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stlrz d
03-18-2009, 11:32 AM
http://talk.baltimoresun.com/showthread.php?t=190817

Good stuff...some of them even go so far as to say it's because Woodson is racist. :roll:

I also laugh at the "pre-determined" stuff. Woodson and Wilcots agreed on some of them so that blows their "pre-determined just to get viewers" theories.

SteelCzar76
03-18-2009, 11:51 AM
http://talk.baltimoresun.com/showthread.php?t=190817

Good stuff...some of them even go so far as to say it's because Woodson is racist. :roll:

I also laugh at the "pre-determined" stuff. Woodson and Wilcots agreed on some of them so that blows their "pre-determined just to get viewers" theories.

I agree with Rod. Especially when you evaluate the fact that anyone is expendable based upon production or lack thereof in terms of their specific position.(ie: how well do you do your specific job in comparison to your peers. (as opposed to just simply being part of an exceptional overall Team/organization) This should be no different for QB's.

Though this is "fliud" because Flacco is merely a rookie and can yet evolve into an elite class at his position. But in my opinion there are 4 qb's that are elite. Brady, Manning, Rivers, Brees. (With Matt Ryan hard on their heals.)

SteelCzar76
03-18-2009, 11:51 AM
Posted twice,..

grotonsteel
03-18-2009, 11:58 AM
http://talk.baltimoresun.com/showthread.php?t=190817

But in my opinion there are 4 qb's that are elite. Brady, Manning, Rivers, Brees. (With Matt Ryan hard on their heals.)

Drew Brees and Noddle Arms Rivers are elite??? :shock:

Again Drew Brees is the reason Saints sucked at away games...he was horrible..and Rivers had one good season. How can they be elite?

what's the criteria for being elite...

SteelCzar76
03-18-2009, 12:07 PM
what's the criteria for being elite...

Accuracy, Intelligence, consistency, leadership skills, will and mental dexterity to go along with the physical abilities to "throw" the football.

RuthlessBurgher
03-18-2009, 12:08 PM
http://talk.baltimoresun.com/showthread.php?t=190817

But in my opinion there are 4 qb's that are elite. Brady, Manning, Rivers, Brees. (With Matt Ryan hard on their heals.)

Drew Brees and Noddle Arms Rivers are elite??? :shock:

Again Drew Brees is the reason Saints sucked at away games...he was horrible..and Rivers had one good season. How can they be elite?

what's the criteria for being elite...

Apparently not Super Bowl rings. :stirpot :lol:

RuthlessBurgher
03-18-2009, 12:09 PM
what's the criteria for being elite...

Accuracy, Intelligence, consistency, leadership skills, will and mental dexterity to go along with the physical abilities to "throw" the football.

Which of those skills does Rivers rank above Roethlisberger in your mind? Just curious...

SteelCzar76
03-18-2009, 12:27 PM
Apparently not Super Bowl rings. :stirpot :lol:

Lol,...I'm speaking of how one stacks up against their peers in terms of producing at their said position. Not just being fortunate enough to play upon one of the better teams in the league. (Note: Last minute drives because one hasn't produced for the games entirety prior to said drives, and because there is a exceptional defense to keep the opposition's scoring within a range so as to make it possible,..does not make one elite) :lol: :stirpot

SteelCzar76
03-18-2009, 12:31 PM
what's the criteria for being elite...

Accuracy, Intelligence, consistency, leadership skills, will and mental dexterity to go along with the physical abilities to "throw" the football.

Which of those skills does Rivers rank above Roethlisberger in your mind? Just curious...

Accuracy, Intelligence, consistency. And do i really have to mention "stats" ? Ben does however hold the edge in terms of Intangibles,...at times as though he has the "favor of the Gods" :lol:

Djfan
03-18-2009, 01:35 PM
Wow.

I can hardly wait until a good OC is leading Ben.

WoodleyofTroy
03-18-2009, 03:07 PM
Apparently not Super Bowl rings. :stirpot :lol:

Lol,...I'm speaking of how one stacks up against their peers in terms of producing at their said position. Not just being fortunate enough to play upon one of the better teams in the league. (Note: Last minute drives because one hasn't produced for the games entirety prior to said drives, and because there is a exceptional defense to keep the opposition's scoring within a range so as to make it possible,..does not make one elite) :lol: :stirpot

Not that I didn't already know, but I can't remember how many times I watched a game where the announcer came away saying that Ben just has that "it" factor. It has nothing to do which team he plays for. He'd be carrying that "it" anywhere.

And how many times does someone have to remind you that the Steelers have always had a good defense, but couldn't win the Super Bowl?

Add the fact that the run game and play calling (based on their present personel on the field) and Offensive Line, are close to an all time worse (that I've seen or am use to).

Were you happy when Ben threw that game winning TD to Holmes or were you pissed you couldn't come on the boards with the "I told you so's"?

grotonsteel
03-18-2009, 03:28 PM
Apparently not Super Bowl rings. :stirpot :lol:

Lol,...I'm speaking of how one stacks up against their peers in terms of producing at their said position. Not just being fortunate enough to play upon one of the better teams in the league. (Note: Last minute drives because one hasn't produced for the games entirety prior to said drives, and because there is a exceptional defense to keep the opposition's scoring within a range so as to make it possible,..does not make one elite) :lol: :stirpot

Not that I didn't already know, but I can't remember how many times I watched a game where the announcer came away saying that Ben just has that "it" factor. It has nothing to do which team he plays for. He'd be carrying that "it" anywhere.

And how many times does someone have to remind you that the Steelers have always had a good defense, but couldn't win the Super Bowl?

Add the fact that the run game and play calling (based on their present personel on the field) and Offensive Line, are close to an all time worse (that I've seen or am use to).

Were you happy when Ben threw that game winning TD to Holmes or were you pissed you couldn't come on the boards with the "I told you so's"?


$$$$$$ POST............

RuthlessBurgher
03-18-2009, 03:49 PM
what's the criteria for being elite...

Accuracy, Intelligence, consistency, leadership skills, will and mental dexterity to go along with the physical abilities to "throw" the football.

Which of those skills does Rivers rank above Roethlisberger in your mind? Just curious...

Accuracy, Intelligence, consistency. And do i really have to mention "stats" ? Ben does however hold the edge in terms of Intangibles,...at times as though he has the "favor of the Gods" :lol:

I would think that Rivers has the favor of the Gods. His first year as a starter, San Diego sent 10 players to the Pro Bowl. The next season it was 8. Last season it was 2. In those same 3 season, the Steelers have sent 4, 6, and 3 players to the Pro Bowl. Yet, with so many more All-Stars surrounding him, Philip Rivers hasn't won anything of significance (other than division championships in the pitiful AFC West).

Accuracy? Rivers has a career 62.3 completion percentage. Ben's is 62.4.

Stats? Phil had a great year this past season, throwing 34 TD's and 11 INT's. Don't forget that Ben threw 32 TD's and 11 INT's the season before that.

Intelligence? I've seen Rivers completely blow his top and yell at both teammates as well as fans during a game (?!?!). Other than disclosing an injury or two that he may or may not have had after the fact, Ben is smart enough to keep his mouth shut and support his teammates and coaches like a true leader should. That is intelligent to me. And that is a big reason why he wins.

feltdizz
03-18-2009, 05:14 PM
I used to be a "Ben hater".... not really but you know, I was the typical Steeler fan who wanted perfection and bashed him for "holding the ball too long" and taking hits...

but after this postseason only a damn fool would doubt Ben. Sure we can critique him and dissect his game, we are fans, this is what we do. However anyone talking about what Ben can't do and comparing him to QB's who can't get it done in the clutch is a fool.

What is the point of stats and 3 quarters of great QB play if he can't get it done in the 4th?

What is the point of giving all the credit to the Steeler D if we went 25 years without a SB with just average QB's and great D's and won 2 with Ben in 5 years with 2 different head coaches?

What is the point of gushing over QB's who are watching Ben perform miracles on their couch?

I really wish I could be a fly on the wall when Ben threw that TD pass to win the SB while his detractors cheered for everyone but him...

at some point those who doubt Ben must realize they might as well tell Steeler fans the sky isn't blue.. rain isn't wet.. and Pittsburgh only has 2 rivers and was known for making paper back in the early 1900's..

who would really want a great QB who can't win over a decent "game manager" who can't lose? Anyone who would take Peyton manning over Ben in the playoffs is attracted to losing.

Anyone who thinks Ben is average but Brees Rivers Manning and Cutler are elite want to be victims and blame refs.. defenses.. wind, rain and overtime coin tosses..LOL!

Ben is the best QB in the NFL right now.. because winning is all that matters..

SteelCzar76
03-18-2009, 07:11 PM
Were you happy when Ben threw that game winning TD to Holmes or were you pissed you couldn't come on the boards with the "I told you so's"?

Really Wood ? Your missing my point which is, was and will always remain the same,....If your Boy would play for even 75% of a game the way he does in the final 2 minutes we would not need heroics to barely get by anyone,..we'd be dominant and he would be Elite.

As things stand now the latter is not the case. He's a good kid with potential,..but he has a poor work ethic and i'm not sure that he really has a high football IQ. These things prevent him from being the Qb that his fans would like for the world to believe that he currently is in my opinion.

SteelCzar76
03-18-2009, 07:35 PM
Add the fact that the run game and play calling (based on their present personel on the field) and Offensive Line, are close to an all time worse (that I've seen or am use to).


So Arians and the O-line which were also part of a World Championship team can be criticised for being both sloppy and inconsistent,...but it's madness to speak of Roethlisberger's own shortcomings which are exactly of the same nature ? You can't have it one baby boy. If your are going to sweep Roethlisbeger's nonsense under the rug and or make excuses for him,..do the same for the Arians and the O-LINE.

WoodleyofTroy
03-18-2009, 08:09 PM
Add the fact that the run game and play calling (based on their present personel on the field) and Offensive Line, are close to an all time worse (that I've seen or am use to).


So Arians and the O-line which were also part of a World Championship team can be criticised for being both sloppy and inconsistent,...but it's madness to speak of Roethlisberger's own shortcomings which are exactly of the same nature ? You can't have it one baby boy. If your are going to sweep Roethlisbeger's nonsense under the rug and or make excuses for him,..do the same for the Arians and the O-LINE.

Sure they were apart, but name me one poster on any Steelers forum (there are many) that credits the Offensive Line and offensive play calling, for the Steelers making it to the playoffs, getting to the Super Bowl, and winning the game, in the light they would for Ben, besides you of course. You're like one of those fans from another team that looks at the box score, see's Ben's stats, and automatically assumes he's still being carried by a "smashmouth" running game in Pittsburgh. Totally neglecting the football plays he makes to keep the game going.

Anyway, your response makes no sense whatsoever. I'm not sweeping anything under the rug, because there is nothing there, why should I have to for the OL and Arians when it's obviously more obvious (not to you). No crap he holds on to the ball too long. But he also makes plays out of it. So I don't cry about it like you do, and go out of my way to put the negatives over the positives.

Scarletfire1970
03-18-2009, 08:26 PM
Ever think that Ben wins in the end because Arians says, OK Ben, it's your game. I've done all I can and it ain't working. It is no surprise that Ben flurishes in the hurry up offense where he is calling his own plays. Unfortunately we can't do this the whole game. It isn't good for our defense to be on the field. The problem isn't Ben, it is lack of a strong running game. That is what is missing.

steelcityrules!!
03-18-2009, 08:54 PM
I too critiqued ben over the course of the last two seasons, but the numbers speak for themselves.

and I don't mean TD's or even passing %.
I mean wins
I mean AFCCG's
I mean 19 4th quarter comebacks, being fearless.

kid is money, is more "elite" than all but 2 QB's in the league right now
and thats the douchebags peyton and brady.

SteelCzar76
03-18-2009, 09:29 PM
Add the fact that the run game and play calling (based on their present personel on the field) and Offensive Line, are close to an all time worse (that I've seen or am use to).


So Arians and the O-line which were also part of a World Championship team can be criticised for being both sloppy and inconsistent,...but it's madness to speak of Roethlisberger's own shortcomings which are exactly of the same nature ? You can't have it one baby boy. If your are going to sweep Roethlisbeger's nonsense under the rug and or make excuses for him,..do the same for the Arians and the O-LINE.

Sure they were apart, but name me one poster on any Steelers forum (there are many) that credits the Offensive Line and offensive play calling, for the Steelers making it to the playoffs, getting to the Super Bowl, and winning the game, in the light they would for Ben, besides you of course. You're like one of those fans from another team that looks at the box score, see's Ben's stats, and automatically assumes he's still being carried by a "smashmouth" running game in Pittsburgh. Totally neglecting the football plays he makes to keep the game going.

Anyway, your response makes no sense whatsoever. I'm not sweeping anything under the rug, because there is nothing there, why should I have to for the OL and Arians when it's obviously more obvious (not to you). No crap he holds on to the ball too long. But he also makes plays out of it. So I don't cry about it like you do, and go out of my way to put the negatives over the positives.

My post made no sense ? But i digress and will focus upon this,.....


You're like one of those fans from another team that looks at the box score, see's Ben's stats, and automatically assumes he's still being carried by a "smashmouth" running game in Pittsburgh. Totally neglecting the football plays he makes to keep the game going.

No i rep the STEELERS organization as i have for most of my life,...not one player in particular, and therefore express undue praise for said particular player because i may feel some type of personal connection to them as a human being.

SteelCrazy
03-18-2009, 10:00 PM
[quote]Add the fact that the run game and play calling (based on their present personel on the field) and Offensive Line, are close to an all time worse (that I've seen or am use to).


So Arians and the O-line which were also part of a World Championship team can be criticised for being both sloppy and inconsistent,...but it's madness to speak of Roethlisberger's own shortcomings which are exactly of the same nature ? You can't have it one baby boy. If your are going to sweep Roethlisbeger's nonsense under the rug and or make excuses for him,..do the same for the Arians and the O-LINE.

Sure they were apart, but name me one poster on any Steelers forum (there are many) that credits the Offensive Line and offensive play calling, for the Steelers making it to the playoffs, getting to the Super Bowl, and winning the game, in the light they would for Ben, besides you of course. You're like one of those fans from another team that looks at the box score, see's Ben's stats, and automatically assumes he's still being carried by a "smashmouth" running game in Pittsburgh. Totally neglecting the football plays he makes to keep the game going.

Anyway, your response makes no sense whatsoever. I'm not sweeping anything under the rug, because there is nothing there, why should I have to for the OL and Arians when it's obviously more obvious (not to you). No crap he holds on to the ball too long. But he also makes plays out of it. So I don't cry about it like you do, and go out of my way to put the negatives over the positives.

My post made no sense ? But i digress and will focus upon this,.....


You're like one of those fans from another team that looks at the box score, see's Ben's stats, and automatically assumes he's still being carried by a "smashmouth" running game in Pittsburgh. Totally neglecting the football plays he makes to keep the game going.

No i rep the STEELERS organization as i have for most of my life,...not one player in particular, and therefore express undue praise for said particular player because i may feel some type of personal connection to them as a human being.[/quote:1lx2c6gh]

You rep a team and not any one particular player when giving praise, but when you bring the hammer down it's not the team you rep, you bash Big Ben. Makes little to no sense.

papillon
03-18-2009, 10:21 PM
http://talk.baltimoresun.com/showthread.php?t=190817

Good stuff...some of them even go so far as to say it's because Woodson is racist. :roll:

I also laugh at the "pre-determined" stuff. Woodson and Wilcots agreed on some of them so that blows their "pre-determined just to get viewers" theories.

I agree with Rod. Especially when you evaluate the fact that anyone is expendable based upon production or lack thereof in terms of their specific position.(ie: how well do you do your specific job in comparison to your peers. (as opposed to just simply being part of an exceptional overall Team/organization) This should be no different for QB's.

Though this is "fliud" because Flacco is merely a rookie and can yet evolve into an elite class at his position. But in my opinion there are 4 qb's that are elite. Brady, Manning, Rivers, Brees. (With Matt Ryan hard on their heals.)

Let me see if I have this correct. Brady, Manning, Rivers, Brees and possibly Ryan are elite quarterbacks in the NFL and Ben is not. Okay, so, you're Kevin Colbert and San Diego, New Orleans, Indy, New England and Atlanta come knocking on your door and offer you their quarterback for your 2 time super bowl winning quarterback and you pull the trigger. Is that correct? I'm just trying to determine the parameters here for elite.

Pappy

SteelCzar76
03-18-2009, 10:24 PM
[quote]Add the fact that the run game and play calling (based on their present personel on the field) and Offensive Line, are close to an all time worse (that I've seen or am use to).


So Arians and the O-line which were also part of a World Championship team can be criticised for being both sloppy and inconsistent,...but it's madness to speak of Roethlisberger's own shortcomings which are exactly of the same nature ? You can't have it one baby boy. If your are going to sweep Roethlisbeger's nonsense under the rug and or make excuses for him,..do the same for the Arians and the O-LINE.

Sure they were apart, but name me one poster on any Steelers forum (there are many) that credits the Offensive Line and offensive play calling, for the Steelers making it to the playoffs, getting to the Super Bowl, and winning the game, in the light they would for Ben, besides you of course. You're like one of those fans from another team that looks at the box score, see's Ben's stats, and automatically assumes he's still being carried by a "smashmouth" running game in Pittsburgh. Totally neglecting the football plays he makes to keep the game going.

Anyway, your response makes no sense whatsoever. I'm not sweeping anything under the rug, because there is nothing there, why should I have to for the OL and Arians when it's obviously more obvious (not to you). No crap he holds on to the ball too long. But he also makes plays out of it. So I don't cry about it like you do, and go out of my way to put the negatives over the positives.

My post made no sense ? But i digress and will focus upon this,.....


You're like one of those fans from another team that looks at the box score, see's Ben's stats, and automatically assumes he's still being carried by a "smashmouth" running game in Pittsburgh. Totally neglecting the football plays he makes to keep the game going.

No i rep the STEELERS organization as i have for most of my life,...not one player in particular, and therefore express undue praise for said particular player because i may feel some type of personal connection to them as a human being.

You rep a team and not any one particular player when giving praise, but when you bring the hammer down it's not the team you rep, you bash Big Ben. Makes little to no sense.[/quote:1nm0tgx9]


I do not rage against Ben,...but Ben worship. Consider it "tough love",...meaning it (undue worship) cripples this kid in terms of him becoming one of the best to ever play this game by giving him a sense of complacency.

The thought that "Hey you know what,..i can keep doing just enough to get by. As long as i make a few plays here and there,..my appalachian/rust belt people will still "get my back" even to the point of scapegoating others upon my behalf. And besides,..we're winning,..what's the harm ?"

And that would be doing not only this organization,..but his own legacy an injustice.



By the way,...like your screename. Do i know you from the crazy cougar's site ? :lol: :lol:

SteelCzar76
03-18-2009, 10:26 PM
http://talk.baltimoresun.com/showthread.php?t=190817

Good stuff...some of them even go so far as to say it's because Woodson is racist. :roll:

I also laugh at the "pre-determined" stuff. Woodson and Wilcots agreed on some of them so that blows their "pre-determined just to get viewers" theories.

I agree with Rod. Especially when you evaluate the fact that anyone is expendable based upon production or lack thereof in terms of their specific position.(ie: how well do you do your specific job in comparison to your peers. (as opposed to just simply being part of an exceptional overall Team/organization) This should be no different for QB's.

Though this is "fliud" because Flacco is merely a rookie and can yet evolve into an elite class at his position. But in my opinion there are 4 qb's that are elite. Brady, Manning, Rivers, Brees. (With Matt Ryan hard on their heals.)

Let me see if I have this correct. Brady, Manning, Rivers, Brees and possibly Ryan are elite quarterbacks in the NFL and Ben is not. Okay, so, you're Kevin Colbert and San Diego, New Orleans, Indy, New England and Atlanta come knocking on your door and offer you their quarterback for your 2 time super bowl winning quarterback and you pull the trigger. Is that correct? I'm just trying to determine the parameters here for elite.

Pappy


As i would have in 2004,.....i would take Rivers.

stlrz d
03-18-2009, 10:33 PM
http://talk.baltimoresun.com/showthread.php?t=190817

Good stuff...some of them even go so far as to say it's because Woodson is racist. :roll:

I also laugh at the "pre-determined" stuff. Woodson and Wilcots agreed on some of them so that blows their "pre-determined just to get viewers" theories.

I agree with Rod. Especially when you evaluate the fact that anyone is expendable based upon production or lack thereof in terms of their specific position.(ie: how well do you do your specific job in comparison to your peers. (as opposed to just simply being part of an exceptional overall Team/organization) This should be no different for QB's.

Though this is "fliud" because Flacco is merely a rookie and can yet evolve into an elite class at his position. But in my opinion there are 4 qb's that are elite. Brady, Manning, Rivers, Brees. (With Matt Ryan hard on their heals.)

Let me see if I have this correct. Brady, Manning, Rivers, Brees and possibly Ryan are elite quarterbacks in the NFL and Ben is not. Okay, so, you're Kevin Colbert and San Diego, New Orleans, Indy, New England and Atlanta come knocking on your door and offer you their quarterback for your 2 time super bowl winning quarterback and you pull the trigger. Is that correct? I'm just trying to determine the parameters here for elite.

Pappy


As i would have in 2004,.....i would take Rivers.

Are you a Lendale White fan by chance?

Just running on a hunch. :P

papillon
03-18-2009, 10:33 PM
http://talk.baltimoresun.com/showthread.php?t=190817

Good stuff...some of them even go so far as to say it's because Woodson is racist. :roll:

I also laugh at the "pre-determined" stuff. Woodson and Wilcots agreed on some of them so that blows their "pre-determined just to get viewers" theories.

I agree with Rod. Especially when you evaluate the fact that anyone is expendable based upon production or lack thereof in terms of their specific position.(ie: how well do you do your specific job in comparison to your peers. (as opposed to just simply being part of an exceptional overall Team/organization) This should be no different for QB's.

Though this is "fliud" because Flacco is merely a rookie and can yet evolve into an elite class at his position. But in my opinion there are 4 qb's that are elite. Brady, Manning, Rivers, Brees. (With Matt Ryan hard on their heals.)

Let me see if I have this correct. Brady, Manning, Rivers, Brees and possibly Ryan are elite quarterbacks in the NFL and Ben is not. Okay, so, you're Kevin Colbert and San Diego, New Orleans, Indy, New England and Atlanta come knocking on your door and offer you their quarterback for your 2 time super bowl winning quarterback and you pull the trigger. Is that correct? I'm just trying to determine the parameters here for elite.

Pappy


As i would have in 2004,.....i would take Rivers.

It is now 2009 and you'd trade Ben for Rivers, Brees, Ryan, Manning or Brady? That's the question.

Pappy

SteelCzar76
03-18-2009, 10:43 PM
http://talk.baltimoresun.com/showthread.php?t=190817

Good stuff...some of them even go so far as to say it's because Woodson is racist. :roll:

I also laugh at the "pre-determined" stuff. Woodson and Wilcots agreed on some of them so that blows their "pre-determined just to get viewers" theories.

I agree with Rod. Especially when you evaluate the fact that anyone is expendable based upon production or lack thereof in terms of their specific position.(ie: how well do you do your specific job in comparison to your peers. (as opposed to just simply being part of an exceptional overall Team/organization) This should be no different for QB's.

Though this is "fliud" because Flacco is merely a rookie and can yet evolve into an elite class at his position. But in my opinion there are 4 qb's that are elite. Brady, Manning, Rivers, Brees. (With Matt Ryan hard on their heals.)

Let me see if I have this correct. Brady, Manning, Rivers, Brees and possibly Ryan are elite quarterbacks in the NFL and Ben is not. Okay, so, you're Kevin Colbert and San Diego, New Orleans, Indy, New England and Atlanta come knocking on your door and offer you their quarterback for your 2 time super bowl winning quarterback and you pull the trigger. Is that correct? I'm just trying to determine the parameters here for elite.

Pappy


As i would have in 2004,.....i would take Rivers.

It is now 2009 and you'd trade Ben for Rivers, Brees, Ryan, Manning or Brady? That's the question.

Pappy

Yes i would PAP. Philip with Hines, Heath, Tone and a defense coached by D@ck Lebeau anywhere within the top five,.. would not only be something that no team in the league could overcome,...but it would be hard for them to even compete against.

papillon
03-18-2009, 10:48 PM
Yes i would PAP. Philip with Hines, Heath, Tone and a defense coached by D@ck Lebeau anywhere within the top five,.. would not only be something that no team in the league could overcome,...but it would be hard for them to even compete against.

So, the 9 pro bowlers he (Rivers) played with a couple years ago weren't enough, but Hines (not a pro bowler this year), Heath (not a pro bowler this year) and Santonio (not a pro bowler this year) would make Rivers unstoppable? What about the other QBs you listed? Would you trade Ben right now for them?

Pappy

NKySteeler
03-18-2009, 10:52 PM
Gotta hate the off-season.... Dillusional attitudes are all over the place...

stlrz d
03-18-2009, 10:52 PM
Wow. Just wow....

feltdizz
03-18-2009, 10:55 PM
why even entertain this czar idiot? He is a troll...

I can't take anyone serious when they say they would trade Ben for Rivers..

Czar said he would toss a 2 SB ring winning QB with 19 4th qtr wins and the most wins EVER by a QB in 5 years....

for Rivers or Brees? because they have stats? GTFOH...

next!

feltdizz
03-18-2009, 10:56 PM
Wow. Just wow....

dude just wants attention... next he will say he would fire Tomlin for Schottenheimer...

but I will say Woodsen saying Flacco is tradeable is just as dumb...
people will do anything to get attention right now..

papillon
03-18-2009, 11:00 PM
why even entertain this czar idiot? He is a troll...

I can't take anyone serious when they say they would trade Ben for Rivers..

Czar said he would toss a 2 SB ring winning QB with 19 4th qtr wins and the most wins EVER by a QB in 5 years....

for Rivers or Brees? because they have stats? GTFOH...

next!

Just trying to establish the parameters for an elite quarterback. :stirpot It's the off season and we have to talk about something. :HeadBanger

Pappy

feltdizz
03-18-2009, 11:06 PM
why even entertain this czar idiot? He is a troll...

I can't take anyone serious when they say they would trade Ben for Rivers..

Czar said he would toss a 2 SB ring winning QB with 19 4th qtr wins and the most wins EVER by a QB in 5 years....

for Rivers or Brees? because they have stats? GTFOH...

next!

Just trying to establish the parameters for an elite quarterback. :stirpot It's the off season and we have to talk about something. :HeadBanger

I hear you Pap... funny thing is during the season a few friends who hate Ben would always text me when we fell behind in the 4th quarter..

I swear I must have text "here we go.." on our last drive about 6 times this year...
and they never replied after the game was over.

Pappy

Chadman
03-18-2009, 11:55 PM
But%20in%20my%20opinion%20there%20are%204%20qb's%2 0that%20are%20elite.%20Brady,%20Manning,%20Rivers, %20Brees.%20(With%20Matt%20Ryan%20hard%20on%20thei r%20heals.)

Curious- why wouldn't Donovan McNabb & Kurt Warner rank as elite?

SteelCzar76
03-19-2009, 02:21 AM
why even entertain this czar idiot? He is a troll...

I can't take anyone serious when they say they would trade Ben for Rivers..

Czar said he would toss a 2 SB ring winning QB with 19 4th qtr wins and the most wins EVER by a QB in 5 years....

for Rivers or Brees? because they have stats? GTFOH...

next!


So,..because i do not share your particular brand of "Hero Worship",....i am and idiot or Troll ? Did i touch a nerve ? You'll have to do better Felton,.....

SteelCzar76
03-19-2009, 02:25 AM
So, the 9 pro bowlers he (Rivers) played with a couple years ago weren't enough, but Hines (not a pro bowler this year), Heath (not a pro bowler this year) and Santonio (not a pro bowler this year) would make Rivers unstoppable? What about the other QBs you listed? Would you trade Ben right now for them?

Pappy

Brady and Manning,...yes.

SteelCzar76
03-19-2009, 02:28 AM
But%20in%20my%20opinion%20there%20are%204%20qb's%2 0that%20are%20elite.%20Brady,%20Manning,%20Rivers, %20Brees.%20(With%20Matt%20Ryan%20hard%20on%20thei r%20heals.)

Curious- why wouldn't Donovan McNabb & Kurt Warner rank as elite?


One word Chad,.....Inconsistent.

Chadman
03-19-2009, 03:00 AM
But%20in%20my%20opinion%20there%20are%204%20qb's%2 0that%20are%20elite.%20Brady,%20Manning,%20Rivers, %20Brees.%20(With%20Matt%20Ryan%20hard%20on%20thei r%20heals.)

Curious- why wouldn't Donovan McNabb & Kurt Warner rank as elite?


One word Chad,.....Inconsistent.

A bit harsh saying McNabb isn't consistant- isn't it? When you consider you have Brees as elite-

2001-
McNabb Passer rating = 84.3 25TD 12INT PLAYOFFS
Brees Passer Rating = 94.8 1TD 0INT NO PLAYOFFS

2002-
McNabb Passer Rating = 86.0 17TD 6INT PLAYOFFS
Brees Passer Rating = 76.9 17TD 16INT NO PLAYOFFS

2003-
McNabb Passer Rating = 79.6 16TD 11INT PLAYOFFS
Brees Passer Rating = 67.5 11TD 15INT NO PLAYOFFS

2004-
McNabb Passer Rating = 104.7 31TD 8INT PLAYOFFS
Brees Passer Rating = 104.8 27TD 7INT PLAYOFFS

2005-
McNabb Passer Rating = 85.0 16TD 9INT NO PLAYOFFS
Brees Passer Rating = 89.2 24TD 15INT NO PLAYOFFS

2006-
McNabb Passer Rating = 95.5 18TD 6INT PLAYOFFS
Brees Passer Rating = 96.2 26TD 11INT PLAYOFFS

2007-
McNabb Passer Rating = 89.9 19TD 7INT NO PLAYOFFS
Brees Pass Rating = 89.4 28TD 18INT NO PLAYOFFS

2008-
McNabb Passer Rating = 86.4 23TD 11INT PLAYOFFS
Brees Passer Rating = 96.2 34TD 17INT NO PLAYOFFS

Surely, looking at that, McNabb is AT LEAST as consistant as Brees- while getting his team further into the post season than Brees?

Scarletfire1970
03-19-2009, 05:13 AM
Yes i would PAP. Philip with Hines, Heath, Tone and a defense coached by D@ck Lebeau anywhere within the top five,.. would not only be something that no team in the league could overcome,...but it would be hard for them to even compete against.[/quote]

Rivers behind this line would suck.

Did you ever post on the Trib board? I swear you sound like teecee and a few others there.

Simply unbelievable. If Ben can't win you over after that last SB performance, he never will. Have a nice 10 plus years wishing the Steelers would have drafted another QB while the rest of us enjoy watching a legend in the making.

ramblinjim
03-19-2009, 08:02 AM
I think at this point in his career, anyone that says Ben isn't elite isn't worth arguing with. So I'm not going to bother.

On the subject at hand, I would LOVE for the Ravens to trade Flacco because it looks like he is going to be a d@mn good quarterback in this league and we're going to have to compete against him. So Ravens, please trade Joe Flacco to an NFC team that we won't play often.

WoodleyofTroy
03-19-2009, 08:47 AM
Rivers behind this line would suck.

Did you ever post on the Trib board? I swear you sound like teecee and a few others there.

Simply unbelievable. If Ben can't win you over after that last SB performance, he never will. Have a nice 10 plus years wishing the Steelers would have drafted another QB while the rest of us enjoy watching a legend in the making.

He posted on the trib board as the same name he has now. Czarsalad.

pfelix73
03-19-2009, 09:39 AM
McNabb IS consistent. Afterall, after each year goes by, he still doesn't have a Lombardi Trophy. Now that's consistent.

Northern_Blitz
03-19-2009, 09:53 AM
http://talk.baltimoresun.com/showthread.php?t=190817

Good stuff...some of them even go so far as to say it's because Woodson is racist. :roll:

I also laugh at the "pre-determined" stuff. Woodson and Wilcots agreed on some of them so that blows their "pre-determined just to get viewers" theories.

I agree with Rod. Especially when you evaluate the fact that anyone is expendable based upon production or lack thereof in terms of their specific position.(ie: how well do you do your specific job in comparison to your peers. (as opposed to just simply being part of an exceptional overall Team/organization) This should be no different for QB's.

Though this is "fliud" because Flacco is merely a rookie and can yet evolve into an elite class at his position. But in my opinion there are 4 qb's that are elite. Brady, Manning, Rivers, Brees. (With Matt Ryan hard on their heals.)

Let me see if I have this correct. Brady, Manning, Rivers, Brees and possibly Ryan are elite quarterbacks in the NFL and Ben is not. Okay, so, you're Kevin Colbert and San Diego, New Orleans, Indy, New England and Atlanta come knocking on your door and offer you their quarterback for your 2 time super bowl winning quarterback and you pull the trigger. Is that correct? I'm just trying to determine the parameters here for elite.

Pappy


As i would have in 2004,.....i would take Rivers.

So what you're really saying is that your position on Ben is really just trying to justify your position in 2004.

It's not that you were wrong then when you thought Rivers was better than Ben. It's just that Rivers is is a harder situation and Ben's a product of the system. I mean, Ben has the best RB and 2nd best TE in the league, not to mention an offensive guru for a head coach...oh, wait, that's not Ben.

SteelBucks
03-19-2009, 10:16 AM
As things stand now the latter is not the case. He's a good kid with potential,..but he has a poor work ethic and i'm not sure that he really has a high football IQ.These things prevent him from being the Qb that his fans would like for the world to believe that he currently is in my opinion.

:wft

steeler_fan_in_t.o.
03-19-2009, 11:12 AM
So, Rivers would be a huge stud behind this O line but Ben would receive no benefits from playing with the best RB of this era? A RB who can take a short swing pass all the way at any given time which gives the QB the stat of a 50 yard TD pass when all he did was throw it 5 yards? How about the ultimate TE, easily one of the top of this era?

How about Ds? Aside from this season when Merriman went down, SD has consistently had a top D the past five years.

How about the benfit of playing in the AFC West with the easily sked and the warm weather? Wouldn't it be much easier to be consistent if you play most of your games in 75 degree weather instead of rain and snow? Play KC, Oakland and Denver Ds twice a year instead of the Ravens?

Hmmm.....to me it sounds more like your buddy Phil is merely a game manager.

feltdizz
03-19-2009, 11:20 AM
why even entertain this czar idiot? He is a troll...

I can't take anyone serious when they say they would trade Ben for Rivers..

Czar said he would toss a 2 SB ring winning QB with 19 4th qtr wins and the most wins EVER by a QB in 5 years....

for Rivers or Brees? because they have stats? GTFOH...

next!



So,..because i do not share your particular brand of "Hero Worship",....i am and idiot or Troll ? Did i touch a nerve ? You'll have to do better Felton,.....

actually, you have to do better.... or better yet, Brees, Manning, Matt Ryan etc.. have to do better.

Ben has rings... LOL!!! Keep up the fight though.. looks like you are winning the :Blah

:owned

SteelCzar76
03-19-2009, 01:22 PM
But%20in%20my%20opinion%20there%20are%204%20qb's%2 0that%20are%20elite.%20Brady,%20Manning,%20Rivers, %20Brees.%20(With%20Matt%20Ryan%20hard%20on%20thei r%20heals.)

Curious- why wouldn't Donovan McNabb & Kurt Warner rank as elite?


One word Chad,.....Inconsistent.

A bit harsh saying McNabb isn't consistant- isn't it? When you consider you have Brees as elite-

2001-
McNabb Passer rating = 84.3 25TD 12INT PLAYOFFS
Brees Passer Rating = 94.8 1TD 0INT NO PLAYOFFS

2002-
McNabb Passer Rating = 86.0 17TD 6INT PLAYOFFS
Brees Passer Rating = 76.9 17TD 16INT NO PLAYOFFS

2003-
McNabb Passer Rating = 79.6 16TD 11INT PLAYOFFS
Brees Passer Rating = 67.5 11TD 15INT NO PLAYOFFS

2004-
McNabb Passer Rating = 104.7 31TD 8INT PLAYOFFS
Brees Passer Rating = 104.8 27TD 7INT PLAYOFFS

2005-
McNabb Passer Rating = 85.0 16TD 9INT NO PLAYOFFS
Brees Passer Rating = 89.2 24TD 15INT NO PLAYOFFS

2006-
McNabb Passer Rating = 95.5 18TD 6INT PLAYOFFS
Brees Passer Rating = 96.2 26TD 11INT PLAYOFFS

2007-
McNabb Passer Rating = 89.9 19TD 7INT NO PLAYOFFS
Brees Pass Rating = 89.4 28TD 18INT NO PLAYOFFS

2008-
McNabb Passer Rating = 86.4 23TD 11INT PLAYOFFS
Brees Passer Rating = 96.2 34TD 17INT NO PLAYOFFS

Surely, looking at that, McNabb is AT LEAST as consistant as Brees- while getting his team further into the post season than Brees?


Excellent post and a very good point Chad. But in Brees's defense their numbers are this comparable and yet Bree's has not had the same stability in terms of playing with the same organization for the duration of his career. (continuity or lack thereof)

SteelCzar76
03-19-2009, 01:25 PM
Rivers behind this line would suck.

Did you ever post on the Trib board? I swear you sound like teecee and a few others there.

Simply unbelievable. If Ben can't win you over after that last SB performance, he never will. Have a nice 10 plus years wishing the Steelers would have drafted another QB while the rest of us enjoy watching a legend in the making.

He posted on the trib board as the same name he has now. Czarsalad.

I've never posted on the Trib board. Tell me though,..were there many posters there with the same lack of maturity as you and Felton ?

WoodleyofTroy
03-19-2009, 01:29 PM
Rivers behind this line would suck.

Did you ever post on the Trib board? I swear you sound like teecee and a few others there.

Simply unbelievable. If Ben can't win you over after that last SB performance, he never will. Have a nice 10 plus years wishing the Steelers would have drafted another QB while the rest of us enjoy watching a legend in the making.

He posted on the trib board as the same name he has now. Czarsalad.

I've never posted on the Trib board. Tell me though,..were there many posters there with the same lack of maturity as you and Felton ?

Says the guy who gets banned from message boards.

SteelCzar76
03-19-2009, 01:40 PM
Rivers behind this line would suck.

Did you ever post on the Trib board? I swear you sound like teecee and a few others there.

Simply unbelievable. If Ben can't win you over after that last SB performance, he never will. Have a nice 10 plus years wishing the Steelers would have drafted another QB while the rest of us enjoy watching a legend in the making.

He posted on the trib board as the same name he has now. Czarsalad.

I've never posted on the Trib board. Tell me though,..were there many posters there with the same lack of maturity as you and Felton ?

Says the guy who gets banned from message boards.

Says the guy whom got banned from one because,... 1: he would not placate to a jilted Cougar and her goons. And 2: Because i will always stay true to my own beliefs as oppossed to following the herd,...even if that means drawing the ire of children whom would most certainly conduct themselves with more respect in real life in my presence than they would behind the anonymity of a computer screen such as yourself.

WoodleyofTroy
03-19-2009, 01:57 PM
Rivers behind this line would suck.

Did you ever post on the Trib board? I swear you sound like teecee and a few others there.

Simply unbelievable. If Ben can't win you over after that last SB performance, he never will. Have a nice 10 plus years wishing the Steelers would have drafted another QB while the rest of us enjoy watching a legend in the making.

He posted on the trib board as the same name he has now. Czarsalad.

I've never posted on the Trib board. Tell me though,..were there many posters there with the same lack of maturity as you and Felton ?

Says the guy who gets banned from message boards.

Says the guy whom got banned from one because,... 1: he would not placate to a jilted Cougar and her goons. And 2: Because i will always stay true to my own beliefs as oppossed to following the herd,...even if that means drawing the ire of children whom would most certainly conduct themselves with more respect in real life in my presence than they would behind the anonymity of a computer screen such as yourself.

"Stay true" meaning no matter how wrong your prediction was, you still find a way to be right, even when it makes you look misinformed and lacking common sense.

-You think Mendenhall is a bum because he is a Big 10 Running back.
-You think Timmons is a bust because he comes from Florida State.

All you go on is "limbs". Like the following junk:
"Part of my "Science" so to speak in terms of determining preference and or compatibility between players and organizations based upon the date of an organization's inception. For instance,... the Steelers played their first game as the Steelers at Forbes field on 9/8/1940,...so i would run that with prospective players and or coaches to get a sense of the nature of will it be a good fit or Not. That is,...if one,.. believed in that sort of thing ?"

-You fall in love with one guy at each position and if the Steelers don't take them, you'll dislike the guy they did. Just you like you saying this Cornerback class is weak and you don't want any, then throw a paragraph in there about Victor Harris. The Steelers draft someone else, you'll hate him the rest of his career.

stlrz d
03-19-2009, 02:06 PM
What board is all this from?

SteelCzar76
03-19-2009, 02:21 PM
"Stay true" meaning no matter how wrong your prediction was, you still find a way to be right, even when it makes you look misinformed and lacking common sense.

From your perspective,..which is inherently in opposition to me because i do not worship Roethlisberger as you do.


-You think Mendenhall is a bum because he is a Big 10 Running back.
-You think Timmons is a bust because he comes from Florida State.

No,..i said Mendenhall was "soft" even prior to him being drafted. And the fact that he was indeed a Big Ten back did nothing to impress me either.

I wasn't unimpressed with Timmons "Because he went to Florida State",...i was and remain anti Timmons because he is too small to play inside in a 3-4 IMO. And i didn't like the pick for him at outside Backer,..as i considered him a "Dungy style Colts" backer and did not fit our system.


All you go on is "limbs". Like the following junk:
"Part of my "Science" so to speak in terms of determining preference and or compatibility between players and organizations based upon the date of an organization's inception. For instance,... the Steelers played their first game as the Steelers at Forbes field on 9/8/1940,...so i would run that with prospective players and or coaches to get a sense of the nature of will it be a good fit or Not. That is,...if one,.. believed in that sort of thing ?"

Again,..difference in perspective and or opinion in terms of what is "Junk".


-You fall in love with one guy at each position and if the Steelers don't take them, you'll dislike the guy they did. Just you like you saying this Cornerback class is weak and you don't want any, then throw a paragraph in there about Victor Harris. The Steelers draft someone else, you'll hate him the rest of his career.


At what point did i say that i did not want a corner ? If memory serves me correctly i stated that i didn't want any of this years class in the first with the possible exceptions of Jenkins whom will not fall that far,..or perhaps Sean Smith.

Miss me with the grabazz kid,..you have your opinions and i have mine,...as everyone is entitled to. You do realize that everyone of this world is not going to agree with your own personal doctrines or beliefs ? :lol:

WoodleyofTroy
03-19-2009, 02:44 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by bhaarat316
I have disagree on Mendy being overated in the Big Ten, I know big Ten isn't what it used to be. But telling him he is overrated, just because he cursed the teams in the Big Ten, is saying the same thing for Shon Greene. Is Shon Greene overrated then?


02-11-2009, 04:37 PM #1853
SteelCzar76
Rookie

Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 71
Reputation: 10
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Perhaps it's just me,..but i'm given pause at the mere mention of a RB from the Big Ten. This is probably a case of me "generalizing" and not being fair enough,.(Much like disregard for Florida QB's and receivers),..but in truth it's my opinion based upon the backs they put into the league.

Sure,..every now and then you get a Franco Harris,.Eddie George (or Larry Johnson if he was not a childish pr#ck.),...but for the most part you end up with the Ki janna Carters.

Mendy confirmed this belief with me by not only playing "soft" throughout camp and preseason,..but by at one point wanting to quit the game he has been playing since childhood because he didn't "get along" with his college coaches. And by having to be sat down by our staff and explained to about "all of the bad widdle things the wavens would say to hurt his feelwings." LOL

Followed by then talking trash via text,..only to be injured on a routine tackle. (A tackle by Ray,..but average nontheless.)

As far as Greene,..perhaps he goes on to not only live up to expectations, but exceed them,..but if i were a GM,....i wouldn't roll the dice on that too early.(Though i like the kid's heart) "

WoodleyofTroy
03-19-2009, 02:49 PM
SteelCzar76
Rookie
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 71
Reputation: 10


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Pat White,....dare i say "Joe Montana with more athleticism".(given a fair shot)

Or was that over the top ? Nah,..this kid is the real deal,...you can't argue with production amongst one's peers, along the "will", intellect and understanding to maximize such abilities at the pro level.


---------------








And then when Pat White is no Montana, you'll go out of your way of defending him, because he was "your" pick. lol I like how you go overboard when trying to hype up one of "your" players.

feltdizz
03-19-2009, 03:31 PM
Rivers behind this line would suck.

Did you ever post on the Trib board? I swear you sound like teecee and a few others there.

Simply unbelievable. If Ben can't win you over after that last SB performance, he never will. Have a nice 10 plus years wishing the Steelers would have drafted another QB while the rest of us enjoy watching a legend in the making.

He posted on the trib board as the same name he has now. Czarsalad.

I've never posted on the Trib board. Tell me though,..were there many posters there with the same lack of maturity as you and Felton ?

If you are going to use my birth name please use the whole thing...

Felton L. Martin III

only an immature person would think using a person's birth name would hit a nerve..

carry on... and please remember to use the III

SteelCzar76
03-19-2009, 03:52 PM
And then when Pat White is no Montana, you'll go out of your way of defending him, because he was "your" pick. lol I like how you go overboard when trying to hype up one of "your" players.


:lol: You most certainly get a high grade for effort kid. But your "wasting rounds",..in terms of what does this (or anything else you posted from another site that i am a member of) prove besides my point that i stand firm concerning what i believe ? Now,..unlike many,... that does not make me inflexible and or reactionary towards others whom might not agree. We can simply agree to disagree,..and allow things to play out as they will.

Or perhaps your are attempting to convey that you have the right to support Roethlisberger as vehemently as i or anyone else can in terms of other players ? And if that is the case,..so be it,..when did i ever insult you because of as much ?

Again,......perspective homie.

SteelCzar76
03-19-2009, 03:55 PM
Rivers behind this line would suck.

Did you ever post on the Trib board? I swear you sound like teecee and a few others there.

Simply unbelievable. If Ben can't win you over after that last SB performance, he never will. Have a nice 10 plus years wishing the Steelers would have drafted another QB while the rest of us enjoy watching a legend in the making.

He posted on the trib board as the same name he has now. Czarsalad.

I've never posted on the Trib board. Tell me though,..were there many posters there with the same lack of maturity as you and Felton ?

If you are going to use my birth name please use the whole thing...

Felton L. Martin III

only an immature person would think using a person's birth name would hit a nerve..

carry on... and please remember to use the III


Actually i thought your screename was a play upon "Felt this". And,..you just kinda come off as a Felton. But it's good,...i stand corrected, Felton L. Martin III :lol: :lol: :lol:

NorthCoast
03-19-2009, 08:44 PM
I mean 19 4th quarter comebacks, being fearless.
kid is money, is more "elite" than all but 2 QB's in the league right now
and thats the douchebags peyton and brady.

That says it all. Regardless of what Ben or the team has done for 50 minutes, with the game on the line, and a single QB mistake sends us home losers, Ben has shown time and again he can get it done. Fortunately the HC gets it: "style points get you nothing".

feltdizz
03-19-2009, 10:02 PM
Is Peyton Manning really elite?
I know he is damn near unstoppable in the regular season... he puts up great stats

But if you had to put together playoff highlights of Big Ben and Peyton Manning I feel like Ben's DVD would be twice as long.. even though his career has been half as long as Mannings...