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View Full Version : Why is Warner now a HOF lock...



Steel Life
02-02-2009, 12:14 PM
...& Demontti Dawson isn't?

Granted Warner is a good guy & has thrown for a lot of yards, but he's lost more SB's than he's won, he disappeared for a few years & isn't he the poster child of the pass-happy stat padding that skews his value?

Iron Shiek
02-02-2009, 12:17 PM
Yeah I'm not trying to be a hater but Warner isn't a HOF'er. I said this before the SuperBowl. Peter King puts it best. He says that Warner had 5 good years in total that were wrapped around 5 or so completely awful years. How does that make you a HOFer. You have to have sustained excellence in my mind. How can a player disappear for HALF his career and people think he is a HOFer.

NO WAY.

SidSmythe
02-02-2009, 12:37 PM
Yeah I'm not trying to be a hater but Warner isn't a HOF'er. I said this before the SuperBowl. Peter King puts it best. He says that Warner had 5 good years in total that were wrapped around 5 or so completely awful years. How does that make you a HOFer. You have to have sustained excellence in my mind. How can a player disappear for HALF his career and people think he is a HOFer.

NO WAY.

That's a good point.

Steel Life
02-02-2009, 12:40 PM
Won't anyone else point out that it's easy throw for a lot of yards when you have no running game & you're playing from behind? Everybody's forgetting that & the 5 lame years...in the meantime Ben continues to be under-appreciated.

Sugar
02-02-2009, 12:42 PM
OK, but the guy is probably about three total minutes combined from being a three-time Super Bowl winner and probably MVP.

Steel Life
02-02-2009, 12:43 PM
OK, but the guy is probably about three total minutes combined from being a three-time Super Bowl winner and probably MVP.
But yet not.

feltdizz
02-02-2009, 12:44 PM
Yeah I'm not trying to be a hater but Warner isn't a HOF'er. I said this before the SuperBowl. Peter King puts it best. He says that Warner had 5 good years in total that were wrapped around 5 or so completely awful years. How does that make you a HOFer. You have to have sustained excellence in my mind. How can a player disappear for HALF his career and people think he is a HOFer.

NO WAY.

it's how you finish... and taking AZ to the SB is HOF in my book. He turned around 2 NFL franchises that were jokes.... and has thrown for a ridiculous amount of yards.

feltdizz
02-02-2009, 12:46 PM
Won't anyone else point out that it's easy throw for a lot of yards when you have no running game & you're playing from behind? Everybody's forgetting that & the 5 lame years...in the meantime Ben continues to be under-appreciated.

no it is not. It's actually harder to do.. the D knows you are throwing and still they can't stop it. No one is forgetting Ben. Warner is about to retire so the HOF debate is starting. Ben is a lock for Canton.

snarky
02-02-2009, 01:29 PM
Warner = Fantasy Football QB
Ben = Reality Football QB

Sugar
02-02-2009, 01:32 PM
Yeah I'm not trying to be a hater but Warner isn't a HOF'er. I said this before the SuperBowl. Peter King puts it best. He says that Warner had 5 good years in total that were wrapped around 5 or so completely awful years. How does that make you a HOFer. You have to have sustained excellence in my mind. How can a player disappear for HALF his career and people think he is a HOFer.

NO WAY.

it's how you finish... and taking AZ to the SB is HOF in my book. He turned around 2 NFL franchises that were jokes.... and has thrown for a ridiculous amount of yards.

Word- that and the fact that the guy was injured quite a bit in his "off" years. When he was healthy and given a chance to compete, the guy made the most of it.

feltdizz
02-02-2009, 01:49 PM
Warner = Fantasy Football QB
Ben = Reality Football QB

no way... both of Warners losses in the SB were lost by the D. I could see if he choked but he put up great numbers and put his team in a position to win both times they lost.

Steelhere10
02-02-2009, 09:03 PM
me and my friends was debating today, to me no Warner is not a HOF because of the years he was 5+ that he was below average. if Boomer Esiason or Randall Cunningham is not why is Kurt their numbers are better the only difference is 1 SB win

NorCal-Steeler
02-02-2009, 09:10 PM
If the losers of the Bills 4 superbowls get in why not Kurt? A lock no ,nor first round ballot but his 400 yrd games alone sets him apart.

Steel Life
02-03-2009, 01:12 AM
Yeah I'm not trying to be a hater but Warner isn't a HOF'er. I said this before the SuperBowl. Peter King puts it best. He says that Warner had 5 good years in total that were wrapped around 5 or so completely awful years. How does that make you a HOFer. You have to have sustained excellence in my mind. How can a player disappear for HALF his career and people think he is a HOFer.

NO WAY.

it's how you finish... and taking AZ to the SB is HOF in my book. He turned around 2 NFL franchises that were jokes.... and has thrown for a ridiculous amount of yards.

Word- that and the fact that the guy was injured quite a bit in his "off" years. When he was healthy and given a chance to compete, the guy made the most of it.
So using that logic, you're putting Terrell Davis in the HOF too...

Look - those bad years happened injury or not. He was given a chance in NY & he flubbed it, & was on his way to doing the same thing in AZ before catching fire again. Injuries happen & derail HOF talent, that's just the way it is - you don't give them a pass, they have to earn it.

SteelerOfDeVille
02-03-2009, 01:26 AM
cuz he took the friggin' CARDINALS to the SUPER BOWL...

who'da thunk it...

top 3 passing games in SB HISTORY...

Broke marino's single season passing record (which i think manning later broke)...

he's a lock.

northgate1980
02-03-2009, 01:56 AM
cuz he took the friggin' CARDINALS to the SUPER BOWL...

who'da thunk it...

top 3 passing games in SB HISTORY...

Broke marino's single season passing record (which i think manning later broke)...

he's a lock.

He took a joke of a franchise to the Super Bowl.(no disrespect to the Cards of this season) Not the first nor the last guy to do it. It also helps when you have the best threesome of wideouts in the league in a pass happy offense.

Top 3 passing games in SB history. Two of them were losses.

I might be wrong here, but I don't think he ever broke a Marino record.

If he leaves and takes another team to the SB(his contract is up in AZ and I hear the Bears are interested), I would say yes. But not now.

SteelerOfDeVille
02-03-2009, 02:21 AM
cuz he took the friggin' CARDINALS to the SUPER BOWL...

who'da thunk it...

top 3 passing games in SB HISTORY...

Broke marino's single season passing record (which i think manning later broke)...

he's a lock.

He took a joke of a franchise to the Super Bowl.(no disrespect to the Cards of this season) Not the first nor the last guy to do it. It also helps when you have the best threesome of wideouts in the league in a pass happy offense.

Top 3 passing games in SB history. Two of them were losses.

I might be wrong here, but I don't think he ever broke a Marino record.

If he leaves and takes another team to the SB(his contract is up in AZ and I hear the Bears are interested), I would say yes. But not now.
you're correct - he didn't break Marino's record - he played 11 games. his and trent green's yardage that year were over 400 more than marino's total. but, he didn't get 'em all. his best full season fell short by about 180 yards. He had 41 TDs that year, also 2nd only to Marino (at the time). Both Brady and Manning have sinced surpassed the TD totals.

Iron Shiek
02-03-2009, 10:30 AM
cuz he took the friggin' CARDINALS to the SUPER BOWL...

who'da thunk it...

top 3 passing games in SB HISTORY...

Broke marino's single season passing record (which i think manning later broke)...

he's a lock.

He took a joke of a franchise to the Super Bowl.(no disrespect to the Cards of this season) Not the first nor the last guy to do it. It also helps when you have the best threesome of wideouts in the league in a pass happy offense.

Top 3 passing games in SB history. Two of them were losses.

I might be wrong here, but I don't think he ever broke a Marino record.

If he leaves and takes another team to the SB(his contract is up in AZ and I hear the Bears are interested), I would say yes. But not now.


You guys are crazy...seriously. The old "joke of a franchise that is the Cards" has been heavily over emphasized this year and maybe last year too. This team has just stockpiled talent for the last 4 years. Kurt Warner didn't take this team to the Super Bowl. Whisenhunt coming in and changing the mentality of the entire team and franchise is what got them there. Coaching staff and gameplanning is what got them there. You give freakin Tavaris Jackson Fitz and Boldin and Breaston and he will put up great numbers (okay maybe that is taking it too far...but still). I won't diminsh Warner's great year. But why couldn't he do it in his "dark" years. Injured or not, I have a strong feeling sustained excellence is a major criteria...he doesn't have it in my mind.

feltdizz
02-03-2009, 01:14 PM
cuz he took the friggin' CARDINALS to the SUPER BOWL...

who'da thunk it...

top 3 passing games in SB HISTORY...

Broke marino's single season passing record (which i think manning later broke)...

he's a lock.

He took a joke of a franchise to the Super Bowl.(no disrespect to the Cards of this season) Not the first nor the last guy to do it. It also helps when you have the best threesome of wideouts in the league in a pass happy offense.

Top 3 passing games in SB history. Two of them were losses.

I might be wrong here, but I don't think he ever broke a Marino record.

If he leaves and takes another team to the SB(his contract is up in AZ and I hear the Bears are interested), I would say yes. But not now.


You guys are crazy...seriously. The old "joke of a franchise that is the Cards" has been heavily over emphasized this year and maybe last year too. This team has just stockpiled talent for the last 4 years. Kurt Warner didn't take this team to the Super Bowl. Whisenhunt coming in and changing the mentality of the entire team and franchise is what got them there. Coaching staff and gameplanning is what got them there. You give freakin Tavaris Jackson Fitz and Boldin and Breaston and he will put up great numbers (okay maybe that is taking it too far...but still). I won't diminsh Warner's great year. But why couldn't he do it in his "dark" years. Injured or not, I have a strong feeling sustained excellence is a major criteria...he doesn't have it in my mind.

how many times have the Lions drafted WR's and still looked like trash? You can try to spin it anyway you like but it's still the Cardinals...

and who wins in their dark years? He has been to 3 SB's... and both losses were in the last minute. You cannot blame Warner for the Rams and Cardinals woes on defense.

How the hell is Peyton Manning a lock with 1 SB but Warner.. who put up sick playoff and SB numbers isn't?

dude... the Cards have talent but they wouldn't have been here without Warner... I don't see how Warner putting up 400 yards on us and almost bringing them back to win shows he is just ehhh...

Cards won 2 playoff games in there history before this year I think.... what more do you need as proof?

Iron Shiek
02-03-2009, 01:21 PM
Just because the Lions picked WR's doesn't mean that they were any good. This Cards defense has talent all over it...something the Lions chose to ignore for...ohhh..about the last 15 years that Millen was there. Edge is a good rb...Lions haven't had that either. I'm not saying Leinart would've been able to take them to the playoffs, but the Cardinals have been the "sexy" darkhorse pick for the last 4 years. And the reason Peyton is a lock is because he hasn't had any "dark" years (granted he's flamed in playoffs, but getting 1 super bowl win to go with his years of constant success is enough to me).

I stand by it. The Hall of Fame is a career accomplishment, not a playoff or Super Bowl accomplishment. Your career includes the regular season. To ignore 5 useless years of someone's career is a major oversight in my opinion.

feltdizz
02-03-2009, 02:17 PM
Just because the Lions picked WR's doesn't mean that they were any good. This Cards defense has talent all over it...something the Lions chose to ignore for...ohhh..about the last 15 years that Millen was there. Edge is a good rb...Lions haven't had that either. I'm not saying Leinart would've been able to take them to the playoffs, but the Cardinals have been the "sexy" darkhorse pick for the last 4 years. And the reason Peyton is a lock is because he hasn't had any "dark" years (granted he's flamed in playoffs, but getting 1 super bowl win to go with his years of constant success is enough to me).

I stand by it. The Hall of Fame is a career accomplishment, not a playoff or Super Bowl accomplishment. Your career includes the regular season. To ignore 5 useless years of someone's career is a major oversight in my opinion.


not when you make it back to the SB with the Cards

Steel Life
02-03-2009, 10:23 PM
My response to those who keep repeating that he took the Cards to the Super Bowl as a reason for his HOF credentials...he was on the Cards last year too - with the same players & coaching staff & he didn't do it last year! The difference between last year & this year for the Cards - the defense got hot late in the season. What I want to know is...if the Cards play to the recent stat of Super Bowl losers not even making the playoffs, will you still think he's a lock or will his bad season taint him again?

feltdizz
02-04-2009, 02:45 PM
so a QB who went to 3 SB's and watched his team give up the game winning twice is now questioned about why he didn't get his team to a SB the year before?

That's like asking why Ben didn't get to the SB 3 of his 5 years...

I know what you are trying to say but it makes no sense. Anytime you get to 3 SB's and the last one was with the Cards you do not question why he didn't get there the other 4 or 5 years of his career. Especially when the guy is getting gray hair...

didn't Leinart start the season last year?

How do we or the NFL for that matter.. see Peyton Manning as some God when he chokes every post season? Players who perform on the big stages are the true HOF's.. sure you have a Barry Sanders who is stuck on the Lions who is a lock... but imagine if Barry had 4 down years but put up crazy playoff #'s 2 years and took the Lions to 2 SB's..

Steel Life
02-04-2009, 09:42 PM
Dizz - All I'm saying is that you can't just ignore the fact that HE SUCKED for almost 5 seasons & rarely plays a full season. You can't be that selective in someone's career & that's why the HOF has the 5 year "cooling off" period to allow for perspective to enter the picture. Right now he's getting all the love, but I'm telling you, if he comes back & stinks it up, all this love will disappear.

Now back to my original question - Why Warner & not Dawson?