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View Full Version : Remember rumors of "New Offense" before Ravens game?



SanAntonioSteelerFan
01-24-2009, 10:28 PM
All kinds of posts (Lolly started it?) about secret plays drawn up and practiced behind locked doors, new look offense, BA with buttons.

:wft

steelsun7
01-25-2009, 12:07 AM
All kinds of posts (Lolly started it?) about secret plays drawn up and practiced behind locked doors, new look offense, BA with buttons.

:wft
this is the main thing that worries me about this game. BA will not adjust

Flasteel
01-25-2009, 12:16 AM
Lolley was the only one I saw who mentioned anything about it, but I doubt he was making it up. It just goes to show you that Arians may know how to draw a play up, but he has absolutely no clue in how to incorporate anything new into his arsenal or be creative during a game. You can't tell me that the opportunity or need to do something to spark our offense didn't present itself against the Rats.

It really makes me wonder what the players and coaches think when they see this stuff in practice only to roll out the same old **** during games.

sd steel
01-25-2009, 12:44 AM
If you can't execute the plays you have why add new ones?

You guys keep on grilling the coordinator, but if you look to Lombardi and Noll, it is about changing plays and schemes, it's about perfecting the ones you run.

Mister Pittsburgh
01-25-2009, 01:31 AM
If you can't execute the plays you have why add new ones?

You guys keep on grilling the coordinator, but if you look to Lombardi and Noll, it is about changing plays and schemes, it's about perfecting the ones you run.

I don't think that is necessarily true. I don't care how much you practice it, running the ball on first and second down between the tackles against the Rats is not going to work, especially when you do it every freaking series.

Would be a nice surprise to incorporate some Dennis Dixon. Maybe line up at WR, have Ben bootleg and hand to Dixon on the reverse. Have Nate or Holmes go deep. If they aren't open then Dixon runs it.

Oviedo
01-25-2009, 10:56 AM
Don't you kinda get the impression that once we went up early that we knew the Ravens could not come back against our defense and maybe some "new" stuff they had been working on was kept under wraps.

Once we went up we became very conservative on offense. The Ravens only got close because of two pass interference calls or it would have been a blow out.

Maybe they were hiding some things they didn't want to use unless they had to.

stlrz d
01-25-2009, 11:28 AM
Don't you kinda get the impression that once we went up early that we knew the Ravens could not come back against our defense and maybe some "new" stuff they had been working on was kept under wraps.

Once we went up we became very conservative on offense. The Ravens only got close because of two pass interference calls or it would have been a blow out.

Maybe they were hiding some things they didn't want to use unless they had to.

I would agree with that. I will also speculate the plays in question had something to do with Hines throwing the ball. No Hines = no new plays, imo. Coupled with what Oviedo posted of course.

Flasteel
01-25-2009, 11:31 AM
Don't you kinda get the impression that once we went up early that we knew the Ravens could not come back against our defense and maybe some "new" stuff they had been working on was kept under wraps.

Once we went up we became very conservative on offense. The Ravens only got close because of two pass interference calls or it would have been a blow out.

Maybe they were hiding some things they didn't want to use unless they had to.

That's not a bad point O, but if you were feeling like I was, the game was anyone's for the taking until Polamalu's pick. I don't think you go/stay vanilla with a trip to the Suer Bowl on the line and the game in doubt. More than anything in that game it was the continuous runs between the guards that just showed no imagination. As a matter of fact, we sent Willie right up the gut on every first down in the second half. Chris Johnson was able get huge chunks on the perimeter and by my count we ran it once to outside edge and picked up 6 yards and another off RT that went for four...that's it.

buckeyehoppy
01-25-2009, 04:55 PM
If BA has anything new in the arsenal I would think a good time to try that out would be in this game, eh?

I mean, they won't have another meaningful game for another 7 months. If BA is holding back something, he might want to consider leaving everything on the table for this one. Win or lose, it's the last game of the season.

The Steelers, I think, would be well-advised to sprint out to a lead and keep a cleat on the Cards jugular. That won't happen sending FWP into the line on 1st and 2nd on every carry.

The time is now for BA to show us what he has. If I see the SOS in the SB, then I'll know that he doesn't have $hit!

SanAntonioSteelerFan
01-25-2009, 04:58 PM
If BA has anything new in the arsenal I would think a good time to try that out would be in this game, eh?

I mean, they won't have another meaningful game for another 7 months. If BA is holding back something, he might want to consider leaving everything on the table for this one. Win or lose, it's the last game of the season.

The Steelers, I think, would be well-advised to sprint out to a lead and keep a cleat on the Cards jugular. That won't happen sending FWP into the line on 1st and 2nd on every carry.

The time is now for BA to show us what he has. If I see the SOS in the SB, then I'll know that he doesn't have $hit!

Nice one, buckeye. IMO, if BA comes out with FLASH in the 1st quarter, we sprint out to a lead like you're describing, and we hold on to win, I'd say he deserves to stay. Otherwise, adios MF.

MeetJoeGreene
01-25-2009, 05:05 PM
It still would have been good to show something in the Baltimore game just to give the Cards something to think about/prep for.

buckeyehoppy
01-25-2009, 05:10 PM
If BA has anything new in the arsenal I would think a good time to try that out would be in this game, eh?

I mean, they won't have another meaningful game for another 7 months. If BA is holding back something, he might want to consider leaving everything on the table for this one. Win or lose, it's the last game of the season.

The Steelers, I think, would be well-advised to sprint out to a lead and keep a cleat on the Cards jugular. That won't happen sending FWP into the line on 1st and 2nd on every carry.

The time is now for BA to show us what he has. If I see the SOS in the SB, then I'll know that he doesn't have $hit!

Nice one, buckeye. IMO, if BA comes out with FLASH in the 1st quarter, we sprint out to a lead like you're describing, and we hold on to win, I'd say he deserves to stay. Otherwise, adios MF.

Alas, I think we're stuck with BA for at least another year. Sucks to say that, but I'm afraid it's true. That said, this BA needs to start showing me something. If not in the SB, then when? This MFer needs to get it together and show us a game plan we haven't seen. If he can do that successfully, then I guess I can swallow hard on him being around next season when Lombardi #6 has been obtained.

buckeyehoppy
01-25-2009, 05:12 PM
It still would have been good to show something in the Baltimore game just to give the Cards something to think about/prep for.

Ya can't prepare for what you haven't learned. If BA has a card that he hasn't played then it works to our advantage if he plays it and it works. No better time to do it than Sunday next.

Chavezz
01-25-2009, 06:31 PM
Don't you kinda get the impression that once we went up early that we knew the Ravens could not come back against our defense and maybe some "new" stuff they had been working on was kept under wraps.

Once we went up we became very conservative on offense. The Ravens only got close because of two pass interference calls or it would have been a blow out.

Maybe they were hiding some things they didn't want to use unless they had to.

That's not a bad point O, but if you were feeling like I was, the game was anyone's for the taking until Polamalu's pick. I don't think you go/stay vanilla with a trip to the Suer Bowl on the line and the game in doubt. More than anything in that game it was the continuous runs between the guards that just showed no imagination. As a matter of fact, we sent Willie right up the gut on every first down in the second half. Chris Johnson was able get huge chunks on the perimeter and by my count we ran it once to outside edge and picked up 6 yards and another off RT that went for four...that's it.

Is it not just sickening to see Parker ran up the gut run play after run play? How stupid can you be? IT DOESN'T WORK! GET HIM OUT ON THE EDGE!

Why can we see this? Or is there something going on that we as fans aren't seeing that may prevent it from being successful? Which can't be the case because when he does get outside it WORKS!

I'm starting to get angry.

AngryAsian
01-25-2009, 06:58 PM
Don't you kinda get the impression that once we went up early that we knew the Ravens could not come back against our defense and maybe some "new" stuff they had been working on was kept under wraps.

Once we went up we became very conservative on offense. The Ravens only got close because of two pass interference calls or it would have been a blow out.

Maybe they were hiding some things they didn't want to use unless they had to.

That's not a bad point O, but if you were feeling like I was, the game was anyone's for the taking until Polamalu's pick. I don't think you go/stay vanilla with a trip to the Suer Bowl on the line and the game in doubt. More than anything in that game it was the continuous runs between the guards that just showed no imagination. As a matter of fact, we sent Willie right up the gut on every first down in the second half. Chris Johnson was able get huge chunks on the perimeter and by my count we ran it once to outside edge and picked up 6 yards and another off RT that went for four...that's it.

Is it not just sickening to see Parker ran up the gut run play after run play? How stupid can you be? IT DOESN'T WORK! GET HIM OUT ON THE EDGE!

Why can we see this? Or is there something going on that we as fans aren't seeing that may prevent it from being successful? Which can't be the case because when he does get outside it WORKS!

I'm starting to get angry.


Chavezz.... copy paste this to your signature. I'm tired of seeing that photobucket icon.

http://www.planetsteelers.com/cpg1416/a ... ics/cv.jpg (http://www.planetsteelers.com/cpg1416/albums/userpics/cv.jpg)

Chavezz
01-25-2009, 07:24 PM
I'm lazy I know.

LOL

Chavezz
01-25-2009, 07:26 PM
Where did that go anyway? That is an awesome sig, I know I've told you before but it really is...

sd steel
01-25-2009, 09:04 PM
[quote="sd steel":23m6negt]If you can't execute the plays you have why add new ones?

You guys keep on grilling the coordinator, but if you look to Lombardi and Noll, it is not about changing plays and schemes, it's about perfecting the ones you run.

I don't think that is necessarily true. I don't care how much you practice it, running the ball on first and second down between the tackles against the Rats is not going to work, especially when you do it every freaking series.

Would be a nice surprise to incorporate some Dennis Dixon. Maybe line up at WR, have Ben bootleg and hand to Dixon on the reverse. Have Nate or Holmes go deep. If they aren't open then Dixon runs it.[/quote:23m6negt]

Well if you don't think it's true then you're wrong. If you really want to be successful in football it's not about trickery and changing schemes, it's about beating the man in front of you. The game comes down to the fundamentals of who blocks and tackles better. Our present offense has done a good enough job to win 14 out of 18 games and is playing in the world championship. To continue to call for Arians head is stupid, and shows how much most average fans know about football.

As far as the comments about running up the middle on first and second down only to be stopped over and over, you guys sound like my Mom watching a football game, "why doesn't the guy just run around the pile?" A brilliant observation, but it's because she can't see the big picture. If we gain yardage on those plays then we will impose our will on the other team, (Sound familiar?), if we don't we are running clock and making sure our opponent is playing the run almost every play (keeping them honest). Our biggest goal against the Ravens was to keep the ball away from Ed Reed, and force him to come up as much as possible in run support. Mission accomplished, Reed was a none factor. By forcing Reed to play run a majority of the time and forcing Ray Lewis to stuff the run, we were opening up lanes for Heath and for our short passing game. Is this type of game planning sexy? No, but it was effective and took Ed Reed, their biggest defensive scoring threat out of the game.

Most of you Arians bashers like to look at one play or one series, and say " I could call better plays than that guy". But you are not looking at the big picture and the main goal, to win, and to win the Championship with the personel you have. Although throwing new formations and schemes in to the mix might win you some games (Wild Cat, Dolphins), to be successful for the whole season continuity will win over gimics 99% of the time.

Ben threw 32 touch down passes last year with Arians as the OC but we fell short, this year we concentrate on ball control and field position and Ben throws 17 TD's and we are in the Super Bowl.

I know most of the Arians bashers will never change their mind about him, but he is the OC and we are in the Super Bowl for what it's worth.

Chavezz
01-25-2009, 09:17 PM
I'm not talking about abandoning the run, I'm talking about the type of runs being called. If running to the edges is more productive, why would you run into the back of the lineman?

Parker isn't Bettis, Parker will not move the pile.

Parkers game is based on speed and getting into open space, not on slamming his 210 pound frame into DT's. I agree that Arians isn't to blame for everything wrong with the offense but he IS to blame for some of them.

If it's 3rd and 1 and I know they are running over LG then the other team does too. You only impose your will when it works. You aren't intimidating anyone when your plays aren't effective.

Flasteel
01-25-2009, 10:48 PM
Well if you don't think it's true then you're wrong. If you really want to be successful in football it's not about trickery and changing schemes, it's about beating the man in front of you. The game comes down to the fundamentals of who blocks and tackles better. Our present offense has done a good enough job to win 14 out of 18 games and is playing in the world championship. To continue to call for Arians head is stupid, and shows how much most average fans know about football.

As far as the comments about running up the middle on first and second down only to be stopped over and over, you guys sound like my Mom watching a football game, "why doesn't the guy just run around the pile?" A brilliant observation, but it's because she can't see the big picture. If we gain yardage on those plays then we will impose our will on the other team, (Sound familiar?), if we don't we are running clock and making sure our opponent is playing the run almost every play (keeping them honest). Our biggest goal against the Ravens was to keep the ball away from Ed Reed, and force him to come up as much as possible in run support. Mission accomplished, Reed was a none factor. By forcing Reed to play run a majority of the time and forcing Ray Lewis to stuff the run, we were opening up lanes for Heath and for our short passing game. Is this type of game planning sexy? No, but it was effective and took Ed Reed, their biggest defensive scoring threat out of the game.

Most of you Arians bashers like to look at one play or one series, and say " I could call better plays than that guy". But you are not looking at the big picture and the main goal, to win, and to win the Championship with the personel you have. Although throwing new formations and schemes in to the mix might win you some games (Wild Cat, Dolphins), to be successful for the whole season continuity will win over gimics 99% of the time.

Ben threw 32 touch down passes last year with Arians as the OC but we fell short, this year we concentrate on ball control and field position and Ben throws 17 TD's and we are in the Super Bowl.

I know most of the Arians bashers will never change their mind about him, but he is the OC and we are in the Super Bowl for what it's worth.

Okay SD, first of all I agree that there is definitely merit in perfecting your bread and butter, and the importance of physically/mentally beating the man in front of you cannot be emphasized enough. But if you think the offense has performed nearly as well as it should have, then I would think your assessment is a little less than intelligent.

Using our record and the fact we're in the Super Bowl sound like nice nuggets of proof to prop your argument, but our defense was so dominant this year that we can overwhelming attribute both of those achievements to their play.

Imagine if we had played up to our potential offensively?

Granted we'd be in the same position as we are now, but the outlook on the future (both immediate and longer term) would be a hell of a lot more rosey for me knowing we had a dangerous offense to compliment the best defense in the league.

I will give the offense their due credit for the comebacks and and sporadic big plays but the majority of them were sandlot plays with Ben scrambling or in the hurry-up mode when we were in the no-huddle (with little to no Arians pay-calling).

As far as the running plays up the middle, the simple fact is that we didn't make yards doing it against Baltimore and the two times we even tried going outside, we gained the two biggest chunks of yards we had all day. Chris Johnson torched them a week earlier with off-tackle runs, sweeps, tosses, and bouncing it out himself. We decided instead to take a guy with similar speed and run him right at Haloti Ngata and Ray Lewis all day with absolutely no success...brilliant! I am all about chewing clock and forcing defenders to cheat up and in with the running game, but you attack across all horizontal points and keep the defense off balance while playing to your strengths.

You also don't give enough credit to a coach putting his players in a position to win. Arians has continually failed to do this in regards to pass protection (how long did it take for the three strep drop? Where were the screens, draws, or designed roll-outs?). And he has failed as it concerns our running game (no fullback, no creativity, not using players to their strengths). I won't get into assessment of offensive line talent or complete lack in significant development by any offensive player, because those earlier points should be enough to hang him.

Arians sucks. He represents no growth next year and will force us to rely on our defense being as great as it was this year to repeat our success. I want better...so should you.

SanAntonioSteelerFan
01-25-2009, 11:16 PM
Hey SD, you bring up a lot of good points. I look at it this way though, "keeping them honest" (keep Ed Reed up to the LOS, etc., which I think are excellent points you made) loses it's value of you go 3 and out all the time. If we could get 3.4 yards per carry up the middle, great, we keep moving the chains. But 3.2 - we just give the ball back to the offense, our defense gets tired, and then we are hosed.

We need to keep Curt Warner off the field, and IMO it won't be with running up the middle without a fullback on 1st down all the time.

RuthlessBurgher
01-25-2009, 11:20 PM
Hey SD, you bring up a lot of good points. I look at it this way though, "keeping them honest" (keep Ed Reed up to the LOS, etc., which I think are excellent points you made) loses it's value of you go 3 and out all the time. If we could get 3.4 yards per carry up the middle, great, we keep moving the chains. But 3.2 - we just give the ball back to the offense, our defense gets tired, and then we are hosed.

We need to keep Curt Warner off the field, and IMO it won't be with running up the middle without a fullback on 1st down all the time.

Curt Warner, the former Penn State RB who played for the Seahawks in the 80's? I think security would do a good job keeping that guy off the field. However, I would agree that we should try to keep the QB Kurt Warner off the field as much as possible too. :wink:

sd steel
01-26-2009, 12:24 AM
I should have prefaced my last post by stating that I am not a strong Arians supporter, and yes I question many of the play calls. In fact I would go as far to blame Arians play calling for our loss to the Eagles among others.

I think the reason for the vanilla against the Ravens, including the running up the gut was done purposefully to limit turnovers. When Willie gets off tackle he still doesn't secure the ball properly and he is a risk to fumble when he takes angled blows, which he did when Lewis hit him. We knew that if we did not turn the ball over the Ravens would not beat us, and we played it safe. Also you guys stated that the Ravens were getting beat on the edge by the Titans, so do you think the Ravens would figure we would try to do the same thing? So maybe they would over compensate on the edge and be softer up the middle? Maybe we figured that and designed a game plan to steer away from what they worked on all week, probably the outside contain. Hines get knocked out early, and that probably also shrinks our game plan. Lots of variables, but we still won, and should have scored at least 3 more touch downs on offense.

Our line has stunk a majority of the year, which handcuffs a coordinator. We have had major injuries in our backfield, and although Russell might have been more effective, I'm guessing has hasn't gotten the reps to make the coaching staff feel comfortable in his ability to secure the ball. As the line gelled and as Willie has become healthy our ground game has looked better, but if your line is in disarray, and they aren't beating the man or at least handling the man in front of them the o goes nowhere, and the OC will always look horrible. Tack that on to the fact that we played most of the toughest defenses in the NFL week in and week out, and Arians was in a no win situation before the first game.

The only problem is we did win, 14 times. It's easy to say we won because of the defense, or we won because of Ben "sandlot" ability, but the truth of the matter is we won as a team, and Arians played a major role in our success. Again, I'm not an Arians fan, and he has made alot of mistakes in my opinion, but we didn't win inspite of him.

I'm guessing with another year in this system, and alot more continuity on our oline, and a healthy backfield, this offense will be quite explosive next year under Arians.

My whole point is calling for Arian's head is stupid when we are in the Super Bowl, and calling him names is stupid, and calling for a "New Offense" when we are in the playoffs doesn't say much about that fan's knowledge of the game of football. IMO

Djfan
01-26-2009, 12:53 AM
SD,

Your posts are usually on the money, so I respect what you say. I really like how you said that you are not a big supporter of BA. I am down the scale a bit more than that, definitely past the mid-point, and lean towards getting rid of him. Maybe that isn't that for from where you are. I just think that he is not flexible enough to use the talent we have to the best ability.

Still, our talent level is high, and our options have to be more than we have seen. If that is right, then someone is making decisions that limit the use of the talent we have. History tells me it BA. That's my complaint.

I think other thinkers will do things differently and that is what I advocate. Sure we're in the super bowl. I give that credit to the D, and to the broken play ability of Ben and company. That's just me.

sd steel
01-26-2009, 01:33 AM
SD,

Your posts are usually on the money, so I respect what you say. I really like how you said that you are not a big supporter of BA. I am down the scale a bit more than that, definitely past the mid-point, and lean towards getting rid of him. Maybe that isn't that for from where you are. I just think that he is not flexible enough to use the talent we have to the best ability.

Still, our talent level is high, and our options have to be more than we have seen. If that is right, then someone is making decisions that limit the use of the talent we have. History tells me it BA. That's my complaint.

I think other thinkers will do things differently and that is what I advocate. Sure we're in the super bowl. I give that credit to the D, and to the broken play ability of Ben and company. That's just me.

I don't disagree with that thinking DJ, but we don't know what goes on in player meetings, we don't know if Arians has the final say on personel, and it always sounds great to say we should get Willie outside, Moore should catch all the passes and Russell should run up the gut. Hell, I couldn't wait to see Sweed on the field.....until he dropped a couple of passes. :HeadBanger

It is easy to second guess every call and every personnel decision, but why does anyone on a message board think, including myself, that my opinion would be correct?

I don't sit in the meetings and watch hours of tape, and basically live with these players 8 hours a day for 7-8 months. I know what I watch game day, and what I read and see in the media. I would guess even though I played 12+ years of football, and still coach the sport that with the information I have, these coaches know alot more about what will be successful and what players will put us in the best decision to win.

I kind of equate it to me coaching youth football, and little Johnny's Mom comes to one practice a week and on scout team Johnny scores a touch down on our #1 D. During the games Johnny is a 2nd string receiver, and plays minimally. Johnny's Mom then talks to me after the game saying "Johnny should be starting at RB, I saw him score that one practice that I watched", then I have to explain, that Johnny shows up late to practice twice a week, he doesn't study his play book, and doesn't know his right hand from his left hand, and isn't really that fast. In fact he scored on that play because the OC called the play to the wrong side and we were trying a new stunt to the other side of the formation to give our defense a look.

Basically what I am trying to say it's easy to be a Monday AM QB, but if you don't know all of the info, your opinion is not valid, because you don't know all the facts.

Djfan
01-26-2009, 02:03 AM
I won't argue that SD. I am not in those meetings. Even though I always felt that the Steelers lost out on an amazing talent by that decision.

I post everything with the footnote of "Just my opinion". At least in my mind I do.

We can all guess and often those guesses around this MB are pretty educated guesses.

That's all.

Loved the story about you and your boy during game time. My youngest is 9 last week and I still have to hold him a lot.

BTW, let me personally invite you to join us for the SB. Our club has a great deal of fun and our raffle includes signed stuff by FWP, Ward, Franco and Bradshaw, Farrior, Troy, maybe Harrison, and lots of little things like window stickers, shirts etc.

It should be huge!

BURGH86STEEL
01-26-2009, 02:41 AM
[quote="Mister Pittsburgh":2ohrtmcg][quote="sd steel":2ohrtmcg]If you can't execute the plays you have why add new ones?

You guys keep on grilling the coordinator, but if you look to Lombardi and Noll, it is not about changing plays and schemes, it's about perfecting the ones you run.

I don't think that is necessarily true. I don't care how much you practice it, running the ball on first and second down between the tackles against the Rats is not going to work, especially when you do it every freaking series.

Would be a nice surprise to incorporate some Dennis Dixon. Maybe line up at WR, have Ben bootleg and hand to Dixon on the reverse. Have Nate or Holmes go deep. If they aren't open then Dixon runs it.[/quote:2ohrtmcg]

Well if you don't think it's true then you're wrong. If you really want to be successful in football it's not about trickery and changing schemes, it's about beating the man in front of you. The game comes down to the fundamentals of who blocks and tackles better. Our present offense has done a good enough job to win 14 out of 18 games and is playing in the world championship. To continue to call for Arians head is stupid, and shows how much most average fans know about football.

As far as the comments about running up the middle on first and second down only to be stopped over and over, you guys sound like my Mom watching a football game, "why doesn't the guy just run around the pile?" A brilliant observation, but it's because she can't see the big picture. If we gain yardage on those plays then we will impose our will on the other team, (Sound familiar?), if we don't we are running clock and making sure our opponent is playing the run almost every play (keeping them honest). Our biggest goal against the Ravens was to keep the ball away from Ed Reed, and force him to come up as much as possible in run support. Mission accomplished, Reed was a none factor. By forcing Reed to play run a majority of the time and forcing Ray Lewis to stuff the run, we were opening up lanes for Heath and for our short passing game. Is this type of game planning sexy? No, but it was effective and took Ed Reed, their biggest defensive scoring threat out of the game.

Most of you Arians bashers like to look at one play or one series, and say " I could call better plays than that guy". But you are not looking at the big picture and the main goal, to win, and to win the Championship with the personel you have. Although throwing new formations and schemes in to the mix might win you some games (Wild Cat, Dolphins), to be successful for the whole season continuity will win over gimics 99% of the time.

Ben threw 32 touch down passes last year with Arians as the OC but we fell short, this year we concentrate on ball control and field position and Ben throws 17 TD's and we are in the Super Bowl.

I know most of the Arians bashers will never change their mind about him, but he is the OC and we are in the Super Bowl for what it's worth.[/quote:2ohrtmcg]

Good points and I agree with you. The teams the execute better usually win the games. I will add to your comments that the Steelers wanted to shorten the game, give the Ravens offense less opportunities, keep our defense off the field, and keep their defense on the field by running the ball. For the most part, they tried to run a balanced offense in that game.

I thought the game plan against the Chargers and Ravens was pretty good. The players executed better against the Chargers. That is what it boiled down too. Arians may not be perfect but he is far from incompetent as many suggest.

BURGH86STEEL
01-26-2009, 03:09 AM
Well if you don't think it's true then you're wrong. If you really want to be successful in football it's not about trickery and changing schemes, it's about beating the man in front of you. The game comes down to the fundamentals of who blocks and tackles better. Our present offense has done a good enough job to win 14 out of 18 games and is playing in the world championship. To continue to call for Arians head is stupid, and shows how much most average fans know about football.

As far as the comments about running up the middle on first and second down only to be stopped over and over, you guys sound like my Mom watching a football game, "why doesn't the guy just run around the pile?" A brilliant observation, but it's because she can't see the big picture. If we gain yardage on those plays then we will impose our will on the other team, (Sound familiar?), if we don't we are running clock and making sure our opponent is playing the run almost every play (keeping them honest). Our biggest goal against the Ravens was to keep the ball away from Ed Reed, and force him to come up as much as possible in run support. Mission accomplished, Reed was a none factor. By forcing Reed to play run a majority of the time and forcing Ray Lewis to stuff the run, we were opening up lanes for Heath and for our short passing game. Is this type of game planning sexy? No, but it was effective and took Ed Reed, their biggest defensive scoring threat out of the game.

Most of you Arians bashers like to look at one play or one series, and say " I could call better plays than that guy". But you are not looking at the big picture and the main goal, to win, and to win the Championship with the personel you have. Although throwing new formations and schemes in to the mix might win you some games (Wild Cat, Dolphins), to be successful for the whole season continuity will win over gimics 99% of the time.

Ben threw 32 touch down passes last year with Arians as the OC but we fell short, this year we concentrate on ball control and field position and Ben throws 17 TD's and we are in the Super Bowl.

I know most of the Arians bashers will never change their mind about him, but he is the OC and we are in the Super Bowl for what it's worth.

Okay SD, first of all I agree that there is definitely merit in perfecting your bread and butter, and the importance of physically/mentally beating the man in front of you cannot be emphasized enough. But if you think the offense has performed nearly as well as it should have, then I would think your assessment is a little less than intelligent.

Using our record and the fact we're in the Super Bowl sound like nice nuggets of proof to prop your argument, but our defense was so dominant this year that we can overwhelming attribute both of those achievements to their play.

Imagine if we had played up to our potential offensively?

Granted we'd be in the same position as we are now, but the outlook on the future (both immediate and longer term) would be a hell of a lot more rosey for me knowing we had a dangerous offense to compliment the best defense in the league.

I will give the offense their due credit for the comebacks and and sporadic big plays but the majority of them were sandlot plays with Ben scrambling or in the hurry-up mode when we were in the no-huddle (with little to no Arians pay-calling).

As far as the running plays up the middle, the simple fact is that we didn't make yards doing it against Baltimore and the two times we even tried going outside, we gained the two biggest chunks of yards we had all day. Chris Johnson torched them a week earlier with off-tackle runs, sweeps, tosses, and bouncing it out himself. We decided instead to take a guy with similar speed and run him right at Haloti Ngata and Ray Lewis all day with absolutely no success...brilliant! I am all about chewing clock and forcing defenders to cheat up and in with the running game, but you attack across all horizontal points and keep the defense off balance while playing to your strengths.

You also don't give enough credit to a coach putting his players in a position to win. Arians has continually failed to do this in regards to pass protection (how long did it take for the three strep drop? Where were the screens, draws, or designed roll-outs?). And he has failed as it concerns our running game (no fullback, no creativity, not using players to their strengths). I won't get into assessment of offensive line talent or complete lack in significant development by any offensive player, because those earlier points should be enough to hang him.

Arians sucks. He represents no growth next year and will force us to rely on our defense being as great as it was this year to repeat our success. I want better...so should you.

You fail too see what they have done in this offense. The pass protection has gotten much better. How many new starters were on the Oline this year? 4. They have run screens, draws, and a few designed roll outs. We have not been a good screen teams since the 05 season. Teams have been all over them. Think it could have something to do with the talent a long the Oline? They have tried. They've run several draws this season. Sometimes they work and sometimes they do not. I do not know a team that has designed roll outs as a staple in their offense. Name one team that does this consistently.

A FB is not going to matter when, the Oline & TEs are getting beat up front and you have injuries to the RBs. So you want to blame Arians for the lack of talent on the Oline? Go figure, that is not his fault. You fail to see some of the good things he's gotten done. Lack of development of the players? Holmes lead the league in YPC in 07. Ben had his best statistical season in 07. Parker was leading the league in rushing in 07. I believe the offense was near the top of the league in 3rd% down in 07. They were near the top of the league in red zone production this season. As was mentioned earlier, the Oline has 4 news starters this season. Those guys are playing better in the playoffs. What do you expect from the OC?

Creativity does not win in the NFL, execution wins. How much flash, dash, and creativity did the 70's Steelers, 80's 49ners, 90's Cowboys, 2000's Pats, or 2007 Giants have? I know one thing those teams did for certain. They executed better than everybody else.

Your failure to recognize some of the good things this offense accomplished under Arians shows how much you want him gone. You want to simply ignore the good things. Show me an OC that calls a perfect game. I will be waiting. You have to give him credit for some of this offenses accomplishments.

Flasteel
01-26-2009, 08:15 AM
Well if you don't think it's true then you're wrong. If you really want to be successful in football it's not about trickery and changing schemes, it's about beating the man in front of you. The game comes down to the fundamentals of who blocks and tackles better. Our present offense has done a good enough job to win 14 out of 18 games and is playing in the world championship. To continue to call for Arians head is stupid, and shows how much most average fans know about football.

As far as the comments about running up the middle on first and second down only to be stopped over and over, you guys sound like my Mom watching a football game, "why doesn't the guy just run around the pile?" A brilliant observation, but it's because she can't see the big picture. If we gain yardage on those plays then we will impose our will on the other team, (Sound familiar?), if we don't we are running clock and making sure our opponent is playing the run almost every play (keeping them honest). Our biggest goal against the Ravens was to keep the ball away from Ed Reed, and force him to come up as much as possible in run support. Mission accomplished, Reed was a none factor. By forcing Reed to play run a majority of the time and forcing Ray Lewis to stuff the run, we were opening up lanes for Heath and for our short passing game. Is this type of game planning sexy? No, but it was effective and took Ed Reed, their biggest defensive scoring threat out of the game.

Most of you Arians bashers like to look at one play or one series, and say " I could call better plays than that guy". But you are not looking at the big picture and the main goal, to win, and to win the Championship with the personel you have. Although throwing new formations and schemes in to the mix might win you some games (Wild Cat, Dolphins), to be successful for the whole season continuity will win over gimics 99% of the time.

Ben threw 32 touch down passes last year with Arians as the OC but we fell short, this year we concentrate on ball control and field position and Ben throws 17 TD's and we are in the Super Bowl.

I know most of the Arians bashers will never change their mind about him, but he is the OC and we are in the Super Bowl for what it's worth.

Okay SD, first of all I agree that there is definitely merit in perfecting your bread and butter, and the importance of physically/mentally beating the man in front of you cannot be emphasized enough. But if you think the offense has performed nearly as well as it should have, then I would think your assessment is a little less than intelligent.

Using our record and the fact we're in the Super Bowl sound like nice nuggets of proof to prop your argument, but our defense was so dominant this year that we can overwhelming attribute both of those achievements to their play.

Imagine if we had played up to our potential offensively?

Granted we'd be in the same position as we are now, but the outlook on the future (both immediate and longer term) would be a hell of a lot more rosey for me knowing we had a dangerous offense to compliment the best defense in the league.

I will give the offense their due credit for the comebacks and and sporadic big plays but the majority of them were sandlot plays with Ben scrambling or in the hurry-up mode when we were in the no-huddle (with little to no Arians pay-calling).

As far as the running plays up the middle, the simple fact is that we didn't make yards doing it against Baltimore and the two times we even tried going outside, we gained the two biggest chunks of yards we had all day. Chris Johnson torched them a week earlier with off-tackle runs, sweeps, tosses, and bouncing it out himself. We decided instead to take a guy with similar speed and run him right at Haloti Ngata and Ray Lewis all day with absolutely no success...brilliant! I am all about chewing clock and forcing defenders to cheat up and in with the running game, but you attack across all horizontal points and keep the defense off balance while playing to your strengths.

You also don't give enough credit to a coach putting his players in a position to win. Arians has continually failed to do this in regards to pass protection (how long did it take for the three strep drop? Where were the screens, draws, or designed roll-outs?). And he has failed as it concerns our running game (no fullback, no creativity, not using players to their strengths). I won't get into assessment of offensive line talent or complete lack in significant development by any offensive player, because those earlier points should be enough to hang him.

Arians sucks. He represents no growth next year and will force us to rely on our defense being as great as it was this year to repeat our success. I want better...so should you.

You fail too see what they have done in this offense. The pass protection has gotten much better. How many new starters were on the Oline this year? 4. They have run screens, draws, and a few designed roll outs. We have not been a good screen teams since the 05 season. Teams have been all over them. Think it could have something to do with the talent a long the Oline? They have tried. They've run several draws this season. Sometimes they work and sometimes they do not. I do not know a team that has designed roll outs as a staple in their offense. Name one team that does this consistently.

A FB is not going to matter when, the Oline & TEs are getting beat up front and you have injuries to the RBs. So you want to blame Arians for the lack of talent on the Oline? Go figure, that is not his fault. You fail to see some of the good things he's gotten done. Lack of development of the players? Holmes lead the league in YPC in 07. Ben had his best statistical season in 07. Parker was leading the league in rushing in 07. I believe the offense was near the top of the league in 3rd% down in 07. They were near the top of the league in red zone production this season. As was mentioned earlier, the Oline has 4 news starters this season. Those guys are playing better in the playoffs. What do you expect from the OC?

Creativity does not win in the NFL, execution wins. How much flash, dash, and creativity did the 70's Steelers, 80's 49ners, 90's Cowboys, 2000's Pats, or 2007 Giants have? I know one thing those teams did for certain. They executed better than everybody else.

Your failure to recognize some of the good things this offense accomplished under Arians shows how much you want him gone. You want to simply ignore the good things. Show me an OC that calls a perfect game. I will be waiting. You have to give him credit for some of this offenses accomplishments.

I agree the pass protection has got better as the line started to gain some cohesiveness and as we did begin to incorporate more of a quick passing game into our offense. That and the injuries are not lost on me Burghsteel. I just see beyound those issues and recognize that it's a combination of creativity, sound football strategy, and execution that win games. You're the one who seeming discounts everything the coach brings to the table. Should he be just a guy that draws stuff up and drill everyone in practice until they have it perfected?

I don't think so.

You're right that I do want him gone and I don't think I've kept that much of a secret :D

ANPSTEEL
01-26-2009, 09:04 AM
On the topic-

I think StlrzD is right.

My guess is they had some plays- which we may see against AZ- involving Ward in the back field with Parker.

I think we'll get the usual dose of the WR bubble screens to Ward, but I think we'll also see some type of throw back to Ben- or a pass from Ward, depending upon how the D reads it.


lastly, while I can only hope and pray Dixon is actually utilized - I don't see any way they use a package - for the first time all season- that involves a rookie- in the SB.

feltdizz
01-26-2009, 10:48 AM
just wanted to bump this thread. I think the Ravens game was well called by Arians. Of course I'm frustrated at the run up the gut but I soon realized why we kept doing this...

like someone says earlier it moves the LB's up and Ed Reed is null and void if he has to keep coming up to play the run. It's the last thing Reed wants to do. Have you ever seen a Raven's game where Ed Reed didn't defend a pass or was no where near any of a QB's deep throws?

and we were up 17-0 at one point before the refs decided it needed to be a close game and took away Holmes TD. Running FWP up the gut is a necessary evil against the Ravens D.

Arians is not going anywhere either.. I'm not a big fan but how productive was our offense back in the 70's?
It was a bunch of runs with a few deep passes... and the D would close out the game.

Oviedo
01-26-2009, 11:04 AM
Trick play for the Super Bowl is Sweed catching the ball. :wink: All the drops and reports of dropping passes at practice is a set up.

Seriously though I don't see too many trick plays. Flea flickers and the like are too risky. I would expect to see possibly a "pony backfield" at some time with both Moore and FWP in the backfield.

BTW--I think Sweed will be fine and a great asset. This may be his game.

Djfan
01-26-2009, 11:31 AM
like someone says earlier it moves the LB's up and Ed Reed is null and void if he has to keep coming up to play the run. It's the last thing Reed wants to do. Have you ever seen a Raven's game where Ed Reed didn't defend a pass or was no where near any of a QB's deep throws?

I have been thinking about this all weekend. I agree that the game plan was to get those guys out of the mix, at least I agree that it looked that way.

I will wait and see what the SB brings. I still don't get excited about the guy.

sd steel
01-26-2009, 12:26 PM
just wanted to bump this thread. I think the Ravens game was well called by Arians. Of course I'm frustrated at the run up the gut but I soon realized why we kept doing this...

like someone says earlier it moves the LB's up and Ed Reed is null and void if he has to keep coming up to play the run. It's the last thing Reed wants to do. Have you ever seen a Raven's game where Ed Reed didn't defend a pass or was no where near any of a QB's deep throws?

and we were up 17-0 at one point before the refs decided it needed to be a close game and took away Holmes TD. Running FWP up the gut is a necessary evil against the Ravens D.

Arians is not going anywhere either.. I'm not a big fan but how productive was our offense back in the 70's?
It was a bunch of runs with a few deep passes... and the D would close out the game.

:Cheers

I wish I would have said that. :lol:

MeetJoeGreene
01-26-2009, 12:37 PM
just wanted to bump this thread. I think the Ravens game was well called by Arians. Of course I'm frustrated at the run up the gut but I soon realized why we kept doing this...

like someone says earlier it moves the LB's up and Ed Reed is null and void if he has to keep coming up to play the run. It's the last thing Reed wants to do. Have you ever seen a Raven's game where Ed Reed didn't defend a pass or was no where near any of a QB's deep throws?

and we were up 17-0 at one point before the refs decided it needed to be a close game and took away Holmes TD. Running FWP up the gut is a necessary evil against the Ravens D.

Arians is not going anywhere either.. I'm not a big fan but how productive was our offense back in the 70's?
It was a bunch of runs with a few deep passes... and the D would close out the game.

That was true of the first 2 Super Bowl teams -- I was amazed as I was watching the Super Bowl Replays on NFLN this week of that fact (and how many FG Roy Gerela missed).
Now... later in the 70s for our last 2 Super Bowls, we passed a lot more

feltdizz
01-26-2009, 01:44 PM
like someone says earlier it moves the LB's up and Ed Reed is null and void if he has to keep coming up to play the run. It's the last thing Reed wants to do. Have you ever seen a Raven's game where Ed Reed didn't defend a pass or was no where near any of a QB's deep throws?

I have been thinking about this all weekend. I agree that the game plan was to get those guys out of the mix, at least I agree that it looked that way.

I will wait and see what the SB brings. I still don't get excited about the guy.

You have to consider this though...

Take out Ben's 3 or 4 weeks when he was hurt and wasn't getting reps... there were 11 TO's in those 4 games and most were on Ben's shoulder. Now add to it playing 8 to 10 games against the top 10 Defenses and injuries to the OL and RB's....

Ben had 32 TD's in 07 and only 17 in 08 yet we are in the SB this year...
and we beat the Rats 3 times...

Look at how many times we have gone deep and the guy has been wide open. Sure we have had drops but execution of the play up to the drop has been superb in the playoffs.

Look at the sacks and the int's this playoff? little and zero

Maybe Arians does think too much and is terrible at the GL.. (just run the sweep)
but overall our O has been very efficient. How bad is an OC who can gobble up 14 minutes and 30 seconds in the 3rd quarter of a playoff game?

Our regular season offense was rope a dope.. that is how Arians and Ben seemed to play it. Just enough to get by and when it really matters... do the damn thing.

Arians isn't perfect but he is far from terrible.

Oviedo
01-26-2009, 01:52 PM
like someone says earlier it moves the LB's up and Ed Reed is null and void if he has to keep coming up to play the run. It's the last thing Reed wants to do. Have you ever seen a Raven's game where Ed Reed didn't defend a pass or was no where near any of a QB's deep throws?

I have been thinking about this all weekend. I agree that the game plan was to get those guys out of the mix, at least I agree that it looked that way.

I will wait and see what the SB brings. I still don't get excited about the guy.

You have to consider this though...

Take out Ben's 3 or 4 weeks when he was hurt and wasn't getting reps... there were 11 TO's in those 4 games and most were on Ben's shoulder. Now add to it playing 8 to 10 games against the top 10 Defenses and injuries to the OL and RB's....

Ben had 32 TD's in 07 and only 17 in 08 yet we are in the SB this year...
and we beat the Rats 3 times...

Look at how many times we have gone deep and the guy has been wide open. Sure we have had drops but execution of the play up to the drop has been superb in the playoffs.

Look at the sacks and the int's this playoff? little and zero

Maybe Arians does think too much and is terrible at the GL.. (just run the sweep)
but overall our O has been very efficient. How bad is an OC who can gobble up 14 minutes and 30 seconds in the 3rd quarter of a playoff game?

Our regular season offense was rope a dope.. that is how Arians and Ben seemed to play it. Just enough to get by and when it really matters... do the damn thing.

Arians isn't perfect but he is far from terrible.

Arians isn't in the top 10% of the OCs in the NFL and he isn't in the bottom 10%. The reality is that for the time being he fits in and even though some want to ignore it he has been successful in reshaping the offense in the post-Bettis era. Injuries were a huge factor this year and that cannot be ignored. The need to improve the OL is clear. In reality the offense has done a decent job with these factors working gainst them.

You can subscribe to two philosophies:

1. 2007 with Ben's 32 TDs and FWPs 1400 yards were a fluke
2. 2008 with the down offense was a fluke and a function of schedule and injuries.

I subscribe to the latter versus the former. Arians will not be going anywhere after the season unless the SB turns into a complete disaster. All the credible replacements have already been snapped up by the new head coaches. Those without OC jobs don't have them for a reason.

In 2009 expect the offense to be more like we saw in 2007. Ben will have 25+ TDs and our top RB will have over 1000 yards rushing.

AngryAsian
01-26-2009, 05:07 PM
like someone says earlier it moves the LB's up and Ed Reed is null and void if he has to keep coming up to play the run. It's the last thing Reed wants to do. Have you ever seen a Raven's game where Ed Reed didn't defend a pass or was no where near any of a QB's deep throws?

I have been thinking about this all weekend. I agree that the game plan was to get those guys out of the mix, at least I agree that it looked that way.

I will wait and see what the SB brings. I still don't get excited about the guy.

You have to consider this though...

Take out Ben's 3 or 4 weeks when he was hurt and wasn't getting reps... there were 11 TO's in those 4 games and most were on Ben's shoulder. Now add to it playing 8 to 10 games against the top 10 Defenses and injuries to the OL and RB's....

Ben had 32 TD's in 07 and only 17 in 08 yet we are in the SB this year...
and we beat the Rats 3 times...

Look at how many times we have gone deep and the guy has been wide open. Sure we have had drops but execution of the play up to the drop has been superb in the playoffs.

Look at the sacks and the int's this playoff? little and zero

Maybe Arians does think too much and is terrible at the GL.. (just run the sweep)
but overall our O has been very efficient. How bad is an OC who can gobble up 14 minutes and 30 seconds in the 3rd quarter of a playoff game?

Our regular season offense was rope a dope.. that is how Arians and Ben seemed to play it. Just enough to get by and when it really matters... do the damn thing.

Arians isn't perfect but he is far from terrible.

Arians isn't in the top 10% of the OCs in the NFL and he isn't in the bottom 10%. The reality is that for the time being he fits in and even though some want to ignore it he has been successful in reshaping the offense in the post-Bettis era. Injuries were a huge factor this year and that cannot be ignored. The need to improve the OL is clear. In reality the offense has done a decent job with these factors working gainst them.

You can subscribe to two philosophies:

1. 2007 with Ben's 32 TDs and FWPs 1400 yards were a fluke
2. 2008 with the down offense was a fluke and a function of schedule and injuries.

I subscribe to the latter versus the former. Arians will not be going anywhere after the season unless the SB turns into a complete disaster. All the credible replacements have already been snapped up by the new head coaches. Those without OC jobs don't have them for a reason.

In 2009 expect the offense to be more like we saw in 2007. Ben will have 25+ TDs and our top RB will have over 1000 yards rushing.


A Super Bowl win will secure BA's footing on the team. Especially if our offense stands toe to toe with AZ on the NFL's biggest stage. I still don't like the play calling and find it too predictable. I wouldn't even mind the predictability of it, if I knew we were actually using the right pieces for the specific play being ran. I've said it before in other threads, the SD game was the best called game I've seen in the past 2 years. We imposed our will on the opposing team and killed a lot of clock. We play like that in the SB and the trophy is ours, but I can't see us going 3 and out often on the Cards and winning... Keeping that offense off the field is the key to this game.

buckeyehoppy
01-26-2009, 10:52 PM
I can't see us going 3 and out often on the Cards and winning... Keeping that offense off the field is the key to this game.

Yahtzee!!!

Ball Control and TOP will be keys to this game every bit as much as they were keys to the SD and Rattards games.

RuthlessBurgher
01-26-2009, 11:28 PM
I can't see us going 3 and out often on the Cards and winning... Keeping that offense off the field is the key to this game.

Yahtzee!!!

Ball Control and TOP will be keys to this game every bit as much as they were keys to the SD and Rattards games.

http://www.geek.com/images/minireviews/yahtzee/yahtzee3.gif

:lol:

DBinAL
01-26-2009, 11:31 PM
First of all, Dennis Dixon will not be activated for the game.

Next, I am sick of all of the BA bashing. If Willie Parker doesn't let the football bang off his faceguard, that's a TD. On the same drive Holmes 'drops' a TD pass, so the Steelers lose 4 points. Then Sweed drops 6 points and costs the team a TO, resulting in 0 points. That's 11 points in the first half that don't make it on the scoreboard. Game over if these plays are converted.

I guess it was BA's fault.

The Steelers are in the Super Bowl. Give it a rest.

stlrz d
01-26-2009, 11:33 PM
First of all, Dennis Dixon will not be activated for the game.

Next, I am sick of all of the BA bashing. If Willie Parker doesn't let the football bang off his faceguard, that's a TD. On the same drive Holmes 'drops' a TD pass, so the Steelers lose 4 points. Then Sweed drops 6 points and costs the team a TO, resulting in 0 points. That's 11 points in the first half that don't make it on the scoreboard. Game over if these plays are converted.

I guess it was BA's fault.

The Steelers are in the Super Bowl. Give it a rest.

If you're gonna bash Parker get it right. It hit his shoulder. :P

NorthCoast
01-27-2009, 01:47 PM
You can say that BA has done a decent job this year all things considered. BUT, the reality is no one can convince me that if we had a lesser defense than No. 1 in all categories that we would be playing this weekend. By my reckoning our defense won the first Cleveland, Dallas, the first Baltimore game, the first San Diego game. Contrary to what you might think, our offense was not completely responsible for a 12-4 season.

We lose any of those games and we may not be singing the same praises.

SanAntonioSteelerFan
01-27-2009, 07:39 PM
I should have prefaced my last post by stating that I am not a strong Arians supporter, and yes I question many of the play calls. In fact I would go as far to blame Arians play calling for our loss to the Eagles among others.

I think the reason for the vanilla against the Ravens, including the running up the gut was done purposefully to limit turnovers. When Willie gets off tackle he still doesn't secure the ball properly and he is a risk to fumble when he takes angled blows, which he did when Lewis hit him. We knew that if we did not turn the ball over the Ravens would not beat us, and we played it safe. Also you guys stated that the Ravens were getting beat on the edge by the Titans, so do you think the Ravens would figure we would try to do the same thing? So maybe they would over compensate on the edge and be softer up the middle? Maybe we figured that and designed a game plan to steer away from what they worked on all week, probably the outside contain. Hines get knocked out early, and that probably also shrinks our game plan. Lots of variables, but we still won, and should have scored at least 3 more touch downs on offense.

Our line has stunk a majority of the year, which handcuffs a coordinator. We have had major injuries in our backfield, and although Russell might have been more effective, I'm guessing has hasn't gotten the reps to make the coaching staff feel comfortable in his ability to secure the ball. As the line gelled and as Willie has become healthy our ground game has looked better, but if your line is in disarray, and they aren't beating the man or at least handling the man in front of them the o goes nowhere, and the OC will always look horrible. Tack that on to the fact that we played most of the toughest defenses in the NFL week in and week out, and Arians was in a no win situation before the first game.

The only problem is we did win, 14 times. It's easy to say we won because of the defense, or we won because of Ben "sandlot" ability, but the truth of the matter is we won as a team, and Arians played a major role in our success. Again, I'm not an Arians fan, and he has made alot of mistakes in my opinion, but we didn't win inspite of him.

I'm guessing with another year in this system, and alot more continuity on our oline, and a healthy backfield, this offense will be quite explosive next year under Arians.

My whole point is calling for Arian's head is stupid when we are in the Super Bowl, and calling him names is stupid, and calling for a "New Offense" when we are in the playoffs doesn't say much about that fan's knowledge of the game of football. IMO

sd - As far as I know, this thread was posted with "New Offense" in the title because a columnist/blogger in the main stream media used that term to describe a new offensive approach in the upcoming Ravens game; and also to ask where that new offense actually was when all was said and done. Opinions differ on a board like this. Does it make the board better for one poster to say another's opinion is stupid, and to imply the other guy doesn't know much about the game of football?

Your opinion may be correct that BA is just fine for this team - I don't think so, but it sure could be. Part of the reason is I believe the a huge negative about BA is that his f'd up play calling is taking years off Big Ben's career. But that's just my opinion, which you may not agree with. Why the added personal insults?

sd steel
01-27-2009, 08:59 PM
I should have prefaced my last post by stating that I am not a strong Arians supporter, and yes I question many of the play calls. In fact I would go as far to blame Arians play calling for our loss to the Eagles among others.

I think the reason for the vanilla against the Ravens, including the running up the gut was done purposefully to limit turnovers. When Willie gets off tackle he still doesn't secure the ball properly and he is a risk to fumble when he takes angled blows, which he did when Lewis hit him. We knew that if we did not turn the ball over the Ravens would not beat us, and we played it safe. Also you guys stated that the Ravens were getting beat on the edge by the Titans, so do you think the Ravens would figure we would try to do the same thing? So maybe they would over compensate on the edge and be softer up the middle? Maybe we figured that and designed a game plan to steer away from what they worked on all week, probably the outside contain. Hines get knocked out early, and that probably also shrinks our game plan. Lots of variables, but we still won, and should have scored at least 3 more touch downs on offense.

Our line has stunk a majority of the year, which handcuffs a coordinator. We have had major injuries in our backfield, and although Russell might have been more effective, I'm guessing has hasn't gotten the reps to make the coaching staff feel comfortable in his ability to secure the ball. As the line gelled and as Willie has become healthy our ground game has looked better, but if your line is in disarray, and they aren't beating the man or at least handling the man in front of them the o goes nowhere, and the OC will always look horrible. Tack that on to the fact that we played most of the toughest defenses in the NFL week in and week out, and Arians was in a no win situation before the first game.

The only problem is we did win, 14 times. It's easy to say we won because of the defense, or we won because of Ben "sandlot" ability, but the truth of the matter is we won as a team, and Arians played a major role in our success. Again, I'm not an Arians fan, and he has made alot of mistakes in my opinion, but we didn't win inspite of him.

I'm guessing with another year in this system, and alot more continuity on our oline, and a healthy backfield, this offense will be quite explosive next year under Arians.

My whole point is calling for Arian's head is stupid when we are in the Super Bowl, and calling him names is stupid, and calling for a "New Offense" when we are in the playoffs doesn't say much about that fan's knowledge of the game of football. IMO

sd - As far as I know, this thread was posted with "New Offense" in the title because a columnist/blogger in the main stream media used that term to describe a new offensive approach in the upcoming Ravens game; and also to ask where that new offense actually was when all was said and done. Opinions differ on a board like this. Does it make the board better for one poster to say another's opinion is stupid, and to imply the other guy doesn't know much about the game of football?

Your opinion may be correct that BA is just fine for this team - I don't think so, but it sure could be. Part of the reason is I believe the a huge negative about BA is that his f'd up play calling is taking years off Big Ben's career. But that's just my opinion, which you may not agree with. Why the added personal insults?

My fault SA, it wasn't directed to you. I was trying to say that in general calling Arians names, and saying he should be fired when we are in the Super Bowl is stupid in my opinion. And in reality, calling the offensive coordinator of your favorite team "Arianus" or any other juvenile names because you don't agree with his play calling or his scheme is childish.

I have argued in Arians defense in this post, but I have argued against him as well this season regarding play calling and scheme, but there is no reason to degrade a guy who is a coach on your favorite team who is in the Super Bowl. So it was nothing personal against you and i apologize if you took it that way.

Now have you put your wife in check yet?

SanAntonioSteelerFan
01-28-2009, 01:52 AM
[quote="sd steel":2roit0kv]I should have prefaced my last post by stating that I am not a strong Arians supporter, and yes I question many of the play calls. In fact I would go as far to blame Arians play calling for our loss to the Eagles among others.

I think the reason for the vanilla against the Ravens, including the running up the gut was done purposefully to limit turnovers. When Willie gets off tackle he still doesn't secure the ball properly and he is a risk to fumble when he takes angled blows, which he did when Lewis hit him. We knew that if we did not turn the ball over the Ravens would not beat us, and we played it safe. Also you guys stated that the Ravens were getting beat on the edge by the Titans, so do you think the Ravens would figure we would try to do the same thing? So maybe they would over compensate on the edge and be softer up the middle? Maybe we figured that and designed a game plan to steer away from what they worked on all week, probably the outside contain. Hines get knocked out early, and that probably also shrinks our game plan. Lots of variables, but we still won, and should have scored at least 3 more touch downs on offense.

Our line has stunk a majority of the year, which handcuffs a coordinator. We have had major injuries in our backfield, and although Russell might have been more effective, I'm guessing has hasn't gotten the reps to make the coaching staff feel comfortable in his ability to secure the ball. As the line gelled and as Willie has become healthy our ground game has looked better, but if your line is in disarray, and they aren't beating the man or at least handling the man in front of them the o goes nowhere, and the OC will always look horrible. Tack that on to the fact that we played most of the toughest defenses in the NFL week in and week out, and Arians was in a no win situation before the first game.

The only problem is we did win, 14 times. It's easy to say we won because of the defense, or we won because of Ben "sandlot" ability, but the truth of the matter is we won as a team, and Arians played a major role in our success. Again, I'm not an Arians fan, and he has made alot of mistakes in my opinion, but we didn't win inspite of him.

I'm guessing with another year in this system, and alot more continuity on our oline, and a healthy backfield, this offense will be quite explosive next year under Arians.

My whole point is calling for Arian's head is stupid when we are in the Super Bowl, and calling him names is stupid, and calling for a "New Offense" when we are in the playoffs doesn't say much about that fan's knowledge of the game of football. IMO

sd - As far as I know, this thread was posted with "New Offense" in the title because a columnist/blogger in the main stream media used that term to describe a new offensive approach in the upcoming Ravens game; and also to ask where that new offense actually was when all was said and done. Opinions differ on a board like this. Does it make the board better for one poster to say another's opinion is stupid, and to imply the other guy doesn't know much about the game of football?

Your opinion may be correct that BA is just fine for this team - I don't think so, but it sure could be. Part of the reason is I believe the a huge negative about BA is that his f'd up play calling is taking years off Big Ben's career. But that's just my opinion, which you may not agree with. Why the added personal insults?

My fault SA, it wasn't directed to you. I was trying to say that in general calling Arians names, and saying he should be fired when we are in the Super Bowl is stupid in my opinion. And in reality, calling the offensive coordinator of your favorite team "Arianus" or any other juvenile names because you don't agree with his play calling or his scheme is childish.

I have argued in Arians defense in this post, but I have argued against him as well this season regarding play calling and scheme, but there is no reason to degrade a guy who is a coach on your favorite team who is in the Super Bowl. So it was nothing personal against you and i apologize if you took it that way.

Now have you put your wife in check yet?[/quote:2roit0kv]

Thanks, sd. That was the easy part - still working on the home front ...

sd steel
01-28-2009, 02:01 AM
[quote="sd steel":3rl6v7jl]I should have prefaced my last post by stating that I am not a strong Arians supporter, and yes I question many of the play calls. In fact I would go as far to blame Arians play calling for our loss to the Eagles among others.

I think the reason for the vanilla against the Ravens, including the running up the gut was done purposefully to limit turnovers. When Willie gets off tackle he still doesn't secure the ball properly and he is a risk to fumble when he takes angled blows, which he did when Lewis hit him. We knew that if we did not turn the ball over the Ravens would not beat us, and we played it safe. Also you guys stated that the Ravens were getting beat on the edge by the Titans, so do you think the Ravens would figure we would try to do the same thing? So maybe they would over compensate on the edge and be softer up the middle? Maybe we figured that and designed a game plan to steer away from what they worked on all week, probably the outside contain. Hines get knocked out early, and that probably also shrinks our game plan. Lots of variables, but we still won, and should have scored at least 3 more touch downs on offense.

Our line has stunk a majority of the year, which handcuffs a coordinator. We have had major injuries in our backfield, and although Russell might have been more effective, I'm guessing has hasn't gotten the reps to make the coaching staff feel comfortable in his ability to secure the ball. As the line gelled and as Willie has become healthy our ground game has looked better, but if your line is in disarray, and they aren't beating the man or at least handling the man in front of them the o goes nowhere, and the OC will always look horrible. Tack that on to the fact that we played most of the toughest defenses in the NFL week in and week out, and Arians was in a no win situation before the first game.

The only problem is we did win, 14 times. It's easy to say we won because of the defense, or we won because of Ben "sandlot" ability, but the truth of the matter is we won as a team, and Arians played a major role in our success. Again, I'm not an Arians fan, and he has made alot of mistakes in my opinion, but we didn't win inspite of him.

I'm guessing with another year in this system, and alot more continuity on our oline, and a healthy backfield, this offense will be quite explosive next year under Arians.

My whole point is calling for Arian's head is stupid when we are in the Super Bowl, and calling him names is stupid, and calling for a "New Offense" when we are in the playoffs doesn't say much about that fan's knowledge of the game of football. IMO

sd - As far as I know, this thread was posted with "New Offense" in the title because a columnist/blogger in the main stream media used that term to describe a new offensive approach in the upcoming Ravens game; and also to ask where that new offense actually was when all was said and done. Opinions differ on a board like this. Does it make the board better for one poster to say another's opinion is stupid, and to imply the other guy doesn't know much about the game of football?

Your opinion may be correct that BA is just fine for this team - I don't think so, but it sure could be. Part of the reason is I believe the a huge negative about BA is that his f'd up play calling is taking years off Big Ben's career. But that's just my opinion, which you may not agree with. Why the added personal insults?

My fault SA, it wasn't directed to you. I was trying to say that in general calling Arians names, and saying he should be fired when we are in the Super Bowl is stupid in my opinion. And in reality, calling the offensive coordinator of your favorite team "Arianus" or any other juvenile names because you don't agree with his play calling or his scheme is childish.

I have argued in Arians defense in this post, but I have argued against him as well this season regarding play calling and scheme, but there is no reason to degrade a guy who is a coach on your favorite team who is in the Super Bowl. So it was nothing personal against you and i apologize if you took it that way.

Now have you put your wife in check yet?

Thanks, sd. That was the easy part - still working on the home front ...[/quote:3rl6v7jl]

Just kidding Dude!
:Cheers

Oviedo
01-28-2009, 09:08 AM
You can say that BA has done a decent job this year all things considered. BUT, the reality is no one can convince me that if we had a lesser defense than No. 1 in all categories that we would be playing this weekend. By my reckoning our defense won the first Cleveland, Dallas, the first Baltimore game, the first San Diego game. Contrary to what you might think, our offense was not completely responsible for a 12-4 season.

We lose any of those games and we may not be singing the same praises.

You could say the exact same thing about the Giants last year and every Steelers Super Bowl team in the 1970's. Our last Super Bowl win in 2005 also wasn't because we were an offensive juggernaut.