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Iron Shiek
02-17-2009, 10:40 AM
We may have to put aside all hope in getting this monster....

http://blogs.nfl.com/category/adam-schefter/
1st entry


Adam Schefter
Panthers trying to hash out new contract for OT Gross
Posted: February 16th, 2009 | Adam Schefter | Tags: Carolina Panthers, Jordan Gross, Julius Peppers

Carolina is making a strong push to sign prospective free-agent OT Jordan Gross by Thursday, which would enable the team to then slap its franchise tag on DE Julius Peppers.

The Panthers and Gross have made significant progress on a contract, and some expect a deal to be finalized this week, league sources said Monday night.

If and when a deal is done, it would pay Gross in the neighborhood of $9 million per year, the second-most lucrative contract for an offensive lineman.

The richest deal belongs to Dolphins OT Jake Long, the No. 1 overall pick last year, who signed a five-year, $50 million deal. Prior to Long, former Ravens OT Jonathan Ogden made the most at $8.5 million per year.

Peppers and Gross recently spent time together at the Pro Bowl, but they talked little of their contract situations. Yet they are intertwined.

Peppers said Saturday that he would request a trade should the Panthers use their franchise tag on him.

RuthlessBurgher
02-17-2009, 10:58 AM
I would pay Gross the Jake Long deal. Tell him to turn down the Panthers' $9 million offer and come to a better team for a million more per year. :wink:

Oviedo
02-17-2009, 11:12 AM
IMO we never had a chance to get Gross. There are too many teams with too much cap space. I was listening to local radio and the Tampa Bay Bucs need a LT and have close to $40M in cap space.

Starks is our best option and if not him there is a second tier of OTs like Donald Penn (Tampa) or Dan Loper (Tenn). For the stats gurus anyone know how they graded out.

flippy
02-17-2009, 11:22 AM
Ben showed he doesn't need a line to win.

Get him an elite WR.

And load up on defense. DLine, situational pass rushers, and CBs

calmkiller
02-17-2009, 11:29 AM
Draft a LT and sign Smith. Let the Rook learn under Smith until his back goes out again.

RuthlessBurgher
02-17-2009, 11:33 AM
Ben showed he doesn't need a line to win.

Get him an elite WR.

And load up on defense. DLine, situational pass rushers, and CBs

Couldn't disagree more (except for the part were you say we should draft d-line, because that is our #2 need behind o-line, and way the heck ahead of WR...unless Crabtree falls 30 spots lower than he should! :wink: ).

Discipline of Steel
02-17-2009, 11:35 AM
Ben showed he doesn't need a line to win.

Get him an elite WR.

And load up on defense. DLine, situational pass rushers, and CBs

You dont believe Stonio is elevating himself to 'near' elite status? Ben has at least 3 very competant receivers in Stonio, Ward, and Heath Miller. I think its obvious we need to restock both of our lines before anything else. I also believe we need to get a little bigger in the RB department...like add a real FB!?! 1st and goal from the 1 (or 3rd and 1)needs to be converted with regularity!

stlrz d
02-17-2009, 12:20 PM
I never thought we had a shot at him either.

But we do need to fix the O line simply for the health of Ben and the longevity of his career.

Ben's 26...I'd sure love to see another 10-12 years out of him, if not more.

If the O line continues to under perform there's no way that happens.

feltdizz
02-17-2009, 12:27 PM
I never thought we had a shot at him either.

But we do need to fix the O line simply for the health of Ben and the longevity of his career.

Ben's 26...I'd sure love to see another 10-12 years out of him, if not more.

If the O line continues to under perform there's no way that happens.

I hear you but think back to the Cleveland game and how Ben waited until the last second to make a 3 yard pass in a meaningless game and ended up getting carted off the field.

He plays the game in a way that it would useless to spend big money for the best OL you could get. Ben will still take hits.. 2004 he took 31 sacks with a great OL and a great ground game and less attempts..

If Ben gets hurt it isn't because the OL failed.. more then likely it's because Ben waited til the last second to make a play.

RuthlessBurgher
02-17-2009, 12:34 PM
I never thought we had a shot at him either.

But we do need to fix the O line simply for the health of Ben and the longevity of his career.

Ben's 26...I'd sure love to see another 10-12 years out of him, if not more.

If the O line continues to under perform there's no way that happens.

I hear you but think back to the Cleveland game and how Ben waited until the last second to make a 3 yard pass in a meaningless game and ended up getting carted off the field.

He plays the game in a way that it would useless to spend big money for the best OL you could get. Ben will still take hits.. 2004 he took 31 sacks with a great OL and a great ground game and less attempts..

If Ben gets hurt it isn't because the OL failed.. more then likely it's because Ben waited til the last second to make a play.

Sure, there will always be injury risk involved with Ben even if he had 5 All-Pro linemen simply because of how he plays the game. But if you look at what he was able to do when he has one second then run for his life, imagine what he could do with better blockers that give him three seconds then run for his life. He would still scramble around like a maniac because that is who he is, but he wouldn't have to do it quite as often.

stlrz d
02-17-2009, 12:39 PM
I never thought we had a shot at him either.

But we do need to fix the O line simply for the health of Ben and the longevity of his career.

Ben's 26...I'd sure love to see another 10-12 years out of him, if not more.

If the O line continues to under perform there's no way that happens.

I hear you but think back to the Cleveland game and how Ben waited until the last second to make a 3 yard pass in a meaningless game and ended up getting carted off the field.

He plays the game in a way that it would useless to spend big money for the best OL you could get. Ben will still take hits.. 2004 he took 31 sacks with a great OL and a great ground game and less attempts..

If Ben gets hurt it isn't because the OL failed.. more then likely it's because Ben waited til the last second to make a play.

I'm not saying we need to get the best OL in the league.

But we certainly need one better than we have now. Look, just as it happened with Elway and Favre it will happen with Ben too...he's going to get older and not be able to escape as well as he did in his younger days. His style of play will have to adapt to his skills.

The sooner we start solidifying the offensive line the better. Our O line doesn't have to be the best. But it definitely needs to be better than what it is now. 2 or 3 fewer hits per game less really adds up over the course of the season. Yeah the hits he takes aren't always the fault of the O line, but enough of them are that it needs to be addressed.

Fewer hits will extend his career. Injuries will happen in the NFL but that doesn't mean you don't do something in an attempt to prevent them.

Mister Pittsburgh
02-17-2009, 12:55 PM
I don't really see why you guys think he would cost too much for us to afford.

Starks + Marvell = 14 million dollars

Gross + Essex/Draft pick = probably less than 14 million dollars.

Plus, I don't think we would necessarily have to top Carolina's offer...just be in the same ballpark. Why wouldn't a guy like Gross want to come play for the defending superbowl Champs with a stud QB instead of Carolina whose QB threw 5 picks in the playoffs if the money was near the same.

RuthlessBurgher
02-17-2009, 01:14 PM
I don't really see why you guys think he would cost too much for us to afford.

Starks + Marvell = 14 million dollars

Gross + Essex/Draft pick = probably less than 14 million dollars.

Plus, I don't think we would necessarily have to top Carolina's offer...just be in the same ballpark. Why wouldn't a guy like Gross want to come play for the defending superbowl Champs with a stud QB instead of Carolina whose QB threw 5 picks in the playoffs if the money was near the same.

I agree with this logic and Gross would be my #1 target for the biggest FA deal this team has ever made. However, I think if Carolina is not able to sign Gross to an extension by Thursday, they will probably franchise him again and let Julius Peppers walk, since Peppers has this weird idea in his head that he is somehow an ideal 3-4 OLB all of a sudden. I think the Panthers will do whatever they can to make sure Gross does not hit the open market where a team like ours can offer them what you suggest. I hope he does hit the market and we get a legit shot at him, but it is looking pretty darn unlikely at this point.

stlrz d
02-17-2009, 01:25 PM
I don't really see why you guys think he would cost too much for us to afford.

Starks + Marvell = 14 million dollars

Gross + Essex/Draft pick = probably less than 14 million dollars.

Plus, I don't think we would necessarily have to top Carolina's offer...just be in the same ballpark. Why wouldn't a guy like Gross want to come play for the defending superbowl Champs with a stud QB instead of Carolina whose QB threw 5 picks in the playoffs if the money was near the same.

I guess it's also fair to ask why a guy would go to a different team to learn a new system for the similar money?

We like to think these guys are all team guys and in it to win, but that's not always the case. Players leave good teams for bad teams all the time...because of the money.

Mister Pittsburgh
02-17-2009, 01:34 PM
[quote="Mister Pittsburgh":ucr8cket]I don't really see why you guys think he would cost too much for us to afford.

Starks + Marvell = 14 million dollars

Gross + Essex/Draft pick = probably less than 14 million dollars.

Plus, I don't think we would necessarily have to top Carolina's offer...just be in the same ballpark. Why wouldn't a guy like Gross want to come play for the defending superbowl Champs with a stud QB instead of Carolina whose QB threw 5 picks in the playoffs if the money was near the same.

I guess it's also fair to ask why a guy would go to a different team to learn a new system for the similar money?

We like to think these guys are all team guys and in it to win, but that's not always the case. Players leave good teams for bad teams all the time...because of the money.[/quote:ucr8cket]

Well, it isn't like we are a flash in the pan team that made it to the Superbowl for only the first or second time in the teams existence. We have made the AFCCG 7 out of the past 15 years or something ridiculous like that. If I were a player I would consider eating a little money I could have to play on a team like that.

I am not saying/thinking give him 7 million when they offer him 9. I am saying if they offer him 9 we match around that same amount. If you ink a 4 year deal, there is plenty of time to learn a new system.

And really, how hard is it to learn 'run to the left, run to the right, run up the gut' :moon

stlrz d
02-17-2009, 01:44 PM
[quote="stlrz d":3ds4umrh][quote="Mister Pittsburgh":3ds4umrh]I don't really see why you guys think he would cost too much for us to afford.

Starks + Marvell = 14 million dollars

Gross + Essex/Draft pick = probably less than 14 million dollars.

Plus, I don't think we would necessarily have to top Carolina's offer...just be in the same ballpark. Why wouldn't a guy like Gross want to come play for the defending superbowl Champs with a stud QB instead of Carolina whose QB threw 5 picks in the playoffs if the money was near the same.

I guess it's also fair to ask why a guy would go to a different team to learn a new system for the similar money?

We like to think these guys are all team guys and in it to win, but that's not always the case. Players leave good teams for bad teams all the time...because of the money.[/quote:3ds4umrh]

Well, it isn't like we are a flash in the pan team that made it to the Superbowl for only the first or second time in the teams existence. We have made the AFCCG 7 out of the past 15 years or something ridiculous like that. If I were a player I would consider eating a little money I could have to play on a team like that.

I am not saying/thinking give him 7 million when they offer him 9. I am saying if they offer him 9 we match around that same amount. If you ink a 4 year deal, there is plenty of time to learn a new system.

And really, how hard is it to learn 'run to the left, run to the right, run up the gut' :moon[/quote:3ds4umrh]

But that's you. I would do the same, but that doesn't mean all players feel that way. You don't need to look any further than Faneca to see that. If a guy's all about the money then winning isn't his top priority.

As for your last point, I know you're making an Ariens joke, but really, learning a whole new offense takes a lot of work.

Mister Pittsburgh
02-17-2009, 01:52 PM
[quote="Mister Pittsburgh":2azyu95h][quote="stlrz d":2azyu95h][quote="Mister Pittsburgh":2azyu95h]I don't really see why you guys think he would cost too much for us to afford.

Starks + Marvell = 14 million dollars

Gross + Essex/Draft pick = probably less than 14 million dollars.

Plus, I don't think we would necessarily have to top Carolina's offer...just be in the same ballpark. Why wouldn't a guy like Gross want to come play for the defending superbowl Champs with a stud QB instead of Carolina whose QB threw 5 picks in the playoffs if the money was near the same.

I guess it's also fair to ask why a guy would go to a different team to learn a new system for the similar money?

We like to think these guys are all team guys and in it to win, but that's not always the case. Players leave good teams for bad teams all the time...because of the money.[/quote:2azyu95h]

Well, it isn't like we are a flash in the pan team that made it to the Superbowl for only the first or second time in the teams existence. We have made the AFCCG 7 out of the past 15 years or something ridiculous like that. If I were a player I would consider eating a little money I could have to play on a team like that.

I am not saying/thinking give him 7 million when they offer him 9. I am saying if they offer him 9 we match around that same amount. If you ink a 4 year deal, there is plenty of time to learn a new system.

And really, how hard is it to learn 'run to the left, run to the right, run up the gut' :moon[/quote:2azyu95h]

But that's you. I would do the same, but that doesn't mean all players feel that way. You don't need to look any further than Faneca to see that. If a guy's all about the money then winning isn't his top priority.

As for your last point, I know you're making an Ariens joke, but really, learning a whole new offense takes a lot of work.[/quote:2azyu95h]

To be fair, did the Steelers offer Faneca a deal even near what the Jets did? I mean even in the same zip code? I don't think they did.

I do agree that SOME players would take a little more money over winning, but it doesn't hurt to offer that money. If they turn it down, then oh well. At that point you know what motivates that player. But if you don't even try to see if they would come then you aren't doing your best to load up your team.

stlrz d
02-17-2009, 02:20 PM
I think there are benefits to not offering a guy money you know he won't take.