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View Full Version : Confirmed--Bruce Arians is Coming Back



BradshawsHairdresser
02-17-2009, 12:41 PM
:(
http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/09048/94 ... eelers.xml (http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/09048/949679-66.stm?cmpid=steelers.xml)



Told you so.

Mister Pittsburgh
02-17-2009, 12:43 PM
:HeadBanger Keep running it up the gut Brucey, keep running it up the gut! :HeadBanger

stlrz d
02-17-2009, 12:45 PM
:(
http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/09048/94 ... eelers.xml (http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/09048/949679-66.stm?cmpid=steelers.xml)



Told you so.


By returning to his job with the Steelers, Butler ensured that Tomlin's 2009 staff will look the same as it did in 2008 and '07. Unless something unforeseen happens, the staff of 14 assistants will return for a third season, plus their conditioning coach. No other coaches are known to be candidates elsewhere.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/1003/tayryn/smileys/praying.gif

MeetJoeGreene
02-17-2009, 12:48 PM
Buzzkill on an otherwise good day.

Mister Pittsburgh
02-17-2009, 12:49 PM
Actually, is this just Bouchette assuming they will remain intact? I don't see anyone from the Steelers quoted in there. Or is it just past the point where you would ditch your OC so it is safe to assume he will be back?

feltdizz
02-17-2009, 12:49 PM
We won a SB.. of course he is coming back... and with our schedule watch how good our O looks next year.

I bet we are top 10.

Look at the SB.. sure the red zone is suspect.. but I blame Spaeth and Miller for that as much as I blame Arians.. those 2 are terrible run blockers.

Mister Pittsburgh
02-17-2009, 12:50 PM
We won a SB.. of course he is coming back... and with our schedule watch how good our O looks next year.

I bet we are top 10.

Look at the SB.. sure the red zone is suspect.. but I blame Spaeth and Miller for that as much as I blame Arians.. those 2 are terrible run blockers.

I seem to remember Heath and Tuman catching a lot of touchdown passes in the past. Guess those plays got scrapped with Whizenhunts playbook. The only redzone play left was run it right, or left.

Djfan
02-17-2009, 12:55 PM
We won a SB.. of course he is coming back... and with our schedule watch how good our O looks next year.

I bet we are top 10.

Look at the SB.. sure the red zone is suspect.. but I blame Spaeth and Miller for that as much as I blame Arians.. those 2 are terrible run blockers.

I seem to remember Heath and Tuman catching a lot of touchdown passes in the past. Guess those plays got scrapped with Whizenhunts playbook. The only redzone play left was run it right, or left.

Don't try to make him look bad! He also tried to run up the middle.

feltdizz
02-17-2009, 12:58 PM
We won a SB.. of course he is coming back... and with our schedule watch how good our O looks next year.

I bet we are top 10.

Look at the SB.. sure the red zone is suspect.. but I blame Spaeth and Miller for that as much as I blame Arians.. those 2 are terrible run blockers.

I seem to remember Heath and Tuman catching a lot of touchdown passes in the past. Guess those plays got scrapped with Whizenhunts playbook. The only redzone play left was run it right, or left.

maybe.... but AZ sniffed out both bootlegs that we tried. I agree though... rarely have we seen our TE's dragging across the back of the endzone.

Mister Pittsburgh
02-17-2009, 01:01 PM
We won a SB.. of course he is coming back... and with our schedule watch how good our O looks next year.

I bet we are top 10.

Look at the SB.. sure the red zone is suspect.. but I blame Spaeth and Miller for that as much as I blame Arians.. those 2 are terrible run blockers.

I seem to remember Heath and Tuman catching a lot of touchdown passes in the past. Guess those plays got scrapped with Whizenhunts playbook. The only redzone play left was run it right, or left.

maybe.... but AZ sniffed out both bootlegs that we tried. I agree though... rarely have we seen our TE's dragging across the back of the endzone.

That is all I am saying. Throw in that one of our TE now is 6'7" tall, why wouldn't you try to isolate him with a CB and throw up a jump ball once in a while? Hell, does Sweed really need to know the offense to run the fade in the endzone? Dude is 6'6" tall. Think he could outjump a 6' tall CB? Arians becomes a retard as soon as we cross the opposing teams 20.

RuthlessBurgher
02-17-2009, 01:10 PM
[quote=feltdizz]We won a SB.. of course he is coming back... and with our schedule watch how good our O looks next year.

I bet we are top 10.

Look at the SB.. sure the red zone is suspect.. but I blame Spaeth and Miller for that as much as I blame Arians.. those 2 are terrible run blockers.

I seem to remember Heath and Tuman catching a lot of touchdown passes in the past. Guess those plays got scrapped with Whizenhunts playbook. The only redzone play left was run it right, or left.

maybe.... but AZ sniffed out both bootlegs that we tried. I agree though... rarely have we seen our TE's dragging across the back of the endzone.

That is all I am saying. Throw in that one of our TE now is 6'7" tall, why wouldn't you try to isolate him with a CB and throw up a jump ball once in a while? Hell, does Sweed really need to know the offense to run the fade in the endzone? Dude is 6'6" tall. Think he could outjump a 6' tall CB? Arians becomes a retard as soon as we cross the opposing teams 20.[/quote:7e27ed35]

Well, Limas is 6'4", not 6'6", but your premise still holds true. He should still be able to outleap CB's, most of which are 6' or under, on a fade route.

SanAntonioSteelerFan
02-17-2009, 01:13 PM
[quote=feltdizz]We won a SB.. of course he is coming back... and with our schedule watch how good our O looks next year.

I bet we are top 10.

Look at the SB.. sure the red zone is suspect.. but I blame Spaeth and Miller for that as much as I blame Arians.. those 2 are terrible run blockers.

I seem to remember Heath and Tuman catching a lot of touchdown passes in the past. Guess those plays got scrapped with Whizenhunts playbook. The only redzone play left was run it right, or left.

maybe.... but AZ sniffed out both bootlegs that we tried. I agree though... rarely have we seen our TE's dragging across the back of the endzone.

That is all I am saying. Throw in that one of our TE now is 6'7" tall, why wouldn't you try to isolate him with a CB and throw up a jump ball once in a while? Hell, does Sweed really need to know the offense to run the fade in the endzone? Dude is 6'6" tall. Think he could outjump a 6' tall CB? Arians becomes a retard as soon as we cross the opposing teams 20.[/quote:3ubpzq8i]

:Agree $$. His other "miscalls" could be easily overlooked if we could score more frequently in the red zone. Or from the 1 yard line for goodness sake, how many times this season did we not get 7 points from inside the 1 or 2 yard line?

phillyesq
02-17-2009, 01:16 PM
Actually, is this just Bouchette assuming they will remain intact? I don't see anyone from the Steelers quoted in there. Or is it just past the point where you would ditch your OC so it is safe to assume he will be back?

This is just Bouchette's assumption, improperly couched by the PG as a fact article.

I'm feeling very positive today, so I'm going to focus on Butler turning down the AZ defensive coordinator job to stay with the Steelers.

stlrz d
02-17-2009, 01:28 PM
Some guys "pucker up" in the red zone. Arians seems to be one of those guys.

Oviedo
02-17-2009, 01:42 PM
:(
http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/09048/94 ... eelers.xml (http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/09048/949679-66.stm?cmpid=steelers.xml)



Told you so.

Was thee ever a doubt. Improve the OL and watch everyone sing Arians' praises.

stlrz d
02-17-2009, 01:47 PM
:(
http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/09048/94 ... eelers.xml (http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/09048/949679-66.stm?cmpid=steelers.xml)



Told you so.

Was thee ever a doubt. Improve the OL and watch everyone sing Arians' praises.

If improving the O line improves his play calling, especially in the RZ, then I will be first in line to sing whatever he'd like me to sing.

I don't think it will though. I hope it does, but I have doubts.

Mister Pittsburgh
02-17-2009, 01:48 PM
:(
http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/09048/94 ... eelers.xml (http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/09048/949679-66.stm?cmpid=steelers.xml)



Told you so.

Was thee ever a doubt. Improve the OL and watch everyone sing Arians' praises.

Arians doesn't know how to use his personel. Bottom line. Of course a coach would look good even if he called runs up the middle every play if he had studs that could plow the way. Does that make him a good coach/coordinator?

I personally think a good coach/coordinator is a guy that can get the most out of his players by putting them in a position to suceed. Arians did not do that.

-Who in their right mind has a RB that anyone that watched any amount of film on him knows that he couldn't catch a cold buck naked in a snowstorm motion out wide like he is going out for a pass.

-Who in their right mind keeps their 6'7" pass catching TE stay in and block 99% of the time when the dude sucks at blocking. Spaeth wasn't drafted to stay in and block and he proved he had good hands when Heath went down.

-Who in thier right mind calls the same running play 50% of the time or more when you hit within the oppositions 5 yard line?

Arians blows.

Iron Shiek
02-17-2009, 02:03 PM
We will improve (hopefully) the line, people will get healthy and our offense will start clicking like a couple years ago. And then all of us Arians bashers will get the "I told you so's" and what not.

I don't doubt that improving the personnel, through upgrades or players coming back from injury, will make our offense and Arians look better.

But it still will not remove the stink from 2008 that he applied with some of his decision making.

I'm in his corner from now on but skeptically so. If he does the same stupid crap, I will be very worried about our team and Coach T's decision making regarding his staff. I have faith in Tomlin's continuity approach, so lets see what happens I guess.

grotonsteel
02-17-2009, 02:18 PM
:(
http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/09048/94 ... eelers.xml (http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/09048/949679-66.stm?cmpid=steelers.xml)



Told you so.

Was thee ever a doubt. Improve the OL and watch everyone sing Arians' praises.

:Agree ..

And atleast on paper the schedule is not as brutal as it was in 2008 which should help.

stlrz d
02-17-2009, 02:22 PM
:(
http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/09048/94 ... eelers.xml (http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/09048/949679-66.stm?cmpid=steelers.xml)



Told you so.

Was thee ever a doubt. Improve the OL and watch everyone sing Arians' praises.

Arians doesn't know how to use his personel. Bottom line. Of course a coach would look good even if he called runs up the middle every play if he had studs that could plow the way. Does that make him a good coach/coordinator?

I personally think a good coach/coordinator is a guy that can get the most out of his players by putting them in a position to suceed. Arians did not do that.

-Who in their right mind has a RB that anyone that watched any amount of film on him knows that he couldn't catch a cold buck naked in a snowstorm motion out wide like he is going out for a pass.

-Who in their right mind keeps their 6'7" pass catching TE stay in and block 99% of the time when the dude sucks at blocking. Spaeth wasn't drafted to stay in and block and he proved he had good hands when Heath went down.

-Who in thier right mind calls the same running play 50% of the time or more when you hit within the oppositions 5 yard line?

Arians blows.

I forgot to mention that. Another thing that needs to improve.

Steeler Shades
02-17-2009, 02:22 PM
"• Coach Mike Tomlin expects no changes in his coaching staff for the second straight season, unless someone leaves on their own.

“Games like that usually create opportunities for people,” Tomlin said. “I’m not naive. We’ll see how that shakes out.”"

Another off season where only the Steelers recognize Airens brilliance.8-)

Oviedo
02-17-2009, 02:37 PM
"• Coach Mike Tomlin expects no changes in his coaching staff for the second straight season, unless someone leaves on their own.

“Games like that usually create opportunities for people,” Tomlin said. “I’m not naive. We’ll see how that shakes out.”"

Another off season where only the Steelers recognize Airens brilliance.8-)

As opposed to the other 30 Offensive Coordinators who were not in the Super Bowl.

How many of the new coaching hires were offensive coordinators last year? I know of Josh McDaniel and Todd Healy and McDaniel was hired way before the Super Bowl. I think only one team waited for a coach in the Super Bowl and there is a previous connection there between Healy and Pioli.

feltdizz
02-17-2009, 03:13 PM
exactly... only a fool would fire Arians right now... dude has problems but hell, every other offense that people brag about looked like trash IMO when it was time to make things happen.

We will get better on O.. the schedule guarantees it.

Iron Shiek
02-17-2009, 03:16 PM
While I won't toot Arians' horn or anything, I'm in your (and Oviedo's) corner at this point.

Way too late to do something now.

flippy
02-17-2009, 03:25 PM
All these BA sucks threads make me long for the days of threads on why we should have drafted antonio bryant....

BA is a good OC.

We played all the top defenses in the league.

We had 4 new linemen. 2 of which didn't start the beginning of the season.

Our QB had a bad shoulder all season.

Our #1 RB was injured.

Our #2 RB went on IR.

Our best WR is old and slow.

Our 2nd best WR got caught with weed, so we know how hard he was working during the season.

And we've got a QB that no matter how many times he gets hit, he's still gonna hold the ball when the talent around him might get him killed.

For the most part, our WRs don't get separation unless we bunch them in 3s.

Bottom line, if you can't execute, any coordinator will look bad.

This same team performed under BA 2 years ago.

And it was his unit that carried us to the SuperBowl victory.

It was BA's unit that was clutch in the playoffs.

BA's a good coach.

And we'll continue to win with him.

Now, who's gonna be our next first round bust?

Mister Pittsburgh
02-17-2009, 03:25 PM
I am with you guys. Even though I don't agree with a lot of his decision making, he is the Steelers OC so I will pull for him. Maybe he learned a lot from this season.

SanAntonioSteelerFan
02-17-2009, 03:30 PM
All these BA sucks threads make me long for the days of threads on why we should have drafted antonio bryant....

BA is a good OC.

We played all the top defenses in the league.

We had 4 new linemen. 2 of which didn't start the beginning of the season.

Our QB had a bad shoulder all season.

Our #1 RB was injured.

Our #2 RB went on IR.

Our best WR is old and slow.

Our 2nd best WR got caught with weed, so we know how hard he was working during the season.

And we've got a QB that no matter how many times he gets hit, he's still gonna hold the ball when the talent around him might get him killed.

For the most part, our WRs don't get separation unless we bunch them in 3s.

Bottom line, if you can't execute, any coordinator will look bad.

This same team performed under BA 2 years ago.

And it was his unit that carried us to the SuperBowl victory.

It was BA's unit that was clutch in the playoffs.

BA's a good coach.

And we'll continue to win with him.

Now, who's gonna be our next first round bust?

Mr. Flippy sir - Would you say what you think about the following two things:

1) Why can't we score well (to be charitable) in the Red Zone, or even the 1 or 2 yard line? Has the play calling made good use of the available personnel?

2) Do you think BA tends to run the RB up the middle, or otherwise unimaginatively too often?

3) Do you think BA improved significantly in his play calling over the course of this past season?


Thanks for your thoughts!

Steeler Shades
02-17-2009, 03:48 PM
Another off season where only the Steelers recognize Airens brilliance.8-)As opposed to the other 30 Offensive Coordinators who were not in the Super Bowl.
I guess if you are in the SB then you must be good? Do you think Sepulveda will be signed by another team? After all Berger was in the SB and I'm sure that we can't do better than that for a punter. 8)

Steeler Shades
02-17-2009, 03:54 PM
We played all the top defenses in the league.

We had 4 new linemen. 2 of which didn't start the beginning of the season.

Our QB had a bad shoulder all season.

Our #1 RB was injured.

Our #2 RB went on IR.

Our best WR is old and slow.

Our 2nd best WR got caught with weed, so we know how hard he was working during the season.

And we've got a QB that no matter how many times he gets hit, he's still gonna hold the ball when the talent around him might get him killed.

For the most part, our WRs don't get separation unless we bunch them in 3s.

Bottom line, if you can't execute, any coordinator will look bad.
Wow.....our offense really sucked. No wonder we were 22nd out of 33 teams in the league. I sure hope we are not paying this unit more than the # 1 defense in the league. Who was in charge of this mess.....Airens or Tomlin? 8)

flippy
02-17-2009, 04:00 PM
Mr. Flippy sir - Would you say what you think about the following two things:

1) Why can't we score well (to be charitable) in the Red Zone, or even the 1 or 2 yard line? Has the play calling made good use of the available personnel?

2) Do you think BA tends to run the RB up the middle, or otherwise unimaginatively too often?

3) Do you think BA improved significantly in his play calling over the course of this past season?


Thanks for your thoughts!

1. Our personnel can't block. Every team needs to be able to line up in a jumbo package and execute. We don't have the players upfront and we can't. But even if you can't run, you have to call runs in those situations to keep the defense honest.

It might also help to keep FWP in the game instead of Gary Russel. Especially when he's running well during the series. I'd rather see us have a back that can go all 3 downs in any situation. We haven't seen versatility from our backs this season either.

2. You've gotta run between the tackles in the NFL. It sets up play action.

Remember we played all good defenses this year. And good defenses can take away the run.

3. Play calling in the SuperBowl was great. We set the tone early in that game. A different formation for every play. And Ben did score a TD on that opening drive. Our offense looked a lot better overall in the playoffs.

Bruce creates a lot of mismatches with his formations. He uses a lot of different 3 WR bunches and 2-3 TE sets you don't typically see. He also mixes formations on the same series which can keep a D off balance.


Bottom line, the toughest schedule and worst OLine is gonna hurt execution. And BA is the scapegoat for this bad execution.

BA wasn't so bad 2 years ago.

He won't be so bad this upcoming season.

RuthlessBurgher
02-17-2009, 04:07 PM
Mr. Flippy sir - Would you say what you think about the following two things:

1) Why can't we score well (to be charitable) in the Red Zone, or even the 1 or 2 yard line? Has the play calling made good use of the available personnel?

2) Do you think BA tends to run the RB up the middle, or otherwise unimaginatively too often?

3) Do you think BA improved significantly in his play calling over the course of this past season?


Thanks for your thoughts!

1. Our personnel can't block. Every team needs to be able to line up in a jumbo package and execute. We don't have the players upfront and we can't. But even if you can't run, you have to call runs in those situations to keep the defense honest.

It might also help to keep FWP in the game instead of Gary Russel. Especially when he's running well during the series. I'd rather see us have a back that can go all 3 downs in any situation. We haven't seen versatility from our backs this season either.

2. You've gotta run between the tackles in the NFL. It sets up play action.

Remember we played all good defenses this year. And good defenses can take away the run.

3. Play calling in the SuperBowl was great. We set the tone early in that game. A different formation for every play. And Ben did score a TD on that opening drive. Our offense looked a lot better overall in the playoffs.

Bruce creates a lot of mismatches with his formations. He uses a lot of different 3 WR bunches and 2-3 TE sets you don't typically see. He also mixes formations on the same series which can keep a D off balance.


Bottom line, the toughest schedule and worst OLine is gonna hurt execution. And BA is the scapegoat for this bad execution.

BA wasn't so bad 2 years ago.

He won't be so bad this upcoming season.

If you acknowledge that our players can't block, why are you advocating using free agency and the draft to get a playmaking WR or stocking up our defense with DE's and CB's instead of drafting o-lineman (or keeping Starks?). The line is either a problem, or it isn't. And since pretty much everybody is acknowledging that it is our main problem, how does ignoring it in favor of other areas that are not major problems make things better?

BURGH86STEEL
02-17-2009, 05:23 PM
[quote=feltdizz]We won a SB.. of course he is coming back... and with our schedule watch how good our O looks next year.

I bet we are top 10.

Look at the SB.. sure the red zone is suspect.. but I blame Spaeth and Miller for that as much as I blame Arians.. those 2 are terrible run blockers.

I seem to remember Heath and Tuman catching a lot of touchdown passes in the past. Guess those plays got scrapped with Whizenhunts playbook. The only redzone play left was run it right, or left.

maybe.... but AZ sniffed out both bootlegs that we tried. I agree though... rarely have we seen our TE's dragging across the back of the endzone.

That is all I am saying. Throw in that one of our TE now is 6'7" tall, why wouldn't you try to isolate him with a CB and throw up a jump ball once in a while? Hell, does Sweed really need to know the offense to run the fade in the endzone? Dude is 6'6" tall. Think he could outjump a 6' tall CB? Arians becomes a retard as soon as we cross the opposing teams 20.[/quote:2uyfnzfa]

Do you think Ben can put the ball in the right spot on a fade? I am not so sure that he can.

RuthlessBurgher
02-17-2009, 05:28 PM
[quote=feltdizz]We won a SB.. of course he is coming back... and with our schedule watch how good our O looks next year.

I bet we are top 10.

Look at the SB.. sure the red zone is suspect.. but I blame Spaeth and Miller for that as much as I blame Arians.. those 2 are terrible run blockers.

I seem to remember Heath and Tuman catching a lot of touchdown passes in the past. Guess those plays got scrapped with Whizenhunts playbook. The only redzone play left was run it right, or left.

maybe.... but AZ sniffed out both bootlegs that we tried. I agree though... rarely have we seen our TE's dragging across the back of the endzone.

That is all I am saying. Throw in that one of our TE now is 6'7" tall, why wouldn't you try to isolate him with a CB and throw up a jump ball once in a while? Hell, does Sweed really need to know the offense to run the fade in the endzone? Dude is 6'6" tall. Think he could outjump a 6' tall CB? Arians becomes a retard as soon as we cross the opposing teams 20.

Do you think Ben can put the ball in the right spot on a fade? I am not so sure that he can.[/quote:2sc9zici]

He put it in the only possible spot where Santonio could get it and the 3 Cardinals around him could not. Granted, he wasn't lofting up a fade there, but still, I trust our QB at this point.

Flasteel
02-17-2009, 05:29 PM
I'm not trying to be a dick, but all of you pro-Arians folks just don't get it. I have never argued that our offense would fare better if we executed better, especially along the line. The very few of you who continue to sing his praises or whip out the "I told you so's" keep on pointing to player execution or the ease of the upcoming schedule to support your contention that he will look like some kind of offensive genius in the collective eyes of the Steeler Nation. While I wouldn't take it that far, I agree that with the personnel we have (especially at the "skill" positions) next year could look a whole lot better for us offensively, if those things come to fruition.

But what all of you look past is this guy's complete failure in adjusting to defenses, particularly the pass rush. In my book it was an unforgivable sin which revealed a great deal of insight into the abject lack of tools in his tool box. He did next to nothing to counter the unbelievable heat our franchise Quarterback took over the past two years...things that any high school coach could employ such as screens, draws, roll-outs, three-step drops, quick passes, and a more liberal use of the no-huddle. Sure he incorporated some of these tactics to a very small degree, but he waited far too late in the game, which showed his unwillingness to adapt to his personnel. He flat-out decried the use of the short passing game and three-step drop last season (2007) and said he was against implementing it. It took him until midway through this past season to finally start using it and what do you know...it worked.

The other other unbelievably ridiculous aspect of his coaching is how we attack opponents with our running game. Our best blockers are outside at tackle, we have a starting back whose nickname is "Fast", and yet 90% of the running plays are banged between the tackles. There is almost no concerted effort to get the ball on the edge and we just keep plugging away behind an over-matched interior line for 2 yards a pop...just friggin' brilliant.

Point to the blocking or execution all you want, but the bottom line is we didn't adjust and we weren't creative in how we ran the ball.

Arians has some good qualities to him but overall the guy leaves a lot to be desired as an OC.

I fully agree that it's too late for change and the bottom line is that we just won a 6th Lombardi. None of it however mitigates his ineffectiveness and if you can't see room for improvement with that coaching position, then you are blind to the fundementals of football.

Don't come back with the "I guess Mike Tomlin must be blind too" comments because there are obviously other factors at play here such as continuity, sticking with your hires, and the positives BA brings to the table which can serve as the basis for growth...yada, yada, yada.

As other have stated, he wears the Black-n-Gold, so I will be pulling for him to improve..I just don't believe we will see it.

Starlifter
02-17-2009, 05:36 PM
not a big shock, the only way he was going would be if Tomlin fired him. that would be pretty gutsy to fire the OC of a SB champion. So we won't fire him but who in the league is interested in promoting or interviewing the OC who had the 22nd ranked offense?

SanAntonioSteelerFan
02-17-2009, 05:45 PM
Mr. Flippy sir - Would you say what you think about the following two things:

1) Why can't we score well (to be charitable) in the Red Zone, or even the 1 or 2 yard line? Has the play calling made good use of the available personnel?

2) Do you think BA tends to run the RB up the middle, or otherwise unimaginatively too often?

3) Do you think BA improved significantly in his play calling over the course of this past season?


Thanks for your thoughts!

1. Our personnel can't block. Every team needs to be able to line up in a jumbo package and execute. We don't have the players upfront and we can't. But even if you can't run, you have to call runs in those situations to keep the defense honest.

It might also help to keep FWP in the game instead of Gary Russel. Especially when he's running well during the series. I'd rather see us have a back that can go all 3 downs in any situation. We haven't seen versatility from our backs this season either.

2. You've gotta run between the tackles in the NFL. It sets up play action.

Remember we played all good defenses this year. And good defenses can take away the run.

3. Play calling in the SuperBowl was great. We set the tone early in that game. A different formation for every play. And Ben did score a TD on that opening drive. Our offense looked a lot better overall in the playoffs.

Bruce creates a lot of mismatches with his formations. He uses a lot of different 3 WR bunches and 2-3 TE sets you don't typically see. He also mixes formations on the same series which can keep a D off balance.


Bottom line, the toughest schedule and worst OLine is gonna hurt execution. And BA is the scapegoat for this bad execution.

BA wasn't so bad 2 years ago.

He won't be so bad this upcoming season.

Flippy - I hope you can tell from the tone of my messages that I respect your viewpoint, and that my questions are just to get your perspective on things.

I've got a follow up or two from your answers - I'd love to hear your thoughts some more!

Thanks -

Re: #2 - it might be said that running between the tackles can set up play action only if there is actually any success in running between the tackles. If it's all 3 yards or less, or negative yards, the play action won't work, because defensive backfields won't bite - they know their D line has their backs covered, and they can just sort of float around back there. How would you answer this sort of thinking?

Re: #3 - I think the playcalling in the Superbowl was great for much of the 1st quarter - imaginative, unusual for BA, and really successful. But for the rest of the game, until the last drive maybe, I agree with some of the posters who said it was like Martyball or Turtleball. It seemed to me that he stopped calling the successful formations before the defense showed they knew how to stop them. IMO, it almost cost us the game. Do you think the play calling was great for the whole Superbowl? If not, and you think there was a little bit of Turtle after the 1st quarter, what do you think was going on there?

BTW - I agree, I don't think BA will be as bad this coming season.

Thanks!

BURGH86STEEL
02-17-2009, 05:47 PM
[quote=feltdizz]We won a SB.. of course he is coming back... and with our schedule watch how good our O looks next year.

I bet we are top 10.

Look at the SB.. sure the red zone is suspect.. but I blame Spaeth and Miller for that as much as I blame Arians.. those 2 are terrible run blockers.

I seem to remember Heath and Tuman catching a lot of touchdown passes in the past. Guess those plays got scrapped with Whizenhunts playbook. The only redzone play left was run it right, or left.

maybe.... but AZ sniffed out both bootlegs that we tried. I agree though... rarely have we seen our TE's dragging across the back of the endzone.

That is all I am saying. Throw in that one of our TE now is 6'7" tall, why wouldn't you try to isolate him with a CB and throw up a jump ball once in a while? Hell, does Sweed really need to know the offense to run the fade in the endzone? Dude is 6'6" tall. Think he could outjump a 6' tall CB? Arians becomes a retard as soon as we cross the opposing teams 20.

:Agree $$. His other "miscalls" could be easily overlooked if we could score more frequently in the red zone. Or from the 1 yard line for goodness sake, how many times this season did we not get 7 points from inside the 1 or 2 yard line?[/quote:27273dx5]

Are you sure they are "miscalls" or was the problem execution? Ever coach calls plays that do not work. Sometimes, the other teams execute better. I tend to lead on the side of execution. Steelers were 15th in the league in TD percentage in the red zone. That was better than the Giants and Patriots. Those teams made in down in the red zone more often but had to kick more FGs. Is the play calling suspect with those two teams in the red zone? Look, it is an area the offense can improve with a better Oline. Some of those numbers have to do with the quality of defenses the team faced this year.
There are multiple reasons why they failed to convert in the red zone.

We need to be more open minded about these things instead of placing sole blame on the play calling. People are so hell bent on trashing Arians they fail to take other factors into consideration.

flippy
02-17-2009, 06:00 PM
Mr. Flippy sir - Would you say what you think about the following two things:

1) Why can't we score well (to be charitable) in the Red Zone, or even the 1 or 2 yard line? Has the play calling made good use of the available personnel?

2) Do you think BA tends to run the RB up the middle, or otherwise unimaginatively too often?

3) Do you think BA improved significantly in his play calling over the course of this past season?


Thanks for your thoughts!

1. Our personnel can't block. Every team needs to be able to line up in a jumbo package and execute. We don't have the players upfront and we can't. But even if you can't run, you have to call runs in those situations to keep the defense honest.

It might also help to keep FWP in the game instead of Gary Russel. Especially when he's running well during the series. I'd rather see us have a back that can go all 3 downs in any situation. We haven't seen versatility from our backs this season either.

2. You've gotta run between the tackles in the NFL. It sets up play action.

Remember we played all good defenses this year. And good defenses can take away the run.

3. Play calling in the SuperBowl was great. We set the tone early in that game. A different formation for every play. And Ben did score a TD on that opening drive. Our offense looked a lot better overall in the playoffs.

Bruce creates a lot of mismatches with his formations. He uses a lot of different 3 WR bunches and 2-3 TE sets you don't typically see. He also mixes formations on the same series which can keep a D off balance.


Bottom line, the toughest schedule and worst OLine is gonna hurt execution. And BA is the scapegoat for this bad execution.

BA wasn't so bad 2 years ago.

He won't be so bad this upcoming season.

If you acknowledge that our players can't block, why are you advocating using free agency and the draft to get a playmaking WR or stocking up our defense with DE's and CB's instead of drafting o-lineman (or keeping Starks?). The line is either a problem, or it isn't. And since pretty much everybody is acknowledging that it is our main problem, how does ignoring it in favor of other areas that are not major problems make things better?

Good olineman can be found later in the draft. And I think this year is deep.

So while I want us to get better, I'm just not an advocate of using big FA $s or early draft picks on olineman.

Our Dline is getting older and we need some young studs on that unit.

A shutdown corner would only help our pass rush become even better.

And our WRs not being able to get separation of the LOS is a major issue imho. Get Ben a weapon. Most great QBs have a stud WR. Ben doesn't. Someone who can get open quickly and requires a true double team will help slow down a pass rush.

And then finally, the Oline needs continuity. And any Oline will look bad if your QB plays on the edge of getting sacked when he's at the top of his game.

flippy
02-17-2009, 06:01 PM
Mr. Flippy sir - Would you say what you think about the following two things:

1) Why can't we score well (to be charitable) in the Red Zone, or even the 1 or 2 yard line? Has the play calling made good use of the available personnel?

2) Do you think BA tends to run the RB up the middle, or otherwise unimaginatively too often?

3) Do you think BA improved significantly in his play calling over the course of this past season?


Thanks for your thoughts!

1. Our personnel can't block. Every team needs to be able to line up in a jumbo package and execute. We don't have the players upfront and we can't. But even if you can't run, you have to call runs in those situations to keep the defense honest.

It might also help to keep FWP in the game instead of Gary Russel. Especially when he's running well during the series. I'd rather see us have a back that can go all 3 downs in any situation. We haven't seen versatility from our backs this season either.

2. You've gotta run between the tackles in the NFL. It sets up play action.

Remember we played all good defenses this year. And good defenses can take away the run.

3. Play calling in the SuperBowl was great. We set the tone early in that game. A different formation for every play. And Ben did score a TD on that opening drive. Our offense looked a lot better overall in the playoffs.

Bruce creates a lot of mismatches with his formations. He uses a lot of different 3 WR bunches and 2-3 TE sets you don't typically see. He also mixes formations on the same series which can keep a D off balance.


Bottom line, the toughest schedule and worst OLine is gonna hurt execution. And BA is the scapegoat for this bad execution.

BA wasn't so bad 2 years ago.

He won't be so bad this upcoming season.

If you acknowledge that our players can't block, why are you advocating using free agency and the draft to get a playmaking WR or stocking up our defense with DE's and CB's instead of drafting o-lineman (or keeping Starks?). The line is either a problem, or it isn't. And since pretty much everybody is acknowledging that it is our main problem, how does ignoring it in favor of other areas that are not major problems make things better?

And remember last year everyone said we needed to upgrade the oline to have any chance of winning. We didn't and we won.

Lonbull
02-17-2009, 06:23 PM
In general I agree with Flippinburghers -

I know the following:

Ben Roethlisberger had his best season (2007) with Arians, not Whisenhunt.

Ben Roethlisberger took as many sacks this season (46) as he did in 2006 under Whisenhunt.

Seeing how in both of the above cases we had a different Head Coach and Offensive Co. I think it's safe to assume that it's more about the talent on the field.

At the end of this season we only had 1 starter on the Offenisive Line from the previous season - and that was Willie Colon. We also lost our 1st and 2nd String Running Backs for a large chunk of the season.

For many of you who complain about Bruce Arians it seems you give very little credence to how handcuffed an OC can be when he loses significant talent (like two starting Offensive Lineman) - your approach is to simply be able to "use" the tools you've got. So are you telling me that if Ben Roethlisberger had been injured last season that it would have been Bruce Arians fault if we didn't win go to and win the Super Bowl?

In regards to the playcalling inside the 10 -

The play calling (as I've counted it) inside the 10 yard line ended up being 55% run, 45% pass - there were 4 Quarterback Scrambles, which would alter the figures slightly.

I realize that many people think Arians only runs the ball (or puckers up) inside the 10, but the numbers tell a different story.

I'm not saying that I wouldn't like to see improvement by Arians in some of the playcalling, but you have to wonder what he was able to call effectively, against some of the best teams in the league, when the injuries started mounting up.

L.B.

flippy
02-17-2009, 06:29 PM
Mr. Flippy sir - Would you say what you think about the following two things:

1) Why can't we score well (to be charitable) in the Red Zone, or even the 1 or 2 yard line? Has the play calling made good use of the available personnel?

2) Do you think BA tends to run the RB up the middle, or otherwise unimaginatively too often?

3) Do you think BA improved significantly in his play calling over the course of this past season?


Thanks for your thoughts!

1. Our personnel can't block. Every team needs to be able to line up in a jumbo package and execute. We don't have the players upfront and we can't. But even if you can't run, you have to call runs in those situations to keep the defense honest.

It might also help to keep FWP in the game instead of Gary Russel. Especially when he's running well during the series. I'd rather see us have a back that can go all 3 downs in any situation. We haven't seen versatility from our backs this season either.

2. You've gotta run between the tackles in the NFL. It sets up play action.

Remember we played all good defenses this year. And good defenses can take away the run.

3. Play calling in the SuperBowl was great. We set the tone early in that game. A different formation for every play. And Ben did score a TD on that opening drive. Our offense looked a lot better overall in the playoffs.

Bruce creates a lot of mismatches with his formations. He uses a lot of different 3 WR bunches and 2-3 TE sets you don't typically see. He also mixes formations on the same series which can keep a D off balance.


Bottom line, the toughest schedule and worst OLine is gonna hurt execution. And BA is the scapegoat for this bad execution.

BA wasn't so bad 2 years ago.

He won't be so bad this upcoming season.

Flippy - I hope you can tell from the tone of my messages that I respect your viewpoint, and that my questions are just to get your perspective on things.

I've got a follow up or two from your answers - I'd love to hear your thoughts some more!

Thanks -

Re: #2 - it might be said that running between the tackles can set up play action only if there is actually any success in running between the tackles. If it's all 3 yards or less, or negative yards, the play action won't work, because defensive backfields won't bite - they know their D line has their backs covered, and they can just sort of float around back there. How would you answer this sort of thinking?

Re: #3 - I think the playcalling in the Superbowl was great for much of the 1st quarter - imaginative, unusual for BA, and really successful. But for the rest of the game, until the last drive maybe, I agree with some of the posters who said it was like Martyball or Turtleball. It seemed to me that he stopped calling the successful formations before the defense showed they knew how to stop them. IMO, it almost cost us the game. Do you think the play calling was great for the whole Superbowl? If not, and you think there was a little bit of Turtle after the 1st quarter, what do you think was going on there?

BTW - I agree, I don't think BA will be as bad this coming season.

Thanks!

#2 - We've just gotta execute on running between the tackles. Our WRs need time to get open down field, so PA has to work for our offense to click. It suits Ben and the WRs. The better a team runs, the more effective PA is. You're right there. But ineffective as it might be, you still have to run between the tackles. Besides a lot of great runs start between the tackles and bounce outside. Bouncing out runs unexpectedly is what makes Willie really great. It's never been the designed runs to the outside. It's bouncing out when everyone's defending the middle of the field.

#3 - We had 2 drives in the 2nd quarter. A penalty put us in a bad 3rd and long in the 1st drive and then their was the INT during the other. We had 1 long drive in the 3rd quarter where we kicked a FG and went up 20-7. The first turtle drive would have been our first drive in the 4th when we were up 13 pts. I have no problem trying to take time off the clock there. We were also at midfield, so even if we turtled unsuccessfully, we'd surely be able to pin AZ deep which we ended up doing. Our defense gave up a quick 80+ yard drive in the 4th quarter to allow AZ back in the game. Our next drive in the 4th was a quick 3 and out due to the sack that put us in 3rd and long. Then we had the safety on our next series. Our O looked decent up until the 4th Q. And luckily we had that final drive in us.

It was more disturbing to see our D fall apart at the end.

BURGH86STEEL
02-18-2009, 07:18 AM
In general I agree with Flippinburghers -

I know the following:

Ben Roethlisberger had his best season (2007) with Arians, not Whisenhunt.

Ben Roethlisberger took as many sacks this season (46) as he did in 2006 under Whisenhunt.

Seeing how in both of the above cases we had a different Head Coach and Offensive Co. I think it's safe to assume that it's more about the talent on the field.

At the end of this season we only had 1 starter on the Offenisive Line from the previous season - and that was Willie Colon. We also lost our 1st and 2nd String Running Backs for a large chunk of the season.

For many of you who complain about Bruce Arians it seems you give very little credence to how handcuffed an OC can be when he loses significant talent (like two starting Offensive Lineman) - your approach is to simply be able to "use" the tools you've got. So are you telling me that if Ben Roethlisberger had been injured last season that it would have been Bruce Arians fault if we didn't win go to and win the Super Bowl?

In regards to the playcalling inside the 10 -

The play calling (as I've counted it) inside the 10 yard line ended up being 55% run, 45% pass - there were 4 Quarterback Scrambles, which would alter the figures slightly.

I realize that many people think Arians only runs the ball (or puckers up) inside the 10, but the numbers tell a different story.

I'm not saying that I wouldn't like to see improvement by Arians in some of the playcalling, but you have to wonder what he was able to call effectively, against some of the best teams in the league, when the injuries started mounting up.

L.B.

I can agree with your logic. People simply want to trash Arians without taking all the other factors into consideration.

Oviedo
02-18-2009, 09:34 AM
In general I agree with Flippinburghers -

I know the following:

Ben Roethlisberger had his best season (2007) with Arians, not Whisenhunt.

Ben Roethlisberger took as many sacks this season (46) as he did in 2006 under Whisenhunt.

Seeing how in both of the above cases we had a different Head Coach and Offensive Co. I think it's safe to assume that it's more about the talent on the field.

At the end of this season we only had 1 starter on the Offenisive Line from the previous season - and that was Willie Colon. We also lost our 1st and 2nd String Running Backs for a large chunk of the season.

For many of you who complain about Bruce Arians it seems you give very little credence to how handcuffed an OC can be when he loses significant talent (like two starting Offensive Lineman) - your approach is to simply be able to "use" the tools you've got. So are you telling me that if Ben Roethlisberger had been injured last season that it would have been Bruce Arians fault if we didn't win go to and win the Super Bowl?

In regards to the playcalling inside the 10 -

The play calling (as I've counted it) inside the 10 yard line ended up being 55% run, 45% pass - there were 4 Quarterback Scrambles, which would alter the figures slightly.

I realize that many people think Arians only runs the ball (or puckers up) inside the 10, but the numbers tell a different story.

I'm not saying that I wouldn't like to see improvement by Arians in some of the playcalling, but you have to wonder what he was able to call effectively, against some of the best teams in the league, when the injuries started mounting up.

L.B.

I can agree with your logic. People simply want to trash Arians without taking all the other factors into consideration.

:Agree with both of you

JDSteeler
02-19-2009, 02:52 AM
We won a SB.. of course he is coming back... and with our schedule watch how good our O looks next year.

I bet we are top 10.

Look at the SB.. sure the red zone is suspect.. but I blame Spaeth and Miller for that as much as I blame Arians.. those 2 are terrible run blockers.

I seem to remember Heath and Tuman catching a lot of touchdown passes in the past. Guess those plays got scrapped with Whizenhunts playbook. The only redzone play left was run it right, or left.

Don't try to make him look bad! He also tried to run up the middle.

That is absolutely the funniest two-liner I've heard in awhile!!!

Nice job, DJ!!!!!

careydavis
02-20-2009, 03:32 AM
Good olineman can be found later in the draft. And I think this year is deep.

.

Here is a little History for you. Last Time the Steelers had a real good offensive line, their lineman were mostly all #1's and #2 draft picks.

AngryAsian
02-20-2009, 04:49 AM
Good olineman can be found later in the draft. And I think this year is deep.

.

Here is a little History for you. Last Time the Steelers had a real good offensive line, their lineman were mostly all #1's and #2 draft picks.

The Steelers have only selected OL twice in the first round that yielded a Pro Bowl calibre lineman. Their only 2nd round selection to address the offensive line that yielded anything close to greatness was in 1988 when they chose future HOF Dirt Dawson. All other noteworthy linemen were later round selections. If you are talking "history"... this team has had a history of selecting their linemen in the later rounds and have had great success in doing so, thus the term "Smash Mouth Football."

flippy
02-20-2009, 08:39 AM
Good olineman can be found later in the draft. And I think this year is deep.

.

Here is a little History for you. Last Time the Steelers had a real good offensive line, their lineman were mostly all #1's and #2 draft picks.

Thanks for the history lesson.

How many SuperBowls did that line real good offensive line win for us? I assume you're speaking of 2000/1 right before Wayne Gandy left.

We just won a SuperBowl with a 3rd, 6th, 6th, undrafted, and a 4th round pick.

And if you look back to the 70s and SuperBowl XIV as an example, the draft positions of our starting oline then was 3rd, undrafted, 5th, 4th, and 5th.

Mike Tomlin understands this.

That's why we didn't draft any linemen high in last year's draft when everyone was clamoring for us to do so.

MeetJoeGreene
02-20-2009, 09:32 AM
Good olineman can be found later in the draft. And I think this year is deep.

.

Here is a little History for you. Last Time the Steelers had a real good offensive line, their lineman were mostly all #1's and #2 draft picks.

Thanks for the history lesson.

How many SuperBowls did that line real good offensive line win for us? I assume you're speaking of 2000/1 right before Wayne Gandy left.

We just won a SuperBowl with a 3rd, 6th, 6th, undrafted, and a 4th round pick.

And if you look back to the 70s and SuperBowl XIV as an example, the draft positions of our starting oline then was 3rd, undrafted, 5th, 4th, and 5th.

Mike Tomlin understands this.

That's why we didn't draft any linemen high in last year's draft when everyone was clamoring for us to do so.

My problem with this is that we USED to have a really good track record of finding these late round gems. I am not so confident any more of that. Therefore I would like to spend at least one premium pick on that unit as we HAVE had good success with 1st rounders. Tony Hills is yet an unknown -- so if he emerges as a quality RT, enabling Colon to move and be a quality guard I will revise my thinking.

stlrz d
02-20-2009, 11:01 AM
MJG - I have that concern as well. Spend a premium pick and give the O line a much needed injection of quality talent.

flippy
02-20-2009, 11:04 AM
Good olineman can be found later in the draft. And I think this year is deep.

.

Here is a little History for you. Last Time the Steelers had a real good offensive line, their lineman were mostly all #1's and #2 draft picks.

Thanks for the history lesson.

How many SuperBowls did that line real good offensive line win for us? I assume you're speaking of 2000/1 right before Wayne Gandy left.

We just won a SuperBowl with a 3rd, 6th, 6th, undrafted, and a 4th round pick.

And if you look back to the 70s and SuperBowl XIV as an example, the draft positions of our starting oline then was 3rd, undrafted, 5th, 4th, and 5th.

Mike Tomlin understands this.

That's why we didn't draft any linemen high in last year's draft when everyone was clamoring for us to do so.

My problem with this is that we USED to have a really good track record of finding these late round gems. I am not so confident any more of that. Therefore I would like to spend at least one premium pick on that unit as we HAVE had good success with 1st rounders. Tony Hills is yet an unknown -- so if he emerges as a quality RT, enabling Colon to move and be a quality guard I will revise my thinking.

Mike Tomlin's only had 2 drafts so far.

If there was ever a time to panic and draft a lineman early, he would have last year.

But he didn't.

If you can get a premiere LT early and you need one, do it.

Otherwise, I tend to think you should wait.

I put Mack at 32 in my first mock, not because I wanted to, but because I couldn't find a guy I thought was a better player who would go around that point in the draft.

I see myself gravitating back toward wanting to take a NT, DE, CB, or WR in the 1st.

Let's look at the SuperBowl champs over the last decade and see how many first round picks they've used on OLine during the last decade:

Steelers - 1
NE - 1
Ravens - 1
Indy - 0
Tampa - 2
Rams - 1
Giants - 0

That's about 6 out of 70 1st round picks by the best teams in the league during the last decade.

Odds are, we're not picking a lineman.

QBs and Ds win championships.

Good OLine can be found on day 2.

feltdizz
02-20-2009, 01:08 PM
finally some of you are starting to get it.. we are not a scrub team picking in the top 5 where an LT is staring us in the face begging to start. If we won with that pitiful OL why the hell would you go OL at 32? Get value and go OL in the second or and 3rd rounds...

RuthlessBurgher
02-20-2009, 01:11 PM
Good olineman can be found later in the draft. And I think this year is deep.

.

Here is a little History for you. Last Time the Steelers had a real good offensive line, their lineman were mostly all #1's and #2 draft picks.

The Steelers have only selected OL twice in the first round that yielded a Pro Bowl calibre lineman. Their only 2nd round selection to address the offensive line that yielded anything close to greatness was in 1988 when they chose future HOF Dirt Dawson. All other noteworthy linemen were later round selections. If you are talking "history"... this team has had a history of selecting their linemen in the later rounds and have had great success in doing so, thus the term "Smash Mouth Football."

Marvel went to Hawaii after Super Bowl XL. Unfortunately, his back gave out on him shortly thereafter, but he was a Pro Bowl calibre second round pick (the only o-lineman drafted in the Colbert era to achieve such an honor).

Lonbull
02-20-2009, 06:45 PM
Let's look at the SuperBowl champs over the last decade and see how many first round picks they've used on OLine during the last decade:

Steelers - 1
NE - 1
Ravens - 1
Indy - 0
Tampa - 2
Rams - 1
Giants - 0

Good OLine can be found on day 2.


Flippin -

Yes - however - the Steelers actually had (4) first round draft picks on the Off. Line in 2005. Kendall Simmons, Alan Faneca, Jeff Hartings, and Heath Miller.

Heath I realize is a tweener, and Hartings wasn't our draft pick but they were former 1st rounders.

Personally I believe you can find ALL positions anywhere in the draft and certainly beyond.

I'm not arguing your draft approach - I think the Steelers/Colbert have done a remarkable job with the first round, and I wonder if that isn't their approach to begin with.

Take the best 1st Rounder - the guy you're paying the most money too and giving the longest contract too, and then build the remaining draft around him. In the case of both Lawrence Timmons and Rashard Mendenhall we took players that weren't necessarily "need" players - but perhaps and hopefully they were the surest long term bets. Both very talented and both very young.

I think several teams, and of course many amatuers may look at the entire draft and try to piece it together like a puzzle.

(i.e. I won't take a Guard in the first round because there's a great guy that "should" be available in the 4th).

Just a thought. :2c

L.B.