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View Full Version : Two Day Trip To The 'Burgh For Mack



Flasteel
04-05-2009, 03:39 AM
http://profootball.scout.com/a.z?s=127& ... 1572&fhn=1 (http://profootball.scout.com/a.z?s=127&p=9&c=2&cid=853438&nid=3701572&fhn=1)

I just get the feeling that our line would be instantly better with this guy starting as a rookie. He seems to be cerebral enough to pick up the calls and recognize defenses, plus his physical talent blows Hartwig out of the water.

I think Mack is the best pick we could make in this draft regardless of where we were selecting. I would trade up a couple of spots to get him if he comes within striking distance.

Oviedo
04-05-2009, 09:43 AM
Got to wonder with such a public display of affection for Mack whther this is one of Colbert's smokescreen to try to force someone to grab Mack before 1.32 because he really wants someone else like Unger or Wood.

I think we actually draft a low percentage of players who actually visit. Does anyone have any data?

Mister Pittsburgh
04-05-2009, 09:45 AM
Hopefully if we drafted him and he was an upgrade over Hartwig, Stapleton, or Kemo, they would start him. Would be a good pick if he did turn out a stud and could replace Hartwig after this season.

I think I would like it more if we could find a bonifide OT where we could move Colon inside to G. I think Colon would make a really good OG, maybe our best OG....not so much at OT. By drafting OT that could go year one at RT we would make our OL better at two positions.

stlrz d
04-05-2009, 10:13 AM
Hopefully if we drafted him and he was an upgrade over Hartwig, Stapleton, or Kemo, they would start him. Would be a good pick if he did turn out a stud and could replace Hartwig after this season.

I think I would like it more if we could find a bonifide OT where we could move Colon inside to G. I think Colon would make a really good OG, maybe our best OG....not so much at OT. By drafting OT that could go year one at RT we would make our OL better at two positions.

Someone with, imo, outstanding credibility strongly disagrees with you and anyone who thinks Colon is a guard, or who thinks Colon could be a guard.

http://www.behindthesteelcurtain.com/20 ... rs-analyst (http://www.behindthesteelcurtain.com/2009/4/2/817159/btsc-chats-with-steelers-analyst)


BTSC: We've heard many say that Colon is really a guard playing tackle. What is your take on that?

WOLFLEY: Colon is not a guard, he just looks like he should be one. He doesn't have the tools to play guard in this league.

He didn't play guard at Hofstra. He's not a guard. Can we put this one to rest finally?

mshifko
04-05-2009, 10:29 AM
Got to wonder with such a public display of affection for Mack whther this is one of Colbert's smokescreen to try to force someone to grab Mack before 1.32 because he really wants someone else like Unger or Wood.

I think we actually draft a low percentage of players who actually visit. Does anyone have any data?

i am almost pretty positive the last guy we drafted in the first round that paid a visit to us was heath miller...i don't even think timmons visited...and i'm pretty sure that mendenhall didn't visit with us either...

Chavezz
04-05-2009, 10:46 AM
Got to wonder with such a public display of affection for Mack whther this is one of Colbert's smokescreen to try to force someone to grab Mack before 1.32 because he really wants someone else like Unger or Wood.

I think we actually draft a low percentage of players who actually visit. Does anyone have any data?

Don't have the number but I'm fairly certain that we almost ALWAYS draft the players come in for a visit. So when you see a late rd player on the board and he's come in for a visit, assume he's going to be picked.

Oviedo
04-05-2009, 10:46 AM
Interesting assessment found in today Jim Wexell update in SteelCityInsider. Mack by some is rated as the 3rd best Center.


SUNDAY, APRIL 5

10 a.m.: In many of the stories circulating about Alex Mack's pending visit with the Steelers, the player's being hailed as "the consensus top-ranked center." However, I have him as the No. 3 center, and I looked at the only other set of rankings I care about, and, yep, Mike Mayock has him No. 3 behind Max Unger and Eric Wood. I looked through my notes for some Mayock comments and found these:

-- "We've got some coach's cut-up tapes on some of these guys. We've got a great one on Eric Wood. He's just killing people."

-- "I've never seen a center snap out of the shotgun and pull and get to the next level like Max Unger."


If you check the assements at the link they explain why

http://www.nfl.com/draft/story?id=09000 ... nfirm=true (http://www.nfl.com/draft/story?id=09000d5d80dff358&template=with-video-with-comments&confirm=true)

Personally I like what Unger brings to the table in terms of flexibility.

Chavezz
04-05-2009, 10:49 AM
[quote="Mister Pittsburgh":1gbhkoix]Hopefully if we drafted him and he was an upgrade over Hartwig, Stapleton, or Kemo, they would start him. Would be a good pick if he did turn out a stud and could replace Hartwig after this season.

I think I would like it more if we could find a bonifide OT where we could move Colon inside to G. I think Colon would make a really good OG, maybe our best OG....not so much at OT. By drafting OT that could go year one at RT we would make our OL better at two positions.

Someone with, imo, outstanding credibility strongly disagrees with you and anyone who thinks Colon is a guard, or who thinks Colon could be a guard.

http://www.behindthesteelcurtain.com/20 ... rs-analyst (http://www.behindthesteelcurtain.com/2009/4/2/817159/btsc-chats-with-steelers-analyst)


BTSC: We've heard many say that Colon is really a guard playing tackle. What is your take on that?

WOLFLEY: Colon is not a guard, he just looks like he should be one. He doesn't have the tools to play guard in this league.

He didn't play guard at Hofstra. He's not a guard. Can we put this one to rest finally?[/quote:1gbhkoix]

The answer is no. It will go on forever. When message board participants make up their mind about something it won't change. No matter the evidence provided. I saw the report and thought "Great! Now we can let this go" then someone said "we'll he's not a coach, how does he know. I still think he's our best G evah!"

Sad.

Chavezz
04-05-2009, 10:51 AM
Got to wonder with such a public display of affection for Mack whther this is one of Colbert's smokescreen to try to force someone to grab Mack before 1.32 because he really wants someone else like Unger or Wood.

I think we actually draft a low percentage of players who actually visit. Does anyone have any data?

i am almost pretty positive the last guy we drafted in the first round that paid a visit to us was heath miller...i don't even think timmons visited...and i'm pretty sure that mendenhall didn't visit with us either...

Mendenhall probably did not visit, but he was supposed to go 15 picks earlier. Can't expect late rd teams to bring in players that aren't expected to be available. You only get 30 visits total so you have to be smart about who you bring in.

Mister Pittsburgh
04-05-2009, 11:49 AM
[quote="Mister Pittsburgh":3dpcyluc]Hopefully if we drafted him and he was an upgrade over Hartwig, Stapleton, or Kemo, they would start him. Would be a good pick if he did turn out a stud and could replace Hartwig after this season.

I think I would like it more if we could find a bonifide OT where we could move Colon inside to G. I think Colon would make a really good OG, maybe our best OG....not so much at OT. By drafting OT that could go year one at RT we would make our OL better at two positions.

Someone with, imo, outstanding credibility strongly disagrees with you and anyone who thinks Colon is a guard, or who thinks Colon could be a guard.

http://www.behindthesteelcurtain.com/20 ... rs-analyst (http://www.behindthesteelcurtain.com/2009/4/2/817159/btsc-chats-with-steelers-analyst)


BTSC: We've heard many say that Colon is really a guard playing tackle. What is your take on that?

WOLFLEY: Colon is not a guard, he just looks like he should be one. He doesn't have the tools to play guard in this league.

He didn't play guard at Hofstra. He's not a guard. Can we put this one to rest finally?[/quote:3dpcyluc]

Well then he should be put on the bench because he sucks at RT, no way can he play LT.

steelz09
04-05-2009, 11:51 AM
Got to wonder with such a public display of affection for Mack whther this is one of Colbert's smokescreen to try to force someone to grab Mack before 1.32 because he really wants someone else like Unger or Wood.

I think we actually draft a low percentage of players who actually visit. Does anyone have any data?

i am almost pretty positive the last guy we drafted in the first round that paid a visit to us was heath miller...i don't even think timmons visited...and i'm pretty sure that mendenhall didn't visit with us either...

I don't think Timmons visited but he was far from a smokescreen. I remember clearly that Tomlin and Colbert attended his pro day at FSU and were very outspoken regarding their "like" of Timmons. Many at SteelersLive (including myself) were NOT happy about it and was hoping it was a smokescreen because we didn't like the pick at 1.15. We also thought it was odd that they would be as outspoken about their interests prior to the draft.

I personally think Mack is on their radar in the 1st. Prototypical Steelers type of guy IMO.

Flasteel
04-05-2009, 01:02 PM
Interesting assessment found in today Jim Wexell update in SteelCityInsider. Mack by some is rated as the 3rd best Center.


SUNDAY, APRIL 5

10 a.m.: In many of the stories circulating about Alex Mack's pending visit with the Steelers, the player's being hailed as "the consensus top-ranked center." However, I have him as the No. 3 center, and I looked at the only other set of rankings I care about, and, yep, Mike Mayock has him No. 3 behind Max Unger and Eric Wood. I looked through my notes for some Mayock comments and found these:

-- "We've got some coach's cut-up tapes on some of these guys. We've got a great one on Eric Wood. He's just killing people."

-- "I've never seen a center snap out of the shotgun and pull and get to the next level like Max Unger."


If you check the assements at the link they explain why

http://www.nfl.com/draft/story?id=09000 ... nfirm=true (http://www.nfl.com/draft/story?id=09000d5d80dff358&template=with-video-with-comments&confirm=true)

Personally I like what Unger brings to the table in terms of flexibility.

I've got a lot of respect for Mayock, but his sole critique is that Mack is on the ground too much. I don't know what he's looking at and I certainly don't want to purport to have the insight of Mayock, but Mack seems to be the one planting defenders.

He's given up just one sack in his career and look at these numbers:

2008: One of the best centers in the country with a long list of awards by his name ... recipient of the Draddy Trophy as college football's top scholar-athlete, ... earned first-team All-Pac-10 and Pac-10 All-Academic notice ...had three pancakes and four knockdowns in the opener against Michigan State ... registered five pancakes and four knockdowns against Arizona State ... tallied a season-high six pancakes against Stanford ... prior to the year, selected to the Playboy Preseason All-American Team ... has the top clean all-time at Cal (all positions) at 374 pounds. Lead the team in pancake blocks and knock-downs for a third straight season.


2007: ...led the team in pancakes, knockdowns and cutsÖ named to the Pac-10 All-Academic First Team ... Cal averaged 165.7 rushing yards per game including nine individual 100-yard efforts. Selected as a finalist for the Rimington Trophy as the top center in the nation ... earned the Morris Trophy as the top offensive lineman in the Pac-10 as voted on by the league's defensive linemen

2006: Garnered first-team All-Pac-10 honors after starting all 13 games at the center position ... second team Pac-10 All-Academic selection ... voted the team's Most Improved Offensive Lineman ... finished the regular season with team-highs of 25.5 pancakes and 57.5 knockdowns.

I'd be happy with Unger (Wood seems to have benefitted more by a strong combine), but I don't see a flaw in Mack...he's the pick in my book.

WoodleyofTroy
04-05-2009, 01:17 PM
Mayocks rankings are always completely different than everyone else's.

As for the prospect visits. I think last year was the rare occasion where a guy drafted, didn't come in previously for a look.

Steel Life
04-05-2009, 01:44 PM
Interesting assessment found in today Jim Wexell update in SteelCityInsider. Mack by some is rated as the 3rd best Center.


SUNDAY, APRIL 5

10 a.m.: In many of the stories circulating about Alex Mack's pending visit with the Steelers, the player's being hailed as "the consensus top-ranked center." However, I have him as the No. 3 center, and I looked at the only other set of rankings I care about, and, yep, Mike Mayock has him No. 3 behind Max Unger and Eric Wood. I looked through my notes for some Mayock comments and found these:

-- "We've got some coach's cut-up tapes on some of these guys. We've got a great one on Eric Wood. He's just killing people."

-- "I've never seen a center snap out of the shotgun and pull and get to the next level like Max Unger."


If you check the assements at the link they explain why

http://www.nfl.com/draft/story?id=09000 ... nfirm=true (http://www.nfl.com/draft/story?id=09000d5d80dff358&template=with-video-with-comments&confirm=true)

Personally I like what Unger brings to the table in terms of flexibility.
We know O...you've been relentless :wink:

As for the comments from Mayock...he definitely goes against the grain & he has strong opinions & isn't shy about sharing them - "Both Mike Mayock and Mel Kiper told us emphatically that Woodley canít play outside linebacker in a 3-4 defense." (Patriots.com - http://www.patriots.com/news/index.cfm? ... 45&pcid=46 (http://www.patriots.com/news/index.cfm?ac=latestnewsdetail&pid=24745&pcid=46)). Wonder how he explains that one now?

Anyway, I frequently find myself disagreeing with him & leaning towards McShay, but none of them are infallible. I go by what I see & by what scheme the guys played in, & what I saw was that Mack was a wall against all comers in the Senior Bowl & practices, while Unger was driven back consistently. Besides, it's Mack who is considered the complete package, not Unger - and that's what we need, not flexibility. The other thing is to consider scheme & with Oregon's scheme, Unger should be proficient at the shotgun, but his drive blocking is a question mark & do we need more of that?

Regardless, I think we may need to consider that we may have more choices of "premium" players to choose from at 32 than any of us previously thought. Just as Heath & Mendenhall slid to us in the past, I think we will see the same this year. What if Beatty, Nicks or Barwin are there...do you grab them & move up to get Wood or do you draft the guy who could anchor the line for the next 10 years? It's a problem...

Steel Life
04-05-2009, 01:52 PM
Mayocks rankings are always completely different than everyone else's.

As for the prospect visits. I think last year was the rare occasion where a guy drafted, didn't come in previously for a look.
Last year they brought guys in like Groves, Balmer, Moore & Langford...but for some reason they didn't bite. Of those guys only Langford had any real success - Groves struggled to learn the defense & has trouble maintaining the weight needed, Balmer was a disappointment & Moore finished the season on the Bucs PS...maybe they knew what they were doing :wink: .

Chavezz
04-05-2009, 03:36 PM
mack addressed his reputation of being on the ground on almost every play. You can find the article I'm sure, I think it was from an interview from the combine.

His point is that he's on the ground because he's playing to the echo of the whistle and attempting "clean up" blocks when most players have given up on the play. He says that there are a lot of times where he'll dive at a defender thats in pursuit of an offensive player to get a chip on him where most will just let go because the defender is out of reach. He figures that he may be able to get a hand on him enough to disrupt just enough to spring the offensive player.

Not exact words but it's the jist of the story. So when you hear this, it makes sense as to why he may be on the ground more than a "regular" center.

Think of it this way. Hines Ward will never give up on a ball, so there are times where he realistically doesn't have a shot at catching a ball because it's overthrown, but because he doesn't quit, he lays out for the ball, he gets his hands on the ball but doesn't catch it. That's recorded as a drop, if he gives up on the play it doesn't count as a drop.

Give me the guy that doesn't care about drops and looking bad by "being on the ground" too much because those times where they are putting it all out will balance out and they make a play when they aren't expected too.

I think it may be moot anyway, I've head they like Wood better because of his strength.

TallyStiller
04-05-2009, 03:50 PM
ESPN guys were doing the Packers' on the clock... comment was that BJ Raji should go there at #9 overall because he absolutely blew up everybody at the Senior Bowl practices, then made a point of EXCEPTING Alex Mack. So... what if we go ahead and take the only center out there capable of moving the top nose tackle in the class - start clearing some holes for the middle run game, making last year's #1 useful... I'm feelin' it. We gotta take him if he's there. Let him compete with Stapleton at guard year 1, then plug him in at center year 2 as we let Hartwig go seek work elsewhere when his deal expires.

RuthlessBurgher
04-05-2009, 03:55 PM
Mayocks rankings are always completely different than everyone else's.

As for the prospect visits. I think last year was the rare occasion where a guy drafted, didn't come in previously for a look.
Last year they brought guys in like Groves, Balmer, Moore & Langford...but for some reason they didn't bite. Of those guys only Langford had any real success - Groves struggled to learn the defense & has trouble maintaining the weight needed, Balmer was a disappointment & Moore finished the season on the Bucs PS...maybe they knew what they were doing :wink: .

The main reason you bring a guy in for a personal visit to get a feel for his personality...whether or not you think he will fit in with the team chemistry. Perhaps they were intrigued enough by guys like Groves, Balmer, and Moore on tape, but when they brought them to the South Side complex, there was something about their demeanors that turned us off. The visits are just as much about eliminating some guys that may not fit into the Steeler Way as it is confirming that others might be a good fit on the team. Everyone that they invite in has the talent to potentially help the team out, but that visit gives us a glimpse of whether or not they might have the necessary mindset to be a Steeler as well. It doesn't always work (Plaxico, Anthony Smith, etc.) but more often than not, the front office does a great job of unearthing "Steeler-type" guys.

RuthlessBurgher
04-05-2009, 04:07 PM
SUNDAY, APRIL 5

10 a.m.: In many of the stories circulating about Alex Mack's pending visit with the Steelers, the player's being hailed as "the consensus top-ranked center." However, I have him as the No. 3 center, and I looked at the only other set of rankings I care about, and, yep, Mike Mayock has him No. 3 behind Max Unger and Eric Wood. I looked through my notes for some Mayock comments and found these:

-- "We've got some coach's cut-up tapes on some of these guys. We've got a great one on Eric Wood. He's just killing people."

-- "I've never seen a center snap out of the shotgun and pull and get to the next level like Max Unger."

Regarding the coach's cut-up tapes of Wood, I'm assuming that it was the Louisville coaches that were doing that particular cut-up. Since they want their guy getting drafted as high as possible, they are going to give you essentially a highlight reel. That's nice, but highlight reels are only half the story; you also want a representative sampling of times that he was beaten as well.

Regarding snapping out of the shotgun and pulling, when would that skill ever be useful in the NFL? At Oregon, they ran out of the shotgun constantly, but that will not be the case in the NFL. You aren't going to have Dennis Dixon running a whole lot of QB draws out of the shotgun like he did with the Ducks. And when Unger does operate out of a shotgun in the NFL, he will need to stay where he is and pass block, not pull to get to the next level.

Really, I don't see the point of arguing the relative merits of Unger and Wood in depth, because they will not be likely targets, simply because they should be taken in the early-to-mid second round. The only center who presents value at 32 is Mack, and neither Wood nor Unger is expected to last to 64. I think this team either takes Mack in the first or waits for Luigs, Caldwell, or Shipley early on day two (I obviously would prefer the former scenario).

JUST-PLAIN-NASTY
04-06-2009, 11:20 AM
I would be pleased if Mack was the pick. He is my #1 choice there. However, I believe he will be gone now. My mock reflects what I think will happen versus what I hope to happen. Gilbert will not last past #50 and Mack will be off the board. If Gilbert played at a bigger school the kid would be a Top 20 pick. I think the Steelers take Gilbert @ #32 because he will be the highest graded player on the Steelers board. With Brace off the board by the Steelers 2nd, I think Wood will be the highest graded player left. Unger, Robinson, & Urbik should be gone. I think Wood will grade out higher than any CB left. The Steelers seem to be high on Hill and he won't be around until their 4th. Depending on his private workout, I think the Steelers will be impressed enough to take him at their 3rd. Gilbert, Wood, & Hill all could still be around 10 picks later but I think it will be hard to find a partner to trade back. If the Steelers think they "are their guys", I don't expect them to pass on them. Webb & Knox could be mid round steals. Very raw with alot of upside. Phillips could slip because of his injury and grow behind Farrior. McClinton could be the late round S that makes Carter expendable. Pedescleaux is a project but has the physical tools to become a starter. Gardner was worked out by the Steelers OL coach at his pro-day and has potential to be a solid RT. They really don't have enough amo in the first three rounds to jump early and the steelers don't trade future picks. Many small school players who could produce big results. We all know the Steelers are not afraid to target lesser names from smaller schools if they like them.

RuthlessBurgher
04-06-2009, 12:20 PM
I would be pleased if Mack was the pick. He is my #1 choice there. However, I believe he will be gone now. My mock reflects what I think will happen versus what I hope to happen. Gilbert will not last past #50 and Mack will be off the board. If Gilbert played at a bigger school the kid would be a Top 20 pick. I think the Steelers take Gilbert @ #32 because he will be the highest graded player on the Steelers board. With Brace off the board by the Steelers 2nd, I think Wood will be the highest graded player left. Unger, Robinson, & Urbik should be gone. I think Wood will grade out higher than any CB left. The Steelers seem to be high on Hill and he won't be around until their 4th. Depending on his private workout, I think the Steelers will be impressed enough to take him at their 3rd. Gilbert, Wood, & Hill all could still be around 10 picks later but I think it will be hard to find a partner to trade back. If the Steelers think they "are their guys", I don't expect them to pass on them. Webb & Knox could be mid round steals. Very raw with alot of upside. Phillips could slip because of his injury and grow behind Farrior. McClinton could be the late round S that makes Carter expendable. Pedescleaux is a project but has the physical tools to become a starter. Gardner was worked out by the Steelers OL coach at his pro-day and has potential to be a solid RT. They really don't have enough amo in the first three rounds to jump early and the steelers don't trade future picks. Many small school players who could produce big results. We all know the Steelers are not afraid to target lesser names from smaller schools if they like them.

I actually think that there is a better chance that Mack is available at #32 than Wood is available at #64. Although Minnesota could use a center after losing Birk, I don't think that they spend the 22nd overall pick on a center when they have bigger needs and know that there are several other quality candidates to be had in round 2 or 3. Arizona is a possiblity one spot ahead of us, but I think that they might take a top RB (Wells, Moreno, McCoy, Brown) instead, or perhaps a top linebacker if one falls. If we were truly worried about the Cards, it would only cost a 4th rounder to leapfrog them if we wanted to make sure we get Mack, and that could be worth it.

In the 2nd round, I think that both Unger and Wood come off the board before our pick. Our division rivals in Cleveland and Cincy could both use upgrades at center (and the Browns have 2 second round picks). If those guys don't land in Ohio in round 2, the Vikes or Cards could pounce later in round 2.

Oviedo
04-06-2009, 12:29 PM
I would be pleased if Mack was the pick. He is my #1 choice there. However, I believe he will be gone now. My mock reflects what I think will happen versus what I hope to happen. Gilbert will not last past #50 and Mack will be off the board. If Gilbert played at a bigger school the kid would be a Top 20 pick. I think the Steelers take Gilbert @ #32 because he will be the highest graded player on the Steelers board. With Brace off the board by the Steelers 2nd, I think Wood will be the highest graded player left. Unger, Robinson, & Urbik should be gone. I think Wood will grade out higher than any CB left. The Steelers seem to be high on Hill and he won't be around until their 4th. Depending on his private workout, I think the Steelers will be impressed enough to take him at their 3rd. Gilbert, Wood, & Hill all could still be around 10 picks later but I think it will be hard to find a partner to trade back. If the Steelers think they "are their guys", I don't expect them to pass on them. Webb & Knox could be mid round steals. Very raw with alot of upside. Phillips could slip because of his injury and grow behind Farrior. McClinton could be the late round S that makes Carter expendable. Pedescleaux is a project but has the physical tools to become a starter. Gardner was worked out by the Steelers OL coach at his pro-day and has potential to be a solid RT. They really don't have enough amo in the first three rounds to jump early and the steelers don't trade future picks. Many small school players who could produce big results. We all know the Steelers are not afraid to target lesser names from smaller schools if they like them.

I actually think that there is a better chance that Mack is available at #32 than Wood is available at #64. Although Minnesota could use a center after losing Birk, I don't think that they spend the 22nd overall pick on a center when they have bigger needs and know that there are several other quality candidates to be had in round 2 or 3. Arizona is a possiblity one spot ahead of us, but I think that they might take a top RB (Wells, Moreno, McCoy, Brown) instead, or perhaps a top linebacker if one falls. If we were truly worried about the Cards, it would only cost a 4th rounder to leapfrog them if we wanted to make sure we get Mack, and that could be worth it.

In the 2nd round, I think that both Unger and Wood come off the board before our pick. Our division rivals in Cleveland and Cincy could both use upgrades at center (and the Browns have 2 second round picks). If those guys don't land in Ohio in round 2, the Vikes or Cards could pounce later in round 2.

I really don't think that Mack will be available at 1.32. I think Center is a need and Unger or Wood are the next best who will actually be on the board at 1.32. I know both won't be there at 2.64.

That means if you consider Center a real need you have to take Unger or Wood at 1.32 or as correctly pointed out wait for Luigs at 2.64 or look at Caldwell or Shipley later

pfelix73
04-06-2009, 02:42 PM
"plus his physical talent blows Hartwig out of the water. "

I get a kick out of this quote from the original poster.

Question- And say again- How do you know this?

RuthlessBurgher
04-06-2009, 03:20 PM
"plus his physical talent blows Hartwig out of the water. "

I get a kick out of this quote from the original poster.

Question- And say again- How do you know this?

I wasn't the person who wrote that, but I will defend it anyway.

The truth is, you don't know how any of these draft picks will pan out. We've seen many #1 overall picks...consensus best player in the draft...ultimately flame out in the pros, so there are no guarantees. There will always be a measure of uncertainty with any incoming rookie.

However, with any first round draft pick, you still expect that guy to be better than the incumbent at that spot. I expect Mendenhall to be better than Parker (we shall see what happens with a healthy Mendy...I think he has the potential to be a better overall RB in this offense than FWP). I expected Timmons to be better than Haggans (and even though Timmons ended up playing a different position than we first thought, I think Timmons has the talent to be a better ILB than Haggans was an OLB). I expected to Santonio Holmes to be better than Cedrick Wilson (check). I expected Heath Miller to be better than Jerame Tuman (check check). I expected Ben Roethlisberger to be better than Tommy Maddox (check check check). I expected Troy Polamalu to be better than Mike Logan (check check check check). And so on down the line...

Therefore, I would expect Alex Mack, if he is our first round pick, to be better than Justin Hartwig. In order to construct the best possible o-line for 2009, however, I would have Mack compete with Stapleton at RG at first, then moving over to center in 2010 when Hartwig's contract expired (Webster, Dawson, and Hartings all started out as guards before moving over to center, so Mack could follow a similar path).

aggiebones
04-06-2009, 03:34 PM
Smoke screen to get someone above them to use a pick on him.

RuthlessBurgher
04-06-2009, 04:23 PM
Smoke screen to get someone above them to use a pick on him.

With only 30 visits permitted, it would be stupid to use one as a "smoke screen." They use the visits to see which of the guys that impressed them on tape also would be the kind of guys that fit in with our locker room chemistry. If they are as impressive a person during their visits as they are as a player on the field, then they get priority status. If they do not seem to have a mentality that would mesh with the typical Steeler mindset, we could knock them down a few pegs even if they are impressive athletically.

Flasteel
04-06-2009, 07:16 PM
"plus his physical talent blows Hartwig out of the water. "

I get a kick out of this quote from the original poster.

Question- And say again- How do you know this?

He is a first-round talent brother. Yeah, lots of first rounders fail to make in the league, but it's usually not for a lack of talent. Hartwig is a pedestrian starter at best and was originally a 6th round draft choice who has been allowed to walk by two different teams...you tell me.

Steel Life
04-06-2009, 09:55 PM
...or wait for Luigs at 2.64 or look at Caldwell or Shipley later
None of which are the kind of player we want - it's either Mack or Wood, then on to other priorities.

Steel Life
04-06-2009, 10:01 PM
Here's another site ranking the centers (nationalfootballpost.com)...

- Mack is a tough, blue-collar lineman who plays with a mean streak and is considered the best in the group. He displays excellent base strength and should start very early in his NFL career.
- Unger grades out very closely to Mack but is considered more of an athletic, finesse blocker. Unger relies on his length, footwork and lateral mobility in pass protection and does a nice job understanding angles and sealing run lanes inside. Heís an ideal zone-blocking scheme lineman who should come off the board early in Round 2.
- Wood is a nasty, try-hard center who possesses the versatility to line up all over the interior of the offensive line. He isnít as fluid or comfortable in space as Mack or Unger, but once he gets his hands on you, heís tough to shed.
- Caldwell has flown under the radar lately but has the potential to start very early in his career.
- Luigs rounds out the group and is an instinctive lineman with good feet and body control inside. He doesnít play physical at the point of attack and may be a bit scheme-limited, but he has the athletic skill set to warrant a third-round selection."

...let the debate continue.

SteelerOfDeVille
04-06-2009, 10:32 PM
SUNDAY, APRIL 5

10 a.m.: In many of the stories circulating about Alex Mack's pending visit with the Steelers, the player's being hailed as "the consensus top-ranked center." However, I have him as the No. 3 center, and I looked at the only other set of rankings I care about, and, yep, Mike Mayock has him No. 3 behind Max Unger and Eric Wood. I looked through my notes for some Mayock comments and found these:

-- "We've got some coach's cut-up tapes on some of these guys. We've got a great one on Eric Wood. He's just killing people."

-- "I've never seen a center snap out of the shotgun and pull and get to the next level like Max Unger."

Regarding the coach's cut-up tapes of Wood, I'm assuming that it was the Louisville coaches that were doing that particular cut-up. Since they want their guy getting drafted as high as possible, they are going to give you essentially a highlight reel. That's nice, but highlight reels are only half the story; you also want a representative sampling of times that he was beaten as well.

Regarding snapping out of the shotgun and pulling, when would that skill ever be useful in the NFL? At Oregon, they ran out of the shotgun constantly, but that will not be the case in the NFL. You aren't going to have Dennis Dixon running a whole lot of QB draws out of the shotgun like he did with the Ducks. And when Unger does operate out of a shotgun in the NFL, he will need to stay where he is and pass block, not pull to get to the next level.

Really, I don't see the point of arguing the relative merits of Unger and Wood in depth, because they will not be likely targets, simply because they should be taken in the early-to-mid second round. The only center who presents value at 32 is Mack, and neither Wood nor Unger is expected to last to 64. I think this team either takes Mack in the first or waits for Luigs, Caldwell, or Shipley early on day two (I obviously would prefer the former scenario).
If you make that assumption of tape about Wood, you make it for everyone else, right?

Having said that, I've seen Wood for 4 years as a starter. He's not strong enough to anchor a run game like we want him, IMO... I've seen him get pushed back into the play on occasion. Otherwise, he's pretty solid. Very smart, always in the right place... just not with the strength you want.

He'd be a guy that 2-3 years down the line will be VERY good with weight training, but, wouldn't contend to start as a rook.

SteelerOfDeVille
04-06-2009, 10:44 PM
BTW, have we ALL forgotten that the Titans (who pick 2 before us) are also in need of interior linemen?

I'm not convinced that Mack is even on the board when we select.

Steel Life
04-06-2009, 10:56 PM
BTW, have we ALL forgotten that the Titans (who pick 2 before us) are also in need of interior linemen?

I'm not convinced that Mack is even on the board when we select.
From what I'm reading they're looking at WR & DL with the premium picks.

SteelerOfDeVille
04-06-2009, 11:45 PM
BTW, have we ALL forgotten that the Titans (who pick 2 before us) are also in need of interior linemen?

I'm not convinced that Mack is even on the board when we select.
From what I'm reading they're looking at WR & DL with the premium picks.
lets hope so...

Oviedo
04-07-2009, 08:48 AM
BTW, have we ALL forgotten that the Titans (who pick 2 before us) are also in need of interior linemen?

I'm not convinced that Mack is even on the board when we select.

I also don't think Mack will be there at 1.32. I have also heard the Eagles are looking at him.

If we feel we need a Center then I think our options at 1.32 will be Unger or Wood.

RuthlessBurgher
04-07-2009, 10:13 AM
SUNDAY, APRIL 5

10 a.m.: In many of the stories circulating about Alex Mack's pending visit with the Steelers, the player's being hailed as "the consensus top-ranked center." However, I have him as the No. 3 center, and I looked at the only other set of rankings I care about, and, yep, Mike Mayock has him No. 3 behind Max Unger and Eric Wood. I looked through my notes for some Mayock comments and found these:

-- "We've got some coach's cut-up tapes on some of these guys. We've got a great one on Eric Wood. He's just killing people."

-- "I've never seen a center snap out of the shotgun and pull and get to the next level like Max Unger."

Regarding the coach's cut-up tapes of Wood, I'm assuming that it was the Louisville coaches that were doing that particular cut-up. Since they want their guy getting drafted as high as possible, they are going to give you essentially a highlight reel. That's nice, but highlight reels are only half the story; you also want a representative sampling of times that he was beaten as well.

Regarding snapping out of the shotgun and pulling, when would that skill ever be useful in the NFL? At Oregon, they ran out of the shotgun constantly, but that will not be the case in the NFL. You aren't going to have Dennis Dixon running a whole lot of QB draws out of the shotgun like he did with the Ducks. And when Unger does operate out of a shotgun in the NFL, he will need to stay where he is and pass block, not pull to get to the next level.

Really, I don't see the point of arguing the relative merits of Unger and Wood in depth, because they will not be likely targets, simply because they should be taken in the early-to-mid second round. The only center who presents value at 32 is Mack, and neither Wood nor Unger is expected to last to 64. I think this team either takes Mack in the first or waits for Luigs, Caldwell, or Shipley early on day two (I obviously would prefer the former scenario).
If you make that assumption of tape about Wood, you make it for everyone else, right?

Having said that, I've seen Wood for 4 years as a starter. He's not strong enough to anchor a run game like we want him, IMO... I've seen him get pushed back into the play on occasion. Otherwise, he's pretty solid. Very smart, always in the right place... just not with the strength you want.

He'd be a guy that 2-3 years down the line will be VERY good with weight training, but, wouldn't contend to start as a rook.

It is just the way it was stated: "We've got some coach's cut-up tapes on some of these guys. We've got a great one on Eric Wood. He's just killing people."

You could easily come up with a YouTube highlight reel of some random RB who will likely be undrafted that makes him look like the second coming of Jerome Bettis if you are able to whittle down 4 years of college to a handful of impressive plays in a clip that is only a couple of minutes long (exhibit A: remember that big kid from Hawaii that everyone was pumped up about a few years ago? He was so impressive as an NFL prospect that I forget his name already :P )

Oviedo
04-07-2009, 10:40 AM
SUNDAY, APRIL 5

10 a.m.: In many of the stories circulating about Alex Mack's pending visit with the Steelers, the player's being hailed as "the consensus top-ranked center." However, I have him as the No. 3 center, and I looked at the only other set of rankings I care about, and, yep, Mike Mayock has him No. 3 behind Max Unger and Eric Wood. I looked through my notes for some Mayock comments and found these:

-- "We've got some coach's cut-up tapes on some of these guys. We've got a great one on Eric Wood. He's just killing people."

-- "I've never seen a center snap out of the shotgun and pull and get to the next level like Max Unger."

Regarding the coach's cut-up tapes of Wood, I'm assuming that it was the Louisville coaches that were doing that particular cut-up. Since they want their guy getting drafted as high as possible, they are going to give you essentially a highlight reel. That's nice, but highlight reels are only half the story; you also want a representative sampling of times that he was beaten as well.

Regarding snapping out of the shotgun and pulling, when would that skill ever be useful in the NFL? At Oregon, they ran out of the shotgun constantly, but that will not be the case in the NFL. You aren't going to have Dennis Dixon running a whole lot of QB draws out of the shotgun like he did with the Ducks. And when Unger does operate out of a shotgun in the NFL, he will need to stay where he is and pass block, not pull to get to the next level.

Really, I don't see the point of arguing the relative merits of Unger and Wood in depth, because they will not be likely targets, simply because they should be taken in the early-to-mid second round. The only center who presents value at 32 is Mack, and neither Wood nor Unger is expected to last to 64. I think this team either takes Mack in the first or waits for Luigs, Caldwell, or Shipley early on day two (I obviously would prefer the former scenario).
If you make that assumption of tape about Wood, you make it for everyone else, right?

Having said that, I've seen Wood for 4 years as a starter. He's not strong enough to anchor a run game like we want him, IMO... I've seen him get pushed back into the play on occasion. Otherwise, he's pretty solid. Very smart, always in the right place... just not with the strength you want.

He'd be a guy that 2-3 years down the line will be VERY good with weight training, but, wouldn't contend to start as a rook.

It is just the way it was stated: "We've got some coach's cut-up tapes on some of these guys. We've got a great one on Eric Wood. He's just killing people."

You could easily come up with a YouTube highlight reel of some random RB who will likely be undrafted that makes him look like the second coming of Jerome Bettis if you are able to whittle down 4 years of college to a handful of impressive plays in a clip that is only a couple of minutes long (exhibit A: remember that big kid from Hawaii that everyone was pumped up about a few years ago? He was so impressive as an NFL prospect that I forget his name already :P )

Here he is--Ikaika Alama-Francis. Unfortunately he is trapped because he was unfortunate enough to get drafted by the Lions. He isn't doing bad and I still wish we had gotten him for the DL.

http://www.detroitlions.com/bio.cfm?bio ... &season=11 (http://www.detroitlions.com/bio.cfm?bio_id=446&season=11)

RuthlessBurgher
04-07-2009, 11:19 AM
SUNDAY, APRIL 5

10 a.m.: In many of the stories circulating about Alex Mack's pending visit with the Steelers, the player's being hailed as "the consensus top-ranked center." However, I have him as the No. 3 center, and I looked at the only other set of rankings I care about, and, yep, Mike Mayock has him No. 3 behind Max Unger and Eric Wood. I looked through my notes for some Mayock comments and found these:

-- "We've got some coach's cut-up tapes on some of these guys. We've got a great one on Eric Wood. He's just killing people."

-- "I've never seen a center snap out of the shotgun and pull and get to the next level like Max Unger."

Regarding the coach's cut-up tapes of Wood, I'm assuming that it was the Louisville coaches that were doing that particular cut-up. Since they want their guy getting drafted as high as possible, they are going to give you essentially a highlight reel. That's nice, but highlight reels are only half the story; you also want a representative sampling of times that he was beaten as well.

Regarding snapping out of the shotgun and pulling, when would that skill ever be useful in the NFL? At Oregon, they ran out of the shotgun constantly, but that will not be the case in the NFL. You aren't going to have Dennis Dixon running a whole lot of QB draws out of the shotgun like he did with the Ducks. And when Unger does operate out of a shotgun in the NFL, he will need to stay where he is and pass block, not pull to get to the next level.

Really, I don't see the point of arguing the relative merits of Unger and Wood in depth, because they will not be likely targets, simply because they should be taken in the early-to-mid second round. The only center who presents value at 32 is Mack, and neither Wood nor Unger is expected to last to 64. I think this team either takes Mack in the first or waits for Luigs, Caldwell, or Shipley early on day two (I obviously would prefer the former scenario).
If you make that assumption of tape about Wood, you make it for everyone else, right?

Having said that, I've seen Wood for 4 years as a starter. He's not strong enough to anchor a run game like we want him, IMO... I've seen him get pushed back into the play on occasion. Otherwise, he's pretty solid. Very smart, always in the right place... just not with the strength you want.

He'd be a guy that 2-3 years down the line will be VERY good with weight training, but, wouldn't contend to start as a rook.

It is just the way it was stated: "We've got some coach's cut-up tapes on some of these guys. We've got a great one on Eric Wood. He's just killing people."

You could easily come up with a YouTube highlight reel of some random RB who will likely be undrafted that makes him look like the second coming of Jerome Bettis if you are able to whittle down 4 years of college to a handful of impressive plays in a clip that is only a couple of minutes long (exhibit A: remember that big kid from Hawaii that everyone was pumped up about a few years ago? He was so impressive as an NFL prospect that I forget his name already :P )

Here he is--Ikaika Alama-Francis. Unfortunately he is trapped because he was unfortunate enough to get drafted by the Lions. He isn't doing bad and I still wish we had gotten him for the DL.

http://www.detroitlions.com/bio.cfm?bio ... &season=11 (http://www.detroitlions.com/bio.cfm?bio_id=446&season=11)

No...I was referring to that big ol' RB from the University of Hawaii. Using my google prowess, I was able to find him...Nate Ilaoa. The Eagles drafted him in the 7th round a couple of years ago. According to wiki, he's now in the Arena League.

Steel Life
04-07-2009, 09:13 PM
Shoot...I thought you were referring to the safety Leonard Peters...he's on the Bears' PS now.

RuthlessBurgher
04-07-2009, 09:18 PM
Shoot...I thought you were referring to the safety Leonard Peters...he's on the Bears' PS now.

Yeah, now that you mention it, some folks on here seemed to have an unnatural obsession with numerous players from the University of Hawaii. If they hadn't removed the Rainbow from their name, I might start thinking certain things about certain people.

http://www.whatchoolookinat.com/wp-content/uploads/2006/06/in-living-color.jpg

Steel Life
04-09-2009, 12:29 AM
Shoot...I thought you were referring to the safety Leonard Peters...he's on the Bears' PS now.

Yeah, now that you mention it, some folks on here seemed to have an unnatural obsession with numerous players from the University of Hawaii. If they hadn't removed the Rainbow from their name, I might start thinking certain things about certain people.

http://www.whatchoolookinat.com/wp-content/uploads/2006/06/in-living-color.jpg
Hawaii?!? Gasp & swoon I just caught the vapors!