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View Full Version : Did the Chiefs have to make this trade with NE?



HardlinerKC
02-28-2009, 10:07 PM
Now that the dust has settled a bit. Now that buyer's remorse, if present, has had a chance to settle in, was this blockbuster Cassel to KC deal a needed and good deal?

Here's the deal: The Patties don't give up anything without knowing they're going to benefit more in return. That's their history, all friendly rhetoric and statements aside, I'm still a little dubious. Here's another view that caught my eye that's worthy of my Steel friends attention:

The Chiefs had to make the Cassel trade

February 28, 2009 2:58 PM

Posted by ESPN.com's Bill Williamson

When word first broke that the Kansas City Chiefs had acquired quarterback Matt Cassel from the New England Patriots, I assumed it would involve the No. 3 overall pick.

So, I was wrapping myself around that concept trying to decide if it was a good deal or not. I could understand the Chiefs giving up the choice for their new franchise quarterback but I still couldn't decide whether it was a good deal or not.
Matt Cassel
Quarterback
Kansas City Chiefs

2008 STATS
YDS CMP% TD INT RAT
3,693 63.4 21 11 89.4

Then I got the press release from the Chiefs explaining the deal: The Chiefs got Cassel and linebacker Mike Vrabel from the Patriots for their second-round pick, which is the No. 34 overall pick in the April draft.

I needed no more time to come to a conclusion: This was an outstanding deal for the Chiefs.

There really is no risk here. Look, we don't know if Cassel is going to be a superstar player. Yes, he looked good in his time as Tom Brady's replacement in New England. But he had a terrific supporting cast and superb coaching.

It is unclear if Cassel, who reunites with general manager Scott Pioli in Kansas City, can have the same impact on a much weaker Kansas City team. But he will at least be serviceable and capable of having a big game here and there. And don't discount the possibility of Cassel being outstanding in Kansas City.

The Chiefs have a decent offense and new head coach Todd Haley is known for his success in the passing game. Cassel does have a chance to be just as good he was in New England.

This was a deal Kansas City had to do considering what it gave up. Now, the Chiefs know they have their quarterback question answered and they still have the No. 3 overall pick to upgrade their defense. Right now, a good guess is that Kansas City will take Wake Forest linebacker Aaron Curry with the No. 3 pick.

To think the Chiefs can go to training camp with both Cassel and Curry has to be very enticing to the team. It appeared highly unlikely that would be the case.

Because of an expected high price tag on Cassel it was long my stance that the Chiefs should wait on getting a quarterback and stick with Tyler Thigpen for another year. I also thought the Chiefs should stay away from drafting a quarterback in the first round. I figured Thigpen could try to prove himself while the Chiefs, in dire need of help on the defensive side of the ball, draft a defensive player at No. 3.

In one trade, the Chiefs just improved in four areas. They got better at quarterback, backup quarterback, linebacker (in the form of Vrabel) and whomever they'll use the No. 3 pick on.

There's no denying it. The Chiefs had to make this trade.

bostonsteeler
02-28-2009, 10:11 PM
I have a feeling Belichik has something up his sleeve.
Perhaps he knows Cassel is a huge system QB who will stink once outside the system.
If so, he got himself a freebie 34.

Discipline of Steel
02-28-2009, 10:30 PM
Assessing it from a simple perspective, getting two good players for a (high) second round pick is a good move.

Cant worry about the fact that NE got the pick for 2 players that are not in their future plans.

RuthlessBurgher
02-28-2009, 10:33 PM
I have a feeling Belichik has something up his sleeve.
Perhaps he knows Cassel is a huge system QB who will stink once outside the system.
If so, he got himself a freebie 34.

Perhaps Bellichick orchestrated the bogus 3 way deal between Denver and Tampa Bay to get Cutler ticked off at McDaniels and to demand a trade. McDaniels, wanting to work with a QB he had a history with in Cassel, is upset with the situation as well. Well, since that didn't happen, why not trade Tom Brady to the Broncos for Jay Cutler and some draft picks? McDaniels is even happier with Brady than he would have been with Cassel, so he will happily give up a premium pick or two in addition to the spurned Cutler to bring in a 3 time Super Bowl Champion and a future Hall of Famer. Belichick, meanwhile, gets a 25 year old QB with a rocket arm in exchange for a 31 year old QB who was never all that athletic to begin with, and now has a bum leg that required multiple surgeries because of the torn ligaments and subsequent infections. Plus, Brady may not be as motivated by football as he once was after rumors of his marriage to the Brazilian supermodel this past week. This is total rampant speculation on my part, but if this comes true, I claim the Nostradamus award for the next 4 years.

papillon
02-28-2009, 11:24 PM
Two experienced players for one inexperienced draft pick? Winner, winner chicken dinner. I like two for one almost all of the time; when you get a proven (Vrabel) player and a young potentially very good quarterback for one draft pick (even 1.3, but, in this case 2.34) you have done well.

The franchise tag for Cassel was two firsts if you just make a play for him, so, you pick him up for a second and his 14 million dollar salary. The Chiefs win the initial battle, now if Cassel and Vrable perform they win the war.

I like this deal a lot.

Pappy

Discipline of Steel
02-28-2009, 11:41 PM
I have a feeling Belichik has something up his sleeve.
Perhaps he knows Cassel is a huge system QB who will stink once outside the system.
If so, he got himself a freebie 34.

Perhaps Bellichick orchestrated the bogus 3 way deal between Denver and Tampa Bay to get Cutler ticked off at McDaniels and to demand a trade. McDaniels, wanting to work with a QB he had a history with in Cassel, is upset with the situation as well. Well, since that didn't happen, why not trade Tom Brady to the Broncos for Jay Cutler and some draft picks? McDaniels is even happier with Brady than he would have been with Cassel, so he will happily give up a premium pick or two in addition to the spurned Cutler to bring in a 3 time Super Bowl Champion and a future Hall of Famer. Belichick, meanwhile, gets a 25 year old QB with a rocket arm in exchange for a 31 year old QB who was never all that athletic to begin with, and now has a bum leg that required multiple surgeries because of the torn ligaments and subsequent infections. Plus, Brady may not be as motivated by football as he once was after rumors of his marriage to the Brazilian supermodel this past week. This is total rampant speculation on my part, but if this comes true, I claim the Nostradamus award for the next 4 years.

That is definately a good one Ruthless, a mastermind switcheroo with an eye to the future.

ANPSTEEL
02-28-2009, 11:50 PM
Two experienced players for one inexperienced draft pick? Winner, winner chicken dinner. I like two for one almost all of the time; when you get a proven (Vrabel) player and a young potentially very good quarterback for one draft pick (even 1.3, but, in this case 2.34) you have done well.

The franchise tag for Cassel was two firsts if you just make a play for him, so, you pick him up for a second and his 14 million dollar salary. The Chiefs win the initial battle, now if Cassel and Vrable perform they win the war.

I like this deal a lot.

Pappy

You are absolutely correct pap
But I'm gong to take it one step further

If you are looking for a qb in a weak draft dr that position
And can get a young guy that is better than the top two draft prospects, you jump all over the opportunity.

Then you tell me that, not only do you get the QB, but you also get a veteran leader for your defense

AND

At 2.34, you get all of this with a lower pick than two teams are likely to use on stafford and sanchez?!?!??

Holy cow batman
Serious winner winner chicken dinner

I think the pats gave pioli a sweetheart deal, if ever there was one

steeler_fan_in_t.o.
03-01-2009, 01:31 AM
Personally, I don't love this for KC. First off.....Vrabel. Is he a good player? Sure. Will he still be in the game by the next time the Chiefs make the playoffs? I think not. Therefore, he is pretty unnecessary.

As for Cassel, I agree with those who think that he flops outside of NE. I smell Scott Mitchell on this one, and that isn't a pleasant odor.

Wolfhound45
03-01-2009, 01:35 AM
Not trying to be rude to our KC fan, but isn't there a Chiefs board somewhere to discuss this? I realize this deal has AFC implications and that we universally hate the Pats*, but enough already. This is a Steelers board.

feltdizz
03-01-2009, 04:06 PM
Cassel in KC is terrible.. Billicheat is a genius though.. he padded this guys stats against some scrubs and all of a sudden he is a decent QB? No way...

and Vrabel? GTFOH.. without Wilfork eating up the middle.. Vrabel is a scrub. Sure he was always in position on our 3rd and 4th and 1's but he had the answers to the test.

really bad move IMO.

Discipline of Steel
03-01-2009, 05:57 PM
Cassel in KC is terrible.. Billicheat is a genius though.. he padded this guys stats against some scrubs and all of a sudden he is a decent QB? No way...

and Vrabel? GTFOH.. without Wilfork eating up the middle.. Vrabel is a scrub. Sure he was always in position on our 3rd and 4th and 1's but he had the answers to the test.

really bad move IMO.

Vrabel has had a long successful career but true he may be in the final few years of his career and not as spry as he once was. But KC has a very young team and Mike can team them how to act like professionals, teach them what it takes to win. Even if he plays average or less, he will have intangible value to their organization. With Cassell, he may never be more than average or he could turn out to be very good. Its a roll of the dice.

Hardliner, I dont mind discussing your team in this forum. Jom throws up some Cinncinnati stuff sometimes. When individuals are not interested in this thread then they can post their comments on others i suppose. If the moderators rule otherwise, then so be it.

ANPSTEEL
03-01-2009, 09:18 PM
DOS-

you hit on my point...

the chiefs likely needed a qb anyway. they could have used their pick at 1.3 or the one they traded at 2.35-

in both cases they would have been picking a completely untested and unproven qb- and quite possibly been no better off than they currently are.

with this trade- they get a qb that at minimum has shown he can be successful in the right system- in addition, they picked up a quality veteran leader, who still has a bit left in the tank, to help shape and coach their young d.

what is not to like about that???

Discipline of Steel
03-01-2009, 09:33 PM
DOS-

you hit on my point...

the chiefs likely needed a qb anyway. they could have used their pick at 1.3 or the one they traded at 2.35-

in both cases they would have been picking a completely untested and unproven qb- and quite possibly been no better off than they currently are.

with this trade- they get a qb that at minimum has shown he can be successful in the right system- in addition, they picked up a quality veteran leader, who still has a bit left in the tank, to help shape and coach their young d.

what is not to like about that???

Yes sir!

Iron Shiek
03-02-2009, 01:02 PM
A caller on Sirius just mentioned something interesting.

Belicheat has 2 1sts and 2 2nds in the draft and a ton of cap space now that Cassel isn't eating it all up. Well, unfortunately that means he could swing a helluva deal for Julius Peppers. A 1st and 2nd and big contract is do-able. I wouldn't really want to see him on that defense.

But I heard that Peppers is still open to returning to Carolina now. Interesting.


But Ruthless, for keeper fantasy league purpose, please let Cutler go to the Cheats so he can bomb it to Moss all day. Ha. Wow he would be money in Belicheat's offense with those weapons.

feltdizz
03-02-2009, 02:14 PM
anyone read where Billicheat passed up a possible 3 way trade with Cutler to Tampa and how it could have gotten the Pats* a 1.12 pick in the draft? Said he passed up the 1.12 for 2 second rounders because he knows KC won't compete and didn't want to send Cassel to the Bronco's.

RuthlessBurgher
03-03-2009, 01:47 AM
anyone read where Billicheat passed up a possible 3 way trade with Cutler to Tampa and how it could have gotten the Pats* a 1.12 pick in the draft? Said he passed up the 1.12 for 2 second rounders because he knows KC won't compete and didn't want to send Cassel to the Bronco's.

Except that he only got one second rounder from K.C., not two. Seems to me that the failed Denver-Tampa-New England trade screwed over all 3 teams. New England because they got a much worse compensation package from the Chiefs. Denver because now Cutler is royally ticked off that they considered trading him. And Tampa because they still have Luke McCown atop their QB depth chart at the moment instead of Jay Cutler.

MeetJoeGreene
03-03-2009, 12:46 PM
anyone read where Billicheat passed up a possible 3 way trade with Cutler to Tampa and how it could have gotten the Pats* a 1.12 pick in the draft? Said he passed up the 1.12 for 2 second rounders because he knows KC won't compete and didn't want to send Cassel to the Bronco's.

Either that or Paoli has dirt on NE video habits and basically blackmailed them

RuthlessBurgher
03-03-2009, 01:09 PM
The one thing that I wonder about Cassel in K.C. is that his new coach is Todd Haley. Todd Haley was the O.C. in Arizona, where he had a young QB that they drafted early in the first round that was supposed to be their franchise guy. However, Haley did not develop Leinart into a starter. Now he has the guy that couldn't beat out Leinart to start at USC. Hmmm....

feltdizz
03-03-2009, 03:32 PM
anyone read where Billicheat passed up a possible 3 way trade with Cutler to Tampa and how it could have gotten the Pats* a 1.12 pick in the draft? Said he passed up the 1.12 for 2 second rounders because he knows KC won't compete and didn't want to send Cassel to the Bronco's.

Except that he only got one second rounder from K.C., not two. Seems to me that the failed Denver-Tampa-New England trade screwed over all 3 teams. New England because they got a much worse compensation package from the Chiefs. Denver because now Cutler is royally ticked off that they considered trading him. And Tampa because they still have Luke McCown atop their QB depth chart at the moment instead of Jay Cutler.

which makes it smell even more...

feltdizz
03-03-2009, 03:35 PM
The one thing that I wonder about Cassel in K.C. is that his new coach is Todd Haley. Todd Haley was the O.C. in Arizona, where he had a young QB that they drafted early in the first round that was supposed to be their franchise guy. However, Haley did not develop Leinart into a starter. Now he has the guy that couldn't beat out Leinart to start at USC. Hmmm....

Pats* have a way of making old pro's look young.. and making QB's look great.

Cassel hasn't shown me jack when he gets pressured or has to move in the pocket. He looked so bad against us last year... all his hype was built on padding stats against bad teams... the AFC East was not a tough division this year.