PDA

View Full Version : Opinions wanted...



Chadman
01-09-2009, 02:29 AM
Using "Walterfootball" as a guide, IF...

at the time the Steelers pick in this years draft the following OL players are off the board-
Andre Smith OT, Michael Oher OT, Eugene Monroe OT, Jason Smith OT, Eben Britton OT, Ciron Black OT & Duke Robinson OG

Do the Steelers take-
#1 Rated Center Alex Mack
#2 Rated Center BUT Also Possible OT Max Unger
#7 Rated OT William Beatty or
#8 Rated OT (specifically RT- possibly #1 RT) Phil Loadholt

with their 1st round pick?

Before you answer- keep in mind that by the Steelers 2nd round pick-

All the above players will be gone
#9 OT Russell Okung is gone
#3 Center Jonathon Luigs is gone
#10 OT Fenuki Tupou is gone (#2 specific RT)
#11 OT Sam Young is gone


And at the Steelers 2nd round pick you get a choice of OL-
#2 Rated OG Herman Johnson
#4 Rated Center Antione Caldwell
#12 Rated OT Alex Boone (RT)
#3 Rated OG Andy Levitre
#4 Rated Center Eric Wood
#13 Rated OT Troy Kropog
#14 Rated OT Augustus Parrish

Ok- so the question really is- how should the Steelers look at VALUE in the first 2 rounds of the Draft if they want OL both rounds?

For example- if the Steelers take Alex Mack in Round 1, they get a choice of OT's from the #12 rating & lower with their second pick. Is that 'Best Value'?

Or should they Take #1 Rated Center Alex Mack & #2 Rated OG Herman Johnson & suffer through the OT situation?

Or do you take the #7 or #8 Rated OT in Round 1 & either the #2 OG or #4 rated Center in Round 2?

Or should they not select OL in both Rounds & select a DB or DL somewhere early?

For Chadman, looking at the way Walterfootball sees the draft going (yes- very early), if the Steelers don't take OT in Round 1, then Chadman says don't select OT at all & solidify the interior with Mack in Round 1 & Johnson in 2.

But should they 'reach' for an OT in 1?

flippy
01-09-2009, 09:38 AM
I bet we go DL or WR in the first round.

Discipline of Steel
01-09-2009, 10:25 AM
Based on your OT projection, I predict we will sign a FA OT, draft DL in the first round, and solidify the OL interior in round 2.

pfelix73
01-09-2009, 10:33 AM
That's exactly what I'm thinking. IF a OT or OG with value isn't there, I'm looking a DL then or even a CB.

pfelix73
01-09-2009, 10:35 AM
And you all can forget about what's his face from OK. Robinson. He can go to Denver with Stoops and that offense OK plays.

RuthlessBurgher
01-09-2009, 11:19 AM
Imagine if we could sign top ranked free agent tackle Jordan Gross, then draft the best center in the draft in the first (Mack) and the #2 ranked guard in the second (Johnson)...talk about an extreme makeover to our team's biggest weakness...

http://www.szilagyi.us/images/Random/homer-drool.jpg

Oviedo
01-09-2009, 11:23 AM
Based on your OT projection, I predict we will sign a FA OT, draft DL in the first round, and solidify the OL interior in round 2.

I would like DL in Round 1 but if we can't resign Bmac I would not be surprised to see CB in Round 1.

I think we have to sign OT via free agency (and that may mean Starks) and the draft OT in Round 2. I think we can get a solid Guard in Round 3.

RuthlessBurgher
01-09-2009, 11:28 AM
Based on your OT projection, I predict we will sign a FA OT, draft DL in the first round, and solidify the OL interior in round 2.

I would like DL in Round 1 but if we can't resign Bmac I would not be surprised to see CB in Round 1.

I think we have to sign OT via free agency (and that may mean Starks) and the draft OT in Round 2. I think we can get a solid Guard in Round 3.

With guards, there seems to be one elite 1st round prospect (Robinson), one very good 2nd round prospect (Johnson), and then drop off. If we don't get one of the top 2 on day one, I would wait beyond round 3.

Iron Shiek
01-09-2009, 11:37 AM
Please don't get Boone...that's all I ask. Sean Mahan 2.0 (regardless of whether they play same position or not).

Chavezz
01-09-2009, 12:48 PM
Imagine if we could sign top ranked free agent tackle Jordan Gross, then draft the best center in the draft in the first (Mack) and the #2 ranked guard in the second (Johnson)...talk about an extreme makeover to our team's biggest weakness...

http://www.szilagyi.us/images/Random/homer-drool.jpg

This is where I'm hanging my hat. All of my Steeler dreams lie here. Just imagine if we do the following...

Let Marvel and his back go away. Saves 5-6 million.
Let Starks and his franchised tag go away. Saves 7 million.
Let Simmons and his constant injuries go away. Saves 4 million. (I think thats the #)

Resign Kemo I know hes a little slow in the head but he'd benefit from having a solid OT beside him. I think he's a natural RG anyway.

Stapleton is fine I think, he needs more reps and to build some strength but he'd be ok IMO.

Hartwig is fine as well, he may have another 2 years in him.

Sign Jordan Gross and overpay if needed. We already are paying our LT 13 million between Starks and Smith! Pay Gross 8 a year and we still save money!

This opens up the 1st Rd of the draft to take the BPA. DT, DE, CB are all needs as well that can't be ignored and if value presents itself you need to be in a position to be able to select that position.

Jom112
01-09-2009, 01:11 PM
Using "Walterfootball" as a guide, IF...

at the time the Steelers pick in this years draft the following OL players are off the board-
Andre Smith OT, Michael Oher OT, Eugene Monroe OT, Jason Smith OT, Eben Britton OT, Ciron Black OT & Duke Robinson OG

Do the Steelers take-
#1 Rated Center Alex Mack
#2 Rated Center BUT Also Possible OT Max Unger
#7 Rated OT William Beatty or
#8 Rated OT (specifically RT- possibly #1 RT) Phil Loadholt

with their 1st round pick?

Before you answer- keep in mind that by the Steelers 2nd round pick-

All the above players will be gone
#9 OT Russell Okung is gone
#3 Center Jonathon Luigs is gone
#10 OT Fenuki Tupou is gone (#2 specific RT)
#11 OT Sam Young is gone


And at the Steelers 2nd round pick you get a choice of OL-
#2 Rated OG Herman Johnson
#4 Rated Center Antione Caldwell
#12 Rated OT Alex Boone (RT)
#3 Rated OG Andy Levitre
#4 Rated Center Eric Wood
#13 Rated OT Troy Kropog
#14 Rated OT Augustus Parrish

Ok- so the question really is- how should the Steelers look at VALUE in the first 2 rounds of the Draft if they want OL both rounds?

For example- if the Steelers take Alex Mack in Round 1, they get a choice of OT's from the #12 rating & lower with their second pick. Is that 'Best Value'?

Or should they Take #1 Rated Center Alex Mack & #2 Rated OG Herman Johnson & suffer through the OT situation?

Or do you take the #7 or #8 Rated OT in Round 1 & either the #2 OG or #4 rated Center in Round 2?

Or should they not select OL in both Rounds & select a DB or DL somewhere early?

For Chadman, looking at the way Walterfootball sees the draft going (yes- very early), if the Steelers don't take OT in Round 1, then Chadman says don't select OT at all & solidify the interior with Mack in Round 1 & Johnson in 2.

But should they 'reach' for an OT in 1?

1st Round - Center, Alex Mack. If Alex Mack is around, I think you take him. He could be your Center for the next decade.

2nd Round - G, Herman Johnson. Johnson's stock I think will rise as the draft gets closer. I think you guys should go OT instead here but with the guys left Johnson is probably the best pick. Johnson probably won't last until the late 2nd though. If you want him, you will probably have to use a 1st round pick.

Also the worst pick for you guys in the 1st is Max Unger. I think he is horrible at blocking in the second level for the running game. I actually like Lugis more than him...

RuthlessBurgher
01-09-2009, 01:20 PM
Imagine if we could sign top ranked free agent tackle Jordan Gross, then draft the best center in the draft in the first (Mack) and the #2 ranked guard in the second (Johnson)...talk about an extreme makeover to our team's biggest weakness...

http://www.szilagyi.us/images/Random/homer-drool.jpg

This is where I'm hanging my hat. All of my Steeler dreams lie here. Just imagine if we do the following...

Let Marvel and his back go away. Saves 5-6 million.
Let Starks and his franchised tag go away. Saves 7 million.
Let Simmons and his constant injuries go away. Saves 4 million. (I think thats the #)

Resign Kemo I know hes a little slow in the head but he'd benefit from having a solid OT beside him. I think he's a natural RG anyway.

Stapleton is fine I think, he needs more reps and to build some strength but he'd be ok IMO.

Hartwig is fine as well, he may have another 2 years in him.

Sign Jordan Gross and overpay if needed. We already are paying our LT 13 million between Starks and Smith! Pay Gross 8 a year and we still save money!

This opens up the 1st Rd of the draft to take the BPA. DT, DE, CB are all needs as well that can't be ignored and if value presents itself you need to be in a position to be able to select that position.

I'd overpay for Gross...getting a Pro Bowl LT in his prime is worth it because they so rarely become available on the market. With the Max and Marvel off the books, it can be done. I'd consider going up to the neighborhood of 5 years for $50 million with $20 signing bonus. He may be able to get even more from a scrub team, but hopefully his former Carolina Panther teammate Justin Hartwig can convince him about what an awesome football town Pittsburgh is.

Oviedo
01-09-2009, 01:41 PM
Imagine if we could sign top ranked free agent tackle Jordan Gross, then draft the best center in the draft in the first (Mack) and the #2 ranked guard in the second (Johnson)...talk about an extreme makeover to our team's biggest weakness...

http://www.szilagyi.us/images/Random/homer-drool.jpg

This is where I'm hanging my hat. All of my Steeler dreams lie here. Just imagine if we do the following...

Let Marvel and his back go away. Saves 5-6 million.
Let Starks and his franchised tag go away. Saves 7 million.
Let Simmons and his constant injuries go away. Saves 4 million. (I think thats the #)

Resign Kemo I know hes a little slow in the head but he'd benefit from having a solid OT beside him. I think he's a natural RG anyway.

Stapleton is fine I think, he needs more reps and to build some strength but he'd be ok IMO.

Hartwig is fine as well, he may have another 2 years in him.

Sign Jordan Gross and overpay if needed. We already are paying our LT 13 million between Starks and Smith! Pay Gross 8 a year and we still save money!

This opens up the 1st Rd of the draft to take the BPA. DT, DE, CB are all needs as well that can't be ignored and if value presents itself you need to be in a position to be able to select that position.

I'd overpay for Gross...getting a Pro Bowl LT in his prime is worth it because they so rarely become available on the market. With the Max and Marvel off the books, it can be done. I'd consider going up to the neighborhood of 5 years for $50 million with $20 signing bonus. He may be able to get even more from a scrub team, but hopefully his former Carolina Panther teammate Justin Hartwig can convince him about what an awesome football town Pittsburgh is.

Your solution would be my first chice also but Gross may not want to leave a winning team. I really believe that resigning Starks is the most probable solution.

Iron Shiek
01-09-2009, 02:23 PM
We will have to overpay for Gross...he earned 1st team All Pro...

papillon
01-09-2009, 02:42 PM
Whatever it takes to get Jordan Gross signed would be well worth it my opinion. Can you really overpay for an All-pro left tackle? Especially, after what Ben's had to endure over the past two years.

Then, try to stockpile picks in the 2nd and 3rd rounds if someone will take our first round selection off of our hands.

Use those picks plus the ones we have coming to rebuild the DL, OL and maybe a CB.

If there are no trading partners for our 1st round pick, then use what we have to rebuild DL, OL and draft a late round CB. I really don't want Smith, Starks or simmons around next year, unless, it's for backup money. These guys and the current bunch playing have gotten Ben sacked 93 times in two years and our running game is almost non-existent right now.

The Steelers have a Superbowl caliber defense and special teams good enough to not lose the Superbowl, but, the offense is problematic. The current offensive line will close the Steelers window of opportunity by getting Ben killed. There needs to be an overhaul and I didn't support that earlier in the year, but, after the last few games and the ineptitude shown by the offense something has to change.

Pappy

Iron Shiek
01-09-2009, 02:57 PM
Gotta agree with you Pap. I am adopting the Chavezz plan...I liked pretty much everything he said in his earlier post...

ANPSTEEL
01-09-2009, 03:08 PM
Imagine if we could sign top ranked free agent tackle Jordan Gross, then draft the best center in the draft in the first (Mack) and the #2 ranked guard in the second (Johnson)...talk about an extreme makeover to our team's biggest weakness...

http://www.szilagyi.us/images/Random/homer-drool.jpg

I would love to see the Steelers go after Gross-

but even if they don't

I would not want them to reach for any position.

So- if the draft plays out the way Chadman has it figured...

The team IMO, would either:
- try to trade up using the compensatory pick they'll get for Faneca- in efforts to get a OT they are targeting
- Draft DL best available DE or DT
- Draft Unger to take over for Hartwig- if not in year 1- then year 2- Hartwig if kept, could move to OG.

Those are my opinions

:Blah :Blah :Blah

:tt1

RuthlessBurgher
01-09-2009, 03:23 PM
Imagine if we could sign top ranked free agent tackle Jordan Gross, then draft the best center in the draft in the first (Mack) and the #2 ranked guard in the second (Johnson)...talk about an extreme makeover to our team's biggest weakness...

http://www.szilagyi.us/images/Random/homer-drool.jpg

I would love to see the Steelers go after Gross-

but even if they don't

I would not want them to reach for any position.

So- if the draft plays out the way Chadman has it figured...

The team IMO, would either:
- try to trade up using the compensatory pick they'll get for Faneca- in efforts to get a OT they are targeting
- Draft DL best available DE or DT
- Draft Unger to take over for Hartwig- if not in year 1- then year 2- Hartwig if kept, could move to OG.

Those are my opinions

:Blah :Blah :Blah

:tt1

Comp picks are untradeable, but that does not mean that you can't trade your regular 3rd round pick. If you could use that third round pick as ammo to possibly trade up in the first to get one of the top tackles, I would do that (Andre Smith and Michael Oher will both go at the very top of the draft and therefore out of the realm of possibility, but if it could get you up near Eugene Monroe or Jason Smith territory, it would be worth the type of trade we made to get Troy or Santonio, since it is arguable that tackle is an even bigger need now than safety or receiver was then). If not, it would be awesome to get, say, Duke Robinson with our first round pick, then package our 2nd and 3rd to move up to the early second to nab Alex Mack. You could use that Faneca comp pick for DL depth or maybe a return specialist who would also provide depth as a CB or WR.

Iron Shiek
01-09-2009, 03:36 PM
You want an opinion? I'll give you an action item instead:

"Go eff yourself San Diego"

ANPSTEEL
01-09-2009, 03:45 PM
Imagine if we could sign top ranked free agent tackle Jordan Gross, then draft the best center in the draft in the first (Mack) and the #2 ranked guard in the second (Johnson)...talk about an extreme makeover to our team's biggest weakness...

http://www.szilagyi.us/images/Random/homer-drool.jpg

I would love to see the Steelers go after Gross-

but even if they don't

I would not want them to reach for any position.

So- if the draft plays out the way Chadman has it figured...

The team IMO, would either:
- try to trade up using the compensatory pick they'll get for Faneca- in efforts to get a OT they are targeting
- Draft DL best available DE or DT
- Draft Unger to take over for Hartwig- if not in year 1- then year 2- Hartwig if kept, could move to OG.

Those are my opinions

:Blah :Blah :Blah

:tt1

Comp picks are untradeable,

good point- i had forgotten about that.



but that does not mean that you can't trade your regular 3rd round pick. If you could use that third round pick as ammo to possibly trade up in the first to get one of the top tackles, I would do that (Andre Smith and Michael Oher will both go at the very top of the draft and therefore out of the realm of possibility, but if it could get you up near Eugene Monroe or Jason Smith territory, it would be worth the type of trade we made to get Troy or Santonio, since it is arguable that tackle is an even bigger need now than safety or receiver was then). If not, it would be awesome to get, say, Duke Robinson with our first round pick, then package our 2nd and 3rd to move up to the early second to nab Alex Mack. You could use that Faneca comp pick for DL depth or maybe a return specialist who would also provide depth as a CB or WR.

all good ideas...

It wouldn't surprise me at all to see the team trade to move up in RD 1 to grab an OT.

Having said that, if they are unable to sign mcfadden- i think they'll be taking a CB- no latter than 3rd rd, and possibly w/ the 2nd rounder.

Chadman
01-09-2009, 08:27 PM
So, just to clarify...we'd OVERPAY for a LT but we wouldn't OVER-DRAFT a LT?

What if the Steelers can't sign Gross?

RuthlessBurgher
01-09-2009, 08:38 PM
So, just to clarify...we'd OVERPAY for a LT but we wouldn't OVER-DRAFT a LT?

What if the Steelers can't sign Gross?

To clarify, I wouldn't REACH for an inferior player in the draft (I'd rather the #1 center than the #7 or #8 tackle in the first, and I'd rather the #2 guard in the second than the #12 tackle, strickly from a value perspective...we have enough average tackles as it is...why waste a premium pick on another average tackle when you can get a very good interior lineman instead).

However, if we cannot sign Gross, I would also be willing to overpay via trade to move up in the first like we did for Troy and Santonio to get a top 5 ranked tackle tackle like Eugene Monroe or Jason Smith (the elite tackle prospects like Michael Oher and Andre Smith will likely be taken too high to be a reasonable target for a trade).

Chavezz
01-09-2009, 08:49 PM
So, just to clarify...we'd OVERPAY for a LT but we wouldn't OVER-DRAFT a LT?

What if the Steelers can't sign Gross?

It's about talent, paying too much for a GREAT player is better than paying too much (draft picks) for a player of lesser quality.

Contingency if we can't get Gross?

Dunno, like I said earlier, all of my offseason dreams lie with Gross. He's the main cog in my off season wheel.

I guess we'd then go for another highend FA at another position. LT is Gross or nothing IMO. There really isn't anyone else I like at OT.

Haven't really looked at the guard position in free agency? Is there any quality out there?

I know Igor Olshansky has been tossed around as a pick up. Although I think he'd be a good fit and fits the mold of what we normally go after, do we sign him knowing that it would be in a rotational setting? Would he be that much better than Keisel? Just lots of questions there I can't answer.

Damn I'm sick of having a ****ty oline.

RuthlessBurgher
01-09-2009, 08:54 PM
So, just to clarify...we'd OVERPAY for a LT but we wouldn't OVER-DRAFT a LT?

What if the Steelers can't sign Gross?

It's about talent, paying too much for a GREAT player is better than paying too much (draft picks) for a player of lesser quality.

Contingency if we can't get Gross?

Dunno, like I said earlier, all of my offseason dreams lie with Gross. He's the main cog in my off season wheel.

I guess we'd then go for another highend FA at another position. LT is Gross or nothing IMO. There really isn't anyone else I like at OT.

Haven't really looked at the guard position in free agency? Is there any quality out there?

I know Igor Olshansky has been tossed around as a pick up. Although I think he'd be a good fit and fits the mold of what we normally go after, do we sign him knowing that it would be in a rotational setting? Would he be that much better than Keisel? Just lots of questions there I can't answer.

Damn I'm sick of having a ****ty oline.

If you can't sign Gross, and wanted to go for another high end FA at another position, you could throw big time cash at Nnamdi Asomugha (the best CB in the game right now IMO) to replace McFadden. Nnamdi, Ike, Troy, and Clark would be sick behind our front seven. Although o-line is a much higher priority, for sure.

bthorn86
01-10-2009, 12:30 AM
If the Steelers go DL first round Tyson Jackson from LSU would be a solid pick. He reminds me a lot of Ty Warren, he is 6'4 295 and would be a solid DE. If not him Ziggy Hood from Missouri in the 2nd would be another solid choice. I think the best fit though is B.J. Raji 6'1" 330, as an eventual replacement for Casey. He's a stud but will most likely be gone by the time Pittsburgh picks.

MaxAMillion
01-10-2009, 12:31 AM
I don't think the Steelers should spend a first round pick on a DL unless Raji is available. I think 3-4 DE can usually be found in later rounds. I would draft Mack in round 1 and then draft a second OL in round 2. I would make an exception for a corner in the early rounds but that is it.

The Steelers must do whatever it takes to fix the OL. It makes know sense to pay Ben 100 million and then watch him get hit over and over again. If you have to spend your first two picks on OL, then so be it.

Steel Life
01-10-2009, 12:43 AM
Simple...draft Tyson Jackson in the first & snag Jonathon Luigs in the second.

Chadman
01-10-2009, 09:33 AM
Chavezz & Ruthless- Chadman's just trying to get an idea what the board posters would do if (worst case scenario) the top tackles are gone & the Steelers can't get Gross in FA- because it seems most will agree that OT is a dire NEED for this team.

Are you saying that if the Steelers only get a shot at second tier talent at OT in the draft in Round 1 & they can't get a quality FA OT, then the Steelers should RE-SIGN some of the current OT's on the roster- Smith, Starks or Essex?

If the Steelers can't sign a FA OT to start, or draft one at 32..( :tt1 )..then what do they do at LT in 2009/2010?

Or- if the Steelers can solidify the INTERIOR of the OL- (Alex Mack & Herman Johnson)- does that minimise the need for a new LT & Smith/Starks/Essex/Colon/Hills will suffice?

Chadman
01-10-2009, 09:36 AM
Or, added to that, if the Steelers can't get a quality LT in Round 1, does drafting Phil Loadholt & plugging him in at RT do a similar job?

As a LT, Loadholt figues to be around the #10 OT on the board- but he's probably #1 at RT....

RuthlessBurgher
01-10-2009, 01:52 PM
These physical similarities scare me a bit:
Phil Loadholt is listed as 6'8" and 350.
Max Starks is listed as 6'8" and 345.

I see Loadholt as a 2nd round prospect (although I also considered Cherilus and Baker to be 2nd round prospects last year, but they were both taken before our pick at #23, so you just never know). I don't want to reach for a tackle at the end of round one like I think Houston did last year taking Duane Brown at #26.