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fordfixer
02-26-2009, 12:22 AM
Harrison's agent: Talks with Steelers 'not close'

http://abclocal.go.com/wtvg/story?secti ... id=3934229 (http://abclocal.go.com/wtvg/story?section=news/sports/pro/football&sa=NFL&eid=3934229)

02/25 4:45 PM
For the Pittsburgh Steelers and Pro Bowl linebacker James Harrison, this is one of those times, as the sides remain far apart in negotiations, Harrison's agent, Bill Parise, told ESPN.com Wednesday.
When you pit the reigning Super Bowl champions against the league's defensive MVP in contract negotiations, there are bound to be rough patches.

For the Pittsburgh Steelers and Pro Bowl linebacker James Harrison, this is one of those times, as the sides remain far apart in negotiations, Harrison's agent, Bill Parise, told

"We're talking and meeting pretty regularly, almost daily, but we're having a difficult time getting to where we need to be," Parise said. "I would say talks are progressing but not necessarily yielding the results that we would expect."

Barring something unforeseen, the Steelers are not expected to have a deal in place with Harrison before the start of free agency on Friday.

Length is not the primary issue. Both sides have discussed a deal in the range of five to six years. But the two sides are far apart monetarily and how it would be distributed over the length of the contract. The uncertainty with the collective bargaining agreement, with talks possibly starting this spring, also is something both sides have to work through.

Harrison, 30, is not due to become a free agent until 2010.

"I think the Steelers are trying to get a deal done, too," Parise said. "It's just right now we're not close."

Harrison, a two-time Pro Bowler, registered 101 tackles, 16 sacks and seven forced fumbles for Pittsburgh last season. He also had the longest interception return in Super Bowl history of 100 yards in the win over the Arizona Cardinals in Super Bowl XLIII.

James Walker covers the AFC North for ESPN.com.

Chadman
02-26-2009, 12:34 AM
Ok, to be honest, as good as Harrison is, he's 30 years old. You simply don't want to put too many eggs in that basket, even if he only has a little tread on the tyres.

Chadman is 34. He has even less tread on his tyres, and there is no way he can do the things he did as a 24 year old.

Harrison isn't going to get much better. There is only downhill to go.

Hopefully, the Steelers & Harrison can come to a reasonable agreement. Yes, he deserves a big payrise.

But he isn't irreplaceable if those talks don't work out the way the Steelers hope they will.

SteelerOfDeVille
02-26-2009, 12:45 AM
Ok, to be honest, as good as Harrison is, he's 30 years old. You simply don't want to put too many eggs in that basket, even if he only has a little tread on the tyres.

Chadman is 34. He has even less tread on his tyres, and there is no way he can do the things he did as a 24 year old.

Harrison isn't going to get much better. There is only downhill to go.

Hopefully, the Steelers & Harrison can come to a reasonable agreement. Yes, he deserves a big payrise.

But he isn't irreplaceable if those talks don't work out the way the Steelers hope they will.
:Clap
chadman's en fuego... if he's not signed by the draft, look for an OLB to be taken at some point in the draft... it's already a possiblity at ILB, anyway.... between his demands and Farrior's age, LB may become a priority position...

schillah
02-26-2009, 01:11 AM
honestly...I dont care about harrison's age at this point. Him and Woodley must not be separated. Harrison's toughness and awareness to knock the ball out of a qb's hand completes this defense

papillon
02-26-2009, 01:19 AM
If the choices are sign and extend Harrison this year and potentially lose Woodley and Timmons due to Harrison's contract and the salary cap, I'd let Harrison play out his contract next year and work on extending Woodley and Timmons. We'd get Harrison cheap for one more year with Woodley and then Timmons would take over. Harrison would be another year older and worth less in FA.

This is his time to get paid and the Steelers appear to want to pay him. He should understand how the Steelers do business though and he's going to have to give a little if he wants that money this year.

If the Steelers play hard ball and don't give in, Harrison is taking a risk of injury, less production and age to take a toll on him next year. The Steelers have the stronger hand in this poker game, I hope they use it.

Pappy

pittpete
02-26-2009, 01:37 AM
Could we franchise him in 2010?
This way we can keep him for at least 2 years, just enough time to groom his possible replacement.
Can Bruce Davis start for us if he had to?

Discipline of Steel
02-26-2009, 01:52 AM
Blasphemers! James Harrison is legend. We cant talk about him this way...Bruce Davis?

Chadman
02-26-2009, 01:56 AM
Blasphemers! James Harrison is legend. We cant talk about him this way...Bruce Davis?

You mean like Rod Woodson, Alan Faneca & Greg Lloyd before him?

They were far more accomplished, and far better players, that couldn't get the big payout at the end.

The Steelers are smart. They won't overspend on a guy simply because the fans like him. They'll do what is best for the collective 'team'.

And yes, franchising him next season could be a good option.

Oviedo
02-26-2009, 09:04 AM
Ok, to be honest, as good as Harrison is, he's 30 years old. You simply don't want to put too many eggs in that basket, even if he only has a little tread on the tyres.

Chadman is 34. He has even less tread on his tyres, and there is no way he can do the things he did as a 24 year old.

Harrison isn't going to get much better. There is only downhill to go.

Hopefully, the Steelers & Harrison can come to a reasonable agreement. Yes, he deserves a big payrise.

But he isn't irreplaceable if those talks don't work out the way the Steelers hope they will.
:Clap
chadman's en fuego... if he's not signed by the draft, look for an OLB to be taken at some point in the draft... it's already a possiblity at ILB, anyway.... between his demands and Farrior's age, LB may become a priority position...

I totally agree that harrison can't hold the Steelers hostage over trying to get backpay. I really hope that the FO does nothing with Harrison that would risk their ability to resign Woodley or Timmons both of whom I think will be Pro Bowl players.

The way Harrison plays he could become an injury problem at any time and you definitely don't want to lock into him for 5 years. If he doesn't sign let him play out his contract in 2009 and then franchise him in 2010. He will be almost 34 years old and his market value will be low.

Northern_Blitz
02-26-2009, 10:16 AM
Could we franchise him in 2010?
This way we can keep him for at least 2 years, just enough time to groom his possible replacement.
Can Bruce Davis start for us if he had to?


Blasphemers! James Harrison is legend. We cant talk about him this way...Bruce Davis?

If we couldn't get a deal done with Harrison, I don't think it'd be Davis starting. Timmons can play ILB and OLB.

Next year would be:

Harrison / Farrior / Timmons / Woodley (w/Foote as backup ILB and Timmons as backup OLB. We only need Davis if 2 LBs go down.)

Then if we can't get Harrison done, we extend Foote and the LBs become

Timmons / Farrior / Foote / Woodley (If Davis is good, we can move Timmons back to ILB and let Foote go. If Davis isn't good, we will draft someone else.)

As good? No. Still really good, yes! Plus, Harrison goes away for a monster contract and we get a reasonably high comp pick.

I think that a 5 - 6 year contract for Harrison is a long time. Seems to me that one of the ways we deal with the cap is by signing people to reasonable length terms. Then we let them play out their contracts instead of cutting them for cap reasons. Since they leave as UFAs (not cuts) we get comps. Then we have a better chance of getting good young players that are cheap.

We have alot of good young talent that I think we should try to retain (i.e. Timmons, Woodley, Heath, Holmes). I like Harrison, but I don't think we should tie up a ton of cash in a guy on the wrong side of 30, who plays the most physical position on the defence (and special teams).

Bottom line is that I trust the organization, but I hope they don't break the bank for Harrison, even though I like his game alot.

Mister Pittsburgh
02-26-2009, 10:27 AM
Trade Harrison for a first round pick....... :twisted:

steeler_fan_in_t.o.
02-26-2009, 11:20 AM
I think that the article here doesn't paint an accurate picture of the situation. From another article posted recently, the biggest issue is figuring out how to structure the contract as rules could change if there is an uncapped year next year. There are rules concerning salary escalation etc. that must be addressed. The process is early and this can get done.

flippy
02-26-2009, 12:30 PM
Harrison would struggle elsewhere.

He's a system player - as good as he is in our system.

He's not a fast learner either.

He's struggled to learn our system. He's even admitted he's still got to learn the whole defense.

It'd take him 2 years to contribute somewhere else at least.

And he's not getting younger.

And he's not gonna win another team over with his personality.

He'll sign for what we offer.

Or Timmons can take his slot and break his sack record.

RuthlessBurgher
02-26-2009, 01:07 PM
Harrison would struggle elsewhere.

He's a system player - as good as he is in our system.

He's not a fast learner either.

He's struggled to learn our system. He's even admitted he's still got to learn the whole defense.

It'd take him 2 years to contribute somewhere else at least.

And he's not getting younger.

And he's not gonna win another team over with his personality.

He'll sign for what we offer.

Or Timmons can take his slot and break his sack record.

Considering that Harrison was a demi-god here a few short weeks ago, it is surprising to see someone suddenly minimizing his accomplishments and assuming that Timmons (a part time ILB so far in his pro career) is going to go ahead and just break the sack record that stood since the mid 80's (Greg Lloyd, Kevin Greene, Jason Gildon, Joey Porter, etc. could not touch Meriweather's 15 sack season it in their careers here). Yikes.

papillon
02-26-2009, 01:16 PM
Harrison would struggle elsewhere.

He's a system player - as good as he is in our system.

He's not a fast learner either.

He's struggled to learn our system. He's even admitted he's still got to learn the whole defense.

It'd take him 2 years to contribute somewhere else at least.

And he's not getting younger.

And he's not gonna win another team over with his personality.

He'll sign for what we offer.

Or Timmons can take his slot and break his sack record.

Considering that Harrison was a demi-god here a few short weeks ago, it is surprising to see someone suddenly minimizing his accomplishments and assuming that Timmons (a part time ILB so far in his pro career) is going to go ahead and just break the sack record that stood since the mid 80's (Greg Lloyd, Kevin Greene, Jason Gildon, Joey Porter, etc. could not touch Meriweather's 15 sack season it in their careers here). Yikes.

No one, includeing me, believed that signing Harrison would become an issue this off season, it seemed to be fata compli. Now, based on the articles I've read, the deal isn't as definite as it once was. As has been mentioned, we all love JH's passion and style of play and would love for him to be a Steeler until he retires, the reality is that his contract could prohibit younger players that are developing nicely to not be extended.

Lets say JH can't get signed, Woodley was only 3.5 sacks behind him and Timmons could probably turn in Woodley like numbers playing full time. The Steelers really are in a good position.

If JH is asking too much, I'd let him play this year for the peanuts of his current contract and franchise him next year. The Steelers would have him until he's 34, how much could he have left at that point? He can walk and let someone else overpay him and we now have Woodley and Timmons two year more experienced and signed long term (hopefully).

Pappy

RuthlessBurgher
02-26-2009, 01:30 PM
Harrison would struggle elsewhere.

He's a system player - as good as he is in our system.

He's not a fast learner either.

He's struggled to learn our system. He's even admitted he's still got to learn the whole defense.

It'd take him 2 years to contribute somewhere else at least.

And he's not getting younger.

And he's not gonna win another team over with his personality.

He'll sign for what we offer.

Or Timmons can take his slot and break his sack record.

Considering that Harrison was a demi-god here a few short weeks ago, it is surprising to see someone suddenly minimizing his accomplishments and assuming that Timmons (a part time ILB so far in his pro career) is going to go ahead and just break the sack record that stood since the mid 80's (Greg Lloyd, Kevin Greene, Jason Gildon, Joey Porter, etc. could not touch Meriweather's 15 sack season it in their careers here). Yikes.

No one, includeing me, believed that signing Harrison would become an issue this off season, it seemed to be fata compli. Now, based on the articles I've read, the deal isn't as definite as it once was. As has been mentioned, we all love JH's passion and style of play and would love for him to be a Steeler until he retires, the reality is that his contract could prohibit younger players that are developing nicely to not be extended.

Lets say JH can't get signed, Woodley was only 3.5 sacks behind him and Timmons could probably turn in Woodley like numbers playing full time. The Steelers really are in a good position.

If JH is asking too much, I'd let him play this year for the peanuts of his current contract and franchise him next year. The Steelers would have him until he's 34, how much could he have left at that point? He can walk and let someone else overpay him and we now have Woodley and Timmons two year more experienced and signed long term (hopefully).

Pappy

That would be a shrewd business decision for sure, but it would be somewhat of a d!ck move by the Steelers, and this team does not operate that way. History has shown that we will pay full market value for our elite players in their prime (in spite of a reputation for being frugal, the reality is that we take care of our own handsomely...and especially the foundation guys), and Harrison is that right now. We will not overpay for guys that are over the hill, but with only 2 seasons of starting experience under his belt, Harrison is not there yet, in spite of what his numerical age might be. For a guy that was voted team MVP by his teammate 2 years in a row, was named NFL defensive player of the year this past season, has seemingly countless memorable "splash" plays in his personal highlight reel (including perhaps the greatest individual play in Super Bowl history), you don't screw this guy over by paying him another year of the peanut-salary he signed when he was Porter's backup, then only one year's worth of a salary commensurate with the top LB's in the league via the franchise tag. That would make the team look bad in the eyes of all the other players who realize that Harrison is one guy that truly deserves to get paid. The Steelers are a well-respected organization by pretty much everyone, but would Woodley and Timmons be so quick to re-sign here if they saw that we screwed over a beast like Harrison? This deal will get done. He has earned a payday and deserves whatever he gets.

Oviedo
02-26-2009, 01:43 PM
Harrison would struggle elsewhere.

He's a system player - as good as he is in our system.

He's not a fast learner either.

He's struggled to learn our system. He's even admitted he's still got to learn the whole defense.

It'd take him 2 years to contribute somewhere else at least.

And he's not getting younger.

And he's not gonna win another team over with his personality.

He'll sign for what we offer.

Or Timmons can take his slot and break his sack record.

Considering that Harrison was a demi-god here a few short weeks ago, it is surprising to see someone suddenly minimizing his accomplishments and assuming that Timmons (a part time ILB so far in his pro career) is going to go ahead and just break the sack record that stood since the mid 80's (Greg Lloyd, Kevin Greene, Jason Gildon, Joey Porter, etc. could not touch Meriweather's 15 sack season it in their careers here). Yikes.

No one, includeing me, believed that signing Harrison would become an issue this off season, it seemed to be fata compli. Now, based on the articles I've read, the deal isn't as definite as it once was. As has been mentioned, we all love JH's passion and style of play and would love for him to be a Steeler until he retires, the reality is that his contract could prohibit younger players that are developing nicely to not be extended.

Lets say JH can't get signed, Woodley was only 3.5 sacks behind him and Timmons could probably turn in Woodley like numbers playing full time. The Steelers really are in a good position.

If JH is asking too much, I'd let him play this year for the peanuts of his current contract and franchise him next year. The Steelers would have him until he's 34, how much could he have left at that point? He can walk and let someone else overpay him and we now have Woodley and Timmons two year more experienced and signed long term (hopefully).

Pappy

That would be a shrewd business decision for sure, but it would be somewhat of a d!ck move by the Steelers, and this team does not operate that way. History has shown that we will pay full market value for our elite players in their prime (in spite of a reputation for being frugal, the reality is that we take care of our own handsomely...and especially the foundation guys), and Harrison is that right now. We will not overpay for guys that are over the hill, but with only 2 seasons of starting experience under his belt, Harrison is not there yet, in spite of what his numerical age might be. For a guy that was voted team MVP by his teammate 2 years in a row, was named NFL defensive player of the year this past season, has seemingly countless memorable "splash" plays in his personal highlight reel (including perhaps the greatest individual play in Super Bowl history), you don't screw this guy over by paying him another year of the peanut-salary he signed when he was Porter's backup, then only one year's worth of a salary commensurate with the top LB's in the league via the franchise tag. That would make the team look bad in the eyes of all the other players who realize that Harrison is one guy that truly deserves to get paid. The Steelers are a well-respected organization by pretty much everyone, but would Woodley and Timmons be so quick to re-sign here if they saw that we screwed over a beast like Harrison? This deal will get done. He has earned a payday and deserves whatever he gets.

The Steelers will try to do the right thing for BOTH Harrison and the Steelers. THAT IS how they do business. It is equally incumbant on Harrison to do what is good for the team too. This nonsense about being underpaid in the past is just that. No one forced him to sign his last contract and he clearly became a millionaire by signing it.

The Steelers will guard themselves against getting locked into a Jason Gildon type deal where they overpay for a player who possibily to no ones fault has his play decline precipitously as he got older. Say what you want but Harrison is over 30 and by any metric that is when performance begins to decline. If I'm the Steelers thinking about total priorities I'm not sure I totally ignore that. The reality is that on defense Woodley and Timmons are probably both more importnat to long term success than Harrison.

papillon
02-26-2009, 01:44 PM
Harrison would struggle elsewhere.

He's a system player - as good as he is in our system.

He's not a fast learner either.

He's struggled to learn our system. He's even admitted he's still got to learn the whole defense.

It'd take him 2 years to contribute somewhere else at least.

And he's not getting younger.

And he's not gonna win another team over with his personality.

He'll sign for what we offer.

Or Timmons can take his slot and break his sack record.

Considering that Harrison was a demi-god here a few short weeks ago, it is surprising to see someone suddenly minimizing his accomplishments and assuming that Timmons (a part time ILB so far in his pro career) is going to go ahead and just break the sack record that stood since the mid 80's (Greg Lloyd, Kevin Greene, Jason Gildon, Joey Porter, etc. could not touch Meriweather's 15 sack season it in their careers here). Yikes.

No one, includeing me, believed that signing Harrison would become an issue this off season, it seemed to be fata compli. Now, based on the articles I've read, the deal isn't as definite as it once was. As has been mentioned, we all love JH's passion and style of play and would love for him to be a Steeler until he retires, the reality is that his contract could prohibit younger players that are developing nicely to not be extended.

Lets say JH can't get signed, Woodley was only 3.5 sacks behind him and Timmons could probably turn in Woodley like numbers playing full time. The Steelers really are in a good position.

If JH is asking too much, I'd let him play this year for the peanuts of his current contract and franchise him next year. The Steelers would have him until he's 34, how much could he have left at that point? He can walk and let someone else overpay him and we now have Woodley and Timmons two year more experienced and signed long term (hopefully).

Pappy

That would be a shrewd business decision for sure, but it would be somewhat of a d!ck move by the Steelers, and this team does not operate that way. History has shown that we will pay full market value for our elite players in their prime (in spite of a reputation for being frugal, the reality is that we take care of our own handsomely...and especially the foundation guys), and Harrison is that right now. We will not overpay for guys that are over the hill, but with only 2 seasons of starting experience under his belt, Harrison is not there yet, in spite of what his numerical age might be. For a guy that was voted team MVP by his teammate 2 years in a row, was named NFL defensive player of the year this past season, has seemingly countless memorable "splash" plays in his personal highlight reel (including perhaps the greatest individual play in Super Bowl history), you don't screw this guy over by paying him another year of the peanut-salary he signed when he was Porter's backup, then only one year's worth of a salary commensurate with the top LB's in the league via the franchise tag. That would make the team look bad in the eyes of all the other players who realize that Harrison is one guy that truly deserves to get paid. The Steelers are a well-respected organization by pretty much everyone, but would Woodley and Timmons be so quick to re-sign here if they saw that we screwed over a beast like Harrison? This deal will get done. He has earned a payday and deserves whatever he gets.

It would be a shrewd business move to be sure and one that Harrison would not enjoy, I'm sure. But, if he's going to hold them over the barrel for too much money and cause issues with younger players contract extensions, etc., they will have to do it, regardless, of what others think.

You are correct the Steelers pay their foundation players handsomely and I'm certain the first offer by the Steelers was a substantial increase for Harrison. I would hate to see him overplay his hand, he knows the Steelers will pay him, he also should know that they won't jeopardize the future either.

Pappy

feltdizz
02-26-2009, 03:33 PM
This could be a problem...

He deserves to get paid... but with a SB in hand we could really screw him over...
but we paid FWP after the fact as well... so I think we make him the highest paid player on D... he has a good 4 years left in him so sign him to five years.

Dude is a beast.. no way we let him go.

papillon
02-26-2009, 03:57 PM
This could be a problem...

He deserves to get paid... but with a SB in hand we could really screw him over...
but we paid FWP after the fact as well... so I think we make him the highest paid player on D... he has a good 4 years left in him so sign him to five years.

Dude is a beast.. no way we let him go.

At what cost to the team? What would a 5 year deal look like? How much guaranteed? Are you willing to jeopardize the future (Timmons, Woodley, MIller, Troy) for JH?

He is a beast and one we haven't seen in Pittsburgh in awhile. I want him to be a Steeler; he's a Steeler through and through, but, business always rears its ugly head.

Pappy

papillon
02-26-2009, 03:59 PM
The Steelers will try to do the right thing for BOTH Harrison and the Steelers. THAT IS how they do business. It is equally incumbant on Harrison to do what is good for the team too. This nonsense about being underpaid in the past is just that. No one forced him to sign his last contract and he clearly became a millionaire by signing it.

The Steelers will guard themselves against getting locked into a Jason Gildon type deal where they overpay for a player who possibily to no ones fault has his play decline precipitously as he got older. Say what you want but Harrison is over 30 and by any metric that is when performance begins to decline. If I'm the Steelers thinking about total priorities I'm not sure I totally ignore that. The reality is that on defense Woodley and Timmons are probably both more importnat to long term success than Harrison.

That's exactly what I've been saying. James is going to have to give a bit. The Steelers are willing to pay him (they've proven that in the past), but, they are also going to expect a little from his side of the deal.

Pappy

feltdizz
02-26-2009, 04:11 PM
This could be a problem...

He deserves to get paid... but with a SB in hand we could really screw him over...
but we paid FWP after the fact as well... so I think we make him the highest paid player on D... he has a good 4 years left in him so sign him to five years.

Dude is a beast.. no way we let him go.

At what cost to the team? What would a 5 year deal look like? How much guaranteed? Are you willing to jeopardize the future (Timmons, Woodley, MIller, Troy) for JH?

He is a beast and one we haven't seen in Pittsburgh in awhile. I want him to be a Steeler; he's a Steeler through and through, but, business always rears its ugly head.

Pappy

At a hefty cost to the team... I know it sounds crazy but a guy like this does not come around often. Timmons, Woodley.. hell even Troy to a lesser extent...are not who they are without JH and what teams do to stop him. He is our anchor on defense and should be paid for it. He is a young 30 too...

I'm not saying "break the bank" but uhhh, Heath Miller..."I like you and all" but you are expendable when it comes to JH.. Spaeth did a fine job filling in for Miller..his blocking isn't as good but Miller isn't great either...

I'm not a numbers guy but he has to get top 5 LB money... imagine last season without him..we would've been 7-9.

feltdizz
02-26-2009, 04:16 PM
The Steelers will try to do the right thing for BOTH Harrison and the Steelers. THAT IS how they do business. It is equally incumbant on Harrison to do what is good for the team too. This nonsense about being underpaid in the past is just that. No one forced him to sign his last contract and he clearly became a millionaire by signing it.

The Steelers will guard themselves against getting locked into a Jason Gildon type deal where they overpay for a player who possibily to no ones fault has his play decline precipitously as he got older. Say what you want but Harrison is over 30 and by any metric that is when performance begins to decline. If I'm the Steelers thinking about total priorities I'm not sure I totally ignore that. The reality is that on defense Woodley and Timmons are probably both more importnat to long term success than Harrison.

I hear you but I disagree... I don't think we pay him the type of money that makes Timmons and Woodley expendable.. but you pay him the kind of money that makes him happy/appreciated AS A STEELER.. or you end up losing Timmons and Woodley cause they know that putting up DPOTY type numbers and having a SB record INT return gets you peanuts in Pittsburgh.

papillon
02-26-2009, 04:22 PM
This could be a problem...

He deserves to get paid... but with a SB in hand we could really screw him over...
but we paid FWP after the fact as well... so I think we make him the highest paid player on D... he has a good 4 years left in him so sign him to five years.

Dude is a beast.. no way we let him go.

At what cost to the team? What would a 5 year deal look like? How much guaranteed? Are you willing to jeopardize the future (Timmons, Woodley, MIller, Troy) for JH?

He is a beast and one we haven't seen in Pittsburgh in awhile. I want him to be a Steeler; he's a Steeler through and through, but, business always rears its ugly head.

Pappy

At a hefty cost to the team... I know it sounds crazy but a guy like this does not come around often. Timmons, Woodley.. hell even Troy to a lesser extent...are not who they are without JH and what teams do to stop him. He is our anchor on defense and should be paid for it. He is a young 30 too...

I'm not saying "break the bank" but uhhh, Heath Miller..."I like you and all" but you are expendable when it comes to JH.. Spaeth did a fine job filling in for Miller..his blocking isn't as good but Miller isn't great either...

I'm not a numbers guy but he has to get top 5 LB money... imagine last season without him..we would've been 7-9.

JH was not worth 8 wins, no way, no how. The defense would have probably been top 10 w/o JH and inserting Timmons full time. Too many play makers on that defense for me to believe that JH was worth 8 wins. They need to pay him, they can't just give him a blank check.

Hopefully, this all falls under "negotiating" and they start far apart and then each side gives ground a bit and they find the win/win situation.

Pappy

Oviedo
02-26-2009, 04:31 PM
This could be a problem...

He deserves to get paid... but with a SB in hand we could really screw him over...
but we paid FWP after the fact as well... so I think we make him the highest paid player on D... he has a good 4 years left in him so sign him to five years.

Dude is a beast.. no way we let him go.

At what cost to the team? What would a 5 year deal look like? How much guaranteed? Are you willing to jeopardize the future (Timmons, Woodley, MIller, Troy) for JH?

He is a beast and one we haven't seen in Pittsburgh in awhile. I want him to be a Steeler; he's a Steeler through and through, but, business always rears its ugly head.

Pappy

At a hefty cost to the team... I know it sounds crazy but a guy like this does not come around often. Timmons, Woodley.. hell even Troy to a lesser extent...are not who they are without JH and what teams do to stop him. He is our anchor on defense and should be paid for it. He is a young 30 too...

I'm not saying "break the bank" but uhhh, Heath Miller..."I like you and all" but you are expendable when it comes to JH.. Spaeth did a fine job filling in for Miller..his blocking isn't as good but Miller isn't great either...

I'm not a numbers guy but he has to get top 5 LB money... imagine last season without him..we would've been 7-9.

JH was not worth 8 wins, no way, no how. The defense would have probably been top 10 w/o JH and inserting Timmons full time. Too many play makers on that defense for me to believe that JH was worth 8 wins. They need to pay him, they can't just give him a blank check.

Hopefully, this all falls under "negotiating" and they start far apart and then each side gives ground a bit and they find the win/win situation.

Pappy

Couldn't agree more.

feltdizz
02-26-2009, 04:40 PM
This could be a problem...

He deserves to get paid... but with a SB in hand we could really screw him over...
but we paid FWP after the fact as well... so I think we make him the highest paid player on D... he has a good 4 years left in him so sign him to five years.

Dude is a beast.. no way we let him go.

At what cost to the team? What would a 5 year deal look like? How much guaranteed? Are you willing to jeopardize the future (Timmons, Woodley, MIller, Troy) for JH?

He is a beast and one we haven't seen in Pittsburgh in awhile. I want him to be a Steeler; he's a Steeler through and through, but, business always rears its ugly head.

Pappy

At a hefty cost to the team... I know it sounds crazy but a guy like this does not come around often. Timmons, Woodley.. hell even Troy to a lesser extent...are not who they are without JH and what teams do to stop him. He is our anchor on defense and should be paid for it. He is a young 30 too...

I'm not saying "break the bank" but uhhh, Heath Miller..."I like you and all" but you are expendable when it comes to JH.. Spaeth did a fine job filling in for Miller..his blocking isn't as good but Miller isn't great either...

I'm not a numbers guy but he has to get top 5 LB money... imagine last season without him..we would've been 7-9.

JH was not worth 8 wins, no way, no how. The defense would have probably been top 10 w/o JH and inserting Timmons full time. Too many play makers on that defense for me to believe that JH was worth 8 wins. They need to pay him, they can't just give him a blank check.

Hopefully, this all falls under "negotiating" and they start far apart and then each side gives ground a bit and they find the win/win situation.

Pappy

we finished 12-4 so I gave him credit for 5 wins... 3 instantly come to mind and I threw 2 more in because he had 101 tackles and countless double teams and who knows how many QB pressures he had...

Baltimore (forced fumble for Woodley TD in first win)
San Diego (safety that turned the game around in first win)
Pats* (2 second half sacks/fumbles)

also remember Woodley was real quiet for a few games last year...

feltdizz
02-26-2009, 04:44 PM
JH was not worth 8 wins, no way, no how. The defense would have probably been top 10 w/o JH and inserting Timmons full time. Too many play makers on that defense for me to believe that JH was worth 8 wins. They need to pay him, they can't just give him a blank check.

Hopefully, this all falls under "negotiating" and they start far apart and then each side gives ground a bit and they find the win/win situation.

Pappy

Couldn't agree more.

Pap added the playoffs wins as well... if you look closer it's 5 wins I credited him for...
and the 3 games I mentioned are hard to argue with.. sure it's a team game but we all watched JH take over games when we needed a play.

Mister Pittsburgh
02-26-2009, 06:09 PM
If we franchised Harrison after this coming season, what would that cost for an OLB?

pittpete
02-26-2009, 06:12 PM
If we franchised Harrison after this coming season, what would that cost for an OLB?

Who the hell can tell when that moron Al Davis is still allowed to offer outrageous contracts
Can you believe Julius Peppers can make 16 million plus being franchised..

_SteeL_CurtaiN_
02-26-2009, 06:38 PM
If the choices are sign and extend Harrison this year and potentially lose Woodley and Timmons due to Harrison's contract and the salary cap, I'd let Harrison play out his contract next year and work on extending Woodley and Timmons. We'd get Harrison cheap for one more year with Woodley and then Timmons would take over. Harrison would be another year older and worth less in FA.

This is his time to get paid and the Steelers appear to want to pay him. He should understand how the Steelers do business though and he's going to have to give a little if he wants that money this year.

If the Steelers play hard ball and don't give in, Harrison is taking a risk of injury, less production and age to take a toll on him next year. The Steelers have the stronger hand in this poker game, I hope they use it.

Pappy

I am with Pappy, I love Harrison and want him here but, No way do we sacrifice Woodley and Timmons to appease the older albeit great player. Losing either of those young guys would be a real shame and would surprise and deppress the heck out of me. Their upside is phenominal especially Timmons he could be a very special player IMHO.

NorthCoast
02-26-2009, 07:56 PM
Harrison's agent: Talks with Steelers 'not close'

http://abclocal.go.com/wtvg/story?secti ... id=3934229 (http://abclocal.go.com/wtvg/story?section=news/sports/pro/football&sa=NFL&eid=3934229)


"We're talking and meeting pretty regularly, almost daily, but we're having a difficult time getting to where we need to be," Parise said. .

What a trite and self-serving statement. There is a world of difference between "where we NEED to be", and where they WANT to be. All players WANT to be paid the wealth of kings, but they don't necessarily NEED to be paid so. Fortunately the Steelers have been very good at paying core players what they NEED to be paid to stay and contribute. They won't and should not overpay a player. Players that WANT more than they are worth go elsewhere, ala J. Peesy, Faneca, and ARE.

Discipline of Steel
02-26-2009, 08:25 PM
You guys are all my BFFs for sure...but this conversation is just a little outlandish. The idea that if we pay Harrison top dollar, we have to give up on Wood and Timm is simply speculation on our part. Every team has a top paid guy on each side of the ball. JH is now that guy for us on D. The only sticking point is that negotiations are complicated in the changing landscape of NFL salaries. His situation is complicated so it will take time...But it will get done! and Dan Rooney wont make himself look like Al Davis doing it.

Also, as a friendly reminder to all those who advocate paying James Harrison peanuts then franchising him...he just may be reading this board! Check yourselves...

feltdizz
02-27-2009, 01:24 PM
You guys are all my BFFs for sure...but this conversation is just a little outlandish. The idea that if we pay Harrison top dollar, we have to give up on Wood and Timm is simply speculation on our part. Every team has a top paid guy on each side of the ball. JH is now that guy for us on D. The only sticking point is that negotiations are complicated in the changing landscape of NFL salaries. His situation is complicated so it will take time...But it will get done! and Dan Rooney wont make himself look like Al Davis doing it.

Also, as a friendly reminder to all those who advocate paying James Harrison peanuts then franchising him...he just may be reading this board! Check yourselves...

I think bringing up Woodley and Timmons is typical "GM/negotiation" talk...
I agree with you.. James is our leader on D now..
I think peanuts and franchising him would put a nasty funk in the air..

BradshawsHairdresser
02-27-2009, 02:16 PM
With all the outlandish money being paid out to players like Albert Haynesworth, I am no longer optimistic about the Steelers signing Harrison. His price tag undoubtedly just went way up...and we all know what the Steelers think about paying out that kind of dough to a player on the other side of 30...

:(

Oviedo
02-27-2009, 02:59 PM
With all the outlandish money being paid out to players like Albert Haynesworth, I am no longer optimistic about the Steelers signing Harrison. His price tag undoubtedly just went way up...and we all know what the Steelers think about paying out that kind of dough to a player on the other side of 30...

:(

I agree. I have no doubt that his agent wants at least Bart Scott-like money which is 5 years/$40M. I just don't see that happening for a very physical player who is over 30. His style of play is conducive to injuries for a player over 30.

flippy
02-27-2009, 03:07 PM
Harrison would struggle elsewhere.

He's a system player - as good as he is in our system.

He's not a fast learner either.

He's struggled to learn our system. He's even admitted he's still got to learn the whole defense.

It'd take him 2 years to contribute somewhere else at least.

And he's not getting younger.

And he's not gonna win another team over with his personality.

He'll sign for what we offer.

Or Timmons can take his slot and break his sack record.

Considering that Harrison was a demi-god here a few short weeks ago, it is surprising to see someone suddenly minimizing his accomplishments and assuming that Timmons (a part time ILB so far in his pro career) is going to go ahead and just break the sack record that stood since the mid 80's (Greg Lloyd, Kevin Greene, Jason Gildon, Joey Porter, etc. could not touch Meriweather's 15 sack season it in their careers here). Yikes.


Demi-gods sign long term contracts that are favorable to the team.

I love Harrison.

But if we don't get something done, I expect the next guy to step in with no drop off in production.

flippy
02-27-2009, 03:10 PM
Remember it was the D that couldn't stop AZ in the 4th quarter of the SuperBowl.

feltdizz
02-27-2009, 04:04 PM
Remember it was the D that couldn't stop AZ in the 4th quarter of the SuperBowl.

and the O that couldn't score from inside the 5 on 13 to 15 plays....

the D scored 7 points after a turnover by the O at the half....

pay the man..

Discipline of Steel
02-27-2009, 08:44 PM
Remember it was the D that couldn't stop AZ in the 4th quarter of the SuperBowl.

If it wasnt for James Harrison, we get dusted in the Super Bowl. In fact, we dont even make it to the Super Bowl. In fact, we dont even win our division. In fact, we dont even make the playoffs.