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View Full Version : Our plan for Jordan Gross. Just hear me out.



Oracle
02-10-2009, 07:09 AM
In the NFL, windows for Super Bowls do not stay open long. We need a solid left tackle and we need one now while we're still in contention (and before Ben gets hurt).

Many people are suggesting we sign Starks for a medium range contract (4-5 yrs. $6 million/per) because we don't have any better options. I disagree.

Jordan Gross will very likely be franchised within the coming weeks. Good. I say we sign him anyway. Just hear me out.

To "steel" Gross away from Carolina it will cost us two first round picks. We're picking at 32 this year and with our favorable scheduele probably 28-ish next year. In my opinion that is a reasonable trade for Gross. Think about it. What if someone offered us a chance to pick up Eugene Monroe/Andre Smith/Jayson Smith in a trade for our first and second round picks this year? We'd jump on that in a heartbeat, right? And those are unproven rookies. Why not up the ante to two firsts (since our firsts are so low) and get a proven pro-bowler? It's actually quite fair.

Then we could use our 2nd, 3rd, and possibly 3rd round comp pick, to draft a very good OC, OG, and DL.

Now for the dollars. It would probably cost us about 6 yrs. $9 million/per to land him. Remember, once he has the tag on him we wouldn't really be bidding against anyone else except Carolina (because no other team besides us could give up two 1st rounders and have it make sense). And if Carolina was going to pay him that much, they wouldn't put the tag on him in the first place, they'd just sign him. I would much rather pay $9 mil for Gross than $6 mil for Starks. Plus remember, we wouldn't have to pay either of our 1st round picks, so we'd save some money there.

Basically, the money does make sense. It is not overpaying. The only disadvantage is we'd lose one LOW 1st rd pick next year. So what? We get a pro-bowl left tackle RIGHT NOW. No waiting for development. We protect Big Ben's ass right now from those blindside hits and open some holes for Mendenhall/Parker. Strike now while the window is open and we have a good shot at back-to-back Lombardies.

I'm anxious to hear your thoughts. Thank you.

Oviedo
02-10-2009, 08:38 AM
Definitely out of the box thinking but the "Steelers build through the draft." That is their mantra and they really run the business that way. No way they give up two #1 draft picks.

Mister Pittsburgh
02-10-2009, 08:42 AM
Not sure if Carolina franchised him yet or not. I was calling for us to make a push at him in the offseason too. We could probably land him and Trai Essex for the same as what we paid Marvel & Max. If Carolina doesn't franchise him maybe he would take a little less money to sign on a Superbowl winner/contender. Who knows.

Iron Shiek
02-10-2009, 08:48 AM
I'd love if they found a way to bring Gross in. But we are talking about the Steelers. They don't break the bank for anyone (except for stud qb that was drafted...i think his name is ben something... :D )

Anyway, I relegated myself to the fact that Gross was going to be out of reach, and am hoping we now just at least keep Starks and bring in one of the other free agents and draft a couple to develop.

RuthlessBurgher
02-10-2009, 11:03 AM
Wait a minute...I thought Seattle was picking 4th overall, not 32nd overall...hmmm... :wink:

SteelerNation1
02-10-2009, 11:55 AM
Wait a minute...I thought Seattle was picking 4th overall, not 32nd overall...hmmm... :wink:
:lol: I was thinking the same thing.

Snatch98
02-10-2009, 12:16 PM
Can he be franchised again? I'm pretty sure he was franchised for this season. I didn't think you could franchise a player in back to back seasons?

EDIT: Apparently a player can be tagged 3 times in a row.

WoodleyofTroy
02-10-2009, 01:37 PM
With our recent track record of first round picks, no way I'd give up two for Gross.

1st round pick
1st round pick
Max Starks

or

Jordan Gross


I'll take the first one.

SanAntonioSteelerFan
02-10-2009, 01:44 PM
Wait a minute...I thought Seattle was picking 4th overall, not 32nd overall...hmmm... :wink:
:lol: I was thinking the same thing.

Ditto here.

Sea Oracle - are you still a Seahawks fan who posts on another team's board occasionally? Or have you found salvation in the Black and Gold? :tt2 :tt1 If the latter - welcome!

P.S. Just to clarify, those Superbowl hats are Steeler hats, not Seahawk hats, colors notwithstanding!

Jooser
02-10-2009, 01:45 PM
Where ya been Oracle? You should have been here for number six man! :tt2

steelblood
02-10-2009, 02:25 PM
Gross is good. But, not that good. Starks was not terrible in pass pro and he is a decent run blocker. Starks sacks given up are not that bad (especially considering his QB's propensity for holding the ball to extend the play). Gross wants to be the highest paid o-linemen in the league. He probably won't even sit down to negociate if you aren't willing to talk about 9 million per season. And even if we offer that much, he may go somewhere else anyway. I'd save the three million and two first round picks and look to upgrade the rest of of our poor line. If Starks will sign a deal at 6 - 6.5 per season for about 4-5 years, do it.

RuthlessBurgher
02-10-2009, 02:40 PM
Gross is good. But, not that good. Starks was not terrible in pass pro and he is a decent run blocker. Starks sacks given up are not that bad (especially considering his QB's propensity for holding the ball to extend the play). Gross wants to be the highest paid o-linemen in the league. He probably won't even sit down to negociate if you aren't willing to talk about 9 million per season. And even if we offer that much, he may go somewhere else anyway. I'd save the three million and two first round picks and look to upgrade the rest of of our poor line. If Starks will sign a deal at 6 - 6.5 per season for about 4-5 years, do it.

I have been a major advocate for going after Gross (I would be willing to over that $9 million per year mark that you suggest up into 8 figures to get the guy as a free agent) but even I would draw the line at the 2 first round picks. Look at Colbert's record with first round picks, even if they are late in the round. Those two picks potentially could be used on an o-lineman like Alex Mack this year and a d-lineman like Terrence Cody next year, for instance. If the Panthers franchise Gross, it is game over regarding any interest we might have had. The obsession with Gross started when it looked like Carolina would not franchise him (tagging Julius Peppers instead) but since Peppers publicly stated his desire to go elsewhere, now it looks like the Panthers could franchise Gross and let Peppers walk. D@mn Peppers!!!

SidSmythe
02-10-2009, 03:03 PM
No way do I give that much up for GROSS . . . maybe if he was 25 yrs. old.

OUR best option at this point is MAX STARKS and draft young LINEMAN.

Mister Pittsburgh
02-10-2009, 04:01 PM
No way do I give that much up for GROSS . . . maybe if he was 25 yrs. old.

OUR best option at this point is MAX STARKS and draft young LINEMAN.

Didn't realize Gross was 29. Thought he was only 26 or 27.

BradshawsHairdresser
02-10-2009, 07:08 PM
If we could get Gross for $9 million/per, it would be a great deal (we just paid Starks $6.9 million for this past season!).

I don't see it happening.

WoodleyofTroy
02-10-2009, 07:22 PM
I'd rather have the next Jordan Gross in Eben Britton and keep my other first round pick.

Mister Pittsburgh
02-11-2009, 12:53 AM
I like the mock you have in your sig, although I don't buy getting a 2nd round pick for Willie Parker. I could live with that draft even without Duke Robinson though.

SidSmythe
02-11-2009, 10:35 AM
No one's giving up a 2nd for an semi-aged RB
I honestly doubt a team would give up a 2nd for Tomlinson at this point in his career.

pfelix73
02-11-2009, 11:45 AM
No. No. No. This is a terrible idea, IMO. Too costly. Look, we're gonna have many guys to re-sign in the next few years- 2 that come to mind are Woodley and Colon- if he stays with the team. There are others that are going to need some TLC from the salary cap as well......

Gross isn't that much better than a young Starks- IMO. Not what you're willing to give up.

WoodleyofTroy
02-11-2009, 05:20 PM
I like the mock you have in your sig, although I don't buy getting a 2nd round pick for Willie Parker. I could live with that draft even without Duke Robinson though.


How about the end of the 2nd round (almost a 3rd) to Arizona? :D
They're trying to win now with Warner, and Edge is leaving...

buckeyehoppy
02-13-2009, 02:37 AM
Can he be franchised again? I'm pretty sure he was franchised for this season. I didn't think you could franchise a player in back to back seasons?

EDIT: Apparently a player can be tagged 3 times in a row.

I'd love to have Jordan Gross...but not at the cost of US$9M/year AND TWO 1st Round picks. Even that seems just a tad steep.

IMPORTANT NOTE: SINCE HE IS PROBABLY STAYING WITH US, I AM CALLING A PERSONAL MORATORIUM ON REFERRING TO MAX STARKS AS "MAX SUCKS". NO SENSE BEATING A DEAD HORSE.

If the Steelers are able to tag Starks three times in a row, I say dangle the carrot and tag him again. Until he can prove that he can be a consistently good LT in the NFL (and he ain't there by a long shot), the Steelers should be wary of any contract demands from him. Granted, they will still be overpaying for him. But they can do this two more times. It would still be less than paying for a long term deal on Gross.

If you do stay with Starks, I think the best insurance policy against future inconsistent play with him will be to go high with someone who will push him. There's still a lot of ebb and flow in the draft process, with two + months left before the draft. But with the need to get some trench help still there even with securing Starks, I'd think there's no harm in trading up in the first if there is still a viable player remaining between 1.20 and 1.25.

We'll see how all this plays out. The Steelers will be selecting AT LEAST ONE OL in the first two picks. That is damned near a guarantee. The track record of the current OL and their contract statuses say that it would be a guarantee. Just who that player is, though, remains to be seen.

Oviedo
02-13-2009, 12:02 PM
Can he be franchised again? I'm pretty sure he was franchised for this season. I didn't think you could franchise a player in back to back seasons?

EDIT: Apparently a player can be tagged 3 times in a row.

I'd love to have Jordan Gross...but not at the cost of US$9M/year AND TWO 1st Round picks. Even that seems just a tad steep.

IMPORTANT NOTE: SINCE HE IS PROBABLY STAYING WITH US, I AM CALLING A PERSONAL MORATORIUM ON REFERRING TO MAX STARKS AS "MAX SUCKS". NO SENSE BEATING A DEAD HORSE.

If the Steelers are able to tag Starks three times in a row, I say dangle the carrot and tag him again. Until he can prove that he can be a consistently good LT in the NFL (and he ain't there by a long shot), the Steelers should be wary of any contract demands from him. Granted, they will still be overpaying for him. But they can do this two more times. It would still be less than paying for a long term deal on Gross.

If you do stay with Starks, I think the best insurance policy against future inconsistent play with him will be to go high with someone who will push him. There's still a lot of ebb and flow in the draft process, with two + months left before the draft. But with the need to get some trench help still there even with securing Starks, I'd think there's no harm in trading up in the first if there is still a viable player remaining between 1.20 and 1.25.

We'll see how all this plays out. The Steelers will be selecting AT LEAST ONE OL in the first two picks. That is damned near a guarantee. The track record of the current OL and their contract statuses say that it would be a guarantee. Just who that player is, though, remains to be seen.

I second your motion. Max doesn't suck and he was probably the best offensive lineman on the team that won the Super Bowl--hypercritical so called "experts" notwithstanding