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fordfixer
03-03-2009, 01:22 AM
Third proposal between Steelers, Harrison
By Mike Prisuta, TRIBUNE-REVIEW
Tuesday, March 3, 2009

http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/pittsbu ... 14175.html (http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/pittsburghtrib/sports/steelers/s_614175.html)

Mike Prisuta is a sports columnist for the Tribune-Review. He can be reached via e-mail or at 412-320-7923.

The $100 million free-agent contract given to defensive tackle Albert Haynesworth by the Washington Redskins hasn't affected negotiations between the Steelers and linebacker James Harrison. Yet, Harrison's representative is "disappointed" by the lack of progress toward a long-term contract extension for his client.

"We're struggling with this," agent Bill Parise said Monday morning. "We don't seem to be making the progress I felt we would have made. I'm disappointed but not discouraged."

Parise said he talked on "a couple occasions" yesterday with Steelers' director of football operations Kevin Colbert and Steelers' business and football administration coordinator Omar Khan.

Those discussions, Parise said, resulted in the eventual submission of a revised contract proposal for Harrison.

"It's extremely similar to the previous (two) proposals submitted," Parise said. "It's less in value than we asked for the first time, so we came down. My expectation would be that the Steelers would come up.

"We're working at this. We'll see what happens from here."

Parise said he anticipated a response from the Steelers in the next 24 to 48 hours.

The Steelers, per club policy, do not comment publicly on contract negotiations.

Haynesworth, formerly of the Tennessee Titans, agreed last week to a seven-year deal with the Redskins, one worth approximately $100 million. It included an NFL-record $41 million guaranteed.

The Steelers signed quarterback Ben Roethlisberger to a $102 million deal last year.

Harrison is scheduled to become an unrestricted free agent following the 2009 season, the last year of a four-year, $5.5 million deal signed in April 2006. That contract included a $1.375 million signing bonus.

He earned a $1.2 million base salary in 2008, when he was named the NFL Defensive Player of the Year and helped lead the Steelers to victory in Super Bowl XLIII.

"We're just not doing well," Parise said. "This is not going as well as it should or it could. Both sides are being challenged to get this accomplished.

"We clearly want to be here and stay here. James has a home here and family an hour-and-a-half away. I'm here, we love this and this is our goal. And our request is by no means a reach.

"We're not anywhere near Haynesworth numbers. We're nowhere near Ben's numbers. We're not asking for him to be the highest-paid Steelers player."

Although he declined to identify a timetable for getting an agreement hammered out, Parise made it clear he's operating under such a parameter.

"We're not going to do this forever," he said. "If we can't get something done in the very near future, it's going to be a negative result. There are two outcomes, good and bad. Both are on the table."

The Steelers haven't signed a free agent from another team or hosted one for a visit since the NFL's free-agency period began at 12:01 a.m. on Friday.

Still, they've been busy.

Offensive tackle Max Starks has been signed to a one-year, $8.451 million contract as the team's franchise player with the idea of eventually working out a long-term deal.

Guard Chris Kemoeatu has agreed to a five-year contract that could be worth as much as $20 million.

Offensive tackle Willie Colon has been offered a one-year, $2.198 million contract as a restricted free agent.

Tight end/fullback Sean McHugh has agreed to a three-year, $2.57 million contract with a $390,000 signing bonus.

And cornerback/special-teams player Anthony Madison has been offered a one-year deal for $1.01 million.

"The Steelers have done some interesting things this free-agent period," Parise said. "We need to fit in there. They keep saying we're the most important thing, but I don't feel the love.

"Our relationship is still strong; we're having no trouble talking. Agreeing, we seem to be having some difficultly with that."

Chadman
03-03-2009, 01:27 AM
Just wondering....if Harrison remains on his current contract, and the Steelers don't dump Foote...

and if they DO draft an ILB this draft...

Could Harrison be let to walk, Timmons to OLB, and then the rookie & Foote take over the middle (as Farrior rides off into the sunset...)?

RuthlessBurgher
03-03-2009, 01:36 AM
One side of this negotiation (the agent) is making this public, trying to get public sentiment on his player's side. The other is quietly going about its business. Which side looks more desperate to you? A Harrison extension is still the most important thing that the team wants to do this off-season. It is just that there are other things that have been more pressing this week. Kemoeatu was talking to the Jets, and the Steelers wanted him back. It was a time-sensitive thing, so the Steelers signed him right away before he followed Faneca to New York. Nate was talking to the Titans, and the Steelers may or may not have wanted him back. It was a time-sensitive thing, and Nate ultimately left for Tennessee. McFadden is talking to the Cardinals, and the Steelers seem to want him back. It is a time-sensitive thing, so likely the majority of our front office's attention is likely now focused on BMac if they want to prevent him from going to Arizona. By comparison, the Harrison extension is not a time-sensitive thing. In fact, in order to make an extension for Harrison happen, a couple of other dominos probably have to fall first. They may need to clear cap space by signing Starks to a long term deal which would drop his cap value in the first year of the deal below that of the $8.5 million franchise number. They also may need to reduce Hines' cap hit by extending his deal a few years with a Farrior-like contract that allows him to retire as a Steeler. While Harrison is priority #1 in terms of what the team feels is most important to them this offseason, it is not priority #1 in terms of what the team will focus on first, because there are other more time-sensitive issues that need to be taken care of first. It's that simple.

sd steel
03-03-2009, 01:47 AM
Don't get me wrong, because I love Harrison, but it looks like his agent is playing hard ball. James is 30, and he has had 2 fantastic seasons, but he is barely 6 ft tall, and he is a product of the system. We have Woodley and Timmons and Farrior for at least 2 more years, and we are bound to bust another great LB in this draft. Basically we could lose Harrison after this year, and I bet we will fill his spot with a young new stud. I like his attitude and his story, but i wouldn't break the bank on him.

NorCal-Steeler
03-03-2009, 02:07 AM
Bruce Davis still on the team and how is his devolopment comeing along? I'd love to keep Harrison but we have him locked down for next year and another if we franchise him by then Ward should be about done. We are deep enough at LB that we shouldnt be concerned about 2 years from now plus it will be uncapped.

AkronSteel
03-03-2009, 03:49 AM
I don't see this thing taking long to get done! It seems like a quality negotiation and that the Steelers have the upper hand! I wanna see James get his due but the Steelers are in a position where they don't exactly have to bend over the barrel to sign him. I think eventually we will see a contract around 5 years @ 42 million with 20 or so guaranteed! I think that Hines will rework his deal to add a couple of years and reduce his cap hit! I could see Deshea not being around if BMac is resigned! I could see him getting cut and then coming back at the veteran min like Troy Brown did in NE for a couple of years. Either way this thing will get done and then the team can start working on an extension for Heath and looking towards the future with Tone and Wood!

Mister Pittsburgh
03-03-2009, 08:37 AM
Just wondering....if Harrison remains on his current contract, and the Steelers don't dump Foote...

and if they DO draft an ILB this draft...

Could Harrison be let to walk, Timmons to OLB, and then the rookie & Foote take over the middle (as Farrior rides off into the sunset...)?

To be honest these are my exact thoughts. If the Steelers feel like there is no way they can come up to meet Harrisons demands, they why just let him walk after next year to sign a monster deal elsewhere and get at most a 3rd round compensatory pick. If you traded him you could get a first round pick for him by shipping him to one of the plethora of teams converting to the 3-4. What would the defensive player of the year go for on the open market? Timmons was drafted to be an OLB and with his speed off the edge could be lethal out there. We still have Bruce Davis, have Larry Foote through this year, and Keyaron Fox looked very athletic in special teams.

I would hate to lose Harrison, but if they aren't going to sign him then get as much return as possible off of him.

Oviedo
03-03-2009, 08:53 AM
To paraphrase a familiar saying "It is about the symbol on the right side of the helmet, not the name on the back of the jersey."

Harrsion is a very good player who just completed a great season. He realizes that he is over 30 and this is his last pay day but great players have come and gone through the Steelers line up. Harrison and his agent are playing a tricky game because he has to play next season and if hurt, which is very possible given his physical style, his value as a 31 year old LB will be much less than it is right now. Holding out isn't really an option because that would likely also decrease his value.

The Steelers will not allow themselves to get into a Jason Gildon situation again and sign a LB who can't contribute through his contract. I think 4 years/$32M with $16M guaranteed is a more than a fair offer. More than that or longer than that I think the Steelers are making a mistake.

SMASHMOUTHFOOTBALL
03-03-2009, 09:08 AM
Why can't we keep him this year for the same contract, act like we really want to get a deal done but just couldn't then franchise tag him for 2010. By then he is 33 and then we can say bye bye.

Northern_Blitz
03-03-2009, 09:11 AM
Just wondering....if Harrison remains on his current contract, and the Steelers don't dump Foote...

and if they DO draft an ILB this draft...

Could Harrison be let to walk, Timmons to OLB, and then the rookie & Foote take over the middle (as Farrior rides off into the sunset...)?

This, plus the year Harrison has left, plus the franchise tag, are the reasons that the Steelers hold all the cards in this negotiation. Having Harrison definately makes Woodley better. But will that be true after two more seasons (1 contract + 1 tag). If Davis comes along, we might not even need to move Timmons.

If what the agent says is true, I think this is looking more and more like the way it will pan out. As many have said, we need cap room to sign good young players. I don't necessarily mind letting Harrison walk after a year or two.

At the risk of sounding like DVS, it might also be worth seeing what someone would give up for him before the draft (if negotiations stall). Do you think that a reigning NFL DMVP would be worth a first to a team making a switch to a 3 - 4? I don't think I'd do this unless the deal was sweet, but we do have four very good LBs we can field if we didn't have Harrison. An extra day one pick could be used to get another LB, or to get some help on either line.


"We're not anywhere near Haynesworth numbers. We're nowhere near Ben's numbers. We're not asking for him to be the highest-paid Steelers player."

Anyone else think that this means they asking for him to be the highest paid player on D? It's an interesting question whether he's worth more than Troy.

Oviedo
03-03-2009, 09:15 AM
Just wondering....if Harrison remains on his current contract, and the Steelers don't dump Foote...

and if they DO draft an ILB this draft...

Could Harrison be let to walk, Timmons to OLB, and then the rookie & Foote take over the middle (as Farrior rides off into the sunset...)?

This, plus the year Harrison has left, plus the franchise tag, are the reasons that the Steelers hold all the cards in this negotiation. Having Harrison definately makes Woodley better. But will that be true after two more seasons (1 contract + 1 tag). If Davis comes along, we might not even need to move Timmons.

If what the agent says is true, I think this is looking more and more like the way it will pan out. As many have said, we need cap room to sign good young players. I don't necessarily mind letting Harrison walk after a year or two.

At the risk of sounding like DVS, it might also be worth seeing what someone would give up for him before the draft (if negotiations stall). Do you think that a reigning NFL DMVP would be worth a first to a team making a switch to a 3 - 4? I don't think I'd do this unless the deal was sweet, but we do have four very good LBs we can field if we didn't have Harrison. An extra day one pick could be used to get another LB, or to get some help on either line.


"We're not anywhere near Haynesworth numbers. We're nowhere near Ben's numbers. We're not asking for him to be the highest-paid Steelers player."

Anyone else think that this means they asking for him to be the highest paid player on D? It's an interesting question whether he's worth more than Troy.

Just read this reference your comment about Troy


On the one-year anniversary of Ben Roethlisberger's $102 million signing, the Tribune-Review is reporting that talks between the Steelers and James Harrison's agent are going nowhere. While Harrison still has a year remaining on his contract (Roethlisberger had two), the Steelers would like to finish a deal with their No. 1 off-season priority to see where they stand for the remainder of the spring and summer re-signing period. Of course, the Steelers are hesitant to pay Harrison (31 on May 4) much more than their current highest-paid defender, Troy Polamalu (28 on April 19), who averages $7.55 million per year.

I have to say I agree that he is not worth more. It is not a coincidence that his best season coincided with the emergence of Woodley. They are mutually beneficial for each other, but Woodley has much more upside.

Steelgal
03-03-2009, 09:16 AM
Why can't we keep him this year for the same contract, act like we really want to get a deal done but just couldn't then franchise tag him for 2010. By then he is 33 and then we can say bye bye.

We could do that and I'm sure some organizations might, but the Rooney's are too classy. If we're not going to pay him the big bucks that he wants, I believe they'll let him test free agency next year and get paid elsewhere.

RuthlessBurgher
03-03-2009, 12:08 PM
[quote=Chadman]Just wondering....if Harrison remains on his current contract, and the Steelers don't dump Foote...

and if they DO draft an ILB this draft...

Could Harrison be let to walk, Timmons to OLB, and then the rookie & Foote take over the middle (as Farrior rides off into the sunset...)?

This, plus the year Harrison has left, plus the franchise tag, are the reasons that the Steelers hold all the cards in this negotiation. Having Harrison definately makes Woodley better. But will that be true after two more seasons (1 contract + 1 tag). If Davis comes along, we might not even need to move Timmons.

If what the agent says is true, I think this is looking more and more like the way it will pan out. As many have said, we need cap room to sign good young players. I don't necessarily mind letting Harrison walk after a year or two.

At the risk of sounding like DVS, it might also be worth seeing what someone would give up for him before the draft (if negotiations stall). Do you think that a reigning NFL DMVP would be worth a first to a team making a switch to a 3 - 4? I don't think I'd do this unless the deal was sweet, but we do have four very good LBs we can field if we didn't have Harrison. An extra day one pick could be used to get another LB, or to get some help on either line.


"We're not anywhere near Haynesworth numbers. We're nowhere near Ben's numbers. We're not asking for him to be the highest-paid Steelers player."

Anyone else think that this means they asking for him to be the highest paid player on D? It's an interesting question whether he's worth more than Troy.

Just read this reference your comment about Troy


On the one-year anniversary of Ben Roethlisberger's $102 million signing, the Tribune-Review is reporting that talks between the Steelers and James Harrison's agent are going nowhere. While Harrison still has a year remaining on his contract (Roethlisberger had two), the Steelers would like to finish a deal with their No. 1 off-season priority to see where they stand for the remainder of the spring and summer re-signing period. Of course, the Steelers are hesitant to pay Harrison (31 on May 4) much more than their current highest-paid defender, Troy Polamalu (28 on April 19), who averages $7.55 million per year.

I have to say I agree that he is not worth more. It is not a coincidence that his best season coincided with the emergence of Woodley. They are mutually beneficial for each other, but Woodley has much more upside.[/quote:30flii73]

While I understand the opinion of folks who feel that Harrison should not make more than Polamalu's average yearly salary of $7.55 million, the fact is that the market fluctuates and you must adjust. Bart Freaking Scott was just given a deal averaging $8 million per year. We won't go crazy getting into stupid Haynesworth-type numbers (even Harrison's agent acknowledged that that wasn't realistic) but Scott's deal should be the starting point for negotiations now (that wouldn't be the case if we finalized a deal before the start of the free agency period).

pfelix73
03-03-2009, 12:36 PM
I'm a Harrison fan too, just like the rest of you guys, but business is business. IF he and his agent are trying to hold out and get Haynesworth's kind of numbers, I'd move on. Harrison isn't that young to begin with. Around 30 isn't he?

Although last night it was reported that the Steelers want to 'reward' him with the right kind of bonus $, etc, I don't think he'll be rewarded like Haynesworth was....

feltdizz
03-03-2009, 12:40 PM
Troy's contract was the highest for a safety for a month then the Redskins drafted Landry from LSU and he became the highest paid safety.. as a rookie.

The market always goes up on players contracts.. I don't think Harrison deserves more then Haynesworth.. those numbers are crazy but JH's production is not a product of Woodley or Timmons' presence.. it's the other way around. You guys are lying to yourselves to try to make this contract negotiation feel better in your gut.

EVERYONE watched Harrison get close lined and held on damn near every play...
The young guys have talent but they are running free because of Harrison, not the other way around.

The guy is young 30 and I do not want him bitter or playing for peanuts...
I'll say it again, if Harrison is low balled or plays out his last year... what the hell does that say to Woodley and Timmons?

I think we get a deal done.. I will say I'm not a fan of Harrisons agent but hey... you gotta do what you gotta do... we all watched last year and know what Harrison means to this D.

Oviedo
03-03-2009, 12:46 PM
[quote=Chadman]Just wondering....if Harrison remains on his current contract, and the Steelers don't dump Foote...

and if they DO draft an ILB this draft...

Could Harrison be let to walk, Timmons to OLB, and then the rookie & Foote take over the middle (as Farrior rides off into the sunset...)?

This, plus the year Harrison has left, plus the franchise tag, are the reasons that the Steelers hold all the cards in this negotiation. Having Harrison definately makes Woodley better. But will that be true after two more seasons (1 contract + 1 tag). If Davis comes along, we might not even need to move Timmons.

If what the agent says is true, I think this is looking more and more like the way it will pan out. As many have said, we need cap room to sign good young players. I don't necessarily mind letting Harrison walk after a year or two.

At the risk of sounding like DVS, it might also be worth seeing what someone would give up for him before the draft (if negotiations stall). Do you think that a reigning NFL DMVP would be worth a first to a team making a switch to a 3 - 4? I don't think I'd do this unless the deal was sweet, but we do have four very good LBs we can field if we didn't have Harrison. An extra day one pick could be used to get another LB, or to get some help on either line.


"We're not anywhere near Haynesworth numbers. We're nowhere near Ben's numbers. We're not asking for him to be the highest-paid Steelers player."

Anyone else think that this means they asking for him to be the highest paid player on D? It's an interesting question whether he's worth more than Troy.

Just read this reference your comment about Troy


On the one-year anniversary of Ben Roethlisberger's $102 million signing, the Tribune-Review is reporting that talks between the Steelers and James Harrison's agent are going nowhere. While Harrison still has a year remaining on his contract (Roethlisberger had two), the Steelers would like to finish a deal with their No. 1 off-season priority to see where they stand for the remainder of the spring and summer re-signing period. Of course, the Steelers are hesitant to pay Harrison (31 on May 4) much more than their current highest-paid defender, Troy Polamalu (28 on April 19), who averages $7.55 million per year.

I have to say I agree that he is not worth more. It is not a coincidence that his best season coincided with the emergence of Woodley. They are mutually beneficial for each other, but Woodley has much more upside.

While I understand the opinion of folks who feel that Harrison should not make more than Polamalu's average yearly salary of $7.55 million, the fact is that the market fluctuates and you must adjust. Bart Freaking Scott was just given a deal averaging $8 million per year. We won't go crazy getting into stupid Haynesworth-type numbers (even Harrison's agent acknowledged that that wasn't realistic) but Scott's deal should be the starting point for negotiations now (that wouldn't be the case if we finalized a deal before the start of the free agency period).[/quote:2egsr1uy]

Other teams overpaying players is why they go through frequent boom/bust seasons. The Jets are just such a team. When was their last period of prolonged success. The Steelrrs have a business model that places them in the Top 3 teams in this decade in terms of toatls wins and success. They should not deviate from that model which focuses on:

1. Keeping your own to reasonable contracts but no one is worth breaking the banks for
2. Know when not to commit to long term contracts for players who will not be able to perform over the course of the contract
3. Build and restock through the draft not free agency. Only use outside free agent acquisition to fill short term gaps in most cases.

As I said it is equally incumbant on harrison and his agent to recognize how the Steelers do business and buy into the system. Do you really think that Harrsion is Defensive Player of Year on another team with another system? He earned that as much a part of the players around him as his own individual performance.

Simple choice. Sign a reasonable and fair Steelers contract that will set you and your family up for several generations (if you are wise) or be prepared to leave after next season and hope you don't get hurt. Also, keep in mind that the Steelers have already made you a multi-millionaire and you play for a quality organization with the greatest fans in the world. Bettis understood that. Faneca didn't and now he dwells in mediocrity.

ramblinjim
03-03-2009, 12:59 PM
[quote=Chadman]Just wondering....if Harrison remains on his current contract, and the Steelers don't dump Foote...

and if they DO draft an ILB this draft...

Could Harrison be let to walk, Timmons to OLB, and then the rookie & Foote take over the middle (as Farrior rides off into the sunset...)?

This, plus the year Harrison has left, plus the franchise tag, are the reasons that the Steelers hold all the cards in this negotiation. Having Harrison definately makes Woodley better. But will that be true after two more seasons (1 contract + 1 tag). If Davis comes along, we might not even need to move Timmons.

If what the agent says is true, I think this is looking more and more like the way it will pan out. As many have said, we need cap room to sign good young players. I don't necessarily mind letting Harrison walk after a year or two.

At the risk of sounding like DVS, it might also be worth seeing what someone would give up for him before the draft (if negotiations stall). Do you think that a reigning NFL DMVP would be worth a first to a team making a switch to a 3 - 4? I don't think I'd do this unless the deal was sweet, but we do have four very good LBs we can field if we didn't have Harrison. An extra day one pick could be used to get another LB, or to get some help on either line.


"We're not anywhere near Haynesworth numbers. We're nowhere near Ben's numbers. We're not asking for him to be the highest-paid Steelers player."

Anyone else think that this means they asking for him to be the highest paid player on D? It's an interesting question whether he's worth more than Troy.

Just read this reference your comment about Troy


On the one-year anniversary of Ben Roethlisberger's $102 million signing, the Tribune-Review is reporting that talks between the Steelers and James Harrison's agent are going nowhere. While Harrison still has a year remaining on his contract (Roethlisberger had two), the Steelers would like to finish a deal with their No. 1 off-season priority to see where they stand for the remainder of the spring and summer re-signing period. Of course, the Steelers are hesitant to pay Harrison (31 on May 4) much more than their current highest-paid defender, Troy Polamalu (28 on April 19), who averages $7.55 million per year.

I have to say I agree that he is not worth more. It is not a coincidence that his best season coincided with the emergence of Woodley. They are mutually beneficial for each other, but Woodley has much more upside.

While I understand the opinion of folks who feel that Harrison should not make more than Polamalu's average yearly salary of $7.55 million, the fact is that the market fluctuates and you must adjust. Bart Freaking Scott was just given a deal averaging $8 million per year. We won't go crazy getting into stupid Haynesworth-type numbers (even Harrison's agent acknowledged that that wasn't realistic) but Scott's deal should be the starting point for negotiations now (that wouldn't be the case if we finalized a deal before the start of the free agency period).

Other teams overpaying players is why they go through frequent boom/bust seasons. The Jets are just such a team. When was their last period of prolonged success. The Steelrrs have a business model that places them in the Top 3 teams in this decade in terms of toatls wins and success. They should not deviate from that model which focuses on:

1. Keeping your own to reasonable contracts but no one is worth breaking the banks for
2. Know when not to commit to long term contracts for players who will not be able to perform over the course of the contract
3. Build and restock through the draft not free agency. Only use outside free agent acquisition to fill short term gaps in most cases.

As I said it is equally incumbant on harrison and his agent to recognize how the Steelers do business and buy into the system. Do you really think that Harrsion is Defensive Player of Year on another team with another system? He earned that as much a part of the players around him as his own individual performance.

Simple choice. Sign a reasonable and fair Steelers contract that will set you and your family up for several generations (if you are wise) or be prepared to leave after next season and hope you don't get hurt. Also, keep in mind that the Steelers have already made you a multi-millionaire and you play for a quality organization with the greatest fans in the world. Bettis understood that. Faneca didn't and now he dwells in mediocrity.[/quote:31gwdmhx]


Ovie, I can't argue with anything here that you've said. I could see Harrison thinking "I didn't really get started till later so I need to go get the money at the top of my game." and would understand that (he does run the risk of having a bad year or getting hurt) But would you rather be a multi-millionaire and also be a big winner or be a multi-millionaire and play for crappy teams? I'm a guy that likes his money but would be inclined to go with the winning organization.

feltdizz
03-03-2009, 01:13 PM
I agree Oviedo but you cannot say Harrison is a product of our system. We said the same thing about JPeezy and he had a great year in Miami...

You could say the same thing about Larry Fitzgerald..
is he the best WR if he is in Tennessee?

Is A.Peterson a beast of a RB in Green Bay?

JH did what he was asked to do in our system and did it very well. Pay him a fair price.

feltdizz
03-03-2009, 01:17 PM
Ovie, I can't argue with anything here that you've said. I could see Harrison thinking "I didn't really get started till later so I need to go get the money at the top of my game." and would understand that (he does run the risk of having a bad year or getting hurt) But would you rather be a multi-millionaire and also be a big winner or be a multi-millionaire and play for crappy teams? I'm a guy that likes his money but would be inclined to go with the winning organization.

I think you look at JPeezy in Miami and ask that question... losing team before he was there and now they made the playoffs...

Joey Porter is still a Steeler at heart..
so is Franco Harris, ARE, Chris Hope, etc...

fans think players turn their backs when they leave Pittsburgh but these guys stay in contact...

sometimes we get it confused.. players like challenges as well.. and if they are paid well enough they will go and try to make another team into a winner...
it's their job.

BradshawsHairdresser
03-03-2009, 01:26 PM
Do you really think that Harrsion is Defensive Player of Year on another team with another system? He earned that as much a part of the players around him as his own individual performance.



I don't know if Harrison would be DPOY with another team, but I have no doubts he would be an outstanding LB with any team. To characterize him as just a "system" player misses the mark, IMO.

I'm pretty much in agreement with the rest of what you've said in this thread, though.

aggiebones
03-03-2009, 01:47 PM
Harrison has very little leverage. He is due to make almost nothing this season. He really can't play out this contract. Not to mention that the Steelers would franchise him next season. That's 2 more years where who knows what can happen to him. He's not young, young, just a good age. They know this is their big contract, but they lack some leverage. So they'll get a very good contract, but if they are thinking 100M, they are nuts, unless it is backfilled heavily. He won't be seeing guaranteed $41M in 13 months like Haynesworth.
You will see a big contract, but a fair one when done.
Redskins are being ripped off again, so ignore those numbers, they are idiots.

Oviedo
03-03-2009, 01:53 PM
Harrison has very little leverage. He is due to make almost nothing this season. He really can't play out this contract. Not to mention that the Steelers would franchise him next season. That's 2 more years where who knows what can happen to him. He's not young, young, just a good age. They know this is their big contract, but they lack some leverage. So they'll get a very good contract, but if they are thinking 100M, they are nuts, unless it is backfilled heavily. He won't be seeing guaranteed $41M in 13 months like Haynesworth.
You will see a big contract, but a fair one when done.
Redskins are being ripped off again, so ignore those numbers, they are idiots.

I'd say 4 years/$28-32M with half guaranteed would be more than fair.

Like you said he essentially has no leverage.

steelblood
03-03-2009, 01:55 PM
The Steelers are in the driver's seat here. He is signed for the 2009 season and we can easily franchise him for around 8 mil for the 2010 season. If we franchised him for the 2011 season, I believe the temporary rules would be that he'd get a 20 percent raise. So, essentially we'd have him this year for 1.4 mil, 2010 for 8 mil, and 2011 for 10 mil. This would even out to 21 mil over 3 years. He'd get paid and we'd get to keep him until he is 34 or so. By then (with the way he plays), who knows what sort of condition his body would be in. Also, if Woodley continues to improve and Harrison begins to drop off, we could choose Woodley over Harrison and a long term contract for James wouldn't keep us from signing 56. Flexibility is the key.

RuthlessBurgher
03-03-2009, 02:01 PM
I think you look at JPeezy in Miami and ask that question... losing team before he was there and now they made the playoffs...

Actually, Porter was on that 1-15 Dolphins team.

Lebsteel
03-03-2009, 02:02 PM
The Steelers are in the driver's seat here. He is signed for the 2009 season and we can easily franchise him for around 8 mil for the 2010 season. If we franchised him for the 2011 season, I believe the temporary rules would be that he'd get a 20 percent raise. So, essentially we'd have him this year for 1.4 mil, 2010 for 8 mil, and 2011 for 10 mil. This would even out to 21 mil over 3 years. He'd get paid and we'd get to keep him until he is 34 or so. By then (with the way he plays), who knows what sort of condition his body would be in. Also, if Woodley continues to improve and Harrison begins to drop off, we could choose Woodley over Harrison and a long term contract for James wouldn't keep us from signing 56. Flexibility is the key.

Yep, totally agree with your line of thinking. I don't think Harrison is going to get more than $7 mil./year, so he can either sign now and get some guaranteed $ or just play year to year and take his chances with injury.

feltdizz
03-03-2009, 03:04 PM
I think you look at JPeezy in Miami and ask that question... losing team before he was there and now they made the playoffs...

Actually, Porter was on that 1-15 Dolphins team.


I know.. I'm just saying he went to a team in limbo and they turned it around. I don't see why people are saying a player should only play for teams who are winners or contenders..

unless a player is going to Canada I can't fault any player for going to any of the 31 teams to play ball. People said Edge was a paper chaser for going to AZ when he did and he went to a SB last year...

any team can turn things around... and any player can have a career ending injury on any given play...

feltdizz
03-03-2009, 03:09 PM
Harrison has very little leverage. He is due to make almost nothing this season. He really can't play out this contract. Not to mention that the Steelers would franchise him next season. That's 2 more years where who knows what can happen to him. He's not young, young, just a good age. They know this is their big contract, but they lack some leverage. So they'll get a very good contract, but if they are thinking 100M, they are nuts, unless it is backfilled heavily. He won't be seeing guaranteed $41M in 13 months like Haynesworth.
You will see a big contract, but a fair one when done.
Redskins are being ripped off again, so ignore those numbers, they are idiots.

I'd say 4 years/$28-32M with half guaranteed would be more than fair.

Like you said he essentially has no leverage.

he is in a tough spot but the Steelers are pretty fair.. they aren't delusional like the Redskins but they will pay a player like Harrison a nice penny to play ball. Your numbers are pretty Steeler like but I would back load it so it would read 4 for $40 mill... 15 guaranteed.

I wonder what his agent wants?

SanAntonioSteelerFan
03-03-2009, 03:24 PM
Do you think the fact that the Steelers cut JH two or three times is important in these negotiations, even at a subliminal level?

feltdizz
03-03-2009, 03:30 PM
Do you think the fact that the Steelers cut JH two or three times is important in these negotiations, even at a subliminal level?

It is.. but it's important to both... Steelers kept giving him a shot and Harrison stuck with it and never gave up.

johnstownsteel
03-03-2009, 03:37 PM
Do you think the fact that the Steelers cut JH two or three times is important in these negotiations, even at a subliminal level?i don't think so but imo the steelers may be thinking, "we're paying you for future production not what you've done in the last two years." i know that seems harsh but really, it's the way business is done. so, where do the steelers feel this 31 year old linebacker will be in 2 to 3 years? will he be producing at the same level or will there be a steady decline in play a/o injury concerns.

other ideas they may be taking into consideration, how's bruce davis developing? or maybe they are thinking that harrsions spot will be filled by timmons. those questions certainly play into the mix.

feltdizz
03-03-2009, 05:25 PM
Do you think the fact that the Steelers cut JH two or three times is important in these negotiations, even at a subliminal level?i don't think so but imo the steelers may be thinking, "we're paying you for future production not what you've done in the last two years." i know that seems harsh but really, it's the way business is done. so, where do the steelers feel this 31 year old linebacker will be in 2 to 3 years? will he be producing at the same level or will there be a steady decline in play a/o injury concerns.

other ideas they may be taking into consideration, how's bruce davis developing? or maybe they are thinking that harrsions spot will be filled by timmons. those questions certainly play into the mix.

It's not like J Harrison is throwing his body around like Troy.. JH reminds me so much of Farrior... he plays so low to the ground and under control.

steelcityrules!!
03-03-2009, 10:31 PM
would love to see harrison get signed to a good deal, but he's not more valuable than Troy.
I hope he tells his agent to step back from the podium for a bit and get the deal done.

papillon
03-03-2009, 11:50 PM
I think Harrison's agent is leaking this information to try and drum up fan support to put pressure on the FO to sign Harrison for more than they need to. Steeler fans by and large are smarter than that and understand how the Steelers do business. It's a ploy that isn't going to get much traction in the Burgh. Just look at this MB and you see what fans think, "don't break the bank", "franchise him for two years if we have to", "the Steelers hold all the cards", "I love JH, but, I don't want the Steelers to overpay for him", etc., etc.,...

Harrison will get a raise, it will be cap friendly and he'll retire a Steeler (probably) as long as his agent and him are reasonable men of logic and intelligence.

Pappy

cxr344
03-04-2009, 09:15 PM
It's way too early to be worried about them letting Harrison walk. This feels a lot more like the Hines Ward situation than the Faneca situation to me. I think Harrison will be a solid player well into his mid-thirties, and I'm pretty confident the Steelers feel the same way.

The Steelers have no reason to rush this one, no matter how much the agent whines to the media. It might get ugly, but they'll do the right thing and sign him to a fair if not generous deal.

NorthCoast
03-05-2009, 10:21 PM
I am in the camp that Harrison became what he was because of Woodley. If Harrison jumps and joins a lesser team, he would revert to his pre-Woodley stats (which were not that bad either).
When will agents learn that, of all sports, football is the ultimate team sport. I think Harrison gets it:

Harrison credited defensive coordinator Dick LeBeau's schemes with allowing him, an undrafted free agent from Kent State who was cut several times by Pittsburgh and once by Baltimore, to eventually become a star. "The defense is built to play with 11 guys, and if all 11 guys are on the same page, playing the same defense on the same play, there's nothing that can go wrong and that's just how we feel about it," Harrison said.

He just needs to remind his agent. The Steelers have a chance to be fair with JH but they don't need to make him the highest paid defensive player.

RuthlessBurgher
03-05-2009, 10:24 PM
I am in the camp that Harrison became what he was because of Woodley. If Harrison jumps and joins a lesser team, he would revert to his pre-Woodley stats (which were not that bad either).
When will agents learn that, of all sports, football is the ultimate team sport. I think Harrison gets it:

Harrison credited defensive coordinator bad word LeBeau's schemes with allowing him, an undrafted free agent from Kent State who was cut several times by Pittsburgh and once by Baltimore, to eventually become a star. "The defense is built to play with 11 guys, and if all 11 guys are on the same page, playing the same defense on the same play, there's nothing that can go wrong and that's just how we feel about it," Harrison said.

He just needs to remind his agent. The Steelers have a chance to be fair with JH but they don't need to make him the highest paid defensive player.

His teammates named Harrison team MVP in '07 as well, when Haggan was playing OLB opposite him.

MBposter
03-06-2009, 12:20 AM
I think Harrison's agent is leaking this information to try and drum up fan support to put pressure on the FO to sign Harrison for more than they need to.
Pappy

My feeling is that won't work. Between Harrison's "domestic Violence" issues as
well as that thug like act in the Superbowl, he will never be the most liked
Steeler despite being a great player. Lets call it like it is.

papillon
03-06-2009, 01:14 AM
I think Harrison's agent is leaking this information to try and drum up fan support to put pressure on the FO to sign Harrison for more than they need to.
Pappy

My feeling is that won't work. Between Harrison's "domestic Violence" issues as
well as that thug like act in the Superbowl, he will never be the most liked
Steeler despite being a great player. Lets call it like it is.

Just remember there is no competition for JH right now. The Steelers are only trying to extend his contract and pay the man before he can hot the FA market next year. The only reason they would leak any contract negotiations is to make it seem like the Steelers are being unfair and drum up fan support or outrage.

If the deal doesn't get done, then he plays for peanuts again or holds out and if he holds out the fans will turn on him in a heartbeat.

It's his best interests to have hs agent shut up and get a nice deal together for him to sign.

Pappy

Oviedo
03-06-2009, 08:41 AM
I think Harrison's agent is leaking this information to try and drum up fan support to put pressure on the FO to sign Harrison for more than they need to.
Pappy

My feeling is that won't work. Between Harrison's "domestic Violence" issues as
well as that thug like act in the Superbowl, he will never be the most liked
Steeler despite being a great player. Lets call it like it is.

Just remember there is no competition for JH right now. The Steelers are only trying to extend his contract and pay the man before he can hot the FA market next year. The only reason they would leak any contract negotiations is to make it seem like the Steelers are being unfair and drum up fan support or outrage.

If the deal doesn't get done, then he plays for peanuts again or holds out and if he holds out the fans will turn on him in a heartbeat.

It's his best interests to have hs agent shut up and get a nice deal together for him to sign.

Pappy

Harrison will never be a free agent next year. He will be tagged which is why he and his agent just need to take the multi-millions they are being offered. With JH's physical style of play if he hasn't signed an extension before the season starts he is an idiot and should fire his agent. He is one injury away from irrelavance and as an over 30 player in the NFL that is not a good place to be.

steeler_fan_in_t.o.
03-06-2009, 09:47 AM
Steeler fans by and large are smarter than that and understand how the Steelers do business. It's a ploy that isn't going to get much traction in the Burgh. Just look at this MB and you see what fans think, "don't break the bank", "franchise him for two years if we have to", "the Steelers hold all the cards", "I love JH, but, I don't want the Steelers to overpay for him", etc., etc.,...

Not me. I wanted them to sign Haynesworth for $101M :lol: :lol: :lol:

feltdizz
03-06-2009, 01:34 PM
I think Harrison's agent is leaking this information to try and drum up fan support to put pressure on the FO to sign Harrison for more than they need to.
Pappy

My feeling is that won't work. Between Harrison's "domestic Violence" issues as
well as that thug like act in the Superbowl, he will never be the most liked
Steeler despite being a great player. Lets call it like it is.

while I agree on the domestic issue...

you are crazy if you think fans remember anything besides his 100 yard rumble in the SB..

and we loved Jack Lambert because he was a mean, dirty SOB on the field.

feltdizz
03-06-2009, 01:37 PM
I think Harrison's agent is leaking this information to try and drum up fan support to put pressure on the FO to sign Harrison for more than they need to.
Pappy

My feeling is that won't work. Between Harrison's "domestic Violence" issues as
well as that thug like act in the Superbowl, he will never be the most liked
Steeler despite being a great player. Lets call it like it is.

Just remember there is no competition for JH right now. The Steelers are only trying to extend his contract and pay the man before he can hot the FA market next year. The only reason they would leak any contract negotiations is to make it seem like the Steelers are being unfair and drum up fan support or outrage.

If the deal doesn't get done, then he plays for peanuts again or holds out and if he holds out the fans will turn on him in a heartbeat.

It's his best interests to have hs agent shut up and get a nice deal together for him to sign.

Pappy

did we turn on Ward? Not really....
We won't turn on Harrison... a few will, but they are the GM/FO minded fans.

The average fan, unless his replacement is a complete stud... , know what Harrison means to our D and wants to see him on the field for a few more years. I doubt we turn on him unless he slaps a woman again.. god forbid.

blacknblue80s
03-06-2009, 02:48 PM
This is Max's fault. He is going to take the franchise money with his me first attitude while other players take less to remain with this team, restructure their contracts etc.