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View Full Version : Package picks and trade up?



stlrz d
03-23-2009, 11:29 AM
We've got a lot of picks, but honestly, not a lot of room on the roster.

What do you think draftnicks? Do the Steelers package some picks and trade up to get a player they may really want? Is it possible? Who may be a likely trading partner?

Discuss...I demand it! :P

MeetJoeGreene
03-23-2009, 11:40 AM
I am not opposed to it per se, but you have to have a willing trading partner and the right player needs to fall.

I am actually MORE in favor of doing it in mid-rounds as opposed to the first when the prices isn't SO steep.

I think we have the roster spots to keep most of our draft choices or put them on the PS.

steelblood
03-23-2009, 11:53 AM
It is certainly a possibility. I think they could also move up in the 2nd or 3rd to get a guy they like. With all of the UFAs, we'll have after the 2009 season. The Steelers must find a way to add as many quality young players as they can to their current roster.

To speak to your point about not having a lot of holes for the # of picks we have. I think we could find spots for 9 guys on our 53 man roster.

WR- lost Nate - need 1-2
TE - - need 0
QB - likely will add a vet - need 0
RB - - need 0
FB - Davis could be upgraded - need 0-1
OL - lost Simmons and Smith - need 2-3
DL - lost Roye, could cut a vet backup DE - need 1-2
OLB - Deebo, Wood, Bailey, Frazier, A. Harrison - need 0
ILB - - need 1
S - lost Smith - need 1-2
CB - lost BMac - need 1
A kick returner would help too.

Our need range is 7-12 players, I'd say. So, I think the 9 picks would all get a fair shot to make the team.

stlrz d
03-23-2009, 11:58 AM
Good points, but remember there will also be UFAs in the mix.

RuthlessBurgher
03-23-2009, 12:15 PM
I've stated in other threads that the only major move I would make round 1 (i.e. vault into the top 20) would be if a top OT like Michael Oher fell. My trade partner would be Tomlin's former team in Tampa, where the assistant DB coach that worked directly under Tomlin there is now the Bucs' head coach. They pick right in front of Detroit and Philly, both of which I think could take tackles. Tampa would probably like to start their new regime with a hand-picked QB, and they are reported to like Josh Freeman (who Raheem Morris knows from his one year at Kansas State). The 19th overall pick may be a bit early for Freeman (he could just as easily be had at #32 since there are no QB starved teams down there after Minnesota traded for Sage Rosenfels...provided at Detroit takes Stafford or Sanchez at #1 overall). They could not wait and hope that Freeman falls to them in the second round because Tampa does not have a 2nd round pick after trading it for Kellen Winslow. The cost of doing business to move up from #32 to #19, according to the trade value chart, would be our 2nd and 6th round picks (they would like getting a 2nd round pick back again after the Winslow trade, plus a late round pick from us, after they gave us their 7th rounder in the Mahan trade). I would be willing to pay that price for a top tackle, especially since both of our starters at tackle have contracts that are due to expire at the end of this season. Getting a young, talented, and relatively inexpensive OT option would be my best case scenario.

If not, I would be willing to make a minor trade-up a few spots in the first to take Alex Mack if he is deemed to be their top target at #32, but they are worried that another team could snatch him ahead of us.

A third trade-up option would be to move up in the second round to get a beast for our d-line like Jarron Gilbert if they do not feel he will fall to #64.

Oviedo
03-23-2009, 12:19 PM
I'm actusally going to throw you a curve here. I'm all for trading down into the Top 10 of Round 2 and picking up more picks. My logic is that we don't have a pressing need and no rookie we draft will be called upon to start this year.

So why not trade down out of 1.32 with someone like Oakland, Jacksonville or Green Bay (#7, 8 and 9 in Round 2 respectively) and pick up another pick or two. With those extra pick we may be able to move up 5-8 picks in Round 2 and 3 and get players who are more in demand.

The benefits i see is flexibility to move out of the last pick in in a couple of rounds plus we could probably still get a quality player at the position we want, i.e. we may pass on Mack at 1.32 but could get Wood or Unger early in Round 2 or pass on Tyson Jackson at 1.32 and get Ron Brace early in Round 2.

ramblinjim
03-23-2009, 12:56 PM
:2c I'm not very good at this draft thing but here are mine....

I'm thinking the Steelers will gamble and hope that whomever they have tabbed will fall to them, be it Mack or Brace or the 3rd CB. I think they may be more willing to trade out of the first round to the top of the second and pick up an extra 2nd day pick if they think one of their top three or four guys will fall into the second round. This will add an additional guy on day 2 and perhaps they'll get their top guy with second round money.

phillyesq
03-23-2009, 01:16 PM
I think whether the Steelers trade up or down largely depends on: 1) their internal scouting evaluations; and 2) the way the draft unfolds.

If a guy the Steelers really like slides into striking range in the 20s, I think the Steelers will, and should, go after him. Moving up to grab players that they have targeted has worked very well for them in the first round. I could also see the Steelers using one of their picks to move up in the 2nd - 4th rounds. If there is nobody that they like at 1.32, and they haven't been able to move up, then a trade back makes a lot of sense.

TallyStiller
03-23-2009, 08:31 PM
I'd love it if we moved up in R2 to get a guy like Jarron Gilbert. Tremendous athleticism, good size, playmaking ability... work him slowly into the D Line rotation... Yessir.

steelz09
03-23-2009, 09:13 PM
Not now.. since we're only getting a rd 5 comp pick. What a bunch of bull$****!

Steel Life
03-23-2009, 11:30 PM
Not now.. since we're only getting a rd 5 comp pick. What a bunch of bull$bad word!
With the lack of flexibility not having another 3rd & If Mack is gone, I'm all for trading back for additional picks in the 3rd & 4th.

SteelerOfDeVille
03-23-2009, 11:45 PM
It is certainly a possibility. I think they could also move up in the 2nd or 3rd to get a guy they like. With all of the UFAs, we'll have after the 2009 season. The Steelers must find a way to add as many quality young players as they can to their current roster.

To speak to your point about not having a lot of holes for the # of picks we have. I think we could find spots for 9 guys on our 53 man roster.

WR- lost Nate - need 1-2
TE - - need 0
QB - likely will add a vet - need 0
RB - - need 0
FB - Davis could be upgraded - need 0-1
OL - lost Simmons and Smith - need 2-3
DL - lost Roye, could cut a vet backup DE - need 1-2
OLB - Deebo, Wood, Bailey, Frazier, A. Harrison - need 0
ILB - - need 1
S - lost Smith - need 1-2
CB - lost BMac - need 1
A kick returner would help too.

Our need range is 7-12 players, I'd say. So, I think the 9 picks would all get a fair shot to make the team.
S is a luxory... but, i'd like an OLB... who would play if Deebo or wood went down?

Chadman
03-24-2009, 12:43 AM
It is certainly a possibility. I think they could also move up in the 2nd or 3rd to get a guy they like. With all of the UFAs, we'll have after the 2009 season. The Steelers must find a way to add as many quality young players as they can to their current roster.

To speak to your point about not having a lot of holes for the # of picks we have. I think we could find spots for 9 guys on our 53 man roster.

WR- lost Nate - need 1-2
TE - - need 0
QB - likely will add a vet - need 0
RB - - need 0
FB - Davis could be upgraded - need 0-1
OL - lost Simmons and Smith - need 2-3
DL - lost Roye, could cut a vet backup DE - need 1-2
OLB - Deebo, Wood, Bailey, Frazier, A. Harrison - need 0
ILB - - need 1
S - lost Smith - need 1-2
CB - lost BMac - need 1
A kick returner would help too.

Our need range is 7-12 players, I'd say. So, I think the 9 picks would all get a fair shot to make the team.
S is a luxory... but, i'd like an OLB... who would play if Deebo or wood went down?

Timmons?

Oviedo
03-24-2009, 04:53 PM
Not now.. since we're only getting a rd 5 comp pick. What a bunch of bull$bad word!
With the lack of flexibility not having another 3rd & If Mack is gone, I'm all for trading back for additional picks in the 3rd & 4th.

Totally agree. As late as we pick in each round we need to get a couple higher round picks so we can get players who may be gone by the end of each round.

D Rock
03-24-2009, 06:06 PM
It is certainly a possibility. I think they could also move up in the 2nd or 3rd to get a guy they like. With all of the UFAs, we'll have after the 2009 season. The Steelers must find a way to add as many quality young players as they can to their current roster.

To speak to your point about not having a lot of holes for the # of picks we have. I think we could find spots for 9 guys on our 53 man roster.

WR- lost Nate - need 1-2
TE - - need 0
QB - likely will add a vet - need 0
RB - - need 0
FB - Davis could be upgraded - need 0-1
OL - lost Simmons and Smith - need 2-3
DL - lost Roye, could cut a vet backup DE - need 1-2
OLB - Deebo, Wood, Bailey, Frazier, A. Harrison - need 0
ILB - - need 1
S - lost Smith - need 1-2
CB - lost BMac - need 1
A kick returner would help too.

Our need range is 7-12 players, I'd say. So, I think the 9 picks would all get a fair shot to make the team.
S is a luxory... but, i'd like an OLB... who would play if Deebo or wood went down?

Banking on Davis?

Timmons didn't seem like much in year one but came alive in his sophomore season. Hopefully Davis can do the same. Deebo took a few years to figure it out too....5 years ago people may have been asking "who is going to take over if Haggans or Porter goes down?" when the answer was right there in the list of recently cut players.

BigBen2112
03-24-2009, 06:59 PM
The Steelers should trade down if anything in the draft. We have some areas of clear concern and not enough top-flight picks to address them...especially after being shafted badly by the NFL in the compensation pick department.

Chadman
04-01-2009, 12:48 AM
Follow the link to the DRAFT VALUE CHART.

http://www.draftcountdown.com/features/Value-Chart.php

You'll notice that the Steelers picks are not that 'valuable' to trade up with.

For example, using that chart, the Steelers could package picks #32 & #64 to the value of 860 points- this puts you at just above the value for pick #20- Detroit's 2nd pick. This means the Steelers would have a shot at a guy like Eben Britton, the 4th or 5th rated OT (depending what site you look at). Is a guy like Britton worthy of the 1st & 2nd round picks this season? Or should they wait at #32?

OR....if they package #32, #64 & #96, that would give a value of 976 points- putting the Steelers in the range of pick #17- New York Jets- 3 picks higher than your 1st & 2nd pick values. Worth it?

OR...package #32, #64, #96 & #128 & you get 1020 points- taking you 1 place higher to #16, The Chargers. Worth giving up all your first 4 picks?

Basically, if the Steelers give up most of this years draft, or part of this year & part of next year, they should be able to hit the middle of Round 1. Which should definately put them in place to grab Alex Mack. But is Alex Mack worth that much investment when they could stand pat & have a shot at an Andre Caldwell or Eric Wood in Round 2?

Don't worry- trading down holds the same pitfalls- the 590 points you get for #32- if traded for a 1st & 2nd round pick, puts you at #50 (Cleveland) & #82 (Detroit)- that drops you 18 spots for an extra 3rd round pick. Worth it? Of course, you'd have to look at a team that can offer picks to that value- so in reality you'd be looking at...The Jets with picks #52 (380 points) & pick #76 (210 points) to achieve best value. Worth it? That certainly lokos the best value to Chadman, but still- that strikes a lot of talent off the board before your first pick.

Of course- the Steelers could trade DOWN from #32 (590 points) with the Jets at #52 (380 points) & #76 (210 points), then use picks #64 & #96 & #192 to trade UP to #50 (Cleveland)...giving the Steelers #50, #52 & #76 in the first three rounds. It would give a slightly better cluster of value than picks #32, #64 & #96, for the same points. Of course, you'd miss the 'prime' pick at #32 as a result.....worth it?

steeler_george
04-01-2009, 07:26 AM
Trade up

Round 1....

Only if there is a stud DL/OL still on the board who fell or a player like Mendal who happened to slip CB/LB/S/WR.

Round 2

If we select either a OL or DE in round 1 pick the opposite in the early round 2.
options: Wood, Unger, Duke Robinson and either one of the highly regarded DL.

Best scenario would be to trade back in round 2 in my opinion. Where there is a lot of valued players in the areas where we would most likely to focus on. OL/DL/DB/WR Return specialists. Considering the value between pick 32- 40 are fairly the same level of talent value.

RuthlessBurgher
04-01-2009, 10:16 AM
For example, using that chart, the Steelers could package picks #32 & #64 to the value of 860 points- this puts you at just above the value for pick #20- Detroit's 2nd pick. This means the Steelers would have a shot at a guy like Eben Britton, the 4th or 5th rated OT (depending what site you look at). Is a guy like Britton worthy of the 1st & 2nd round picks this season? Or should they wait at #32?

Not for Britton, but if Michael Oher fell to pick #19, I would trade our 1st and 2nd round pick to Tampa for him. Detroit at #20 and Philly at #21 would likely pounce on Oher, so you'd need to jump ahead of them. Tampa would make the move because they could recoup the 2nd round pick they gave up in the trade for Winslow. And since they are likely targeting Josh Freeman with the 19th pick (assuming no trade for Cutler in the mean time), is there any team between 20-31 (if Detroit takes Stafford 1st overall) that would take Freeman (I doubt Minnesota since they spent a 4th rounder on Rosenfels)? So Tampa could still get the guy they want at #32, plus get a 2nd round pick.

steeler_fan_in_t.o.
04-01-2009, 10:49 AM
It is certainly a possibility. I think they could also move up in the 2nd or 3rd to get a guy they like. With all of the UFAs, we'll have after the 2009 season. The Steelers must find a way to add as many quality young players as they can to their current roster.

To speak to your point about not having a lot of holes for the # of picks we have. I think we could find spots for 9 guys on our 53 man roster.

WR- lost Nate - need 1-2
TE - - need 0
QB - likely will add a vet - need 0
RB - - need 0
FB - Davis could be upgraded - need 0-1
OL - lost Simmons and Smith - need 2-3
DL - lost Roye, could cut a vet backup DE - need 1-2
OLB - Deebo, Wood, Bailey, Frazier, A. Harrison - need 0
ILB - - need 1
S - lost Smith - need 1-2
CB - lost BMac - need 1
A kick returner would help too.

Our need range is 7-12 players, I'd say. So, I think the 9 picks would all get a fair shot to make the team.
S is a luxory... but, i'd like an OLB... who would play if Deebo or wood went down?

Timmons?

This summer we will see if Davis can bring anything to the table.

Chavezz
04-01-2009, 12:26 PM
I am not opposed to it per se, but you have to have a willing trading partner and the right player needs to fall.

I am actually MORE in favor of doing it in mid-rounds as opposed to the first when the prices isn't SO steep.

I think we have the roster spots to keep most of our draft choices or put them on the PS.


I agree. There is a lot of value in the early 2nd through the early 4th. I wouldn't be opposed to trading back out of the 1st to the early 2nd to pick up an extra 3rd and a 4th.

We then could take a few of the mid to late rd picks to move up for targeted players.

I really like a lot of the 2nd/3rd rd rated players.

Ron Brace
Jerron Gilbert
Ziggy Hood
Urbik
Sean Smith
Macho Harris
Canfield
Unger
Jamon Merideth

Just to name a few off the top of my head.