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Iron Shiek
03-06-2009, 04:19 PM
Well, if Lebeau is comfortable with him, then it seals the deal for me. I already liked Gay and thought he could do whatever needs to be done, but this is a ringing endorsement for letting McFadden walk. Not to say if Bmac can sign reasonably, I wouldn't mind having him. But if not, Gay and a rookie would be cool with me.


LeBeau confident in Gay
The News
If cornerback Bryant McFadden departs Pittsburgh, William Gay would be set to replace him, and he has the confidence of defensive coordinator Dick LeBeau, according to the Pittsburgh Tribune-Review. Said LeBeau, "McFadden started, but William played almost an equal number of snaps, so in my mind that question's already been answered. I think we've got a good, quality player there who should continue to grow."
Our View
Gay had just one interception, but did start four games for the Steelers when they were hit with injuries.

Snatch98
03-06-2009, 04:22 PM
I love William Gay as a player and like him that much more as a individual after the Super Bowl parade and his Lil John impersonation. I'd probably have a Gay jersey if I knew I wouldn't get harassed by the retards out here in Ohio.

Iron Shiek
03-06-2009, 04:27 PM
I love William Gay as a player and like him that much more as a individual after the Super Bowl parade and his Lil John impersonation. I'd probably have a Gay jersey if I knew I wouldn't get harassed by the retards out here in Ohio.


Just get it customized with William Gay....eh...well, that would still seem to garner negative attention.

And you are right about the parade, not just that impersonation, but he just seems to be a really funny dude/joker kind of character...keeps the locker room entertained probably.

mshifko
03-06-2009, 04:32 PM
i knew lebeau thought highly of him because when b-mac came back, he kept rotating the two...gay is a solid player who like lebeau said, will continue to grow...we won't miss b-mac that much if he leaves, however i would love it if he decided to stay put in pittsburgh

RuthlessBurgher
03-06-2009, 05:09 PM
I love William Gay as a player and like him that much more as a individual after the Super Bowl parade and his Lil John impersonation. I'd probably have a Gay jersey if I knew I wouldn't get harassed by the retards out here in Ohio.

Get a Steeler #22 jersey customized with "Lil Jon" or "Crunk" or "Yeah" or "Okay" or "What" on the back.

Jigawatts
03-06-2009, 05:11 PM
I love William Gay as a player and like him that much more as a individual after the Super Bowl parade and his Lil John impersonation. I'd probably have a Gay jersey if I knew I wouldn't get harassed by the retards out here in Ohio.

Get a Steeler #22 jersey customized with "Lil Jon" or "Crunk" or "Yeah" or "Okay" or "What" on the back.

I'd go with "crunk." That would be crunktastic.

MeetJoeGreene
03-06-2009, 05:15 PM
What are Gay's "tangibles" in terms of speed? I mean he was drafted in the 5th round for a reason. Is he slow (i.e 4.6+, medium 4.5-4.6, or sub 4.5).

That doesnt matter a ton for the 3rd corner but for someone that may have to cover a speedy, deep threat regurlary, it matters.

feltdizz
03-06-2009, 05:16 PM
no way.. keep the Gay on the back...

I have never bought a jersey before... but I may get a Gay jersey because I find it hilarious...

We won the SB, get the jersey if you really want it.

phillyesq
03-06-2009, 05:43 PM
What are Gay's "tangibles" in terms of speed? I mean he was drafted in the 5th round for a reason. Is he slow (i.e 4.6+, medium 4.5-4.6, or sub 4.5).

That doesnt matter a ton for the 3rd corner but for someone that may have to cover a speedy, deep threat regurlary, it matters.

I believe that he was very similar to Townsend re: measurables. A bit shorter and slower than the ideal, but a heady, intelligent player. Townsend has certainly done alright, and I think that Gay will as well.

Obviously, B-Mac has better athletic ability, but Gay has already proven very solid, and should only improve.

steelblood
03-06-2009, 05:49 PM
The idea that LeBeau is telling us exactly what he thinks is preposterous. He has NO CHOICE but to give Gay a vote of confidence. He can't say that Gay is not starter material or that we should upgrade at Gay's position because (even if we resign McFadden or draft a CB in the first round) Gay will likely get some starts next season.

phillyesq
03-06-2009, 06:51 PM
The idea that LeBeau is telling us exactly what he thinks is preposterous. He has NO CHOICE but to give Gay a vote of confidence. He can't say that Gay is not starter material or that we should upgrade at Gay's position because (even if we resign McFadden or draft a CB in the first round) Gay will likely get some starts next season.

If he didn't have confidence in Gay, he could have diplomatically said so. One of those "William Gay is a young guy who got so significant playing time, but you can never have too much depth at the CB position" type statements. I think this was more a true endorsement. IMO, Lebeau easily could have campaigned for somebody else, but chose not to do so.

BradshawsHairdresser
03-06-2009, 07:40 PM
LeBeau had to be careful with his words...it's not politically correct to be seen as a Gay-basher...

anger 82&95
03-06-2009, 07:59 PM
What are Gay's "tangibles" in terms of speed? I mean he was drafted in the 5th round for a reason. Is he slow (i.e 4.6+, medium 4.5-4.6, or sub 4.5).

That doesnt matter a ton for the 3rd corner but for someone that may have to cover a speedy, deep threat regurlary, it matters.

Draft day scouting quote: "If there was a single thing that prevented Gay
from being drafted higher, it would be his speed.
One pre-draft publication had him at 4.67 in the
40-yard dash, but his time at the NFL combine
was 4.49. When that is combined with a rather
slight build for the NFL, it can push a cornerback
into the second day of the draft."

WoodleyofTroy
03-06-2009, 08:25 PM
In my opinion his bread and butter is being the 3rd CB (which is not a bad thing). He can make a lot of plays this way, and it would be a better overall defense if he remained there.

feltdizz
03-07-2009, 12:28 AM
The idea that LeBeau is telling us exactly what he thinks is preposterous. He has NO CHOICE but to give Gay a vote of confidence. He can't say that Gay is not starter material or that we should upgrade at Gay's position because (even if we resign McFadden or draft a CB in the first round) Gay will likely get some starts next season.

umm... it wasn't like Gay was abused like A.Smith when he filled in for BMac.. he actually defended more passes then BMac in that 4 game stint.

steelblood
03-07-2009, 03:43 PM
Feltdizz,

Gay is not a better corner than McFadden. McFadden is more physical and stronger. McFadden was fantastic at rerouting receivers (not measured by stats). He forced receivers to change their route and disrupted the timing of plays. Gay is almost strictly a zone corner as he does not have the strength nor speed to play against top recievers. McFadden was capable of and pretty good at playing both off man and press coverage in addition to zone. Gay has great savvy (like townshend); he does not have plus physical ability. As Rod Woodson observed, before he got injured, McFadden was playing the best corner on our team.

steelblood
03-07-2009, 03:46 PM
The idea that LeBeau is telling us exactly what he thinks is preposterous. He has NO CHOICE but to give Gay a vote of confidence. He can't say that Gay is not starter material or that we should upgrade at Gay's position because (even if we resign McFadden or draft a CB in the first round) Gay will likely get some starts next season.

If he didn't have confidence in Gay, he could have diplomatically said so. One of those "William Gay is a young guy who got so significant playing time, but you can never have too much depth at the CB position" type statements. I think this was more a true endorsement. IMO, Lebeau easily could have campaigned for somebody else, but chose not to do so.

I don't agree. You don't mess with a young corner's confidence. If he might start next year. You say, he is ready. You don't hem and haw about it.

And, who "else" was he going to endorse? Townshend is now strictly a nickel corner. There really isn't anyone else to endorse. I don't get that comment.

Steel Life
03-07-2009, 04:02 PM
Here's the pre-draft low-down on Gay:

A starter in parts of each of his first three seasons, Gay emerged as one of the top pass thieves in the nation as a senior, ranking tied for 14th in Division 1-A with six interceptions. His coverage skills helped the Cardinals rank 23rd nationally with a 110.86 pass efficiency defense rating in 2006.

Gay excelled in football and track at Rickards High School. He was rated a three-star prospect by TheInsiders.com and was the nation's 67th-ranked cornerback by that recruiting service. He was also a three-star prospect by Rivals.com, adding team co-MVP and All-Big Bend Area honors during his final season.

Gay played quarterback, wide receiver and safety for the Raiders. He racked up more than 1,200 all-purpose yards and 12 touchdowns as a junior. As a senior, he notched 1,035 yards and seven scores passing, 1,237 yards and 11 scores receiving and 82 tackles, 14 pass break-ups and nine interceptions at defensive back.

As a true freshman, Gay started once at left cornerback and twice at nickel back for Louisville in 2003, earning Conference USA All-Freshman Team honors. He collected 33 tackles (21 solos) with a sack, two stops for losses, an interception and eight deflected passes during his first year with the Cardinals.

As a sophomore, Gay shifted to right cornerback, starting 11 times. He totaled 21 tackles (15 solos) with a stop for a loss while also causing a fumble and batting away four passes. A deep calf bruise forced Gay to miss two games and see limited action in another during the 2005 campaign. He still managed to finish with 20 tackles (16 solos), three pass deflections and a forced fumble.

In 2006, Gay led the team and ranked second in the Big East (received first-team honors from the league's coaches) with six interceptions. He also led the team with 13 pass break-ups and finished second on defense with a career-high 60 tackles (48 solos). He added two sacks, six stops for losses and two forced fumbles from his right cornerback position.

In 46 games at Louisville, Gay started 36 contests. He registered 134 tackles (100 solos) with three sacks for minus-11 yards and nine stops for losses of 43 yards. He caused four fumbles, deflected 28 passes and intercepted seven others for 70 yards in returns.



Analysis


Positives: Long-limbed, yet undersized athlete who has good short-area coverage skills, playing with good vision to keep containment in front of him...Has quick feet and natural movement skills in his backpedal, showing the loose hips needed to turn smoothly and transition...Also shows ease of movement when changing direction and soft feet to come out of his breaks cleanly...Has improved his leaping ability and timing to reach and pluck the ball cleanly at its high point...Shows good extension to catch and secure the ball outside his frame...Can flip and run from the press, using his hands effectively to reroute receivers...Shows quickness planting and driving out of his backpedal... Breaks on the ball sharply, competing for it with aggression...Has impressive range, covering ground quickly when beaten...Makes proper body adjustments going up for the ball and strikes low when delivering his tackles.

Negatives: Has a skinny frame that lacks bulk and strength, but he might be at maximum growth potential...Good short-area coverage defender, but peeks into the backfield often and loses relationship with the speedier receivers in the seam...Seems reluctant to come up and support vs. the run...Good open-field hitter, but will try to finesse rather than hit with a thud when playing near the line...Struggles to grasp the playbook and needs more than a few reps to retain...Has good timed speed, but lacks the second gear needed to recover when beaten...Showed improvement in 2006, but in the past, he lacked concentration and would get caught out of position often...Has marginal football character and will set himself apart from teammates at times...Needs to see the play develop, having marginal anticipation skills.

Compares To: REYNALDO HILL-Tennessee...Gay has made great strides in looking the ball in better, resulting in increased interceptions and pass deflections as a senior. He lacks the sand in his pants to lend any type of support inside the box and his frame is likely at maximum growth potential. He has played mostly at right cornerback, but for now he can only hope to fight for a spot in the sub packages.

Pro Day Results
Height: 5101
Weight: 187
40 Yrd Dash: 4.48
20 Yrd Dash: 2.55
10 Yrd Dash: 1.51
225 Lb. Bench Reps: 16
Vertical Jump: 38 1/2
Broad Jump: 9'10"
20 Yrd Shuttle: 4.15
3-Cone Drill: 6.89

steelblood
03-07-2009, 04:10 PM
Here's the pre-draft low-down on Gay:

A starter in parts of each of his first three seasons, Gay emerged as one of the top pass thieves in the nation as a senior, ranking tied for 14th in Division 1-A with six interceptions. His coverage skills helped the Cardinals rank 23rd nationally with a 110.86 pass efficiency defense rating in 2006.

Gay excelled in football and track at Rickards High School. He was rated a three-star prospect by TheInsiders.com and was the nation's 67th-ranked cornerback by that recruiting service. He was also a three-star prospect by Rivals.com, adding team co-MVP and All-Big Bend Area honors during his final season.

Gay played quarterback, wide receiver and safety for the Raiders. He racked up more than 1,200 all-purpose yards and 12 touchdowns as a junior. As a senior, he notched 1,035 yards and seven scores passing, 1,237 yards and 11 scores receiving and 82 tackles, 14 pass break-ups and nine interceptions at defensive back.

As a true freshman, Gay started once at left cornerback and twice at nickel back for Louisville in 2003, earning Conference USA All-Freshman Team honors. He collected 33 tackles (21 solos) with a sack, two stops for losses, an interception and eight deflected passes during his first year with the Cardinals.

As a sophomore, Gay shifted to right cornerback, starting 11 times. He totaled 21 tackles (15 solos) with a stop for a loss while also causing a fumble and batting away four passes. A deep calf bruise forced Gay to miss two games and see limited action in another during the 2005 campaign. He still managed to finish with 20 tackles (16 solos), three pass deflections and a forced fumble.

In 2006, Gay led the team and ranked second in the Big East (received first-team honors from the league's coaches) with six interceptions. He also led the team with 13 pass break-ups and finished second on defense with a career-high 60 tackles (48 solos). He added two sacks, six stops for losses and two forced fumbles from his right cornerback position.

In 46 games at Louisville, Gay started 36 contests. He registered 134 tackles (100 solos) with three sacks for minus-11 yards and nine stops for losses of 43 yards. He caused four fumbles, deflected 28 passes and intercepted seven others for 70 yards in returns.



Analysis


Positives: Long-limbed, yet undersized athlete who has good short-area coverage skills, playing with good vision to keep containment in front of him...Has quick feet and natural movement skills in his backpedal, showing the loose hips needed to turn smoothly and transition...Also shows ease of movement when changing direction and soft feet to come out of his breaks cleanly...Has improved his leaping ability and timing to reach and pluck the ball cleanly at its high point...Shows good extension to catch and secure the ball outside his frame...Can flip and run from the press, using his hands effectively to reroute receivers...Shows quickness planting and driving out of his backpedal... Breaks on the ball sharply, competing for it with aggression...Has impressive range, covering ground quickly when beaten...Makes proper body adjustments going up for the ball and strikes low when delivering his tackles.

Negatives: Has a skinny frame that lacks bulk and strength, but he might be at maximum growth potential...Good short-area coverage defender, but peeks into the backfield often and loses relationship with the speedier receivers in the seam...Seems reluctant to come up and support vs. the run...Good open-field hitter, but will try to finesse rather than hit with a thud when playing near the line...Struggles to grasp the playbook and needs more than a few reps to retain...Has good timed speed, but lacks the second gear needed to recover when beaten...Showed improvement in 2006, but in the past, he lacked concentration and would get caught out of position often...Has marginal football character and will set himself apart from teammates at times...Needs to see the play develop, having marginal anticipation skills.

Compares To: REYNALDO HILL-Tennessee...Gay has made great strides in looking the ball in better, resulting in increased interceptions and pass deflections as a senior. He lacks the sand in his pants to lend any type of support inside the box and his frame is likely at maximum growth potential. He has played mostly at right cornerback, but for now he can only hope to fight for a spot in the sub packages.

Pro Day Results
Height: 5101
Weight: 187
40 Yrd Dash: 4.48
20 Yrd Dash: 2.55
10 Yrd Dash: 1.51
225 Lb. Bench Reps: 16
Vertical Jump: 38 1/2
Broad Jump: 9'10"
20 Yrd Shuttle: 4.15
3-Cone Drill: 6.89

That is pretty fair. Good in short areas/zone coverage. He is not really going to be good long term solution as a starting corner because he is a limited athlete and does not have good size.

RuthlessBurgher
03-07-2009, 05:25 PM
I love William Gay as a player and like him that much more as a individual after the Super Bowl parade and his Lil John impersonation. I'd probably have a Gay jersey if I knew I wouldn't get harassed by the retards out here in Ohio.

Get a Steeler #22 jersey customized with "Lil Jon" or "Crunk" or "Yeah" or "Okay" or "What" on the back.

I'd go with "crunk." That would be crunktastic.

Putting "crunktastic" on the back of a jersey would be even more crunktastic.

RuthlessBurgher
03-07-2009, 05:28 PM
LeBeau had to be careful with his words...it's not politically correct to be seen as a Gay-basher...

You really have to tread lightly when dealing with two guys whose first names are "Willie" and "Dick" and whose last names are "Gay" and the French word for "The Beautiful." :P

steeler_fan_in_t.o.
03-07-2009, 05:59 PM
The idea that LeBeau is telling us exactly what he thinks is preposterous. He has NO CHOICE but to give Gay a vote of confidence. He can't say that Gay is not starter material or that we should upgrade at Gay's position because (even if we resign McFadden or draft a CB in the first round) Gay will likely get some starts next season.

Lebeau has already told us what he thinks of Gay, not in his words, but in his actions. If he did not think so highly of him then BMac would have returned as the definite #2 and Gay could have split nickel time with Deshea. Instead he split time as the #2 with BMac. Was this done for political correctness? To make Gay feel better? No, it was earned.

Lebeau has full confidence in William Gay.

steelblood
03-08-2009, 02:27 AM
The idea that LeBeau is telling us exactly what he thinks is preposterous. He has NO CHOICE but to give Gay a vote of confidence. He can't say that Gay is not starter material or that we should upgrade at Gay's position because (even if we resign McFadden or draft a CB in the first round) Gay will likely get some starts next season.

Lebeau has already told us what he thinks of Gay, not in his words, but in his actions. If he did not think so highly of him then BMac would have returned as the definite #2 and Gay could have split nickel time with Deshea. Instead he split time as the #2 with BMac. Was this done for political correctness? To make Gay feel better? No, it was earned.

Lebeau has full confidence in William Gay.

Did Gay split snaps in the Super Bowl? I don't think so.

feltdizz
03-08-2009, 04:20 AM
Feltdizz,

Gay is not a better corner than McFadden. McFadden is more physical and stronger. McFadden was fantastic at rerouting receivers (not measured by stats). He forced receivers to change their route and disrupted the timing of plays. Gay is almost strictly a zone corner as he does not have the strength nor speed to play against top recievers. McFadden was capable of and pretty good at playing both off man and press coverage in addition to zone. Gay has great savvy (like townshend); he does not have plus physical ability. As Rod Woodson observed, before he got injured, McFadden was playing the best corner on our team.

2008 stats....

BMac tackles 41 solo 37 int 2 pass deflections 8
Gay tackles 41 solo 33 int 1 pass deflections 7

numbers do not lie....

Woodsen picked us to lose some games we won last year too...

just sayin.

feltdizz
03-08-2009, 04:21 AM
Here's the pre-draft low-down on Gay:

A starter in parts of each of his first three seasons, Gay emerged as one of the top pass thieves in the nation as a senior, ranking tied for 14th in Division 1-A with six interceptions. His coverage skills helped the Cardinals rank 23rd nationally with a 110.86 pass efficiency defense rating in 2006.

Gay excelled in football and track at Rickards High School. He was rated a three-star prospect by TheInsiders.com and was the nation's 67th-ranked cornerback by that recruiting service. He was also a three-star prospect by Rivals.com, adding team co-MVP and All-Big Bend Area honors during his final season.

Gay played quarterback, wide receiver and safety for the Raiders. He racked up more than 1,200 all-purpose yards and 12 touchdowns as a junior. As a senior, he notched 1,035 yards and seven scores passing, 1,237 yards and 11 scores receiving and 82 tackles, 14 pass break-ups and nine interceptions at defensive back.

As a true freshman, Gay started once at left cornerback and twice at nickel back for Louisville in 2003, earning Conference USA All-Freshman Team honors. He collected 33 tackles (21 solos) with a sack, two stops for losses, an interception and eight deflected passes during his first year with the Cardinals.

As a sophomore, Gay shifted to right cornerback, starting 11 times. He totaled 21 tackles (15 solos) with a stop for a loss while also causing a fumble and batting away four passes. A deep calf bruise forced Gay to miss two games and see limited action in another during the 2005 campaign. He still managed to finish with 20 tackles (16 solos), three pass deflections and a forced fumble.

In 2006, Gay led the team and ranked second in the Big East (received first-team honors from the league's coaches) with six interceptions. He also led the team with 13 pass break-ups and finished second on defense with a career-high 60 tackles (48 solos). He added two sacks, six stops for losses and two forced fumbles from his right cornerback position.

In 46 games at Louisville, Gay started 36 contests. He registered 134 tackles (100 solos) with three sacks for minus-11 yards and nine stops for losses of 43 yards. He caused four fumbles, deflected 28 passes and intercepted seven others for 70 yards in returns.



Analysis


Positives: Long-limbed, yet undersized athlete who has good short-area coverage skills, playing with good vision to keep containment in front of him...Has quick feet and natural movement skills in his backpedal, showing the loose hips needed to turn smoothly and transition...Also shows ease of movement when changing direction and soft feet to come out of his breaks cleanly...Has improved his leaping ability and timing to reach and pluck the ball cleanly at its high point...Shows good extension to catch and secure the ball outside his frame...Can flip and run from the press, using his hands effectively to reroute receivers...Shows quickness planting and driving out of his backpedal... Breaks on the ball sharply, competing for it with aggression...Has impressive range, covering ground quickly when beaten...Makes proper body adjustments going up for the ball and strikes low when delivering his tackles.

Negatives: Has a skinny frame that lacks bulk and strength, but he might be at maximum growth potential...Good short-area coverage defender, but peeks into the backfield often and loses relationship with the speedier receivers in the seam...Seems reluctant to come up and support vs. the run...Good open-field hitter, but will try to finesse rather than hit with a thud when playing near the line...Struggles to grasp the playbook and needs more than a few reps to retain...Has good timed speed, but lacks the second gear needed to recover when beaten...Showed improvement in 2006, but in the past, he lacked concentration and would get caught out of position often...Has marginal football character and will set himself apart from teammates at times...Needs to see the play develop, having marginal anticipation skills.

Compares To: REYNALDO HILL-Tennessee...Gay has made great strides in looking the ball in better, resulting in increased interceptions and pass deflections as a senior. He lacks the sand in his pants to lend any type of support inside the box and his frame is likely at maximum growth potential. He has played mostly at right cornerback, but for now he can only hope to fight for a spot in the sub packages.

Pro Day Results
Height: 5101
Weight: 187
40 Yrd Dash: 4.48
20 Yrd Dash: 2.55
10 Yrd Dash: 1.51
225 Lb. Bench Reps: 16
Vertical Jump: 38 1/2
Broad Jump: 9'10"
20 Yrd Shuttle: 4.15
3-Cone Drill: 6.89

That is pretty fair. Good in short areas/zone coverage. He is not really going to be good long term solution as a starting corner because he is a limited athlete and does not have good size.

cause you say so? if Deshae can run so can Gay....

steelblood
03-08-2009, 10:12 AM
Feltdizz,

Gay is not a better corner than McFadden. McFadden is more physical and stronger. McFadden was fantastic at rerouting receivers (not measured by stats). He forced receivers to change their route and disrupted the timing of plays. Gay is almost strictly a zone corner as he does not have the strength nor speed to play against top recievers. McFadden was capable of and pretty good at playing both off man and press coverage in addition to zone. Gay has great savvy (like townshend); he does not have plus physical ability. As Rod Woodson observed, before he got injured, McFadden was playing the best corner on our team.

2008 stats....

BMac tackles 41 solo 37 int 2 pass deflections 8
Gay tackles 41 solo 33 int 1 pass deflections 7

numbers do not lie....

Woodsen picked us to lose some games we won last year too...

just sayin.

If you honestly believe that those stats mean Gay is equal to or better than McFadden, then you simply don't understand football. Champ Bailey until the last year or so was the best corner in football. He covered his man so well that his stats were often pedestrian. A good corner can often face very few balls thrown his way when on top of his game because QBs will stay away from him. Why didn't Champ Bailey lead the league in pass deflections, tackles or ints? Because his man or zone was covered and QBs stayed away from him.

Furthermore, as I've already stated, McFAdden is very physical and excels at rerouting receivers. When he effectively does this, the QB will not throw the ball to McFadden's man because he is not in the right place or the timing of the play has been disrupted.

I'm not saying that Gay is a bad player. But, your stats don't tell the story when it comes to cornerback play. Corners who are playing well discourage a QB from throwing their way.

feltdizz
03-08-2009, 10:57 AM
I don't know blood.. you are talking about Bmac like he is Ike Taylor...

we pretty much play a box and one with our DB's and Ike plays man to man on the best WR...

I don't understand how Bmac is talked about like he is a shut down corner when he played zone just like every other corner we had. If Bmac was everything you say he is he would have been picked up quick.

I would love to keep Bmac but I have no worries because we saw how our D was without him for 5 games last year and there was no drop off.

stlrz d
03-08-2009, 11:07 AM
If you honestly believe that those stats mean Gay is equal to or better than McFadden, then you simply don't understand football. Champ Bailey until the last year or so was the best corner in football. He covered his man so well that his stats were often pedestrian. A good corner can often face very few balls thrown his way when on top of his game because QBs will stay away from him. Why didn't Champ Bailey lead the league in pass deflections, tackles or ints? Because his man or zone was covered and QBs stayed away from him.

Furthermore, as I've already stated, McFAdden is very physical and excels at rerouting receivers. When he effectively does this, the QB will not throw the ball to McFadden's man because he is not in the right place or the timing of the play has been disrupted.

I'm not saying that Gay is a bad player. But, your stats don't tell the story when it comes to cornerback play. Corners who are playing well discourage a QB from throwing their way.

How does he do that when our corners are rarely within 12-15 yards at the snap of the ball?

feltdizz
03-08-2009, 11:55 AM
If you honestly believe that those stats mean Gay is equal to or better than McFadden, then you simply don't understand football. Champ Bailey until the last year or so was the best corner in football. He covered his man so well that his stats were often pedestrian. A good corner can often face very few balls thrown his way when on top of his game because QBs will stay away from him. Why didn't Champ Bailey lead the league in pass deflections, tackles or ints? Because his man or zone was covered and QBs stayed away from him.

Furthermore, as I've already stated, McFAdden is very physical and excels at rerouting receivers. When he effectively does this, the QB will not throw the ball to McFadden's man because he is not in the right place or the timing of the play has been disrupted.

I'm not saying that Gay is a bad player. But, your stats don't tell the story when it comes to cornerback play. Corners who are playing well discourage a QB from throwing their way.

How does he do that when our corners are rarely within 12-15 yards at the snap of the ball?

maybe he meant in college? :D

our CB's play zone all day long...

steelblood
03-08-2009, 03:31 PM
If you honestly believe that those stats mean Gay is equal to or better than McFadden, then you simply don't understand football. Champ Bailey until the last year or so was the best corner in football. He covered his man so well that his stats were often pedestrian. A good corner can often face very few balls thrown his way when on top of his game because QBs will stay away from him. Why didn't Champ Bailey lead the league in pass deflections, tackles or ints? Because his man or zone was covered and QBs stayed away from him.

Furthermore, as I've already stated, McFAdden is very physical and excels at rerouting receivers. When he effectively does this, the QB will not throw the ball to McFadden's man because he is not in the right place or the timing of the play has been disrupted.

I'm not saying that Gay is a bad player. But, your stats don't tell the story when it comes to cornerback play. Corners who are playing well discourage a QB from throwing their way.

How does he do that when our corners are rarely within 12-15 yards at the snap of the ball?

maybe he meant in college? :D

our CB's play zone all day long...

We play man and match up zone a lot. Our corners played closer to the line more often this year. I do agree that we still give up way too much cushion though.

steelblood
03-08-2009, 03:39 PM
I don't know blood.. you are talking about Bmac like he is Ike Taylor...

we pretty much play a box and one with our DB's and Ike plays man to man on the best WR...

I don't understand how Bmac is talked about like he is a shut down corner when he played zone just like every other corner we had. If Bmac was everything you say he is he would have been picked up quick.

I would love to keep Bmac but I have no worries because we saw how our D was without him for 5 games last year and there was no drop off.

I think you are misunderstanding me. I don't think BMac is a great corner. I think he is solid. My point is that Gay is a full notch below him and just because LeBeau said to the press that he has full confidence in Gay, it isn't necessarily true. LeBeau would never tell us what he really thinks of Gay or bash him. It just isn't his way.

Also, we play that box in one look occasionally, but it is not the norm. I'd say we mostly play match up short area zone and off man (a three deep look).

steelblood
03-08-2009, 03:50 PM
Feltdizz,

Gay is not a better corner than McFadden. McFadden is more physical and stronger. McFadden was fantastic at rerouting receivers (not measured by stats). He forced receivers to change their route and disrupted the timing of plays. Gay is almost strictly a zone corner as he does not have the strength nor speed to play against top recievers. McFadden was capable of and pretty good at playing both off man and press coverage in addition to zone. Gay has great savvy (like townshend); he does not have plus physical ability. As Rod Woodson observed, before he got injured, McFadden was playing the best corner on our team.

2008 stats....

BMac tackles 41 solo 37 int 2 pass deflections 8
Gay tackles 41 solo 33 int 1 pass deflections 7

numbers do not lie....

Woodsen picked us to lose some games we won last year too...

just sayin.

And to drive home the fact that number are not an accurate reflection of how a corner plays. Namdi Asomugha is regarded by many as the best corner in the NFL. He was 70th in passes defended this year with 10. Leon Hall of Cincinnati led the league with 27.

Their full numbers.

Leon Hall 75 tackles 27 passes defended 3 INT (16 games)
Namdi Asomugha 40 tackles 10 passes defended 1 INT (15 games)

I guess you'd rather have Hall?

feltdizz
03-08-2009, 08:27 PM
Feltdizz,

Gay is not a better corner than McFadden. McFadden is more physical and stronger. McFadden was fantastic at rerouting receivers (not measured by stats). He forced receivers to change their route and disrupted the timing of plays. Gay is almost strictly a zone corner as he does not have the strength nor speed to play against top recievers. McFadden was capable of and pretty good at playing both off man and press coverage in addition to zone. Gay has great savvy (like townshend); he does not have plus physical ability. As Rod Woodson observed, before he got injured, McFadden was playing the best corner on our team.

2008 stats....

BMac tackles 41 solo 37 int 2 pass deflections 8
Gay tackles 41 solo 33 int 1 pass deflections 7

numbers do not lie....

Woodsen picked us to lose some games we won last year too...

just sayin.

And to drive home the fact that number are not an accurate reflection of how a corner plays. Namdi Asomugha is regarded by many as the best corner in the NFL. He was 70th in passes defended this year with 10. Leon Hall of Cincinnati led the league with 27.

Their full numbers.

Leon Hall 75 tackles 27 passes defended 3 INT (16 games)
Namdi Asomugha 40 tackles 10 passes defended 1 INT (15 games)

I guess you'd rather have Hall?

Dude.. you are talking about BMac like he is a lock down man to man bump and run CB...

I hate to break it to you but Bmac was a solid zone coverage CB.. nothing more..
do you really think Bmac signing with AZ for 5 mill a season was too expensive for the Steelers if he was the caliber you think he is?

you talk of Champ Bailey and Asomugha.. those guys are bump and run island CB's who demand top dollars..

I showed the stats of both because they were on the same team.. neither was our #1 CB so I don't get where you are trying to go with this argument.

I think we differ because I'm looking at how Gay filled in for Bmac.. and you are talking more #1 CB regarding stats and worth...but I don't see Bmac as anything more then a servicable DB.. I would love to keep him but I'm confident Gay will get the job done.

steeler_fan_in_t.o.
03-09-2009, 10:56 AM
Did Gay split snaps in the Super Bowl? I don't think so.

I'd think that has more to do with the fact that Arizona has two receivers with an exceptional combination of size, strength, and skill. They are probably the only team who can put out two receivers like that, thus requiring two big physical corners. It had more to do with the opponent than the magnitude of the game.

steelblood
03-09-2009, 01:19 PM
Feltdizz,

Gay is not a better corner than McFadden. McFadden is more physical and stronger. McFadden was fantastic at rerouting receivers (not measured by stats). He forced receivers to change their route and disrupted the timing of plays. Gay is almost strictly a zone corner as he does not have the strength nor speed to play against top recievers. McFadden was capable of and pretty good at playing both off man and press coverage in addition to zone. Gay has great savvy (like townshend); he does not have plus physical ability. As Rod Woodson observed, before he got injured, McFadden was playing the best corner on our team.

2008 stats....

BMac tackles 41 solo 37 int 2 pass deflections 8
Gay tackles 41 solo 33 int 1 pass deflections 7

numbers do not lie....

Woodsen picked us to lose some games we won last year too...

just sayin.

And to drive home the fact that number are not an accurate reflection of how a corner plays. Namdi Asomugha is regarded by many as the best corner in the NFL. He was 70th in passes defended this year with 10. Leon Hall of Cincinnati led the league with 27.

Their full numbers.

Leon Hall 75 tackles 27 passes defended 3 INT (16 games)
Namdi Asomugha 40 tackles 10 passes defended 1 INT (15 games)

I guess you'd rather have Hall?

Dude.. you are talking about BMac like he is a lock down man to man bump and run CB...

I hate to break it to you but Bmac was a solid zone coverage CB.. nothing more..
do you really think Bmac signing with AZ for 5 mill a season was too expensive for the Steelers if he was the caliber you think he is?

you talk of Champ Bailey and Asomugha.. those guys are bump and run island CB's who demand top dollars..

I showed the stats of both because they were on the same team.. neither was our #1 CB so I don't get where you are trying to go with this argument.

I think we differ because I'm looking at how Gay filled in for Bmac.. and you are talking more #1 CB regarding stats and worth...but I don't see Bmac as anything more then a servicable DB.. I would love to keep him but I'm confident Gay will get the job done.

This is frustrating because I have told you that I don't feel that BMac is great, just that he is solid and a full notch better than Gay (who doesn't really have the same tools). But, you continue to assert that I am saying something that I am not. You also claim that BMac has only played straight zone (which simply isn't true - as he has played match up zone, man coverage, underneath man, and some bump and run). You also claimed that stats don't lie (i.e. they accurately reflect quality of corner play). But, you are not willing to concede an obvious point that good corners often don't have great stats (no matter what defense they are in) because they get less balls thrown to their man or zone than lesser corners. Even in the case of second corners like Gay or BMac, quality of coverage can obviously effect the number of balls thrown to their man or zone which directly effect tackles, passes defended, and even picks.

You are certainly entitled to your opinion. And, in this case, with BMac not a Cardinal, I really hope that you are right and I am wrong about Gay. Go Steelers.

feltdizz
03-09-2009, 02:29 PM
This is frustrating because I have told you that I don't feel that BMac is great, just that he is solid and a full notch better than Gay (who doesn't really have the same tools). But, you continue to assert that I am saying something that I am not. You also claim that BMac has only played straight zone (which simply isn't true - as he has played match up zone, man coverage, underneath man, and some bump and run). You also claimed that stats don't lie (i.e. they accurately reflect quality of corner play). But, you are not willing to concede an obvious point that good corners often don't have great stats (no matter what defense they are in) because they get less balls thrown to their man or zone than lesser corners. Even in the case of second corners like Gay or BMac, quality of coverage can obviously effect the number of balls thrown to their man or zone which directly effect tackles, passes defended, and even picks.

You are certainly entitled to your opinion. And, in this case, with BMac not a Cardinal, I really hope that you are right and I am wrong about Gay. Go Steelers.

we are close.. LOL!! I think we differ in that I don't think our D gave BMac the chance to show what you say he possesses... I can honestly say that while BMac may have done all those coverages you claim.. he never was a bump and run corner with us.. we never ran bump and run... until the SB..

I understand and agree good corners see less passes because... who throws to a covered guy? But BMac flirted with the starting line up he wasn't a 16 game CB while we had him..

that was why I showed their stats side by side.. and even if Gay was tested more due to being a step slower/notch lower then Bmac he stepped up IMO.

frankthetank1
03-12-2009, 10:08 AM
This is frustrating because I have told you that I don't feel that BMac is great, just that he is solid and a full notch better than Gay (who doesn't really have the same tools). But, you continue to assert that I am saying something that I am not. You also claim that BMac has only played straight zone (which simply isn't true - as he has played match up zone, man coverage, underneath man, and some bump and run). You also claimed that stats don't lie (i.e. they accurately reflect quality of corner play). But, you are not willing to concede an obvious point that good corners often don't have great stats (no matter what defense they are in) because they get less balls thrown to their man or zone than lesser corners. Even in the case of second corners like Gay or BMac, quality of coverage can obviously effect the number of balls thrown to their man or zone which directly effect tackles, passes defended, and even picks.

You are certainly entitled to your opinion. And, in this case, with BMac not a Cardinal, I really hope that you are right and I am wrong about Gay. Go Steelers.

we are close.. LOL!! I think we differ in that I don't think our D gave BMac the chance to show what you say he possesses... I can honestly say that while BMac may have done all those coverages you claim.. he never was a bump and run corner with us.. we never ran bump and run... until the SB..

I understand and agree good corners see less passes because... who throws to a covered guy? But BMac flirted with the starting line up he wasn't a 16 game CB while we had him..

that was why I showed their stats side by side.. and even if Gay was tested more due to being a step slower/notch lower then Bmac he stepped up IMO.

i agree but i think a lot of the reason why gay was tested more is because he was a 2nd year player and not proven (not like bmac ever proved a whole lot as a steeler)

feltdizz
03-12-2009, 02:26 PM
I agree frank.. I think Gay is just as good as Bmac but I don't want to go back into why... just my opinion. We all know the new CB will get tested but I don't remember Gay getting beat that badly to where Gay is a downgrade.

Maybe it's my bias.. I remember Gay from Louisville.. but dude is always around the ball. I can't say BMac ever made me say wow.. not saying he wasn't good but 5 mill for a CB pretty much tells me he wasn't as valuable as some may believe on the market.

frankthetank1
03-15-2009, 11:35 AM
I agree frank.. I think Gay is just as good as Bmac but I don't want to go back into why... just my opinion. We all know the new CB will get tested but I don't remember Gay getting beat that badly to where Gay is a downgrade.

Maybe it's my bias.. I remember Gay from Louisville.. but dude is always around the ball. I can't say BMac ever made me say wow.. not saying he wasn't good but 5 mill for a CB pretty much tells me he wasn't as valuable as some may believe on the market.

i agree bmac is average nothing more than that. you dont pay an average player 5 mill a year especially when you got guys like harrison and heath free agents in the near future. gay in 2 years is better than bmac was