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Iron Shiek
02-05-2009, 09:53 AM
Randy Cross on NFL Radio this morning addressed a caller who asked why Ben isn't considered elite or passed at least Manning in the pecking order. While doing so he brought up an interesting point, where he subsequently put Ben in that upper echelon by saying the following argument: The Brady-Manning-Big Ben argument is the modern day Montana-Marino-Elway debate. In my opinion, its interesting how similar the situations are...while Ben got his wins quicker than Elway...I'd say he is most like Elway...while Montana equates to Brady...although Brady's numbers are better. And Manning and Marino must be linked; even though Manning won his Super Bowl, he should have a few more with that team and has likely underachieved in a way that many people see Marino did.

Bob Papa ultimately said though that you put Manning on Pittsburgh and they are still winning Super Bowls. But the dummy failed to reverse that and discuss what their thoughts were on Ben going to Indy or Cheaterville...which is something I'd like to hear although I don't think I'd like what they said.


As a side note...Rivers is probably like Jim Everett...will put up numbers in a futile attempt to win a Super Bowl and never amount to anything. Eli? Well he got his early and really pretty much sucks in general, I'd say he is Mark Rypien? :D

Discipline of Steel
02-05-2009, 10:03 AM
and Lienart is Ryan Leaf :Binky

and Brady Quinn is Richard Simmons :brownssuck

proudpittsburgher
02-05-2009, 10:23 AM
His argument doesn't hold water. Manning is a great passer, but you put him behind Pittsburgh's offensive line, even in the good days, and he drops down in the fetal position more often than he completes passes. Not to mention that Manning has a supreme o-line and 2 potential hall of famers as wideouts, along with really good pass-catching, duel-threat running backs his entire career. So no, you put Peyton in Pittsburgh, and he doesn't win the Super Bowls. You put Ben in indy, and he turns into the 400-yard passing QB.

SidSmythe
02-05-2009, 10:35 AM
This I can say. BEN is the 2nd BEST QB in the NFL behind our O-Line. Peyton would probably make better play calls and protections than Ben could...I really do believe Peyton would get rid of the ball quickly.

steeler_fan_in_t.o.
02-05-2009, 11:02 AM
This I can say. BEN is the 2nd BEST QB in the NFL behind our O-Line. Peyton would probably make better play calls and protections than Ben could...I really do believe Peyton would get rid of the ball quickly.

I disagree double S. Manning can call all the blocking protection that he wants, but when the O line isn't much more than 5 guys from this board then he won't get that much more time out of it.

Also, what happens when you give Ben 8 games inside the climate controlled dome, plus one game each guaranteed in Florida, Texas, and Tennessee? The Steelers played a lot of games in awful weather this year, not exactly conducive to offensive explosions. And, to be fair, I believe that our D, as well as some others, benefit from this.

IMO, the QBs who could play behind our line are the ones who can move like Ben. Brady has that type of ability, not to scramble but to slide into openings. IMO Manning falls flat in this O.

stlrz d
02-05-2009, 11:05 AM
I don't believe either Manning or Brady would have the same success as Ben behind this line. Ben does a LOT more than just move.

Now you put Peyton behind the O lines NoD played behind and we're going for our 8th or 9th ring by now.

RuthlessBurgher
02-05-2009, 11:29 AM
The Montana, Marino, Elway comparison for Brady, P. Manning, and Roethlisberger certainly feels right. It is interesting that of those 3 guys, I always tended to prefer Elway as a QB back in the day, even though Ben was still in elementary school at the time, so I had no idea that our future multiple Super Bowl winning QB would be more like an Elway than a Montana or Marino.

Discipline of Steel
02-05-2009, 11:32 AM
The Montana, Marino, Elway comparison for Brady, P. Manning, and Roethlisberger certainly feels right. It is interesting that of those 3 guys, I always tended to prefer Elway as a QB back in the day, even though Ben was still in elementary school at the time, so I had no idea that our future multiple Super Bowl winning QB would be more like an Elway than a Montana or Marino.

I never liked Elway. He had too much arrogance.

grotonsteel
02-05-2009, 11:57 AM
This I can say. BEN is the 2nd BEST QB in the NFL behind our O-Line. Peyton would probably make better play calls and protections than Ben could...I really do believe Peyton would get rid of the ball quickly.

I disagree double S. Manning can call all the blocking protection that he wants, but when the O line isn't much more than 5 guys from this board then he won't get that much more time out of it.

Also, what happens when you give Ben 8 games inside the climate controlled dome, plus one game each guaranteed in Florida, Texas, and Tennessee? The Steelers played a lot of games in awful weather this year, not exactly conducive to offensive explosions. And, to be fair, I believe that our D, as well as some others, benefit from this.

IMO, the QBs who could play behind our line are the ones who can move like Ben. Brady has that type of ability, not to scramble but to slide into openings. IMO Manning falls flat in this O.


Excellent Post..... :Agree

steeld95
02-05-2009, 02:25 PM
Manning would not survive in our O. The way to beat Manning is to pressure him. He can't escape it. Look at our playoff game with him a few years ago. We got constant pressure on him.

Another thing...I don't believe Manning would have made it through the year healthy if he played behind our line. I don't think he has the toughness to contantly takes hits like Ben does. I think he would spend alot of time on the sidelines due to injury if he played on our offense.

feltdizz
02-05-2009, 02:39 PM
Manning would put up crazy numbers.. but once the post season starts he would turn into Neil O'Donnell in the SB... he is a shook one.

Manning is the white McNabb LOL!!! great stats but when it's time to win the big one he falls short.. imagine if the Eagles committed to the run a little more like Peyton finally did? Eagles would have at least one SB....

funny thing about Philly.... WIP said our win was just ehh.. and if we played the Eagles we would have lost because of our first meeting... finally someone called up and said look at the Eagles first meeting with AZ? How did that work out?

stlrz d
02-05-2009, 03:37 PM
I disagree. Manning would have been killed behind our line.

And I don't think they would have been to willing to block for a guy who was always bitching at them.

Imo, Manning is one of those co-workers who makes you feel like you are working and that's it.

Ben seems like he's the "yeah we're working, but this is supposed to be fun too" types.

Who would you rather line up with?

feltdizz
02-05-2009, 05:31 PM
we would all take Ben over Manning.. anyone who doesn't is a fool or a FF addict.

but Manning can throw the rock... so he would have success.

You guys have to remember half of Ben's sacks are incompletions or dump offs with Manning. Ben holds the ball and makes things happen. Manning bails out early....

the problem with Manning is when he has to throw on the run he can't. People keep saying other QB's would be killed.... which is true.. but most respect the clock in their head and get the ball out.

some act like no other QB can slide to the right or left... all of them do but Ben likes to break the pocket so it looks like he is running for his life half the time when he is just doing what he does best....

BURGH86STEEL
02-05-2009, 10:00 PM
IMO, Manning and Brady are the best QBs in the league. Manning and Brady may not take the sacks that Ben takes but they do take the hits. Why do you think both players were injured? They stand tall in the pocket and take the hits. They take less sacks because they make quicker decisions with the football.

You can throw a number of QBs in behind Manning and Brady. Ben, Brees, Mcnabb, Warner, Rivers, and Eli would probably fall into the next tier.

Ben still has areas of his game he needs to work on to reach the level of Brady or Manning. He may never be that type of passer. Time will tell. Ben helps the Steelers win games and that is what matters.

ray
02-05-2009, 10:15 PM
The subject of who is the best active QB is totally subjective. If you go by stats alone Manning would be #1 and Ben wouldn't even make the top 5. If you go by the number of championships they have Ben is #2. IMO the only stats a QB should be judged by is the number of wins and championships they have produced. I know there will be those who disagree with me and that is fine, it's just my take on it.

Flasteel
02-05-2009, 11:26 PM
This I can say. BEN is the 2nd BEST QB in the NFL behind our O-Line. Peyton would probably make better play calls and protections than Ben could...I really do believe Peyton would get rid of the ball quickly.

Kind of like he did in 2005 with Joey Porter bearing down on him?

MeetJoeGreene
02-05-2009, 11:31 PM
This I can say. BEN is the 2nd BEST QB in the NFL behind our O-Line. Peyton would probably make better play calls and protections than Ben could...I really do believe Peyton would get rid of the ball quickly.

Kind of like he did in 2005 with Joey Porter bearing down on him?

The biggest thing that would instantly make Brady or Manning better if they were a Steeler --- they wouldn't have to face the Steeler defense in a game. :D

Flasteel
02-05-2009, 11:36 PM
This I can say. BEN is the 2nd BEST QB in the NFL behind our O-Line. Peyton would probably make better play calls and protections than Ben could...I really do believe Peyton would get rid of the ball quickly.

Kind of like he did in 2005 with Joey Porter bearing down on him?

The biggest thing that would instantly make Brady or Manning better if they were a Steeler --- they wouldn't have to face the Steeler defense in a game. :D

Touche'

Chadman
02-05-2009, 11:40 PM
Everyone on here loves a 2 time SB winning QB, particularly when he plays for the team you support.

But to think Brady & Payton wouldn't have GREAT success here is a bit silly.

Sure- they don't move like Ben, but chances are, the ball is out of their hands far quicker than Ben's. We have ALL lamented the time it takes Ben to decide on who to throw to. Neither Brady or Manning have that 'problem'.

Sure- it's all 'opinion', but history would show that both Brady & Manning are able to deal with all kinds of defenses, and it's not like Manning is surrounded with superstar OL is it?

Chadman's theory- all 3 would succeed in Pittsburgh for different reasons.

stlrz d
02-06-2009, 01:37 AM
Everyone on here loves a 2 time SB winning QB, particularly when he plays for the team you support.

But to think Brady & Payton wouldn't have GREAT success here is a bit silly.

Sure- they don't move like Ben, but chances are, the ball is out of their hands far quicker than Ben's. We have ALL lamented the time it takes Ben to decide on who to throw to. Neither Brady or Manning have that 'problem'.

Sure- it's all 'opinion', but history would show that both Brady & Manning are able to deal with all kinds of defenses, and it's not like Manning is surrounded with superstar OL is it?

Chadman's theory- all 3 would succeed in Pittsburgh for different reasons.

Peyton didn't do so hot when Jeff Saturday was out.

Chadman
02-06-2009, 01:47 AM
Everyone on here loves a 2 time SB winning QB, particularly when he plays for the team you support.

But to think Brady & Payton wouldn't have GREAT success here is a bit silly.

Sure- they don't move like Ben, but chances are, the ball is out of their hands far quicker than Ben's. We have ALL lamented the time it takes Ben to decide on who to throw to. Neither Brady or Manning have that 'problem'.

Sure- it's all 'opinion', but history would show that both Brady & Manning are able to deal with all kinds of defenses, and it's not like Manning is surrounded with superstar OL is it?

Chadman's theory- all 3 would succeed in Pittsburgh for different reasons.

Peyton didn't do so hot when Jeff Saturday was out.

Ahh, who is Chadman kidding?

Obviously Manning & Brady could never live up to what Ben does.

:moon

Captain Lemming
02-06-2009, 12:21 PM
Brady and Manning would have success here.
Our Oline is bad, but the SB win does not negate the fact that Bens style can make it look worse.

We done have to guess. We saw an immoble QB with our line. Leftwich
When Leftwich came in for long stints, the fact that he does not try to extend plays made the line "look" better. And Leftwich has a notoriously slow release.

I am not saying Brady and Mannings styles are "better" just different.

Ben makes plays the others simply cannot make, by extending plays. Great. That same style can hurt his effectiveness at times, like the 1st game where Leftwich came in.

Where Ben is head and shoulders above Manning has nothing to do with playing style.

Manning is, and always will be a big game choke machine. Amazingly his defense gave his only SB victory. His play did not get them there.
Manning would put up "numbers" as a Steeler, but Manning would have lost this SB.

Ben like Bradshaw is big game clutch. THAT is why I am glad he is our QB.