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pfelix73
04-07-2009, 10:27 PM
OK- Just for fun, I'd like to hear from everyone their comments/ ideas on the following scenario:

To mix things up a bit, these 5 players are available to us with the 32nd pick. A few of them have slid down the board for various unknown reasons.

Of the 5, who do you pick and why? :tt1

1. Alex Mack C
2. Alphonso Smith CB
3. Darrius Heyward-Bey WR
4. Eben Britton OT
5. Peria Jerry DE

stlrz d
04-07-2009, 11:00 PM
Yes to Mack.

Absolutely NO to DHB.

fordfixer
04-07-2009, 11:09 PM
6. Me, Because I need the money :lol:

Jom112
04-07-2009, 11:23 PM
I would say Mack or Britton would be your best options. Mack slightly ahead of Britton because of Max Starks improved play last season.

DHB I don't really see on your team. Plus he'll take a couple of seasons to get polished.

Alphonso Smith is a good option but I think O-Line is more of a need. Plus with your system, you don't need an elite CB.

Peria Jerry I don't like for you guys at all. Too small to play NT and not tall enough to play DE...

RuthlessBurgher
04-08-2009, 12:39 AM
It would be a tough call between Mack and Britton, but I think I would lean toward the #1 center over the #5 or 6 OT. Although Britton could be good, and good tackles are very hard to find, and neither of our starting tackles are signed beyond this season (then again, neither is Hartwig), I worry a bit about Britton's short arms. I think Mack is more of a sure thing.

The third choice among those you provided is Alphonso Smith (although I like the complete package that Darius Butler seems to offer a little bit more personally). Smith is a playmaker in the secondary and could be an asset (the only negative for him seems to be his height).

Hayward-Bey is a heck of an athlete, but how good of an NFL WR will he be? He's a speed guy who would fill the Nate role well, but I want more than that with a first round pick. I think I like Sweed more in terms of his chances of ultimately being a top-notch NFL WR, frankly.

Lastly, Jerry should be a good DT in this league, but it will be in a 4-3. He is not built for the LeBeau scheme that we run.

AngryAsian
04-08-2009, 07:47 AM
6. Me, Because I need the money :lol:


FF, I had you in my first mock... but alas, Ruthless is on my final mock for 1.32, because we need to draft BIG and UGLY!!! :lol: :lol: :lol:

Ozey74
04-08-2009, 08:02 AM
I'd like to see Jerry out of this group. One day real soon (hopefully not until next offseason), were going to wake up & wonder how our D-LINE got so old all of a sudden.

:tt2

calmkiller
04-08-2009, 08:17 AM
Mack

Oviedo
04-08-2009, 08:23 AM
With editorial license:

1. Alex Mack C
2. Ron Brace, DT
3. Max Unger, OL
4. Eben Britton OT
5. Darrius Heyward-Bey WR
6. Peria Jerry DE
7. Someone else
8. Alphonso Smith CB

JUST-PLAIN-NASTY
04-08-2009, 09:11 AM
Mack...And then Mack...And if he isn't there then Mack!
Unfortunately I don't think he is there. I'm hoping...But only time will tell.

Oviedo
04-08-2009, 09:19 AM
Mack...And then Mack...And if he isn't there then Mack!
Unfortunately I don't think he is there. I'm hoping...But only time will tell.

IMO Mack won't be there so we need to seriously think about other options. In my book that means Brace, Unger, or Wood.

SteelCzar76
04-08-2009, 09:35 AM
OK- Just for fun, I'd like to hear from everyone their comments/ ideas on the following scenario:

To mix things up a bit, these 5 players are available to us with the 32nd pick. A few of them have slid down the board for various unknown reasons.

Of the 5, who do you pick and why? :tt1

1. Alex Mack C
2. Alphonso Smith CB
3. Darrius Heyward-Bey WR
4. Eben Britton OT
5. Peria Jerry DE

1:No to Mack in the first. (Eric Wood is better and Shipley will likely be just as effective at league level)

2:Alphonso Smith: I could live with it,...but i'd prefer to trade down.

3 DHB: I'd rather trade down. Although he's fast,..there is a lot more that goes into playing the position.(Refer to Nate "Hot Hands" Washington) He's not in the same class as Crabtree, Harvin, Maclin, Nicks, Robiskie and possibly even Britt.

4: Eben Britton: Hell no,....it would be a HUGE reach. Trade down.

5: Peria Jerry: Again,...trade down,... he's not a five technique end. Moala or Potter would be far more effective in our system.

JUST-PLAIN-NASTY
04-08-2009, 09:41 AM
Mack...And then Mack...And if he isn't there then Mack!
Unfortunately I don't think he is there. I'm hoping...But only time will tell.

IMO Mack won't be there so we need to seriously think about other options. In my book that means Brace, Unger, or Wood.

I'm with you on Mack. I would love having him but I think he will be gone. I like Brace, Unger, or Wood (See my mock.) but I think all grade out behind Gilbert. I'm hoping we could get Wood in the 2nd. I'm thinking Brace & Unger will be off the board in the first 12 picks of round 2. I'm hoping some other OL push Wood to us. A name to watch is TJ Lang. I had him in my mocks before but he is rising. A Steeler type of guy who played all OL positions. Might be the C of the future for the Steelers if Wood is gone. Might have to take him in the 3rd now. The two guys I don't want on the OL in the first three rounds are Johnson G out of LSU & Caldwell C out of Bama. Really bad feet on both of them and soft. Coaching and work ethic could improve those problems but risky in my opinion.

Oviedo
04-08-2009, 09:42 AM
OK- Just for fun, I'd like to hear from everyone their comments/ ideas on the following scenario:

To mix things up a bit, these 5 players are available to us with the 32nd pick. A few of them have slid down the board for various unknown reasons.

Of the 5, who do you pick and why? :tt1

1. Alex Mack C
2. Alphonso Smith CB
3. Darrius Heyward-Bey WR
4. Eben Britton OT
5. Peria Jerry DE

1:No to Mack in the first. (Eric Wood is better and Shipley will likely be just as effective at league level)

2:Alphonso Smith: I could live with it,...but i'd prefer to trade down.

3 DHB: I'd rather trade down. Although he's fast,..there is a lot more that goes into playing the position.(Refer to Nate "Hot Hands" Washington) He's not in the same class as Crabtree, Harvin, Maclin, Nicks, Robiskie and possibly even Britt.

4: Eben Britton: Hell no,....it would be a HUGE reach. Trade down.

5: Peria Jerry: Again,...trade down,... he's not a five technique end. Moala or Potter would be far more effective in our system.


I agree that trading down 5-10 picks would allow us to get players in the same positions we need who are just as good as those there at 1.32. Trading down is hard but this year since we have no glaring needs and we pick so late we won't get elite players is the right answer. With extra picks we could move up in Rounds 2 and 3.

RuthlessBurgher
04-08-2009, 09:44 AM
6. Me, Because I need the money :lol:


FF, I had you in my first mock... but alas, Ruthless is on my final mock for 1.32, because we need to draft BIG and UGLY!!! :lol: :lol: :lol:

Well, Timmons is listed at 6' 1" 234 lbs., which is essentially the same size as me right now (except I am more ripped and he is more flabby...or maybe it is vice versa...I forget). My wife made some really good peanut butter cookies last night, so I am working my way to a bigger waistline via the Casey Hampton diet (since there is more of a need for d-linemen than linebackers right now). Beefcake...BEEFCAKE!!! :lol:

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41hsm%2BVbbXL._SL500_AA280_.jpg

And as for the ugly part...I may not have a face for TV...and I even scare radio producers away...that is why I dispense my vast knowledge of Steeler football via a computer message board where people only need to look at me during bye week photoshop contests! :wink:

JUST-PLAIN-NASTY
04-08-2009, 09:46 AM
OK- Just for fun, I'd like to hear from everyone their comments/ ideas on the following scenario:

To mix things up a bit, these 5 players are available to us with the 32nd pick. A few of them have slid down the board for various unknown reasons.

Of the 5, who do you pick and why? :tt1

1. Alex Mack C
2. Alphonso Smith CB
3. Darrius Heyward-Bey WR
4. Eben Britton OT
5. Peria Jerry DE

1:No to Mack in the first. (Eric Wood is better and Shipley will likely be just as effective at league level)

2:Alphonso Smith: I could live with it,...but i'd prefer to trade down.

3 DHB: I'd rather trade down. Although he's fast,..there is a lot more that goes into playing the position.(Refer to Nate "Hot Hands" Washington) He's not in the same class as Crabtree, Harvin, Maclin, Nicks, Robiskie and possibly even Britt.

4: Eben Britton: Hell no,....it would be a HUGE reach. Trade down.

5: Peria Jerry: Again,...trade down,... he's not a five technique end. Moala or Potter would be far more effective in our system.


I agree that trading down 5-10 picks would allow us to get players in the same positions we need who are just as good as those there at 1.32. Trading down is hard but this year since we have no glaring needs and we pick so late we won't get elite players is the right answer. With extra picks we could move up in Rounds 2 and 3.

Trading down is tough but keep your fingers crossed. Hope Freeman drops to #32 and teams like DET, KC, DEN, SEA, etc. don't take a QB in round 1. Might have a partner then. I think Freeman goes before us but who knows how things will shake out.

pfelix73
04-08-2009, 09:47 AM
OK- I'll release more info. in this scenario from my previous thread- considering 2 of these following 3 names were discussed on some posts.

Darius Butler, Jerron Gilbert, and Ron Brace were already chosen ahead of us, so those 3 are gone. Thus for the reason why a few of these guys have fallen down the board.

IF these 5 were available, I'd have a tough decision to make between 4 of them. I agree that Jerry is not a good fit for us, but I put him in the mix just because I wanted to see what people thought of him. Plus, at 32 he's good value. IMO.

From what I'm reading/ hearing in the local press it seems as though we will draft a Center. But the general thinking is it will be in rounds 2-4. Someone like a Wood or Shipley. Is Mack that much better than Wood or Shipley to warrant a pick in the 1st round? I'm not so sure.

As far as my choice, it would not be Jerry, so I have it narrowed down to those 4. I guess I'm still on the clock.......

Britton is intriguing because of the situation with Starks and Colon not having any long-term deals.....

:tt1

RuthlessBurgher
04-08-2009, 09:53 AM
If you don't take Mack in round one, you aren't getting Unger or Wood in round two. Wood won't make it past a number of teams that could look for a center in the second round (like Cincy, Cleveland, Minnesota, Arizona, etc.). So now you are look at the difference between Mack and Luigs, Caldwell, or Shipley. I would rather use our first pick to solidify the center position for the next decade with the best player at that position in the draft than waiting and ending up with the 4th, 5th, or 6th best prospect at that position.

pfelix73
04-08-2009, 10:03 AM
But is Mack so much better than Shipley to warrant the 1st round pick when you can get a great Center in round 3.

We have 2 3rd rounders right? What would it take to trade back up with a 3rd and 2nd round to come up far enough to get Wood?

Then again, is Wood that much better than Shipley to justify that?

I keep coming back to Shipley.....

pfelix73
04-08-2009, 10:04 AM
So for that matter, I have it narrowed down to Smith, Britton, and the WR.

The WR is intriguing too......

pfelix73
04-08-2009, 10:06 AM
But then on the other hand----

Can you let Mack slip down the board?

Decisions.

SteelCzar76
04-08-2009, 10:06 AM
If you don't take Mack in round one, you aren't getting Unger or Wood in round two. Wood won't make it past a number of teams that could look for a center in the second round (like Cincy, Cleveland, Minnesota, Arizona, etc.). So now you are look at the difference between Mack and Luigs, Caldwell, or Shipley. I would rather use our first pick to solidify the center position for the next decade with the best player at that position in the draft than waiting and ending up with the 4th, 5th, or 6th best prospect at that position.


I understand your logic here Ruthless,...but what if Mack turns out not to be the guy that some of the Steelernation believe him to be ? I know that he's the "sexy" pick at center,...but from what i've seen of him,..Mayock is correct,....he's on the ground quite often and looks pretty sloppy. And when you watch Eric Wood and Shipley,...they actually consistently played up to the level of "beasthood" that everyone has annointed Mack with.

pfelix73
04-08-2009, 10:27 AM
I agree. I'm not convinced that Mack is that much better than Wood or Shipley.

Ruthless, what if we were picking 20th? Would you still pick Mack? Because then you aren't going BPA at that point... Out of these 5 I have listed is Mack BPA?

Oviedo
04-08-2009, 10:34 AM
I agree. I'm not convinced that Mack is that much better than Wood or Shipley.

Ruthless, what if we were picking 20th? Would you still pick Mack? Because then you aren't going BPA at that point... Out of these 5 I have listed is Mack BPA?

Add me to that group of thinkers who don't think that Mack is so significantly better than Wood, Unger or Shipley that he is a lock at 1.32. Best value may be Shipley in Round 4 or trading back into Round 2 and getting Wood.

SteelerNation1
04-08-2009, 10:36 AM
6. Me, Because I need the money :lol:


FF, I had you in my first mock... but alas, Ruthless is on my final mock for 1.32, because we need to draft BIG and UGLY!!! :lol: :lol: :lol:

Well, Timmons is listed at 6' 1" 234 lbs., which is essentially the same size as me right now (except I am more ripped and he is more flabby...or maybe it is vice versa...I forget). My wife made some really good peanut butter cookies last night, so I am working my way to a bigger waistline via the Casey Hampton diet (since there is more of a need for d-linemen than linebackers right now). Beefcake...BEEFCAKE!!! :lol:

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41hsm%2BVbbXL._SL500_AA280_.jpg

And as for the ugly part...I may not have a face for TV...and I even scare radio producers away...that is why I dispense my vast knowledge of Steeler football via a computer message board where people only need to look at me during bye week photoshop contests! :wink:
And even that is TOO much! :D :D :D
Now, let me redirect to my two new baby beauties... :tt2 :tt2 :tt2 :tt2
http://www.planetsteelers.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=6051

RuthlessBurgher
04-08-2009, 11:04 AM
But is Mack so much better than Shipley to warrant the 1st round pick when you can get a great Center in round 3.

We have 2 3rd rounders right? What would it take to trade back up with a 3rd and 2nd round to come up far enough to get Wood?

Then again, is Wood that much better than Shipley to justify that?

I keep coming back to Shipley.....

We only have one third round pick (we have 2 picks in rounds 5 and 7).

Shipley's arms are 29 3/4" long and his hands are 8 1/2" inches long. Those are by far the shortest of any o-line prospect in the draft. Short arms are great for the bench press (Shipley was able to do 33 reps of 225 lbs.) but are not ideal when your job entails trying to keep a mammoth DT from being able to get into your body (Mack, on the other hand, has 33" arms and 10 3/4" hands).

RuthlessBurgher
04-08-2009, 11:07 AM
I agree. I'm not convinced that Mack is that much better than Wood or Shipley.

Ruthless, what if we were picking 20th? Would you still pick Mack? Because then you aren't going BPA at that point... Out of these 5 I have listed is Mack BPA?

If we were picking 20th, I would be doing whatever I could to trade up for Michael Oher, who I think is significantly better than Britton or Beatty at this point.

I think Mack is BPA among the 5 you listed, but Britton is a close second because of how vital the OT position is (but I think that Mack is more of a sure-thing as a prospect than Britton)

RuthlessBurgher
04-08-2009, 11:12 AM
If you don't take Mack in round one, you aren't getting Unger or Wood in round two. Wood won't make it past a number of teams that could look for a center in the second round (like Cincy, Cleveland, Minnesota, Arizona, etc.). So now you are look at the difference between Mack and Luigs, Caldwell, or Shipley. I would rather use our first pick to solidify the center position for the next decade with the best player at that position in the draft than waiting and ending up with the 4th, 5th, or 6th best prospect at that position.


I understand your logic here Ruthless,...but what if Mack turns out not to be the guy that some of the Steelernation believe him to be ? I know that he's the "sexy" pick at center,...but from what i've seen of him,..Mayock is correct,....he's on the ground quite often and looks pretty sloppy. And when you watch Eric Wood and Shipley,...they actually consistently played up to the level of "beasthood" that everyone has annointed Mack with.

The question about Mack being on the ground is why is he on the ground? Did a DT knock Mack on his back on the way to the QB, or is Mack finishing a pancake block by making sure his guy stays down? I think he is just a play to the whistle kind of guy with a bit of a nasty that has no problem pinning his guy and getting his jersey dirty play in and play out. In some cases, it might be better for him to not end up on the ground along with the guy he is blocking (because then you eliminate the possibility of another block on the second level, but that can be improved with coaching).

pfelix73
04-08-2009, 12:12 PM
I disagree with you about the short arms theory. I'd rather have my C and G's with short arms... shorter in height too. If that is all that we can find in the difference between those 2 Centers then I don't know if Mack is worthy then.

Of the 2 programs, I'd go with Penn State's, even though I'm not a big fan of Paterno.

Out of the 5 listed, the WR is the highest on my board. Some people have him going into the top 10..... to the Raiders maybe.

MaxAMillion
04-08-2009, 12:33 PM
Britton and it is not close. Teams spend first round picks on tackles.
They rarely spend first round picks on centers. Centers can be found and developed later in the draft. A lot of people have gone overboard with drafting a center in round 1. Luigs or Caldwell in round 3 would be better value.

Britton would be able to replace either Starks or Colon in his second year. That would free up money and quite possibly provide an upgrade over what the Steelers have right now. I doubt the Eagles let Britton go, because their Tackle situation is pretty weak right now.

SteelCzar76
04-08-2009, 12:34 PM
I disagree with you about the short arms theory. I'd rather have my C and G's with short arms... shorter in height too. If that is all that we can find in the difference between those 2 Centers then I don't know if Mack is worthy then.

Of the 2 programs, I'd go with Penn State's, even though I'm not a big fan of Paterno.

Out of the 5 listed, the WR is the highest on my board. Some people have him going into the top 10..... to the Raiders maybe.

As far as DHB,...at one point i even had the Raiders taking him as well. Because i thought Al Davis would be just that foolish because of his speed and measurables. But then i thought,....nah,..not even Al could fit those Clown Shoes. LOL

But back to the Shipley/Mack debate,...i agree with you in terms of strength of program. Not because of my particular disdain for Cal,...but IMO,..even if the Big Ten isn't necessarily fast or talented,...it is a very physical conference. (especially in the trenches)

And as far as his (Shipley) measurables,..i do believe that he is the same height as Iron Mike (Webster) and as mentioned,...i do not think the difference in arm length with Mack is enough to give the latter such a great edge in terms of a final grade. (Especially when you take into account Shipley's productivity, and considerable strength and intelligence.)

RuthlessBurgher
04-08-2009, 12:45 PM
Out of the 5 listed, the WR is the highest on my board. Some people have him going into the top 10..... to the Raiders maybe.

I projected DHB to be a top 10 pick to the Raiders in the 2 round mock I posted today (http://www.planetsteelers.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=5581&start=15). However, that is only because all that Al Davis cares about is 40 time (not because I think that DHB is deserving to be a top 10 pick). Heyward-Bey ran a 4.30 40, the fastest time at the combine. The fact that the guy is a good-sized WR (6' 1 5/8" and 210 lbs.) who ran the fastest time will be too much for the old man to take, even if I don't think that he will be that great of a WR on this level (maybe a more athletic version of Nate Washington).

pfelix73
04-08-2009, 12:50 PM
As far as the Eagles go, we'll see. They need a RB and a TE. And they can get tremendous value in the 1st round with a Moreno or Wells and Pettigrew. Thus enabling a T such as Britton to fall down. Then again, you never know.

RuthlessBurgher
04-08-2009, 02:02 PM
As far as the Eagles go, we'll see. They need a RB and a TE. And they can get tremendous value in the 1st round with a Moreno or Wells and Pettigrew. Thus enabling a T such as Britton to fall down. Then again, you never know.

Philly could go with a RB and a TE, but Andy Reid always seems to want to use his top picks in the trenches. Since they let go of their long-time tackles William "Tra" Thomas and Jon Runyan, adding Shawn Andrews' brother Stacy from the Bengals (who was injured last year), I think that they could go with an OT like Britton (if a team like San Diego doesn't grab him first...because they could use an upgrade at RT).

pfelix73
04-08-2009, 07:37 PM
OK-

So I took all day to decide. Something an NFL team won't have the luxury to do come draft time.

I've concluded that out of the 5 I have listed here, that the pick should be the tackle. Simply the BPA.

Eben Britton out of Arizona would be the one I'd select simply because of the situation with our starting Tackles not being signed after the 2009 season.

Realistically, Britton will be long gone by the time the Steelers pick, so will my second choice in Alphonso Smith be available?

fordfixer
04-08-2009, 11:47 PM
6. Me, Because I need the money :lol:


FF, I had you in my first mock... but alas, Ruthless is on my final mock for 1.32, because we need to draft BIG and UGLY!!! :lol: :lol: :lol:

So that's how you're going to be :HeadBanger :lol: :lol: