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mshifko
02-23-2009, 10:33 PM
think of all the offensive firepower we have right now?

an elite quarterback, future hall of fame WR, newly crowned SB XLIII MVP, a great tight end who can catch and block well, a quick pro bowl running back, first round running back who will be a STUD for us, a former texas standout who will play big in his second season, the best 3rd down back in the league, a goal line specialist, etc...if nate stays, he's a pretty athletic dude who has a high ceiling...

keep in mind, we did win a super bowl with our offensive line not even playing up to pittsburgh standards for the vast majority of the season...they'll only get better IMHO

we have a ton of weapons offensively...

Mister Pittsburgh
02-23-2009, 11:42 PM
A guy I like as a weapon and feel is totally underutilized is Matt Spaeth. In the two weeks that Heath was down this year Spaeth caught 12 balls for 108yds. The rest of the entire season combined he had 6 catches for 34yds.

Spaeth is 6'7" 270lbs. He wasn't drafted to run block. He has good hands if you throw him the football. Spaeth was on the field in a lot of two TE sets and they never throw to him. I think a guy that tall could be a huge weapon on offense myself. I think this is another prime example of Arians not utilizing all of his weapons properly.

sd steel
02-24-2009, 02:45 AM
A guy I like as a weapon and feel is totally underutilized is Matt Spaeth. In the two weeks that Heath was down this year Spaeth caught 12 balls for 108yds. The rest of the entire season combined he had 6 catches for 34yds.

Spaeth is 6'7" 270lbs. He wasn't drafted to run block. He has good hands if you throw him the football. Spaeth was on the field in a lot of two TE sets and they never throw to him. I think a guy that tall could be a huge weapon on offense myself. I think this is another prime example of Arians not utilizing all of his weapons properly.

If you look at the stats, Spaeth would have got the ball about six percent of the time, but would you rather Spaeth get the ball more than Holmes or Ward or Miller or Washington or Moore? These number were based on approximately 480 offensive plays this year and going on the fact that Ben throws at around a 55% completion rate. We try to run half the time, and Ward caught 82 passes.

Yes we could use Spaeth more, but although he is big, he doesn't get any YAC.

Oviedo
02-24-2009, 08:32 AM
[quote="Mister Pittsburgh":2y4596us]A guy I like as a weapon and feel is totally underutilized is Matt Spaeth. In the two weeks that Heath was down this year Spaeth caught 12 balls for 108yds. The rest of the entire season combined he had 6 catches for 34yds.

Spaeth is 6'7" 270lbs. He wasn't drafted to run block. He has good hands if you throw him the football. Spaeth was on the field in a lot of two TE sets and they never throw to him. I think a guy that tall could be a huge weapon on offense myself. I think this is another prime example of Arians not utilizing all of his weapons properly.

If you look at the stats, Spaeth would have got the ball about six percent of the time, but would you rather Spaeth get the ball more than Holmes or Ward or Miller or Washington or Moore? These number were based on approximately 480 offensive plays this year and going on the fact that Ben throws at around a 55% completion rate. We try to run half the time, and Ward caught 82 passes.

Yes we could use Spaeth more, but although he is big, he doesn't get any YAC.[/quote:2y4596us]

Many times I would like to see Spaeth get those opportunities for the safe chain moving receptions versus forcing passes to WRs, particularly Washington which hopefully will no longer be a problem after this week. YAC doesn't happen if the pas isn't caught.

A controlled short passing game can be as effective, if not more, than a ball control running game. Plus if you get the LBs off the LOS and turning and chasing TEs it open up lanes for draws and delays to the RBs.

Mister Pittsburgh
02-24-2009, 08:52 AM
[quote="Mister Pittsburgh":1sshw3et]A guy I like as a weapon and feel is totally underutilized is Matt Spaeth. In the two weeks that Heath was down this year Spaeth caught 12 balls for 108yds. The rest of the entire season combined he had 6 catches for 34yds.

Spaeth is 6'7" 270lbs. He wasn't drafted to run block. He has good hands if you throw him the football. Spaeth was on the field in a lot of two TE sets and they never throw to him. I think a guy that tall could be a huge weapon on offense myself. I think this is another prime example of Arians not utilizing all of his weapons properly.

If you look at the stats, Spaeth would have got the ball about six percent of the time, but would you rather Spaeth get the ball more than Holmes or Ward or Miller or Washington or Moore? These number were based on approximately 480 offensive plays this year and going on the fact that Ben throws at around a 55% completion rate. We try to run half the time, and Ward caught 82 passes.

Yes we could use Spaeth more, but although he is big, he doesn't get any YAC.

Many times I would like to see Spaeth get those opportunities for the safe chain moving receptions versus forcing passes to WRs, particularly Washington which hopefully will no longer be a problem after this week. YAC doesn't happen if the pas isn't caught.

A controlled short passing game can be as effective, if not more, than a ball control running game. Plus if you get the LBs off the LOS and turning and chasing TEs it open up lanes for draws and delays to the RBs.[/quote:1sshw3et]

Exactly my thoughts and what I have thought for about 2 seasons now. We have a lot of weapons but force the run way too much. We showed against the Ravens twice and the Cards in the Superbowl (first half) what a short, high percentage passing game can do. We moved the ball pretty much at will when we went into this type of offense rather than the one where everyone bunches on one side and the D knows exactly where the ball is going to be run.

Oviedo
02-24-2009, 09:04 AM
[quote="sd steel":2ptb0ndz][quote="Mister Pittsburgh":2ptb0ndz]A guy I like as a weapon and feel is totally underutilized is Matt Spaeth. In the two weeks that Heath was down this year Spaeth caught 12 balls for 108yds. The rest of the entire season combined he had 6 catches for 34yds.

Spaeth is 6'7" 270lbs. He wasn't drafted to run block. He has good hands if you throw him the football. Spaeth was on the field in a lot of two TE sets and they never throw to him. I think a guy that tall could be a huge weapon on offense myself. I think this is another prime example of Arians not utilizing all of his weapons properly.

If you look at the stats, Spaeth would have got the ball about six percent of the time, but would you rather Spaeth get the ball more than Holmes or Ward or Miller or Washington or Moore? These number were based on approximately 480 offensive plays this year and going on the fact that Ben throws at around a 55% completion rate. We try to run half the time, and Ward caught 82 passes.

Yes we could use Spaeth more, but although he is big, he doesn't get any YAC.

Many times I would like to see Spaeth get those opportunities for the safe chain moving receptions versus forcing passes to WRs, particularly Washington which hopefully will no longer be a problem after this week. YAC doesn't happen if the pas isn't caught.

A controlled short passing game can be as effective, if not more, than a ball control running game. Plus if you get the LBs off the LOS and turning and chasing TEs it open up lanes for draws and delays to the RBs.[/quote:2ptb0ndz]

Exactly my thoughts and what I have thought for about 2 seasons now. We have a lot of weapons but force the run way too much. We showed against the Ravens twice and the Cards in the Superbowl (first half) what a short, high percentage passing game can do. We moved the ball pretty much at will when we went into this type of offense rather than the one where everyone bunches on one side and the D knows exactly where the ball is going to be run.[/quote:2ptb0ndz]

I neither love nor hate Arians but this is the biggest disappointment I have. We should be using TEs much more because we have legit weapons. Not sure if that is Arians or Big Ben not wanting to throw short and his desire to go for the big play.

If Ben throws to the TEs just 4-6 times more every game we could probably cut sacks by one-third.

Jooser
02-24-2009, 09:26 AM
I think Spaeth is an excellent option on first down out the two TE set. Play action to Willie to freeze the LBs and send Spaeth and Heath out at the same time. One of those guys is open for a decent gain to either move the chains or set up second and short. This is also a viable option of third and short IMHO. :idea:

Mister Pittsburgh
02-24-2009, 09:58 AM
Spaeth is 6'7" and 270lbs and he has good hands for a big man. With our struggles in the redzone wouldn't you try and isolate him and give him a jump ball or two in the endzone? Is continually getting stuffed with your short yardage run attempts really a better option than trying that? Have Heath and Spaeth out as receiving options in the redzone so one of those huge guys would be one on one with someone smaller more than likely.

papillon
02-24-2009, 10:06 AM
Here's the break down of 303 completions this past season.

Hines ------ 81 ------ 26.7%
Santonio --- 55 ------ 18.2%
Heath ------ 48 ------ 15.8%
Nate ------- 40 ------ 13.2%
Mewelde ---- 40 ----- 13.2%
Matt -------- 17 ------ 5.6%
The rest ---- 22 ------- 7.3%

In "The rest" category falls Limas (6), Willie (3), Ben (1), Russell (1), Rashard (2), Davis (5), McHugh (3) and Baker (1). Those aren't going to get redistributed exclusively to Spaeth every team has those guys that less than 10 balls in a season.

That leaves Hines, Santonio, Heath, Mewelde and Nate to use as areas of reduction to get Spaeth more looks and catches. I'm not sure that's what you want to do in an attempt to add firepower to the offense. Spaeth is going to be one of those guys that makes other teams nuts, because, they're going to cover Ward, Holmes and Moore perfectly on a 3rd down play and Spaeth will kill them with a chain moving catch as the third or fourth option.

Every team has guys like that just seem to make plays that extend drives, but, aren't their "go to" guy. If Spaeth can fulfill that role the Steelers will be fine and have to realize that once he plays out his first contract he'll probably move on and the Steelers need to plan for that.

Pappy

Mister Pittsburgh
02-24-2009, 10:16 AM
Here's the break down of 303 completions this past season.

Hines ------ 81 ------ 26.7%
Santonio --- 55 ------ 18.2%
Heath ------ 48 ------ 15.8%
Nate ------- 40 ------ 13.2%
Mewelde ---- 40 ----- 13.2%
Matt -------- 17 ------ 5.6%
The rest ---- 22 ------- 7.3%

In "The rest" category falls Limas (6), Willie (3), Ben (1), Russell (1), Rashard (2), Davis (5), McHugh (3) and Baker (1). Those aren't going to get redistributed exclusively to Spaeth every team has those guys that less than 10 balls in a season.

That leaves Hines, Santonio, Heath, Mewelde and Nate to use as areas of reduction to get Spaeth more looks and catches. I'm not sure that's what you want to do in an attempt to add firepower to the offense. Spaeth is going to be one of those guys that makes other teams nuts, because, they're going to cover Ward, Holmes and Moore perfectly on a 3rd down play and Spaeth will kill them with a chain moving catch as the third or fourth option.

Every team has guys like that just seem to make plays that extend drives, but, aren't their "go to" guy. If Spaeth can fulfill that role the Steelers will be fine and have to realize that once he plays out his first contract he'll probably move on and the Steelers need to plan for that.

Pappy

You are basing this off of keeping the number of pass attempts the same. How about take 4 handoffs to Mewelde Moore, Willie Parker, Gary Russell, whichever, on the 3 yardline or in and toss one to the corner.

Northern_Blitz
02-24-2009, 10:48 AM
You are basing this off of keeping the number of pass attempts the same. How about take 4 handoffs to Mewelde Moore, Willie Parker, Gary Russell, whichever, on the 3 yardline or in and toss one to the corner.

I don't know how Ben's health would take increasing our passing attempts with our current OL.

Oviedo
02-24-2009, 10:56 AM
[quote="Mister Pittsburgh":3v3cogz6]You are basing this off of keeping the number of pass attempts the same. How about take 4 handoffs to Mewelde Moore, Willie Parker, Gary Russell, whichever, on the 3 yardline or in and toss one to the corner.

I don't know how Ben's health would take increasing our passing attempts with our current OL.[/quote:3v3cogz6]

If Ben would throw more 6-8 yard dump offs to Miller and Speath and not look for Ward , Holmes and Wsashington to get open 20 yards down the field he would cut the number of times he is hit significantly because the opposing LBs would be forced to get out of the box.

Ben forced a lot of passes to Washington this past season.

feelthesteel
02-24-2009, 08:13 PM
I personally
would like to see a better ground assault
hope Mendy busts out next season -holds on to the ball especially
lets save Ben from gettin killed. Ram it down opponents throats.

WERE PITTSBURGH -- WE DICTATE THE TEMPO

Mister Pittsburgh
02-24-2009, 08:36 PM
I personally
would like to see a better ground assault
hope Mendy busts out next season -holds on to the ball especially
lets save Ben from gettin killed. Ram it down opponents throats.

WERE PITTSBURGH -- WE DICTATE THE TEMPO

The only time Ben gets killed in the passing game is when he is taking 5 step drops on pass plays that take 30 seconds to develop. The types of pass plays we need to increase in their frequency are the quick hitters. No time for the defenders to get to Ben if he is in shotgun and gets rid of the ball quickly on a shorter route.

feelthesteel
02-24-2009, 08:42 PM
i agree
but our running game
should improve too

papillon
02-25-2009, 09:56 AM
Here's the break down of 303 completions this past season.

Hines ------ 81 ------ 26.7%
Santonio --- 55 ------ 18.2%
Heath ------ 48 ------ 15.8%
Nate ------- 40 ------ 13.2%
Mewelde ---- 40 ----- 13.2%
Matt -------- 17 ------ 5.6%
The rest ---- 22 ------- 7.3%

In "The rest" category falls Limas (6), Willie (3), Ben (1), Russell (1), Rashard (2), Davis (5), McHugh (3) and Baker (1). Those aren't going to get redistributed exclusively to Spaeth every team has those guys that less than 10 balls in a season.

That leaves Hines, Santonio, Heath, Mewelde and Nate to use as areas of reduction to get Spaeth more looks and catches. I'm not sure that's what you want to do in an attempt to add firepower to the offense. Spaeth is going to be one of those guys that makes other teams nuts, because, they're going to cover Ward, Holmes and Moore perfectly on a 3rd down play and Spaeth will kill them with a chain moving catch as the third or fourth option.

Every team has guys like that just seem to make plays that extend drives, but, aren't their "go to" guy. If Spaeth can fulfill that role the Steelers will be fine and have to realize that once he plays out his first contract he'll probably move on and the Steelers need to plan for that.

Pappy

You are basing this off of keeping the number of pass attempts the same. How about take 4 handoffs to Mewelde Moore, Willie Parker, Gary Russell, whichever, on the 3 yardline or in and toss one to the corner.

I had to base it off of fact and not conjecture. Certainly, we could remove 4 handoffs per game and tilt the play selection more to the pass to try and get Spaeth some looks, but, at what cost? Incomplete passes stop the clock and if you're winning that's not what you really want. While Spaeth would certainly be a potential target, I would bet that Ward, Holmes, Miller, Washington would get the first two or three reads near the goal line.

Spaeth serves a purpose for this offense as it is currently constructed and I don't think I want the ball out of our experienced play makers hands just to get him more looks. His YAC is non-existent and for a big man he seems to be tackled easily.

Pappy

Oviedo
02-25-2009, 10:08 AM
[quote="Mister Pittsburgh":19lsbepo]A guy I like as a weapon and feel is totally underutilized is Matt Spaeth. In the two weeks that Heath was down this year Spaeth caught 12 balls for 108yds. The rest of the entire season combined he had 6 catches for 34yds.

Spaeth is 6'7" 270lbs. He wasn't drafted to run block. He has good hands if you throw him the football. Spaeth was on the field in a lot of two TE sets and they never throw to him. I think a guy that tall could be a huge weapon on offense myself. I think this is another prime example of Arians not utilizing all of his weapons properly.

If you look at the stats, Spaeth would have got the ball about six percent of the time, but would you rather Spaeth get the ball more than Holmes or Ward or Miller or Washington or Moore? These number were based on approximately 480 offensive plays this year and going on the fact that Ben throws at around a 55% completion rate. We try to run half the time, and Ward caught 82 passes.

Yes we could use Spaeth more, but although he is big, he doesn't get any YAC.[/quote:19lsbepo]

Spaeth could catch a 7 yard pattern take one step and fall forward and that is a 10 yard gain. He isn't going to break a 40 yard run but that shouldn't be his role. He should be an underneath option that we use more to set up 3rd and short or keep the chains moving while forcing the defense to react and account for him and Heath opening up opportunities for other playmakers on the offense.

If you watch how other teams defense us they almost totally ignore the short passing lanes and stack 7-8 in the box to shut down the run. We have not done a consistently good job exploiting that and when we do, like in the Super Bowl, we are very successful.

JUST-PLAIN-NASTY
02-25-2009, 10:38 AM
think of all the offensive firepower we have right now?

an elite quarterback, future hall of fame WR, newly crowned SB XLIII MVP, a great tight end who can catch and block well, a quick pro bowl running back, first round running back who will be a STUD for us, a former texas standout who will play big in his second season, the best 3rd down back in the league, a goal line specialist, etc...if nate stays, he's a pretty athletic dude who has a high ceiling...

keep in mind, we did win a super bowl with our offensive line not even playing up to pittsburgh standards for the vast majority of the season...they'll only get better IMHO

we have a ton of weapons offensively...

I'm happy with the weapons on O. If we can't retain Washington, I would like to see a WR added later 5-7. Possibly one with return ability. I don't think Baker or Nance can be the #4 if Washington leaves. Logan could provide the spark in the return game we are looking for. He could also give us the "Leon Washington" factor on 3rd & medium. That being said, if someone falls in the Steelers lap early...I would understand if they went in that direction and address OL/DL throughout the draft. Playmakers have a significant impact across the board on a defense and you can't teach speed!!!

Mister Pittsburgh
02-25-2009, 12:37 PM
Here's the break down of 303 completions this past season.

Hines ------ 81 ------ 26.7%
Santonio --- 55 ------ 18.2%
Heath ------ 48 ------ 15.8%
Nate ------- 40 ------ 13.2%
Mewelde ---- 40 ----- 13.2%
Matt -------- 17 ------ 5.6%
The rest ---- 22 ------- 7.3%

In "The rest" category falls Limas (6), Willie (3), Ben (1), Russell (1), Rashard (2), Davis (5), McHugh (3) and Baker (1). Those aren't going to get redistributed exclusively to Spaeth every team has those guys that less than 10 balls in a season.

That leaves Hines, Santonio, Heath, Mewelde and Nate to use as areas of reduction to get Spaeth more looks and catches. I'm not sure that's what you want to do in an attempt to add firepower to the offense. Spaeth is going to be one of those guys that makes other teams nuts, because, they're going to cover Ward, Holmes and Moore perfectly on a 3rd down play and Spaeth will kill them with a chain moving catch as the third or fourth option.

Every team has guys like that just seem to make plays that extend drives, but, aren't their "go to" guy. If Spaeth can fulfill that role the Steelers will be fine and have to realize that once he plays out his first contract he'll probably move on and the Steelers need to plan for that.

Pappy

You are basing this off of keeping the number of pass attempts the same. How about take 4 handoffs to Mewelde Moore, Willie Parker, Gary Russell, whichever, on the 3 yardline or in and toss one to the corner.

I had to base it off of fact and not conjecture. Certainly, we could remove 4 handoffs per game and tilt the play selection more to the pass to try and get Spaeth some looks, but, at what cost? Incomplete passes stop the clock and if you're winning that's not what you really want. While Spaeth would certainly be a potential target, I would bet that Ward, Holmes, Miller, Washington would get the first two or three reads near the goal line.

Spaeth serves a purpose for this offense as it is currently constructed and I don't think I want the ball out of our experienced play makers hands just to get him more looks. His YAC is non-existent and for a big man he seems to be tackled easily.

Pappy

If you are cool with the way we got stuffed on the goalline all the time with running the football then that is your opinion. I fwe are worried about burning clock instead of punching the ball into the endzone then something is wrong. None of the guys you listed are 6'7" tall which seems like a nice target in the redzone matched up against 6 foot tall DB's.

papillon
02-25-2009, 09:31 PM
[quote=papillon]Here's the break down of 303 completions this past season.

Hines ------ 81 ------ 26.7%
Santonio --- 55 ------ 18.2%
Heath ------ 48 ------ 15.8%
Nate ------- 40 ------ 13.2%
Mewelde ---- 40 ----- 13.2%
Matt -------- 17 ------ 5.6%
The rest ---- 22 ------- 7.3%

In "The rest" category falls Limas (6), Willie (3), Ben (1), Russell (1), Rashard (2), Davis (5), McHugh (3) and Baker (1). Those aren't going to get redistributed exclusively to Spaeth every team has those guys that less than 10 balls in a season.

That leaves Hines, Santonio, Heath, Mewelde and Nate to use as areas of reduction to get Spaeth more looks and catches. I'm not sure that's what you want to do in an attempt to add firepower to the offense. Spaeth is going to be one of those guys that makes other teams nuts, because, they're going to cover Ward, Holmes and Moore perfectly on a 3rd down play and Spaeth will kill them with a chain moving catch as the third or fourth option.

Every team has guys like that just seem to make plays that extend drives, but, aren't their "go to" guy. If Spaeth can fulfill that role the Steelers will be fine and have to realize that once he plays out his first contract he'll probably move on and the Steelers need to plan for that.

Pappy

You are basing this off of keeping the number of pass attempts the same. How about take 4 handoffs to Mewelde Moore, Willie Parker, Gary Russell, whichever, on the 3 yardline or in and toss one to the corner.

I had to base it off of fact and not conjecture. Certainly, we could remove 4 handoffs per game and tilt the play selection more to the pass to try and get Spaeth some looks, but, at what cost? Incomplete passes stop the clock and if you're winning that's not what you really want. While Spaeth would certainly be a potential target, I would bet that Ward, Holmes, Miller, Washington would get the first two or three reads near the goal line.

Spaeth serves a purpose for this offense as it is currently constructed and I don't think I want the ball out of our experienced play makers hands just to get him more looks. His YAC is non-existent and for a big man he seems to be tackled easily.

Pappy

If you are cool with the way we got stuffed on the goalline all the time with running the football then that is your opinion. I fwe are worried about burning clock instead of punching the ball into the endzone then something is wrong. None of the guys you listed are 6'7" tall which seems like a nice target in the redzone matched up against 6 foot tall DB's.[/quote:1o1z7aww]

And, my point is that just because he's in the game doesn't mean he's going to be tqargeted when you have guys like Ward, Holmes, Miller and Moore on the team. You can put him in the game, but, getting him touches eliminates touches from the real play makers.

I hated that we couldn't punch the ball into the endzone, but, Spaeth wasn't changing that. Be would look to Miller, Ward and Holmes first, Spaeth would be an after thought or the target on one of Ben's patented scrambles.

I'm hoping that Mendenhall will be the back we all believe he can be and be the hammer on the goal line.

Pappy