heard he's working on getting his strength increased. Nothing to dislike about Timmons at this point in his career.

Pappy

[grotonsteel]

[quote="stlrz d":30jbcbzj]You're certainly entitled to your opinions...but they're wrong. That's why people are getting on you. Not because we're homers who don't want to make waves. It's because you're wrong.

Again that's a matter of your perspective as determined by how YOU feel concerning the aforementioned players,.....not actual truth homie.

It seems to be the perspective of everyone here but you. Timmons, playing in a part time role, managed more tackles and sacks than some full time players in the league...and you question his value. You have zero credibility.

And Just how many starters would that be in all,... and how many of them are 1st round Draft selections ? And more importantly as i mentioned before,.... do you consider such a "part time role" to be worthy of a player taken within the top 20 picks ?

My argument is not against him (Timmons) being of "some" value. It's a matter as to what degree that said value is. You and a few kids ( not everyone) say greatness and future all pro,.... I say career overacheiver and or career role player.

I probably shouldn't jump into the middle of this debate, but I'm going to anyhow. The Steelers are rarely in a position where the first round draft choice has to make a splash as a rookie. Polamalu didn't, Miller didn't, Hampton didn't, Burress didn't, Ben wouldn't have except for the injury to Maddox, etc. and, that being said, Timmons is progressing exactly the way many Steeler players progress. They sit behind a veteran and learn, they get some special team action and limited game time action and work out hard during the off season. When they get their opportunity they are prepared to play.

Timmons made some big plays for the Steelers last year in his limited role. If he doesn't see the field much this year then maybe he was a wasted pick; but, he certainly showed that he's capable of making big plays and his closing speed is off the charts. He needs to get stronger at the POA in the running game. He knows that, Lebeau knows that and from what I've heard he's working on getting his strength increased. Nothing to dislike about Timmons at this point in his career.

Pappy[/quote:30jbcbzj]


:Agree