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SteelCrazy
01-19-2009, 11:46 PM
In light of the way our Offensive line has been playing, how would you feel if we resigned all the free agent OL and kept our line intact?

They have been playing really well and protecting Big Ben as of late. I'm not sure but wouldnt be totally against it, I think?

papillon
01-19-2009, 11:49 PM
In light of the way our Offensive line has been playing, how would you feel if we resigned all the free agent OL and kept our line intact?

They have been playing really well and protecting Big Ben as of late. I'm not sure but wouldnt be totally against it, I think?

You have a perfect username if retaining these 5 guys would be a possibility if you were Colbert. :stirpot :P

Pappy

birtikidis
01-19-2009, 11:56 PM
i think we SHOULD keep them all. draft their replacements but keep what we have.

MaxAMillion
01-20-2009, 12:08 AM
You have to make changes to the OL. A couple of decent games in pass protection does not erase what we have seen over the entire season. You have to look to upgrade the OL this offseason. I would actually make a run at Brown (OC for the Ravens). He is probably one of the best young centers in football (Ravens may try and franchise him). If that means letting McFadden and Washington go then so be it. I would also draft a guard on day one and put him in Kemo's spot. Kemo is way too inconsistent. Resign Starx (unless the organization feels Hills can do the job). I would also try and sign someone like Runyan for cheap money. He allows Colon to move inside to his natural Guard position.

You definitely don't want to invest in this OL long term. The talent is just not there. The teams with the best OL invest high draft choices or big money in their OL. The Steelers need to do the same. Ben is too important an investment. The Steelers have a rare commodity. They have a championship caliber QB. You must surround him with top talent.

Djfan
01-20-2009, 12:08 AM
i think we SHOULD keep them all. draft their replacements but keep what we have.

I agree, sort of. They all seem to gaff at times. If we get something better in FA or even the draft I don't mind letting some go.

But, I will agree that they have done MUCH better lately.

SteelCrazy
01-20-2009, 12:10 AM
What about Marvel? Starks? Starks probably wont come very cheap.

birtikidis
01-20-2009, 12:12 AM
I'd let marvel walk. but no way do i get into bidding wars or put a ton of trust in a couple of rooks on the o-line.

Mister Pittsburgh
01-20-2009, 12:28 AM
I would resign Essex and let him play LG. I would let Marvel go unless he would sign for a two year deal for half of what he makes now. Max Starks will not sign with the Steelers. I would try and sign Jordan Gross for around 9 or 10 a year and he plays LT. I would draft an OT if one was there I felt could replace Colon immediately at RT. If not, then I would shoot for the best OG I could draft and make them a backup OG and hopefully the OG stay healthy so they can learn for a year. We have Simmons coming back next year too.

LT - Gross (Essex)
LG - Essex/Stapleton (whoever doesn't start backs up at both OG, Stapleton at OG&OC)
C - Hartwig (Stapleton/Draftee)
RG - Simmons/Colon (Stapleton/draftee)
RT - Colon/ Hills/ Draftee

Wonder if Cappizi could develop into a starter?

Discipline of Steel
01-20-2009, 12:32 AM
To me, the first ones Id show the door are Marvel (old, damaged goods) and Simmons (sucked, damaged goods). The next wave might include Starks and Kemo, depending on their salary demands. Although Id cross my fingers for Kemo to return with a fair price because I believe we need a power running facet to our offense. If we are lucky, this wave of departures could finance a high profile free agent or high draft pick at OT.

SteelBucks
01-20-2009, 12:35 AM
I would resign Essex and let him play LG. I would let Marvel go unless he would sign for a two year deal for half of what he makes now. Max Starks will not sign with the Steelers. I would try and sign Jordan Gross for around 9 or 10 a year and he plays LT. I would draft an OT if one was there I felt could replace Colon immediately at RT. If not, then I would shoot for the best OG I could draft and make them a backup OG and hopefully the OG stay healthy so they can learn for a year. We have Simmons coming back next year too.

LT - Gross (Essex)
LG - Essex/Stapleton (whoever doesn't start backs up at both OG, Stapleton at OG&OC)
C - Hartwig (Stapleton/Draftee)
RG - Simmons/Colon (Stapleton/draftee)
RT - Colon/ Hills/ Draftee

Wonder if Cappizi could develop into a starter?

You can forget about Gross. There's talk that Carolina might break the bank and make him the highest paid lineman in the league.

SteelCrazy
01-20-2009, 02:12 AM
We wouldnt sign Gross if we could get him for 8 per. Love the thoughts of him being over there tho. Wonder how good Ben would be if he didnt have to worry about his blind side?

Chadman
01-20-2009, 02:37 AM
There is no way the Steelers OL will be 'fixed' to everyone's liking in a year. But the pieces can be put in place...

LT- Let Marvel walk. Can't hope that he can hold up again- 2 years in a row he's finished the season early & too expensive to take a chance on. Starks has done reasonably well at LT since stepping in. The Steelers will have to pay well to keep him, but Chadman gets an idea he'd like to stay (Off Topic- through the magic of Facebook, Chadman is in contact with Trai Essex, Darnell Stapleton & Willie Colon. One thing that becomes evident right away is that these guys, along with Max Starks, are good mates with eachother & with Ben R. Keeping them together might not be as hard as you would think...). Isn't Max Ben's 'best friend' on the team? Trai Essex is valuable because he can play OT & OG. Tony Hills needs a shot at LT before we can write him off. Also- On Jordan Gross, with Peppers saying he wants out, Gross will become the Panhthers number 1 priority to retain. Scratch him. And drafting a rookie LT at 32...you'll be looking at the 6th or 7th best prospect- there is better value elsewhere.

LG- Kemo was a promising player going into the season. He's getting less promising as the season goes on. He can't pass block. He just doesn't seem to know who to block. Chadman would let him walk. Move Simmons to LG for next season. His back-up will come later...

Center- Hartwig is solid. He should be the starter again next season. The Steelers can, however, still get a rookie to back him up & also play OG. Alex Mack (if still around at 32) could play OG right away until Hartwig moves on. Jonathon Luigs is a solid option in Round 2 to do the same.

RG- Darnell Stapleton is playing pretty well- but doesn't seem to have the strength needed in the running game. He's worth holding onto though because he's cheap & plays effectively. Chadman would move Willie Colon from RT to Rg. Watching Colon play, it's not a matter of his strength that causes him trouble blocking. He's solid once he gets his hands on you. It's his speed. He has the turning circle of the Titanic. If he was to move inside to RG, his lack of foot speed can be negated, and Chadman believes you get a solid player there. If you take away his speed, he's an effective blocker in both running & passing games.

RT- This is where the Steelers need an immediate upgrade. While drafting at #32 gets you the 6th or 7th best LT, it could get you the #1 RT. For Chadman, that man is Phil Loadholt. Chadman would draft him at #32 & plug him in at RT right away. Have Essex, Colon & Hills be his back-up if he struggles.

So then you have a line that looks like this-

LT- Max Starks
LG- Kendall Simmons
OC- Justin Hartwig
RG- Willie Colon
RT- Phil Loadholt

Essex, Stapleton, Luigs & Hills are the back-ups.

First thing you do schematically is dump ZONE BLOCKING & use the size of this OL to your advantage. These are some big boys. They are not agile enough to Zone Block.

By shoring up the right side of the OL in one year, you know that future work is to be done on the left. It's a process, but the players Chadman named have shown improvement this season.

SteelCrazy
01-20-2009, 02:44 AM
Watching Colon play, it's not a matter of his strength that causes him trouble blocking. He's solid once he gets his hands on you. It's his speed. He has the turning circle of the Titanic. If he was to move inside to RG, his lack of foot speed can be negated, and Chadman believes you get a solid player there.


You are absolutely correct there. That is why he is always false starting. He tries to get that extra time needed to block the rusher.

I'd be more than happy if we could do it like you posted.

Mister Pittsburgh
01-20-2009, 08:34 AM
I would resign Essex and let him play LG. I would let Marvel go unless he would sign for a two year deal for half of what he makes now. Max Starks will not sign with the Steelers. I would try and sign Jordan Gross for around 9 or 10 a year and he plays LT. I would draft an OT if one was there I felt could replace Colon immediately at RT. If not, then I would shoot for the best OG I could draft and make them a backup OG and hopefully the OG stay healthy so they can learn for a year. We have Simmons coming back next year too.

LT - Gross (Essex)
LG - Essex/Stapleton (whoever doesn't start backs up at both OG, Stapleton at OG&OC)
C - Hartwig (Stapleton/Draftee)
RG - Simmons/Colon (Stapleton/draftee)
RT - Colon/ Hills/ Draftee

Wonder if Cappizi could develop into a starter?

You can forget about Gross. There's talk that Carolina might break the bank and make him the highest paid lineman in the league.

I was seeing they would probably be able to sign Gross for 10 million a season, where if you look at it he would immediately be better than any option we have at LT, and the two we do have make 14 million plus. Essex would sign cheap so with Gross and Essex you would still probably be under or at 14 million dollars a year for a starter and backup.

frankthetank1
01-20-2009, 08:49 AM
i really really hope that simmons and colon are not on the team next season and if they are i hope its a back up role. especially colon, that guy is useless. i would like to keep max starks but not for a whole lot of money. kemo im kind of on the fence about. i guess he should stay but again not for a lot of money. you cant replace to many guys on the o-line in only one off season.

Oviedo
01-20-2009, 09:20 AM
We wouldnt sign Gross if we could get him for 8 per. Love the thoughts of him being over there tho. Wonder how good Ben would be if he didnt have to worry about his blind side?

I agree. Gross will become the highest paid OL in the NFL come this spring and we won't be paying that salary. The most likely scenario I see playing out is as follows:

Left Tackle: The FO will make a priority to resign Starks because they can sign him before anyone else can talk to him. I would support this because I think he has earned it. If that fails they will go after one of the other free agents like Khalif Barnes or Vernon Carey but will have to overpay to get either one of them. They will consider bring Marvel back for a vet minimum because he essentially will have no value in the market. If he comes back and can play healthy we would have hit the jackpot. Don't even think they consider putting a rookie here. It won't happen. Additionally they will resign Essex for a cap friendly contract or let him walk.

Left Guard: They will try resign Kemo but only at a very favorable cap contract. Kemo has been average all season and may still develop but the FO will not overpay for him given they have other options at Guard, e.g. Simmons, Stapleton and moving Colon inside. Guard is also easier to replace in the free agency (i.e cheaper) and in the draft.

Center: Hartwig will stay as the starter. He has been solid and is getting better. Look for a possible mid round back up to be drafted as an additional back to Stapleton. Whoever they draft will have the flexibility to play both C and OG.

Right Guard: Stapleton and Simmons battle out here. maybe a rookie enters the mix or Colon moves inside here if we resign Kemo.

Right Tackle: Most likely position for a change. Colon is overmatched against outside speed rusher s and when he attempts to adjust or get an advanatage he commits a false start or lines up set back to far to buy an extra second. I really believe that Tony Hills could be the solution here. If we go OT in Round 1 or Round 2 he could play here too.

Draft: We most likely will draft 2 OL with the first 4-5 picks. I would guess one OT and one C/G. More change than that doesn't make sense. If the season has shown us anything the OL is about consistency and continuity. You can't play a rotation on the OL like you do on the DL. That is why I expect we will try to keep as many pieces in polace as we have now.

While everyone else thinks new and different equals better hopefully the front office knows that isn't necessarily the case.

mshifko
01-20-2009, 10:27 AM
we're probably going to have to draft a potential RT in this draft...leave max at LT, keep hartwig, kemo, and hope that stapleton can develop...i would let colon have his shot to battle at RT with the high draft pick at RT...but we'll see...

they have been playing well lately and i tip my hat to that

Iron Shiek
01-20-2009, 10:29 AM
There is no way the Steelers OL will be 'fixed' to everyone's liking in a year. But the pieces can be put in place...

LT- Let Marvel walk. Can't hope that he can hold up again- 2 years in a row he's finished the season early & too expensive to take a chance on. Starks has done reasonably well at LT since stepping in. The Steelers will have to pay well to keep him, but Chadman gets an idea he'd like to stay (Off Topic- through the magic of Facebook, Chadman is in contact with Trai Essex, Darnell Stapleton & Willie Colon. One thing that becomes evident right away is that these guys, along with Max Starks, are good mates with eachother & with Ben R. Keeping them together might not be as hard as you would think...). Isn't Max Ben's 'best friend' on the team? Trai Essex is valuable because he can play OT & OG. Tony Hills needs a shot at LT before we can write him off. Also- On Jordan Gross, with Peppers saying he wants out, Gross will become the Panhthers number 1 priority to retain. Scratch him. And drafting a rookie LT at 32...you'll be looking at the 6th or 7th best prospect- there is better value elsewhere.

LG- Kemo was a promising player going into the season. He's getting less promising as the season goes on. He can't pass block. He just doesn't seem to know who to block. Chadman would let him walk. Move Simmons to LG for next season. His back-up will come later...

Center- Hartwig is solid. He should be the starter again next season. The Steelers can, however, still get a rookie to back him up & also play OG. Alex Mack (if still around at 32) could play OG right away until Hartwig moves on. Jonathon Luigs is a solid option in Round 2 to do the same.

RG- Darnell Stapleton is playing pretty well- but doesn't seem to have the strength needed in the running game. He's worth holding onto though because he's cheap & plays effectively. Chadman would move Willie Colon from RT to Rg. Watching Colon play, it's not a matter of his strength that causes him trouble blocking. He's solid once he gets his hands on you. It's his speed. He has the turning circle of the Titanic. If he was to move inside to RG, his lack of foot speed can be negated, and Chadman believes you get a solid player there. If you take away his speed, he's an effective blocker in both running & passing games.

RT- This is where the Steelers need an immediate upgrade. While drafting at #32 gets you the 6th or 7th best LT, it could get you the #1 RT. For Chadman, that man is Phil Loadholt. Chadman would draft him at #32 & plug him in at RT right away. Have Essex, Colon & Hills be his back-up if he struggles.

So then you have a line that looks like this-

LT- Max Starks
LG- Kendall Simmons
OC- Justin Hartwig
RG- Willie Colon
RT- Phil Loadholt

Essex, Stapleton, Luigs & Hills are the back-ups.

First thing you do schematically is dump ZONE BLOCKING & use the size of this OL to your advantage. These are some big boys. They are not agile enough to Zone Block.

By shoring up the right side of the OL in one year, you know that future work is to be done on the left. It's a process, but the players Chadman named have shown improvement this season.


Chadman, is that where Loadholt is rated? The guys on Sirius NFL Radio (Tim Ryan and Pat Kirwan) are reporting all week from Mobile, Alabama, sight of the Senior Bowl. They are watching all the practices and workouts. Of ALL the people on the radio, I trust these two to analyze a football player more than any other on the radio. With that said, they seem to think Loadholt is a guy that isn't quite developed and he'd be a 3rd or 4th round pick. From a different position, they had a lot of great things to say about G-C from Oregon...is it Unger? They said he seems to be ready for the NFL now (and he could jump into G and take over for Hartwig at moments notice). I just don't know where he is rated...would he last that long...

Oviedo
01-20-2009, 01:21 PM
There is no way the Steelers OL will be 'fixed' to everyone's liking in a year. But the pieces can be put in place...

LT- Let Marvel walk. Can't hope that he can hold up again- 2 years in a row he's finished the season early & too expensive to take a chance on. Starks has done reasonably well at LT since stepping in. The Steelers will have to pay well to keep him, but Chadman gets an idea he'd like to stay (Off Topic- through the magic of Facebook, Chadman is in contact with Trai Essex, Darnell Stapleton & Willie Colon. One thing that becomes evident right away is that these guys, along with Max Starks, are good mates with eachother & with Ben R. Keeping them together might not be as hard as you would think...). Isn't Max Ben's 'best friend' on the team? Trai Essex is valuable because he can play OT & OG. Tony Hills needs a shot at LT before we can write him off. Also- On Jordan Gross, with Peppers saying he wants out, Gross will become the Panhthers number 1 priority to retain. Scratch him. And drafting a rookie LT at 32...you'll be looking at the 6th or 7th best prospect- there is better value elsewhere.

LG- Kemo was a promising player going into the season. He's getting less promising as the season goes on. He can't pass block. He just doesn't seem to know who to block. Chadman would let him walk. Move Simmons to LG for next season. His back-up will come later...

Center- Hartwig is solid. He should be the starter again next season. The Steelers can, however, still get a rookie to back him up & also play OG. Alex Mack (if still around at 32) could play OG right away until Hartwig moves on. Jonathon Luigs is a solid option in Round 2 to do the same.

RG- Darnell Stapleton is playing pretty well- but doesn't seem to have the strength needed in the running game. He's worth holding onto though because he's cheap & plays effectively. Chadman would move Willie Colon from RT to Rg. Watching Colon play, it's not a matter of his strength that causes him trouble blocking. He's solid once he gets his hands on you. It's his speed. He has the turning circle of the Titanic. If he was to move inside to RG, his lack of foot speed can be negated, and Chadman believes you get a solid player there. If you take away his speed, he's an effective blocker in both running & passing games.

RT- This is where the Steelers need an immediate upgrade. While drafting at #32 gets you the 6th or 7th best LT, it could get you the #1 RT. For Chadman, that man is Phil Loadholt. Chadman would draft him at #32 & plug him in at RT right away. Have Essex, Colon & Hills be his back-up if he struggles.

So then you have a line that looks like this-

LT- Max Starks
LG- Kendall Simmons
OC- Justin Hartwig
RG- Willie Colon
RT- Phil Loadholt

Essex, Stapleton, Luigs & Hills are the back-ups.

First thing you do schematically is dump ZONE BLOCKING & use the size of this OL to your advantage. These are some big boys. They are not agile enough to Zone Block.

By shoring up the right side of the OL in one year, you know that future work is to be done on the left. It's a process, but the players Chadman named have shown improvement this season.


Chadman, is that where Loadholt is rated? The guys on Sirius NFL Radio (Tim Ryan and Pat Kirwan) are reporting all week from Mobile, Alabama, sight of the Senior Bowl. They are watching all the practices and workouts. Of ALL the people on the radio, I trust these two to analyze a football player more than any other on the radio. With that said, they seem to think Loadholt is a guy that isn't quite developed and he'd be a 3rd or 4th round pick. From a different position, they had a lot of great things to say about G-C from Oregon...is it Unger? They said he seems to be ready for the NFL now (and he could jump into G and take over for Hartwig at moments notice). I just don't know where he is rated...would he last that long...

I was watching the workouts. It appears there is a growing opinion that Loadholdt can't play LT and will be an RT only. He will get drafted in Round 2 at the latest. Unger did good but not first round. Alex Mack looks over rated. Andy Levitre looks like a guy who has positional flexibility but will have to move into Guard at the NFL level. The other player who really stood out was Kraig Urbik from Wisconsin. None of the guys I saw are Round 1 caliber and unlikely any of them can play from day 1.

SteelerOfDeVille
01-20-2009, 02:25 PM
There is no way the Steelers OL will be 'fixed' to everyone's liking in a year. But the pieces can be put in place...

LT- Let Marvel walk. Can't hope that he can hold up again- 2 years in a row he's finished the season early & too expensive to take a chance on. Starks has done reasonably well at LT since stepping in. The Steelers will have to pay well to keep him, but Chadman gets an idea he'd like to stay (Off Topic- through the magic of Facebook, Chadman is in contact with Trai Essex, Darnell Stapleton & Willie Colon. One thing that becomes evident right away is that these guys, along with Max Starks, are good mates with eachother & with Ben R. Keeping them together might not be as hard as you would think...). Isn't Max Ben's 'best friend' on the team? Trai Essex is valuable because he can play OT & OG. Tony Hills needs a shot at LT before we can write him off. Also- On Jordan Gross, with Peppers saying he wants out, Gross will become the Panhthers number 1 priority to retain. Scratch him. And drafting a rookie LT at 32...you'll be looking at the 6th or 7th best prospect- there is better value elsewhere.

LG- Kemo was a promising player going into the season. He's getting less promising as the season goes on. He can't pass block. He just doesn't seem to know who to block. Chadman would let him walk. Move Simmons to LG for next season. His back-up will come later...

Center- Hartwig is solid. He should be the starter again next season. The Steelers can, however, still get a rookie to back him up & also play OG. Alex Mack (if still around at 32) could play OG right away until Hartwig moves on. Jonathon Luigs is a solid option in Round 2 to do the same.

RG- Darnell Stapleton is playing pretty well- but doesn't seem to have the strength needed in the running game. He's worth holding onto though because he's cheap & plays effectively. Chadman would move Willie Colon from RT to Rg. Watching Colon play, it's not a matter of his strength that causes him trouble blocking. He's solid once he gets his hands on you. It's his speed. He has the turning circle of the Titanic. If he was to move inside to RG, his lack of foot speed can be negated, and Chadman believes you get a solid player there. If you take away his speed, he's an effective blocker in both running & passing games.

RT- This is where the Steelers need an immediate upgrade. While drafting at #32 gets you the 6th or 7th best LT, it could get you the #1 RT. For Chadman, that man is Phil Loadholt. Chadman would draft him at #32 & plug him in at RT right away. Have Essex, Colon & Hills be his back-up if he struggles.

So then you have a line that looks like this-

LT- Max Starks
LG- Kendall Simmons
OC- Justin Hartwig
RG- Willie Colon
RT- Phil Loadholt

Essex, Stapleton, Luigs & Hills are the back-ups.

First thing you do schematically is dump ZONE BLOCKING & use the size of this OL to your advantage. These are some big boys. They are not agile enough to Zone Block.

By shoring up the right side of the OL in one year, you know that future work is to be done on the left. It's a process, but the players Chadman named have shown improvement this season.
dude, i watched their bowl game (and one other game that i can't recall), scouting loadholt and i wasn't terribly impressed with him. i'll pass.