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SteelCzar76
03-12-2009, 06:21 PM
Is anyone here aware as to whether or not we sent representatives to Pat White's Pro Day work out ?

SteelCzar76
03-12-2009, 06:36 PM
Nevermind,....just saw coach Tomlin there on NFL network.

WoodleyofTroy
03-12-2009, 06:46 PM
Did he run some routes?

SteelCzar76
03-12-2009, 06:52 PM
Did he run some routes?


No, he said that he would run routes upon request,....but none of the 25 teams that showed up did so.

But he reportedly threw exceptionally well.(again)

RuthlessBurgher
03-12-2009, 07:11 PM
Did he run some routes?


No, he said that he would run routes upon request,....but none of the 25 teams that showed up did so.

But he reportedly threw exceptionally well.(again)

Apparently, his coach announced to everyone there that he would not be running routes right from the onset of the workout. Then afterwards, White says in an interview that he didn't run routes because none of the teams asked him to. Pretty disingenuous if you ask me.

SteelCzar76
03-12-2009, 07:25 PM
Did he run some routes?


No, he said that he would run routes upon request,....but none of the 25 teams that showed up did so.

But he reportedly threw exceptionally well.(again)

Apparently, his coach announced to everyone there that he would not be running routes right from the onset of the workout. Then afterwards, White says in an interview that he didn't run routes because none of the teams asked him to. Pretty disingenuous if you ask me.


I would'nt say disingenuous exactly,....this Kid's character is exceptional. I'm pretty high on him, and i think it's a shame that he's being knocked simply because of his lack of height and weight. He's outperformed any of the other QB prospects,.(Stafford and even my boy Sanchez included) and he's even smarter, more accurate and throws a better ball than our Starter did coming out of college.

I won't knock him for having the courage to stand behind what he believes in.(Himself and his ability to play the position)

Chadman
03-12-2009, 08:02 PM
Hmmmm......

Tomlin being there means the interest must be genuine....

Do the Steelers take him? And if yes- where?

SteelCzar76
03-12-2009, 08:38 PM
Hmmmm......

Tomlin being there means the interest must be genuine....

Do the Steelers take him? And if yes- where?

I'd say in the second after striking nearly the same deal we did to move up for Troy to snag Rey-Rey (Maualuga) in the 1st as Potsie's heir apparent. Because we'd still have the comp pick in the 3rd with which we could take Victor Harris. And then finish off the Draft with OG/OT Cornelius lewis of Tenn State and DT/DE Zach Potter of NE.(Or Rulon Davis of Cal in place of Potter)

I'm sure that the Roethlisberger "enablers" whom blow the O-line's shortcomings far out of proportion to make excuses for his inconsistency would hate for this to unfold as they want at least 3 O-lineman this year,....but i think these players would compliment our current roster quite well. (As we are not "rebuilding")

But hey,..that's just my opinion,....

feltdizz
03-12-2009, 08:43 PM
Nevermind,....just saw coach Tomlin there on NFL network.

why would we take Pat White? Seriously... he is decent but we have Dixon and I just don't see where he fits...

He is fast as hell but is he going to play a slash role or straight QB?

RuthlessBurgher
03-12-2009, 08:47 PM
Did he run some routes?


No, he said that he would run routes upon request,....but none of the 25 teams that showed up did so.

But he reportedly threw exceptionally well.(again)

Apparently, his coach announced to everyone there that he would not be running routes right from the onset of the workout. Then afterwards, White says in an interview that he didn't run routes because none of the teams asked him to. Pretty disingenuous if you ask me.


I would'nt say disingenuous exactly,....this Kid's character is exceptional. I'm pretty high on him, and i think it's a shame that he's being knocked simply because of his lack of height and weight. He's outperformed any of the other QB prospects,.(Stafford and even my boy Sanchez included) and he's even smarter, more accurate and throws a better ball than our Starter did coming out of college.

I won't knock him for having the courage to stand behind what he believes in.(Himself and his ability to play the position)

The courage to stand behind what he believes in? If he only wants to play QB, then just say so already. Stop stringing everyone along who thinks he should be a WR instead.

I think the only reason he hasn't said it yet, is because he wants to be a 1st day draft pick. Because of his versatility, a team may take him in the 2nd round. But if he comes out and says he only wants to be considered a QB, then he may not get taken until the middle of day two.

SteelCzar76
03-12-2009, 09:06 PM
Did he run some routes?


No, he said that he would run routes upon request,....but none of the 25 teams that showed up did so.

But he reportedly threw exceptionally well.(again)

Apparently, his coach announced to everyone there that he would not be running routes right from the onset of the workout. Then afterwards, White says in an interview that he didn't run routes because none of the teams asked him to. Pretty disingenuous if you ask me.


I would'nt say disingenuous exactly,....this Kid's character is exceptional. I'm pretty high on him, and i think it's a shame that he's being knocked simply because of his lack of height and weight. He's outperformed any of the other QB prospects,.(Stafford and even my boy Sanchez included) and he's even smarter, more accurate and throws a better ball than our Starter did coming out of college.

I won't knock him for having the courage to stand behind what he believes in.(Himself and his ability to play the position)

The courage to stand behind what he believes in? If he only wants to play QB, then just say so already. Stop stringing everyone along who thinks he should be a WR instead.

I think the only reason he hasn't said it yet, is because he wants to be a 1st day draft pick. Because of his versatility, a team may take him in the 2nd round. But if he comes out and says he only wants to be considered a QB, then he may not get taken until the middle of day two.


I understand your logic in terms of as to why he's not flat out saying "I'm a QB". But i think that it is more a matter of him saying "I will most certainly do whatever it takes to play,..but don't forget, i'm more than just an Athlete,...i'm actaully a damn good QB"

And i have no doubt that he would work hard to perform very well at slot/return specialist if asked of him by our coaching staff as he comes from a "Steeler Family". Because there is no question that he has the talent, competitive drive and intelligence to do so.

SteelCzar76
03-12-2009, 09:12 PM
Nevermind,....just saw coach Tomlin there on NFL network.

why would we take Pat White? Seriously... he is decent but we have Dixon and I just don't see where he fits...

He is fast as hell but is he going to play a slash role or straight QB?


He has the tremendous athletic ability, heart and mental makeup to play receiver,....but he also has the added dimension of actually being a considerable threat as a passer.

Whereas Dixon is simply just relatively athletic with very sub par ability in terms of throwing the football and or playing the position of QB.

steelcityrules!!
03-12-2009, 09:52 PM
as a mountaineer myself and big fan of pat white, i hope he gets a chance to prove to the naysayers that he's a legit passing QB. I think he'll go in the mid to late 2nd round to a team like miami or minnesota. I also think he's 3 times the QB of dennis dixon, but that really doesn't matter as far as our QB situation is concerned. We need to sign leftwich as an experienced, relatively young, proven winner to back up ben.

I'd love to have a winner like pat on our squad, but it is the least of our needs right now. maybe after he said publicly that he wants to don the black and gold, tomlin went down to chat and get the scoop, but not holding my breath for sure.

BigBen2112
03-12-2009, 10:20 PM
Nevermind,....just saw coach Tomlin there on NFL network.

why would we take Pat White? Seriously... he is decent but we have Dixon and I just don't see where he fits...

He is fast as hell but is he going to play a slash role or straight QB?


He has the tremendous athletic ability, heart and mental makeup to play receiver,....but he also has the added dimension of actually being a considerable threat as a passer.

Whereas Dixon is simply just relatively athletic with very sub par ability in terms of throwing the football and or playing the position of QB.

Where do you get your information?

Dixon's completion percentage was just as good as Whites with a similar amount of passes attempted...and actually more per season on average as a starter. Their yards per pass attempt are nearly identical...and Dennis Dixon has better overall size and similar arm-strength. Oh and who played against better competition?

I have no problem with people talking about selecting Pat White but...good god. Dennis Dixon was a 5th round pick and you want to take White in the 2nd never having seen him actually play WR...but you say that he has the makeup to play WR.

Dang.

Flasteel
03-12-2009, 11:17 PM
Hmmmm......

Tomlin being there means the interest must be genuine....

Do the Steelers take him? And if yes- where?

I'd say in the second after striking nearly the same deal we did to move up for Troy to snag Rey-Rey (Maualuga) in the 1st as Potsie's heir apparent. Because we'd still have the comp pick in the 3rd with which we could take Victor Harris. And then finish off the Draft with OG/OT Cornelius lewis of Tenn State and DT/DE Zach Potter of NE.(Or Rulon Davis of Cal in place of Potter)

I'm sure that the Roethlisberger "enablers" whom blow the O-line's shortcomings far out of proportion to make excuses for his inconsistency would hate for this to unfold as they want at least 3 O-lineman this year,....but i think these players would compliment our current roster quite well. (As we are not "rebuilding")

But hey,..that's just my opinion,....

The Roethlisberger enablers? Just what are any of us supposedly enabling him to do? Lead us to two championships in four years?

Good God Czar, it's one thing to admit that Ben has room for growth, but if you don't believe that he's among the top three or four quarterbacks in the league then you need to step away from the pipe. Our line did play better down the stretch but don't discount their poor pass protection over the past couple of seasons or the fact that we have ignored both lines at the top of the draft this entire friggin' millenium.

Burning a second round pick on a back-up quarterback is retarded enough to begin with. Considering we have Dixon and apparently will be once again choosing between Batch and Lefty...well what's worse than retarded?

If the guy had proven himself to be a multi-dimensional threat or could return punts, you could sell me on the idea. Since that is clearly not the case, there is no way I'd be happy with selecting him anywhere near the top of the draft.

calmkiller
03-12-2009, 11:20 PM
Pat White is a winner plain and simple. All he did was win for FOUR seasons. Before Dixons last year I had never heard of him, honestly. Maybe it was just me ignoring the horrible jersey's they wear but Pat did nothing but win. That is the best quality in a QB I could ask for.

And why does it have to be White that plays WR. Why not make him the Back up QB and turn Dixon into the WR. It works both ways.

WoodleyofTroy
03-12-2009, 11:26 PM
Pat White is a winner plain and simple. All he did was win for FOUR seasons. Before Dixons last year I had never heard of him, honestly. Maybe it was just me ignoring the horrible jersey's they wear but Pat did nothing but win. That is the best quality in a QB I could ask for.

And why does it have to be White that plays WR. Why not make him the Back up QB and turn Dixon into the WR. It works both ways.

Because we don't need a 2nd/3rd round QB. That's why. I officially say "next" to Pat White.

As for Dixon. I'd compare him exactly to Pat White in terms of production, talent, and the ability just to win, in College.

BigBen2112
03-12-2009, 11:27 PM
Hmmmm......

Tomlin being there means the interest must be genuine....

Do the Steelers take him? And if yes- where?

I'd say in the second after striking nearly the same deal we did to move up for Troy to snag Rey-Rey (Maualuga) in the 1st as Potsie's heir apparent. Because we'd still have the comp pick in the 3rd with which we could take Victor Harris. And then finish off the Draft with OG/OT Cornelius lewis of Tenn State and DT/DE Zach Potter of NE.(Or Rulon Davis of Cal in place of Potter)

I'm sure that the Roethlisberger "enablers" whom blow the O-line's shortcomings far out of proportion to make excuses for his inconsistency would hate for this to unfold as they want at least 3 O-lineman this year,....but i think these players would compliment our current roster quite well. (As we are not "rebuilding")

But hey,..that's just my opinion,....

The Roethlisberger enablers? Just what are any of us supposedly enabling him to do? Lead us to two championships in four years?

Good God Czar, it's one thing to admit that Ben has room for growth, but if you don't believe that he's among the top three or four quarterbacks in the league then you need to step away from the pipe. Our line did play better down the stretch but don't discount their poor pass protection over the past couple of seasons or the fact that we have ignored both lines at the top of the draft this entire friggin' millenium.

Burning a second round pick on a back-up quarterback is retarded enough to begin with. Considering we have Dixon and apparently will be once again choosing between Batch and Lefty...well what's worse than retarded?

If the guy had proven himself to be a multi-dimensional threat or could return punts, you could sell me on the idea. Since that is clearly not the case, there is no way I'd be happy with selecting him anywhere near the top of the draft.

Exactly.

Flasteel
03-12-2009, 11:29 PM
Pat White is a winner plain and simple. All he did was win for FOUR seasons. Before Dixons last year I had never heard of him, honestly. Maybe it was just me ignoring the horrible jersey's they wear but Pat did nothing but win. That is the best quality in a QB I could ask for.

And why does it have to be White that plays WR. Why not make him the Back up QB and turn Dixon into the WR. It works both ways.

Hey CK, you're the one who's got him listed as a slash in your wish list. :lol:

I'm not doubting he's a winner or a solid quarterback, but we already have not just a proven winner at the position, but the winningest all-time quarterback in league history after five years. We have no need to upgrade the position right now and there is a big-time need to address the trenches. It would be a serious travesty in my opinion.

calmkiller
03-13-2009, 08:05 AM
Pat White is a winner plain and simple. All he did was win for FOUR seasons. Before Dixons last year I had never heard of him, honestly. Maybe it was just me ignoring the horrible jersey's they wear but Pat did nothing but win. That is the best quality in a QB I could ask for.

And why does it have to be White that plays WR. Why not make him the Back up QB and turn Dixon into the WR. It works both ways.

Hey CK, you're the one who's got him listed as a slash in your wish list. :lol:

I'm not doubting he's a winner or a solid quarterback, but we already have not just a proven winner at the position, but the winningest all-time quarterback in league history after five years. We have no need to upgrade the position right now and there is a big-time need to address the trenches. It would be a serious travesty in my opinion.

I fully agree. I wanna see us go OL DL OL DL DL WR CB FB. I was arguing for argument sake. Defending Pat White for his ability. I will admit that taking him is a pipe dream of mine and Dixon is player in the same mold as Pat. But I personally would take Pat over Dixon any day. No one will be able to change my mind on that point. But that isn't really the point here. I just wanted to bring up other points.

Oviedo
03-13-2009, 08:20 AM
Nevermind,....just saw coach Tomlin there on NFL network.

why would we take Pat White? Seriously... he is decent but we have Dixon and I just don't see where he fits...

He is fast as hell but is he going to play a slash role or straight QB?


He has the tremendous athletic ability, heart and mental makeup to play receiver,....but he also has the added dimension of actually being a considerable threat as a passer.

Whereas Dixon is simply just relatively athletic with very sub par ability in terms of throwing the football and or playing the position of QB.

Where do you get your information?

Dixon's completion percentage was just as good as Whites with a similar amount of passes attempted...and actually more per season on average as a starter. Their yards per pass attempt are nearly identical...and Dennis Dixon has better overall size and similar arm-strength. Oh and who played against better competition?

I have no problem with people talking about selecting Pat White but...good god. Dennis Dixon was a 5th round pick and you want to take White in the 2nd never having seen him actually play WR...but you say that he has the makeup to play WR.

Dang.

Agree 100%. Dixon was every bit the QB that White is. If not for injury Dixon was on his way to being a finalist for the Heisman.

White wants to play QB because he knows the $$$ there are bigger than WR but all he is doing is setting himself up to be a career back up.

I agree it was pretty bush league to have all those coaches and scouts there believing they would see you run routes only to at the last minute say you wouldn't and then try to spin it after the workout. Unless the Steelers hear White himself say I'm willing to be a WR then I don't want them to touch him. Last thing we need is someone who has an "attitude" because he thinks he isn't being given a chance.

proudpittsburgher
03-13-2009, 08:41 AM
Hmmmm......

Tomlin being there means the interest must be genuine....

Do the Steelers take him? And if yes- where?

I'd say in the second after striking nearly the same deal we did to move up for Troy to snag Rey-Rey (Maualuga) in the 1st as Potsie's heir apparent. Because we'd still have the comp pick in the 3rd with which we could take Victor Harris. And then finish off the Draft with OG/OT Cornelius lewis of Tenn State and DT/DE Zach Potter of NE.(Or Rulon Davis of Cal in place of Potter)

I'm sure that the Roethlisberger "enablers" whom blow the O-line's shortcomings far out of proportion to make excuses for his inconsistency would hate for this to unfold as they want at least 3 O-lineman this year,....but i think these players would compliment our current roster quite well. (As we are not "rebuilding")

But hey,..that's just my opinion,....

The Roethlisberger enablers? Just what are any of us supposedly enabling him to do? Lead us to two championships in four years?

Good God Czar, it's one thing to admit that Ben has room for growth, but if you don't believe that he's among the top three or four quarterbacks in the league then you need to step away from the pipe. Our line did play better down the stretch but don't discount their poor pass protection over the past couple of seasons or the fact that we have ignored both lines at the top of the draft this entire friggin' millenium.

Burning a second round pick on a back-up quarterback is retarded enough to begin with. Considering we have Dixon and apparently will be once again choosing between Batch and Lefty...well what's worse than retarded?

If the guy had proven himself to be a multi-dimensional threat or could return punts, you could sell me on the idea. Since that is clearly not the case, there is no way I'd be happy with selecting him anywhere near the top of the draft.

It took a long time for someone to respond to that drivel. Thank you, fla, for stepping up. Just goes to show that Roethlisberger haters will always be that, no matter not many championships he wins. But I am not going to turn this thread into this Ben pissing match. As for Pat white, I would love to be able to draft an athlete like him, but I fear that we would be overpayign for him by movign up top the secodn round to get him with no intention of using him as a QB.

steeler_fan_in_t.o.
03-13-2009, 09:15 AM
I'm sure that the Roethlisberger "enablers" whom blow the O-line's shortcomings far out of proportion to make excuses for his inconsistency

Are these "enablers" the same people who held FWP to 3.8 YPC and 72 rushing yards per game, or are they the ones who sacked Ben around 100 times the past two years?

steeler_fan_in_t.o.
03-13-2009, 09:17 AM
Doesn't WV have anyone else who the Steelers could have been scouting? I'm sure they have plenty of prospects who worked out who could help us elsewhere. Just because Coach Tomlin took a short trip to WV does not necassarily mean that we were checking out Pat White only.

RuthlessBurgher
03-13-2009, 09:23 AM
Doesn't WV have anyone else who the Steelers could have been scouting? I'm sure they have plenty of prospects who worked out who could help us elsewhere. Just because Coach Tomlin took a short trip to WV does not necassarily mean that we were checking out Pat White only.

Yeah, last year when he went down to WVU, I got all excited that they may truly be interested in Owen Schmitt. Instead, they drafted Ryan Mundy.

calmkiller
03-13-2009, 09:39 AM
Ellis Lankster, CB played in the Senior Bowl with Pat. Had an interception. He was a punt/kick returner for WVU. He wasn't invited to the combine. Had a brush with the law in the past for....stealing a laptop I believe. That should mark him off the Steelers list I would think.

Greg Isdaner (http://www.nfl.com/combine/profiles/greg-isdaner?id=79581#player-profile-tab-set-1:player-profile-tab-analysis), G 6'4 325 His career at WVU took off like gangbusters, as he started immediately and earned Freshman All-American honors at left guard. He was then named first-team All-Big East in his sophomore season. Being left off the all-conference squad as a junior was more a reflection of West Virginia's inconsistent season than his play. During his three seasons in Morgantown, Isdaner proved himself to have enough athleticism and strength to eventually be an NFL starter. Had an arm span of 32 1/2 inches and a hand span of 9 3/4 inches at the combine.

Mortty Ivy (http://www.nfl.com/combine/profiles/mortty-ivy?id=71339#player-profile-tab-set-1:player-profile-tab-analysis), LB 6'1 248 After biding his time behind very good West Virginia linebackers and recovering from a torn ACL suffered in 2006 spring practice, Ivy stood out as a two-year starter. The 2008 first-team All-Big East selection made 179 tackles, 18 for loss, and four interceptions over the past two seasons. His strength near the line of scrimmage and ability in coverage make him a strong-side linebacker prospect.

Oviedo
03-13-2009, 09:52 AM
Ellis Lankster, CB played in the Senior Bowl with Pat. Had an interception. He was a punt/kick returner for WVU. He wasn't invited to the combine. Had a brush with the law in the past for....stealing a laptop I believe. That should mark him off the Steelers list I would think.

Greg Isdaner (http://www.nfl.com/combine/profiles/greg-isdaner?id=79581#player-profile-tab-set-1:player-profile-tab-analysis), G 6'4 325 His career at WVU took off like gangbusters, as he started immediately and earned Freshman All-American honors at left guard. He was then named first-team All-Big East in his sophomore season. Being left off the all-conference squad as a junior was more a reflection of West Virginia's inconsistent season than his play. During his three seasons in Morgantown, Isdaner proved himself to have enough athleticism and strength to eventually be an NFL starter. Had an arm span of 32 1/2 inches and a hand span of 9 3/4 inches at the combine.

Mortty Ivy (http://www.nfl.com/combine/profiles/mortty-ivy?id=71339#player-profile-tab-set-1:player-profile-tab-analysis), LB 6'1 248 After biding his time behind very good West Virginia linebackers and recovering from a torn ACL suffered in 2006 spring practice, Ivy stood out as a two-year starter. The 2008 first-team All-Big East selection made 179 tackles, 18 for loss, and four interceptions over the past two seasons. His strength near the line of scrimmage and ability in coverage make him a strong-side linebacker prospect.

Also mentioned in another article I read that the Steelers might be looking at Ryan Stanchek who plays Tackle as a possible late round draft pick.

Ryan Stanchek, West Virginia
Height: 6-4. Weight: 301.
Projected 40 Time: 5.22.
Projected Round (2009): 6.
1/6/09: An All-Big East first-teamer, Ryan Stanchek finished his West Virginia career with 48 consecutive starts.

pfelix73
03-13-2009, 09:59 AM
Pat White= A wasted pick by the Steelers, IMO. As someone else posted earlier. We already have a Pat White on the team. His name is Dixon.

Oviedo
03-13-2009, 10:06 AM
Pat White= A wasted pick by the Steelers, IMO. As someone else posted earlier. We already have a Pat White on the team. His name is Dixon.

I think this sums it up:

Pat White, the WR is a good middle round pick up
Pat White, the QB would be a wasted draft pick

As correctly pointed out Dixon is White with one year Pro experience under his belt.

calmkiller
03-13-2009, 10:09 AM
Pat White= A wasted pick by the Steelers, IMO. As someone else posted earlier. We already have a Pat White on the team. His name is Dixon.

See for shear sake of arguement, That is like saying we already have Jeff Hartings on the team, his name is Mahan. He is the same type of player but he is NOT Pat White. My point is to a WVU fan you can't make the comparison. Pat White is the Jerry West of football in WV.

Not saying they aren't the same type of player. Just you will not convince 1 mountaineer fan that Dixon is better than White. That what I am trying to say.

Oviedo
03-13-2009, 10:14 AM
Pat White= A wasted pick by the Steelers, IMO. As someone else posted earlier. We already have a Pat White on the team. His name is Dixon.

See for shear sake of arguement, That is like saying we already have Jeff Hartings on the team, his name is Mahan. He is the same type of player but he is NOT Pat White. My point is to a WVU fan you can't make the comparison. Pat White is the Jerry West of football in WV.

Not saying they aren't the same type of player. Just you will not convince 1 mountaineer fan that Dixon is better than White. That what I am trying to say.

The topic at hand is that the Steelers will be drafting a player to play in the NFL, not the Mountaineers drafting a player to play in the Big East.

From a Steelers standpoint, a Pat White who isn't a WR primarily is of limited value to the Steelers.

pfelix73
03-13-2009, 10:19 AM
OK. I still say that PW would be a wasted pick. We'll see how good you guys are again this year when ECU comes up to Morgantown with even a BETTER team than last year.....

We have some quality players along the DL that will make it into the NFL this year, but I don't go around saying we should take them just because they are Pirates....

calmkiller
03-13-2009, 10:55 AM
Point at hand then, no the Steelers will not draft Pat White because they used a draft pick last year on Dennis Dixon.


And I fully expect WVU to have an improved Defense this year and struggle on offense. We may go 7-5.

RussBII
03-13-2009, 10:57 AM
From a Steelers standpoint, a Pat White who isn't a WR primarily is of limited value to the Steelers.

That's the winning argument summed up in one sentence...

pfelix73
03-13-2009, 10:59 AM
:Agree Perfectly said.... I ditto your remark.

:tt1

SteelHead
03-13-2009, 11:28 AM
I didn't read the whole thread , only caught the last couple posts. I agree that as dynamic a prospect as White is I would cringe at his selection for the Steelers on draft day. Kind of ironic actually and probably means nothing as every team had a rep at his pro day but I saw a very brief clip on NFL network and it was of Tomlin talking to him. Probably asking him why he didn't run any routes like every other team was wondering.

SteelCzar76
03-13-2009, 11:32 AM
Hmmmm......

Tomlin being there means the interest must be genuine....

Do the Steelers take him? And if yes- where?

I'd say in the second after striking nearly the same deal we did to move up for Troy to snag Rey-Rey (Maualuga) in the 1st as Potsie's heir apparent. Because we'd still have the comp pick in the 3rd with which we could take Victor Harris. And then finish off the Draft with OG/OT Cornelius lewis of Tenn State and DT/DE Zach Potter of NE.(Or Rulon Davis of Cal in place of Potter)

I'm sure that the Roethlisberger "enablers" whom blow the O-line's shortcomings far out of proportion to make excuses for his inconsistency would hate for this to unfold as they want at least 3 O-lineman this year,....but i think these players would compliment our current roster quite well. (As we are not "rebuilding")

But hey,..that's just my opinion,....

The Roethlisberger enablers? Just what are any of us supposedly enabling him to do? Lead us to two championships in four years?

Good God Czar, it's one thing to admit that Ben has room for growth, but if you don't believe that he's among the top three or four quarterbacks in the league then you need to step away from the pipe. Our line did play better down the stretch but don't discount their poor pass protection over the past couple of seasons or the fact that we have ignored both lines at the top of the draft this entire friggin' millenium.

Burning a second round pick on a back-up quarterback is retarded enough to begin with. Considering we have Dixon and apparently will be once again choosing between Batch and Lefty...well what's worse than retarded?

If the guy had proven himself to be a multi-dimensional threat or could return punts, you could sell me on the idea. Since that is clearly not the case, there is no way I'd be happy with selecting him anywhere near the top of the draft.


I was speaking of enablers in a sense of the percentage of the Steeler fanbase whom relate to Ben for whatever reason on a personal level and henceforth act as though he's the second coming of Dan Marino as a QB,...when the reality is as a passer he's a glorified game manager. Trent dilfer with more athleticism.

No in my opinion he's not one of the Top three QB's in the league. He does not play the position as well as Brady, Manning, Rivers, Brees or even Cutler or Warner. He was just blessed enough to have been selected by an organization with a sound foundation in terms of personnel, Coaching staff and Ownership. That's not "hating",..it's simply truth.

But back to Pat White,...whose to say he will not prove to be multi dimensional ? You don't think that due to the fact that both Tomlin and Colbert were in attendance at his pro day that he will not have a private workout with the team at some point in the next few weeks ?(Where he will run the route tree for them)

And do you honestly feel as though Brittle Batch has that much left in the Tank ? Now Leftwhich,..i'm with you on,...but it's not certain that he will remain a Steeler. And in regards to Dixon,....i've read the arguments that he's similar to White,..but it's not even close. I've watched both of these kids play in college,..and White's a far better passer with a higher "football IQ".

Oviedo
03-13-2009, 12:00 PM
Hmmmm......

Tomlin being there means the interest must be genuine....

Do the Steelers take him? And if yes- where?

I'd say in the second after striking nearly the same deal we did to move up for Troy to snag Rey-Rey (Maualuga) in the 1st as Potsie's heir apparent. Because we'd still have the comp pick in the 3rd with which we could take Victor Harris. And then finish off the Draft with OG/OT Cornelius lewis of Tenn State and DT/DE Zach Potter of NE.(Or Rulon Davis of Cal in place of Potter)

I'm sure that the Roethlisberger "enablers" whom blow the O-line's shortcomings far out of proportion to make excuses for his inconsistency would hate for this to unfold as they want at least 3 O-lineman this year,....but i think these players would compliment our current roster quite well. (As we are not "rebuilding")

But hey,..that's just my opinion,....

The Roethlisberger enablers? Just what are any of us supposedly enabling him to do? Lead us to two championships in four years?

Good God Czar, it's one thing to admit that Ben has room for growth, but if you don't believe that he's among the top three or four quarterbacks in the league then you need to step away from the pipe. Our line did play better down the stretch but don't discount their poor pass protection over the past couple of seasons or the fact that we have ignored both lines at the top of the draft this entire friggin' millenium.

Burning a second round pick on a back-up quarterback is retarded enough to begin with. Considering we have Dixon and apparently will be once again choosing between Batch and Lefty...well what's worse than retarded?

If the guy had proven himself to be a multi-dimensional threat or could return punts, you could sell me on the idea. Since that is clearly not the case, there is no way I'd be happy with selecting him anywhere near the top of the draft.


I was speaking of enablers in a sense of the percentage of the Steeler fanbase whom relate to Ben for whatever reason on a personal level and henceforth act as though he's the second coming of Dan Marino as a QB,...when the reality is as a passer he's a glorified game manager. Trent dilfer with more athleticism.

No in my opinion he's not one of the Top three QB's in the league. He does not play the position as well as Brady, Manning, Rivers, Brees or even Cutler or Warner. He was just blessed enough to have been selected by an organization with a sound foundation in terms of personnel, Coaching staff and Ownership. That's not "hating",..it's simply truth.

But back to Pat White,...whose to say he will not prove to be multi dimensional ? You don't think that due to the fact that both Tomlin and Colbert were in attendance at his pro day that he will not have a private workout with the team at some point in the next few weeks ?(Where he will run the route tree for them)

And do you honestly feel as though Brittle Batch has that much left in the Tank ? Now Leftwhich,..i'm with you on,...but it's not certain that he will remain a Steeler. And in regards to Dixon,....i've read the arguments that he's similar to White,..but it's not even close. I've watched both of these kids play in college,..and White's a far better passer with a higher "football IQ".


he's a glorified game manager

Do you actually watch Steelers' games? We all get it you don't like Ben because he doesn't put up big fantasy football stats but you are totally off base.

The comeback win against the Ravens and the comeback win in the Super Bowl is not what "game managers" do. Those are victories achieved by a QB putting the offense on his shoulders and making things happen.

You can't be a "game manager" and win with the inconsistent running game we had this past season.


He does not play the position as well as Brady, Manning, Rivers, Brees or even Cutler or Warner

If anything, this past season showed that Brady is just a "product of the system." Cassell did just as well as he did.

RuthlessBurgher
03-13-2009, 12:09 PM
I was speaking of enablers in a sense of the percentage of the Steeler fanbase whom relate to Ben for whatever reason on a personal level and henceforth act as though he's the second coming of Dan Marino as a QB,...when the reality is as a passer he's a glorified game manager. Trent dilfer with more athleticism.

No in my opinion he's not one of the Top three QB's in the league. He does not play the position as well as Brady, Manning, Rivers, Brees or even Cutler or Warner. He was just blessed enough to have been selected by an organization with a sound foundation in terms of personnel, Coaching staff and Ownership. That's not "hating",..it's simply truth.

Ah jeez...not this $#!+ again!

http://blog.highspeedweb.net/wp-content/uploads/2009/02/150_ah_geez_not_this_****_again.jpg

SteelCzar76
03-13-2009, 12:17 PM
[quote=Chadman]Hmmmm......

Tomlin being there means the interest must be genuine....

Do the Steelers take him? And if yes- where?

I'd say in the second after striking nearly the same deal we did to move up for Troy to snag Rey-Rey (Maualuga) in the 1st as Potsie's heir apparent. Because we'd still have the comp pick in the 3rd with which we could take Victor Harris. And then finish off the Draft with OG/OT Cornelius lewis of Tenn State and DT/DE Zach Potter of NE.(Or Rulon Davis of Cal in place of Potter)

I'm sure that the Roethlisberger "enablers" whom blow the O-line's shortcomings far out of proportion to make excuses for his inconsistency would hate for this to unfold as they want at least 3 O-lineman this year,....but i think these players would compliment our current roster quite well. (As we are not "rebuilding")

But hey,..that's just my opinion,....

The Roethlisberger enablers? Just what are any of us supposedly enabling him to do? Lead us to two championships in four years?

Good God Czar, it's one thing to admit that Ben has room for growth, but if you don't believe that he's among the top three or four quarterbacks in the league then you need to step away from the pipe. Our line did play better down the stretch but don't discount their poor pass protection over the past couple of seasons or the fact that we have ignored both lines at the top of the draft this entire friggin' millenium.

Burning a second round pick on a back-up quarterback is retarded enough to begin with. Considering we have Dixon and apparently will be once again choosing between Batch and Lefty...well what's worse than retarded?

If the guy had proven himself to be a multi-dimensional threat or could return punts, you could sell me on the idea. Since that is clearly not the case, there is no way I'd be happy with selecting him anywhere near the top of the draft.


I was speaking of enablers in a sense of the percentage of the Steeler fanbase whom relate to Ben for whatever reason on a personal level and henceforth act as though he's the second coming of Dan Marino as a QB,...when the reality is as a passer he's a glorified game manager. Trent dilfer with more athleticism.

No in my opinion he's not one of the Top three QB's in the league. He does not play the position as well as Brady, Manning, Rivers, Brees or even Cutler or Warner. He was just blessed enough to have been selected by an organization with a sound foundation in terms of personnel, Coaching staff and Ownership. That's not "hating",..it's simply truth.

But back to Pat White,...whose to say he will not prove to be multi dimensional ? You don't think that due to the fact that both Tomlin and Colbert were in attendance at his pro day that he will not have a private workout with the team at some point in the next few weeks ?(Where he will run the route tree for them)

And do you honestly feel as though Brittle Batch has that much left in the Tank ? Now Leftwhich,..i'm with you on,...but it's not certain that he will remain a Steeler. And in regards to Dixon,....i've read the arguments that he's similar to White,..but it's not even close. I've watched both of these kids play in college,..and White's a far better passer with a higher "football IQ".


he's a glorified game manager

Do you actually watch Steelers' games? We all get it you don't like Ben because he doesn't put up big fantasy football stats but you are totally off base.

The comeback win against the Ravens and the comeback win in the Super Bowl is not what "game managers" do. Those are victories achieved by a QB putting the offense on his shoulders and making things happen.

You can't be a "game manager" and win with the inconsistent running game we had this past season.


He does not play the position as well as Brady, Manning, Rivers, Brees or even Cutler or Warner

If anything, this past season showed that Brady is just a "product of the system." Cassell did just as well as he did.[/quote:33nacnxk]


I've "actually watched" the Steelers play football since my childhood. And though i have played football,...i have never played "Fantasy" football. So miss me with the nonsense. Everyone is entitled to their opinion,...you think he's great,..i think he's average,..but blessed with considerable "luck" and or fortune. (sometimes that's all you need)

And for the sake of not beating any horse carcass here,...i'll leave it that or digress, because the point of this thread was to discuss Pat White. And i'am well aware that there is no point in debating whether or not "Ben is the greatest of all times" with his Fans.

Oviedo
03-13-2009, 01:22 PM
I guess it is just convenient to ignore facts when they go against your ingrained opinions.

Back to the topic at hand--Pat White. Pat White will never achieve the success that Ben R. has. White is a good college QB in a very unique type of offense that maximized his strengths. The NFL won't.

Pat White is getting very bad advice about this whole "I'm a QB" position.

feltdizz
03-13-2009, 01:54 PM
Ben is a glorified game manager? Goodness..
while I do think Ben was handled correctly as a rookie and I wish he threw the ball away more last year(to save himself)..

there is no other QB playing right now better then Ben.. sure they may have stats out the wazoo but when you have one drive left do you want Peyton? Brees? Cutler? LOL!!! Hell, no.. only Tom Brady*** could be mentioned.. and you would have to say FG for me to take him. Brady* is good but he was good at getting in FG range

whoever said that nonsense should have his membership revoked. LOL!!!!

WoodleyofTroy
03-13-2009, 02:29 PM
But back to Pat White,...whose to say he will not prove to be multi dimensional ? You don't think that due to the fact that both Tomlin and Colbert were in attendance at his pro day that he will not have a private workout with the team at some point in the next few weeks ?(Where he will run the route tree for them)

I'm sure Tomlin and Colbert were in attendance before it was announced White wasn't running routes. Now that he pulled a fast one on everybody, his "dream" :roll: of playing for the Steelers is a fantasy.

BigBen2112
03-13-2009, 02:38 PM
Pat White= A wasted pick by the Steelers, IMO. As someone else posted earlier. We already have a Pat White on the team. His name is Dixon.

See for shear sake of arguement, That is like saying we already have Jeff Hartings on the team, his name is Mahan. He is the same type of player but he is NOT Pat White. My point is to a WVU fan you can't make the comparison. Pat White is the Jerry West of football in WV.

Not saying they aren't the same type of player. Just you will not convince 1 mountaineer fan that Dixon is better than White. That what I am trying to say.

Comparing Dixon to White the way you are (Hartings to Mahan) is completely ridiculous. I understand the WVU homerism for you but my god.

Furthermore, you dont need to convince any Mountaineer fan that Dixon is better than what. We're talking about the PITTSBURGH STEELERS...not who you would want as your college QB running the WVU system.

The Pittsburgh Steelers already have a 3rd QB that they are grooming to be Ben's backup and who has a year of pro-experience AND throws the ball just as well overall...for a backup. It makes no sense for the Steelers to spend a 2nd round pick on Pat White when we already have Dixon and are going to sign a veteran backup no matter what.

Furthermore, according to league rules the 3rd string QB cant come into the game without injuries to the other QBs...so if White WANTS to be a QB we couldn't even use him (if he was labeled as a QB on the roster) as a WR/slash type player.

Again it makes no sense for the PITTSBURGH STEELERS.

BigBen2112
03-13-2009, 02:45 PM
I've "actually watched" the Steelers play football since my childhood. And though i have played football,...i have never played "Fantasy" football. So miss me with the nonsense. Everyone is entitled to their opinion,...you think he's great,..i think he's average,..but blessed with considerable "luck" and or fortune. (sometimes that's all you need)

And for the sake of not beating any horse carcass here,...i'll leave it that or digress, because the point of this thread was to discuss Pat White. And i'am well aware that there is no point in debating whether or not "Ben is the greatest of all times" with his Fans.

He'd be awesome though if he'd played college ball for USC right?

Carson Palmer is a superior QB.

Oviedo
03-13-2009, 02:47 PM
Perhaps we are all missing the most obvious reason for him not running routes at the combine and his Pro Day---he just isn't that good a receiver.

We look at the athletic ability and assume he can catch to the level required in the NFL. Maybe he can't and he and his agent both know it so they are spinning it as his desire to be a QB versus he may not have the potential to be that good a receiver.

There are lots of Olympic caliber track stars who couldn't be a receiver in the NFL. Maybe we should add White to that category.

BigBen2112
03-13-2009, 02:49 PM
Perhaps we are all missing the most obvious reason for him not running routes at the combine and his Pro Day---he just isn't that good a receiver.

We look at the athletic ability and assume he can catch to the level required in the NFL. Maybe he can't and he and his agent both know it so they are spinning it as his desire to be a QB versus he may not have the potential to be that good a receiver.

There are lots of Olympic caliber track stars who couldn't be a receiver in the NFL. Maybe we should add White to that category.

Its quite possible...that's why I asked earlier in this thread who has actually SEEN him play WR and know he can do it?

Jooser
03-13-2009, 03:02 PM
I've tried to stay out of this most recent Pat White thread. I will, however, comment that yes indeed he can catch. He's caught passes out of different formations in the past at WVU. Also, he was drafted by the Angel coming out of high school to play outfield. He can catch, as well as throw....

RuthlessBurgher
03-13-2009, 03:08 PM
I've tried to stay out of this most recent Pat White thread. I will, however, comment that yes indeed he can catch. He's caught passes out of different formations in the past at WVU. Also, he was drafted by the Angel coming out of high school to play outfield. He can catch, as well as throw....

But Randle El started out his senior year playing WR (until they realized that his replacement at QB really sucked and their season would be in the toilet if they didn't move him back), then played WR at the Senior Bowl, and ran routes at the combine and at his Pro Day. ARE was an athletic college QB that we could feel comfortable taking as a WR in round 2. I don't feel anything close to that with White.

Oviedo
03-13-2009, 03:14 PM
I've tried to stay out of this most recent Pat White thread. I will, however, comment that yes indeed he can catch. He's caught passes out of different formations in the past at WVU. Also, he was drafted by the Angel coming out of high school to play outfield. He can catch, as well as throw....

West Virginia's own website does not credit him with a single reception in his 4 years as a Mountaineer. If he had one I would think they would.

2005: http://westvirginia.rivals.com/playerst ... &year=2005 (http://westvirginia.rivals.com/playerstats.asp?Team=WESTVIR&year=2005)
2006: http://westvirginia.rivals.com/playerst ... &year=2006 (http://westvirginia.rivals.com/playerstats.asp?Team=WESTVIR&year=2006)
2007: http://westvirginia.rivals.com/playerst ... &year=2007 (http://westvirginia.rivals.com/playerstats.asp?Team=WESTVIR&year=2007)
2008: http://westvirginia.rivals.com/playerst ... &year=2008 (http://westvirginia.rivals.com/playerstats.asp?Team=WESTVIR&year=2008)

calmkiller
03-13-2009, 03:56 PM
Pat White= A wasted pick by the Steelers, IMO. As someone else posted earlier. We already have a Pat White on the team. His name is Dixon.

See for shear sake of arguement, That is like saying we already have Jeff Hartings on the team, his name is Mahan. He is the same type of player but he is NOT Pat White. My point is to a WVU fan you can't make the comparison. Pat White is the Jerry West of football in WV.

Not saying they aren't the same type of player. Just you will not convince 1 mountaineer fan that Dixon is better than White. That what I am trying to say.

Comparing Dixon to White the way you are (Hartings to Mahan) is completely ridiculous. I understand the WVU homerism for you but my god.

Furthermore, you dont need to convince any Mountaineer fan that Dixon is better than what. We're talking about the PITTSBURGH STEELERS...not who you would want as your college QB running the WVU system.

The Pittsburgh Steelers already have a 3rd QB that they are grooming to be Ben's backup and who has a year of pro-experience AND throws the ball just as well overall...for a backup. It makes no sense for the Steelers to spend a 2nd round pick on Pat White when we already have Dixon and are going to sign a veteran backup no matter what.

Furthermore, according to league rules the 3rd string QB cant come into the game without injuries to the other QBs...so if White WANTS to be a QB we couldn't even use him (if he was labeled as a QB on the roster) as a WR/slash type player.

Again it makes no sense for the PITTSBURGH STEELERS.

I already said that the Steelers wouldn't take him. That isn't what I was saying.

Oviedo
03-13-2009, 04:15 PM
From ESPN. Scouts are starting to think "something is rotten in Denmark."


There were rumblings among the scouts in attendance that White might be hiding a flaw in his game that would hurt his stock as a wideout, and there was also frustration that teams will now have to bring White in for private workouts in order to see what he has to offer as a wide receiver.

http://insider.espn.go.com/nfl/draft09/ ... id=3976345 (http://insider.espn.go.com/nfl/draft09/insider/news/story?id=3976345)

I'm telling you the dude has "hands of stone."

RuthlessBurgher
03-13-2009, 04:27 PM
From ESPN. Scouts are starting to think "something is rotten in Denmark."


There were rumblings among the scouts in attendance that White might be hiding a flaw in his game that would hurt his stock as a wideout, and there was also frustration that teams will now have to bring White in for private workouts in order to see what he has to offer as a wide receiver.

http://insider.espn.go.com/nfl/draft09/ ... id=3976345 (http://insider.espn.go.com/nfl/draft09/insider/news/story?id=3976345)

I'm telling you the dude has "hands of stone."

Being able to actually catch the ball does help a WR just a little bit.

SteelCzar76
03-13-2009, 04:39 PM
I've "actually watched" the Steelers play football since my childhood. And though i have played football,...i have never played "Fantasy" football. So miss me with the nonsense. Everyone is entitled to their opinion,...you think he's great,..i think he's average,..but blessed with considerable "luck" and or fortune. (sometimes that's all you need)

And for the sake of not beating any horse carcass here,...i'll leave it that or digress, because the point of this thread was to discuss Pat White. And i'am well aware that there is no point in debating whether or not "Ben is the greatest of all times" with his Fans.

He'd be awesome though if he'd played college ball for USC right?

Carson Palmer is a superior QB.


No,..because he was never good enough to be a Trojan QB. If memory serves me correctly, OHIO STATE (HOME OF THE COLLEGIATE GAME MANAGER QB) told him that he wasn't good enough to play Qb for THEM !?? (Wanted him to play TE) LOL

But all jousting (for the Trojan bashing) aside,.... personally all that i care about is the Glory and legacy of the Steeler organization. If we win with him playing "backyard ball" then so be it,....i'm tired of arguing about it.( I've been saying it since his Rookie season)

SteelCzar76
03-13-2009, 04:42 PM
It doesn't seem as though coach Tomlin has a problem with White not working out at receiver,.....


http://www.allproblogger.com/?p=1203

Pat White’s Pro Day

March 12th, 2009 | NFL

ProFootballTalk.com is reporting that former West Virginia QB Pat White conducted his Pro Day without doing any WR or KR/PR drills. I was going to go down there today but I couldnt’ make it. Daddy Duty here in Cincy. Anyway, I’m hearing that Pat White had a good showing. Threw the ball well today just like he did at the Combine. As far as at not doing any of the WR drills, it is being reported that WVU head coach Bill Stewart told NFL teams that Pat wouldn’t be doing any of that. I was told that Pittsburgh Steeler coach Mike Tomlin also told NFL people that Pat White would only be doing QB drills. And Tomlin added, “I don’t remember anyone asking Drew Brees to work out as a WR.” Now that is what I heard, I wasn’t there so take it for what it’s worth but Mike was there and is a supporter of Pat. And then it all made sense because Mike Tomiln’s head coach in college was WVU coach Bill Stewart. So if that is true, it’s good to hear that Mike made Pat feel at ease today and allowed him to relax and play QB. I still think that Pat will have to at least show teams that he can run a WR route or catch a punt before the NFL draft. Teams want to draft him, but they also want to know that he can do something else if he doesn’t pan out at QB.

Steelerphile
03-13-2009, 07:08 PM
I think there is very little chance that Pat White will develop enough as a QB to get out of the number 3 QB position on an NFL team. If he wants to do what Brian St Pierre has done and be a No. 3 QB and sit on the bench for several years and probably make a good salary for it, then he should stay as a QB.

Pat White is too small to play QB in the Nfl. I think Dixon is a better NFL QB prospect. I don't think Drew Brees is a good reference point since Brees threw a ton in college, puting up over 11,000 passing yards and White put up over 5,000. I think White was only as effective as he was because he was such a good runner and defenses worried about that first.

He may have all the intangibles that his supporters say but if he doesn't have a real position, what good are they. He's not going to help anybody as a QB except maybe a few gadget plays.

pfelix73
03-13-2009, 09:12 PM
Frankly, I don't even see Pat White as the equivalent of ARE.

ARE is a much better athlete. No comparison at all.

As far as BR not being a top 3 QB in this league? Please. Rivers better than BR? lol....

Flasteel
03-13-2009, 09:17 PM
If we win with him playing "backyard ball" then so be it,....i'm tired of arguing about it.( I've been saying it since his Rookie season)

It looks like you've been wrong for quite some time heh. :lol:

steelcityrules!!
03-13-2009, 11:51 PM
I guess it is just convenient to ignore facts when they go against your ingrained opinions.

Back to the topic at hand--Pat White. Pat White will never achieve the success that Ben R. has. White is a good college QB in a very unique type of offense that maximized his strengths. The NFL won't.

Pat White is getting very bad advice about this whole "I'm a QB" position.

White was a great passing QB who is a phenomenal athlete, was asked to pass very rarely, and had 2 NFL caliber WR's his entire 4 years.

I'm not advocating drafting pat white, nor am i saying he's on the level of ben, but to say he's not capable of being a QB at the next level is absolutely naive.

I'd take him over any of the QB's in the draft this year, he's faster than mike vick and three times as accurate.

i'll laugh if detroit takes stafford #1... they could take a top tackle and LB in the first round and then take pat white in the 2nd.

but they are the lions, destined for mediocrity and first round busts.

BigBen2112
03-13-2009, 11:59 PM
Name a barely 6'0, 195 lb #1 NFL QB.

Not Troy Smith...

Heck I struggle to think of anyone but Rex Grossman who is less than 2 inches taller and 25 lbs heavier than White who is an average NFL QB.

Maybe Tyler Thigpen who was OK in KC this last year...out of the shotgun...but he's not an NFL starter now either.

Compare him to Michael Vick? Not the most flattering comparison since Vick sucked as a QB.

If anything Pat White, at strictly QB, is like Seneca Wallace, Troy Smith, or D.J. Shockley in the NFL. How many of those guys are successful #1 starters?

steelcityrules!!
03-14-2009, 12:20 AM
Name a barely 6'0, 195 lb #1 NFL QB.

Not Troy Smith...

Heck I struggle to think of anyone but Rex Grossman who is less than 2 1/2 inches taller and 25 lbs heavier than White who is a good/average NFL QB.

Maybe Tyler Thigpen who was OK in KC this last year...out of the shotgun...but he's not an NFL starter now either.

Compare him to Michael Vick? Not the most flattering comparison since Vick sucked as a QB.

If anything Pat White, at strictly QB, is like Seneca Wallace, Troy Smith, or D.J. Shockley in the NFL. How many of those guys are successful #1 starters?

ever hear of drew brees?
he's 6' nothin.
jeff garcia is 6' 1"

both are about 7-10lbs heavier than pat and waaaay slower.
Vick wasn't the best passer in the league, but he was dangerous. Thats why I said white was a MUCH better passer.

also, pat white is young and hasn't filled out yet. he'll put on weight.
comparing pat white to seneca wallace, or DJ shockley is really funny.

SteelCzar76
03-14-2009, 01:04 AM
If we win with him playing "backyard ball" then so be it,....i'm tired of arguing about it.( I've been saying it since his Rookie season)

It looks like you've been wrong for quite some time heh. :lol:

Oh no Fla,... i have always been correct in the fact that Coach Lebeau remains the truth. Coach Cowher embodied determination,..until his passion for the game,...was finished. And the entire roster (Inluding Tomlin's ability to mamximize the abilities of his troops) is and was far more responsible for our most recent World titles than your boy Roethlisberger.

If he (Ben) was the QB that you and his groupies/sheeple would like for everyone to believe that he is,...i would surely admit as much,...but when i am aware that "that's that Bullsh@t",....i will be just as forthright at that point. (Stand for something,...or fall for relatively anything) LOL

WoodleyofTroy
03-14-2009, 01:27 AM
If we win with him playing "backyard ball" then so be it,....i'm tired of arguing about it.( I've been saying it since his Rookie season)

It looks like you've been wrong for quite some time heh. :lol:

Oh no Fla,... i have always been correct in the fact that Coach Lebeau remains the truth. Coach Cowher embodied determination,..until his passion for the game,...was finished. And the entire roster (Inluding Tomlin's ability to mamximize the abilities of his troops) is and was far more responsible for our most recent World titles than your boy Roethlisberger.

If he (Ben) was the QB that you and his groupies/sheeple would like for everyone to believe that he is,...i would surely admit as much,...but when i am aware that "that's that Bullsh@t",....i will be just as forthright at that point. (Stand for something,...or fall for relatively anything) LOL

So what exactly are you doing during the part of the game where Ben leads this team to a win on the final drive? It's happened 18 times...

If you can name me one Game Manager that is/was capable of that, your credibility on this topic will jump from 0 percent to maybe point 6.

BigBen2112
03-14-2009, 10:09 AM
Name a barely 6'0, 195 lb #1 NFL QB.

Not Troy Smith...

Heck I struggle to think of anyone but Rex Grossman who is less than 2 1/2 inches taller and 25 lbs heavier than White who is a good/average NFL QB.

Maybe Tyler Thigpen who was OK in KC this last year...out of the shotgun...but he's not an NFL starter now either.

Compare him to Michael Vick? Not the most flattering comparison since Vick sucked as a QB.

If anything Pat White, at strictly QB, is like Seneca Wallace, Troy Smith, or D.J. Shockley in the NFL. How many of those guys are successful #1 starters?

ever hear of drew brees?
he's 6' nothin.
jeff garcia is 6' 1"

both are about 7-10lbs heavier than pat and waaaay slower.
Vick wasn't the best passer in the league, but he was dangerous. Thats why I said white was a MUCH better passer.

also, pat white is young and hasn't filled out yet. he'll put on weight.
comparing pat white to seneca wallace, or DJ shockley is really funny.


What's funny is you comparing Pat White to Drew Brees...1026 completions, 11792 yards, and 90 TDs in a much better conference (Big 10). Brees had 2 games of 500 yards, 7 games of 400 yards, and 16 games of 300 yards or better...and 27 games of over 250 yards...furthermore, while you call him slow, he still rushed for 900 yards and 14 TDs. So if you're keeping track at home fellas...that's 12692 yards and 104 TDs.

Pat White? Still comes up over 200 yards shy...and still doesn't have as many TDs as Brees...and Pat White was a runner. He has 1 game of 300 yards and none others above 250. Tell me again how he's equal to Drew Brees as a QB!

Yes, I figure that you were just answering the question about the size...but since you thought it was so funny about Shockley (more passing yards and TDs in his one year as a starter than Pat White ever had in a single year) I thought I'd show how much superior Drew Brees is to Pat White.

I have never seen homerism this bad. Pat White has 40% of his yards and almost 50% of his TDs rushing...and somehow that equates to a #1 QB in the NFL? Certainly White is a better college player than Wallace or Shockley (although again Shockley only started 1 year and put up better numbers in a much tougher conference)...but his outlook for the pros is probably similar as a QB. And about the whole Michael Vick thing...I mean lets get real here...Michael Vick was as much a glorified runningback playing the position of QB as White would be...except White would look a little better throwing the football...a more superior Ronnie Brown for the wildcat? :lol:

Furthermore, if you really want to get down to it...a guy like Michael Robinson or Brad Smith was more ready for the NFL role they were likely to play than Pat White is. Brad Smith actually did have 3 receptions for 41 yards in his career...Robinson had 33 receptions for 485 yards and 3 TDs.

Pat White might be a good NFL player in terms of running the wild-cat or something like that, but you cant project him to play WR without ever having actually seen him make catches...and that's something that someone obviously is unwilling to do. He's not a #1 QB in the NFL as he stands now...Im sorry.

BigBen2112
03-14-2009, 10:12 AM
If we win with him playing "backyard ball" then so be it,....i'm tired of arguing about it.( I've been saying it since his Rookie season)

It looks like you've been wrong for quite some time heh. :lol:

Oh no Fla,... i have always been correct in the fact that Coach Lebeau remains the truth. Coach Cowher embodied determination,..until his passion for the game,...was finished. And the entire roster (Inluding Tomlin's ability to mamximize the abilities of his troops) is and was far more responsible for our most recent World titles than your boy Roethlisberger.

If he (Ben) was the QB that you and his groupies/sheeple would like for everyone to believe that he is,...i would surely admit as much,...but when i am aware that "that's that Bullsh@t",....i will be just as forthright at that point. (Stand for something,...or fall for relatively anything) LOL

Gotta love Matt Leinart...he played at USC!!!!!! Look at him and his 14 TDs and 17 INTs...friggin FABULOUS!

And about your crap about OSU wanting Ben to play TE...Rich Gannon was asked to play WR...he ended up throwing for over 28,000 yards. Coaches aren't always the smartest...and what OSU QB is currently starting in the NFL?! That all amazing Troy Smith? Or what about...umm....yeah.

Flasteel
03-14-2009, 10:42 AM
If we win with him playing "backyard ball" then so be it,....i'm tired of arguing about it.( I've been saying it since his Rookie season)

It looks like you've been wrong for quite some time heh. :lol:

Oh no Fla,... i have always been correct in the fact that Coach Lebeau remains the truth. Coach Cowher embodied determination,..until his passion for the game,...was finished. And the entire roster (Inluding Tomlin's ability to mamximize the abilities of his troops) is and was far more responsible for our most recent World titles than your boy Roethlisberger.

If he (Ben) was the QB that you and his groupies/sheeple would like for everyone to believe that he is,...i would surely admit as much,...but when i am aware that "that's that Bullsh@t",....i will be just as forthright at that point. (Stand for something,...or fall for relatively anything) LOL

Gotta love Matt Leinart...he played at USC!!!!!! Look at him and his 14 TDs and 17 INTs...friggin FABULOUS!

And about your crap about OSU wanting Ben to play TE...Rich Gannon was asked to play WR...he ended up throwing for over 28,000 yards. Coaches aren't always the smartest...and what OSU QB is currently starting in the NFL?! That all amazing Troy Smith? Or what about...umm....yeah.

Let's not forget that Roethlisberger only started at quarterback for his senior season in high school due to a little nepotism. I'd say that had a little to do with his lack of college recruitment.

Funny how long this thread has continued for so long when the two basic points of debate are both absurd.
1. We should draft Pat White with a premium pick. :wft
2. Ben Roethlisberger is nothing more than a glorified game manager. :wft :wft :lol: :HeadBanger :roll:

We are all entitled to our opinions, but holy crap. Some of you guys are just flat-out (WVU) homers or (Ben) haters.

grotonsteel
03-14-2009, 12:18 PM
If we win with him playing "backyard ball" then so be it,....i'm tired of arguing about it.( I've been saying it since his Rookie season)

It looks like you've been wrong for quite some time heh. :lol:

Oh no Fla,... i have always been correct in the fact that Coach Lebeau remains the truth. Coach Cowher embodied determination,..until his passion for the game,...was finished. And the entire roster (Inluding Tomlin's ability to mamximize the abilities of his troops) is and was far more responsible for our most recent World titles than your boy Roethlisberger.

If he (Ben) was the QB that you and his groupies/sheeple would like for everyone to believe that he is,...i would surely admit as much,...but when i am aware that "that's that Bullsh@t",....i will be just as forthright at that point. (Stand for something,...or fall for relatively anything) LOL


Can you tell me why was Cowher not able to win a single SB till Big Ben arrived?? Steelers had great D in 90s under Coach Cowher still they struggled to win the SB. Can you tell me why Steelers were not able to win a SB in 26 years.

I think people like you might be praying for his failure or cheer whenever he throws INT...

Big Ben was the Steelers Offense last season..period

You are saying Drew Brees is better than Big Ben..can you tell me how did Drew played in AWAY games??

grotonsteel
03-14-2009, 12:23 PM
I think it will be the biggest blunder Steelers would make if they draft Pat White in Rd 2.

Steelers have more need in the trenches and CB/WR. I would be disappointed if they don't take atleast 2 OL in first 4 RD.

Jooser
03-14-2009, 12:46 PM
How does a thread about Pat White's Pro Day Workout equate to being a Ben hater? Holy cow! This whole thread is becoming absurd. I can't justify a second rounder on White, but I can't say that he'd be a wasted pick later either. Just chill guys. Pat White is a great athlete and noone can knock that or be called a WVU homer for liking him. Ben is our QB - end of story. Why is it so offensive to some though, to discuss Pat White? This young man is a stellar athlete, but he shouldn't be such a polarizing figure here on this board. He's not going to replace BB, so zip up your piss markers and look at what a guy like Pat COULD bring to the 'Burgh. Pat White wasn't the most productive passer in the NCAA, that's a given. He also played in a program that ran the HELL out of him all the time. People who say he cannot pass are not quite on the mark though. He never had any decent WRs in his career at WVU. Instead, he had basically RBs lined up at flanker who he was expected to throw bubble screens and quick outs to. So, I can't blame him totally for his lack of pass production. Did he throw bad passes from time to time? Sure he did. Don't they all?

I just think that Pat White has yet to show all that he has, given what program he came from. Noone ever wanted to let him play QB at the DivI level, but you know what? He won two BCS games as the starter. So, I don't know. I think that some of you nay-sayers who want to look solely at stats should take a page out of BB book on winning football games. Pat White has that same grit that Ben has, and noone wants to give him any credit, the same way Ben is somehow not an 'elite' NFL qb to some. As for the homer talk, that's just starting to stink, so move on.....

RuthlessBurgher
03-14-2009, 01:15 PM
How does a thread about Pat White's Pro Day Workout equate to being a Ben hater? Holy cow! This whole thread is becoming absurd. I can't justify a second rounder on White, but I can't say that he'd be a wasted pick later either. Just chill guys. Pat White is a great athlete and noone can knock that or be called a WVU homer for liking him. Ben is our QB - end of story. Why is it so offensive to some though, to discuss Pat White? This young man is a stellar athlete, but he shouldn't be such a polarizing figure here on this board. He's not going to replace BB, so zip up your piss markers and look at what a guy like Pat COULD bring to the 'Burgh. Pat White wasn't the most productive passer in the NCAA, that's a given. He also played in a program that ran the HELL out of him all the time. People who say he cannot pass are not quite on the mark though. He never had any decent WRs in his career at WVU. Instead, he had basically RBs lined up at flanker who he was expected to throw bubble screens and quick outs to. So, I can't blame him totally for his lack of pass production. Did he throw bad passes from time to time? Sure he did. Don't they all?

I just think that Pat White has yet to show all that he has, given what program he came from. Noone ever wanted to let him play QB at the DivI level, but you know what? He won two BCS games as the starter. So, I don't know. I think that some of you nay-sayers who want to look solely at stats should take a page out of BB book on winning football games. Pat White has that same grit that Ben has, and noone wants to give him any credit, the same way Ben is somehow not an 'elite' NFL qb to some. As for the homer talk, that's just starting to stink, so move on.....

I think FlaSteel's "Ben Hater" comment was aimed at one particular poster (czar) who still thinks Ben is nothing more than a game manager in spite of all of the evidence to the contrary.

Flasteel
03-14-2009, 02:59 PM
How does a thread about Pat White's Pro Day Workout equate to being a Ben hater? Holy cow! This whole thread is becoming absurd. I can't justify a second rounder on White, but I can't say that he'd be a wasted pick later either. Just chill guys. Pat White is a great athlete and noone can knock that or be called a WVU homer for liking him. Ben is our QB - end of story. Why is it so offensive to some though, to discuss Pat White? This young man is a stellar athlete, but he shouldn't be such a polarizing figure here on this board. He's not going to replace BB, so zip up your piss markers and look at what a guy like Pat COULD bring to the 'Burgh. Pat White wasn't the most productive passer in the NCAA, that's a given. He also played in a program that ran the HELL out of him all the time. People who say he cannot pass are not quite on the mark though. He never had any decent WRs in his career at WVU. Instead, he had basically RBs lined up at flanker who he was expected to throw bubble screens and quick outs to. So, I can't blame him totally for his lack of pass production. Did he throw bad passes from time to time? Sure he did. Don't they all?

I just think that Pat White has yet to show all that he has, given what program he came from. Noone ever wanted to let him play QB at the DivI level, but you know what? He won two BCS games as the starter. So, I don't know. I think that some of you nay-sayers who want to look solely at stats should take a page out of BB book on winning football games. Pat White has that same grit that Ben has, and noone wants to give him any credit, the same way Ben is somehow not an 'elite' NFL qb to some. As for the homer talk, that's just starting to stink, so move on.....

I think FlaSteel's "Ben Hater" comment was aimed at one particular poster (czar) who still thinks Ben is nothing more than a game manager in spite of all of the evidence to the contrary.

Exactly brother. I try not to make a habit of calling folks out for their opinions and Czar seems like an otherwise rational dude, but dayum.

I'm also not trying to say that Pat White isn't a good quarterback or was maybe even a great one at the collegiate level. I'm just saying that we are obviously set with our starter and and have a nice mix of veterans and a young guy with potential in Dixon. You cannot make a sound argument for us burning a high pick on White...period.

WoodleyofTroy
03-14-2009, 04:18 PM
What I got out of this thread.

Ben is a bust at Quarterback and Pat White is the next Joe Montana, in which the Lions who are trying to find an identity, would be stupid to take a potential Franchise caller like Matt Stafford, with White soon to be winning Super Bowls.

Great stuff.

SteelCzar76
03-14-2009, 04:29 PM
How does a thread about Pat White's Pro Day Workout equate to being a Ben hater? Holy cow! This whole thread is becoming absurd. I can't justify a second rounder on White, but I can't say that he'd be a wasted pick later either. Just chill guys. Pat White is a great athlete and noone can knock that or be called a WVU homer for liking him. Ben is our QB - end of story. Why is it so offensive to some though, to discuss Pat White? This young man is a stellar athlete, but he shouldn't be such a polarizing figure here on this board. He's not going to replace BB, so zip up your piss markers and look at what a guy like Pat COULD bring to the 'Burgh. Pat White wasn't the most productive passer in the NCAA, that's a given. He also played in a program that ran the HELL out of him all the time. People who say he cannot pass are not quite on the mark though. He never had any decent WRs in his career at WVU. Instead, he had basically RBs lined up at flanker who he was expected to throw bubble screens and quick outs to. So, I can't blame him totally for his lack of pass production. Did he throw bad passes from time to time? Sure he did. Don't they all?

I just think that Pat White has yet to show all that he has, given what program he came from. Noone ever wanted to let him play QB at the DivI level, but you know what? He won two BCS games as the starter. So, I don't know. I think that some of you nay-sayers who want to look solely at stats should take a page out of BB book on winning football games. Pat White has that same grit that Ben has, and noone wants to give him any credit, the same way Ben is somehow not an 'elite' NFL qb to some. As for the homer talk, that's just starting to stink, so move on.....

I think FlaSteel's "Ben Hater" comment was aimed at one particular poster (czar) who still thinks Ben is nothing more than a game manager in spite of all of the evidence to the contrary.

Exactly brother. I try not to make a habit of calling folks out for their opinions and Czar seems like an otherwise rational dude, but dayum.

I'm also not trying to say that Pat White isn't a good quarterback or was maybe even a great one at the collegiate level. I'm just saying that we are obviously set with our starter and and have a nice mix of veterans and a young guy with potential in Dixon. You cannot make a sound argument for us burning a high pick on White...period.


In in reality Fla,...i'm not saying that Ben is a "Bum". But after years of Mark Malone, Bubby Brister, Odonnell killing us against the Cowgirls, and most of all Kordell killing us in every big game,...perhaps i'm just i bit jaded in terms of our QBs.

Now Roethlisberger admittedly is a step above all of the aforementioned cats,..but i would just like to see him become more consistent, so that we don't need late heroics to pull out victories and in essence become as "Dominant" on the offensive side of the ball as we are on Defense.

I would like to see him become more dedicated to film study, practice and an offseason regiment that would actually allow him to become the Qb that those whom are his Fans believe him to be at this very moment. And with that said,..i'm done with the topic,...we all know where we stand.

And in regards to Pat White,....i still feel as though he would be very worthwhile selection for the team, no matter where we select him. My reasoning being,..as i mentioned before,...we are not "rebuilding" and have the liberty of selecting some "impact" players this year. That may sound a bit too "sexy" to those of the Nation whom are for the most part obsessed with addressing the "trenches" on the offensive side of the ball. But,....it's where i stand.

NKySteeler
03-14-2009, 04:29 PM
I'm also not trying to say that Pat White isn't a good quarterback or was maybe even a great one at the collegiate level. I'm just saying that we are obviously set with our starter and and have a nice mix of veterans and a young guy with potential in Dixon. You cannot make a sound argument for us burning a high pick on White...period.

While White had success on the collegiate level, I do not think he will have the same on the pro level. Sorry, but I don't... There have been plenty of kids that had ability and strengths and didn't make it on the next level. I think White fits into this category.

His best bet would be to become a "slash-type" player, a WR that can return kicks, or just hope not to be cut by whoever drafts him. Either way, I see it this way:

1. We don't need a qb. We are set in that department.

2. We could use some depth at WR, but he doesn't have the experience to fill this role.

3. We probably could use a return man (Santonio makes me nervous, and he probably shouldn't be doing it), but again he doesn't have the experience to draft him for that either.

.... IMHO, it would be a mistake to burn an "upper level" pick on him.

eniparadoxgma
03-14-2009, 05:31 PM
teeceemadison II

That is all.

feltdizz
03-14-2009, 05:52 PM
I watched Pat White a lot in college.. sure I'm a PITT fan but I loved watching him in college and beating overrated SEC teams in bowl games..

but let's get one thing straight. Pat White NEVER EVER... was a passing threat. Sure he had a few games with decent passing stats his last year but I think that is why he returned.. to get reps passing to show the NFL he has an arm. He has a canon but his accuracy is ehh.. whenever it was 3rd and long.

There is a reason WVU couldn't beat USF or PITT the last 2 years.. those teams ran D's that took away the edge and forced WVU into passing situations.. and he just couldn't get it done.

Now Pat White may end up being a good NFL QB.... but with Dixon we have our Pat White.

and to those who think he is Vick.. please.. Vick was a drop back passer who was a threat as a runner.. sure he was ugly underneath but he did enough to win a bunch of NFL games.. funny thing is Vick looked like Montana when he played us.
he was a nut off the field but as an NFL QB I have seen much worse from so called pocket passers.

To sum it all up.. Pat White may end up being a legit NFL QB.. but the odds are not in his favor and if anyone watched Dixon at Oregon you would understand we have Pat White already.

I would take him in the 5th.. no earlier.

steelcityrules!!
03-14-2009, 07:13 PM
I think some posters on here are flailing about and are making wild accusations about pat white, and why some of us think he'll be successful.

#1- I never said he was as good a QB as drew brees, I was commenting that him being less than 6' 5" wasn't guaranteeing him to fail. Take a pill bigben.

#2- Pat white doesn't have the passing stats that many good college QB's do, and as I said before his lack of weapons in the receiving game and the offense he was in dictated he do other things. He was ALWAYS very accurate, but suffered from a lot of dropped balls. He's done nothing but win games, and was one of the best passers in the senior bowl, combine, etc, etc, etc.

#3- drafting pat white was never a guarantee that the lions would win superbowls, my point was that they could acquire a rediculously good OT and LB/DE in the first round and have a QB in pat white in the 2nd or 3rd who was a great talent and won 4 consecutive bowl games as a starter.

#4- I reiterate, I don't condone spending a high draft pick on pat white. I am saying that some team that uses him to his potential will get a talented winner who has the ABILITY to be a #1 QB in the NFL.

Chavezz
03-15-2009, 12:41 PM
I guess it is just convenient to ignore facts when they go against your ingrained opinions.

Back to the topic at hand--Pat White. Pat White will never achieve the success that Ben R. has. White is a good college QB in a very unique type of offense that maximized his strengths. The NFL won't.

Pat White is getting very bad advice about this whole "I'm a QB" position.

White was a great passing QB who is a phenomenal athlete, was asked to pass very rarely, and had 2 NFL caliber WR's his entire 4 years.

I'm not advocating drafting pat white, nor am i saying he's on the level of ben, but to say he's not capable of being a QB at the next level is absolutely naive.

I'd take him over any of the QB's in the draft this year, he's faster than mike vick and three times as accurate.

i'll laugh if detroit takes stafford #1... they could take a top tackle and LB in the first round and then take pat white in the 2nd.

but they are the lions, destined for mediocrity and first round busts.

Bull.

He's not faster than Vick. I'm fairly certain that 4.55 was his 40 from the combine. Vick was in the 4.3 range.

I understand all of you WVU homers are going to overrate him, I get it. But this is stupid and if White is on this team for more than a 5th rd pick it was a bad move.

feltdizz
03-15-2009, 12:48 PM
I guess it is just convenient to ignore facts when they go against your ingrained opinions.

Back to the topic at hand--Pat White. Pat White will never achieve the success that Ben R. has. White is a good college QB in a very unique type of offense that maximized his strengths. The NFL won't.

Pat White is getting very bad advice about this whole "I'm a QB" position.

White was a great passing QB who is a phenomenal athlete, was asked to pass very rarely, and had 2 NFL caliber WR's his entire 4 years.

I'm not advocating drafting pat white, nor am i saying he's on the level of ben, but to say he's not capable of being a QB at the next level is absolutely naive.

I'd take him over any of the QB's in the draft this year, he's faster than mike vick and three times as accurate.

i'll laugh if detroit takes stafford #1... they could take a top tackle and LB in the first round and then take pat white in the 2nd.

but they are the lions, destined for mediocrity and first round busts.

Bull.

He's not faster than Vick. I'm fairly certain that 4.55 was his 40 from the combine. Vick was in the 4.3 range.

I understand all of you WVU homers are going to overrate him, I get it. But this is stupid and if White is on this team for more than a 5th rd pick it was a bad move.

Pat White is fast but I think people hate Vick so much they tend to underrate him as an NFL player... he wasn't the pocket QB people like but he won games..

I think Vick and White are similar only in color and passing efficiency..
When both these guys are forced into passing situations they struggled.

I don't buy the lack of pro WR at WVU.. it's college and most teams do not have pro WR..

RuthlessBurgher
03-15-2009, 01:01 PM
How about a comparison between Pat White and Tim Tebow then? I know Tebow is not in this draft, but if they both were in the same draft, who would you prefer as a passer, as a running threat, as a potential pass catcher in the pros, and as a winner/intangibles guy? Just throwing it out there...

steelcityrules!!
03-15-2009, 01:32 PM
I guess it is just convenient to ignore facts when they go against your ingrained opinions.

Back to the topic at hand--Pat White. Pat White will never achieve the success that Ben R. has. White is a good college QB in a very unique type of offense that maximized his strengths. The NFL won't.

Pat White is getting very bad advice about this whole "I'm a QB" position.

White was a great passing QB who is a phenomenal athlete, was asked to pass very rarely, and had 2 NFL caliber WR's his entire 4 years.

I'm not advocating drafting pat white, nor am i saying he's on the level of ben, but to say he's not capable of being a QB at the next level is absolutely naive.

I'd take him over any of the QB's in the draft this year, he's faster than mike vick and three times as accurate.

i'll laugh if detroit takes stafford #1... they could take a top tackle and LB in the first round and then take pat white in the 2nd.

but they are the lions, destined for mediocrity and first round busts.

Bull.

He's not faster than Vick. I'm fairly certain that 4.55 was his 40 from the combine. Vick was in the 4.3 range.

I understand all of you WVU homers are going to overrate him, I get it. But this is stupid and if White is on this team for more than a 5th rd pick it was a bad move.

I stand corrected. Most scouting sites have 40 times for pat white at 4.38 and a 40 time for mike vick at 4.36. most think pat averages in the low 4.4's. I'll trade those 2 hundreths of a second for the passing skills of white any day of the week, and twice on sundays next fall.

let me say AGAIN, I'm not advocating us using a high draft pick for him.
I will also say again, pat white will be a better QB and more accurate than mike vick was if given a chance. Here-say on my part for sure at this point, but thats my opinion.

I am also not anti-Dixon, and actually think drafting him at his spot was a deal/steal. But, what I will ask is what big games on a big stage has Dixon won? I don't believe he's even won a single bowl game, has 18 fewer passing TD's than pat white, and about 1000 fewer passing yards, and lets not even bring up the rushing threat.

it's funny to see PITT fans on here say he's never ever been a passing threat. It's not even close to being accurate... ask the Tar heels if he's a threat to pass:
CMP ATT YDS CMP% LNG TD INT RAT
26 32 332 81.3 44 3 1 193.09

keep doubting him, calling him overrated, whatever. Kid is a proven winner

steelcityrules!!
03-15-2009, 01:37 PM
in my haste to defend white, I think it could be construed that I think Stafford will be a bust. I don't think that is accurate, and he could be very successful. I more meant that without major help in other areas, he has a higher chance of failing in a scenario like detroit.

drafting stafford without better linemen and a defense, let alone a better F.O. will most likely not help his development or win them games.

SteelCzar76
03-15-2009, 01:58 PM
keep doubting him, calling him overrated, whatever. Kid is a proven winner[/quote]

Exactly. And i believe this and i'am by no means a WV "homer". I was raised a Steeler Fan (as part of my mother and her side of the Family's Western PA roots) in Los Angeles. (Trojan Born)

Meaning,...if anything one would expect an SC "Homer" to be biased against White and consider him "overrated". But i have to be honest,...i have watched this kid play and he is THAT good. And he's continued to prove as much amongst his peers, before the critics, scouts and coaches with his performance at the senior Bowl, Combine and personal workouts. And all of this after having a very productive and winning Collegiate career at a major program.

I'm saying,...what more does the Kid have to do to prove himself ? I really believe that those whom minimize this kid's potential success at league level do so unfairly because of some bigoted hatred for Michael Vick,... or merely because he lacks prototypical size?

But i remember a player whose arguably the greatest Qb of all times,..whom most certainly lacked size and supposed strength. And not by any means do i compare White to him seriously as he's a legend,..but i say that as an example of how such "supposed" shortcomings can be overcome by not only ability to play, but intellect, will to win and hard work.

NKySteeler
03-15-2009, 02:02 PM
How about a comparison between Pat White and Tim Tebow then? I know Tebow is not in this draft, but if they both were in the same draft, who would you prefer as a passer, as a running threat, as a potential pass catcher in the pros, and as a winner/intangibles guy? Just throwing it out there...

Just a quick interjection on a bit of a tangent, then I'll back out...

IMO, Florida is a good example of qbs having talent and ability on the collegiate level but just can't seem to get it done in the pros.... They have had some VERY talented qbs over the years that haven't worked-out in the pros for whatever the reasons.

RuthlessBurgher
03-15-2009, 02:27 PM
keep doubting him, calling him overrated, whatever. Kid is a proven winner

Exactly. And i believe this and i'am by no means a WV "homer". I was raised a Steeler Fan (as part of my mother and her side of the Family's Western PA roots) in Los Angeles. (Tojan Born)

Meaning,...if anything one would expect an SC "Homer" to be biased against White and consider him "overrated". But i have to be honest,...i have watched this kid play and he is THAT good. And he's continued to prove as much amongst his peers, before the critics, scouts and coaches with his performance at the senior Bowl, Combine and personal workouts. And all of this after having a very productive and winning Collegiate career at a major program.

I'm saying,...what more does the Kid have to do to prove himself ? I really believe that those whom minimize this kid's potential success at league level do so unfairly because of some bigoted hatred for Michael Vick,... or merely because he lacks prototypical size?

But i remember a player whose arguably the greatest Qb of all times,..whom most certainly lacked size and supposed strength. And not by any means do i compare White to him seriously as he's a legend,..but i say that as an example of how such "supposed" shortcomings can be overcome by not only ability to play, but intellect, will to win and hard work.[/quote]

I find it quite odd that the guy who still thinks that Ben is nothing but a glorified game manager (when he has won two Super Bowls, taken his team to the conference championship game in 3 out of his 5 seasons in the league, has the most wins than any other QB in NFL history in his first 5 seasons, has 19 4th quarter comebacks, and only had one poor statistical season after putting his bare head through Chrysler) is the same guy who is now asking "what more does the Kid have to do to prove himself?" in reference to an undersized QB from WVU. If Pat White doesn't need to do anything more to prove himself, what exactly does Ben have to do to prove himself? Just curious...

feltdizz
03-15-2009, 04:49 PM
people are going way overboard with the Pat White love...
I'm a fan of his and loved the way he abused Georgia...
but lets get one thing straight...

using 300 yards against North Carolina as proof he is a legit passer is comedy...
I'm not saying Pat White can't pass.. but I think you have to look at Pat White against Big East competition and those who are used to playing against him..


How about we look at Pat White against PITT and USF the last 2 years? my point and the point no Pat White fan wants to talk about is Pat White when he has to pass...

WoodleyofTroy
03-15-2009, 04:55 PM
I find it quite odd that the guy who still thinks that Ben is nothing but a glorified game manager (when he has won two Super Bowls, taken his team to the conference championship game in 3 out of his 5 seasons in the league, has the most wins than any other QB in NFL history in his first 5 seasons, has 19 4th quarter comebacks, and only had one poor statistical season after putting his bare head through Chrysler) is the same guy who is now asking "what more does the Kid have to do to prove himself?" in reference to an undersized QB from WVU. If Pat White doesn't need to do anything more to prove himself, what exactly does Ben have to do to prove himself? Just curious...

Checkmate.

SteelCzar76
03-15-2009, 08:22 PM
I find it quite odd that the guy who still thinks that Ben is nothing but a glorified game manager (when he has won two Super Bowls, taken his team to the conference championship game in 3 out of his 5 seasons in the league, has the most wins than any other QB in NFL history in his first 5 seasons, has 19 4th quarter comebacks, and only had one poor statistical season after putting his bare head through Chrysler) is the same guy who is now asking "what more does the Kid have to do to prove himself?" in reference to an undersized QB from WVU. If Pat White doesn't need to do anything more to prove himself, what exactly does Ben have to do to prove himself? Just curious...

Study film, work as a leader should at practice and in offseason physical regiments and thereby alleviate any foolishness (picks, poor decision making, inability to read an react to defenses fast enough) that offsets the greatness that he is capable of,.....

And that my friends is the proverbial,...."Checkmate".

calmkiller
03-15-2009, 09:07 PM
USF and Pitt the last two years are very easily explained. It very hard to have a good passing day when there are only 9 pass plays called and only 2 of those are not bubble screens. The coaching staff calls the plays. Not Pat.

steelcityrules!!
03-15-2009, 09:18 PM
people are going way overboard with the Pat White love...
I'm a fan of his and loved the way he abused Georgia...
but lets get one thing straight...

using 300 yards against North Carolina as proof he is a legit passer is comedy...
I'm not saying Pat White can't pass.. but I think you have to look at Pat White against Big East competition and those who are used to playing against him..


How about we look at Pat White against PITT and USF the last 2 years? my point and the point no Pat White fan wants to talk about is Pat White when he has to pass...

so I can't use his bowl victories or his overall stats vs. the big east as credentials of his potential, only 4 of his losses in the last 4 seasons?

give me a break dude.

the entire team was out-coached in at least 2-3 of those games, you can't lay those losses all on white.

fine.

dixon is better
shockley is better
vick is by far a better passer

I don't care anymore.
trying to give a great kid and great college QB some props and some of us are actually echoing what tomlin has been saying... but we're just homers.

:moon

feltdizz
03-16-2009, 01:09 PM
people are going way overboard with the Pat White love...
I'm a fan of his and loved the way he abused Georgia...
but lets get one thing straight...

using 300 yards against North Carolina as proof he is a legit passer is comedy...
I'm not saying Pat White can't pass.. but I think you have to look at Pat White against Big East competition and those who are used to playing against him..


How about we look at Pat White against PITT and USF the last 2 years? my point and the point no Pat White fan wants to talk about is Pat White when he has to pass...

so I can't use his bowl victories or his overall stats vs. the big east as credentials of his potential, only 4 of his losses in the last 4 seasons?

give me a break dude.

the entire team was out-coached in at least 2-3 of those games, you can't lay those losses all on white.

fine.

dixon is better
shockley is better
vick is by far a better passer

I don't care anymore.
trying to give a great kid and great college QB some props and some of us are actually echoing what tomlin has been saying... but we're just homers.

:moon


How are football fans supposed to be sold on a QB who didn't drop back 20 to 25 times a game? Sure you can use Pat Whites bowl victories to show he is athletic.. but I'm pretty sure Pat White averaged like 7 to 10 passes(excluding bubble screens) a game in his first 3 seasons..

I know Pat White is a beast of an athlete and watched him win a ton of games WITH HIS FEET.

I keep bringing up his losses because those were games where he had to pass and he wasn't that efficient IMO... what is the point of showing film of Pat White running options and QB draws in bowl wins to prove he is a legit QB?

QB coaches are looking at 3rd and 12... drop back and throw the ball. IMO...

I don't see why WVU and Pat White fans.. which I am one... can get angry that guys are saying what we all know is true.. he wasn't a pocket passer..

It's the same reason Tebow keeps coming back to college.. NFL GM's do not know what to do with a QB who gets the majority of his passing yards on option passes. It's not a true barometer of QB play NFL teams want to see.

Oviedo
03-16-2009, 02:45 PM
Wow--7 pages of discussion about a college player who will NEVER be on the Steelers.

Pretty good marketing by his agent to get fans of a team he will NEVER play for talking this much about him.

feltdizz
03-16-2009, 03:46 PM
Wow--7 pages of discussion about a college player who will NEVER be on the Steelers.

Pretty good marketing by his agent to get fans of a team he will NEVER play for talking this much about him.

I think the debate is more about his chances of being an NFL QB...

LOL!!

Oviedo
03-16-2009, 04:00 PM
Wow--7 pages of discussion about a college player who will NEVER be on the Steelers.

Pretty good marketing by his agent to get fans of a team he will NEVER play for talking this much about him.

I think the debate is more about his chances of being an NFL QB...

LOL!!

Whether he succeeds or fails as an NFL QB, the one certainty is that it won't be under center for the Steelers.

Dennis Dixon is more in that equation than White will ever be.

steelcityrules!!
03-16-2009, 06:23 PM
Wow--7 pages of discussion about a college player who will NEVER be on the Steelers.

Pretty good marketing by his agent to get fans of a team he will NEVER play for talking this much about him.

I think the debate is more about his chances of being an NFL QB...

LOL!!

Whether he succeeds or fails as an NFL QB, the one certainty is that it won't be under center for the Steelers.

Dennis Dixon is more in that equation than White will ever be.

point taken, but there are a number of steeler/mountaineer fans who hold him in pretty high regard.

so, when some are saying he won't be successful because he's short, it's bound to touch off some sort of debate.

as we have seen.
whole lotta this :Blah

myself included.

steelcityrules!!
03-16-2009, 06:42 PM
people are going way overboard with the Pat White love...
I'm a fan of his and loved the way he abused Georgia...
but lets get one thing straight...

using 300 yards against North Carolina as proof he is a legit passer is comedy...
I'm not saying Pat White can't pass.. but I think you have to look at Pat White against Big East competition and those who are used to playing against him..


How about we look at Pat White against PITT and USF the last 2 years? my point and the point no Pat White fan wants to talk about is Pat White when he has to pass...

so I can't use his bowl victories or his overall stats vs. the big east as credentials of his potential, only 4 of his losses in the last 4 seasons?

give me a break dude.

the entire team was out-coached in at least 2-3 of those games, you can't lay those losses all on white.

fine.

dixon is better
shockley is better
vick is by far a better passer

I don't care anymore.
trying to give a great kid and great college QB some props and some of us are actually echoing what tomlin has been saying... but we're just homers.

:moon


How are football fans supposed to be sold on a QB who didn't drop back 20 to 25 times a game? Sure you can use Pat Whites bowl victories to show he is athletic.. but I'm pretty sure Pat White averaged like 7 to 10 passes(excluding bubble screens) a game in his first 3 seasons..

I know Pat White is a beast of an athlete and watched him win a ton of games WITH HIS FEET.

I keep bringing up his losses because those were games where he had to pass and he wasn't that efficient IMO... what is the point of showing film of Pat White running options and QB draws in bowl wins to prove he is a legit QB?

QB coaches are looking at 3rd and 12... drop back and throw the ball. IMO...

I don't see why WVU and Pat White fans.. which I am one... can get angry that guys are saying what we all know is true.. he wasn't a pocket passer..

It's the same reason Tebow keeps coming back to college.. NFL GM's do not know what to do with a QB who gets the majority of his passing yards on option passes. It's not a true barometer of QB play NFL teams want to see.


I know there are tons of pat white runs out there that are amazing, and he did a ton of damage with his feet...

but this clip (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X0YPDFmcp5Y) is a healthy blend of both, showcasing his passing ability and more importantly, his ability to scan the field and make good decisions. Some pretty nifty scrambling in the pocket before he throws a dart for a TD or a first down.

the best is the end, and it's for the pitt fan who thinks Pat is no threat whatsoever to pass the ball. The mountaineers are going to miss this kid A LOT.

sorry, couldn't resist.

:Clap

feltdizz
03-16-2009, 11:31 PM
he was a beast.. I'll give him that.. I wished they talked about Pat White the way they talk about Tebow...

but I'm still not sold on him... I won't be mad if he proves me wrong though

I would take him if I'm the Lions or the Jets.. but not the Steelers

Steelerphile
03-17-2009, 08:53 AM
Pat White throws the ball well enough that you have to respect his passing on the collegiate level. His running ability is his most prominent ability. To make it at the NFL level, a QBs passing needs to be at the elite level. There are a number of college QBs that throw well in college and have fans who tout their character and skills, but when they come out, never do anything in the NFL.

I think Pat White falls into that category. There is something in his motion that doesn't seem fluid or natural to me. I think he has a lot of work to do and I have doubts he could be successful threading passes through NFL defenses on a consistent basis. People say White has a canon, but his arm seems about average to me for an NFL QB. Vick had supernatural arm-strength. He could seemingly flick his wrist and a throw a 70-yard pass. I think that is what made him a much more attractive prospect than what I see in Pat White.

I would have loved Pat White at Pitt. They might have gone 11-1 or something every year or that USF QB, Matt Grothe. I think I like Grothe a little better than White as an NFL prospect. He is on the short side, but I think he is a better passer than White, but is still a tremendous athlete.

feltdizz
03-17-2009, 12:18 PM
Grothe is decent.. but he is missing something and I'm not talking about height either..

seems like he fades at the midway point each of the last 2 seasons

SteelCzar76
03-18-2009, 09:24 AM
Pat White throws the ball well enough that you have to respect his passing on the collegiate level. His running ability is his most prominent ability. To make it at the NFL level, a QBs passing needs to be at the elite level. There are a number of college QBs that throw well in college and have fans who tout their character and skills, but when they come out, never do anything in the NFL.

So with that in mind,..what say you of the College QB's whom do not throw with good accuracy, lack work ethic and intelligence and pad their stats throwing Deep balls against below average collegiate competition,... but yet are Drafted high and given the opportunity to play because the have prototypical height, weight and "All American Apple Pie" hype ?

ikestops85
03-18-2009, 09:31 AM
Pat White throws the ball well enough that you have to respect his passing on the collegiate level. His running ability is his most prominent ability. To make it at the NFL level, a QBs passing needs to be at the elite level. There are a number of college QBs that throw well in college and have fans who tout their character and skills, but when they come out, never do anything in the NFL.

So with that in mind,..what say you of the College QB's whom do not throw with good accuracy, lack work ethic and intelligence and pad their stats throwing Deep balls against below average collegiate competition,... but yet are Drafted high and given the opportunity to play because the have prototypical height, weight and "All American Apple Pie" hype ?

I say Ryan Leaf won't make it in the NFL :wink:

Steelerphile
03-19-2009, 07:36 AM
Pat White throws the ball well enough that you have to respect his passing on the collegiate level. His running ability is his most prominent ability. To make it at the NFL level, a QBs passing needs to be at the elite level. There are a number of college QBs that throw well in college and have fans who tout their character and skills, but when they come out, never do anything in the NFL.

So with that in mind,..what say you of the College QB's whom do not throw with good accuracy, lack work ethic and intelligence and pad their stats throwing Deep balls against below average collegiate competition,... but yet are Drafted high and given the opportunity to play because the have prototypical height, weight and "All American Apple Pie" hype ?


I totally disagree with your assessment of Ben Roethlisberger so I would say this is complete BS. Big Ben throws with excellent accuracy, has a better arm than Pat White and has good football intelligence. As far as his work ethic, I am not there to see exactly what he does, bu his results have been very good, so I think his work eithic is probably a lot better than you give him credit for.

feltdizz
03-19-2009, 03:44 PM
Pat White throws the ball well enough that you have to respect his passing on the collegiate level. His running ability is his most prominent ability. To make it at the NFL level, a QBs passing needs to be at the elite level. There are a number of college QBs that throw well in college and have fans who tout their character and skills, but when they come out, never do anything in the NFL.

So with that in mind,..what say you of the College QB's whom do not throw with good accuracy, lack work ethic and intelligence and pad their stats throwing Deep balls against below average collegiate competition,... but yet are Drafted high and given the opportunity to play because the have prototypical height, weight and "All American Apple Pie" hype ?


I totally disagree with your assessment of Ben Roethlisberger so I would say this is complete BS. Big Ben throws with excellent accuracy, has a better arm than Pat White and has good football intelligence. As far as his work ethic, I am not there to see exactly what he does, bu his results have been very good, so I think his work eithic is probably a lot better than you give him credit for.

why wouldn't you give the prototypical QB a shot? the odds are against the short guy who ran 90% of the time..

as far as Big Ben and this guy is concerned do not waste your time.. funny thing is Ben was the last one in the room and fell in our lap.. it wasn't like he was Ryan Leaf and hyped into a top 3 pick.