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NorthCoast
01-04-2009, 02:37 PM
Based on the refereeing I saw in yesterday's games, it appears that the only way holding calls will get made is if there is blatant tackling of the rushers. There were a few holds called in the SD/Indy game but many, many more went uncalled.
I guess we just have to get used to the league wanting to protect QBs and also raise the offensive output of games. I am wondering whether we might be better off sending Harrison into coverage.

pittpete
01-04-2009, 03:56 PM
And they said during the game, that ref crew was responsible for the most penalties called all year.
Let em play, I say

steelnavy
01-04-2009, 04:28 PM
Based on the refereeing I saw in yesterday's games, it appears that the only way holding calls will get made is if there is blatant tackling of the rushers. There were a few holds called in the SD/Indy game but many, many more went uncalled.
I guess we just have to get used to the league wanting to protect QBs and also raise the offensive output of games. I am wondering whether we might be better off sending Harrison into coverage.

I can agree with that statement except for one obvious exception. Why do the Steelers consistently get called for holding week in and out while the opponent NEVER gets called? Are ours more egregious than the choke holds that Harrison gets?!?

Not only that, I would be willing to wager a large amount of money that the Steelers have had more touchdowns and big plays called back for holding than any other team in the NFL. Seems like that flag only comes out AFTER its obvious that the play is going to net some big yards. That San Diego game shouldn't have even been close.

SteelerNation1
01-04-2009, 04:37 PM
Doesn't matter...we didn't get a holding call all year really.

Chachi
01-04-2009, 06:41 PM
And they said during the game, that ref crew was responsible for the most penalties called all year.
Let em play, I say

I see this all the time, in every sport, and never understand it.

A foul is a foul is a foul.

A penality is a penality is a penality.

Doesn't matter if it's the 1st quarter, 4th quarter, playoffs or the Superbowl.

Call a fair game and let the chips fall where they may.

pittpete
01-04-2009, 06:45 PM
Yes, a penalty is a penalty.
On the other hand though there are blatant calls and ticky tacky.
If you call the ticky tackies then you must call everything for both sides.
If you don t call a hold all game and wait till the 4th quarter to make a call which is iffy is what that statement means IMO.

buckeyehoppy
01-04-2009, 07:10 PM
The Steelers are 12-4 to this point without getting the calls.

We don't need the referee's help...we just don't need their hurt!

Champions always find a way to win...no matter what the circumstances!

TallyStiller
01-04-2009, 09:52 PM
We've benefited from calls (Santonio in the end zone? offensive PI on Darrell Jackson) and been hurt by them (Pete Morelli tries to give Indy the game in the '05 divisionals, 14 - 1 penalty margin in the 11 - 10 classic, no holds all season). It all evens out in the end. All we can hope for is that they come out for us at the right time.

They sure did help San Diego move down the field with the flags in OT vs. Indy... maybe it's due to reverse itself this week. Often happens that way in a home playoff game.

BURGH86STEEL
01-04-2009, 10:40 PM
And they said during the game, that ref crew was responsible for the most penalties called all year.
Let em play, I say

I see this all the time, in every sport, and never understand it.

A foul is a foul is a foul.

A penality is a penality is a penality.

Doesn't matter if it's the 1st quarter, 4th quarter, playoffs or the Superbowl.

Call a fair game and let the chips fall where they may.

I agree. One thing I hate about the NBA is that the stars "get the calls". Harrison has been held all year. Most of the time it was not been called. Could the league see it as a problem if they call holding as much as he's been held? Maybe they give the offense players the benefit of the doubt? I am sure the refs see it on the games they review. It is really kind of funny but most teams are probably reluctant to have two players block Harrison because he is not the biggest guy.

stlrz d
01-04-2009, 10:43 PM
We've benefited from calls (Santonio in the end zone? offensive PI on Darrell Jackson) and been hurt by them (Pete Morelli tries to give Indy the game in the '05 divisionals, 14 - 1 penalty margin in the 11 - 10 classic, no holds all season). It all evens out in the end. All we can hope for is that they come out for us at the right time.

They sure did help San Diego move down the field with the flags in OT vs. Indy... maybe it's due to reverse itself this week. Often happens that way in a home playoff game.

All video evidence shows he was in.



As for Harrison and Woodley, I'm sure they're used to it because it's been 2 or 3 seasons now that the NFL has been lax with the flags for holding on the outside pass rushers. They may as well come out and say it is legal for OT's to do the "arm across the neck" block because I see it in every game, not just Steelers games.

TallyStiller
01-05-2009, 08:48 AM
We've benefited from calls (Santonio in the end zone? offensive PI on Darrell Jackson) and been hurt by them (Pete Morelli tries to give Indy the game in the '05 divisionals, 14 - 1 penalty margin in the 11 - 10 classic, no holds all season). It all evens out in the end. All we can hope for is that they come out for us at the right time.

They sure did help San Diego move down the field with the flags in OT vs. Indy... maybe it's due to reverse itself this week. Often happens that way in a home playoff game.

All video evidence shows he was in.



As for Harrison and Woodley, I'm sure they're used to it because it's been 2 or 3 seasons now that the NFL has been lax with the flags for holding on the outside pass rushers. They may as well come out and say it is legal for OT's to do the "arm across the neck" block because I see it in every game, not just Steelers games.

Just saying, we've been on both sides of the close ones, is all. Could find other examples if I were a little less lazy.

steelnavy
01-05-2009, 10:07 AM
We've benefited from calls (Santonio in the end zone? offensive PI on Darrell Jackson) and been hurt by them (Pete Morelli tries to give Indy the game in the '05 divisionals, 14 - 1 penalty margin in the 11 - 10 classic, no holds all season). It all evens out in the end. All we can hope for is that they come out for us at the right time.

They sure did help San Diego move down the field with the flags in OT vs. Indy... maybe it's due to reverse itself this week. Often happens that way in a home playoff game.

All video evidence shows he was in.



As for Harrison and Woodley, I'm sure they're used to it because it's been 2 or 3 seasons now that the NFL has been lax with the flags for holding on the outside pass rushers. They may as well come out and say it is legal for OT's to do the "arm across the neck" block because I see it in every game, not just Steelers games.

Just saying, we've been on both sides of the close ones, is all. Could find other examples if I were a little less lazy.

I would like to hear more of your examples, because I think you are watching games with rose colored "I really luv the refs" glasses on. They have been sticking the Steelers all season long and I saw maybe two calls for the Steelers this year that probably shouldn't have been. But on the other hand, I saw three dozen bad calls/non calls against the Steelers this year.

Just from the top of my head, I can come up with:
The 12 men on the field call when Cowher shoves a copy of the pic down the refs shirt
Overtime in Detroit for the heads/tails fiasco with Bettis
The HORRIBLE running into the kicker call against Tennessee in the playoffs that cost the Steelers the game
The HORRIBLE TD reversal call at the end of the SD game this year
The HORRIBLE non holding call on several Jags at the end of the playoff game last year that COST THE STEELERS ANOTHER game
The non call on Tennessee this year when one of their players pulled a towel out of his uniform to wave after a TD (not even mentioned by the announcers!)

Now I will list the egregious calls FOR the Steelers:
(crickets)

My point is, everything doesnt even out in the end. The Steelers just keep winning despite the refs.

Bolt Writer
01-05-2009, 10:39 AM
Um, guys?

Just saying two words that I think prove that you weren't the only ones hosed by Refs this year...

Ed Hochuli.

steelnavy
01-05-2009, 02:23 PM
Um, guys?

Just saying two words that I think prove that you weren't the only ones hosed by Refs this year...

Ed Hochuli.

Wasn't saying that we were the only team royally hosed by the refs this year. Was saying that we were hosed MUCH more than other teams. Steelers San Diego game is the perfect example. And how about 8 or 9 games in a row when the other team NEVER gets called for holding despite obvious neck wrangling take downs by the offensive linemen?

Ghost
01-05-2009, 03:03 PM
Just from the top of my head, I can come up with:
The 12 men on the field call when Cowher shoves a copy of the pic down the refs shirt
Overtime in Detroit for the heads/tails fiasco with Bettis
The HORRIBLE running into the kicker call against Tennessee in the playoffs that cost the Steelers the game
The HORRIBLE TD reversal call at the end of the SD game this year
The HORRIBLE non holding call on several Jags at the end of the playoff game last year that COST THE STEELERS ANOTHER game
The non call on Tennessee this year when one of their players pulled a towel out of his uniform to wave after a TD (not even mentioned by the announcers!)

I'd like to add the Troy interception against Indy in the playoffs that was reversed (and the league later apologized for as a mistake.

But playing devils's advocate - the refs weren't afraid to throw the flag against her Seahawks in the SB.

Chemsteel
01-05-2009, 03:07 PM
A side note....Woodley is looking very good and his calf is not giving him any problems. Look for a big game from LaMarr.

Jom112
01-05-2009, 03:10 PM
No offense, but some of you guys whine way too much about the officiating. EVERY team in the NFL has fans that think they are on the short end of the stick when it comes to getting calls.

For every non-call when Harrison or Woodley get held evens out a non-call when Ike, Townsend or Bmac have their hands on a receiver past 5 yards. It won't even out over the course of one season but over the course of several seasons it does even out.

I remember in 06 when Justin Smith sacked the Tampa Bay QB and got called for "roughing the passer" which lost us that game. That whole season, our fan base kept crying about how we always get shafted by the refs.

You guys watch the Steelers game in and game out so of course you notice every bad call. If you did that for any other team it would be the same way...

Iron Shiek
01-05-2009, 04:42 PM
No offense, but some of you guys whine way too much about the officiating. EVERY team in the NFL has fans that think they are on the short end of the stick when it comes to getting calls.

For every non-call when Harrison or Woodley get held evens out a non-call when Ike, Townsend or Bmac have their hands on a receiver past 5 yards. It won't even out over the course of one season but over the course of several seasons it does even out.

I remember in 06 when Justin Smith sacked the Tampa Bay QB and got called for "roughing the passer" which lost us that game. That whole season, our fan base kept crying about how we always get shafted by the refs.

You guys watch the Steelers game in and game out so of course you notice every bad call. If you did that for any other team it would be the same way...

Jom I watch as much football as possible on Sunday. Watch more than just Steelers games. I am the last to be harping about how the refs can sway games. Players need to play and deal with a ref's decision, good or bad, right or wrong. Whining doesn't change it. So I don't like using it as a crutch.

But that all goes out the window seeing the weekly :moon that the refs give Harrison (and at times Woodley). It is so blatant its not funny. And I purposely look for that kind of stuff in other games (I have the Sunday Ticket so I am glued to my tv) and nowhere is it more evident than in Steelers games. Its been a weird year and it started vs. the jags in the playoffs in my mind.

Jom112
01-05-2009, 04:57 PM
No offense, but some of you guys whine way too much about the officiating. EVERY team in the NFL has fans that think they are on the short end of the stick when it comes to getting calls.

For every non-call when Harrison or Woodley get held evens out a non-call when Ike, Townsend or Bmac have their hands on a receiver past 5 yards. It won't even out over the course of one season but over the course of several seasons it does even out.

I remember in 06 when Justin Smith sacked the Tampa Bay QB and got called for "roughing the passer" which lost us that game. That whole season, our fan base kept crying about how we always get shafted by the refs.

You guys watch the Steelers game in and game out so of course you notice every bad call. If you did that for any other team it would be the same way...

Jom I watch as much football as possible on Sunday. Watch more than just Steelers games. I am the last to be harping about how the refs can sway games. Players need to play and deal with a ref's decision, good or bad, right or wrong. Whining doesn't change it. So I don't like using it as a crutch.

But that all goes out the window seeing the weekly :moon that the refs give Harrison (and at times Woodley). It is so blatant its not funny. And I purposely look for that kind of stuff in other games (I have the Sunday Ticket so I am glued to my tv) and nowhere is it more evident than in Steelers games. Its been a weird year and it started vs. the jags in the playoffs in my mind.

It depends on who you watch. Watching average DE's you don't see them being held as much as Harrison is. But Osi when he was dominating was being held all the time, Jared Allen I see a lot being held as well.

I admit watching Steeler games this season O-linemen have their arms across Harrison's throat or bring him to the ground at times and still there is no call. It definitely blows but it's not just regulated to him. When you're a top pass rusher it happens. At this point Harrison probably is the most held DE/OLB in the league but it's cyclical. Last season it was probably Osi or Allen (IMHO), next season it will probably be someone else...

Iron Shiek
01-05-2009, 05:38 PM
No offense, but some of you guys whine way too much about the officiating. EVERY team in the NFL has fans that think they are on the short end of the stick when it comes to getting calls.

For every non-call when Harrison or Woodley get held evens out a non-call when Ike, Townsend or Bmac have their hands on a receiver past 5 yards. It won't even out over the course of one season but over the course of several seasons it does even out.

I remember in 06 when Justin Smith sacked the Tampa Bay QB and got called for "roughing the passer" which lost us that game. That whole season, our fan base kept crying about how we always get shafted by the refs.

You guys watch the Steelers game in and game out so of course you notice every bad call. If you did that for any other team it would be the same way...

Jom I watch as much football as possible on Sunday. Watch more than just Steelers games. I am the last to be harping about how the refs can sway games. Players need to play and deal with a ref's decision, good or bad, right or wrong. Whining doesn't change it. So I don't like using it as a crutch.

But that all goes out the window seeing the weekly :moon that the refs give Harrison (and at times Woodley). It is so blatant its not funny. And I purposely look for that kind of stuff in other games (I have the Sunday Ticket so I am glued to my tv) and nowhere is it more evident than in Steelers games. Its been a weird year and it started vs. the jags in the playoffs in my mind.

It depends on who you watch. Watching average DE's you don't see them being held as much as Harrison is. But Osi when he was dominating was being held all the time, Jared Allen I see a lot being held as well.

I admit watching Steeler games this season O-linemen have their arms across Harrison's throat or bring him to the ground at times and still there is no call. It definitely blows but it's not just regulated to him. When you're a top pass rusher it happens. At this point Harrison probably is the most held DE/OLB in the league but it's cyclical. Last season it was probably Osi or Allen (IMHO), next season it will probably be someone else...

Yep. I can agree with everything you are saying. Here's to hoping next year its woodley as he is having a crazy breakout year!

steelnavy
01-05-2009, 06:36 PM
No offense, but some of you guys whine way too much about the officiating. EVERY team in the NFL has fans that think they are on the short end of the stick when it comes to getting calls.

For every non-call when Harrison or Woodley get held evens out a non-call when Ike, Townsend or Bmac have their hands on a receiver past 5 yards. It won't even out over the course of one season but over the course of several seasons it does even out.

I remember in 06 when Justin Smith sacked the Tampa Bay QB and got called for "roughing the passer" which lost us that game. That whole season, our fan base kept crying about how we always get shafted by the refs.

You guys watch the Steelers game in and game out so of course you notice every bad call. If you did that for any other team it would be the same way...

Ok, so if you are right and some fans ARE JUST WHINERS, then how about listing what you think are the top 10 worst/horrible/most controversial calls in the NFL over the past ten years or so. If bad calls were evenly distributed, then you would expect the Steelers to receive no more than one spot on that list. See if you can keep the Steelers from showing up more than once, or twice, or three times!

I will give you a headstart:

The tuck rule - Walt Coleman
Blown call in the San Diego/Donks game this year - Ed Hochuli

Good luck!

100$handshake
01-05-2009, 06:47 PM
The fans of every team in the league think the refs are out to get their team. This stuff gets pretty boring after awhile.

steelnavy
01-05-2009, 10:05 PM
The fans of every team in the league think the refs are out to get their team. This stuff gets pretty boring after awhile.

Then I guess you wouldn't mind proving your theory by listing some of the most agregious AND WELL KNOWN horrible ref calls in the last ten years and NOT listing the Steelers more than one once. That will give you something to do so you're not bored.

RKSteel
01-06-2009, 10:43 AM
Based on the refereeing I saw in yesterday's games, it appears that the only way holding calls will get made is if there is blatant tackling of the rushers. There were a few holds called in the SD/Indy game but many, many more went uncalled.
I guess we just have to get used to the league wanting to protect QBs and also raise the offensive output of games. I am wondering whether we might be better off sending Harrison into coverage. Freeney may agree with you.

As one of the NFL’s best pass rushers of his generation, the Colts’ Dwight Freeney believes that he is held by opposing pass blockers “every single damn play.” Let that serve as a backdrop to the utter disgust the Pro Bowl defensive end displayed as we walked to Indy’s team bus outside Qualcomm on Saturday night over the trio of penalties called against the Colts’ defense that helped facilitate San Diego’s winning touchdown drive in overtime. The rundown: Second-and-4 from the San Diego 43 – Sproles is stopped for no gain, but Eric Foster is called for defensive holding. Third-and-8 from the Indy 40 – Rivers throws incomplete to Chris Chambers, but cornerback Tim Jennings, who helped break up the pass, is called for defensive holding. Next play, first-and-10 at the Colts’ 35 – Sproles is stopped for no gain, but Session, who made the tackle, is whistled for a 15-yard facemask penalty. In my opinion it could be argued that any of the three penalties was justified, and a case could be made that each was unwarranted. But to have all three of them called in that context was regrettable, and the fact that the Chargers were only penalized three times all game (and only once on offense, for an ineligible man downfield) makes it even worse. In Freeney’s opinion, the flurry of calls that helped end his season was flat-out unconscionable. “Those were the worst [expletive] calls I’ve seen in a long time,” he said. “To have a game of that magnitude taken out of your hands, it’s just disgusting. It’s not like they made one [expletive] bad call – it’s three calls, in overtime. On one the ball’s 50 feet over [Chambers’] head. And they have the nerve to call defensive holding? When they can’t even call one friggin’ offensive holding the whole game? What’s going on? They need to start investigating some other [expletive].”

http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/news;_ylt=A ... &type=lgns (http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/news;_ylt=AnZ2j7UQyWtlT_YzBbI5THlDubYF?slug=ms-morningrush010509&prov=yhoo&type=lgns)

Jom112
01-06-2009, 11:36 AM
No offense, but some of you guys whine way too much about the officiating. EVERY team in the NFL has fans that think they are on the short end of the stick when it comes to getting calls.

For every non-call when Harrison or Woodley get held evens out a non-call when Ike, Townsend or Bmac have their hands on a receiver past 5 yards. It won't even out over the course of one season but over the course of several seasons it does even out.

I remember in 06 when Justin Smith sacked the Tampa Bay QB and got called for "roughing the passer" which lost us that game. That whole season, our fan base kept crying about how we always get shafted by the refs.

You guys watch the Steelers game in and game out so of course you notice every bad call. If you did that for any other team it would be the same way...

Ok, so if you are right and some fans ARE JUST WHINERS, then how about listing what you think are the top 10 worst/horrible/most controversial calls in the NFL over the past ten years or so. If bad calls were evenly distributed, then you would expect the Steelers to receive no more than one spot on that list. See if you can keep the Steelers from showing up more than once, or twice, or three times!

I will give you a headstart:

The tuck rule - Walt Coleman
Blown call in the San Diego/Donks game this year - Ed Hochuli

Good luck!

You can argue about the order, but here are several without looking too hard:

1. Tuck Rule
2. Blown call in SD by Hochuli
3. PI on Darrell Jackson in the SB
4. 49ers/Giants 2003 playoff game where 49ers won 39-38. On the last play the 49ers defender tackled the receiver on a botched FG attempt. PI should have been called. Mike Pereira admitted that after the game. Would have setup an easy FG for the win for the Giants.
5. Bucs/Colts. Simeon Rice was called for "leaping" on another player on a missed FG attempt in OT. Allowing Colts to win on another FG attempt.
6. Steelers/Colts. The Polamalu INT in the playoffs that was called back.
7. Bears/Lions week 16, 2004. 19-13 Lions, Bernard Berrian catches a 43 yard TD pass. Ref rules incomplete, Bears challenge. BB clearly catches the ball, but after review the ref still rules incomplete.
8. Ravens/Titans 2006. Mike Anderson fumbles and Robarie Smith of the Titans recovers. Refs rule down by contact. Fisher challenges. Refs say it actually was a fumble but they couldn't determine who recovered so Titans are charged with a timeout and Ravens get the ball back. Although Smith clearly came out with the football.
9. GB/Vikings 2002. Packers win 26-22, NFL admitted at least 9 blown calls in the game. 5 huge ones against the Vikings. Vikings should have won that game.
10. 1999 NFC Championship game, Bucs/Rams. Bert Immanuel catches a pass to the 22 yard line with 47 seconds left in the game to continue a game winning drive. After review the refs say it was incomplete. Later is shows he clearly had it, NFL afterwards because of that play redefines what a "catch" is.

Honorable Mentions:

- 2004 AFC Championship game Patriots/Colts. Patriot DB's being all over Colts receivers but no PI calls against the Patriots.
- Steelers and Bears in two separate games calling Tails but Ref thought Heads was called.
- Roughing the passer on Justin Smith against Bucs which setup Bucs to win on a last second TD. Bengals miss the playoffs by 1 game that season.
- 1999 Playoff game where Jerry Rice fumbles against the Packers on a last minute drive, which was ruled not a fumble. Replay shows it clearly was. This was the one where TO caught the last minute game winning TD and then started crying.


NOW QUIT YOUR WHINING...

stlrz d
01-06-2009, 11:53 AM
#3 - Images show it was clearly a push off. There is no doubt about it. Go look at the photos.

As for officiating, I am not one to complain about them and I don't like it when other people do it. To clarify, I will grumble and complain about a bad call but I do not buy into the "refs were out to get us" mentality and I despise it when others do so. One of the reasons I hats Ravens fans so much is because so many of them constantly complain about the officials not giving them the calls or the NFL having an agenda against them or the media not giving them respect, etc. It's really, really annoying.

Jom112
01-06-2009, 12:07 PM
#3 - Images show it was clearly a push off. There is no doubt about it. Go look at the photos.

As for officiating, I am not one to complain about them and I don't like it when other people do it. To clarify, I will grumble and complain about a bad call but I do not buy into the "refs were out to get us" mentality and I despise it when others do so. One of the reasons I hats Ravens fans so much is because so many of them constantly complain about the officials not giving them the calls or the NFL having an agenda against them or the media not giving them respect, etc. It's really, really annoying.

About #3, we're going to have a difference of opinion and that's fine. Part of the criteria though for the list was "controversial" calls. You can't argue that it wasn't controversial.

Also I agree 100% with that last paragraph. I didn't say anything the first several times I saw you guys complaining about penalties, but after a while it just gets old. I'm not saying you guys don't have bad calls/no calls being made against you, I'm just saying every NFL fan feels the same way about their team...

stlrz d
01-06-2009, 12:15 PM
#3 - Images show it was clearly a push off. There is no doubt about it. Go look at the photos.

As for officiating, I am not one to complain about them and I don't like it when other people do it. To clarify, I will grumble and complain about a bad call but I do not buy into the "refs were out to get us" mentality and I despise it when others do so. One of the reasons I hats Ravens fans so much is because so many of them constantly complain about the officials not giving them the calls or the NFL having an agenda against them or the media not giving them respect, etc. It's really, really annoying.

About #3, we're going to have a difference of opinion and that's fine. Part of the criteria though for the list was "controversial" calls. You can't argue that it wasn't controversial.

Also I agree 100% with that last paragraph. I didn't say anything the first several times I saw you guys complaining about penalties, but after a while it just gets old. I'm not saying you guys don't have bad calls/no calls being made against you, I'm just saying every NFL fan feels the same way about their team...

It's not fine and it wasn't controversial. Maybe to fans who didn't want to believe what they saw it was controversial. But to those who can actually look at what took place there is no doubt.

Have a look for yourself. The pictures don't lie.

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=4208&start=0&st=0&sk=t&sd=a (http://planetsteelers.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=4208&start=0&st=0&sk=t&sd=a)

Jom112
01-06-2009, 12:27 PM
[quote="stlrz d":337zp9s5]#3 - Images show it was clearly a push off. There is no doubt about it. Go look at the photos.

As for officiating, I am not one to complain about them and I don't like it when other people do it. To clarify, I will grumble and complain about a bad call but I do not buy into the "refs were out to get us" mentality and I despise it when others do so. One of the reasons I hats Ravens fans so much is because so many of them constantly complain about the officials not giving them the calls or the NFL having an agenda against them or the media not giving them respect, etc. It's really, really annoying.

About #3, we're going to have a difference of opinion and that's fine. Part of the criteria though for the list was "controversial" calls. You can't argue that it wasn't controversial.

Also I agree 100% with that last paragraph. I didn't say anything the first several times I saw you guys complaining about penalties, but after a while it just gets old. I'm not saying you guys don't have bad calls/no calls being made against you, I'm just saying every NFL fan feels the same way about their team...

It's not fine and it wasn't controversial. Maybe to fans who didn't want to believe what they saw it was controversial. But to those who can actually look at what took place there is no doubt.

Have a look for yourself. The pictures don't lie.

http://planetsteelers.com/phpBB3/viewto ... &sk=t&sd=a (http://planetsteelers.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=4208&start=0&st=0&sk=t&sd=a)[/quote:337zp9s5]

I knew I should have just left that play out. Anyway as you can see from the picture, the steelers defender is also touching the Seahawks defender. If both people are touching the correct call is a no-call. But that is where the controversy comes in.

I'm not saying I'm right, I'm just saying it's debatable...

steelnavy
01-06-2009, 01:39 PM
No offense, but some of you guys whine way too much about the officiating. EVERY team in the NFL has fans that think they are on the short end of the stick when it comes to getting calls.

For every non-call when Harrison or Woodley get held evens out a non-call when Ike, Townsend or Bmac have their hands on a receiver past 5 yards. It won't even out over the course of one season but over the course of several seasons it does even out.

I remember in 06 when Justin Smith sacked the Tampa Bay QB and got called for "roughing the passer" which lost us that game. That whole season, our fan base kept crying about how we always get shafted by the refs.

You guys watch the Steelers game in and game out so of course you notice every bad call. If you did that for any other team it would be the same way...

Ok, so if you are right and some fans ARE JUST WHINERS, then how about listing what you think are the top 10 worst/horrible/most controversial calls in the NFL over the past ten years or so. If bad calls were evenly distributed, then you would expect the Steelers to receive no more than one spot on that list. See if you can keep the Steelers from showing up more than once, or twice, or three times!

I will give you a headstart:

The tuck rule - Walt Coleman
Blown call in the San Diego/Donks game this year - Ed Hochuli

Good luck!

You can argue about the order, but here are several without looking too hard:

1. Tuck Rule
2. Blown call in SD by Hochuli
3. PI on Darrell Jackson in the SB
4. 49ers/Giants 2003 playoff game where 49ers won 39-38. On the last play the 49ers defender tackled the receiver on a botched FG attempt. PI should have been called. Mike Pereira admitted that after the game. Would have setup an easy FG for the win for the Giants.
5. Bucs/Colts. Simeon Rice was called for "leaping" on another player on a missed FG attempt in OT. Allowing Colts to win on another FG attempt.
6. Steelers/Colts. The Polamalu INT in the playoffs that was called back.
7. Bears/Lions week 16, 2004. 19-13 Lions, Bernard Berrian catches a 43 yard TD pass. Ref rules incomplete, Bears challenge. BB clearly catches the ball, but after review the ref still rules incomplete.
8. Ravens/Titans 2006. Mike Anderson fumbles and Robarie Smith of the Titans recovers. Refs rule down by contact. Fisher challenges. Refs say it actually was a fumble but they couldn't determine who recovered so Titans are charged with a timeout and Ravens get the ball back. Although Smith clearly came out with the football.
9. GB/Vikings 2002. Packers win 26-22, NFL admitted at least 9 blown calls in the game. 5 huge ones against the Vikings. Vikings should have won that game.
10. 1999 NFC Championship game, Bucs/Rams. Bert Immanuel catches a pass to the 22 yard line with 47 seconds left in the game to continue a game winning drive. After review the refs say it was incomplete. Later is shows he clearly had it, NFL afterwards because of that play redefines what a "catch" is.

Honorable Mentions:

- 2004 AFC Championship game Patriots/Colts. Patriot DB's being all over Colts receivers but no PI calls against the Patriots.
- Steelers and Bears in two separate games calling Tails but Ref thought Heads was called.
- Roughing the passer on Justin Smith against Bucs which setup Bucs to win on a last second TD. Bengals miss the playoffs by 1 game that season.
- 1999 Playoff game where Jerry Rice fumbles against the Packers on a last minute drive, which was ruled not a fumble. Replay shows it clearly was. This was the one where TO caught the last minute game winning TD and then started crying.


NOW QUIT YOUR WHINING...

Nice effort! Now, are you telling me that some of these bad calls qualify as the most memorable (definition- average football fan on the street could actually remember them) horrible calls of all time? Please!

- OT Steelers Detroit Bettis/coin flip is up there with the tuck rule as one of the most cited controversial calls by announcers week in and out. They changed the way it is done because of that. THAT ONE IS IN THE TOP TEN
- The Steelers San Diego "steal a TD" fiasco this season - That bad call caused a huge uproar and screwed tons of people. That one would probably make it ahead of a couple from your top 10.
- Bill Cowher stuffing a pic in the refs shirt on the 12 men on the field call. The announcers bring that one up ALL THE TIME.

If nobody still talks about them week in and out, then they shouldn't qualify. At a minimum, you should have THREE Steelers games in your top ten.

And BTW, back to this season, are you telling me that when no opponent earns a holding call 8 or 9 games IN A ROW against the BEST DEFENSE IN THE NFL (while the Steelers get called for it every week), that something doesn't smell funny? Anomalies happen for one or two games here and there, but not for half a season straight! If you wish to label me a whiner and make it stick, please cite another comparable extended streak that happened to another team.

You can't...

Jom112
01-06-2009, 02:03 PM
Nice effort! Now, are you telling me that some of these bad calls qualify as the most memorable (definition- average football fan on the street could actually remember them) horrible calls of all time? Please!

- OT Steelers Detroit Bettis/coin flip is up there with the tuck rule as one of the most cited controversial calls by announcers week in and out. They changed the way it is done because of that. THAT ONE IS IN THE TOP TEN
- The Steelers San Diego "steal a TD" fiasco this season - That bad call caused a huge uproar and screwed tons of people. That one would probably make it ahead of a couple from your top 10.
- Bill Cowher stuffing a pic in the refs shirt on the 12 men on the field call. The announcers bring that one up ALL THE TIME.

If nobody still talks about them week in and out, then they shouldn't qualify. At a minimum, you should have THREE Steelers games in your top ten.

And BTW, back to this season, are you telling me that when no opponent earns a holding call 8 or 9 games IN A ROW against the BEST DEFENSE IN THE NFL (while the Steelers get called for it every week), that something doesn't smell funny? Anomalies happen for one or two games here and there, but not for half a season straight! If you wish to label me a whiner and make it stick, please cite another comparable extended streak that happened to another team.

You can't...

The Polamalu TD against the Chargers should be in the top ten? Even you have to admit that is just being a homer. The only reason it's even mentioned is because of the gambling aspects, nothing to do with the outcome of the game. The first down call you guys got against the Ravens had a bigger impact on the game. Which I don't see you crying about, probably because it helped the Steelers.

As for the holding, like I said I see Ike and BMac always having their hands on receivers after 5 yards but they don't get called that much. The refs let them play. You can't honestly sit there and say that they are not physical corners who are all over receivers? So if you want the holding call on Harrison and Woodley every game then are you going to start whining if Ike and BMac get called for PI every game?

steelnavy
01-06-2009, 08:48 PM
Nice effort! Now, are you telling me that some of these bad calls qualify as the most memorable (definition- average football fan on the street could actually remember them) horrible calls of all time? Please!

- OT Steelers Detroit Bettis/coin flip is up there with the tuck rule as one of the most cited controversial calls by announcers week in and out. They changed the way it is done because of that. THAT ONE IS IN THE TOP TEN
- The Steelers San Diego "steal a TD" fiasco this season - That bad call caused a huge uproar and screwed tons of people. That one would probably make it ahead of a couple from your top 10.
- Bill Cowher stuffing a pic in the refs shirt on the 12 men on the field call. The announcers bring that one up ALL THE TIME.

If nobody still talks about them week in and out, then they shouldn't qualify. At a minimum, you should have THREE Steelers games in your top ten.

And BTW, back to this season, are you telling me that when no opponent earns a holding call 8 or 9 games IN A ROW against the BEST DEFENSE IN THE NFL (while the Steelers get called for it every week), that something doesn't smell funny? Anomalies happen for one or two games here and there, but not for half a season straight! If you wish to label me a whiner and make it stick, please cite another comparable extended streak that happened to another team.

You can't...

The Polamalu TD against the Chargers should be in the top ten? Even you have to admit that is just being a homer. The only reason it's even mentioned is because of the gambling aspects, nothing to do with the outcome of the game. The first down call you guys got against the Ravens had a bigger impact on the game. Which I don't see you crying about, probably because it helped the Steelers.

As for the holding, like I said I see Ike and BMac always having their hands on receivers after 5 yards but they don't get called that much. The refs let them play. You can't honestly sit there and say that they are not physical corners who are all over receivers? So if you want the holding call on Harrison and Woodley every game then are you going to start whining if Ike and BMac get called for PI every game?

First of all, NOBODY is arguing about corners holding. If you are going to try and state that the Steeler corners hold more than other teams, thats a different topic and you need to bring some evidence to the table. You are the FIRST person to make that statement all season.

But back to my earlier question: Are you telling me that when no opponent earns a holding call 8 or 9 games IN A ROW against the BEST DEFENSE IN THE NFL (while the Steelers get called for it every week), that something doesn't smell funny?

Please provide a relevant response to THIS PARTICULAR SUBJECT without citing ONE game when you insinuate that our corners were allowed to hold receivers while the opponent's corners were not. HOW DO EXPLAIN THIS HUGE ANOMALIE that spans over half the season?


And I think Troy's overturned TD against San Diego should make the top 10 over a few of yours because even though it didnt change the outcome of the game, it was very controversial and MOST MEMORABLE by fans. Five years from now, how many fans will still remember when the refs screwed thousands of gamblers vs a couple of yours that few remember already?

steelnavy
01-08-2009, 11:09 AM
Nice effort! Now, are you telling me that some of these bad calls qualify as the most memorable (definition- average football fan on the street could actually remember them) horrible calls of all time? Please!

- OT Steelers Detroit Bettis/coin flip is up there with the tuck rule as one of the most cited controversial calls by announcers week in and out. They changed the way it is done because of that. THAT ONE IS IN THE TOP TEN
- The Steelers San Diego "steal a TD" fiasco this season - That bad call caused a huge uproar and screwed tons of people. That one would probably make it ahead of a couple from your top 10.
- Bill Cowher stuffing a pic in the refs shirt on the 12 men on the field call. The announcers bring that one up ALL THE TIME.

If nobody still talks about them week in and out, then they shouldn't qualify. At a minimum, you should have THREE Steelers games in your top ten.

And BTW, back to this season, are you telling me that when no opponent earns a holding call 8 or 9 games IN A ROW against the BEST DEFENSE IN THE NFL (while the Steelers get called for it every week), that something doesn't smell funny? Anomalies happen for one or two games here and there, but not for half a season straight! If you wish to label me a whiner and make it stick, please cite another comparable extended streak that happened to another team.

You can't...

The Polamalu TD against the Chargers should be in the top ten? Even you have to admit that is just being a homer. The only reason it's even mentioned is because of the gambling aspects, nothing to do with the outcome of the game. The first down call you guys got against the Ravens had a bigger impact on the game. Which I don't see you crying about, probably because it helped the Steelers.

As for the holding, like I said I see Ike and BMac always having their hands on receivers after 5 yards but they don't get called that much. The refs let them play. You can't honestly sit there and say that they are not physical corners who are all over receivers? So if you want the holding call on Harrison and Woodley every game then are you going to start whining if Ike and BMac get called for PI every game?

First of all, NOBODY is arguing about corners holding. If you are going to try and state that the Steeler corners hold more than other teams, thats a different topic and you need to bring some evidence to the table. You are the FIRST person to make that statement all season.

But back to my earlier question: Are you telling me that when no opponent earns a holding call 8 or 9 games IN A ROW against the BEST DEFENSE IN THE NFL (while the Steelers get called for it every week), that something doesn't smell funny?

Please provide a relevant response to THIS PARTICULAR SUBJECT without citing ONE game when you insinuate that our corners were allowed to hold receivers while the opponent's corners were not. HOW DO EXPLAIN THIS HUGE ANOMALIE that spans over half the season?


And I think Troy's overturned TD against San Diego should make the top 10 over a few of yours because even though it didnt change the outcome of the game, it was very controversial and MOST MEMORABLE by fans. Five years from now, how many fans will still remember when the refs screwed thousands of gamblers vs a couple of yours that few remember already?

Hmm. I guess the lack of response means that I have a valid point and might not be just whining...

Jom112
01-08-2009, 12:26 PM
Hmm. I guess the lack of response means that I have a valid point and might not be just whining...

No it means there is no point arguing with someone that only wants to hear what he wants to hear.

I'll try one last time. I'm not saying there are no unfair calls going against the Steelers. I'm saying it's cyclical and that it happens to all teams. Here is a good article from last season about penalties:

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/columns/s ... id=3102510 (http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/columns/story?columnist=sando_mike&id=3102510)

My favorite is this quote:



Seattle and San Diego own the least-penalized offensive lines since 2004, with 86 penalties apiece. The Steelers, Jets and Patriots aren't far behind, ranging from 90 to 92. Those teams claimed nine division titles over the past three seasons.


Weren't you complaining that your O-Line gets called for holding all the time, yet it's never called against you? According to the article you had one of the least penalized O-Line's in football last season and over the last 3 seasons.

Here's your quote:



Are you telling me that when no opponent earns a holding call 8 or 9 games IN A ROW against the BEST DEFENSE IN THE NFL (while the Steelers get called for it every week), that something doesn't smell funny?


You notice Steelers anywhere on the wrong end in that article of ACTUAL facts? Yeah a few calls might stand out to you, but over the course of a season you guys don't have it that bad. Now quit your whining...

steelnavy
01-08-2009, 10:37 PM
Hmm. I guess the lack of response means that I have a valid point and might not be just whining...

No it means there is no point arguing with someone that only wants to hear what he wants to hear.

I'll try one last time. I'm not saying there are no unfair calls going against the Steelers. I'm saying it's cyclical and that it happens to all teams. Here is a good article from last season about penalties:

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/columns/s ... id=3102510 (http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/columns/story?columnist=sando_mike&id=3102510)

My favorite is this quote:



Seattle and San Diego own the least-penalized offensive lines since 2004, with 86 penalties apiece. The Steelers, Jets and Patriots aren't far behind, ranging from 90 to 92. Those teams claimed nine division titles over the past three seasons.


Weren't you complaining that your O-Line gets called for holding all the time, yet it's never called against you? According to the article you had one of the least penalized O-Line's in football last season and over the last 3 seasons.

Here's your quote:



Are you telling me that when no opponent earns a holding call 8 or 9 games IN A ROW against the BEST DEFENSE IN THE NFL (while the Steelers get called for it every week), that something doesn't smell funny?


You notice Steelers anywhere on the wrong end in that article of ACTUAL facts? Yeah a few calls might stand out to you, but over the course of a season you guys don't have it that bad. Now quit your whining...


I'll try one last time. I'm not saying there are no unfair calls going against the Steelers. I'm saying it's cyclical and that it happens to all teams. Here is a good article from last season about penalties:

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/columns/s ... id=3102510 (http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/columns/story?columnist=sando_mike&id=3102510)


What does that article have to do with this debate?!? Other than the fact that the subject is about penalties?


Weren't you complaining that your O-Line gets called for holding all the time, yet it's never called against you? According to the article you had one of the least penalized O-Line's in football last season and over the last 3 seasons.

Again, your response does not answer the point I am trying to make. Who cares if they were one of the least penalized offenses for THE LAST THREE YEARS?!? DID THEY GO 9 GAMES STRAIGHT WITHOUT A HOLDING PENALTY WHILE THE OTHER TEAMS GOT CALLED WEEK IN AND OUT?!? When discussing the Steelers O line, it wasnt necessarily about the amount of holding calls against the Steelers, but the fact that the other team wasnt GETTING CALLED FOR ANY HOLDING OVER AN EXTENDED PERIOD OF THE SEASON, EVEN THOUGH THEIR HOLDING WAS BEYOND BLATANT. Some people are chalking it up to the league operating under looser rules to increase offensive output. If that was the case, then BOTH teams should have had less holding calls, NOT JUST THE OPPONENT FOR 9 weeks straight! That is the point I am trying to make. I UNDERSTAND THAT THINGS OCCUR CYCLICALLY. But plot all games and penalties THIS SEASON on a graph and you would most likely find an anomalie so large that it is statistically impossible for it to have happened RANDOMLY.

Seriously, try to concentrate on the SPECIFIC topic which I WILL REPEAT FOR YOU ONE MORE TIME.

9 games straight
Steelers get called for holding EVERY TIME
Opponent gets called for holding NONE OF THE TIME.
SERIOUS STATISTICAL IMPROBABILITY

And BTW, bet Harrison has a sack-a-palooza this weekend now that he won DPOY and everyone will be paying attention to him. Now the refs will have to call all the blatant holds they have been ignoring all season.

Prediction: San Diego gets called for holding at least three times this weekend, which probably hasn't happened to a Steeler's opponent yet this year.

Jom112
01-09-2009, 12:10 PM
9 games straight
Steelers get called for holding EVERY TIME
Opponent gets called for holding NONE OF THE TIME.
SERIOUS STATISTICAL IMPROBABILITY



1. It wasn't 9 games, it was 6 games.

2. Penalties were down this NFL season, league wide:

http://www.knowyourdallascowboys.com/20 ... in-dallas/ (http://www.knowyourdallascowboys.com/2008/12/27/penalties-are-down-in-the-nfl-but-not-in-dallas/)

(Not the best source but it's penalties we are talking about)

3. Let's review your whole season:

Week 1: Pit vs. Hou

1. (6:55) 8-M.Schaub pass short left INTERCEPTED by 43-T.Polamalu at HOU 32. 43-T.Polamalu to HOU 32 for no gain (80-A.Johnson). Penalty on HOU-69-C.Pitts, Offensive Holding, declined.

Week 2: Pit vs. Cleveland

No holding

Week 3: Pit vs. Philly

2. (11:11) 5-D.McNabb pass incomplete short left to 29-T.Hunt. PENALTY on PHI-72-T.Thomas, Offensive Holding, 12 yards, enforced at PIT 35 - No Play.

3. (11:38) (Shotgun) 5-D.McNabb pass short left to 25-L.Booker to PHI 38 for 1 yard (92-J.Harrison). PENALTY on PHI-79-T.Herremans, Offensive Holding, 10 yards, enforced at PHI 38.

(There was a special teams holding call on Philly as well but I left that out since it doesn't match your narrow criteria)

Week 4: Pit vs. Balt

4. (4:27) 5-J.Flacco pass short left to 33-L.McClain to PIT 42 for 7 yards (51-J.Farrior). PENALTY on BAL-86-T.Heap, Offensive Holding, 10 yards, enforced at PIT 49 - No Play.

(Another game with ST holding but won't count it)

Week 5: Pit vs. Jags

5. (11:54) (Shotgun) 9-D.Garrard pass short left to 89-M.Lewis to PIT 27 for 9 yards (92-J.Harrison; 24-I.Taylor). PENALTY on JAC-79-T.Pashos, Offensive Holding, 10 yards, enforced at PIT 36 - No Play.

6. (:13) 28-F.Taylor up the middle to PIT 34 for -1 yards (96-O.Roye). PENALTY on JAC-69-K.Barnes, Offensive Holding, 10 yards, enforced at PIT 33 - No Play.

(Another game with ST holding but won't count it)

Week 6: Bye Week

Week 7: Pit vs. Bengals

7. (2:24) 11-R.Fitzpatrick scrambles left end to CIN 39 for 7 yards (99-B.Keisel). PENALTY on CIN-86-D.Coats, Offensive Holding, 10 yards, enforced at CIN 32 - No Play.

Also this game was 38-10 and you guys only had 3 penalties for 15 yards. I'm thinking the refs just let the players play because it was a blowout but you still got a holding call.

Week 8: Pit vs. Giants

8. (11:23) (Shotgun) 34-D.Ward right guard to NYG 32 for 15 yards (25-R.Clark). PENALTY on NYG-89-K.Boss, Offensive Holding, 10 yards, enforced at NYG 22.

(Another game with ST holding but won't count it)

Week 9: Pit vs. Skins

9. (11:53) (Shotgun) 17-J.Campbell sacked at WAS 18 for -11 yards (92-J.Harrison). Penalty on WAS-60-C.Samuels, Offensive Holding, declined.

10. (6:51) 26-C.Portis right end to WAS 36 for 1 yard (99-B.Keisel, 56-L.Woodley). PENALTY on WAS-61-C.Rabach, Offensive Holding, 10 yards, enforced at WAS 35 - No Play.

11. (3:51) 17-J.Campbell pass short left intended for 26-C.Portis INTERCEPTED by 26-D.Townsend [76-C.Hoke] at PIT 21. 26-D.Townsend to PIT 21 for no gain (26-C.Portis). FUMBLES (26-C.Portis), and recovers at PIT 23. 26-D.Townsend to PIT 23 for no gain (61-C.Rabach). Penalty on WAS-60-C.Samuels, Offensive Holding,declined. Washington challenged the pass completion ruling, and the play was Upheld. (Timeout #1 at 03:41.)

12. (11:17) 17-J.Campbell pass incomplete deep left to 11-D.Thomas. PENALTY on WAS-60-C.Samuels, Offensive Holding, 10 yards, enforced at PIT 38 - No Play.

Week 10: Pit vs. Indy

Only one special teams hold.

You didn't get any holding calls against Indy because they are one of the least penalized teams in the NFL when it comes to holding.

Week 11: Pit vs. SD

No holds, but again you're going up against one of the least penalized O-Lines in the last 4 years.

Week 12: Pit vs. Bengals

No holding, but you guys dominated the Time of possession in this game. All of our drives were basically 3 and outs.

We had 12 total drives, 7 of them were only 3 plays. 1 was 4 plays and another was 5 plays. How can we be called for holding if we don't have the ball?

Week 13: Pit vs. NE

2 special teams holding calls but that was it.

No holds, but you went up against a team on a HISTORICAL rate of the least amount of penalites in one season. Refs didn't call anything on NE all season.

Week 14: Pit vs. Dallas

No holds, but did you check out the box score on Penalites? You guys only had 2 penalites called for 10 yards. Refs weren't calling penalites on either team in this game.

Week 15: Pit vs. Balt

No holds, but this is the infamous Santonio Holmes TD game. The TD call was fine but that first down call you guys had eariler in the game was complete BS. I don't think you can complain the refs were against you in this game.

Week 16: Pit vs. Tenn.

13. (10:52) 28-C.Johnson right guard to 50 for 7 yards (43-T.Polamalu, 20-B.McFadden). PENALTY on TEN-80-B.Scaife, Offensive Holding, 10 yards, enforced at TEN 43 - No Play.

2 special teams holding penalites against Tenn as well.

Week 17: Pit vs. Cleveland

14. (3:22) #79 Young reports as eligible receiver. 35-J.Harrison right end pushed ob at CLE 25 for 2 yards (22-W.Gay). PENALTY on CLE-79-S.Young, Offensive Holding, 10 yards, enforced at CLE 23 - No Play.

15. (14:20) (Shotgun) 16-J.Cribbs left end to CLE 26 for 3 yards. Direct snap to #16 Cribbs. PENALTY on CLE-79-S.Young, Offensive Holding, 10 yards, enforced at CLE 23 - No Play.

I count 15 holding penalites in 16 games. That is what you consider a "SERIOUS STATISTICAL IMPROBABILITY"? The Pittsburgh Gazzette has to sell papers so they write some crap, you're just whining. Get over it.

Three of the teams as I stated earlier are three teams that are the least called for holding Indy, SD and NE.

http://views.washingtonpost.com/theleag ... teams.html (http://views.washingtonpost.com/theleague/smarterstats/2008/12/penalties-for-potential-playoff-teams.html)



Offensive Holding (Fewest)
PHI - 12
SD - 10
ARI - 10
IND - 9
NE - 9

Receiver Sam Aiken has three of New England's holds, and they're all on special teams. New England's offensive line has been called for a total of four holds all year, an incredible number.


NOW STOP WHINING...

steelnavy
01-10-2009, 10:59 AM
9 games straight
Steelers get called for holding EVERY TIME
Opponent gets called for holding NONE OF THE TIME.
SERIOUS STATISTICAL IMPROBABILITY



1. It wasn't 9 games, it was 6 games.

2. Penalties were down this NFL season, league wide:

http://www.knowyourdallascowboys.com/20 ... in-dallas/ (http://www.knowyourdallascowboys.com/2008/12/27/penalties-are-down-in-the-nfl-but-not-in-dallas/)

(Not the best source but it's penalties we are talking about)

3. Let's review your whole season:

Week 1: Pit vs. Hou

1. (6:55) 8-M.Schaub pass short left INTERCEPTED by 43-T.Polamalu at HOU 32. 43-T.Polamalu to HOU 32 for no gain (80-A.Johnson). Penalty on HOU-69-C.Pitts, Offensive Holding, declined.

Week 2: Pit vs. Cleveland

No holding

Week 3: Pit vs. Philly

2. (11:11) 5-D.McNabb pass incomplete short left to 29-T.Hunt. PENALTY on PHI-72-T.Thomas, Offensive Holding, 12 yards, enforced at PIT 35 - No Play.

3. (11:38) (Shotgun) 5-D.McNabb pass short left to 25-L.Booker to PHI 38 for 1 yard (92-J.Harrison). PENALTY on PHI-79-T.Herremans, Offensive Holding, 10 yards, enforced at PHI 38.

(There was a special teams holding call on Philly as well but I left that out since it doesn't match your narrow criteria)

Week 4: Pit vs. Balt

4. (4:27) 5-J.Flacco pass short left to 33-L.McClain to PIT 42 for 7 yards (51-J.Farrior). PENALTY on BAL-86-T.Heap, Offensive Holding, 10 yards, enforced at PIT 49 - No Play.

(Another game with ST holding but won't count it)

Week 5: Pit vs. Jags

5. (11:54) (Shotgun) 9-D.Garrard pass short left to 89-M.Lewis to PIT 27 for 9 yards (92-J.Harrison; 24-I.Taylor). PENALTY on JAC-79-T.Pashos, Offensive Holding, 10 yards, enforced at PIT 36 - No Play.

6. (:13) 28-F.Taylor up the middle to PIT 34 for -1 yards (96-O.Roye). PENALTY on JAC-69-K.Barnes, Offensive Holding, 10 yards, enforced at PIT 33 - No Play.

(Another game with ST holding but won't count it)

Week 6: Bye Week

Week 7: Pit vs. Bengals

7. (2:24) 11-R.Fitzpatrick scrambles left end to CIN 39 for 7 yards (99-B.Keisel). PENALTY on CIN-86-D.Coats, Offensive Holding, 10 yards, enforced at CIN 32 - No Play.

Also this game was 38-10 and you guys only had 3 penalties for 15 yards. I'm thinking the refs just let the players play because it was a blowout but you still got a holding call.

Week 8: Pit vs. Giants

8. (11:23) (Shotgun) 34-D.Ward right guard to NYG 32 for 15 yards (25-R.Clark). PENALTY on NYG-89-K.Boss, Offensive Holding, 10 yards, enforced at NYG 22.

(Another game with ST holding but won't count it)

Week 9: Pit vs. Skins

9. (11:53) (Shotgun) 17-J.Campbell sacked at WAS 18 for -11 yards (92-J.Harrison). Penalty on WAS-60-C.Samuels, Offensive Holding, declined.

10. (6:51) 26-C.Portis right end to WAS 36 for 1 yard (99-B.Keisel, 56-L.Woodley). PENALTY on WAS-61-C.Rabach, Offensive Holding, 10 yards, enforced at WAS 35 - No Play.

11. (3:51) 17-J.Campbell pass short left intended for 26-C.Portis INTERCEPTED by 26-D.Townsend [76-C.Hoke] at PIT 21. 26-D.Townsend to PIT 21 for no gain (26-C.Portis). FUMBLES (26-C.Portis), and recovers at PIT 23. 26-D.Townsend to PIT 23 for no gain (61-C.Rabach). Penalty on WAS-60-C.Samuels, Offensive Holding,declined. Washington challenged the pass completion ruling, and the play was Upheld. (Timeout #1 at 03:41.)

12. (11:17) 17-J.Campbell pass incomplete deep left to 11-D.Thomas. PENALTY on WAS-60-C.Samuels, Offensive Holding, 10 yards, enforced at PIT 38 - No Play.

Week 10: Pit vs. Indy

Only one special teams hold.

You didn't get any holding calls against Indy because they are one of the least penalized teams in the NFL when it comes to holding.

Week 11: Pit vs. SD

No holds, but again you're going up against one of the least penalized O-Lines in the last 4 years.

Week 12: Pit vs. Bengals

No holding, but you guys dominated the Time of possession in this game. All of our drives were basically 3 and outs.

We had 12 total drives, 7 of them were only 3 plays. 1 was 4 plays and another was 5 plays. How can we be called for holding if we don't have the ball?

Week 13: Pit vs. NE

2 special teams holding calls but that was it.

No holds, but you went up against a team on a HISTORICAL rate of the least amount of penalites in one season. Refs didn't call anything on NE all season.

Week 14: Pit vs. Dallas

No holds, but did you check out the box score on Penalites? You guys only had 2 penalites called for 10 yards. Refs weren't calling penalites on either team in this game.

Week 15: Pit vs. Balt

No holds, but this is the infamous Santonio Holmes TD game. The TD call was fine but that first down call you guys had eariler in the game was complete BS. I don't think you can complain the refs were against you in this game.

Week 16: Pit vs. Tenn.

13. (10:52) 28-C.Johnson right guard to 50 for 7 yards (43-T.Polamalu, 20-B.McFadden). PENALTY on TEN-80-B.Scaife, Offensive Holding, 10 yards, enforced at TEN 43 - No Play.

2 special teams holding penalites against Tenn as well.

Week 17: Pit vs. Cleveland

14. (3:22) #79 Young reports as eligible receiver. 35-J.Harrison right end pushed ob at CLE 25 for 2 yards (22-W.Gay). PENALTY on CLE-79-S.Young, Offensive Holding, 10 yards, enforced at CLE 23 - No Play.

15. (14:20) (Shotgun) 16-J.Cribbs left end to CLE 26 for 3 yards. Direct snap to #16 Cribbs. PENALTY on CLE-79-S.Young, Offensive Holding, 10 yards, enforced at CLE 23 - No Play.

I count 15 holding penalites in 16 games. That is what you consider a "SERIOUS STATISTICAL IMPROBABILITY"? The Pittsburgh Gazzette has to sell papers so they write some crap, you're just whining. Get over it.

Three of the teams as I stated earlier are three teams that are the least called for holding Indy, SD and NE.

http://views.washingtonpost.com/theleag ... teams.html (http://views.washingtonpost.com/theleague/smarterstats/2008/12/penalties-for-potential-playoff-teams.html)



Offensive Holding (Fewest)
PHI - 12
SD - 10
ARI - 10
IND - 9
NE - 9


Receiver Sam Aiken has three of New England's holds, and they're all on special teams. New England's offensive line has been called for a total of four holds all year, an incredible number.


NOW STOP WHINING...


Finally, a worthy response!


1. It wasn't 9 games, it was 6 games.


Very well, glad you could find the statistics for holding this season. I posted on here a couple of months ago asking if anyone knew where to find them (after a few hours of looking myself) and got crickets. The 9 games was based solely on my flawed memory.


Offensive Holding (Fewest)
PHI - 12
SD - 10
ARI - 10
IND - 9
NE - 9


The only low penalty teams relevant to this discussion are SD, IND and NE as the premise of the argument is about a SIX (per your correction) week string of holding calls for and against the Steelers (and while 9 games sounds like a slam dunk, 6 games is still nothing to sneeze at). And not just about more versus less, but more versus NONE. Of those three teams, it could be argued that their holding penalty numbers are so low because the refs failed to call BLATANT holding calls during those games.


Other than the six game streak, the holding penalties fall out in a random manner throughout the season. While the Steelers did not go through any abnormal streaks of CAUSING holding penalties, they definitely saw an abnormal streak of NO HOLDING penalties against them. Understanding that refs cannot catch it every time, their lack of ability to "see" the most blatant, neck wrenching, back riding, double teaming choke hold take downs during this streak is a little beyond believable. Missing those calls every once in awhile (sprinkled througout the season) is normal and expected. Missing those calls for six weeks straight when anyone with functioning eyes can see it smells funny.

stlrz d
01-10-2009, 11:09 AM
steelnavy - on behalf of Steelers Nation I would like to kindly request that you let it go and stop complaining about the officiating. Leave that to Rats fans please.

Thank you. :)