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RuthlessBurgher
02-05-2009, 10:46 PM
Since the last few Arians' threads disintegrated rather precipitously, for those of you who would still like to discuss any positives or negatives about our coordinator may continue to do so here and long as you do so respectfully. Just because the last few threads about this topic turning into a name-calling-fest does not mean that the rest of us should not be allowed to voice our opinions on the matter in a civil manner. Have at it.

Steeler Shades
02-05-2009, 11:03 PM
I think we need a new OC. This one is not very good. 8)

MeetJoeGreene
02-05-2009, 11:08 PM
I have a better idea... lets start one thread on Arians POSTIVES and one on Arians NEGATIVES and see which gets to 10 pages first!!

Iron Shiek
02-05-2009, 11:11 PM
Arians is like Willie Parker in a way. He shows flashes of greatness, then leaves you scratching your head for a while. Although I've never really cursed at Parker.

Maybe not a strong analogy, but you get my drift. I can love what he's doing for two drives, then the entire gameplan seems to change...while its not always seeming to be dictated by the flow of play. I don't get it sometimes.

Flasteel
02-05-2009, 11:38 PM
I have a better idea... lets start one thread on Arians POSTIVES and one on Arians NEGATIVES and see which gets to 10 pages first!!

Let's do it.

stlrz d
02-06-2009, 01:35 AM
I'm disappointed that he didn't get the HC job in KC. :(

pfelix73
02-06-2009, 11:16 AM
Agreed. Wish he would've moved on.

feltdizz
02-06-2009, 03:47 PM
Arians is like Willie Parker in a way. He shows flashes of greatness, then leaves you scratching your head for a while. Although I've never really cursed at Parker.

Maybe not a strong analogy, but you get my drift. I can love what he's doing for two drives, then the entire gameplan seems to change...while its not always seeming to be dictated by the flow of play. I don't get it sometimes.

I feel you on this... FWP is crazy good when the OL blocks and he has an obvious hole. But if the OL misses a block? 7 out of 10 times it's a one to 3 yard gain.

If our players don't execute Arians looks bad... the single back is what has harmed Arians.. it is equivelant to the 7 step drop Ben used to take.

Iron Shiek
02-06-2009, 03:53 PM
Arians is like Willie Parker in a way. He shows flashes of greatness, then leaves you scratching your head for a while. Although I've never really cursed at Parker.

Maybe not a strong analogy, but you get my drift. I can love what he's doing for two drives, then the entire gameplan seems to change...while its not always seeming to be dictated by the flow of play. I don't get it sometimes.

I feel you on this... FWP is crazy good when the OL blocks and he has an obvious hole. But if the OL misses a block? 7 out of 10 times it's a one to 3 yard gain.

If our players don't execute Arians looks bad... the single back is what has harmed Arians.. it is equivelant to the 7 step drop Ben used to take.

I'm glad we agree on this. Some of us obviously take it too far and immediately want him fired when he doesn't take a cue from the results and adjust a bit. That is what is so bloody frustrating.

Jigawatts
02-06-2009, 04:22 PM
I'm not a huge fan of Arians either, but as some pointed out, the offensive line is a huge
part of the problem. I don't think I've seen one successful screen pass this season and
that's all on the line (except for when FWP drops the ball.)

I've been screaming for Arians to call more screen passes, but every time one is called,
it's unsuccessful. Now I can see why we don't run them a lot. Can't blame Arians for the
personnel problems on the line, that's either the players or the line coach or both.

What I don't like at all, besides no fullback, is the empty set. Why not just line up
and tell the defense we'll be passing.

feltdizz
02-06-2009, 04:30 PM
They showed a set we ran in the SB when we had 5 guys on one side of the line and they still couldn't block 3 guys...

Miller was on the outside and doubled inside and the guy on his outside runs past him and makes the tackle. :wft

maybe it's all about blocking inside but if the run play is inside why double down instead of kicking out.

our TE's are terrible blockers... this is a bigger problem then having a FB. Spaeth and Miller kill us on running plays.

papillon
02-06-2009, 04:33 PM
They showed a set we ran in the SB when we had 5 guys on one side of the line and they still couldn't block 3 guys...

Miller was on the outside and doubled inside and the guy on his outside runs past him and makes the tackle. :wft

maybe it's all about blocking inside but if the run play is inside why double down instead of kicking out.

our TE's are terrible blockers... this is a bigger problem then having a FB. Spaeth and Miller kill us on running plays.

Spaeth kills us in the running game, multiple clips of good blocks by Miller were shown during the SB. Spaeth misses completely on occasion and when he does get his hands on the player across from him it isn't for long. He may be a decent option catching the ball next year, but, the defense will begin to realize real soon that the Steelers will not be running to Spaeth's side.

Pappy

AngryAsian
02-06-2009, 04:49 PM
Since we have BA and he's not going anywhere I'd like to see the following:

Less redundant plays ran up the middle with Willie when it is clear its not his strength

Get improved OL play

More plays that require Ben to roll out of the pocket

More plays that require an OG to pull to the outside and help with blocking on run plays to the outside with Willie, his obvious strength

Unleash the no-huddle in a non-emergent manner. Ben is surgeon with an opposing team's secondary when we're running it, why we don't incorporate it more often is beyond "head scratching" mode.

Oviedo
02-06-2009, 05:40 PM
I intelligently predict that Arians will be the OC next year because the people who really know something and whose opinions really matter do not have a negative view of him. From a football standpoint they have more information of what really goes on and so that classifies them as being more intelligent than any of us.

We could however intelligently continue to beat the intelligent dead horse some more over the OC.

papillon
02-06-2009, 05:47 PM
I intelligently predict that Arians will be the OC next year because the people who really know something and whose opinions really matter do not have a negative view of him. From a football standpoint they have more information of what really goes on and so that classifies them as being more intelligent than any of us.

We could however intelligently continue to beat the intelligent dead horse some more over the OC.


Those same intelligent people should thank their lucky stars that this year's version of the Steel Curtain plays on the same team as this year's 22nd ranked defense.

The offense showed up when it had to this year, I will give them that, but, there were many games that the offense kept the opponent in the game when the defense was holding the opponent to under 14 points.

Pappy

dirt
02-06-2009, 07:35 PM
I agree with a lot of what's been said here. Here is my list of my complaints against Arians.

1. Rare use of a FB. There were a couple of instances during the SB where the line actually opened a nice hole, but the linebacker was able to fill it and because there was no lead blocker he quickly made the tackle.

2. Screens. I place some of our inability to run a decent screen at Arians feet. We should use Moore more on screens, especially on 3rd downs. I also think we should run more short screens to Willie. I know he has terrible hands, but surely he can catch a short dump off screen in the flat. Right? Why do we run screens to Davis? Has he ever gotten a first down?

3. Goal line. I swear we have two goal line plays. A run behind left guard and a pass to Carey Davis to the right in the flat. Seriously how many times did we run those two plays this year down near the goal line. Even on the Holmes touchdown, he said he was the 3rd read and he figured they'd just through a pass to the rb in the flat. Isn't Spaeth like 6'8" Can't we at least try to toss it up to him?

4. Running plays. They try to run up the middle way to much. With Willie's speed I'd like to see more pitches around the end. Especially against teams like Baltimore.

Those are my complaints. I know the line doesn't help, but that's only part of the story for our offensive struggles. We won a lot of close games this year, including the super bowl, which I believe if our offense was just a little better, would not have been close at all.

Dirt

Steeler Shades
02-06-2009, 10:28 PM
The losing OC in the SB got a job as a HC. The OC on the winning team didn't get a sniff. 8)

BURGH86STEEL
02-06-2009, 10:39 PM
They showed a set we ran in the SB when we had 5 guys on one side of the line and they still couldn't block 3 guys...

Miller was on the outside and doubled inside and the guy on his outside runs past him and makes the tackle. :wft

maybe it's all about blocking inside but if the run play is inside why double down instead of kicking out.

our TE's are terrible blockers... this is a bigger problem then having a FB. Spaeth and Miller kill us on running plays.

Spaeth kills us in the running game, multiple clips of good blocks by Miller were shown during the SB. Spaeth misses completely on occasion and when he does get his hands on the player across from him it isn't for long. He may be a decent option catching the ball next year, but, the defense will begin to realize real soon that the Steelers will not be running to Spaeth's side.

Pappy

Miller has his problems with blocking. If he is better than Spaeth, it is not by much. It is something that both TEs need to work on.

BURGH86STEEL
02-06-2009, 11:01 PM
Since we have BA and he's not going anywhere I'd like to see the following:

Less redundant plays ran up the middle with Willie when it is clear its not his strength

Get improved OL play

More plays that require Ben to roll out of the pocket

More plays that require an OG to pull to the outside and help with blocking on run plays to the outside with Willie, his obvious strength

Unleash the no-huddle in a non-emergent manner. Ben is surgeon with an opposing team's secondary when we're running it, why we don't incorporate it more often is beyond "head scratching" mode.

As an NFL RB, you have to be able to run up the middle. Some people do not give Parker credit for being a tough inside runner. He is a very tough inside runner. Improve the blocking and there will be an improvement.

I agree that the Oline play has to be improved.

There is a reason why teams do not do a lot of roll out plays consistently. One reason is one half the field is taken away as an option for the QB. Less field for the defense to cover.

Our guards were not good enough pull like Faneca or Simmons. Kemo lacks awareness and is not as quick or fast. Stapleton does not appear powerful or athletic run blocker.

There are several reasons why they do not run the no huddle consistently. How many teams run it consistently? The more it is run, the more chances teams have a chance to break it down and have a defense for it. Players get tired. The more the ball is thrown, the more bad things can happen. Sacks, INTs, incompletions, false start penalties, and so on.

I prefer to see an offense that lines up and executes whatever is called. Arians has called good games this season. The players failure to execute killed scoring opportunities.

papillon
02-06-2009, 11:41 PM
They showed a set we ran in the SB when we had 5 guys on one side of the line and they still couldn't block 3 guys...

Miller was on the outside and doubled inside and the guy on his outside runs past him and makes the tackle. :wft

maybe it's all about blocking inside but if the run play is inside why double down instead of kicking out.

our TE's are terrible blockers... this is a bigger problem then having a FB. Spaeth and Miller kill us on running plays.

Spaeth kills us in the running game, multiple clips of good blocks by Miller were shown during the SB. Spaeth misses completely on occasion and when he does get his hands on the player across from him it isn't for long. He may be a decent option catching the ball next year, but, the defense will begin to realize real soon that the Steelers will not be running to Spaeth's side.

Pappy

Miller has his problems with blocking. If he is better than Spaeth, it is not by much. It is something that both TEs need to work on.

Every time they showed him (Miller) blocking in the Superbowl he was pushing someone around pretty good. He even had a pancake in that game. I've seen Matt spaeth miss a guy completely that was lined up directly in front of him.

Just my 2 cents

Pappy

Flasteel
02-07-2009, 03:23 AM
The losing OC in the SB got a job as a HC. The OC on the winning team didn't get a sniff. 8)

Not to mention that the losing DC was fired. This should serve to dispell the notion that you can't fire a coordinator after you reach the Super Bowl.

BURGH86STEEL
02-07-2009, 03:56 AM
They showed a set we ran in the SB when we had 5 guys on one side of the line and they still couldn't block 3 guys...

Miller was on the outside and doubled inside and the guy on his outside runs past him and makes the tackle. :wft

maybe it's all about blocking inside but if the run play is inside why double down instead of kicking out.

our TE's are terrible blockers... this is a bigger problem then having a FB. Spaeth and Miller kill us on running plays.

Spaeth kills us in the running game, multiple clips of good blocks by Miller were shown during the SB. Spaeth misses completely on occasion and when he does get his hands on the player across from him it isn't for long. He may be a decent option catching the ball next year, but, the defense will begin to realize real soon that the Steelers will not be running to Spaeth's side.

Pappy

Miller has his problems with blocking. If he is better than Spaeth, it is not by much. It is something that both TEs need to work on.

Every time they showed him (Miller) blocking in the Superbowl he was pushing someone around pretty good. He even had a pancake in that game. I've seen Matt spaeth miss a guy completely that was lined up directly in front of him.

Just my 2 cents

Pappy

I've seen it happen to both during the season. They have stuggles blocking Dlinemen. One game does not define how well or poorly players can play. Consistency is the key. Neither is in the Mark Bruener class of blocking TE's right now. It is an area that both need to work on for the run game to get better.

RuthlessBurgher
02-07-2009, 12:20 PM
The losing OC in the SB got a job as a HC. The OC on the winning team didn't get a sniff. 8)

Not to mention that the losing DC was fired. This should serve to dispell the notion that you can't fire a coordinator after you reach the Super Bowl.

I didn't think it was smart for Whis to let Pendergast go. His defense was improving. Especially since the Chiefs hired their O.C. Haley away to be their Head Coach (which was unavoidable), now, after their first truly successful season in, well, forever, the Cardinals need to adapt to a new O.C. and a new D.C. If I were Whis, Clancy would still be there.
:2c

Flasteel
02-07-2009, 12:55 PM
The losing OC in the SB got a job as a HC. The OC on the winning team didn't get a sniff. 8)

Not to mention that the losing DC was fired. This should serve to dispell the notion that you can't fire a coordinator after you reach the Super Bowl.

I didn't think it was smart for Whis to let Pendergast go. His defense was improving. Especially since the Chiefs hired their O.C. Haley away to be their Head Coach (which was unavoidable), now, after their first truly successful season in, well, forever, the Cardinals need to adapt to a new O.C. and a new D.C. If I were Whis, Clancy would still be there.
:2c

I wouldn't argue that at all Ruthless. There were however a few folks who stated that you simply can't fire a coordinator after their unit was partially responsible for getting a team to the big game. Here's the evidence that you can...right or wrong.

Based, on their post season improvement and the fact that the 'Zona defense was statistically superior to the Steelers' offense during the regular season, you can make the argument that Pendergast stoond on far more stable ground than does Arians.

I don't think a change is coming but it's not like there isn't any precedent or sound rationale for it.

Steeler Shades
02-07-2009, 01:49 PM
The losing OC in the SB got a job as a HC. The OC on the winning team didn't get a sniff. 8)Not to mention that the losing DC was fired. This should serve to dispell the notion that you can't fire a coordinator after you reach the Super Bowl.I didn't think it was smart for Whis to let Pendergast go...... :2cI wouldn't argue that at all Ruthless. There were however a few folks who stated that you simply can't fire a coordinator after their unit was partially responsible for getting a team to the big game. Here's the evidence that you can...right or wrong.

Based, on their post season improvement and the fact that the 'Zona defense was statistically superior to the Steelers' offense during the regular season, you can make the argument that Pendergast stoond on far more stable ground than does Arians.

I don't think a change is coming but it's not like there isn't any precedent or sound rationale for it.
$$$$$$
:Clap :Bow :Clap
Two excellent posts Flasteel!!!
Sadly, continuity is AGAIN the Steelers approach to under performing coaches. 8)

bostonsteeler
02-07-2009, 11:09 PM
Why are we not discussing Pervy Z.?

BradshawsHairdresser
02-08-2009, 03:04 AM
Why are we not discussing Pervy Z.?

Why discuss the disgusting?




Seriously, considering the players he had to work with, maybe not such a bad job by the Perv. I thought they showed improvement as the season went on...not sure Grimmy could have done a whole lot better with the OL talent the Steelers had this year.

feltdizz
02-08-2009, 03:54 PM
Why would the Cards fire a DC after the postseason they had? Sure they let 2 leads get away from them but our DC also was a play away form being the goat. Would we fire DL because of the SB performance?

This is the reason why organizations aren't consistent.

buckeyehoppy
02-08-2009, 04:54 PM
With a team ranked 22nd overall in total offense, the onus is with the OC to prove to the team that he can handle the job, not the other way around.

Translation: Ariens job is NOT secure if he doesn't show improvement next season.

Sure, the Steelers need to get some players on O to make that happen...especially at OL. But the OC needs to use the guys he has as efficiently as possible. IOW, he needs to tailor the O to suit them before he goes with his default O. So far, BA isn't fooling anybody in that regard. His offense is very vanilla and predictable. It probably explains the O's overall #s.

For those that are defending BA, that's great...your mock drafts better reflect the team's need to shore up the OL (another aspect of the team that isn't fooling anybody). I would figure you would seek OL players with EACH of the first two players drafted, which, BTW, wouldn't be a bad way to go.

But that where the excusing of BA's game planning ends. If he has all the tools he needs, then he'd better produce results. The Steelers have a golden opportunity with the schedule they play next year to set themselves up for a repeat performance in the SB. It's not an exaggeration. But BA's O needs to improve and take some of the pressure to perform off the D so they don't have to be called on to limit teams to single digits in scoring every time the O doesn't produce.

feltdizz
02-08-2009, 05:44 PM
With a team ranked 22nd overall in total offense, the onus is with the OC to prove to the team that he can handle the job, not the other way around.

Translation: Ariens job is NOT secure if he doesn't show improvement next season.

Sure, the Steelers need to get some players on O to make that happen...especially at OL. But the OC needs to use the guys he has as efficiently as possible. IOW, he needs to tailor the O to suit them before he goes with his default O. So far, BA isn't fooling anybody in that regard. His offense is very vanilla and predictable. It probably explains the O's overall #s.

For those that are defending BA, that's great...your mock drafts better reflect the team's need to shore up the OL (another aspect of the team that isn't fooling anybody). I would figure you would seek OL players with EACH of the first two players drafted, which, BTW, wouldn't be a bad way to go.

But that where the excusing of BA's game planning ends. If he has all the tools he needs, then he'd better produce results. The Steelers have a golden opportunity with the schedule they play next year to set themselves up for a repeat performance in the SB. It's not an exaggeration. But BA's O needs to improve and take some of the pressure to perform off the D so they don't have to be called on to limit teams to single digits in scoring every time the O doesn't produce.

I hear you but it's pretty strange to say the OC of the SB winning team who won on a late TD drive needs to show vast improvement...
What results do you want after winning a SB with the hardest schedule ever?

I expect better results but you have to look at our offensive history with Ben as well. As great as Ben is... he can also turn a blowout into a close game with untimely INT's.

I'm not saying Ben is the reason but when we had a TD skid.. Lefty came in and we scored in 3 minutes.... Ben was hurt.. it happens.

I expect us to improve some on offense but not top 5 or even top ten.
..and you know what? I prefer it that way. Pittsburgh will always be defense first and it should be..

How many offensive juggernauts went deep in the playoffs this year? Arians is getting the brunt of the bashing when execution is 70% of the problem...

NorthCoast
02-08-2009, 10:40 PM
An offense that drops by 7 positions in the ranking after two seasons sure would make me wonder whether he's all that. So we decide to use more 2 and 3 TE sets and yet we have one decent blocker (Miller) and the drop-off after that is steep. We have a RB that thinks he runs better behind a FB, yet we won't use that formation more than twice a game. We run the bunch formation behind a poor pass-blocking OL knowing that 2 out of 3 WR's are running long routes. On any lesser team, BA would be lucky to hold an assistant's job. But the heroics of one Ben Roethlisberger and the No. 1 defense in the land make him look like he knows what he is doing.

AngryAsian
02-09-2009, 12:39 AM
An offense that drops by 7 positions in the ranking after two seasons sure would make me wonder whether he's all that. So we decide to use more 2 and 3 TE sets and yet we have one decent blocker (Miller) and the drop-off after that is steep. We have a RB that thinks he runs better behind a FB, yet we won't use that formation more than twice a game. We run the bunch formation behind a poor pass-blocking OL knowing that 2 out of 3 WR's are running long routes. On any lesser team, BA would be lucky to hold an assistant's job. But the heroics of one Ben Roethlisberger and the No. 1 defense in the land make him look like he knows what he is doing.


Logic in excess.

buckeyehoppy
02-09-2009, 01:11 AM
I hear you but it's pretty strange to say the OC of the SB winning team who won on a late TD drive needs to show vast improvement...
What results do you want after winning a SB with the hardest schedule ever?

I expect better results but you have to look at our offensive history with Ben as well. As great as Ben is... he can also turn a blowout into a close game with untimely INT's.

I'm not saying Ben is the reason but when we had a TD skid.. Lefty came in and we scored in 3 minutes.... Ben was hurt.. it happens.

I expect us to improve some on offense but not top 5 or even top ten.
..and you know what? I prefer it that way. Pittsburgh will always be defense first and it should be..

How many offensive juggernauts went deep in the playoffs this year? Arians is getting the brunt of the bashing when execution is 70% of the problem...

No, I hear ya, Dizz. And yes, it was a helluvan accomplishment to man up at the Moment of Truth.

But, what does BA do for an encore? Is he a one trick pony with a game plan that is in need of some more diversity, lest it become too predictable?

The execution is a concern. BA's game plan is one thing. But he can't play for them, too. I think much of the locus of that problem lies at the feet of the OL. It's a big part of the reason the OL must be addressed via as many avenues as possible: trade, FA, draft.

Chadman
02-09-2009, 01:45 AM
With a team ranked 22nd overall in total offense, the onus is with the OC to prove to the team that he can handle the job, not the other way around.

Translation: Ariens job is NOT secure if he doesn't show improvement next season.

Sure, the Steelers need to get some players on O to make that happen...especially at OL. But the OC needs to use the guys he has as efficiently as possible. IOW, he needs to tailor the O to suit them before he goes with his default O. So far, BA isn't fooling anybody in that regard. His offense is very vanilla and predictable. It probably explains the O's overall #s.

For those that are defending BA, that's great...your mock drafts better reflect the team's need to shore up the OL (another aspect of the team that isn't fooling anybody). I would figure you would seek OL players with EACH of the first two players drafted, which, BTW, wouldn't be a bad way to go.

But that where the excusing of BA's game planning ends. If he has all the tools he needs, then he'd better produce results. The Steelers have a golden opportunity with the schedule they play next year to set themselves up for a repeat performance in the SB. It's not an exaggeration. But BA's O needs to improve and take some of the pressure to perform off the D so they don't have to be called on to limit teams to single digits in scoring every time the O doesn't produce.

Could not agree more.

Chadman is in the "Keep Arians" camp- so while we might disagree, your points on Arians are right on the money.

When we say the OL needs improving- we should break that down a little better.

Pass Blocking- the OG positions & RT position are weak in pass blocking (although Stats show Colon wasn't THAT bad actually..). Colon & Starks problem's in pass blocking come from the edge. Starks is better than Colon at keeping speedy DE's & LB's away from QB from the outside (maybe simply because he is just SO big?). Colon is actually ok if he gets his hands on the defender, but if he has to slide- trouble brews. Colon should move INSIDE, shoring up one OG position. A RT can be added in FA (Stinchcomb?) or the draft (Chadman likes Loadholt despite others saying he's like Max Starks). That leaves one OG position to shore up- enter Kendall Simmons & a mid-round rookie (Or Doug Legursky?). Once Ben went to more 3 step draps, the pass protection improved.

Run Blocking- This is the bigger problem. There is NO push up the middle. Zero. Nada. None. The interior OL- Hartwig, Stapleton & Kemo, were not 'powering' holes for Parker to get through. Kemo is considered a 'powerful' blocker, but really, if that was the case, surely the Steelers could have converted more 3 & short behind him! Kemo was not powerful at all, Stapleton is a 'finesse' blocker & Hartwig looked to be trying to stick 15 thumbs in 40 holes in the dam to stop the leaks. Moving Colon, who is a powerful blocker (for reference- watch 'the safety' in the SB & watch Colon stonewall his man on the line- then watch those around him) to OG should help with the running game. Simmons returning should help somewhat too. Again, adding Loadholt to RT in the draft helps the running game too- big & very powerful.

So, the inclusion of one RT, the return of Simmons & the shuffle of Colon could be all the ingrediants needed to help give Arians the tools to work with.

AngryAsian
02-09-2009, 02:03 AM
I have to ask this question: Say our OL is shored up this offseason. We solidify our line via FA and the draft. We now are able to pass protect, do you think we have the receivers in place that can get the seperation to run the type of plays BA loves to call. And if you can say yes to that question, do you think Ben has the arm to get the ball their. How many long balls (40+) were under thrown this year? How many actually got to the receivers. I don't think the long ball is Ben's strength. He doesn't have the natural mechanics to heave the ball like say, Peyton Manning or even Flacco can throw. This IMO, is where BA's thinking is flawed. He continues to try and run an offense based on his "style" as opposed to strength of his players. We have the best blocking WRs in the game, but how many screens to do we run or short pass plays out to the flat? Just my two yen.

Chadman
02-09-2009, 02:27 AM
I have to ask this question: Say our OL is shored up this offseason. We solidify our line via FA and the draft. We now are able to pass protect, do you think we have the receivers in place that can get the seperation to run the type of plays BA loves to call. And if you can say yes to that question, do you think Ben has the arm to get the ball their. How many long balls (40+) were under thrown this year? How many actually got to the receivers. I don't think the long ball is Ben's strength. He doesn't have the natural mechanics to heave the ball like say, Peyton Manning or even Flacco can throw. This IMO, is where BA's thinking is flawed. He continues to try and run an offense based on his "style" as opposed to strength of his players. We have the best blocking WRs in the game, but how many screens to do we run or short pass plays out to the flat? Just my two yen.

If Arians can get good enough run blocking from the OL to make the Steelers running game it's 'staple' & drag the SS up to the line, then yes, Chadman believes that the Steelers WR's can get deep enough for the Arians deep attack to work.

Screens will work better if the blocking is better & the right personnel are used- Moore & Mendenhall are better options than Parker on the screen. This is certainly one failing with Arians- using Parker on screens is close to a wasted play. That said- if Moore & Mendenhall are shipped out on passing downs only- this is a big sign as to what the Steelers intend to do. If Mendenhall can become the everydown back, then Arians screens should work nicely, as teams won't be able to key on just run or pass.

And as for Ben's arm strength- if used correctly, it can be very effective. It's not like he is weak. But in the end, the deep pass should be the shock weapon. Getting the ball in the deep WR's hands isn't the only indicator of the play working. If the deep WR can drag 1 or 2 defenders deep, it opens up the holes in the middle, where Arians 2-TE set should be able to take advantage- mid range passes to Miller & Speath. Holmes & Sweed are good enough 'deep threats' to open up the middle or short passing lanes.

But that will only work if the 5 in front can hold the pass pro long enough.

And if the running game can be effective enough to commit the SS at least part of the time.

Oviedo
02-09-2009, 08:58 AM
I have to ask this question: Say our OL is shored up this offseason. We solidify our line via FA and the draft. We now are able to pass protect, do you think we have the receivers in place that can get the seperation to run the type of plays BA loves to call. And if you can say yes to that question, do you think Ben has the arm to get the ball their. How many long balls (40+) were under thrown this year? How many actually got to the receivers. I don't think the long ball is Ben's strength. He doesn't have the natural mechanics to heave the ball like say, Peyton Manning or even Flacco can throw. This IMO, is where BA's thinking is flawed. He continues to try and run an offense based on his "style" as opposed to strength of his players. We have the best blocking WRs in the game, but how many screens to do we run or short pass plays out to the flat? Just my two yen.

If Arians can get good enough run blocking from the OL to make the Steelers running game it's 'staple' & drag the SS up to the line, then yes, Chadman believes that the Steelers WR's can get deep enough for the Arians deep attack to work.

Screens will work better if the blocking is better & the right personnel are used- Moore & Mendenhall are better options than Parker on the screen. This is certainly one failing with Arians- using Parker on screens is close to a wasted play. That said- if Moore & Mendenhall are shipped out on passing downs only- this is a big sign as to what the Steelers intend to do. If Mendenhall can become the everydown back, then Arians screens should work nicely, as teams won't be able to key on just run or pass.

And as for Ben's arm strength- if used correctly, it can be very effective. It's not like he is weak. But in the end, the deep pass should be the shock weapon. Getting the ball in the deep WR's hands isn't the only indicator of the play working. If the deep WR can drag 1 or 2 defenders deep, it opens up the holes in the middle, where Arians 2-TE set should be able to take advantage- mid range passes to Miller & Speath. Holmes & Sweed are good enough 'deep threats' to open up the middle or short passing lanes.

But that will only work if the 5 in front can hold the pass pro long enough.

And if the running game can be effective enough to commit the SS at least part of the time.

Exactly what I have been saying. You need Holmes and Sweed to open gaps and most of Ben's throws need to be short to mid range with only an occasional deep pass. IMO Ben is not a good deep ball thrower because well over half his deep balls appear short and the receivers must come back and make adjustments.

My biggest disappointment with Arians was I expected to see alot more passes to TEs. We are wasting two very good pass catching TEs in Miller and Spaeth. Throw more to them and you will help the running game because you will get LBs turning and running after the TEs versus committing to run blitzes which is why our OL was getting blown up.

BURGH86STEEL
02-09-2009, 09:44 AM
I have to ask this question: Say our OL is shored up this offseason. We solidify our line via FA and the draft. We now are able to pass protect, do you think we have the receivers in place that can get the seperation to run the type of plays BA loves to call. And if you can say yes to that question, do you think Ben has the arm to get the ball their. How many long balls (40+) were under thrown this year? How many actually got to the receivers. I don't think the long ball is Ben's strength. He doesn't have the natural mechanics to heave the ball like say, Peyton Manning or even Flacco can throw. This IMO, is where BA's thinking is flawed. He continues to try and run an offense based on his "style" as opposed to strength of his players. We have the best blocking WRs in the game, but how many screens to do we run or short pass plays out to the flat? Just my two yen.

The WRs have to get separation no matter who runs the offense. That is not OC specific. One of Ben's problems, he is not always willing to throw with anticipation. It is one reason why there are times he holds the ball too long. One problem with Ben's long ball is timing. He has shown the ability to get the ball there but the timing is off. It is something he needs to work on to get better. It should not stop the OC from calling deep passes. If Ben cannot make every throw, what are his strengths? What was the strength of the Oline this past season? They ran several short passes & screens out in the flat this year. Some of those plays were successful and some were not. How many teams run short passes & the WR screen as a staple in the offense? It is only a matter of time before some DB sits on those routes and is taking one 6 the other way. Then we will have to hear people complain about how much they hate that play. There are several fans that hate the WR screen.

Slapstick
02-09-2009, 10:45 AM
The #1 reason that Arians will stay:

As Nate Washington pointed out in the media week before the Super Bowl, he puts the ball in Ben's hands...period...

Also, Ben did underthorw a lot of long passes this year...but, if you think his AC joint is totally healed, you are crazy...it won't fully heal until we're deep into the offseason...it takes more than a week off here and there to get it back to 100%...good enough to play and even to play well isn't the same as 100%...with his shoulder at 100%, Ben threw 32 TDs...

pfelix73
02-09-2009, 11:00 AM
I expect better results inside the 5 yard line. The play-calling inside the 5 yard line is average at best and the execution is average too.

Re-watched the SB again and getting 6 downs inside the 5 to score a TD in the 3rd and having to settle for another FG is ridiculous.

AngryAsian
02-09-2009, 11:04 AM
I expect better results inside the 5 yard line. The play-calling inside the 5 yard line is average at best and the execution is average too.

Re-watched the SB again and getting 6 downs inside the 5 to score a TD in the 3rd and having to settle for another FG is ridiculous.


Absolutely agree.

papillon
02-09-2009, 11:30 AM
The Steelers were fortunate that settling for field goals instead of getting TDs didn't bite them in the Superbowl. The #1 rated defense had an off day (by their standards) and leaving points on the field should have cost the Steelers the Superbowl. Only, and I repeat only, because, Ben pulled his Houdini (now you see me, now you don't) act did the Steelers win the game. The score of the game should have been 28-7 when it was 20-7 or at the very worst 24-7. The Steelers were fortunate to win, IMO. When you have a chance to put a team away, you should do it and the Steelers were dreadful all year in this phase of the game.

The defense was so dominating this season that the offensive woes of this team never cost them an important game and that's a tribute to Ben Roethlisberger. Believing that the offense can continue to routinely leave 10-14 points on the field because of failure to score TDs inside the 10 yard yard line is folly.

The defensive line held up this year, next year they will all be a year older. Deshea will be a year older and Mcfadden may be gone. Larry Foote may take his two SB rings and depart for his hometown or another team that is willing to pay for him.

Pappy

pfelix73
02-09-2009, 01:28 PM
Let's take that 3rd Quarter debacle that I was talking about earlier. Did anyone notice that there were 2 passes out of those 6 plays and neither one of them were actually into the endzone. The one Miller dropped and the other was supposedly to Carey Davis and that one was almost picked off and could've easily been returned the other way for a Cards TD. The other 4 were runs including a QB draw that got no where fast thanks to Kemo and his blocking.

Now on the flip side, when the chips are down and the game is on the line, they throw into the EZ to Holmes twice in each of the corners and the second one was the game winner as we all know.

It just seems like Arians tries to get too 'cute' down there sometimes with his play-calling. And I really wonder if those calls towards the end of game were really Ben's calls and not BA's. Holmes was the 3rd read there....It was up to Ben on that.

Hey Whiz, we have an OC that you can have now that yours flew the coop....

Use the same offense- Let Anderson call the game.

feltdizz
02-09-2009, 01:44 PM
I remember a clip where Tomlin looks over at BA and another coach while they are talking and sarcastically says....."how about we score a TD on this play? How about that?"

I think Tomlin and Ben like BA and like his philosophy offensively... but I think they revamp our O a little and let Ben do what he does best in the red zone.

Oviedo
02-09-2009, 08:10 PM
I remember a clip where Tomlin looks over at BA and another coach while they are talking and sarcastically says....."how about we score a TD on this play? How about that?"

I think Tomlin and Ben like BA and like his philosophy offensively... but I think they revamp our O a little and let Ben do what he does best in the red zone.

Upgrade the OL and you upgrade the entire offense. Look at how the running game was clicking in the early games when Marvel and Simmons were healthy. It all starts with the OL not a FB. Parker was getting 100 yard games last year and the first couple games this year without a FB.

Steeler Shades
02-09-2009, 08:25 PM
Are there any offenses or defenses that wouldn't be better with better players? Coaches have to get the best they can from the players they have. Better coaches can do better with less than poor coaches. 8)

Slapstick
02-10-2009, 10:32 AM
Yeah! Some Offensive Coordinators could win a Super Bowl with the players that the Steelers have...

WoodleyofTroy
02-10-2009, 02:21 PM
If the Steelers got an Offensive genius, wouldn't that clash with Ben's ego? I think having Arians, Ben feels more at ease, knowing that he plays just as much of a role than his own Coach does. I think it's just one of those things we're always going to have to deal with having Roethlisberger at QB.

I mean, Whisenhunt was good, but he wasn't great, and Ben still couldnt' get along with him. It's like he didn't feel in control.

So as much as I hate Arians, I've learned to deal with those frustrations. Maybe next year when he still continues to call running plays against top run defenses and **** secondaries, our RB's will make him look good by default, i.e. Jerome Bettis in his prime making OC's into head coaching candidates.

feltdizz
02-10-2009, 02:28 PM
If the Steelers got an Offensive genius, wouldn't that clash with Ben's ego? I think having Arians, Ben feels more at ease, knowing that he plays just as much of a role than his own Coach does. I think it's just one of those things we're always going to have to deal with having Roethlisberger at QB.

I mean, Whisenhunt was good, but he wasn't great, and Ben still couldnt' get along with him. It's like he didn't feel in control.

So as much as I hate Arians, I've learned to deal with those frustrations. Maybe next year when he still continues to call running plays against top run defenses and bad word secondaries, our RB's will make him look good by default, i.e. Jerome Bettis in his prime making OC's into head coaching candidates.

:Beer great call... We all remember Whiz and Ben butting heads... yet those 2 had great success. Ben is the type of guy who needs to have more power then the OC.. and deservedly so... but there are a lot of coaches who can't operate like that.

I think Ben needs to able to do what he does without the HC and OC screaming down his throat when it doesn't work. Now even I said they needed to yell at Ben when he was hurt and killing us during our 2 game skid. But I'm just a fan. I bet if I was on the sideline watching the game at full speed I would have a greater appreciation then I already do for what Ben does.

Steeler Shades
02-10-2009, 03:20 PM
Yeah! Some Offensive Coordinators could win a Super Bowl with the players that the Steelers have...
Yeah! And some teams are able to win SBs with worse offensive talent than the Steelers currently have..... I'm thinking that defense and STs might also contribute to winning and overcoming poor OCs. .8)

Northern_Blitz
02-10-2009, 03:59 PM
Let's take that 3rd Quarter debacle that I was talking about earlier. Did anyone notice that there were 2 passes out of those 6 plays and neither one of them were actually into the endzone. The one Miller dropped and the other was supposedly to Carey Davis and that one was almost picked off and could've easily been returned the other way for a Cards TD. The other 4 were runs including a QB draw that got no where fast thanks to Kemo and his blocking.

Now on the flip side, when the chips are down and the game is on the line, they throw into the EZ to Holmes twice in each of the corners and the second one was the game winner as we all know.

It just seems like Arians tries to get too 'cute' down there sometimes with his play-calling. And I really wonder if those calls towards the end of game were really Ben's calls and not BA's. Holmes was the 3rd read there....It was up to Ben on that.

Hey Whiz, we have an OC that you can have now that yours flew the coop....

Use the same offense- Let Anderson call the game.

I don't think it's getting too cute.

I think the coaches realized that we were up by 13 points in the Superbowl. I think they realized that we had the best Defence in the league (top 5 all time?). I also think they realized that the Cards (like the Ravens) got as deep in the Playoffs as they did because they were averaging like 3 turn overs a game.

I think that the game plan in the third was to try to use up clock, to get a field goal or two if we could, and to not turn the ball over at all costs. Then on Defence, play a little softer. Who cares if they score, just make them use up clock. Without a great play on special teams, the hold on the saftey, and two outstanding TDs by Fitz this game plan works. The plan wasn't bad, the Cards just made 3 spectacular plays to get back into it.

Hats off to Warner and Fitz (and Boldin), but Ben and Holmes were the men of the hour.

Steeler Shades
02-10-2009, 04:34 PM
I think that the game plan in the third was to try to use up clock, to get a field goal or two if we could, and to not turn the ball over at all costs. Then on Defence, play a little softer. Who cares if they score, just make them use up clock.
During the Cowher years (back when we used to be able to run the ball) wasn't the above approach called "turtlling"? I'm not sure it works well when a team can't maintain possession by running the ball. But then that is just my observation, from Airens perspective the 2008 Steelers may have been a successful running team. 8)

eniparadoxgma
02-10-2009, 05:39 PM
Yeah! Some Offensive Coordinators could win a Super Bowl with the players that the Steelers have...

No way.

Btw, where ya been, Slappy?