Mack vs Unger

[stlrz d]

Break it down for me freaks. I don't follow college ball all that close. I keep hearing good things about both these guys.

Btw, what prompted this post is seeing Mayock having Unger rated first and Mack rated third, behind a center from Louisville (I missed the name). Anyway, he said Unger snaps the ball in shotgun and can still pull. Don't know how useful that would be (maybe for screen passes, an area where we seem to struggle?), but it's certainly impressive from an athletic standpoint.

[pfelix73]

Isn't it Wood from Louisville? Which one of those guys from the west coast was playing both G and C in college already. A utility man so to speak.

[stlrz d]

Isn't it Wood from Louisville? Which one of those guys from the west coast was playing both G and C in college already. A utility man so to speak.

Wood. Yes, that's the name. Funny, he's running right now!

[Jom112]

So both are good in pass protection. I think they can both handle the over-sized DT's that we have in our division. Both can play Center or Guard in the NFL. Some believe Unger can play Tackle because he did so at Oregon for two seasons, I personally don't see that happening. I don't think Unger can play Tackle because he has trouble against faster defenders, which is why even at guard he got blown by at the Senior Bowl on some plays.

The thing that separates the two in my mind though is that Mack sets a better seal in the running game, especially on screens or blocks that need to be made on the second level. Unger when he's on the move trying to make a block such as a screen is horrible. Anyone that watched Oregon's bowl game would have seen Unger on two consecutive plays whiff at blocking a LB in open space. The second time he missed so badly he fell on the ground and injured himself (This was the play that he tripped the LB when he was on the ground, which would have clearly been flagged in the NFL). Mack on the other hand does a good job getting his hands on quicker defenders and sealing the running lane...

[RuthlessBurgher]

Mayock is always a little bit different. He has Jason Smith as the top ranked OT over Eugene Monroe, Andre Smith, and Michael Oher. He has Duke Robinson behind Andy Levitre at guard. He has Darrius Heyward-Bey ahead of Percy Harvin at WR. He has Aaron Curry as his #1 overall prospect in the draft.

[WoodleyofTroy]

Reported as not only the deepest Center class in over 20 years, but also the most blue chip talent. Mack, Unger, and Wood are all "franchise" guys.

[stlrz d]

Thanks for the info guys. Keep it coming.

[Steel Life]

Hope this helps...

MAX UNGER - OC, Oregon (Height: 6-5 | Weight: 309 | 40-Time: 5.27)
Strengths:
Versatile...Excellent size with a big frame...decent strength and power...Pretty quick...Understands positioning and angles...Uses his hands well...Smart with terrific awareness...Good mobility and range...Superb balance...Is stout at the point of attack and can anchor...Gets a decent push in the run game...Competitive and plays to the whistle...Durable...Has a lot of experience against top competition.

Weaknesses:
Not a great athlete and has a soft middle...Doesn't always play with proper leverage...Is not very light on his feet...Struggles with speed off the edge...Allows defenders to get too close...Doesn't get the push he should...As a spread-offense OC, will need to work on conventional snapping...A Jack-of-All-Trades but master of none?

Notes:
Played left tackle his first two years with the Ducks then moved inside to center in 2007...Could realistically play center, guard or tackle at the next level...Good all-around player who is effective and both a run and pass blocker...Doesn't necessarily stand out in any way one area but his ability to play every position along the line is very enticing...Scouts wonder if he is a product of Oregon's gimmicky offense...Definitely has the ability to start in the NFL but should at the absolute least be a valuable backup...One of the premier interior line prospects available.

ALEX MACK - OC, Cal (Height: 6-4 | Weight: 316 | 40-Time: 5.10)
Strengths:
Ideal size and bulk...Extremely smart...Decent athlete with good agility and quickness...Physical and aggressive...Nasty with a killer instinct and always finishes plays...Great technician who understands angles and leverage...Outstanding awareness...Very strong and powerful and is a monster in the weight room...Above average mobility...Hard worker...Tough and durable... Has a lot of experience.

Weaknesses:
Has to watch his balance...A little stiff in the hips...Not real light on his feet...Shorter arms than you'd prefer...Can be too aggressive at times...Will get out of control ... Susceptible to being overwhelmed by massive defenders.

Notes:
Recipient of the prestigious Draddy Trophy as a senior, which is also known as the "Academic Heisman", and is given to college football's top scholar-athlete...Went to the state wrestling tournament as a heavyweight in high school...Four-time Academic All-Pac-10...Graduated with a 3.61 GPA and a bachelor's degree in legal studies...Three-time first-team All-Pac-10...Won the Morris Trophy as the best offensive lineman in the Pac-10, as voted by the conferences defensive lineman, two years in a row...The total package who has everything you look for in terms of both physical tools and intangibles...Rare pivot who is a legitimate first round talent.

[WoodleyofTroy]

Can't go wrong with either, but I will say Max Unger will be drafted before Alex Mack because of versatility. He'll be the Sam Baker of the draft. I wouldn't count out teams like the Eagles or Vikings rating him higher than a guy like Britton as well.

[Discipline of Steel]

Can't go wrong with either, but I will say Max Unger will be drafted before Alex Mack because of versatility. He'll be the Sam Baker of the draft. I wouldn't count out teams like the Eagles or Vikings rating him higher than a guy like Britton as well.

Thats fine with me. i vote Alex Mack for the Steelers.

[stlrz d]

I talked to scout Chris Landry on Fox Sports Radio tonight and he said he has them rated the same, but he gives a slight edge to Unger due to versatility.

[Lebsteel]

Can't go wrong with either, but I will say Max Unger will be drafted before Alex Mack because of versatility. He'll be the Sam Baker of the draft. I wouldn't count out teams like the Eagles or Vikings rating him higher than a guy like Britton as well.

Thats fine with me. i vote Alex Mack for the Steelers.

I would much rather have Mack. I'd much rather have Wood than Unger. He just doesn't seem strong enough to take on the big NTs in our division. Unger has average length arms (32"), and still could only put up 22 reps in the BP. He also only seems to have average speed, though his agility times were very good. Wood has much longer arms and still put up 8 more reps in the BP and ran a faster 40 time.

[steeler_george]

Jusy playing devil advocate....what if at 32 Mack, Unger, Beatty, Duke, Loadholt, were all available at number 32.

Would you trade back into the 35-40 in round 2 and select the one that was available or even yet an equally BPA available (C/G/T/WR/DE/CB/S)?

Even selecting one of the following listed above and still managing to pick up Wood, would you call that a great start of the draft?

[Oviedo]

Remember two words: Zone Blocking! From Wikipedia:


In a zone blocking scheme, fleet-footedness and athletic ability trump size as desirable qualities in offensive linemen. Coordination and technique matter more than muscle in implementing a successful scheme because defensive linemen are often double-teamed at the point of attack. Creating movement on the defensive line is more important than opening a specific hole in the defense.

Unger fits this to the tee. Look at his workout numbers in the 3-cone drill and 20 yard shuttle. He is among the best for OL.

Other OL that rank high in mobility at the combine are: Lyndon Murtha, Xavier Fulton, Jon Cooper, AQ Shipley, Joel Bell, Set Olsen and William Beatty.

[pfelix73]

After watching some of these guys at the combine, I'm starting to get on board with Unger. This guy has played OT, OG, and of course C. I heard this morning that he played 13 games during his freshman and sophomore years at LT.

IF Kemo isn't re-signed and he goes to another team, this just might be a sign that we'll seriously be looking for someone like Unger who is versatile early in the draft. I'd love to see Unger, Essex, Simmons, and Stapleton battle it out in camp for the 2 OG positions in 2009. 4 guys for 2 positions would make for a very good story in August. Unger could always move to Center down the road. Or he can just stay at G. I'm thinking LG with Simmons at RG.

Somewhere on one of the above posts, it was stated that a weakness of Unger's was that he is not athletic enough. That has to be incorrect as someone who has played/ started for a div. 1 footbal team for 4 years has to be athletic. I would think he's more athletic than most of the other OL at the combine. Kind of sounds like the way they talked about Sam Baker last year.....

[RuthlessBurgher]

To me, Mack seems like a franchise center that you can plug in and leave there for the next decade (sure, he may start out at guard as a rookie, but so did Dermontti Dawson). I wouldn't put him in the class of Hall of Famer Mike Webster or should-be Hall of Famer Dermontti Dawson at this point, but I think Mack could be like a Jeff Hartings type for us (if we got him when he was young instead of having him linger in Detroit for all those years first). Unger, on the other hand, strikes me as a great guy to have on your team, but does he really have a place where he truly fits? He strikes me as a better version of Trai Essex (that is not meant to be an insult; just the most obvious comparison I could think of right now)...he can fill in basically anywhere he is needed along the line, but may not dominant enough anywhere to excel in one specific starting role. If you are only dressing 7 o-lineman on game day, a guy with Unger's versatility is invaluable. But I want the better overall player who could potentially be a Pro Bowler at his position, and I think Mack is that guy. Just my 20 cents. :2c

[WoodleyofTroy]

This may be due to the fact that Mack wasn't working out, but the entire panel were talking about Unger being the best Center, noting that he has that look to be a dominant player at that position, with Guard and Tackle only being secondary options if need be (a player goes down and you need to shuffle the line). But Center is where he'll dominate, comparing him to Jeff Saturday.

Again, I'll be happy with either one. :tt2

[Oviedo]

After watching some of these guys at the combine, I'm starting to get on board with Unger. This guy has played OT, OG, and of course C. I heard this morning that he played 13 games during his freshman and sophomore years at LT.

IF Kemo isn't re-signed and he goes to another team, this just might be a sign that we'll seriously be looking for someone like Unger who is versatile early in the draft. I'd love to see Unger, Essex, Simmons, and Stapleton battle it out in camp for the 2 OG positions in 2009. 4 guys for 2 positions would make for a very good story in August. Unger could always move to Center down the road. Or he can just stay at G. I'm thinking LG with Simmons at RG.

Somewhere on one of the above posts, it was stated that a weakness of Unger's was that he is not athletic enough. That has to be incorrect as someone who has played/ started for a div. 1 footbal team for 4 years has to be athletic. I would think he's more athletic than most of the other OL at the combine. Kind of sounds like the way they talked about Sam Baker last year.....

If you look at the Combine results for OL, Unger is proving he is one of the most athletic OL there.

Again--don't forget the zone blocking aspect of this. Everyone looks at these players and projects them based on what we use to do or what they want us to do but we need to look at them with regards to what we actually are doing right now in terms of scheme on both sides of the ball.

The perfect example is Kemo. he was drafted under the old regime as a power, drive blocker. His struggles particiularly on pass protection this past season IMO are about the fact we are doing ZBS that puts a premium on technique and quickness which is where he is lacking. That is why I think they let him walk.

[Steel Life]

I'll stick with Mack...I want a potentially dominant center, not an average one.

[pfelix73]

That ZBS gets more attention than what it should be getting. Zone blocking is easy to learn and most linemen do it from pee wee football all the way through college.

[pfelix73]

Translation- I don't think Kemo has any problems zone blocking.

[steelernation77]

We don't run a ZBS. We do some zone-blocking which every team does.

Kemo struggles because he is an idiot and can't read stunts.

[pfelix73]

We don't utilize it all the time, but we do some zone blocking. Everyone does to a degree.

Kemo wasn't the weak link out there. It was Stapleton and Colon.

[Oviedo]

We don't utilize it all the time, but we do some zone blocking. Everyone does to a degree.

Kemo wasn't the weak link out there. It was Stapleton and Colon.

Sorry. I have to disagree. Kemo got blown up by run blizes when we tried to go short yardage on the left side. He was almost as weak as Stapleton.

I think MSM had stats on who gave up the most sacks and Kemo was #2.

[pfelix73]

1st-

MSM and many of us had disagreements all fall on those stats of his. So, I'm not going there on those. Again, many of those sacks were because of the QB and other reasons too. For example- poor pickups by the RB or FB- oh wait- we don't use the FB much.

2nd-

Maybe a few of those plays he got blown up on, but so does every lineman from time to time. I distinctly remember many plays when he'd pull to his right and open it up too. That's NOT zone blocking.

It just depends on which plays you are referring to.. I can remember one play early in the season when we picked up a 3rd and 1 and got 6 yards- because of Kemo. I also remember the screw ups too.

[Steel Life]

The problem with Kemo is his lack of recognition. He has all the physical attributes one could want, but he has a ten-cent head on on a million-dollar talent. There are players of less talent who play at a higher level because of their ability to recognize situations & process what to do - that's what separates players.

Bringing this back to the original topic...this is one of the reasons I favor Mack - being the Draddy winner shows he has the smarts to go along with his talent.

[buckeyehoppy]

To me, Mack seems like a franchise center that you can plug in and leave there for the next decade (sure, he may start out at guard as a rookie, but so did Dermontti Dawson). I wouldn't put him in the class of Hall of Famer Mike Webster or should-be Hall of Famer Dermontti Dawson at this point, but I think Mack could be like a Jeff Hartings type for us (if we got him when he was young instead of having him linger in Detroit for all those years first). Unger, on the other hand, strikes me as a great guy to have on your team, but does he really have a place where he truly fits? He strikes me as a better version of Trai Essex (that is not meant to be an insult; just the most obvious comparison I could think of right now)...he can fill in basically anywhere he is needed along the line, but may not dominant enough anywhere to excel in one specific starting role. If you are only dressing 7 o-lineman on game day, a guy with Unger's versatility is invaluable. But I want the better overall player who could potentially be a Pro Bowler at his position, and I think Mack is that guy. Just my 20 cents. :2c

If you are talking about a 1st Round pick, you want the guy who can't miss. That guy is Mack, in this case.

The scouting report on Unger even mentioned that he might not pan out to be much more than a versatile backup. Is that what the Steelers would want if they were going to take an interior OL that high? We can't afford to miss on a jack-of-all-trades player who may not have a genuine set spot. That would be like taking a utility infielder w/the 1st Round pick. That wouldn't fly w/most fans and would potentially mess w/team chemistry in the OL unit.

I think that between Mack, Robinson, Beatty and Britton, one of those guys will be available with the 32nd selection. And any of those guys has a good chance to be a starter from Day One on the Steeler OL. Mack and Robinson have a good shot at starting LG and Beatty and Britton will get a good look at RT, if selected.

[steeler_george]

To me, Mack seems like a franchise center that you can plug in and leave there for the next decade (sure, he may start out at guard as a rookie, but so did Dermontti Dawson). I wouldn't put him in the class of Hall of Famer Mike Webster or should-be Hall of Famer Dermontti Dawson at this point, but I think Mack could be like a Jeff Hartings type for us (if we got him when he was young instead of having him linger in Detroit for all those years first). Unger, on the other hand, strikes me as a great guy to have on your team, but does he really have a place where he truly fits? He strikes me as a better version of Trai Essex (that is not meant to be an insult; just the most obvious comparison I could think of right now)...he can fill in basically anywhere he is needed along the line, but may not dominant enough anywhere to excel in one specific starting role. If you are only dressing 7 o-lineman on game day, a guy with Unger's versatility is invaluable. But I want the better overall player who could potentially be a Pro Bowler at his position, and I think Mack is that guy. Just my 20 cents. :2c

If you are talking about a 1st Round pick, you want the guy who can't miss. That guy is Mack, in this case.

The scouting report on Unger even mentioned that he might not pan out to be much more than a versatile backup. Is that what the Steelers would want if they were going to take an interior OL that high? We can't afford to miss on a jack-of-all-trades player who may not have a genuine set spot. That would be like taking a utility infielder w/the 1st Round pick. That wouldn't fly w/most fans and would potentially mess w/team chemistry in the OL unit.

I think that between Mack, Robinson, Beatty and Britton, one of those guys will be available with the 32nd selection. And any of those guys has a good chance to be a starter from Day One on the Steeler OL. Mack and Robinson have a good shot at starting LG and Beatty and Britton will get a good look at RT, if selected.
:Agree

That is why I keep thinking if they are all there at 32 do you trade back, to get more value picks in the 2-3rd round. And then maneuvering up/down in those rounds (with the other draft picks) to select the players wanted in those rounds. (take for example: get a combo of Beatty and Woods or of DE Jackson/ CB A. Smith and Woods...get the idea. )

[pfelix73]

I don't know if any of them would have a chance to start next year, unless they could beat out one of the incumbents. A scenario I could see, however, would be Unger competing with Essex, Stapleton, Simmons for one of the G positions. No way, he'd beat out Hartwig. Or any of the other newbie rooks for that matter.

Unger's versatility would be a big advantage for him on this roster.

[RuthlessBurgher]

To me, Mack seems like a franchise center that you can plug in and leave there for the next decade (sure, he may start out at guard as a rookie, but so did Dermontti Dawson). I wouldn't put him in the class of Hall of Famer Mike Webster or should-be Hall of Famer Dermontti Dawson at this point, but I think Mack could be like a Jeff Hartings type for us (if we got him when he was young instead of having him linger in Detroit for all those years first). Unger, on the other hand, strikes me as a great guy to have on your team, but does he really have a place where he truly fits? He strikes me as a better version of Trai Essex (that is not meant to be an insult; just the most obvious comparison I could think of right now)...he can fill in basically anywhere he is needed along the line, but may not dominant enough anywhere to excel in one specific starting role. If you are only dressing 7 o-lineman on game day, a guy with Unger's versatility is invaluable. But I want the better overall player who could potentially be a Pro Bowler at his position, and I think Mack is that guy. Just my 20 cents. :2c

If you are talking about a 1st Round pick, you want the guy who can't miss. That guy is Mack, in this case.

The scouting report on Unger even mentioned that he might not pan out to be much more than a versatile backup. Is that what the Steelers would want if they were going to take an interior OL that high? We can't afford to miss on a jack-of-all-trades player who may not have a genuine set spot. That would be like taking a utility infielder w/the 1st Round pick. That wouldn't fly w/most fans and would potentially mess w/team chemistry in the OL unit.

I think that between Mack, Robinson, Beatty and Britton, one of those guys will be available with the 32nd selection. And any of those guys has a good chance to be a starter from Day One on the Steeler OL. Mack and Robinson have a good shot at starting LG and Beatty and Britton will get a good look at RT, if selected.
:Agree

That is why I keep thinking if they are all there at 32 do you trade back, to get more value picks in the 2-3rd round. And then maneuvering up/down in those rounds (with the other draft picks) to select the players wanted in those rounds. (take for example: get a combo of Beatty and Woods or of DE Jackson/ CB A. Smith and Woods...get the idea. )

I don't think there is any way that they they are all there at 32. One of them might be, perhaps two at the most. If anything, this is a year to trade up to assure yourself of getting the guy you truly want (like Troy and Santonio) instead of trading back to get more picks (when it looks like we will have 9 picks already).

[MeetJoeGreene]

We don't utilize it all the time, but we do some zone blocking. Everyone does to a degree.

Kemo wasn't the weak link out there. It was Stapleton and Colon.

Sorry. I have to disagree. Kemo got blown up by run blizes when we tried to go short yardage on the left side. He was almost as weak as Stapleton.

I think MSM had stats on who gave up the most sacks and Kemo was #2.

In memory of his days at ESPN, please use the Past Emmitt Imperfect verb tense in this situation and say Kemo got "blowed" up.

[RuthlessBurgher]

We don't utilize it all the time, but we do some zone blocking. Everyone does to a degree.

Kemo wasn't the weak link out there. It was Stapleton and Colon.

Sorry. I have to disagree. Kemo got blown up by run blizes when we tried to go short yardage on the left side. He was almost as weak as Stapleton.

I think MSM had stats on who gave up the most sacks and Kemo was #2.

In memory of his days at ESPN, please use the Past Emmitt Imperfect verb tense in this situation and say Kemo got "blowed" up.

And they called many "pelaties" on Willie Colon as well. :P