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View Full Version : What to do about NT? Round 1?



Oviedo
02-22-2009, 12:20 PM
We all know that a key to the 3-4 defense is having a very good NT to clog up the middle and absorb blockers. hampton was the best at this for a very long time but both his performance and motivation have to now be questioned. Hoke is a good back up but he is like 33 years old.

In this year's draft the two best NTs appear to be Raji and Brace out of BC. Raji is likely a Top 10-15 pick. The question is do we consider drafting Ron Brace at 1.32 given that with the proliferation of teams running the 3-4 he is unlikely to get past the early to middle Round 2.

I would support this because I think it fills what could become a serious need as early as this season or next. Anyone else like Terrence Taylor, Michigan or Sammie Hill, Stillman are definitely projects although Michigan players have come through for us on defense, e.g. Foote and Woodley.

Discipline of Steel
02-22-2009, 12:51 PM
So your real question is...do we take Brace or Mack/Unger at 32.

If we want to do both, we would have to package up some of our later picks...something I am a proponent of.

Oviedo
02-22-2009, 01:37 PM
So your real question is...do we take Brace or Mack/Unger at 32.

If we want to do both, we would have to package up some of our later picks...something I am a proponent of.

Yes. Question 1 is would you take Brace at 1.32? IMO our picks are essentially all next round picks anyway, e.g. our round 1 is really a round 2, etc. IMO I would take Brace at 1.32.

I do advocate trading down into the top of the second round to get an extra 4th and then package picks to move up from 2.64 into the middle of Round 2. I think we can get close to equal talent in the first 10 picks of Round 2 and still meet our needs as we would at 1.32.

Lebsteel
02-22-2009, 02:13 PM
It is a position of need, but IMO no way do we consider it in Rd. 1 unless Raji drops, which will not happen. Brace would be a huge reach in Rd. 1. Brace was seldom double teamed because he had Raji next to him who ate up the double teams. He might be a good pick at 64, but I'd rather see us get a 3-4 DE at 64, someone like Hood or Gilbert if they are still there.

pfelix73
02-22-2009, 03:22 PM
This is an idea that I propsed many days ago. Hampton's contract is up next year and we have to prepare for the future. Ron Brace is a realistic choice at 1.32 IMO.

I also believe they could trade up further into round 2 or even trade down from 1.32 to get one of those Centers and Brace.

AkronSteel
02-22-2009, 03:39 PM
I honestly want T. Taylor/Michigan more than any of the other DT prospects besides Raji! He looks like a Steeler NT with his size (height and weight) and he is from Michigan, and even though I detest the school from up north, they always tend to become good solid players for us! I really like the Pryor kid from Kentucky too! He isn't exactly a perfect fit for NT but he might just fit in as a big DE like Ngata does in Baltimore!

grotonsteel
02-22-2009, 04:41 PM
People are saying Terrence Taylor might go undrafted. He had a poor Senior Bowl..but i would like Steelers to take a flyer on Terrence Taylor in 7th.

steelernation77
02-22-2009, 07:47 PM
Taylor did 37 reps at the combine, more than any other DT. I don't know his arm length, but unless he has T Rex arms, that's good strength. He may be worth a later pick.

Brace may not be a great value, but Kiper ripped the Steelers for taking Hampton in the first if I remember correctly.

That being said, I'd rather go OL or DE if Jackson is available.

MaxAMillion
02-22-2009, 08:00 PM
Brace is not that athletic. He is pretty stiff actually. Teams would be looking to take him earlier if he was that good. Many teams are moving tothe 3-4 and yet Brace is not a first round pick.

I would hesitate to take Brace at all pesonally. I definitely would not take him in round 1.

Lebsteel
02-23-2009, 12:08 AM
I'll be very anxious to see how Sammie Lee Hill does tomorrow at the Combine. He has the size of Albert Haynesworth and could be worth one of our 3rd round picks. It looks like he could play DE or NT.

Lebsteel
02-23-2009, 01:49 PM
Check out these numbers for our future NT and DE candidates:
Chris Baker Hampton 6'2 326 4.99
Ron Brace Boston College 6'3 330 5.47 32
Sammie Lee Hill Stillman 6'4 329 5.11
Evander "Ziggy" Hood Missouri 6'3 300 4.89 34
Corvey Irvin Georgia 6'3 301 4.99
Terrance Knighton Temple 6'3 321 5.18
Alex Magee Purdue 6'3 298 5.05 30
Sen'Derrick Marks Auburn 6'2 306 5.01
Roy Miller Texas 6'1 310 4.97 36
Khalif Mitchell East Carolina 6'5 318 5.09 30
Fili Moala USC 6'4 305 5.09
Myron Pryor Kentucky 6'0 1/4 319 5.01
B.J. Raji Boston College 6'1 337 5.13 33
Darryl Richard Georgia Tech 6'2 303 -
Dorrell Scott Clemson 6'3 312 4.90
Terrance Taylor Michigan 6'0 306 5.24 37
Vance Walker Georgia Tech 6'2 304 5.33

I'm thinking Roy Miller, Dorrell Scott, Sammie Lee Hill, Alex Magee should all be on our 3rd Rd. charts. Ziggy Hood posted excellent numbers and may be out of reach at 64. Brace may be a choice at 64, but could be gone earlier. Raji is definitely out of reach at 32.

Oviedo
02-23-2009, 01:59 PM
Check out these numbers for our future NT and DE candidates:
Chris Baker Hampton 6'2 326 4.99
Ron Brace Boston College 6'3 330 5.47 32
Sammie Lee Hill Stillman 6'4 329 5.11
Evander "Ziggy" Hood Missouri 6'3 300 4.89 34
Corvey Irvin Georgia 6'3 301 4.99
Terrance Knighton Temple 6'3 321 5.18
Alex Magee Purdue 6'3 298 5.05 30
Sen'Derrick Marks Auburn 6'2 306 5.01
Roy Miller Texas 6'1 310 4.97 36
Khalif Mitchell East Carolina 6'5 318 5.09 30
Fili Moala USC 6'4 305 5.09
Myron Pryor Kentucky 6'0 1/4 319 5.01
B.J. Raji Boston College 6'1 337 5.13 33
Darryl Richard Georgia Tech 6'2 303 -
Dorrell Scott Clemson 6'3 312 4.90
Terrance Taylor Michigan 6'0 306 5.24 37
Vance Walker Georgia Tech 6'2 304 5.33

I'm thinking Roy Miller, Dorrell Scott, Sammie Lee Hill, Alex Magee should all be on our 3rd Rd. charts. Ziggy Hood posted excellent numbers and may be out of reach at 64. Brace may be a choice at 64, but could be gone earlier. Raji is definitely out of reach at 32.

I'm not sure Magee can play NT but the others may be worth a look. I'd also add Taylor. The lack of a good NT is why it is so hard to staff the 3-4 defense with the right players.

steelernation77
02-23-2009, 01:59 PM
Check out these numbers for our future NT and DE candidates:
Chris Baker Hampton 6'2 326 4.99
Ron Brace Boston College 6'3 330 5.47 32
Sammie Lee Hill Stillman 6'4 329 5.11
Evander "Ziggy" Hood Missouri 6'3 300 4.89 34
Corvey Irvin Georgia 6'3 301 4.99
Terrance Knighton Temple 6'3 321 5.18
Alex Magee Purdue 6'3 298 5.05 30
Sen'Derrick Marks Auburn 6'2 306 5.01
Roy Miller Texas 6'1 310 4.97 36
Khalif Mitchell East Carolina 6'5 318 5.09 30
Fili Moala USC 6'4 305 5.09
Myron Pryor Kentucky 6'0 1/4 319 5.01
B.J. Raji Boston College 6'1 337 5.13 33
Darryl Richard Georgia Tech 6'2 303 -
Dorrell Scott Clemson 6'3 312 4.90
Terrance Taylor Michigan 6'0 306 5.24 37
Vance Walker Georgia Tech 6'2 304 5.33

I'm thinking Roy Miller, Dorrell Scott, Sammie Lee Hill, Alex Magee should all be on our 3rd Rd. charts. Ziggy Hood posted excellent numbers and may be out of reach at 64. Brace may be a choice at 64, but could be gone earlier. Raji is definitely out of reach at 32.

A couple guys you left off are Tyson Jackson from LSU who could be a possibility at 32 and Jarron Gilbert from San Jose State who could be a possibility at 64. Both are potential DEs.

Oviedo
02-23-2009, 02:02 PM
One of the interesting aspects of this is whether we start rebuilding the DL from the inside out or vice versa. IMO getting a replacement for Hampton is a bigger priority this year than one for Kiesel or Smith. As far as the DE position you could probably get good players in Rounds 3-4. Getting a future NT is going to prove to be the most difficult task.

steelernation77
02-23-2009, 02:06 PM
One of the interesting aspects of this is whether we start rebuilding the DL from the inside out or vice versa. IMO getting a replacement for Hampton is a bigger priority this year than one for Kiesel or Smith. As far as the DE position you could probably get good players in Rounds 3-4. Getting a future NT is going to prove to be the most difficult task.

A dominant 3-4 DE can make a big difference though. Look what Ngata did for the Ravens or Richard Seymour for New England. More teams are running 3-4s so those guys could go earlier. Guys like Aaron Smith don't come along very often in later rounds.

If we can get Tyson Jackson I say we take him. He's got great size and athleticism, is battle tested. Unless a top OT is available I'd definitely take Jackson.

Lebsteel
02-23-2009, 02:06 PM
Check out these numbers for our future NT and DE candidates:
Chris Baker Hampton 6'2 326 4.99
Ron Brace Boston College 6'3 330 5.47 32
Sammie Lee Hill Stillman 6'4 329 5.11
Evander "Ziggy" Hood Missouri 6'3 300 4.89 34
Corvey Irvin Georgia 6'3 301 4.99
Terrance Knighton Temple 6'3 321 5.18
Alex Magee Purdue 6'3 298 5.05 30
Sen'Derrick Marks Auburn 6'2 306 5.01
Roy Miller Texas 6'1 310 4.97 36
Khalif Mitchell East Carolina 6'5 318 5.09 30
Fili Moala USC 6'4 305 5.09
Myron Pryor Kentucky 6'0 1/4 319 5.01
B.J. Raji Boston College 6'1 337 5.13 33
Darryl Richard Georgia Tech 6'2 303 -
Dorrell Scott Clemson 6'3 312 4.90
Terrance Taylor Michigan 6'0 306 5.24 37
Vance Walker Georgia Tech 6'2 304 5.33

I'm thinking Roy Miller, Dorrell Scott, Sammie Lee Hill, Alex Magee should all be on our 3rd Rd. charts. Ziggy Hood posted excellent numbers and may be out of reach at 64. Brace may be a choice at 64, but could be gone earlier. Raji is definitely out of reach at 32.

A couple guys you left off are Tyson Jackson from LSU who could be a possibility at 32 and Jarron Gilbert from San Jose State who could be a possibility at 64. Both are potential DEs.

Yes, those times above are from the DT group at the Combine. Gilbert and Jackson are in the DE group. Here are their numbers:

Jarron Gilbert San Jose State 6'5 288 4.81 35.5"
Tyson Jackson LSU 6'4 295 4.91 28.5"

steelernation77
02-23-2009, 02:12 PM
Check out these numbers for our future NT and DE candidates:
Chris Baker Hampton 6'2 326 4.99
Ron Brace Boston College 6'3 330 5.47 32
Sammie Lee Hill Stillman 6'4 329 5.11
Evander "Ziggy" Hood Missouri 6'3 300 4.89 34
Corvey Irvin Georgia 6'3 301 4.99
Terrance Knighton Temple 6'3 321 5.18
Alex Magee Purdue 6'3 298 5.05 30
Sen'Derrick Marks Auburn 6'2 306 5.01
Roy Miller Texas 6'1 310 4.97 36
Khalif Mitchell East Carolina 6'5 318 5.09 30
Fili Moala USC 6'4 305 5.09
Myron Pryor Kentucky 6'0 1/4 319 5.01
B.J. Raji Boston College 6'1 337 5.13 33
Darryl Richard Georgia Tech 6'2 303 -
Dorrell Scott Clemson 6'3 312 4.90
Terrance Taylor Michigan 6'0 306 5.24 37
Vance Walker Georgia Tech 6'2 304 5.33

I'm thinking Roy Miller, Dorrell Scott, Sammie Lee Hill, Alex Magee should all be on our 3rd Rd. charts. Ziggy Hood posted excellent numbers and may be out of reach at 64. Brace may be a choice at 64, but could be gone earlier. Raji is definitely out of reach at 32.

A couple guys you left off are Tyson Jackson from LSU who could be a possibility at 32 and Jarron Gilbert from San Jose State who could be a possibility at 64. Both are potential DEs.

Yes, those times above are from the DT group at the Combine. Gilbert and Jackson are in the DE group. Here are their numbers:

Jarron Gilbert San Jose State 6'5 288 4.81 35.5"
Tyson Jackson LSU 6'4 295 4.91 28.5"

Gilbert has is quite the athlete, but he was a bit of a one-year wonder in college, albeit that one year he lead the nation in TFLs. If we go OL in the first and he drops to us in the 2nd, I think he'd be a nice pick-up.

Oviedo
02-23-2009, 05:46 PM
Gilbert would be a good choice at 2.64.

Some mid range to late round picks worth a serious look for DE:

Rulon Davis, 6'5", 275lbs, Cal
Zach Potter, 6'7" 280lbs, Nebraska
Kyle Moore, 6'5", 272lbs, USC
Rashon Harris, 6'4", 300lbs, Oregon
Khalif Mitchell, 6'5", 316lbs, East Carolina
Wil Johnson, 6'5", 285lbs, Michigan

Eddie Spaghetti
02-23-2009, 06:22 PM
where is myron pryor rated? he looked good in what i saw of the drills and he was a very good player in the SEC.

could he be available in the 5th or 6th?

Lebsteel
02-23-2009, 06:27 PM
where is myron pryor rated? he looked good in what i saw of the drills and he was a very good player in the SEC.

could he be available in the 5th or 6th?
http://www.walterfootball.com/combine2009DT.php
Myron Pryor, Kentucky
Height: 6-0. Weight: 319.
Projected 40 Time: 5.05.
Combine 40 Time: .
Benchx225: . Vertical: .
Projected Round (2009): 5-6.

He seems a little short, but a very impressive 40 time for a 320 lb. man.

Eddie Spaghetti
02-23-2009, 06:36 PM
thanks.

he would be a pretty good pickup at the end of round 5. he faced some pretty good players in the eastern division.

RuthlessBurgher
02-23-2009, 08:49 PM
Gilbert would be a good choice at 2.64.

Some mid range to late round picks worth a serious look for DE:

Rulon Davis, 6'5", 275lbs, Cal
Zach Potter, 6'7" 280lbs, Nebraska
Kyle Moore, 6'5", 272lbs, USC
Rashon Harris, 6'4", 300lbs, Oregon
Khalif Mitchell, 6'5", 316lbs, East Carolina
Wil Johnson, 6'5", 285lbs, Michigan

They all have roughly the right body size to play 3-4 DE...who is the best football player among them, though?

Chadman
02-23-2009, 08:57 PM
where is myron pryor rated? he looked good in what i saw of the drills and he was a very good player in the SEC.

could he be available in the 5th or 6th?
http://www.walterfootball.com/combine2009DT.php
Myron Pryor, Kentucky
Height: 6-0. Weight: 319.
Projected 40 Time: 5.05.
Combine 40 Time: .
Benchx225: . Vertical: .
Projected Round (2009): 5-6.

He seems a little short, but a very impressive 40 time for a 320 lb. man.

Don't know about being too short- Casey is only 6'1".

Chadman
02-23-2009, 09:03 PM
Gilbert would be a good choice at 2.64.

Some mid range to late round picks worth a serious look for DE:

Rulon Davis, 6'5", 275lbs, Cal
Zach Potter, 6'7" 280lbs, Nebraska
Kyle Moore, 6'5", 272lbs, USC
Rashon Harris, 6'4", 300lbs, Oregon
Khalif Mitchell, 6'5", 316lbs, East Carolina
Wil Johnson, 6'5", 285lbs, Michigan

They all have roughly the right body size to play 3-4 DE...who is the best football player among them, though?

Chadman has heard good things about Khalif Mitchell.

If it was up to Chadman though, in regards to DE, the only 'early' pick he'd look at is Ziggy Hood, but you either have to 'overdraft' him at #32, or trade up from #64 to get him.

Better 'value' might come from the Georgia Tech boys of Vance Walker (possibly too short though at 6'2") & Darryl Richard. Both are stout at the point, with some pass rush ability. If the Steelers wanted to, both the 3rd round & 4th round picks could snare these guys, who might give good value for their positions drafted.

What's everyone's opinion on Roy Miller as a NT as compared to Terrance Taylor?

Chadman
02-23-2009, 09:10 PM
Just checked the results of the combine & noticed both Georgia Tech DT's are 6'2". Both might be too short to be super-effective 3-4 DE's. Ziggy Hood could be 'the one' at this point...

RuthlessBurgher
02-24-2009, 11:03 AM
where is myron pryor rated? he looked good in what i saw of the drills and he was a very good player in the SEC.

could he be available in the 5th or 6th?
http://www.walterfootball.com/combine2009DT.php
Myron Pryor, Kentucky
Height: 6-0. Weight: 319.
Projected 40 Time: 5.05.
Combine 40 Time: .
Benchx225: . Vertical: .
Projected Round (2009): 5-6.

He seems a little short, but a very impressive 40 time for a 320 lb. man.

Don't know about being too short- Casey is only 6'1".

Yup...you want your NT's to be short, stout, and tough to move (so the offensive line will need to use 2 guys to move him out of the way). 6'0" or 6'1" seems ideal and 320+ lbs. On the other hand, for 3-4 DE, you want taller guys who will be able to locate the ball carrier without having to extend their knees to look over the linemen (thereby losing their balance in the process). 6'5" or 6'6" seems ideal and right around 300 lbs.

aggiebones
02-24-2009, 12:01 PM
Are Hampton / Hoke going anywhere? We still have both this coming season. Use a 1st rounder on 1 now and likely you have to get rid of 1 of those guys ASAP. Hard to keep 3 NTs in a 3-4.
We have MUCH bigger concerns on the OL and DE. Next season this conversation may need to be addressed. How old is Hoke. He does pretty well when he's in there. He could bridge the gap for a couple seasons to break in a new guy if Hampton leaves next season. This is a Wait and see next year. H & H are older, but they aren't truly OLD yet.

MeetJoeGreene
02-24-2009, 12:20 PM
Are Hampton / Hoke going anywhere? We still have both this coming season. Use a 1st rounder on 1 now and likely you have to get rid of 1 of those guys ASAP. Hard to keep 3 NTs in a 3-4.
We have MUCH bigger concerns on the OL and DE. Next season this conversation may need to be addressed. How old is Hoke. He does pretty well when he's in there. He could bridge the gap for a couple seasons to break in a new guy if Hampton leaves next season. This is a Wait and see next year. H & H are older, but they aren't truly OLD yet.

My biggest question drafting a NT is then what happens to Hoke. He is getting up there too, but still quite good - to good to cut IMO. I would rather focus on DE (for whom our depth is nothing to speak of) ...

Lebsteel
02-24-2009, 12:25 PM
Are Hampton / Hoke going anywhere? We still have both this coming season. Use a 1st rounder on 1 now and likely you have to get rid of 1 of those guys ASAP. Hard to keep 3 NTs in a 3-4.
We have MUCH bigger concerns on the OL and DE. Next season this conversation may need to be addressed. How old is Hoke. He does pretty well when he's in there. He could bridge the gap for a couple seasons to break in a new guy if Hampton leaves next season. This is a Wait and see next year. H & H are older, but they aren't truly OLD yet.

Hoke is 33 when the season starts and Hampton will be 32. I think you are right, we could draft a developmental type NT this year who could play some DE. I'm thinking of someone like Samme Lee Hill or Dorrell Scott. I love the size, strength and agility of Hill and Scott:

Dorrell Scott Clemson 6'3 1/4 312 32 1/4" 9 7/8" 4.95 29
Sammie Lee Hill Stillman 6'3 7/8 329 34" 9 1/2" 5.15 27

aggiebones
02-24-2009, 12:51 PM
I think we have 1 more season of gambling with a 6th round pick to fill a hole there assuming 1 departs after a season or so. But we have time before spending big money on it. The only question in my mind is if Hampton can get on board all the way with Tomlin or if he'll be a thorn with Tomlin. If so, at some point Tomlin will cut him. As he ages he'll be less likely to be athletic at his weight. But we have 1 more year. And yes DE is more of a concern in my mind. That's 2 spots. We saw what happened when ASmith got hurt, we collapsed on defense. We need to reload a bit behind the starters there first.

Oviedo
02-24-2009, 01:08 PM
Are Hampton / Hoke going anywhere? We still have both this coming season. Use a 1st rounder on 1 now and likely you have to get rid of 1 of those guys ASAP. Hard to keep 3 NTs in a 3-4.
We have MUCH bigger concerns on the OL and DE. Next season this conversation may need to be addressed. How old is Hoke. He does pretty well when he's in there. He could bridge the gap for a couple seasons to break in a new guy if Hampton leaves next season. This is a Wait and see next year. H & H are older, but they aren't truly OLD yet.

My biggest question drafting a NT is then what happens to Hoke. He is getting up there too, but still quite good - to good to cut IMO. I would rather focus on DE (for whom our depth is nothing to speak of) ...

Hoke has shown the flexibility to play both NT and DE. he is a completely different type of player than Hampton. Hoke is smaller and quicker and more of a penetrator than Hampton who is a set your feet and don't move player. I think given Hoke only has another year or two left drafting a good NT is importnat because hampton is out of contract after next season and his play is slipping. NT for a 3-4 is harder to find than DE so go NT in this draft and let him learn.

aggiebones
02-25-2009, 01:16 PM
Yes, but my point was that we aren't gonna house 3 NTs. So you prematurely must cut 1 of the guys now a year early if you are bringing in a 1st round NT. I think this is a fine discussion for next offseason. Right now we have 2 good NTs that can play 1 more season minimum after this SB. Let's get the OL some help and maybe a day 1 DE.

MeetJoeGreene
02-25-2009, 01:32 PM
Yes, but my point was that we aren't gonna house 3 NTs. So you prematurely must cut 1 of the guys now a year early if you are bringing in a 1st round NT. I think this is a fine discussion for next offseason. Right now we have 2 good NTs that can play 1 more season minimum after this SB. Let's get the OL some help and maybe a day 1 DE.

I think Oviedo's point (and it has me thinking) is that if you get a good NT in the draft, slide Hoke to a DE as he posits Hoke will be a better backup there than one we currently have AND offer positional flexibility that Tomlin covets.

I am not sure I totally agree, but I am taking it under consideration.

AkronSteel
02-25-2009, 02:12 PM
I think that if we can find, or think we an find a good NT in the draft that Big Snack may actually be a cap casualty! There really isn't much drop off in terms of production when Hoke steps in and plays for an injured Hampton, and if we can find a good quality future NT in the draft then I think we maybe go into next year with Hoke as the starter and the rookie backing him up until he becomes accustomed to the position and the system. Don't get me wrong, I appreciate what Casey has contributed to this organization but I don't think the compensation matches the production anymore. I think that the team may look ahead to the future a little bit if they feel a good NT can be had in rounds 2-4!

:2c

Oviedo
02-25-2009, 03:02 PM
I think that if we can find, or think we an find a good NT in the draft that Big Snack may actually be a cap casualty! There really isn't much drop off in terms of production when Hoke steps in and plays for an injured Hampton, and if we can find a good quality future NT in the draft then I think we maybe go into next year with Hoke as the starter and the rookie backing him up until he becomes accustomed to the position and the system. Don't get me wrong, I appreciate what Casey has contributed to this organization but I don't think the compensation matches the production anymore. I think that the team may look ahead to the future a little bit if they feel a good NT can be had in rounds 2-4!

:2c

Unfortunately I think the only two true NTs in this year's draft are BJ Raji and Ron Brace and they will be gone in Rounds 1 and 2 respectively. The next best possibilities are: Terrence Taylor, Michigan or Sammie Lee Hill, Stilman and it may be unlikely they last until our late Round 3 pick because of the number of teams playing the 3-4 now.

papillon
02-25-2009, 03:24 PM
How about a DE that could potentially add the weight and move to NT? any of them out there in college football land?

Pappy

BURGH86STEEL
02-25-2009, 03:35 PM
How about a DE that could potentially add the weight and move to NT? any of them out there in college football land?

Pappy

I think the Steelers usually like to convert DE into LBs. I think that they like to make DT into DE in the 3-4. Some people want Olinemen and some want Dlinemen. It is going to be difficult to fill all the needs in one draft. They will have to be very lucky to have that kind of a draft.

papillon
02-25-2009, 05:26 PM
How about a DE that could potentially add the weight and move to NT? any of them out there in college football land?

Pappy

I think the Steelers usually like to convert DE into LBs. I think that they like to make DT into DE in the 3-4. Some people want Olinemen and some want Dlinemen. It is going to be difficult to fill all the needs in one draft. They will have to be very lucky to have that kind of a draft.

They like to convert college DEs into LBs that's true. I'm talking about 43 DT that has the size and strength to play like Aaron Smith and Kiesel, but, add the weight necessary to anchor the middle and command a double team 2 years from now.

Pappy

SteelerOfDeVille
02-25-2009, 05:52 PM
where is myron pryor rated? he looked good in what i saw of the drills and he was a very good player in the SEC.

could he be available in the 5th or 6th?
http://www.walterfootball.com/combine2009DT.php
Myron Pryor, Kentucky
Height: 6-0. Weight: 319.
Projected 40 Time: 5.05.
Combine 40 Time: .
Benchx225: . Vertical: .
Projected Round (2009): 5-6.

He seems a little short, but a very impressive 40 time for a 320 lb. man.
Pryor is a penetrator... I think he'd be miserable as a NT in a 3-4...

Eddie Spaghetti
02-25-2009, 06:08 PM
i might not like him either after what he did to the cards last fall.

personally a NT that can get upfield seems like a good thing to me.

if they could get him at the end of 5, place him on the PS for a year to develop, he might turn into a good player.

:2c

ramblinjim
02-25-2009, 06:31 PM
Gilbert would be a good choice at 2.64.

Some mid range to late round picks worth a serious look for DE:

Rulon Davis, 6'5", 275lbs, Cal
Zach Potter, 6'7" 280lbs, Nebraska
Kyle Moore, 6'5", 272lbs, USC
Rashon Harris, 6'4", 300lbs, Oregon
Khalif Mitchell, 6'5", 316lbs, East Carolina
Wil Johnson, 6'5", 285lbs, Michigan


I just don't watch enough college ball but Khalif Mitchell, 6'5", 316 is one big dude.

Chadman
02-25-2009, 09:51 PM
Raji is the most dominating of the DT/NT's in this draft, but he'll be long gone by the Steelers pick.

Next best NT on the boards is 'supposed' to be Ron Brace, and with the amount of teams going '3-4' this year, he'll be over-drafted & possibly go BEFORE #32 for the Steelers.

The same can be said for Terrence Taylor- he'll likely get OVER-DRAFTED in the 2nd round to a 3-4 team that NEEDS at NT.

One guy that doesn't seem to get mentioned much though is Texas' Roy Miller- a squat run stuffer that bulked up to around 310lbs. If the Steelers could grab Miller in round 3, he'd present good value.

SteelerOfDeVille
02-26-2009, 12:42 AM
i might not like him either after what he did to the cards last fall.

personally a NT that can get upfield seems like a good thing to me.

if they could get him at the end of 5, place him on the PS for a year to develop, he might turn into a good player.

:2c
The kid's from Louisville... I totally love him and in the Louisville game I thought, "this might be a 1st rounder"... I think he'll be a great DT in the NFL... if he was a hair taller, I'd say we should try him at DE... As it stands (IMHO) he's Kendrick Clancy... good NFL quality DT, but, not an NT.

An NT in the 3-4 is best if he can consume 2 blockers so the LBs are free to make plays... the 34 is designed for the LBs to be stars... You need a hampton clone. A big fatty that one man simply can't handle. A BJ Raji....

Oviedo
02-26-2009, 09:07 AM
Raji is the most dominating of the DT/NT's in this draft, but he'll be long gone by the Steelers pick.

Next best NT on the boards is 'supposed' to be Ron Brace, and with the amount of teams going '3-4' this year, he'll be over-drafted & possibly go BEFORE #32 for the Steelers.

The same can be said for Terrence Taylor- he'll likely get OVER-DRAFTED in the 2nd round to a 3-4 team that NEEDS at NT.

One guy that doesn't seem to get mentioned much though is Texas' Roy Miller- a squat run stuffer that bulked up to around 310lbs. If the Steelers could grab Miller in round 3, he'd present good value.

I agree about Miller. He could be the type of guy we have to look for but he isn't the equal of Hampton in his prime.

This discussion is one of the reason I have for the last couple of years peridically brought up the topic of switching to the 4-3. As we see the key players in our 3-4 defense move on can we restock the team with players of equal ability? The 3-4 creates significant challenge in doing this especially on the DL which is key to allowing the LBs to be effective.

JUST-PLAIN-NASTY
02-26-2009, 09:42 AM
We all know that a key to the 3-4 defense is having a very good NT to clog up the middle and absorb blockers. hampton was the best at this for a very long time but both his performance and motivation have to now be questioned. Hoke is a good back up but he is like 33 years old.

In this year's draft the two best NTs appear to be Raji and Brace out of BC. Raji is likely a Top 10-15 pick. The question is do we consider drafting Ron Brace at 1.32 given that with the proliferation of teams running the 3-4 he is unlikely to get past the early to middle Round 2.

I would support this because I think it fills what could become a serious need as early as this season or next. Anyone else like Terrence Taylor, Michigan or Sammie Hill, Stillman are definitely projects although Michigan players have come through for us on defense, e.g. Foote and Woodley.

I'm with ya Oviedo! I think a DT will be a pick in 1-4. I'm saying Hill. Hampton is in decline and the last year of his contract. Brace is a 2 down player and more like Hampton. Hill & Taylor could prove to be a 3 down player. It would be nice to have a NT that could push the center of the pocket on 1st & 2nd down playaction. However, I would not give up any on the rush defense side to get it. So if the Steelers think that Hill or Taylor can be as effective against the run as Brace with some coaching I would pass on Brace and target one of them. A couple of other names I like are Dorell Scott, Clemson & Fili Moala, USC in the 3rd. Some later 7th round project names I like are Roy Miller, Texas & Terrance Knighton, Temple.

Oviedo
02-26-2009, 10:04 AM
We all know that a key to the 3-4 defense is having a very good NT to clog up the middle and absorb blockers. hampton was the best at this for a very long time but both his performance and motivation have to now be questioned. Hoke is a good back up but he is like 33 years old.

In this year's draft the two best NTs appear to be Raji and Brace out of BC. Raji is likely a Top 10-15 pick. The question is do we consider drafting Ron Brace at 1.32 given that with the proliferation of teams running the 3-4 he is unlikely to get past the early to middle Round 2.

I would support this because I think it fills what could become a serious need as early as this season or next. Anyone else like Terrence Taylor, Michigan or Sammie Hill, Stillman are definitely projects although Michigan players have come through for us on defense, e.g. Foote and Woodley.

I'm with ya Oviedo! I think a DT will be a pick in 1-4. I'm saying Hill. Hampton is in decline and the last year of his contract. Brace is a 2 down player and more like Hampton. Hill & Taylor could prove to be a 3 down player. It would be nice to have a NT that could push the center of the pocket on 1st & 2nd down playaction. However, I would not give up any on the rush defense side to get it. So if the Steelers think that Hill or Taylor can be as effective against the run as Brace with some coaching I would pass on Brace and target one of them. A couple of other names I like are Dorell Scott, Clemson & Fili Moala, USC in the 3rd. Some later 7th round project names I like are Roy Miller, Texas & Terrance Knighton, Temple.

We are all looking at the same names and all seem to have the same opinion that Hampton is playing out his last season with the Steelers. I don't think that Maola is stout enough against the run to switch to NT. Dorell Scott may be. The fact however is getting "the next Casey Hampton" is going to become increasingly more difficult as more teams move to the 3-4. This is going to be a challenge that the Steelers have to confront head on and I do think it may force them to "overdraft" a player because of positional need. Such is the life of a champion who is always drafting in the bottom 10.

JUST-PLAIN-NASTY
02-26-2009, 10:21 AM
We all know that a key to the 3-4 defense is having a very good NT to clog up the middle and absorb blockers. hampton was the best at this for a very long time but both his performance and motivation have to now be questioned. Hoke is a good back up but he is like 33 years old.

In this year's draft the two best NTs appear to be Raji and Brace out of BC. Raji is likely a Top 10-15 pick. The question is do we consider drafting Ron Brace at 1.32 given that with the proliferation of teams running the 3-4 he is unlikely to get past the early to middle Round 2.

I would support this because I think it fills what could become a serious need as early as this season or next. Anyone else like Terrence Taylor, Michigan or Sammie Hill, Stillman are definitely projects although Michigan players have come through for us on defense, e.g. Foote and Woodley.

I'm with ya Oviedo! I think a DT will be a pick in 1-4. I'm saying Hill. Hampton is in decline and the last year of his contract. Brace is a 2 down player and more like Hampton. Hill & Taylor could prove to be a 3 down player. It would be nice to have a NT that could push the center of the pocket on 1st & 2nd down playaction. However, I would not give up any on the rush defense side to get it. So if the Steelers think that Hill or Taylor can be as effective against the run as Brace with some coaching I would pass on Brace and target one of them. A couple of other names I like are Dorell Scott, Clemson & Fili Moala, USC in the 3rd. Some later 7th round project names I like are Roy Miller, Texas & Terrance Knighton, Temple.

We are all looking at the same names and all seem to have the same opinion that Hampton is playing out his last season with the Steelers. I don't think that Maola is stout enough against the run to switch to NT. Dorell Scott may be. The fact however is getting "the next Casey Hampton" is going to become increasingly more difficult as more teams move to the 3-4. This is going to be a challenge that the Steelers have to confront head on and I do think it may force them to "overdraft" a player because of positional need. Such is the life of a champion who is always drafting in the bottom 10.

Because of that the Steelers might actually do a "Hartings" "Farrior" type of signing for the NT position next year. They would try to grab one this year through the middle rounds if they could without reaching. If not look hard at a young FA or high draft choice next year. It would be nice to have Gabe Watson but there is now way Hampton, Hoke, & Watson's salaries could be on this years books. I think he would fit well in this scheme and has very little miles on him. A guy like that next year might be a consideration if they miss in the draft.

ramblinjim
02-26-2009, 10:46 AM
Sorry guys, I just don't have the college expertise but aren't Brace and Raji on the same team? Could it be that both guys look like beasts because they line up next to each other but neither would be as good without the other?